Sony a7IV - Is 4k60 APSC Crop Really THAT Bad?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I discuss the benefit of having 4k60 crop super 35 mode for the Sony a7IV
CORRECTION on the 22mp crop... it is only 15mp. i cant do math.
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Correction, a7IV has around 15 megapixel in apsc which is like 4.6k not 5.9k. But it is downsampled and it would look crisper.
didn't you listen to the intro?
another idiotic video, so who cares
It is actually 14mp. Still perfect for photo and video
I took 33mp (A74) and divided it by 1.6 (the difference in full frame sensor size to apsc crop sensor size) and it comes out to 20.625mp.
Which means its around 13mp for the crop mode
4k60 crop super 35 is not nearly so bad as only being able to shoot 6 frames per second without losing quality for the photography side.
Exactly!! I want this camera soooo bad but the 6fps hurts the heart lmao.
I got one because it's the ultimate hybrid backup to my a7Siii and a7Riv. In my use cases I don't care if it is crop or not at 4k/60 as I'll just shoot that content on the a7Siii.
I can't even tell if you're trolling or telling that APSC Crop is acceptable for real when you say "fantastic APSC hybrid camera". LMAO
The whole point the getting full-frame camera is to make use of the sensor coz otherwize, why would people give up the compactness and portability of APSC like A6400.
Sony is finally equipped with an even worse cripple hammer than Canon...
I'm serious
Most feature films, up until very recently, use the $40,000 Alexa or Arri which are super 35mm or APSC cinema cameras. Full frame for feature DP's viewed full frame almost as 65mm. I've shot two 4K feature films on a tiny Sony A6500 which is a super 35mm camera and love the format for various reasons, but Sony is probably not going to continue their APSC line past the A6600. The fact that the A7 1V can be used an apsc camera is great news. I get 422 10 bit and better color specs - 4k 60 fps. I have too many lenses to move to full frame at this point.
Great video very informative.
Both R6/ii do not line skip or pixel bin for FF 4k60p.
It's still trash tho
@@nVuFilms Triggered lol
What about low light performance in apsc/super35 mode for video. Will it introduce more noise?
“Uploaded 54 seconds ago” sheesh
Nahhhhh Vu the crop is like 14 mega doush pixels 🤣🤦🏾♂️
Correct
I was thinking about adding the 17-70 2.8 from Tamron
id get prime lenses on apsc. 2.8 on apsc is a bit not fire.
Or just get the S5 iix 🎣
I know it's pride month but I'm not a part of that community
Challenge here, is that when you crop into the center of the sensor, you lose a ton of data. This means your image will be substantially noisier as their is less image data.
Roght
Yes but it's a 7 K image sensor downsized to 4K so cropping to the center is still 4.6 K in pixels.
@@FrankCappello_official it's not
Tons of data? I'd like to see that lost data quantified🤔 if you shoot in 4k60 and observed the results, I'm sure that loss of data is negligible visually. Shoot 4k60 and the quality either works for your project or not. If the loss of data sacrificed quality, then youtube would be oversaturated with conversations on "how bad the quality suffers" becuase of cropped 4k60... but I can't find one. Just tons of videos speculating whether it's accepted by the community or not. Just thoughts ✌️
Actually in crop mode with a7IV you get about 14mpix pictures. I have the A7r3 and I get 18mpix in crop mode and it has 42mpix sensor.
13.2mp*
I sold my 16mm sigma to fund A74, now I realize this! Ughh well… I’ll look at Tamron 10-16mm APSC $850 or 12mm 2f Samyang APSC $380
Great points! Not seen anyone else realize what you have yet.
Great points. Sony has made the perfect bridge / entry level / step up camera for all the users of its apsc line who already have those sigma trinity lenses. Then they can slowly build their full frame collection from there.
Correct
The Crop is not 22MP. To calculate the megapixels in crop you have to 33/(1,5*1,5). That will be 14,6667 megapixels in crop.
