A few people have mentioned that actresses should be given time to get used to their corsets before filming, especially on big productions where there is time for sword fight training, workout regimes, etc. I agree this would help A Lot, but unfortunately just because the prep time for a film is very long, it doesn't mean that the costumes are ready to go at the beginning of that process. Costumes are often not finished until right before filming for a particular scene starts. Actresses may have a bit of power in the initial design of the character/costume (a la Emma Watson's "MY Belle doesn't wear a corset"), but they do not have the power to demand that expensive costumes be given to them to take home weeks before filming starts - the corset probably isn't finished yet, and even if it is there is too much risk that it would get damaged or lost. So yes, it would be very helpful (and I do hope it starts happening), but it would require a pretty big change in the way film productions operate.
Even giving them a modern off-the-rack corset before the official costume piece is ready would go a long way to get them used to moving, sitting, and eating in one.
in theatre, we tend to use rehearsal costume pieces later in the process to ready performers for the real bulky skirts, wacky shoes, or otherwise restricting garments. i wonder if that might be a good solution
Actors and actresses often spend weeks if nit months training for stunts and fight scenes and longer prepairing physical aspects of their body to gain muscle or gain and lose weight. Although their fitted, on screen corset may not be ready, I think there should be some foresight in making sure an actor or actress can practice and train for something like a corset. If they have to wear it for the show or film, then they should be given the time to acclimate to it or else all the time training to do some stunt could be wasted because the actress isnt used to the corset. Giving them time to get a feel for the costume could also help the actor or actress give feedback to the designer making the final product. "This corset has this bit right here that digs into my back when I do this thing." Could be valuable feedback.
You have entirely missed the point of the whole argument. Literally everyone that I watched that has criticized actresses and industry for demonizing corsets has made clear that this is not about the actresses but about the misogyny behind depictions of corset use and that is boils down to historical, sexist, or comfort reasons. A couple of memes making fun of modern corset attitudes is not gaslighting. This whole video comes a "holier than thou", "woker than you" kind of discourse.
100%! While it is important to raise the standard of care of everyone on a film set, irrespective of their gender or job, actresses get a notoriously bad experience.
Chucking someone who's never worn a corset into an unseasoned corset and having them work all day is a recipe for a bad time so no wonder they hate them.
THIS!!! Also, imagine your job. Imagine doing your job for 10... 12... 16 hours. Not fun, right? Now imagine doing your job in a brand new type of clothing that you've never worn before. Even less fun. And if that clothing is an unseasoned corset, that's a barrel full of "no fun".
if they do want to put them in a corset I feel like they should let them know immediately they're casted & get them their own personal corset so they can get used to corsets on their own time before filming and rehearsal starts. could be wishful thinking but oh well
Especialy if it is cut to look good instead of fitting right, comfortable bone placement and even more so if the actress is not "educated" on it and worries about it. Thinking you can not breath is all that is needed to not being able to breath and that you have to change where you breath wearing a corset really does not help . . . I do physical labor in my corsets and even if they are not broken in, they never give me trubble, but they are both fitted to my messures and use patterns, that are ment for reguar wear. I had the time to start slow and figure out what works. I love mine, they are coezy But things like laceing uneven or to tight, bones that mesh unpleasently with your own, the corset coming up to high or to low, not wearing a chemise beneith, not putting the laces away properly and having them dig in . . . jet again, worrying about it and therefore carrying tension . . . there are so many causes of potential discomfort.
@@Luubelaar If you know what you are doing its ok, but everyone has different threshholds there. Anticipating that it will be bad pretty much ensures, that it will be. Fighting your corsett could very well turn unpleasent and even painful I can imagine. Thinking you can not breath is all that is needed for you to struggle getting air, breathing in the direction you are used to being restricted understandably making it worse. I wear my corsets right after getting them all day for my physicly strainious job, no problem. But before I started that, I already owned a waist corset I wore occasionaly, so while the shifting breath is different for fullbust and waist corsets, the concept itself was already knowen to me and I had a feeling for how to lace so it fits properly. I had no discomfort at all, but being thrust into it, having all those nightmare tales in mind with no clue how to move in a corset and neither being provided with the right guidance or undergarment . . .
@@AB-gf4ue ok, I just wanted to make sure I understood what you where saying. Because it sounds contradicting but at the same time doesn't because your using your experience. That's all.
This reminds me of a tweet I saw a year or two ago. Kim Kardashian was quoted in an interview saying that the corset she had to wear for her wet t-shirt met gala look made her feel pain worse than childbirth. A stage actress retweeted the article, saying that she did 8 shows a week singing and dancing in a corset, basically invalidating Kim's pain. But the difference is that the actress wore a corset specifically designed to be able to sing and dance in, while Kim's corset was designed to cinch her waist to an insane level, for a work of avante garde art. It wasn't the same. I admit that I also fell into the trap of discrediting actresses who complain abt corsets. But we all need to be a bit more compassionate, and yknow, believe women.
Kim Kardashian also has psoriatic arthritis, which I think a lot of people forget about because of all the intense work she puts into presenting the image that she does. I absolutely believe that it hurt that badly! You're right, compassion is so important. You never know what people are going through!
@@dallypurcy3113 Sexism in the drag community is a HUGE issue, I agree. But saying “most” drag queens feel that way about corsets or heels seems...misleading
You nailed it. Spent quite a few years as a professional actor and have worn costumes on stage and on film sets. There is a huge difference between the stage and a film in that stage costume really has to be wearable for the long term, night after night every day of the week for however long the show runs. A film set or a photo shoot doesn’t have to be comfortable because once you’ve got the shots in the can that costume is toast. So there are very uncomfortable situations costume-wise - not alone in every other way - with a film set that is necessarily not true for the stage. I’ve seen costumes taped and pinned and glued just to get through a shoot. The other huge thing is that young actors are not - I repeat not - taught how to wear period costume. Hell, most young men (actors or not) can’t tie a simple necktie and that’s a contemporary article of clothing. Moving a gown with a train for the ladies or for the gentlemen -wearing a Roman toga? This require specialized experience and knowledge. Spoiler: even the Romans complained about men who couldn’t wear the toga correctly. Seriously even a Roman senator had a slave whose job was specifically to make sure his master’s toga looked fabulous at all times. (He was called a togator.)
Yes, absolutely! Thank you for this! My experience is all on the making side of things rather than the acting side, but I prefer making theatre costumes over film costumes for exactly this reason - it’s just nicer making things that are intended to last. I can definitely imagine they’re nicer to wear too. I can’t believe I forgot to talk about that with all the rambling I managed to do while filming. Thank you for your insight, and I love that even the Romans struggled with togas!
I think it definitely depends on the production and the budget and who's in charge. Film costumes often should be able to endure a fair amount especially because depending on the production there are often more variables to take in to account. Also on film a pin or some glue is much more likely to be noticed. Sounless it was for an extra or something that doesn't sound like it was a great idea. Depending on the film and costume film costumes aren't always made for comfort albeit but they should be able to endure a lot because of many reasons. Stunt people may have to wear identical costumes. The actors might do some small stunts or they might just have to be outside in different terrain or have staging that involves a lot movement. It should be able to endure at least a couple hours of this. There are many reasons why costumes for film need to be made to last especially when the audience is much closer and can see if something is not made well and is falling apart. Basically it's not always comfortable but it should be able to endure a lot. I will admit I am not a professional, I am only an aspiring costume designer and a pretty skilled seamstress. (I hate to sound full of myself, especially as I'm not yet professionally trained (I've applied to college for that and will start learning professionally and getting to focus most of my time and energy on it next year), but I have made multiple historical pieces often with some supervision and guidance from my mentor over the last 8 years.) Also I have shadowed on sets and I have interned in the costume industry and know people in the industry including my parents. So I know how things work. Point is I'm not a professional yet but I am still pretty knowledgeable about this. I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my brain is a mess.
@@madisonm.4535 Just keep in mind pins etc. are only more likely to be noticed if they are in the shot! When I was at film school a friend worked on an advertisement where one of the costumes was too big for the actor so they pinned it at the back when the actor was seen from the front, then hurriedly repinned for the next shot and so on!
@@jokiskywalker5417 Yup. Or the really common thing for the leads in a movie with a lot of action/weather activity, where there's 10+ versions of the same costume (with/without various marks or tears), so no one garment has to be versatile or particularly durable (especially the detailed ones for closeups). This is from interviews with people in charge of costumes for big ticket superhero films, and my observations as a casual extra.
Makes me think of Grease and Olivia Newton-John being sown into her tight leather pants. She couldn't even go to the bathroom. It not unheard of for Actors and Actresses doing harmful things to themselves for a part.
Instead of a suitcase, think of a fancy backpack. Sold guaranteed to be super comfortable. And then you walk 20 miles with 30kilos weight, and super comfortable takes on a new meaning.
I swear my arms were numb after a few long portages on one canoe trip I went on. That pack was fabulous, and my back was fine, but my shoulders and the soles of my feet ached. The canoe was also the lightest one I’ve ever seen, made of Kevlar and resin. I think that trip was a two week trip, I remember the feeling of the sensation returning to my arms to this day.
