The Missing Piece To Beat High Dollar Amps? Burson V7 OpAmp Review
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How is everyone doing today? What's new with you?
having fun with a fosi tb20a pro, an aiyima A07 pro, and a douk u10...starting the journey
It would be great if you could compare with SPARKOS LABS SS2590 PRO opamps. Seems like good competition for these. Or at least with other sparkos you have laying around.
or just the Sparkos SS3602
@@drjlo1there is another channel that was doing an op amp shoot out and they compared these and the sparcos and another Italian brand stacato
You do it
@@mutethealbinomime If you are talking about the "P" channel, I wish he would compare them all to an industry-standard op-amp such as OPA627 or even NE5534. The "O" channel does that, but to LME49710 (single), which is discontinued, but the dual version is still available. My tastes just don't align with "O" however :)
I have all of these opamps... I can tell you... The V7 does beat the SS3602 in dynamics... Like a V shape... Sparkos is about clean amplification of signals with a unique approach to efficiency and quietness. I have the SS2590's..... The size difference makes using them a challenge. Personally the SS2590's do sound amazingly natural... Very analog. I think the V7 is great.... But I feel it leans too crisp. As I age.... This might be a thing weall need though.
Funny - ❤ Opamp swapping as an aid when we lose the upper frequency ranges of hearing.
Another great vid, I have had a Ayima amp for over 3 years now ,no problems and great value at about a hundred bucks Canadian, I think you have shown me that an upgraded power supply would be my first upgrade . Thanks, keep'em coming.
Sparkos are good too. Had them in my 07 and now the V3
Great video, Matt, thank you!
Glad you liked it! More to come!
great video as always Matt, gor now just trying out some things and enjoying my music....a bit far of op-amp swaping....but looove different amps...a, ab, d and tubes....
Right on, it’s fun to play around with the different gear.
Putting pricey discrete-component op-amps in a sub-$100 chip amp that already performs very well is like putting a $2000 set of fancy Michelin tires on a perfectly adequate and reliable Toyota Corolla. IOW, it's a self-evidently insane purchase -- but then again, it's your money and there's nothing wrong with spending it on something that pleases you, so there's that... 🤑
Thanks! I wanted to put this on, but I didn’t know if the size would fit in ZA3.
Thanks for the video Matt, I was wondering about these particular op-amps... I tried the Sparkos, and they veiled the sound in my system, any thoughts on the Sparkos vs the Burson?
@MattCoykendall1 Appreciate you trying the Burson, thank you. Will it be possible for you to subjectively, or qualitatively dissect the change into say, sounstage, Lower/Mid/Upper frequency, instrument separation, layering ect? It could be a plus on one attribute and a negative on another. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Great review. thx
Thanks for watching!
My system is my pc going to the Geshelli 4499 J2S DAC with two Muses02 opamps in the xlr slots, to a Topping A70 Pro, to the Fosi ZA3 with a Sparkos SS3602 in the xlr opamp slot and two TI OPA1656 in the left and right channel slots. I removed the subwoofer opamps from the ZA3. My Emotiva XB2's sound like I have spent enough fucking money on this hobby. Thanks for the video, you saved me some time if I ever take the ZA3 apart again.
Thats what I said about your mom....
Please make a comparison with sparkos
If the XLR inputs are being used, would I have to only swap out its respective Op-Amp vs the left and right? I do not intend to use the RCA inputs on my ZA3.
Okay ... if you are using XLR in stereo ... you need to change the XLR op-amp as well as the left and right chips. The signal passes through all three.
If you want a cheap but excellent op-amp to try out the Muses 8920 is hard to beat.
I hope you can also review the Sparkos SS3602? And for devices that can fit it - the Sparkos SS2590 in their dual mono DIP8 adapter, as well?
Hey Neil ... how you doing?
This popped up in my home page again today so I thought I would take a look at the newer comments...
I recently did some swapping in an A07 (the one on my website) and discovered a few interesting tidbits in the process.
First, the stock NE5532s are not bad, but they're not all that good either. I would never use them in a balanced audio input stage, but they're fine for buffers and phase splitters or for low to moderate gains. That said, I did not like their performance in the A07. I don't know exactly how to characterize the sound of them... weak or perhaps lacking ... comes close.