I mentioned that in my pinned comment
You make a solid argument. I held out as long as I could, but I ended up selling my a6600/lenses to get the a7siii 2 weeks before the official a7iv announcement. It was more of a “future-proofing” move for me.
💯
Nice to see you again. Just saw you on Facebook :)
Use the $1k saved from not going A7siii towards the Sony 14mm 1.8 GM. Problem solved!
I'm not buying a full frame camera to use APSC
Is it not 15MP in crop mode? (1.5x1.5) 2.25/33 =14.66 I might be completely wrong though 😬
You are correct I'm wrong
Very informative and fun video. Nice to watch somebody not hyping themselves. I'm awaiting the arrival of my Sony A74 as an upgrade to my A73 so I have plenty of FF glass already. I really want to use the 4K 60 but the 1.5 crop means my widest lens (20mm) will be bumped to 30mm which is too wide for the occasional real estate video work I do. As a compromise I was considering the Viltrox 13mm APS lens. Shooting in crop mode would this lens give me approx. 20mm equivalent? Or do I need to factor another crop on top of this for the 4K 60?
I was thinking the exact same thing! Why spend money for a full frame 70-200 for $1500 where I can buy a APSC lens for half of the price! I shot a lot of 60fps videos so I will just use the APSC lens!
Well it's not a problem in my case I still using for video the sigma 18-35 1.8 the real problem that this setup it's so heavy and you don't have the best AF compared a native lens but its ok
Thanks, I shoot APSc and just ordered the A7iv and am racking my brain on lenses. I shoot stills and video with an 11-20 1080p using a canon 80D with I think great results. Now I am wondering? Should I shoot on the A7iv 1080 60p with a 16mm to whatever or shoot 4k 60p on the A7iv with a 10 or 11mm to whatever. I am also concerned about file management since I expect files to be larger with the A7iv. Big jump for me but I like your comment at the end of the video about this being a good camera for entering the Sony ecosystem. Thanks great video and info.
I concur. I sold my zeiss 35mm f2.8 and kept my sigma 30mm f1.4. and been using it in crop mode video and great results. When My sony a7Iv arrives I will be using sigma 30mm as a low light beast lens.
🤙🤙
Just give us a line skipping uncropped 4k60 as an option, problem solved
i have all the four SIRUI anamorphic lenses which are used for music video production (on the a6600 at the moment) and i was waiting for a new camera to continue using them. The a1 would be the ultimate option, but pretty expensive. Also switching for SIRUI full frame would be pretty expensive too. So for me the a7 iv is indeed the way to go.
Would love to see the results of 4k anamorphic at 50/60 FPS (slow mo) in crop mode with this camera!
As an a6400 user, the most important reason for me to switch to full frame is to not have to switch between the sigma trio constantly all day
I am upgrading from the Sony a6500 and I'm thinking about buying the Sony 7iv what alot of commentators don't get is there is no Sony apsc camera on the market with a full frame body instead people buy an apsc body and rig it out. So no, buying a full frame camera is not the only reason to get the Sony 7iv and don't forget you still have access to full frame manual lenses you will also be able to house larger apsc lenses on the Sony 7iv body also apsc lenses are lighter in most cases VU made some good points as far as videoagraphy and 14mp on a crop full frame sensor is more than superb.
If you are going to invest in APSC lenses, I think is better to wait a real APSC body with 4K 60p and the other features
I dunno how much more real a body can get
I also thought the same way, it is not a good idea for a full frame user to invest specifically in apsc to exploit that cropped 4k 60. But if you already have apsc lenses than you are set.
👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋
What do you think about this crop mode option?
ALSO... THE APSC CROP PHOTO MEGAPIXELS IS ONLY 15MP. I DUNNO HOW I FIGURED IT WAS 22MP BUT APPARENTLY ONLY 33MP. . CLEARLY IM A TUBEDOUCHE THAT DOESNT KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT... .
Also 4k crop down is from 4.6k not 5.9k
A lot of wrong info in this video 😂🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
I like to think back to the days where A7S II cropped 2.2X going 120 FPS at 1080P. We come a long way... LOL
@@SePark lol
I dont mind.