Or those hiking boots, that seemed to fit you like a gloove, but apparently weren't broken in quite well enough, after all. And oh, the fun of putting them on again the next morning, on your already sore and blistered feet. And yeah, any kind of backpack (no matter the weight) will hurt my back after a while. Despite doing strength training and all that. No idea, what the reason is, but the pain can become quite hellish. If wearing an ill-fitting or newly made corset is anywhere near as painful, I definitely sympathize. And then having to smile and act and look radiantly beautiful at the same time...🥴
@@raraavis7782If you find a lumbar pack or fanny pack with a padded hip belt, they can work for day hikes, they are usually meant to set the weight on your hip bones instead of having anything on your back or shoulders. That’s what I do for day hikes to avoid the numb hands.
The thing that annoys me the most is misinformation. It’s definitely true that wearing anything for 12 hours, you’re gonna notice any little thing even slightly uncomfortable. The problem is that unlike shoes or bras (which also get very uncomfortable after that length of time), corsets are newsworthy. They stand out. So they get the attention that other wardrobe items don’t. I’m also of the opinion that tight lacing occurs on set far too often. Not just scenes that depict tight lacing, but generally, whenever an actress is wearing a corset. I’ve also seen in some (though not all) films, corsets that don’t look quite right for the period. By which I mean that they might have been custom made, but to a more modern pattern rather than a period accurate pattern. And because a certain shape is expected, directors or other employees on set might then expect that shape to come from tight lacing, rather than patterning and padding- which although historically accurate, is not something I’ve seen much of in period films. I wouldn’t discount the experiences of actresses (though I would question how sensationalised their words were made after interviews). But I don’t think that films are treating actresses how they should. I’m not sure that enough period films have historical dress experts both in design and on set to make sure that things are done correctly, rather than done with a more modern (mis)understanding of how the clothing worked. That’s what I personally mean when I say things aren’t fit correctly or aren’t worn correctly. That maybe they’re not using the correct patterns, or using padding, or tight lacing, or all of the above. I also do get a little annoyed at actresses who were forced into very small, tight laced corsets (which isn’t their fault), but who then complain about how awful corsets are generally, and their terrible stomach pain.... after drinking a bunch of fizzy drinks while wearing said very constrictive corset. That is a bit frustrating. Though I grant that it’s possible that the interview on which this information was disseminated might have twisted her words? I hope so. But I do live in hope that all of the recent corset defending makes it to the wars of actresses, who are then empowered to demand that their bodies be treated with respect. Who demand well made, correctly fitting corsets that don’t injure them. Because they deserve that.
There’s definitely a lot more to it than I could have covered even in a video 3x as long. These are excellent points, thank you for taking the time to share them. I completely agree with you on tightlacing, I think it comes from most people having so little knowledge of corsets. It’s even happened to me on photo shoots where someone was helping the model get dressed and started yanking on the laces like they’d come straight out of “gone with the wind”... which is just totally unnecessary and uncomfortable. And there’s definitely a lot more that could be done in terms of accuracy and fit, though I would add that modern corsets can be as comfortable as historical ones (and give the right silhouette) when they’re fitted well. But I agree that a lot of what happens is probably how you’ve described - dressers thinking that the shape should come from yanking. Hopefully with all those myth busting videos the information will eventually trickle out to the general public. Though I do think most wouldn’t care one way or the other - uninformed but indifferent about it... But we can hope. I get annoyed about the generalisation of “all corsets are bad because mine was” too, but do feel for them as well if no one gave them the information they needed. I mean Keira Knightley worked as a “corset consultant” on “Colette”, rather than hiring someone with some actual corset experience, so I do feel that there must be a lot of misinformation just bouncing around between this little group. I do hope some of the info from corset makers and wearers starts to make its way to them so they can use it to inform their decisions, but I worry that it’s a double edged sword - if a video about how corsets shouldn’t be uncomfortable has made it to an actress, it probably made it to some male director too, who will then use it to say “no no. Corsets aren’t uncomfortable when they’re fitted well and we paid a lot of money to make sure it was fitted well. You’re fine.” I do hope things improve though, they do deserve better.
Yes, I think a main issue for film actresses is that often they and filmmakers, producers, etc, want them to look as thin as possible, so they are always tightlaced. They never get to wear one just for basic support and shaping. Like Lily James in "Cinderella," the people involved aim for the teeniest waist. And if you watch the new "Miss Scarlet" on PBS, you see wear the modern eye is dictating the shape, i.e a Late Victorian with a corsets giving them inaccurately board-flat lower abdomens instead of the (realistically, comfortably) curved lower belly of historical corsets and gowns of the time.
The main thing I got out of this video is that actresses aren't being properly costumed, and are basically being treated poorly on set. This is not a revelation. But then again, I never thought that any actresses were lying. The point that we are looking from a modern point of view instead of a historically accurate one is a good one that needs to be focused on more. The thing is, I didn't see anything about Emma Watson stating anything about having a poor experience with corsets. I was under the impression that she didn't want to wear one because of "feminism". I do have a problem with that. Because, quite frankly, her continuing to spread misinformation about corsets, and refusing to wear one because of that misinformation, is anti-feminist. She would be the perfect person to educate about historical costuming and to advocate for the changing of the idealized shape that currently defines that era in film. Do not try and make me feel sorry for someone working long hours in Hollywood in uncomfortable clothing. That is the weakest argument in this video. I've worked 12 hour days in uncomfortable uniforms which consisted of restrictive clothing inappropriate footwear. And I've done it for a lot less money than these actresses are getting paid. Yes, they should be able to have costumes that are as comfortable as possible (while still keeping within the spirit of the story). But this also includes costume pieces outside of corsets, like shoes, hats, masks and pretty much anything else that you might not want to wear all day, every day, for weeks on end. We absolutely should advocate for actresses to get treated better. This has been an issue in Hollywood since the inception of film. Women being forced to do nude scenes they are uncomfortable with, being abused to get performances out of them, the list goes on and on. But I am also absolutely going to call out someone for misinformation. Emma Watson refusing to wear a corset added nothing to that discussion. It did not help out the actresses in the next period drama, who might end up tight-laced into ill fitting corsets. All it did was show that if you get to be a big enough star, you can make your own rules. And, quite frankly, not many actresses are going to reach her level of star power.
Your point about shoes or bras is bang on. I remember seeing just one interview with Isla Fischer when she made "Confessions of a shopaholic". In the film, her character tottered about in skyscraper heels. It does look humorous and that was the intended effect. Thing is, that meant Isla was tottering about in these heels for months on end of potentially very long days. She said in the interview that it was utterly murder on her feet and legs, despite the fact they were high quality, properly fitting shoes. Just once did I hear about this. But make it a corset and suddenly it's every interview for the rest of your career.
I'd add that historical films tend to assume all time periods pre-bra used corsets (and one style of corset at that). The time period for Beauty and the Beast would have used stays, not corsets. Silhouettes and the undergarments to achieve them changed throughout history, yet the perception is anything old timey must have been a corset. Honestly there was a lot beyond the underwear wrong with the Beauty and the Beast ballgown. While stays would have helped they wouldn't have fixed it completely.
We don't want to discredit (let alone attack) actresses for sharing their experiences, but--and I say this as someone who works in costuming in film--we can't stop holding the film industry accountable for the comfort and safety of actors. And I do think we need to keep shouting that historical costumes should NEVER hurt, and they need to be fitted and worn properly, until the everyone in the film industry--not just the costumers or the actresses--cannot excuse themselves from handling the 'costume' aspect of a costume drama correctly. People are literally watching these films to see the costumes, but producers and directors don't have a clue about period costume and experts are simply left out of the loop. It's just mind-boggling to me that producers and planners can arrange to have actors go through months of physical training, take horseback riding lessons, take dance lessons, learn a new accent, or do god knows what else to prepare for their roles, but we can't arrange to have underpinnings (not even the full costume--just the underpinnings!) made a few weeks before the shoot, and costumers don't get time with their actresses to fine-tune fitting, season corsets, or train posture and movement. And for fucks' sake, if we can't find a wardrobe assistant who knows how to lace down and won't forget the corset liner, then maybe that needs to be a better-trained and better-paid position. We need to remember that for every leading actress in a high-budget movie complaining about her custom-made corset, certainly for her own reasons, there are still hundreds more actresses, maybe with smaller parts and lower budgets, who actually are getting crammed into cheap chinese off-the-racks and being asked to move around all day. And we need to remember that it's not just corsets. It's shoes. It's hairstyles. It's hats. It's ties. It's jackets. It's clothes too hot. It's clothes too cold. It's wet clothes. It's sweaty clothes. It's scratchy embellishments. And you know what, I've been there. I've been the costumer who was up until 3am tailoring a jacket for a shoot that calls at 5am, coming in to hear my extras complain that their shoulders are too tight and the hat pin is pulling and their hands are cold and...not wanting to hear it. They really do put you in a position where you're giving everything you have and your actors STILL don't get taken care of properly, more so the lower down on the hierarchy they are.
Yes to all of this. It’s such a complex issue, and there are so many problems with films that stretch far beyond corsets. I would never want people to stop pushing the idea that corsets shouldn’t be painful, I was just feeling fed up with a (small!) part of the community that jumps to blame the costume makers or the actresses, when there are so many other things to take into account. I absolutely agree that films push people too hard, particularly those lower in the hierarchy. It’s one of the main reasons I prefer being in an independent workshop, even if you’re working on a big project you can stay out of (most) of the insane pressure (and I hate early mornings haha). I really hope that things start improving as more and more stories come out, but maybe that’s naive, I guess some people up top will always care more about the money...
