Helpless Hyundai...Key STUCK in Ignition, Battery DEAD!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Owner is fed up with his 2015 Hyundai Tucson because it doesn't let you remove the key from the ignition switch, and then DRAINS the battery xD
Let's diagnose this Helpless Hyundai with the help of OEM Service info, some basic tools, and a good scanner. Any parts required?
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Ivan
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The part that's so frustrating is that the dealer is always so ready to load the parts cannon and waste everyone's time and money. They're not the stealership for no reason. Great video Ivan!
They are actually incentivized to "fix" more things that don't need to be repaired. I know the BMW dealers are horrific about this, and love to rack up $6k charges for simple things. Dealers are a minefield, even when buying a car from them.
The majority of dealer technicians are paid on a piece work aka flat rate system. If the vehicle is under any kind of warranty, with few exceptions the tech cannot get paid to diagnose or troubleshoot a given issue. Should a tech disasemble anything and the part is not in stock he or she is required to put everything back together. When the part does arrive take everything apart again. You only get paid once to take something apart. You can be working 40 hours a week yet come home with alot less than 40 hours pay. A brand new vehicle has a rattle over bumps. They will not pay you to drive it around attempting to duplicate and repair the customer concern. This system designed by Henry Ford over 100 years ago favors the manufacturer only. Best bet is to find a dealership where the techs are paid on a salaried basis.
the solution is to leave bad reviews of those stealerships so they don't get customers in that department, and their technicians would leave and evolve in to a future Ivan, whom the world needs more of.
This is common in the Hyundai/Kia world. Quick thing to do is remove the shift knob. Just pull it straight up and it pops right off. If you can remove the key then the problem is the shift knob. I've seen them break internally around the release button and prevent the park microswitch in the shifter to close. This can bite you in the ass since the knob is not part of the shifter assembly from the dealer.
Number two is to remove the center console to inspect the park microswitch. It may be bent or broken and is a very generic and easy switch to source and replace. Good work as always.
I believe you are right.I don't know crap about kias but to me i do know micro switches and their use.this to me would make sense that the manufacture put in a switch somewhere on the transmission or shift mechanism to only allow key removal when trannys in park and car is not moving.By the same reasoning they should have put a program into the ECM to lock you out of putting the trans into reverse when the car is in motion.This would make trannys last longer?Or maybe the switch is adjustable?
@@robertoruiz7069 I know crap about Kias, they're crap.. lol
@@robertoruiz7069 So, some voices in the wilderness knows and this guy's dealer wants to fire off the parts cannon. Typical of dealers.
I had the same problem with my niece's Hyundai. I used a battery isolator as a quick fix so she could drive it until she could leave it with me for a day. Once I had the car I checked a lot of stuff and in the end I figured out that it was a slightly bent shift lever. It was going into Park but it was not going forward enough to trigger the sensor to release the key. A quick bend of the lever and it was fixed. I spoke to my niece and it turned out someone had been climbing from the front seats into the back seats and had pushed the lever with their foot and they must have bent it. It has worked fine for two years now. No parts required :)
I'm a small garage in KY, as soon as I seen the start of this video, I knew the issue. I had one last year that did this, the switch that the shifter makes contact with was bad. Replaced it & it solved the problem.
Hey Ivan, one last step (which I presume you did off camera) would be to confirm if the ground is good to the shift interlock switch. That would 100% confirm if the switch is actually bad or if it's just missing the ground connection, either of those scenarios would cause the same symptoms and test results we saw👍.
Kia tech here, we see this issue often. Normally its the bcm failed and not supplying the ground.
@@dankoval8139 Going by the diagram Ivan showed, there is a permanent ground connection to one side of the shift interlock switch, and the other wire from the switch is a signal wire to the bcm.
The bcm itself doesn't ground anything on the shift interlock switch circuit, the bcm is monitoring the interlock switch and looking to see a ground connection when the shifter is in park/neutral, or open/no ground connection when not in park/neutral.
When the bcm sees the correct input from the shift interlock switch, it grounds the ignition switch key release solenoid, allowing the key to be removed.