I think the crop mode mainly negatively affects anyone that needs really wide slow mo. I’ve shot a bunch of EDM events/concerts and you pretty much live at 12-16mm on full frame to make the venue look as big as possible and the slo mo spam for recap videos is real. Occasionally 24-35 if you want certain broll or closer crowd shots. I also do real estate sometimes. Losing that wide fov and versatility on the 12-24 or 16-35 for those gigs makes this camera a no-go for me which sucks, because the A1 is pretty much my only 10bit hybrid option. The R5/R6 basically don’t exist because of the overheating possibility - I’d never touch those in a pro setting.
You are correct, that 1.5 crop just cripples you when you wish to go wide. The idea is this, if you are invested in Sony apsc only then this video make sense. Like Sony 10-18 f4 and Tamron 11-22 f2.8 apsc will help you in those situations. I have Sony 10-18 and I can manage 15mm focul lengths in apsc.
lots of good points here like always! Great video! Photos in APS-C mode would look awesome.
🤙🤙
I would actually love a APSC fx3
Fx30
@@NARRASSAFilmes yes, bought it as soon it came out
There’s really no “truth” about the 1.5x crop. You either work with it or whine about it. How many cameras have a crop that uses a 4.6K image down sampled to 4K? So, there’s that.
Some look at the crop as an “issue”, and/or they see it as a choice that gives them a longer lens. Some just want to whine because that’s what they’re good at.
Facts 🤦
Sony still has to release an update for a 4k60 without crop. You have to do almost
I'm on an A6400 and am getting my first paid gigs, which means I want to upgrade to full frame. I wanted an A7SIII so at the very least around 6000$ and its too steep of a jump for me. If I buy the A7IV, I don't need any lens, maybe 300$ to get the Sigma 16mm APSC, work and slowly build up my collection (tamron 28-70 etc). It would cost me half the price of buying the siii. Only waiting for a restock on the A7IV!
Adorama has it I think
@@nVuFilms I'm french actually and its currently out of stock everywhere here, at least for a month
I’m upgrading to the a7 iv from an a6300, and I was thinking I’d be able to get decent use out of my aps-c lenses (including a couple of those sigmas). Glad to see I’m not crazy!
I’m also going to be checking out some FE joints, but at least I won’t feel the pressure to immediately replace everything.
Same here I’m upgrading from a6300
Another A6300 owner here. I bought a crop Sony mirrorless specifically so I could get some of the Sirui anamorphic lenses (I have the 24 and 50mm). Would 4k anamorphic at 60FPS (with those lenses) be a possibility then?
Great video, by the way 33 MP cropped sensor is not 22 but would be a 14 MP photos. I guess you misspoken
thanks for not having a dumb intro I had to sit / ff through.
Lol
I hate intro that serve no purpose noisy and a waste of time if you are going to say something say it overall I agree with you 100%
Thank you Vu for sharing, how about the video breathing issue with a7IV? I guess that can't be fixed with the lense(I am looking for the solution just sadly it is one of the issue, without knowing the actual impact it is a bit of decision to make)
A lot of reviewers forget to mention the aperture when talking about APS-C mode. They kept on rambling about FOV. I recorded using 40mm F2.5 at 25fps and then at 50fps. FOV changed, it is something I already expected, and then when close inspected, I noticed the aperture also got affected.
I am quite new at videography. I used a Sony ZV-1 prior. Using the aperture settings f/4, I have everything in focus. When applying the same settings to a7 IV, I did not get the same result. Now, I am laughing at myself after understanding the effect of aperture on different sensor size.
Anyway, it is not that often I record in 50fps and planning to get rid of Sony ZV-1 and replace it with ZV-E1.
Your so REAL-allistic Bro. Love your commentary
I have this one. Love this camera
Lol. I have the Sigma 16mm 1.4 ❤️ lens
APSC left over from my Sony A6400. Also a kick ass camera IMO
I LOVE that I can use full and apsc lens.