Fellow industry costumer here! You raise so many excellent points and I really enjoyed your video. There is also the extra issue of something that you wear for 15mins in a fitting can feel like it fits perfectly, then after 10 hours on set you realise it pinches and rubs horrible. This happens so often in my experience with shoes but its a lot easier to go and buy a different size pair of shoes than it is to re-make a custom corset.
There's also the fact that corsets/stays, like shoes, take time to wear in. On stage you generally get a little bit of time to do that, not so much in film.
Yes same! I would also add for me, going off the shoe analogy (because I have funny triangle shaped feet) i have comed to realize in my adult life that I don't think I have ever known what fitting shoes even feel like. I can definitely see that being a problem too for actresses who have never worn a corset before.
@@michaelhandy4018 That's an excellent point! I've worked as an extra in film and TV, and have done the 12 hr day in a corset before on set, along with a couple of friends of mine who were in both costuming and the fetish communities. We weren't exactly comfortable by the end of the day, but we were faring far better than the lead actresses, from what we could overhear, and I have some educated guesses as to why. Unlike the leads, we were all wearing custom corsets from our own wardrobes that were well worn in, were shaped to our bodies, and had some give to them. We were also used to wearing corsets, in that they were our standard wear for a night out dancing, or for one pal who worked as a Pro-Dominatrix, her work uniform. I'd also done some work at a local historical site, and was used to volunteering on weekends in a corset. These actresses were being thrown into the deep end without knowing how to swim, while we extras were Olympic level divers in the world of corsetry. We laughed behind their backs at the time, but maturity and reflection has lent me a more sympathetic point of view now.
I run the mounted archery costuming site on Facebook and we advise people to practice in an outfit prior to a competition or a demo, especially since riding and archery both entail a lot of joint movements in the hip and shoulder. A wool tunic that I bought from a medieval store made it difficult to draw a bow so I’ve just used that for photo shoots where I’m posing and accuracy doesn’t matter as much. As much as I would have loved an embroidered linen Ukrainian blouse, I realized that a long sleeved white shirt from Walmart was much more practical and I didn’t care much if it got covered in horse slobber and dust. But yes, actually do what you want to do in an historical outfit before deciding if it fits
After a recent back injury, I'd also argue that, at the intersection of "long hours" and "personal preference" there's the matter of posture and muscle pain. If you're used to standing in a specific way, and suddenly you're being forced to stand in a completely different way all day every day, you're going to have muscles you didn't even know existed before screaming at you to STOP IT PLEASE. And many styles of corsets definitely do impact your posture quite a bit. That's not a bad thing in itself, but it's like doing an exercise you've never done before. You need to ease into it.
I've been a film extra & double double for several years now, and I'm SO pro-corset! While everything you've said in this video is entirely valid, I just thought i'd share a few of my personal experiences. Extras don't make the headlines for complaining about their corsets because a) the tabloids aren't interested in us, and b) if an extra complains, we're a burden, so we tend to suffer in silence unless it's unbearable, and even then we feel that we risk getting on the costume department's bad side- not something you wanna do when they're the ones strapping you into the thing and deciding 'how much you breathe' that day. I was once informed I wouldn't need a corset because I was 'already skinny enough'; I was told this as if it were something I should be happy and excited about- but that day filming was miserable, as all my Victorian petticoats hung heavily off my hips (rather than having the weight nicely distributed on my waist with the protective barrier of the corset) and absolutely destroyed my posture. I've insisted on wearing one for period dramas ever since. Which then frustrated me to no end when I heard about the fact Emma Watson's 'no-corset-rule' on The Beauty and The Beast was extended to the extras as well. I've since met multiple extras who were on that movie who suffered in a similar way for the sake of Watson's display of feminism. Most- if not every period drama I've been on will have made sure to comfortable fit or hand-craft the lead actress' corsets so they fit perfectly. Unlike the extras, where they'll often just hire a large number of corsets from the Angel's Warehouse in approximate sizes and hope everyone is assigned a relatively comfortable one at their fitting. I once body-doubled for a young actress who was particularly notorious for ripping herself out of her costume at the end of the day - one of her outfits consisted of a pretty iconic (custom-made for the actress) corset, and I was warned multiple times that this was especially tight. They refused to dress me until the last moment so that I wouldn't have to suffer in it for too long, and they told me that if I needed a break, to not be afraid to ask. But it was in-fact one of the most comfortable I had ever worn, which took them all very much by surprise. As for time, yes... every single person without fail, after over fourteen hours in a corset will breathe a sigh of relief to be back in their tank top and jeans at the end of the day- me included. Yes, I'd never want to gaslight someone and invalidate their experiences wearing one- I only have my history to base my knowledge on. I had never worn a corset before becoming a film-extra, but now i'm quite used to them. Also, I've NEVER been on a set where they've had us wear corsets on bare skin- I cannot imagine.
Thank you for sharing! It’s been great hearing from so many people who are on the other side of it - something I didn’t expect when I posted this. The weight distribution thing is an excellent point, definitely an advantage. It’s also been terrific to hear that many sets DO put something under corsets! Since I usually only go on set when I have to for work, most of my on-set experience is with prop-y stuff, and there often aren’t that many considerations made for comfort - especially with extras, as you said.
Thank you for sharing, it's nice to hear something from the extras on that movie's feelings on the situation (even if it wasn't you directly). I always feel like the whole controversy was less about the corset or even feminism and really just a marketing tactic. That may just be me being cynical though, maybe she really did believe in it. Though I wonder if anyone else on set who was inconvenienced by the corsets/stays not being allowed was ever able to explain this point of view to her.
If the extras 'suffered' then that's the costume designer's fault. The reality is that it was extremely common for french women in that era to go without boned support garments (see Jul LeCours videos for reference). The costume designers should have been able to provide comfortable, period accurate clothing for the extras that didn't incorporate corps de baleen (the french word for boned stays).
I'm so happy this was recommended to me, I hope everyone with even a passing interest in this topic sees your video. It's honestly so disheartening to see people go from "here are some misconceptions about corsets" to "anyone who complains about corsets is LYING for the publicity". I think you addressed this very well!
yeah exactly, i feel like i've seen that sentiment amongst historical costumers on youtube, even ones that i like and trust to cover other topics well. i guess if historical costuming is your life's passion, it's probably frustrating when people misunderstand it. So costumers feel the need to defend corsets, but in the process they forget to look at it from the perspective of people who are not as knowledgeable about the fashion, and whose limited exposure to it was a genuinely bad experience.
Yeah and then they start lying about how "men made up myths of faiting to stop women from wearing them" when in reality men wrote those stories of women fainting to jerk off and the corset feel out of popularity due to being expensive during the great depression.
I think Sewing Through the Past (inadvertently) proved your point. She went running in a corset made for her, trying to prove it won't be uncomfortable or make you faint. She had worn it before on a theater set, day in day out, after easing into it beforehand, and been comfortable, even on long days. A few months later, she did the run. Twist: she not hadn't worn her corset since, her body had changed a bit... And she had a noticeably worse time of it.
Ah I love her channel! I had totally forgotten about that video! But yes it’s definitely a good point, maybe actresses do the same - assume that because they were fine by the end of the last film that the next one will be better?
I work as an electric in film and I can confirm that the 12 hour standard, up to 18 hours for us and longer for locations days are really harsh. You would not believe how quickly I upgraded my boots and bras and how much I am willing to spend on them just to not be in severe physical pain at the end of the day. I can completely see an actress who doesn't usually wear a corset being in utter suffering by hour 8 let alone hour 12. If you've never worked on a film set. It's not glamourous. It's a lot of hurry up and wait. The hours are hella long. And the weather only affects the filters we use. Nothing short of an electrical storm or a tornado cancels a film shoot. Pack for the weather always.
I wouldn't consider it gaslighting actresses, because for the most part what I've seen is historical costumers being upset with writers and television wardrobe for making ill-fitting corsets and/or writing tightlacing scenes. I definitely believe the actresses were uncomfortable, and why wouldn't they be when they weren't wearing it properly, or having them made for their body.
Tight lace scene has propose in show unconfortability with serve some narratives how ever don't need to be in every period time, that is space for be created and historical accurate
I was an extra in a big budget film and had a corset made for me. I was laced in at 5AM and didn't take it off until 8:30PM, and spent most of the day climbing up and down a ladder! I had absolutely no problem breathing, eating, or climbing said ladder. To me, the costumers were angels and I was completely in awe of their skill. However, another girl in the same scene as me, with a corset made by that same team, felt ill all day and barely made it through without crying. Yeah...experiences can be pretty different.
I think that maybe another issue with stays/corsets on filmsets is that directors/producers etc want the actress to achieve the slimmest waist possible overnight. They don't want the actress just to wear it, they want certain fancy siluette in minutes. And that's not what an everyday corset user would do. Because it's a bad idea, basically.
The more I learn about historical undergarments and layering the more I'm impressed with our ancestors. People acheived desired shapes by being selective about their textiles and using strategic padding. Tight lacing was not a thing. Natural fibres are also SO much nicer than synthetics for every day wear assuming you understand how dress to a climate/the weather. I think there is a lot of confusion around what corsets and stays actually are. Traditionally, corsets had little to no boning and were soft. Stays were heavily boned and stiff. Very different in terms of structure and functionality.
