Ultrasonic Cleaners - Tips and Tricks
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2021
- Ultrasonic cleaners, a tutorial for watchmakers (hobby watchmakers)
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Which to buy and how to use them as a professional watchmaker.
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Look through the eyes of a watchmaker and share the passion of Kalle!
Tutorial on watch repair by watchmaker Kalle Slaap from Chronoglide, Vintage Watch repair specialists near Amsterdam. Watchmaking documentary.
How to become a watchmaker. Where do i learn to become a watchmaker / Horloger.
Cleaning watchparts, cleaning machine, Elma, Greiner, Vibrasonic
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Damn. That last demonstration saved my next project 😮
it is the implosion of the bubble created by the ultrasound that produced those holes, not vibration
I just purchased an ultrasonic and plann on using it on the watches I’ve been collecting over my 55 years as well as jewellery and other delicate collectibles. I watched a dozen or so TH-cam videos for research, instruction and helpful tips. This video is hands-down the very best on TH-cam. Clear, concise and very professional. You are an expert in your field and your communication is impeccable. Thank you very much for an excellent ultrasonic tutorial.
Thank you so much for your kind words Joey!
From Vacheron Constantin website:
“CLEANING THE COMPONENTS
All of the movement’s parts undergo ultrasonic cleaning in a special bath.”
From Rolex website:
“Cleaning of the components
Each component is cleaned in an ultrasonic bath to remove all traces of impurities.”
Just something I found when I was doing research on ultrasonic cleaning when I was trying to find a watch cleaning machine that isn’t wildly overpriced 😊
These are the first pots in the Greiner ACS900 cleaning machines for watchparts. Far less intens than the ultrasonic baths for bracelets and case parts. Nice to hear from you. All the best for the new year! Kalle
Difficult one as from a hobbyist perspective when they (and how I) start they can’t justify £400 for a used cleaning machine and the £100 for the cleaning fluids.
What you have to take into consideration is that what is hobbyists buy is cheap low end ultrasonic. Mine is 2ltr and not very powerful but it serviced me well for 3 years until I had the opportunity to purchase a cleaning machine .
Granted fatigue is a potential issue but using paper tin foil against a price of stainless is not comparable in my opinion.
This is also why I tend to recommend to new starters to just buy the cheap cleaners.
If a hobbyist could only use pro equipment there would be no hobbyists.
Main complaints I see is spring winders and cleaning machines being too far out of reach for them.
This is a professional watchmaking establishment, they've got 2 cleaning machines, 1 for the filthiest movements and then they go into the 2nd, the 2nd is for the not so soiled movements, I suspect putting a clients vintage watch into a Ultrasonic probably frowned appon, although it happens in other places, I use my one for my DE Razors and vape equipment and watch straps and cases.
We do have a pre-rinse machine as well John, especially for clients who tried to revive their pocket watch with WD40 ;o(
I agree there is a gray area for Ultrasonic cleaners and movement parts.
@@kingsford73 it is but I don’t think many other professionals are watching .
On average I clean about one watch a week, by hand . I think each part has for more attention and care cleaning this way. I have always thought that the initial cost and running costs of a cleaning machine are way above my needs and I believe I would have to be servicing a lot more watches per day/week to justify those costs, then If I were doing that amount of movements would it be a hobby ? I have toyed with the idea of purchasing an ultrasonic, now I am so glad I did not , so thank you Kalle for that information
Thank you once again Kalle on a great informative video! I look forward to many more.
Thank you very much for this the most informative video on TH-cam. After I watched it - I have no more questions about us bath.
Looks like an elma kali good make and good cleaner
Wonderful. Precise. Thank you.
It is real enjoyable to watch your videos.
Ha. It took me a few minutes to figure out he was saying jam jar, not gem jar. I still say "tin foil" even though we've used aluminum for foil since the late 1940s.