If the interlock switch is faulty/not closing, or the ground connection to the interlock switch is open, the result will be the same, the bcm will never see a ground connection on the signal wire and won't operate the key release solenoid🤣👍
Ivan, you emboldened me to figure out what was going on with the idle on my Focus. I tested everything and decided it could only be the throttle position sensor which, I replaced today and now it's idling perfect. Please keep making these videos as you are helping many people with them. Thanx.
Nice job!
The reason I watch you, is because you actually know what you are talking about, I was an instructor at an automotive technical institute for nine years, prior to that I was a tech from 72-96 I don't know everything & I stay away from people that think that they do know everything, but one thing that separates you from the most is you don't guess. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos.
Thanks for the kind words John 🙂
i had a hyunda sanata with the same problem. i was able to get around it by popping a little plastic lid open on the shifter and push a button with a small screwdriver. was called a shift lever lock release. edit it was a 2008, sold it a wile back so had to look.
That Hyundai problem was begging for a famous Ivan no parts fix (assuming the shifter can be removed and taken apart easily). I'd suspect the sense switch has been bent or moved and probably could be "encouraged" to move back to where it belongs.
Given that the car was slammed in park and the switch worked, I'd say that bent contacts are almost a certainty here.
Should be easy enough to un-bend them and give them a clean.
If you were to dig into the shift lever assembly, perhaps there would be a replaceable micro switch. Just a guess. Sgt Schultz and I agree: we know NOTHING about the mechanism!
Showing your age there. But, of course, I had to Google Sgt. Schultz because I'm a real spring chicken. And if you believe that, I have some cheap seaside real estate for sale in Arizona.
Yeah I was hoping he would dig in and find the actual switch and see if it was replaceable or not. Bummer
Shultz gets handed a button from a POW's clothes. "What's it say?" It says "us" (as in we). Never gets old. I had German relatives that visited in 1969 or 70. My father's uncle, wife, daughter, SIL and grandson. The uncle fought on the Russian front. They didn't "Get" this show.
The difference here is that you're a real tech, and the guy at Hyundai is just a parts replacer
I'm disappointed Ivan, this was one of your no parts needed easy fixes. There is a little 1 inch long black box on the side of the shifter, it has a springy metal tab on it that makes contact with ground obviously wire attached to it that goes back to the pin you probed. The button on the shifter that lets you move it out of park has a rod that travels down and is on a spring, that plastic rod is lubed with lithium grease that dries up or people spill coffee on it. All you need to do is pop the knob off, clean it and lube with lithium or silicone spray and it will work for many years to come. I work at one of these dealers and we charge a half hour and no parts to fix this issue that is common, the dealership by you must be clueless.
I agree with the guy's comment about popping the shifter apart a lot of times people spill coffee or pop down there it's an easy fix
Great job Ivan. I like how you stick it to the dealership man! Thanks
Check for dried up lubrication in the shifter position switch. A) Probably nothing wrong with the contacts and B)Replacing the part will fail within two years with the same problem. Just take it apart, clean it and relube it with a better quality grease.
obviously, the shift lever fails to pull down the signal so two possibilities 1- missing ground or 2- oxidation on the contact plate.
Oh yeah. Similar job you did on the other car with shifter issue. You bypassed the wire. Owner accepted the liability reasons. Good simple tests and quick to find out. Great video!!
I hope the dealership see this video!
I've encouraged a local shop owner to make her mechanics aware of videos like these. However, because of so much miss information on TH-cam in general, she's not interested.
Great videos as always Ivan. Whatever happened to the simple BTS (brake Trasmissin shift) solenoid back in the day? GM had the simple setup back in the 90's with a solenoid that was simply operated by the brake pedal providing power. If it failed it had a bypass.
Finally after all these years you're worried about liability and no parts required Good job.
Didn't the shifter have a micro switch grounding the wire in park. I have seen this fault in other makes like porches some have a cable obviously not relevant here. Top vid as usual.
Fast and efficient! An uncle had a new Kia - some part related to the gas filler failed and he couldn't put gas in. Took months to get the part (this was long before there was a pandemic) and he didn't keep the car long!