I think one of the arguments I am not seeing is that actresses are generally slim and work out, so their waistline doesn't have a great deal of give in it, yet the desired look the director wants is the tiny waist. So what is a costumer going to do? make a comfortable corset with as much reduction as is comfortable for that 12 hour day (as far as possible?) or are they going to do their job and sinch in the lady as much as possible to the desired result? The actress will also agree to the look. You are not just moving the fat around like with many modern wearers, you are probably pinching muscle and bone instead. I've seen bigger women talk about how comfortable their corset is and how they can move and even bend, but that wouldn't feel the same on a bonethin actress.
@@Saf333 Yeah there is no way they are going to pad out a size zero actress other than her boobs in historical costume, must achieve 5 inches reduction! I bet they get bruised up. But are willing to "suffer for the part". I was bound up in costume once, not even a corset but a long wrap around in a traditional indonesian wedding ensemble and it didn't just compress my waist but the ribs in that extra space you use for breathing. People that don't count corsets done up tight as restrictive at all are just not being fair, any inches you reduce come from a place you normally need. Though fat moves more easily of course if it has somewhere to go.
@@Saf333 Of course, there is just no change they will intrude on the idea of "small" on camera, pretty sure they even nip in waistlines and increase bums in post production in the superhero movies but these don't have that budget. Directors are also often men.
@@Iflie I honestly want to shove those directors into ill fitting corsets on their naked body and then have them run a marathon. ☺️ Male corsets exist you know...
As I heard it, Emma Watson did not wear a corset in Beauty and the Beast. Not because she found them uncofortable, but because she refused to wear one as she thought them demeaning to women, a sign of how women have been suppressed in the past, or something like that.
It was also because she did not want another Disney princess to have a super tiny waist as it sets a bad example for young girls. Which I think is pretty considerate and ALSO it's a fairy tale movie, not a historical piece so I don't know why everyone complains so much about it.
@@noreng4933 I’m sure she had good intentions and I get her not wanting to have a tiny waist but wearing a corset doesn’t immediately equal tightlacing. It seemed to me like she was making a fuzz about corsets being “oppressive” to women when they existed to make their day-to-day more comfortable. They were necessary support garments equal to the modern-day bra, and they also provided hip support bc of the amount of clothing layers women wore at the time. Beauty and The Beast might be a fairy tale but it’s clearly set in a specific time period. It makes no sense for her to have claimed that corsets are “anti-feminist” when they were simply undergarments meant to provide support.
Even if she doesn’t cinch the waist, it still gives an hourglass figure which only 5-15% of women have (depends on genetics/ethnicity/nationality) so that’s already unrealistic for most women. Also, “support” isn’t a good thing for most people. The more support you give your abs and back muscles, then the more lazy they become, the muscles atrophy, and eventually you’ll end up with back problems, hip problems and a few months later you’ll definitely need professional help. I’ve seen this happen (not with corsets per se) where someone unbalances the original dynamic of the anatomical structure, and it can take years to correct a couple of months of mistakes.
I’ve never thought the complaints by actresses about corsets and costuming were overblown. If they were experiencing pain and discomfort I’m sure its real.
Part of the problem is that there is no time given to be eased into the costumes. If you look at big budget productions where the protagonist has to have a certain body type? They get time to work out. Why not for corsets. Why not give them a freaking month to get comfortable. It does make a huge difference - because having the right corset/stays makes such a difference to the shape, the figure (which again, if you need to work out for, you often get time for). But somehow, big movie companies never listen to me, so I guess this is not gonna happen soon. Thanks for your speech-driven video, btw. You made your point clear and simple. I liked the argument of the working hours, it is easy to forget just how long leading ladies often have to wear them without being able to get used to them.
Because giving them work out time is important for the aesthetics, while how comfortable workers are is irrelevant to the investors. Our society also has the idea that women just have to learn to deal with uncomfortable clothes, so of course no one gives a damn that the actresses feel bad. They make them run in high heels, you think they care if the corset gives them a rash?
Also... “time to workout” is kinda a gross understatement. Those actors (and sometimes actresses but unless she’s a Major Name they’ll hire the skinny girl over the chubby woman. And often she’s already thin or dangerously close to being underweight before being forced to change her body) are forced to drop 15 or MORE pounds in an insanely short amount of time. That is NOT Healthy. The flip is also true-forcing actors and actresses to gain 15 or more pounds instead of hiring a plus sized actor or using a fat suit with their costuming. And every time they’re Shirtless? They have to fast-including water-for about 48-72 hours just for that shot. Nevermind any retakes. They need an IV Drip STAT. Point is? Terrible counter example, and the film industry doesn’t give a shit about the actresses’ and actors’ health&safety. Seven-of-Nine nearly dying because of her silver exoskeleton corset costume is only an example of Extreme Costuming and...it hasn’t gotten better since then at all
So a combination of having a short period of time/having no time to acclimatize to wearing the corset, having to wear said corset for long periods of time on film sets, having to wear the corset without a chemise for 'stylistic' purposes/increasing sex appeal (which I think is kinda rooted in sexism) which means anywhere the corset rubs against skin is intensified and finally the media sensationalising what these actress say about their corsets (which means the media is anti-corset because I've never seen a news article about an actresses' experiences with blistering feet after working on set but maybe they do print those articles but I don't read the news enough to encounter them)
The “not wearing a shift or chemise” gets me because there’s a difference between a practical corset and a fetish/sex corset. And a lot of men do complain about skin tight superhero outfits, it just doesn’t get as sensationalized as the women complaining about corsets. Supposedly Chadwick Bozeman hated his outfit for Black Panther
The blistering feet point is such a good example! We know that movies from the 30s/40s/50s have stories of actresses feet bleeding after they had to dance for 6 hours trying to get the right take, wearing a dress with weights to get the fabric to flow right, dancing a super complicated long one-take scene bc it’s too difficult to cut in the middle so they have to get it in one, resulting in battered bruised legs and bleeding aching feet 💀 We don’t publish ridiculously intense articles about the heels and hyper-strength shapewear/duct tape setups celebs use because that’s become normalized within society as, maybe a bit intense, but otherwise standard way to dress/clothing to wear, while corsets have been shunted back into being considered ‘old school torture devices’ (even though heels are more painful and dangerous for basic everyday wear than a properly made/fitted corset, let alone for actions scenes etc in film) for some inane reason. The fact that heels survived history to still be considered modern and acceptable despite hundreds of studies on the damage they cause but corsets, which (when worn properly+not tightlaced) are only dragged out in historical curiosity + to be mocked ‘look at how barbaric they were back in the day! Now get back into those heels’ is crazy to me.
Finally someone with commen sense! Corsets are also not "like bras". They are like corsets. They are more restrictive no matter how comfortable. Sometimes I like exactly that, sometimes I don't.
I don’t like something restricting my breathing. I worked HARD to breathe properly (I’m a singer) so anything that’s going to force me to breathe from the Chest or Neck vs Abdomen (not literally, this is a generalization about how you pull your air and what part of the body you see expand), Not A Fan. And needing a chamise underneath then the corset them the top? Also pass. Looks like a fantastic way to get heat stroke-and yes I’m prone to that. And, binders are essentially similar to corsets, but there are so many cautionary tales about where to buy and how long to wear one for, and them apparently causing damage that prevent transmen and enby people from getting topsurgery Which, I don’t like my bras, either. But at least I have the hope of Someday finding a fitting one. But even a poorly fitted bra isn’t going to mess with my breathing or eating, and it’s a lot less fabric so No Heatstroke. -a poorly fitting one’s just gonna pinch nerves and give me migraine symptoms instead. I just can’t win- Anyway. For The Boobs garnments SHOULD be fine, but any little thing WRONG and it is NOT GOOD.
@@anonymousfellow8879 are you anit-corsets? Your argument is saying that most singers shouldn't have one because you cant breathe? Then you also say that corsets are good for support in the boobs are great. 1) if I have that correct, you should know that if it way too tight or lacing it way too tight, just like bras makes it hard to breathe and that common sense. 2) corsets are not just for boobs to support, it's to support the whole torso. With correct sizing and fitting and properly lacing its very breathable and you can still use your adbom no problem and your chest no problem. 3) I will agree that not everyone like or loves corsets, but just like modern clothes you'll have issues if you don't have to proper sizing fitting and comfort.
@Amalie Shelby I literally saw a procorset video that’s (surprise surprise) verging on Toxic Positivity for them-and she was wearing it correctly. But everything about that garnment was a Hard Pass. You want your belly to expand when you breathe, not your chest. Guess what a corset Encourages-or at least the style she wore. Also, so much fabric. No chamise/tshirt and hello worse chaffing than a miserable bra. Not great for people prone to overheating, have sensitive skin ‘cause clogged pores so hello rash, and it didn’t even work for modern clothing. Anything that restricts portion size because it restricts how the abdomen expands (even when NOT laced too tight) is a step backwards. Yes correct misinformation. But the Pro crowd are so LOUD about “this is the best thing ever and if you disagree you are the WORST” when it just isn’t going to work for everyone. Maybe other styles are supportive without demanding organs and muscles stay “tucked”. But trying to do a search only pulls up ones that look more like fetish wear than something actually wearable as an undergarment with normal clothing.