Cool vid & tips, thanks for your insight
Thank you , informative especially the delicate parts information and the aluminum foil disintegrating saved me from disaster. Cheers 🍻
totally agreed here sir… thanks for the nice video. … very straight forward .
Excellent video!
Thank you for your kind words and support Shawn!
Not gonna lie....... Half the reason I watch this, is for the absolutely badass intro
Short of having a watch cleaning machine, what I have been doing is putting the parts in small ultrasonic baskets (the brass ones with stainless steel mesh) and putting those into a jar filled with Naptha (lab grade not lighter fluid) and then putting the sealed jars inside the Ultrasonic cleaner that has been filled with water. I run the parts for 20-30 minutes at 50°C. I then quickly dip the baskets in 99% IPA to rinse off the Naptha. Not as good as a dedicated watch cleaning machine such as an Elma but a helluva lot cheaper.
Hello Sir thank you for this good advice. I always enjoy your videos because I'm a really amateur hobbywatchmaker. Best regards and stay all health and happy. B
Greatl video as always.. now I found new way to recycle ♻️ my beer cans 😀
thanks again for your info. I learn something new with every video. You mention not using water based cleaners, but then that gets expensive for hobbyists. And clean up is a bit difficult with solvents too. As a hobbyist workin in my living room and garage I use the Zenith water concentrate for cleaning, with 2 water bath rinses and a quick IPA dip right into the dryer. So far it has worked, and then I can clean things up in the sink. With solvent based cleaners the clean up and disposal can get more complicated.
I'm working on new video's about watch part cleaning for all budgets. Ready withing a few weeks!
I'm always getting "banned" for correcting and attempting to reinforce that it's "Strap or Bracelet, there are no Bands!", You've done a fine PSA for that! :)
At the end, watch cleaning machines also apply some force to the movement parts, the centrifugal force.
Maybe it is worth it that once you put a piece of those foils in a cleaning machine and see if it also deforms it or not.
I would think that the watch Parts would also be rubbing against the metal baskets used in cleaning machines right?
Hi Kalle, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. an the watch case be cleaned in the ultrasonic, with the crystal in place? Are plexiglass and mineral crystals ok in the ultrasonic?
Great video. Thanks for sharing! What would be the best cleaning solution to make out of household stuff to use inside the ultrasonic cleaner to get your watch bands as clean as possible?
Thank you for this, but please - help me understand this. All high end cleaning machines are with ultrasonic. The best ELMA Solvex VA is ultrasonic+spining, as well Greiner ACS900, Lititz Freedom, Wellner L2, L&R Tempo 400 and many L&R from the past. They have ultrasonic in one or more basket(cleaning and sometimes for rinse too)
I see what you did there with piece aluminium but there is no aluminum used in watch movements. Piece was ultra thin, and aluminium isn't springy in any way, it will more likely crack than bend. Where is a connection between real application and your experiment besides maybe some super super old movements that shouldn't be machine cleaned anyway as some plating might flake ?
Also, you mentioned water based cleaning solutions and that they are not that great. Both Elma and Greiner are suggesting use of water based cleaners, you just need to rinse them at the end with some kind of degreaser like ipa/lighter fluids.
Thanks again,
Some really nice conversations going on here. I am thoroughly enjoying it please keep up the good work everyone!
We are all enjoying the conversations Shawn ;O)
Thank you for all your videos. They are the best! One question: wouldn’t a cleaning machine be as bad as the ultrasound process to fragile parts?
If you buy one, look at the ultrasonic frequency. The lower the frequency the more effective. Another misconception is that ultrasonic cleaners are non-abrasive. Also this is on the micro level not true. The ultrasonic waves are creating micro bubbles, these bubbles than again will hit the the surface of the object to clean, which than releases the dirt on the object. As the aluminium foil test shows....it's not for delicate parts and it shows also that it is abrasive even though on a micro level. The ultrasonic detergents are lowering the surface pressure, but in my experience just 1 -2 drops of regular dish-washing detergent does that trick as well. Just don't use the ones with lemon in it as this is more agressive and don't use too much or you'll have a dishwasher:-)
Good point that most of us don’t need a powerful machine. I’d say any unit that’s made for eye glasses is “weak” enough even for plex crystals. I’m going to test it and post my results.