I've been using a Launch X431 Pad II ever since it came out and I love that scanner! I had to replace the battery in it about a year ago but it's still going strong. The only real drawback is the extremely limited storage space during large software updates. But a few months ago, I picked up a ThinkTool Pros+ and so far, I think it's a pretty decent scanner for the money. I like it a lot. I paid a little over $1,100 for mine though. It came with a large assortment of adaptors for pre OBD2 vehicles, which is handy. I just ordered the printer add-on and the TPMS tool for it so may just make this my new daily driver. By the way, thanks for the tip on that scanner Ivan.
Ivan,
Great video and diag - thank you! I suppose most vehicles have similar systems. My 2002 Ford Focus has a very similar key removal interlock as this so they have been used for at least 20+ years.
Paul (in MA)
There's even a few that have a mechanical interlock from the shifter lever going all the way up into the steering column.
With the interlock mechanism made out of plastic.
I told Randy you could help him. BTW Jack was very pleased with your service.
You're breaking the 5th wall of reality-- You're going to open a worm hole
Thanks for the referral Stephen! Much appreciated :)
Great quick diag straight to the problem .. In my profession ( commercial kitchen equipment ) my boss often quotes "parts canon" prices as in many cases it requires a lot of dissassembly and testing to correctly identify the faulty part.It sounds like he is trying to make big $$$ out of every job but he is honest and doesnt bill for unnecessary work or parts.. He says it's better to "quote high and bill low " than the opposite and we rarely fire the parts canon but sometimes it just works out that way. I'm no fan of dealerships but can sort of understand their parts canon method of quoting to cover their own backsides if shit does happens and a huge unexpected bill occurs.
Understandable. But in this case the customer took the car in for a diagnosis, which was clearly not performed 😅
Ivan you twisted my arm and talked me into buying the scanner. It helps that I also had $200 gift card from my tool purchase 1 hour prior.
Pretty disappointing the Hyundai dealership wanted to fire the parts cannon at it. You'd think with their experience they've likely seen this issue with the shifter more than once. Then again, I'd better not assume the dealership is knowledgeable and/or honest.
With their experience they know replacing the shifter assembly, key barrel, and probably some com. Module will fix the problem, they are not concerned nor skilled enough to actually diagnose the issue.
Dealerships can't keep experienced mechanics because they don't pay them enough. Most open their own shops. Dealers are good at tearing things apart and putting them together basically because they have all the diagrams and parts there. A monkey could work as a mechanic at a dealership.
Hard to tell what was actuslly said
. More than likely it was mote like could be x, y, or z with parts taking awile since no diagnosis was done. It could have been any of the things mentioned. Really sad did not dig deeper. Chances are minor issue to fix right rsther than the bush fix.
@@markmckinley5989 In Ivan's defense, he gets a lot of liability shit in the comments any time he touches a safety switch. And I guarantee its a $900 part for a key lock feature the owner doest care about. But yes, I agree, I wanted to see him dig into the gear selector.
I don't care how good the deal is, I don't use Amazon anymore. Good job on the diagnosis.
LOL those evil big corporations!
i had a car that let you remove the key whenever, perfectly safe. didn't have a remote start, so when i needed to clear snow off it, i would start it up, lock the doors with key in hand, and didn't have to worry about someone jacking my car when i was scraping the snow off.
Great fast diagnostic! Dealerships fire the parts cannon because they don't care and they don't need to think, but mostly, it make$ for hefty invoice$.
The wiring diagram for the win!
Good call Ivan on this vehicle!
Great deal on the Thinktool Pro! I just bought one but have not had time to start playing with it....yet. Glad you have one, as I hope I can learn much from you using yours!
Intresting video. It shows that some problems it's easy to fix as temporary to your own car but don't do it for your friend etc. Same as home electric or water installations.
I dont know about that Kia, but for some vehicles, the selector/Park switch mounting is slightly adjustable. If that was the case with this car, it could be a parts-less repair.
Depending on the price of the gear stick, a lot of us would probably just ground the wire
I was thinking that you route the wire to a secret button under the dash or something easy to reach. If someone steals your car, they won't be able to get the key out. lol
@@calholli maybe
Thanks I use this vehicle to show the mechanic what the problem was
Nice!