Replacing them with op-amps with higher input impedances seems to clear up some of the problem. I tried RC4558s and TL072s with good success. The Muse02 was ok but not significantly better than the cheaper "jelly bean" chips.
A friend loaned me a pair of the Sparkos and they sounded really good. But again, not braggably better than the cheaper alternatives.
After some time on the bench with each I finally concluded that while there can be improvements, the most significant one seems to come from getting the NE5532 chips out of there... no matter what you replace them with, so long as they have higher input impedances. The most noticeable improvement is in the low bass region (under about 50hz).
I was a little surprised because so much pro-audio gear uses the NE5532 chips almost exclusively... Makes me wonder how much better the mixing and recording consoles could be, for not a lot more money...
Have a good day, my friend.
Would be great if you could compare with the SPARKOS LABS SS2590 PRO. Seems like good competition for these.
Yeah agreed... I wish I had that one on hand for a few tests, I have a pair of SS3602's but not the 2590 pro, I could always reach out though and see if I could get a pair in house.
@@MattCoykendall1 You can also compare with those. And others you have in hand or can get your hands on. An opamp fight seems like a good topic for a video.
@@MattCoykendall1 I too am interested in the comparo between these Bursons and the SS3602. Cheers.
Did you contact Burson and have them send you a set free for this review?
Full disclosure on that: They actually reached out to me and asked if I would be interested, they didn’t push any topics or ask for a preview before posting. The only communications were shipping and then me letting them know I posted the video. Fair question!
Its always a pleasure to watch your vids, you come across as really laid back and personable.
Keep up the good work!
I appreciate that!
Thank you, Matt, for your honest and detailed review of our V7 opamp. To assist our customer in installing their opamp correctly we have a short tutorial here for your reference: th-cam.com/video/PGlISRiw3Mw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0vr0_Vr8-BY9qiMM
geshelli labs also offer opamp change
Yep, I have been meaning to reach out to them for some of their DAC’s/Amps.
Two quick points ...
1) As Matt mentioned, you really should clean away and replace the heat sink compound on that bottom heat spreader and inside the case _every time_ you open the amplifier up. The stuff is like stickum, it picks up every bit of dust and grit it touches and if that gets into the junction between the spreader and case it will degrade the cooling significantly.
2) Matt didn't mention that those sockets, no matter how cool they look, are _definitely not_ intended for frequent chip swapping. Sockets are generally included as a service convenience for chips that tend to fail. They're made for perhaps half a dozen extraction/insertion cycles in the lifetime of a device and frequent swapping can/will break them. Trust me, you won't like the price to have them replaced...
Ну нельзя быть таким дурачком...( Поменять кроватку дипа - один раз дунуть паяльным феном.. Какая там цена..
@@imiafamily
The price is that most people will not have the tools or the skills to do that and will end up paying a technician $100 or more for the job.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 братан, пригласи меня к себе - мы озолотимся на этой примитивной работе!) я привезу ребят, которые за 10$ будут круглосуточно паять всё, что угодно! А 90 - нам...? Это шутка..
Охренеть конечно, у вас цены...
@@imiafamily
1) Don't call me "bro".
2) I'm not in the habit of ripping people off.
3) You are writing in Russian so I'm guessing you live there. Things around here (Canada and USA) are a little different. Most technicians in my area are charging $75.00 per hour for labour, plus the cost of parts.
4) The people doing this chip flipping are not generally technicians, nor do they have any real interest in electronics... they're trying to fine tune their audio systems.
NE5532 good? If you like smeared compressed audio then they are great
Hello...you may find this interesting and maybe informative...most of the music industry's recording equipment today is still based on the NE5532 op-amp
Won't power 20.7s 😮
Coda Ts v3 800w@4ohms
That Coda looks like a beast of an amp!
@@MattCoykendall1
Doug Dale SuperGenius 👏
Changing the sound = modifying the sound = adding distortion
What if I told you…. Sound IS distortion 😮
Not always ... sometimes you are actually reducing distortion. The Ne5532 chips are dirt cheap and often faked. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you swap in, getting the stock chips out of there is an improvement all by itself.