The aluminium wafer is soft metal than brass or steel. Watches parts are made of steel, brass, chromium or hard metals. correct me if I am wrong. The microscopic particle from mechanical parts movement or aged lubrication in deep bushes, grooves or jewels won't wipe out without ultrasonic vibration. Even cleaning machines or brush wash cannot reach there. Water alcohol compound masturbation can.
My ultrasonic bath likes to destroy setting lever springs and some click springs on budget watches. Guess it is a good test to find out if the material is "naked" and will brake any time soon after servicing :)
I have been wondering about this with the ultrasonic for movement parts, for a while, I saw someone lowering his (movement parts washing machine) baskets loaded full of movement parts, right into another aluminium basket container, in his ultrasonic cleaner. The horror... Well thank you for clearing that up for me :)
Hi Kale! What you're showing is an USM for cases and bracelets. But there are very few professional USMs for cleaning movements and parts. Those USMs supplied with several SS bins and baskets with even smaller baskets on them. And that machines constructed and intended specifically for movements cleaning.
You are right Azamat, there is a gray area, but i wanted to show the force of some machines.
With the aluminum foil demonstration, since the fine teeth of the watch wheels ( 2nd wheel 3rd wheel etc ) are just that super fine I wonder if the cavitation process in the ultrasonic cleaner actually does damage those teeth ? Only way to know for certain is to test it on old weeks with a before and after magnified examination. I shall endeavor to do so and will post my results here. Again thank you for admonishing us .
Was going to buy ultrasonic for cleaning watch parts but now i might have to continue with all manual cleaning, Bensin and IPA.
The video about cleaning is there within the week! ;o)
@@ChronoglideWatchmaking nice :)
I let the case, bracelet, etc. soak in warm water with washing up liquid and then I go over them with a soft dense toothbrush. Works well and is inexpensive.
Hi, I've just picked this hobby up just under 12 months. I use an ultrasonic but then have the cleaning liquids in jars with mini baskets for the parts that sit on a plastic plate inside the ultrasonic. I find that it works when I only set each clean time for 10-15mins. If there is any further tips to help, I would appreciate it. I don't put the balance or pallet fork in it.
Thank you very much for this upload Kalle.
I just bought an ultrasonic machine for... guess what... Cleaning Movement Parts!! After watching the aluminium test, I think I should take your advice 👍
Would you consider doing a video of how to clean movement parts for those of us on a budget and what fluids/materials to use?
Thanks again and have a great weekend 😊👍
Hi Tony, i'll be making the video about cleaning watchparts this weekend. For every budget!
@@ChronoglideWatchmaking THANK YOU 😎😆
What about chrome plated cases? Is it save to put them in a ultrasonic cleaner?
What are your views on using the ultrasonic cleaners for some of the tougher parts of the movement such as barrel, mainspring, plates and keyless works?
Can the ultrasonic damage the bezel detail?
Where is the video about cleaning watch movements? Thanks great video.
It is in the pipeline.
@@ChronoglideWatchmaking i'm also waiting to the video.
Very interesting. That change a lot for me . I thinked about to buy a Ultrasonic for movement parts but now i saw its the wrong way. How you clean movement parts? At moment i use a old elektrik toothbrush with a small plexi glas on it for cleaning movement parts . Whats the right way to clean ?
We are working on a series of watchpart cleaning in great detail. Coming soon!
Hi Kalle!
Herman! Leuk je ook hier te zien.
how about for cleaning a whole watch? i.e. a dive watch certified for 300 or 600 metres, is there any harm t putting it whole into the basket? effectively you're just cleaning the bracelet and case exterior.