🤙🤙
Great video as always VU ! I just wanted to throw this out there for anyone who's interested.. you can do 120 FPS at 4.2.2 10 bit on S&Q mode. But you have to select S-I HD. Its not 4k but its sharp enough. And you can give it a boost by upscaling your export to 4k.
As a creative.. its all about problem solving and making things work. The A7IV is a capable camera despite the amount of short comings and the amount of complaints its been getting.
So, for example, with the sigma 30mm aps-c lens, 4k60p is still 4k. What if I want to shoot 4k 24p… will I still be getting full 4k? Or will the camera crop the image as well as the resolution like an A7siii?
Liked you video. I've just bought (invested) in the A74 and will first use it with my apsc lenses first. Wanted to use its 10 bit colour video and high dynamic range. Still figuring out on how to utilise these two aspects. Love the so many customisable buttons in A74 compared to a6400. Thanks for the video.
I have a canon t6i ASPC 24 MP Would the Sony A7IV in crop mode for photos be better than the old camera I have now?? I plan to get Sony glass but just want to use the aspc glass to hold me over for the mean time! Thanks
I do only photography, can you tell how many mpx on crop mode? a7iii is around 10. Many thanks
16
@@nVuFilms Thanks 👍🏻
What are your thoughts on the rolling shutter…. I kept my A7C, should I have kept the A7C & gone for the A7S3 instead of A74? A7C for photos & a7s3 for video? That’s my only gripe…not sure if having both A7C as B & A74 as main for video makes the most sense.
You can reduce rolling shutter on the A7IV by going into crop mode. Check out DSLR Video Shooter's video comparing the A7s III vs A7IV. If you're constantly making quick movements on your camera and need to be in full frame, I would look to the A7s III. Personally, I don't do that and having crop set to one button on the a7IV is super helpful for event/wedding video. I can increase focal length without exchanging lenses or missing moments.
If I use a crop lens that would enable the super35 and shoot 4k 60p would it punch in another 1.5x or?
Or just use 1080p, I started doing professional work on the a7c, no one (paying clients) has ever noticed or complained that the slow motion (60p and 120p) looks lesser than 4K 24p a-roll.
1080p on a7IV APSC mode looks borderline 4k tho
Basically use it as an APSC camera AND still bs sharper than the competition (also including a7s3?)
Is there a crop if shooting at 4K 24fps?
No
Dont forget no time limit or over heating risk while on a job.
Yea
Wowzers! Adding on that 35-150 Tami and things will be perfect….just don’t forget your power lifting workout 😂
Please can I ask, I have heard this camera does 1080p at 120fps only does 8 bit recording in that mode? Is this correct?
I don't know if you know you can interpolateor convert a 60 frame slow motion video to 120 on premiere, and based on my ways to use it it's almost indistingable. Only a pixel peeping person with notice artifacts but sometimes you don't see nothing so in my opinion you can do it
I can see it
Hi everything you say is correct. It is not a bad idea to occasionally use the camera in crop mode but what is the quality in 4K 60fps and especially the noise? I would like to see a comparison. I already saw a video that the 4K 24fps and 30fps of the a74 has more definition than the a7s3 at the same frame rate. Because the down sampling from 7k
Wait a few weeks and your recommendations will be flooded with those pixel peeping comparison videos 😀.
Quality goes down to aps-c level camera. If you plan to shoot 4k 60 frames a74 is not the best option. Take fx30 that will use 26 megapixels instead of 14 megapixels in this mode.
Well said brother, and my thoughts exactly. I decided to save the amount extra I would of spent on an a7siii and ordered an 85mm for my a7iv. Stoked to get my hands on it.
🤙🤙
But I can not Use these lenses in Full Frame, so I waste a lot of money for 3 lenses only in Crop mode
Vu - do you know if you can use catalyst browse with the three sigma lenses.
Hey bro, question for ya... I do a lot of fast action panning photography. Would this camera be good for me? Or will there also be significant rolling shutter in my photos as well? Thanks much
I think it's fine
@franco so, fast action with shaky hands and body, yes. Where rolling shutter shows up is when you’re doing fast action sports photography or videography and whipping the camera around to get your shots.