@@anonymousfellow8879 and? I watched it too. Also I'm just trying to understand your statement in the beginning and you halfway ignored what I was saying. Im just trying to understand your personal reasons that's all. I know corest isn't for everyone. I know there are different styles of them as well. I make my own and do my own research. I only used tight lacing as an example as to what MOST people believe. I understand that nit everyone would enjoy wearing them for many different reasons. I'm still learning about them every single day and seeing mistakes all the time. I'm not saying "Everyone need them" I'm saying that people should look into it if they are curious and want to know more. If people are against it and they have their own reasons with it without much research I would like to know why they believe that with them backing up their statement. AGAIN I UNDERSTAND that not everyone loves corests. I'm so very much aware that theres a lot of mis information out there in the world but when is there not about anything?
I have been frustrated with how people have covered this topic in the past (making fun of actresses, saying they were lying) and I really appreciate your perspective. Thank you!
Honestly, me too! It's why I stopped watching corset videos. I found it interesting at first, but got really tired of the attitude in both videos and ESPECIALLY comments sections that acted like anyone who didn't think corsets were the best piece of clothing ever invented were part of some conspiracy or something. Like, what does anyone have to gain by lying about a corset being uncomfortable for them? And as this video points out, working/environmental conditions can play a major factor! Thank you for this great video @Lina Piprek!
@@juno5756 yeah, just make sure that the bra is two sizes too small and wear it with the straps twisted. It's not just wearing a corset, it's wearing a tight corset without any undergarments below.
Thank you for this video. I am a little bit tired of all the corset defending videos - so it is nice to hear the other arguments and considerations you've pointed out. I differ in terms of a chemise, because I don't think the audience would be overly irritated by it, and period dramas pre 1990s showed actresses wearing chemises under corsets. I believe it, when a leading actress says she felt uncomfortable at a certain point, but the question itself also shows how much the corset is turned into a mythical object of torture.
Thanks! Yeah it’s not so much that I think the general public would mind if there were shifts (I genuinely think most people are clueless about historical fashion and couldn’t care less one way or the other), but that it’s an endless cycle of not including them, so people get used to not seeing them, so filmmakers think it won’t matter if they leave them out and show some cleavage instead. I rambled an awful lot when I was filming this, the version in the video was the most coherent I could get it 🙈 And yeah totally agree on the corset questions! Almost reminds me of always asking who designed red carpet looks... like interviewers think that’s the only topic worth discussing after someone stars in a period drama.
@@LinaPiprek After all, one could always have the shift.... Artfully Cut to show off as much clevage and collarbone-age as possible, regardless of how high the neckline would have been in that period historically
👏👏👏 Well said! I don't have experience on a film production, but my experience doing faire reenacting sounds a little similar-- 12-hour days on your feet, surprisingly strenuous performances, et c. I can 100% confirm that my corset which felt fine during a 2-hour rehearsal was suddenly not fine for 12 hours singing and dancing on a concrete floor. +1 for the film industry giving greater priority to actors' comfort, and greater recognition for just how demanding the work is.
That definitely sounds similar! The point I wanted to make was that the situation affects comfort, and of course that’s the case outside of film sets too. Faire reenacting sounds exhausting - I have to say I prefer the version I do where I can curl up in a corner and sew all day 😅 Thank you for sharing! ❤️
Under the Personal Preference one I think about bras. There are some people that loathe bras ( I.e the “burn your bra” movement ). There are even some people that become uncomfortable in a non-wire ones
and then there are people (me) who Will Not wear a traditional bra but feel very uncomfortable without a sports bra or other non-cup'd-boob-support-garment.
In regards to the long hours on set causing discomfort, I'd also like to add that, from my own experience, the heat generated from certain lighting (both stage & film), hot weather & the inability to use air-con (because of noise etc.), can make even one layer of modern clothes, & just a bra & undies underneath, become uncomfortable. As well as for creative/logistic reasons etc., I assume that another reason that a chemise/shift might not be worn, could be the idea that reducing the number of layers would reduce the chance of overheating; but one could still get hot. Having a hot, sweaty body sticking or rubbing against the boning (& possibly tight synthetic fabric) for hours on end, would not only be uncomfortable, it could potentially cause blisters. 🤔😬 Wear chemises, please...s. 😅 xo
I really appreciate hearing this from your perspective, especially the compassion you have for these actresses. In the costuming community it's easy to get caught up in defending corsets, but your points are a reminder that we never know the whole story and we can't claim to know the personal experiences of these women. Thank you for posting this!
Emma not wearing a corset had nothing to do with corsets and everything to do with perception - they are perceived as literal women oppression. If bras werent a norm, she would have refused to wear one of those too. Its unfortunate because her wardrobe as Belle was frumpy and her posture was nothing to write home about
In my opinion, hollywood and the film industry in general are to blame for the corset’s bad reputation. They were undergarments meant to provide support. They weren’t always tightlaced either. I’ve seen some fashion historians compare them to the modern-day bra. They provided comfort (given the amount of layers women wore at the time) and they were very effective. Nowadays, there’s people out there saying all sorts of bs. That corsets were “torture machines meant to oppress women” and other nonesense. Also yes I agree that her costume in Beauty and The Beast wasn’t right. Someone in the comments said it didn’t matter because this was a fairy tale and not a historical movie, but in my opinion that’s no excuse. The movie is set in a clear time period, the costume designer should’ve found an alternative for Emma to wear so as not to lose the silhouette associated with whatever the year the movie is set in.
I really think Emma gets too much shite for that, corsets not being a death trap still isn't common knowledge All of these misconceptions are still very prevalent, especially in Hollywood And there's no guarantee that a corset would have made all of her costumes better, because of how Hollywood deals with corsets
@@WolvenDragonZ Historically, she should have been in a Corset Blanc, a completely unboned bodice worn by women at the time, particularly those in her social class (poor rural women) which is actually pretty similar to the blue bodice she wears early in the film.
A reminder that some pieces of clothing aren’t comfortable for some people. People have different thresholds for discomfort. And the environment in which you are wearing the clothing and the things you need to do in the clothing are also factors.
This sounds like quite a complex issue, but one thing I think is often left out is that actors (like singers) are trained to breathe in a certain way to use their voice without damaging it/blowing it out, and breath can also be very important for accessing emotion. I know opera singers wear corsets but they probably have a chance to wear them in and learn how to breathe differently in them. Just wanting to add that if you've learned to breathe a certain way and suddenly you put on a corset and have long days on set where you need to do your best performance, I can understand how it could be difficult and uncomfortable.
I've done a lot of extra work. One day we shot for 8 hours in the summer heat over 90 degrees and were wearing FULL winter gear. We had to pretend we were cold while we were literally almost at heatstroke level. This included the stars of the show. On-set is not a comfortable place. Shooting a movie/show is not a comfortable place.
From everything I've heard, it seems pretty normal for directors not to care at all about actresses comfort and a lot of non corset costumes are extremely uncomfortable, too.
Yeah, I’ve heard a lot of bad stories coming out of sets as well unfortunately. I think there’s a lot of work that needs doing - not just the costumes.
I've been an extra in a movie with historical costumes, in a crowd scene in a theatre. The scene took two 16-hour days to film. (I think the extras had a longer day than the actors, because there were maybe 200 extras to get ready and only a dozen actors, but they were probably on set for at least 12 hours as well.) The extras didn't have historic underthings, we wore our own underwear and shoes under the costumes. Even then it was pretty hot and uncomfortable after a few hours of filming. Outside temperatures were about 30°C, and one woman collapsed and another had to leave the set because she was on the verge of collapsing, and that was just due to the heat without any restricting clothes. I actually like corsets, but I think wearing a corset in that situation would have been even worse.
Natural fabrics were generally used back then and for the ones that were ladies a handheld fan could work in their favor I typically do female historically accurate cosplays or men dressing as women in a historical setting so I'm not sure how the males would keep cool. Probably been able to take the jacket off if it was inside the theater if I remember it was a theater correctly in which you were an extra in., but I also understand it could get quite hot out and hopefully the ones who passed out or had to leave were alright. Its just a tip, after all there were people that wore everything from the underpinnings to the visible part of the dress, in the day they used a parasol (umbrella) however in the evening or formal events they used a handheld fan.
@@nikandrosnickmackeage378 The scene was set in a theatre, but it was filmed partly on a film set. The first day of filming was on location in the theatre, which was absolutely fine because it was a stone building and didn't get hot inside. Second day of filming was in a studio, with 30°C outside and about the same inside, and the lights made it even hotter and stuffy. We had fans, but that hardly helped in the midday heat after several hours of filming. Real people attending the theater go to an airy stone building in the evening and if you see a Wagner opera it can take up to 5 hours. We were in a stuffy film set for far longer. And yes, the people who collapsed were fine after rehydrating and resting.
I've been in fim production, shooting set, theater stage as costumiere, executive producer assistant and actress (in France) and... YES, YES...AND YES! I was so happy that the costuming community busted the "killer corset" that I've almost forget... To keep in mind what you said about the habit, mindset and the long hard day situation. Thank you! This video is very useful and at the right time. 😊🖤
Maybe it's also because most of these actresses are probably quite athletic with strong core muscles which might make it harder/more uncomfortable to "pull" the waist in? I just watched Nicole Rudolph's "100 years of Corset History" and in the beginning she says that a "modern body" (i.e. stronger abdominal muscles) is not as easily cinched in as women's bodys in the past. Idek if that's a valid reason since I've never worn a corset...