Always take the movement and dial out, the risk of damaging is way too big!
Another tip! Perhaps you mentioned it and I missed it. Often times watch cases will have numbers or markers milled into the bezel and black paint or antiquing paint in those recesses. This black finish comes off quickly in the ultrasonic and should be hand-cleaned. I keep a bottle of Vigor Antique Black Background Paint for when I see a soft, black number 3 floating in the bath rather than stuck on the bezel.
The same hand-washing should be done for cases and components with anything painted. Occasionally watches may have painted inner bezels (between the dial and crystal).
OK, you nicely explained that the ultrasonic cleaner is good for larger parts such as cases, bracelets etc., but I didn't hear what is used to clean the more delicate parts. Did I miss something? Maybe is there a difference between a watch cleaning machine and a USC? Please clarify. I like your your shows.
There is a three part video about cleaning watch parts, hope it is helpful. th-cam.com/video/t7B49pEuymk/w-d-xo.html
Hi Kalle! I wish I didn't have to sleep. My old noisy ultrasonic machine suddenly stopped being noisy. It still seems to be cleaning OK, but I was hoping to find out why it started running so quiet. Is it preparing to cross over to the great beyond?
In this video i show a cool trick to test your Ultrasonic cleaner. Few more hours patience Chris! ;o)
Hello Kalle, I see you were going to make a video on the best way to clean watch parts without a cleaning machine. Any update on when you will have that ready? I think it would help a lot of us!
I'm still waiting too.
@@clydedenby1436 Me three.
What are the cleaning agents used?
I proves to be a challenging video to make, but coming up soon!
is this the 3L size for the ultrasonic?
Yes it is, might even be 3.5l. For me quite big enough.
@@ChronoglideWatchmaking Sounds great! dankjewel for the reply!
The centrifugal forces of a watch cleaning machine make all the parts in the baskets constantly bang against one another and the basket itself. In a USC, most of the parts will never even touch. And let's not forget that one literally has to use a hammer to fit some watch parts (balance wheel and staff, for example), so they are far from being as delicate as a chocolate wrapper 😂
How would a hobbiest clean watch parts without spending the money on an expensive cleaning machine?
This weekend i'll be making the video David. For every budget watch part cleaning.
@@ChronoglideWatchmaking Thank you for your channel. Great content, really looking forward to it.
For years I used a 1 cup L&R Ultrasonic machine, Ottosonic concentrate soap, using almost boiling water in the cold ultrasonic mix, and a warm then cold water bath. Then tea balls, some with a finer mesh screen inside for really tiny tiny parts that would fall thru the screen. I looped twisties over the balls and suspended them from a stick in the fluid. timed 3 minutes in the bath, rinsed twice in water, dipped in alcohol, and put over a makeshift dryer, gently shaking them every 30 se or so while washing the next tea ball. It was slow, but worked out great. Then at the end I cleaned up the 1 cup of soap and little cleaner and put it away.
@@ChronoglideWatchmaking I cannot wait to see this as I am just starting out and desperately struggling right now with the cleaning aspect as where I am a) supplies of cleaning solutions are totally unavailable and backlogged b) now after seeing this I am left scratching my head how I can afford to clean my watch mechanisms and not destroy them with an ultrasonic.
If you are confident in the water-resistance of your watch and do not wish to disassemble the bracelet, an old toothbrush and gentle, soapy water or windex works excellent. Rinse with room-temperature water afterwards and avoid using the crown/pushers for a while until it is dry. I would remove leather straps from the case as windex and water can damage the leather.
I've yet to checkout this channel's video on budget cleaning, but that's my two cents.
why did you not degas the liquid before use?
I was taught to degas the liquid before cleaning for more efficient cleaning.
Yep. I forgot to mention that, thank you for your excellent comment!
@@ChronoglideWatchmaking i was confused that it was not mentioned but now my confusion is gone! thanks for the reply! :)
why didn’t you put ‘watch parts’ in, and not a piece of aluminium foil? If damage can be evidenced, why not do that?