I appreciate you solving these safety switch shifter problems. Go ahead and do the Freedom "Russian" repair off camera. I won't tell!
I like the house calls best.
I had a similar problem recently with my 2012 Elantra. The problem was a malfunctioning solonide that sits on the steering column near the ignition key switch. This solonide prevents you from removing the key if the gear shift is not in the park position. In my case the damaged solonoid couldn't sense that the shifter was in park. My tempory work around was to disconnect the solonoid and the key came out.
I would ground that wire through a momentary switch so you press the switch while taking the key out :)
Nice Ivan! I purchased the think tool pros about a year ago based on a lot of comparative research and, mostly, what I saw it could do through you, and I am SO HAPPY I did! It is a wonderful tool and far exceeds scanners worth 400% more money (like snap on, which I also have), especially when it comes to euros. I do use the VCDS for Audi and vw often as well, but the think tool is on a pretty good plane with it even as well!
On another note, perhaps of value to your customer, I had a very similar issue on a ‘15 Hyundai veloster a couple years ago (push button start mind you), but it was the same thing in that when you tried to turn the vehicle off it would stay in accessory. On that one, there was I little sense switch (worth about $8 CAD) that the “smart key module” (that may not be what it was called… my memory is a touch foggy with it being a couple years ago) put 8v out to and it had to see it pulled to ground when the vehicle was in park to turn the car off. The little switch was gummed up from pop or something being spilled down the console. I could have just cleaned it likely, but changed it so I didn’t have to ever go back in there to fix it again. I only mention it in case it would be worth a look in there to see if it’s a similar set up.
Ps the crazy thing on the veloster was that this switch input was not related to what the tcm, and by communication, what the pcm saw for shifter position - they read PARK; and there wasn’t a pid on my snap on scanner for it; and there was no codes to go along with it… I found it by pouring through wiring diagrams! The dealer parts manager had never heard of or sold the switch before, and I wasn’t the first tech to take a stab at it! It was a feel good moment I tell ya!!
Thanks for the great vids man!✌️
That's awesome! Yup separate input to the TCM thankfully :)
Did you check to see if the bracket on the shifter cable is adjustable or bent? I have seen several situations where the sensor got moved or the cable got pulled and bent the tab so that it wouldn't effectively register that it was in park and a quick adjustment corrected the issue. Since he was manhandling the shifter to get the key out at least for a while I would be willing to bet something got tweaked. Awesome video though.
See this issue with early Mazda CX-5 and Mazda 6 albeit with push button start, ignition stays in accessory mode and radio stays on. Shifter switch is replaceable itself, no need for the entire shifter assembly.
I have a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (STOP LAUGHING!!!). GM must have known their design could fail, because right next to the shift lever in the console, there is a little rubber plug. When the key won't release, you can remove the plug and press a little lever with a screwdriver. How convenient! Especially when a police officer observed me with a screw driver in hand, inside the vehicle....
got the same issue wit my gtp, but gotta love them
You could also put a momentary switch to ground that way you have to push a button like you do with a manual car to remove the key
So if I don’t know what I’m doing, I’m going to need to take it to a mechanic and wait weeks for the part come in 😂
Yes and then pay for the wrong part and still have a broken car 🤣🤣
Ivan, you've come up with a new name for the company, henceforth it shall be known as Helpless Hyundai.
l m autos just done a porsch with similar problem also diagnose dan did a vw golf dsg and vw does a cheap part to get around the problem keep up the good work ivan
Great job on finding the problem. So there's no way to fix the shifter without replacing it?????
He’s got the pine hollow pollo. Man
I was thinking that he could just route a simple push button to ground --- so whenever he wants to pull the keys, he could just push the button; but I actually like permanently grounding the wire, even better. No parts required-- You gotta love it... I just wonder if it's going to affect some other operation that we're not thinking of -- like preventing the reverse lights from coming on, ect. ?? Not sure
he could ground it through handbrake switch
@@jackiemay9471 I like it.. Some of them don't even have any switches on the handbrake though.