But then again, if you know what you’re doing, at 10fps and fast af system, you should nail your shot.
For video, only the DP and film crew will see the rolling shutter and those will be removed in post. The audience will not see this so not sure what’s the big deal it is being made out of.
Vu would be first to complain as he does this for a living. Listen to those who does this for a living, both photographers and videographers would like better specs but work around them and don’t harp on the weaknesses as others who haven’t used it yet and complain just to complain.
I used the A73 before and had no problems in stills
@@nomad0714 you're absolutely not catching my drift. I do shoot photo and video for fast action panning, at cars on track erratically accelerating and braking from a dead stop to going 60+ mph. I will absolutely test and go beyond the boundaries of an ecosystems readout speeds. It doesn't matter if Sony's AF is dead accurate and I got the shot.
Look at this situation objectively.
@@francissosing, for your use case then for stills, A9-1/9-2/A1 (all have no blackout) and for video with little rolling shutter are the A7S3/FX3 if you want to stay with Sony and af system.
But you will loose full frame mojo. Which is significant.
The noise pattern in low light in crop mode is not looking good though.
14-15mp for stills in crop
YOU ARE CORRECT
can tilta cage for sony a7siii will fit on sony a7iv?
I honestly wouldn’t buy the sigma for 1,100$. Some one once told me date your camera body and marry your lens. I’d save a little more and buy the 16-35mm gm. In crop that would be 24-52.5mm. This way you can use full frame and apsc mode. Used ain’t that expensive.
2.8
Good (idiotic) point, well done !
🤙🤙
Vu - if I video in S-Cinetone 10 bit 422 do I have to over expose my footage.
No
Could always shoot at 4k 30 if u dont need to slow it down
Legend! Great explanation. Not a lot of people understand the crop mode and you explain it very well
Thanks brother 🤙
The crop sucks for real estate video
Don't need to shoot 60fps
I guess I can shoot in 1080 60fps 10 bit 4:2:2 which is more then enough… but you gotta have that wide angle in real estate… I could go with the 14 mm gm to get 20 mm cropped in… but that bulby lens for ND filters would be a nightmare
Here are three cheap alternatives Full Frame E-mount lenses you can find cheap.
sony 28mm f2.0 FE = 42mm in apsc mode (ultra wife converter and fisheye converter compatible)
Sony 50mm f1.8 FE = 75mm in apsc mode
Sony 16mm f2.8 pancake lens (could be used in full frame mode with a 1.2x clear image zoom) - ultra wide converter fisheye converter compatible.
The 50 is trash
@@nVuFilms if you update the firmware on the 50mm up to the latest the autofocus improves a lot.
@@streetlegends it's loud. IQ isn't great either
You just completely sold me on a7IV after this, I have a6600 and the sigma trio. I am salivating right now at the prospect of absolutely amazing hybrid system. I have a7SIII and I will definitely get this beast as my main camera. For all intends and purposes, a7SIII and a6600 are going to be B cams for this.
I own an a6400 with the sigma lenses i think the a7iv will be the way to go for me
That’s me right there. I have the a6400 , sigma trio, 10-22 and just got the A74 plus the sigma 24-70. The 4K 60p with way less rolling shutter in crop mode is awesome. I’m keeping my a6400 as a second photo camera and the A74 with IBIS and 4K 60p as my video cam. The full frame for photos with my 24-70 is just gravy on top
Great Video. Does the crop mode kick in at 4K at 24 fps? thanks
Do you think the a74 will have less rolling shutter in apc-mode than in full frame mode?
Less
Sigma 16mm f1.4 or any wide lens doesn't get same shallow Depth of Field.
Yea the look is more like 24mm f/2 as I mentioned in the video
Amen! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
💯
is there any zoom lens that combine all these focal lens ?
i know i am gonna loose in quality but i dont want to change lenses so often
The Tamron 17-70 f2.8 would cover those ranges. It’s a great lens!