Honestly, I always just assumed corsets were less comfortable for actresses because they were tight-lacing. Actresses are often expected (sometimes fairly, often not) to go above and beyond for physical beauty, so it makes sense that corsets would be used in that way as well.
Thank you. I have started finding a few TH-camrs have started getting on my nerves with their eyerolling about actresses not liking corsets, every time they mention corsets in movies, like the actresses are lying or stupid or something. Women should be lifting each other up not belittling each other.
I’ve been wishing someone would bring this up. The anti-corset noise is incredibly frustrating, but the rage directed at the actresses who have had bad experiences really doesn’t help.
I even get irritated in a bra that is supposed to fit me well and i very rarely wear them the past years,i almost always wear a sports bra or not at all.I would feel awful if i had to wear a corset because i dislike restrictive very tight clothes
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 dunno dude.Bras should never be considered a requirement.Everyone has breasts and nipples,yet only afam people "must" wear them.
Haven't seen any of your other videos but this argument was so well thought out and explained and it hits the mark of what I think has been missing from a lot of corset 'discourse'. I had bought into the thinking that it's just poorly fitting corsets etc that have caused the issues, and until you pointed out the very obvious logical points that professional costumers know what they're doing and film sets are Hard Work, I and completely forgotten to take that into consideration. I was an art department runner on a small indie film set and I had completely forgotten how wiped out I was day after day - of course that's going to have an impact on comfort in a corset! Loved this video, I'm immediately subscribing!
I do stand by what I said in the video though - I think the other videos and general discourse about corsets needed to come first. If others hadn’t made videos explaining the basics or talked so widely about it, I don’t think a more nuanced video like this could do well (in fact I’m sure many people who have made “myth busting” videos share some version of this opinion, but left it out of their videos because they wanted to make a clear, concise argument) Thank you and happy to have you here! 😊
I'm thinking of a very specific youtuber who is always talking about how great corsets are and dismissing others experiences. Glad I found this video, now I know why I was uncomfy
I really like that you mentioned about the mindset. Because I’ve been wearing a corset while going to classes, travelling in a car, lifting heavy boxes from one place to another place, strolling around, basically, my daily routine includes a corset, and I don’t complain about it, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t get tired at the end of the day. The main reason that I don’t complain about wearing a corset is because I like wearing a corset. I like to wear a full-on historical costumes because I feel like myself wearing them. Another reason is that when I wear modern clothes or clothes that are from eras that a corset is not a necessary undergarment to build a silhouette, I still tend to wear a tight-fitting garments, so I think personal preferences, experience and mindset can really affect how one views a corset. And I agree with you that “not everybody likes corsets”. Although I do like wearing them now, I needed almost a week for my body to get used to wearing a corset or historical costumes.
Corsets can be comfortable, but it depends on the situation, health and body type. Some people like me can have GERD and this will make wearing any type of a corset (even the lightest ones) a torture. It's a torture to wear anything even a little bit restraining around your waist with this condition, so, a corset can't be comfortable. And considering that snacking late at night, having irregular schedule etc. can lead to gerd, I think that a lot of actresses have this problem even without knowing it. Plus, we mustn't forget that most of the times people who likes corsets will not have the same type of physical activity to the actresses who are not only moving and acting, but also standing underneath of a lot of lighting which makes it unbelievably hot. And most of the corsets that are used on sets are not everyday corsets that are much more comfortable. Plus any rigid clothes is uncomfortable in the begining. You need to were it in and then it will be comfortable. Most of my clothes is custom made, but it actually doesn't mean that my clothes is really comfortable all the time. Something can look good on you, be your size and fit you well when you're at fitting, but at the same time it can be impossible to wear it for long periods of time. Or it can deform in a process. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with any type of clothing. It doesn't mean that we mustn't try and change people's opinions, but it is strange to hear that corsets are totally comfortable and can't cause any discomfort and if they indeed causing you discomfort then it's the person's wearing it fault. It is strange and disrespectful.
The issue I have is when someone won’t wear one when they don’t actually have any facts or experience to back it up. I would love to see your experience in a corset. Especially if you can add any tips on how you could combat any issues you come across.
The misinformation does annoy me too. It’s frustrating feeling like there’s wrong information being spread and no way to reach the person who’s spreading it. I think the key thing for me was realising I was annoyed about that, and not annoyed that someone had a different opinion than me, you know? But that’s the weird world we live in I guess: celebrity = expert. I’ll think about the video, thanks 😊
You’re a sweetheart and all the points you’ve raised are fair and valid. Thank you for sharing your feelings, it’s always good to have more perspective on this topic.
What a nice reflection on corsetry and movies. I agree with the personal perspective, and I think it is totally valid to bring up the reality of acting, including long hours and aesthetic adjustment. Well done!
Thank you so much for bringing up working conditions. A few years ago I had 2 weeks of overnight 14hrs on set in the cold. Every minor little discomfort made me feel like I was actually going to die. Also, for big emotional scenes actors are going to be living in a heightened emotional state for all that time, which will also make every sensational all the more intense
To be fair, Lily James also has a naturally tiny tiny waist. I don’t know the measurements, but if you view photos of her on the red carpet without a corset, it’s not so different.
Yes, thank you! To me that is sich an important point, I am actually super happy that Emma Watson did not deliver another Disney princess with such a tiny waist because it sets such a bad example to young girls.
@@Theater00jock it is, ofc she is skinny in real life but the corset combined with the big skirt made her look so insanely tiny as if you could grab around her whole waist with your hand.
Thank you for this! I'm not part of the costuming community but enjoy the videos on TH-cam and always get a bit uncomfortable when people complain/make fun of actresses who disliked their corset. It always feels a bit unfair. Thank you for this other perspective.
As a theater costumer, I am ADAMANT that ANYone wearing a corset for a show starts wearing it at their first vocal rehearsal and especially the by the first moment the stand for blocking. It’s MY a responsibility to make sure a corset is ready....preferably I made or or at least purchased and well-fit. Every time they step into the rehearsal space, that corset (and rehearsal skirts) are on. Once they start rehearsing and working with everything, they get to make the calls regarding fit, etc., as long as it works within the period and design.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and feelings :) I always love seeing professional talk about corsets and especially making the point not to vilify actresses who may have had bad experiences. I always get so mad when I see corsets straight on the skin of those poor girls. And I have first hand knowledge of how hard it can be to switch from having worn a corset a few times for a couple hours to wearing one all the time, it can be very difficult especially for the first few days. For context : I used to be a bar tender in a cabaret club where we were required to dress the part, I had a corset I wore it with a strapless tank top under it so it wasn't straight on my skin and still looked amazing, I wore said corsets a few times before starting to work there and even though I felt comfortable with it on the second day of work after 8 hours straight I almost fainted. I was working really hard and wasn't used to breathing in a corset for that long. I got coaching on how to breathe in it and how to get used to it and after a week I could work 12 hours a day with it no problem. So my point here is that yes, it is an adaptation and it can be very hard if you're not prepared. It of course helps if you do the work previous to wearing a corset and are aware you're not damaging your body by wearing it.
Love this view, very well said! Also as most people refuse to wear wired bras anymore are we surprised that they don’t like wearing corsets? No. Some people don’t like wearing heels, some people love them. It’s all personal preference mixed in with the endurance of a long day. I’ve got more of a problem about the ‘wrong’ sorts of corsets being used. Side note, love you lina! Having this on whilst sewing was like the good old days at uni but with less Prosecco🥂❤️
Great points! I said this in another video that was leaning (especially in the comments) into the "the actresses are just whining/lying". If your first and likely only experience with corsets is miserable long days in an unfamiliar garment, you are going to have a negative view of that garment. It especially doesn't help when people compare it to wearing a bra, which plenty of people find uncomfortable as well. The actresses are not part of some sexist ancient campaign to discredit corsets; they are just sharing their experience and that experience was unpleasant.
When you were talking about the rigors of being on set all day, I had a brief memory of a photo I saw... somewhere. (Not helpful, I know.) It was a "backstage look" type of thing on a film set in what I want so say is the late '40s or so. One of the actresses is between takes, and she can't change out of the long clingy silk gown that looks like it just flowed down the line of her body was actually quite tight, making even sitting a bit of an issue (plus the whole "don't wrinkle it!" thing). The film set's solution? A board, set upright at a slight angle... 25-30 degrees perhaps, with another board at her feet to keep her from sliding off and hopefully take a little weight off her feet, because, I don't care how used to them you are, there can only be so many hours on your feet that high heels are comfortable. Maybe there was some padding, but you couldn't tell in the photo. So on longer breaks, she would step up and lean against the board, the angle enough to take some of the stress off her back, but not so deep that it would be difficult or awkward to converse with others on the set, or go over her script, etc. I'm not sure why the practice stopped... maybe the costumes stopped being as restrictive?
I remember reading an article in Entertainment Weekly during the filming of The Lion, The Witch and the Woredrobe. A similar board setup was constructed for the actress who played Jadis, the White Witch, because her costume had no give. Therefore, these boards haven't quite gone the way of the buffalo.