Hi Ivan,
All you need to do really, is replace the microswitches.
Available at most parts houses.
Larry
Nice job Ivan! Good deal on that scanner! Wish I could afford it. Thank you!
All it need is a micro switch. Start saving them from used shifter assemblies and use the one for the manual shifter section. Also you can get them from any child play toy or baby Walker's.
I had a Nissan Pickup truck do the same thing after a minor accident. I had to push forward and hold the shifter to get the key out. The park switch needed adjusting.
The issue is the knob!!!! Pull the knob off and you will be able to remove key. Super common problem. I used to be a Hyundai tech
So he needs a new knob?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics yes. New knob is the fix
I'm surprised you didn't check the ground. maybe its just a broken ground the 5v is a bleed thru voltage
Thanks Ivan!
I would take it back to the dealership to show them the actual problem. It may help the next guy if they gain some experience. But you'd think 15 minutes on a standard trouble shooter flowchart would have lead them to the same place. Maybe they just didn't want to fix it that day. Where I work (non-automovtive field) people train how to use the tool. What needs to be trained is how to work through the logic of the process.
Just guessing here but I feel confident that you could remove that shifter and replace whatever micro switch has failed on the shifter. In other news, I had a 2005 Cadillac STS and it was one of GM's first cars with not just keyless ignition but it was standard on all cars. Anyway the cars were known for having a problem similar to this that necessitated the replacement of the shifter assembly. The purpose for my comment is two fold. 1) It knew something was wrong, unlike this Hyundai. 2) I always laugh when today's economy cars approach the complexity of yesterday's luxury cars.
Could you explain how exactly to ground that wire please?
Man, I would love to have the Thinktool scanner, but I only work on my personal stuff. I have an older Snap-on Solus which is hit and miss, a Thinktool dongle again hit and miss, a outdated Snap-on Modis I use for the lab scope when I need one, like when my Jeep was jerking on acceleration and found the ground to engine from body was left loose. If I could justify it, I'd buy it.
Have a 2007 Saturn that does not let you click to 1st position when in gear, have a 2015 Mercedies that parks it automatically. Have a 2017 Promaster that has no interlock and the number of times it was in drive and rolls is once every few days on a road trip or just leave it in drive on a flat surface and find out when trying to start later. So there are vehicles without this feature, probably a truck loophole, and yes it is dangerous and I would prefer if the truck had the feature. Because you spend so much time in cars that force/auto you into park subliminally you are not thinking about the gear shifter 100% of the time.
I've seen a similar issue before as I'm sure you have too sometimes if a drink containing sugar gets spilled on or in the shifter it can cause the switch to misbehave
We have a 2017 Acadia Denali had the same problem , it was 2 sensor's in the shift assembly and had both of them replaced problem solved . G. M. Knew about this issue but choose not to recall any auto's
GRACIAS POR EL VIDEO, YO TENGO UN HYUNDAI SONATA 2011 Y TENGO ESE DETALE DE LA LLAVE QUE TENGO QUE MOVER LA PALANCA VARIAS VECES ASTA QUE SUELTA Y CON ESTO YA MAS O MENOS ME DA UNA IDEA MR. PINE HOLLOW
Very nice explanation and information 👌
The Thinktool Pros discount is only available in the US not Canada
also if switch in shifter assembly can be replace i suspect maybe bent contact finger or worn out finger
I'm surprised the dealer didn't propose muffler bearings while coming up with an expensive list of parts.
If it was my car ... I would say ground it! .... LOL, great video as always
Great diag as usual! Thanks for sharing Ivan.
Great diag..... As for shift assembly, 'pick and pull'?
or you could get the shifter assembly at junkyard providing it pass the switch test with conuitiy tester
On my mom's old car you could remove the ignition key while the car was running.... which was convenient if you just started the car and needed something out of the trunk.
Any day you get a Hyundai that isn’t a complete engine replacement it’s a good day!
Hey, Ivan! When do you find time to play golf??? 😂
Thanks for another awesome video.
Nice diagnosis. I love my Thinktool Pros which I bought on your recommendation last year. I got mine during a sale as well. It's a great tool and has greatly helped me already.