I only believe this to make a difference if you do a controlled experiment with blind testers, and testers can clearly identify a difference. I would be surprised such an experiment would show that:
1) Blind testes can actually hear a difference
2) If they could hear a difference they attribute an improvement in sound quality to these amps.
Especially given the cost of these amps, I am very doubtful this is a good idea.
Also, there are other integrated, pin-compatible audio amps out there with stellar specs, for a fraction of the cost.
Yep ... I typically swap in RC4558 or TL072 chips. Both are under $1.00 each.
The real jump is not from putting in exotic op-amps, it is from removing the NE5532 chips.
@@Douglas_Blake_579 Thanks for sharing your swapping recommendation. In what sense are your preferred amps better than the NE5532, objectively? Is it distortion under load, and/or noise?
@@SkyIsTheLimit68
Two key differences ... no input clamping diodes and higher input impedance.
Almost twice the price for the amp itself…
Op amp videos never explain what the op amp does and why one would impact the sound differently to another. Voodoo.
It can be a lot to digest when you read some of the marketing material and thats why I I dont join the extreme hype train like some others on these video's, just try to keep it real. Thanks for the comment!
An operational amplifier (“op amp”) can be thought of as a cluster of circuitry to provide voltage gain stage wrapped in a small package. Rather than the designer having to reinvent the wheel, he can put to use and incorporate other’s engineering accomplishments to provide a pre-packaged voltage amplification within the context of a larger circuit design. Hope this helps.
@@clarencehoover6748 OK, that is what an OP Amp does. But the Fosi Amp with stock Op Amps already measures dead accurate in frequency response and has distortion far below what humans can detect,
What Is It That You Are Trying To Change? Matt, you are right, Burson's marketing materials seem almost entirely aimed at changing how you feel about Op Amps.
An Op-Amp is basically a stable, gain controllable circuit element. They are so popular because of the simplicity of implementing various circuits.
There are two main factors to look at. Both will be catalogued in the individual chip's data sheets...
First you want to look at "Input Impedance"... Op-amps with higher input impedances will give you better low bass, as a result of less loading on coupling capacitors bringing signal into the chip.
Second you want to look at "Gain Bandwidth Product" ... this is the frequency at which an Op-Amp falls to unity gain. Typically the higher this is (within reason) the better your high frequency response will be. For example: a chip hitting a GBP of 50khz is likely to be a poor choice for full range audio, with any gain involved, and one with a 100khz GBP will perform better in that spot.
However.... since these op-amps in the Fosi amps are working at unity gain, any difference from these two factors is going to be small to trivial. In this case your biggest bang for the buck is not what you put in, it's what you take out.
Those NE5532 chips are just about the cheapest op-amps going. They are also the most commonly counterfeited (although Fosi claims genuine chips only). Simply getting them out of your amp is the biggest improvement you're going to make. I typically sub in RC4558 or TL072 chips. They're both under a dollar each and both do make a noticeable improvement over the NE5532s.
@@ggrochjust more phony crap to waste your money on
Swapping opamps is kinda dumb, especially with those overpriced discrete ones.
Also comparing them without a blind test is equally pointless.
Whoa, hang on a minute there!
There IS a right and a wrong here, actually.
Either it's right to buy these things costing at least as much as the amp because they make a discernable and improved difference to the sound, or
it's wrong to buy these things costing as much as the amp because they make no bloody difference whatever!
So, forgive me if don't just to take your - or anyone else's - word for it, won't you.
Because until such time as these things are null tested along with the default op amps and are further subjected to properly conducted, double blind
listening tests, well, as the saying goes: a fool and his money...
Discrete op amps such as this are generally baloney unless you care for the sound created by worse specs and offsets. I personally wouldn't consider that an "improved" sound, but if some like it all the power to them. Since a normal op amp such as the NE5532 is made on a single die, it allows for much better thermal coupling between everything on the die, and much tighter tolerances. The result is an undeniably better op amp. The best discrete op amp will never be as good as a decent op amp IC. NE5532 ICs are fine, but there is definitely better. They are what a lot of high end mixers and studio gear use anyways though, and are good enough for me. If you want something better I would look for alternatives that are still made on a single die, and not discrete. That should keep you out of snake oil territory.