Or just buy an apsc sensor camera and some lenses for a fraction of the price.
Problem... Those other apsc cameras are rubbish in comparison
Thats sad, xh2 will blow it out
Wish someone would compare 1080P to the SIII, as i often shoot in this mode and then the IV would match without a problem
I will when I get one
This guy doesn’t even know how many pixels there are in APSC mode for photo… it ain’t 22MP buddy!
Hey asshat... I already mentioned the mistake in the comments. Stay being a loser.
@@nVuFilms you put put put a video with multiple errors and I’m the loser?
@@inderveerjohal7218 yes because you dont put out anything period
Vu would you recommend the Fujifilm XT-4 over the A7IV especially now that they have new version 2 prime lenses?
Xt4 af is some dank trash
@@nVuFilms lol! Truth!
Yes :)
thanks !
I’m seriously thinking about getting this as a a7riii stills replacement and as a B cam to my a7s iii.
Have you tried matching the color of the a7iv to the a7s iii? On paper it should match, but you never know when you get down on the scopes. Really want a fast workflow and no grading to match
It will match a lot better than Riii for sure
Love this. It has been seriously gripping my shet reading people moaning because Sony didn't release an a7siii at the price of an a7iii. I wonder if these same people go in to Lamborghini to complain because they don't sell their Aventador for the same price as a Renault Cleo.
People are dumb 🤷♂️
33MP in vidéo with crop mode = 22MP or 15MP ?
it's 15MP
Video is different
@@nVuFilms So why ?
@@WeddingDocumentary So it is more detrimental on the image quality to use the crop APSC in video rather than in photography, because in one case (photography), we still have a nice resolution (22MP), while in the other case, we have a significant loss of resolution (15MP)
you actually have work to back up your shit. can't tell ya how much i appreciate and respect that.
thank u. keep grinding my man.
🤙🤙🤙
are u ok? so many cuts bro
I cut a lot in many yr videos
@@nVuFilms strange, like just in this video i began to notice. btw when new phucc video?
Glad for this perspective. I don't even shoot much at 60fps so this crop will be a non-issue for me. I'm very excited for my A7IV to arrive. Thx.
🤙
These are facts.
🤙🤙
Great video, thank you. I am lucky enough to have the Sony a1, but I am looking for a B cam for many scenarios and I am considering the A7IV. The concern I have with the rolling shutter issues is, I shoot a lot of kids dance concerts. A question for you: If I had the A7IV locked off on a tripod for the wide shot to capture the whole stage (so the kids would be fairly small), so you think it would be an issue? The kids would be moving through the frame quickly, but I am not sure that at a distance the rolling shutter would be an issue. I’d appreciate your views.
(Oh, I’d be shooting in either 24 or 30frames 4K).
Thanks so much. ✌️
Probably fine
@@nVuFilms Thank you.
You can put this super crop mode only on video or also in photos for more zoom ?
Photos also
Thanks for this review! Have you looked at the rolling shutter effect in APSC? I think there will be a lot less jello effect with this mode!
only negative I can think of in the APSC mode is the IBIS wont be as good but the digital stabalisation should be the same Im guessing.
@@markshirley01 I'm meeting with the Sony rep in my hometown today to find more about that!
APSC 4k60 is absolutely minor compared to: Overheating giving you no 60p after shooting a full ceremony at 24p, . missing chunks of toasts and ceremony because of forgetting the 30min limits (canon r5/6), having half of the footage out of focus ( panasonic).
Dynamic range has zero correlation with sensor size.
A7iV is a great hybrid shooter/2nd camera for the price.
Agree
When you master manual focusing it can be much more useful than autofocus, camera not always focusing in that ehat i want. I shot mostly handheld and A7 III ibis sucks. Thats why i prefer Panasonic on weddings.
@@ryszardzokowski812 I film weddings with 3-4 cameras, i cant manual focus 3 cameras at the same time.
I absolutely agree right, I mean people can't be satisfied. I understand my bias as I am into Sony ecosystem but people just can't be satisfied.