This 'it should be totally comfortable' is kind of like wearing a binder. Online you get info on how to bind safely and if you bind safely, _nothing_ should hurt and you can only bind for 8 hours at a time and if something hurts, you should take a break or change altogether. This can be applied directly to corset wearing. That said, I bind regularly and my PMS makes it so I can wear virtually nothing but a really loose sports bra for a whole week of my cycle, because everything else hurts so much. I have breathing problems from anxiety and after an OP where my abdominal cavity was inflated, my ribs hurt with too deep breaths. When I am stressed, even though physically everything is fine, I feel like literally dying in my binder because my ribs feel like breaking just from breathing. If on any given day I was contractually obliged to wear my binder, there would be a good chance that I would have a miserable and painful experience even though I happily wear my binder 80% of the time without any problems.. I would probably not tell anyone unasked, but many of these stories also come from actresses being explicitly asked how bad the corset was or how they could do something in it, that no costuber would repeatedly do in a corset (like a stage fight with several hours of retakes to get continuity right for all shots)
This is the best video I've seen on corsets in the film industry and the bad stigma surrounding them. Kindness and thoughtfulness goes so far and and remembering that there's SO much more to the story like longer/calmer interviews, long hours and the unique situations surrounding being on a film set. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts in this video!! 💕
I think it's kinda the same thing with bras. I stopped wearing them some time ago and now when I put one on it feels very uncomfortable. When I wore them on a daily basis, of course they didn't bother me that much as they do today. Because I'm not used to it anymore. Bras are not made to hurt or be uncomfortable. And there are right and wrong ways to wear them. Just like corsets. I know that corstes are not like bras though! I just meant the feeling of being used to it and not being used to it!
Thank you for this video - although the rising appreciation for corsets has been great, a lot of the nuance about how the film industry and the actresses get treated, is brushed off. Clothing can be uncomfortable! It's a basic fact of wearing stuff for a long time - things get irrating and annoying and even painful. And that pain is real and shouldn't just be dismissed. When I worked at a medical facility, we had uniform shoes. Those shoes were fine at try on, and for the first part of your shift. But 10 hours later, running up and down stairs and standing for hours on end... those shoes were desperately painful. Does that mean the shoe itself was a product of satan? NO. but the pain was still real, and I still complained about it. Same thing for corsets
Oh it was so enlightening to listen to someone who has the experience in the film industry! You did open my eyes on several issues. Thank you for making his video! I wear a well-made well-fitted corset with a chemise every time I go outside (which is not much in current circumstances, but still). It's a wonderful garment that I'm used to, but despite all that, sometimes I just have a bad-corset day. It's like your bad-hair day, only with a corset :) And I can't wait to take the damn thing off of me!
Thanks, I’m glad you liked it! It’s interesting to hear the perspective of someone who does wear a corset regularly, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing 😊
This is something I've said for a long time to people who loved corsets and could not comprehend how someone could ... not like them? Or isn't used to them? THANK YOU !
THANK YOU. As a musical/stage actor with frequent jobs involving costumers who DO know what they're doing/wearing stuff underneath/etc., but still finds corsets uncomfortable, I always felt severely alienated and was getting really tired of being told that I was upholding terrible myths and ruining the costuming industry by saying that I didn't like having to wear them. I always sympathized with actresses who complained about corsets, and people just looked at me like I was crazy! I think another thing to be aware of is, at least in things like operas or musicals, people do have to SING in corsets. And it can be extremely difficult to do that with pressure around the area where your abdominal viscera are and the fact that singing requires deep, expansive, diaphragmatic breathing. It's always been so difficult for me to do my job in corsets, which was...exactly why I hate having to wear them. So thank you. For busting myths, for teaching me something new, and for validating the experiences of those of us who have had genuinely terrible experiences with wearing corsets.
I am one of those people who gets a little too defensive of corsets, thank you for making this video as it really opened my eyes, as have all the very productive comments! I hope there's a way to improve this in the film industry, I know in American/Hollywood productions they don't have easy work conditions at the best of times.
Ive been waiting for a video like this. Ive been really weary of the pro-corset videos specifically because so many of them revolve around corsets not being uncomfortable and just outright discounting other people's experiences. Nuance is so important and we shouldnt be demonizing corsets OR actresses who don't like them.
I've never done film but I've been onstage and I agree with what you're saying here. I actually didn't realise that people were villifying actresses for having bad experiences. It seems perfectly logical as someone who has performed musicals in corsets that while they aren't dangerous or, in my case, restrictive, it does feel SO GOOD to take them off at the end of the day. Haha
This was a very well-thought out, balanced, and empathetic video, and I wanted to say thank you for sharing what you know. I agree, there's a little (or a lot) of self-righteousness in the costuming community about corsets, and I hope more people can watch this video. Maybe you could share it on your Instagram?
Thank you for this great video. I was uncomfortable with all this new discourse about how corsets are soooo comfy and how women complaining abour wearing a corset are ignorant / dramaqueens. Now I understand better the issue with this rhetoric thanks to all the interesting informations you gave us. Corsets are restrictive garments. Even the most comfortable corset on earth is still a restrictive, rigid garment. It feels even more restrictive for us modern people who wear a lot of stretchy and baggy cloths. An actress who is focused on her acting (voice + emotions + body language + her lines) and has to deal with many challenges (the heat, the long day of work, the stress etc) may not want to deal with another challenge such as wearing a restrictive undergarment that she is not used to wear. Plus, from a feminist point of view : there are good reasons why 19th and 20th century feminists hated the corset. They were not "hysterical", they were not "making things up". The corset was an important element of a misogynistic dress code that was compulsatory for women at that time and a lot of feminists got rid of their corset for valid reasons. The reform dress mouvement and the violent reactions it caused show how the 19th century western societies had an autoritarian vision of how women should dress. Just because some anticorset propaganda is rooted in misogyny (the cliché of frivolous women being victims of their vanity) does not mean that corset was not a tool of gynophobic oppression. I am glad that today we have great costubers making informative videos about corsets and I am glad that nowadays we enjoy the freedom to wear what we want, including corsets, but let us not dismiss the experience of women who have suffered from oppressive dress norms. The conversation about corsets reminds me the controversy over hijab. Yes, part of the antihijab discourse is rooted in misogyny (agressive remarks on women who refuse to look "sexually available"), but also, a big part of the prohijab propaganda is very misogynistic too ("a woman who shows her hair and cleavage is not respectable" etc) and we should never forget the sufferings of the millions of women who are forced to wear it by the law and risk to be sent to jail if they show their hair in public.
very insightful on the empathy we need to drive towards actresses who speak about their experiences. it's very unfortunate that a lot of people's first reaction to a woman complaining about (or simply retelling, expressing their feelings) a bad experience is mocking, so your video is very refreshing. i hope your kindness gets you far in life ❤
Thank you so much for this video! Honestly the first 3 videos about how the way actresses talk about corsets were funny but some youtubers have made so many it’s a little bit like oh ok so you just lack empathy
Love this! Actresses shouldn't be shamed for not having a positive experience with corsets. My only issue is when they spread misinformation and claim that their experiences were the universal experiences of women in history. What we all need to do, both actresses and costumers alike, is acknowledge that the experiences of historical women and actresses on a modern film set are simply not comparable.
Thank you for your refreshing insight. I'm getting really angry hearing the same corset defending argument and the lack of empathy of some other TH-camrs. We know who...
This video is great. You make some great points. I’ll admit, I was one of those “gas lighters” when it came to actresses complaints about wearing corsets. I just simply forgot this one universal fact: people are allowed to feel the way they feel and those feelings are perfectly valid. There are also many, MANY underlying factors when it comes to why an actress would be uncomfortable in a corset she has to wear for whatever project she is working on.
I think you've made a very valid & empathetic point here and I can completely relate to the situation affecting ones comfort levels. I usually tend to feel the pressure around the 5 hour mark and if I have to wear a corset for, say 12 hours, the feeling of pressure would certainly increase. I do tend to find that sitting down for extended periods of time while wearing stays or corsets is actually more uncomfortable, than if I was constantly moving around a bit.
Oh interesting! Just goes to show that everyone is different I guess - I tend to be more comfortable wearing a corset when I have a calmer day. Though to be fair, I don’t have many days where I’m actually *totally* still for longer periods, so who knows. Thanks for your insight 😊
Thank you for this perspective. The whole calling actresses liars thing has been bugging me for a while now but I appreciate hearing a nuanced take on it from someone much more knowledgeable than me!
I went to college for costuming, I've worked on film sets, and I'm getting into acting, so I really appreciate your perspective! Lots of excellent points. I would love to see actors getting used to their corsets as a regular part of the rehearsal process (not totally sure how this works on bigs sets, since I've only worked in indie films). Having that time to break in your corset and get used to working with it would help make the long days on set more comfortable.