Good job my dear friend
I used to have a cavalier that the key could be pulled out in any position. It's was perfectly fine.
IVAN:
You are amazing..
If you run out of ideas for vids I'll suggest one, focused on accumulating electronic/electric test support equipment:
(-1-) Scanner (ThinkTool ProS)
(-2-) Multimeter (probably not critical as any should suffice)
(-a-) ohms
(-b-) volts
(-c-) amps
(-d-) ¿diode check?
(-3-) Test light collection
(-a-) lighted screwdriver like handle
(-b-) various tungsten bulbs with leads
(-i-) 10 amp
(-ii-) 5 amp
(-iii-) 2 amp
(-iv-) 1 amp
(-4-) clamp-on current meter
(-5-) TEST LEADS
(-a-) insulation piercing
(-b-) backshell inserting
(-c-) long distance (radiator to tail pipe)
(-d-) connector pin fitting for BOTH male/female
(-e-) cigarette lighter adapter for cabin access to BOTH power/ground
(-6-) circuit breaker temporary substitute for fuse
(-7-) relay extension connector for pin access
O-T-H-E-R
?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?
Great diagnostic!
Hi Ivan,wondering how you get all the wiring diagram every car on your laptop?so complete.
Hey 👋 Ivan.
As always, you’re doing a very amazing job. I admire you for that knowledge that you have. God bless you.
And also a couple questions for you. Thinktool and x431 pro3s+ are the same? And between both which one would you pick?
Moral of the story: There is little to no skill at dealerships because they don't pay mechanics enough and will hire anyone with an ASE cert. Find a reliable, skilled mechanic who can find the problem quickly and gets straight to the point.
Hi Ivan, those subs and visitors can chew ya up and spit you out for sure if they catch ya doing something out of the norm. I’m sure more then a few of them got chewd for making mistakes themselves. I got my fair share of it working under someone else. Any ways, good observation on your part Ivan.
What did the customer do in the end Ivan? Great vlog.
Grounded the wire with a paper clip "temporarily"... The most reliable solution 😁👍
Ground it for sure, the lock cylinder should prevent the key from being removed when in Accessory and runs, so who cares if you can remove the key when it’s off even if it’s in gear, that’s how most older cars work anyway.
Can you please explain how to ground that wire.. Thank you.. @jayp1013
@jayp1013
I wonder if they released an updated key solenoid and that's why the dealers included it in the repair. maybe a revision added a diode/capacitor embedded to eliminate arcing at the switch.
I'm assuming the switch is worn and contacts arc pitted, since it's directly making/breaking power to a solenoid. the ecm/bcm would be protected internally, leaving the poor switch to get clobbered.
then again, maybe something else isn't letting the switch close, worn/cracked (un-fantastic)plastic or knob/release button spring? if it was my own vehicle, I'd possibly go digging into the shifter assembly, then again, bypassing isn't off the menu or rigging it off a brake switch(brake light output) and use a small relay in place of that switch.
but the module may have feedback sensing and that could possibly whack the car out. overthinking it again. lol
Take a look at the diagram again... The park switch carries almost no current... It just grounds the sense wire 😉
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics guess I didn't look that close, could have sworn it was in series in the middle. lol
they may still have something silly done.
Grounding that wire will cause the computer to assume its in park and in in drive, best to disable the key solenoid
That's another option :)
How would you disable the key solenoid? .. Thank you.
Again !!!! IVAN IS THE MAN 👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for the upload Ivan
Obviously the *first* thing I would have checked would have been the switch in the shifter assembly..... 😉
Great work Iven
Couldn't wire in external relay? I had the same problem with S-10 blazer, floor shift. Not column shift. Replace the entire shift assembly, or wire in a relay? Shift assembly discontinued from dealer. So relay it is.
That shifter etc should last forever, remember the column shifts !!
The shifter is fine-- they've just built another layer of electronics and interlocks on top of the mechanical linkages-- that aren't necessary and don't need to be there.
Just started watching. I'm gonna guess shift cable not putting car in park?
If I wouldn't have bought a van for $2300, I could have afforded this! Ironically, the check engine light is on!