@@hubaswift7640 And who could argue with that! Not I, because the properties you allude to are rational, in the sense that they can be measured.
This reminds me of my days building effects pedal's using discrete components, including the venerable bc109 transistor.
The bc109 came, as I recall, in 3x varients: 'a', 'b' and 'c'. The differences between them - for the purposes of grading - was that although they all came from the same substrate, by the same process during the same run, some measured quieter and were thus 'tossed' into the 'c' bin whilst the noisier ones became 'a's or 'b's.
Thus, 109c's always cost a few pence more. A small price for freedom from random noise, I think you will agree.
I understand that the grading of the TL series of op amps was done on a similar basis.
The TL062 being the noisiest [least expensive] and the TL082 the quietest [ and a few pence more].
I understand that these miniscule yet measurable differences between ostensibly identical components are entirely due to quantum effects at an atomic level [where else. Haha.]
These things play nicely into your posit regarding the benefits of single die components verses discretes.
Forgive the ramble.
I have a bunch of Fosi amps including a V3 stereo with holes in the top to accommodate Burson V6 op amps. I do think they improve the sound a bit to my ears, but no way would I buy the op amps at full price. I had them in a drawer, picked up for another project (a Kinki Studio Ex-M1).
I think if you have spare op amps laying around, or can pick them up cheaply second hand, it can be worth experimenting, but don't expect night and day changes.
Actually my favourites are Staccato from Poland.
@@jimfarrell4635 As far as I am concerned the judicious use of otherwise unused, known quality components as 'doner' parts in other kit
is in the best, time honoured tradition of 'fettling' that probably reaches all the way back to the time of the pioneer enthusiasts with their home made, crystal radio sets.
Ok, a little over the top, perhaps! But good on you.
@@philipkershaw7918Fettling sounds a bit rude and may make you go blind, but I like the word. With your permission I intend to use it on at least a daily basis. Indeed. I think most audiophiles are inveterate tinkerers at heart. Even when I know I should leave well alone, I can't resist Fettling.
Behavioral scientists will argue that swapping op amps is almost exactly like "gluing audiophile rocks to speaker cables", the difference being that you believe op amp swaps make a difference and that rocks do not. There is almost no measured difference between op amps (certainly running a parametric EQ is a more reliable and effective way to modify output). Established science proves our brains are prediction engines that extrapolate conclusions from the very limited data that makes it from our eardrums to conciousness. If you believed gluing rocks made a difference, you would certainly hear the difference. Snake Oil.
🤔hmm .. so by your reckoning all these opamp companies and makers and hifi amplifier makers ... should only ever make one product...because they are all the same circuit and sound and perform exactly the same!!??
..are you sure you even know what opamp circuits is? ...to realise how completely nonsensical your comment is?
There's a big difference. At least in my system.
@@nc3419 That big difference you hear precisely proves my point. If OP Amps make any actual difference that difference will be very small because it is unmeasurable or nearly so. Since you hear a BIG difference there must be other factors at work. You hear a big difference because your brain predicts you will hear a big difference. Not a criticism, it is how all of our brains work.
@@humanitech
Definitely not the same circuit. But once frequency response is flat and distortion is below 0.1% ... yep, they pretty much all sound the same.
Ahhhh! you, sir, are the voice of reason in a sea of delusion.
How refreshing.
Regards.
We don't perceive sound the same way we measure it so its all pretty much psychoacoustics, no need to apologize for talking about how something sounds.
Interesting comment.
I trust you do realize that an electrical audio signal is merely a voltage that varies over time. That basic signal is then amplified (made stronger) to a level that will drive speakers. As such this bouncing ball voltage becomes a map of how to move the speaker cones. The movement of the speaker cones creates changes in air pressure that moves your eardrums and gives you sound to listen to.
In fact, that moving waveform you see on an oscilloscope (measuring device) is a pretty close representation of the movement of your ear drums... So yes, we do measure what we hear.