Often times the damage is incredibly difficult to film or detect, but can cause or accelerate wear and tear in the future.
I am really puzzled as Rolex on their site do describe that all watch (movement) parts are cleaned ultrasonic. The statement is made right ahead a photo with baskets full of watch parts.
There are cleaning machines like eg. the Greiner ACS-900 we have here, which have an ultrasonic module, but way less intense a the UIltrasonic machine i showed in this video. I'm making a clip about cleaning watch parts and will show you the difference. Coming up soon!
I think it is a matter of frequency which determines save or not save. Low frequency is "not save", high frequency is OK. So cheap machines with high frequency could be an alternative. Anyhow, great content.
Wrong Kalle I have a 1955 Watchmaster watch cleaner using for 20+ years and no broken or degraded parts-with a 5minuet pre clean in Napha everything sparkles. I is 100% ultrasonic with 200 watts at 42 kilocycles with 5minuet clean rinse cycles. And cost me $400.
You won't see me put watch movement parts in my one it's got 2 osalating units and would most definitely do damage.
I can be so aggressive John.
@@ChronoglideWatchmaking yes they can, I use my Ultrasonic cleaner for watch straps, watch cases, DE razors, even with the razors I've seen paint and the plating vanish. As with the watch movements the last time I checked they are made to the micron and won't like being vibrated to death. And then there's the pivets, having train gears dancing around in a Ultrasonic isn't going to do them any favours kinda risking bending/braking them I should no doubt.
Because I just got to see what damage my Ultrasonitc would/could /wouldn't do/ to watch movement parts I buzzed up a batch. The good news everything came out spotlessly clean and mostly undamaged, however there was a victim....... the pallet fork took a thrashing and the shellac holding the stones in place.............gone! So yes as predicted my Ultrasonic machine will do damage. Now don't worry about the movement it's ticking away quite happily now, as I have a stash of parts to replace things.
Ik gebruik al jaren een ultrasoon reiniger voor andere zaken. Maar ik heb ooit gehoord dat je er nooit veertjes in moet stoppen. De trilling kunnen de veerkracht aanpassen. Hoe sta jij hier in? Ik kan het natuurkundig niet onderbouwen.
The time that he said "wrist cheese" im consider for a deep clean..
Great video as always Kalle, but I think you've stirred the hornets nest
A video with saver alternatives is coming up Gareth!
You're not putting aluminum foil in ultrasonic cleaner. You're putting steel and brass and copper there's a huge difference ultrasonic cleaners are just fine for cleaning watches just as many other parts aluminum. The bubbles that an ultrasonic cleaner makes to clean the parts is called cavitation. Cavitation is mini explosions in the water. Because aluminum foil is so thin and soft those cavitations can blow holes in the aluminum foil. yes I'm an engineer if it was such a problem they would not use ultrasonic cleaners when they rebuild aluminum blocks on engines. But nice try with your explanation
Cavitation can destroy giant ship propellers. So of course tiny cavitation bubbles can be detrimental to the long-term longevity of crucial components.
I would think an engineer would know better.
@@rustyration Really. So all types of cavitation are the same then? Thats what you are saying? If its not okay for watch parts, then why are all companies that produce watch cleaning machines incorporating ultrasonic cleaning into their machines? In fact ultrasonic cleaning has been incorporated in those machines for a looong time since back when they used tubes to produce the ultrasonic frequencies. Oh I know... Those people who design watch cleaning machines don't know what they are doing... right? If it damages watch parts, please show an example of a part that has been damaged due to ultrasonic cleaning. I'll wait.
The intensity may vary between the hardware that is being used. I try to raise awareness and help watchmakers in their profession. Thank you for your comment Timothy, it is indeed a very interesting subject!
It's weird, I've had parts in the ultrasound cleaning machine come out full of pits on the surface
Great video!
Cheers Sarkis!