Smaller time film/stage/commercial actress here. What I’ve discovered from a lot of sets and productions is that a lot of costumes aren’t made specifically to you, they might be rented or part of a stock house that does a lot of productions. And sometimes I’ve even had costumers who didn’t know much of anything dressing me to the point where I knew more more about historical costuming than they did. Yes yes to the point of people designing being separate from the dressers. Even if the designer knows, the person actually putting clothes on you might not. And a lot of times their experience comes from watching other films so they actually try tight lacing you because they just assume that is how a corset should be worn. Other times the people are knowledgeable but the garment needs to fit both the main performer and understudy. Not sure what happened to big names like Emma stone and others because you would think they would have more say, but they may not know enough about historical costuming themselves to tell the dresser to loosen the stays or corset because they also think tightlacing is how it should be. Plus a lot of times you are doing 15 hour days, on your feet, dunked in water or doing crazy things. Great video!!!
Thank you so much for articulating my complicated feelings on this. I'm pro-corset if people want to wear them, but it makes me super uncomfortable when anyone who says "I had a negative experience" gets dismissed outright without considering why. I have a slightly wonky spine, and my current corset-making skills are not up to figuring out a solution that won't compress nerves. That's not an indictment of corsets generally, but I get sick of couching it so much in defensive language to avoid people either thinking I'm anti-corset (and, depending on their own view, agreeing intensely with a thing I'm not saying, or getting super defensive and arguing against a thing I'm not saying), or trying to fix the problem ("Have you tried X") that is not currently a thing I'm invested in fixing. TLDR: You are doing good work and you're lovely. Thank you for sharing your expertise!
Finally!! My biggest pet peeve is to see people attacking the low quality of the corsets actress are forced to wear and then in the same breath attack those actresses instead of whoever gave them the corset and told them to do stupid things in it. It reeks of misogyny: the woman is always to blame according to them. We need more content like this.
Thank you so much for this video! I didn't realize how much I needed it 😅. I didn't realize how unfair I was being in my judgements of actresses experiences. Of course everyone's experience is valid! I have no right to say what they did or didn't feel, or to judge them because of that. How did I lose sight of that? Thank you so much for calling me out a little bit , I needed it 💕
I have been consuming a lot of pro-corset material lately and I have learned a lot, but I admit to jumping on the bandwagon of thinking that everyone who dislikes a corset is stupid. Your video kind of rubbed me the wrong way at the beginning because of its truth. You have kept balance in mind, of not going to one extreme to fix the other. Your video was very informative and I highly appreciate you for keeping this issue balanced. The world isn't black and white, and our youtube content shouldn't be either. Overall I have the utmost respect for this video, great job!
On the subject of comfort I wonder how many costumes take materials into account as well. For example natural fibers tend to breathe well so a big poofy dress made of them is going to be more comfortable in the summer but cheaper polyester and poly blends are way less so. That alone could create a different experience.
This video is really important.I've seen some brushing off actresses' discomfort in corsets as just overreacting. They forget that the film set is a different environment.
A great companion video to all the "corsets are fine, guys" videos running around costube. I was interested in another opinion. Thanks! I'm still trying to make my own corset with a shoestring budget. It hard. Me dumb. I laced on my mockup on for 15 mins and it squished me the wrong way so that I couldnt stand up straight for an hour or two after I took it off 😱😱😱
Thank you so much for this! I have definitely been one to turn up my nose in the "know-it-all snobbery defense" while trying to counteract the wives tales around corsetry; but you made so many good points, and I am thankful for the humility you inspired. I think those of us who do the research have this itch to be heard and try to be louder than the myths. It's like the ego takes a hit everytime an actress states her negative experience with corsetry. I am grateful for the reminder that I can come at this with a more conscientious mindset. Truly, this talk really was eye opening and I respect you a lot for your kindness and empathy!
Thank you!I feel like a lot of people in the costuming community are way too fixed on what they learn in seminars or costume school.I also dislike how they keep implying that costume designers have no knowledge because a garment is not accurate.Maybe decisions were made based on story lines,character traits and the director's aesthetics and not based on which exact year of the 1790's the film takes place...this is what artists do.
I have performed regularly in an opera chorus (not the Met). Our company rents costumes. Measurements are taken, costumes ordered. We have learned to add to the measurements (easier to take in than let out). Some costume companies seem to act on the "close enough" formula. Corsets are usually built into the costume. One time received a costume with the right waist measurement, but six inches above my actual waist (pressing on rib cage). Took 2 people to get me dressed. Totally emptying lungs, pushing in ribs, getting zipped before it became necessary to breath. That was painful. Also, we all invested in our own slip/chemise. Many times rented costumes are shipped directly to another company's production. You definitely want something between you and an improperly cleaned, ill fitting costume.
This is a really good counter argument to what a lot of vintage you tubers have been talking about. One thing is wearing a corset casually, another thing is having to wear one for a 10 hour shoot while you’re working.
I mean is no one gonna talk about the dress reform movement? All the famous feminists and suffragettes we know about, were advocating for change in women's fashion that often centered the idea that corsets should be optional. It was SO radical that Susan B Anthony tried it, and then went back to wearing corsets not because corsets are so great, but because dress reform was too radical. (I just was reading about this in an old issue of piecework magazine haha) Why would feminists of the past advocate for this if corsets are such wonderful things to constantly be wearing? When we say everyone should be comfortable in corsets and women who are not comfortable in corsets are wusses who aren't wearing them correctly- we deny the fact that there is actually more than one woman, and that we, as women, may actually feel differently from eachother about our bodies and what we wear. I work in the costume industry too- I have made corsets, worn corsets, and been a backstage dresser for people (of several genders) who wore corsets on stage. I have enjoyed wearing my corset, always over a shift, yet I wore it for too long in 100+ degree weather and got actual permanent skin problems from it. I have worked as a dresser for people who loved the corsets they wore in shows- and I have worked as a dresser for people who have hated their corsets and were miserable wearing them. Tight-lacing is usually worse for the performer than corsets that do not squeeze so much- and corsets with bust and hip padding to achieve shape instead of tight lacing are also usually more enjoyable for performers to wear. Thank you so much for making this video- if you can't tell I have a lot of feelings on the subject too and I'm very grateful that you started this conversation.
A few people have mentioned that actresses should be given time to get used to their corsets before filming, especially on big productions where there is time for sword fight training, workout regimes, etc. I agree this would help A Lot, but unfortunately just because the prep time for a film is very long, it doesn't mean that the costumes are ready to go at the beginning of that process. Costumes are often not finished until right before filming for a particular scene starts. Actresses may have a bit of power in the initial design of the character/costume (a la Emma Watson's "MY Belle doesn't wear a corset"), but they do not have the power to demand that expensive costumes be given to them to take home weeks before filming starts - the corset probably isn't finished yet, and even if it is there is too much risk that it would get damaged or lost. So yes, it would be very helpful (and I do hope it starts happening), but it would require a pretty big change in the way film productions operate.
Even giving them a modern off-the-rack corset before the official costume piece is ready would go a long way to get them used to moving, sitting, and eating in one.
in theatre, we tend to use rehearsal costume pieces later in the process to ready performers for the real bulky skirts, wacky shoes, or otherwise restricting garments. i wonder if that might be a good solution
A similar corset to the one she's going to wear would help immensely I think.
Actors and actresses often spend weeks if nit months training for stunts and fight scenes and longer prepairing physical aspects of their body to gain muscle or gain and lose weight. Although their fitted, on screen corset may not be ready, I think there should be some foresight in making sure an actor or actress can practice and train for something like a corset. If they have to wear it for the show or film, then they should be given the time to acclimate to it or else all the time training to do some stunt could be wasted because the actress isnt used to the corset. Giving them time to get a feel for the costume could also help the actor or actress give feedback to the designer making the final product. "This corset has this bit right here that digs into my back when I do this thing." Could be valuable feedback.
You have entirely missed the point of the whole argument. Literally everyone that I watched that has criticized actresses and industry for demonizing corsets has made clear that this is not about the actresses but about the misogyny behind depictions of corset use and that is boils down to historical, sexist, or comfort reasons. A couple of memes making fun of modern corset attitudes is not gaslighting. This whole video comes a "holier than thou", "woker than you" kind of discourse.
I just wish the film industry would take better care of their actresses.
Yes absolutely! So do I.
I also agree upon this as well.
The film industry in general needs to get better at taking care of human beings period. . . Twelve + hour days are tough on everyone.
Well, of the actors as well! Please. Equal rights. (Maybe even for the rest of the crews...)
100%!
While it is important to raise the standard of care of everyone on a film set, irrespective of their gender or job, actresses get a notoriously bad experience.
Chucking someone who's never worn a corset into an unseasoned corset and having them work all day is a recipe for a bad time so no wonder they hate them.
THIS!!!
Also, imagine your job. Imagine doing your job for 10... 12... 16 hours. Not fun, right? Now imagine doing your job in a brand new type of clothing that you've never worn before. Even less fun.
And if that clothing is an unseasoned corset, that's a barrel full of "no fun".
if they do want to put them in a corset I feel like they should let them know immediately they're casted & get them their own personal corset so they can get used to corsets on their own time before filming and rehearsal starts. could be wishful thinking but oh well
Especialy if it is cut to look good instead of fitting right, comfortable bone placement and even more so if the actress is not "educated" on it and worries about it. Thinking you can not breath is all that is needed to not being able to breath and that you have to change where you breath wearing a corset really does not help . . .
I do physical labor in my corsets and even if they are not broken in, they never give me trubble, but they are both fitted to my messures and use patterns, that are ment for reguar wear. I had the time to start slow and figure out what works. I love mine, they are coezy
But things like laceing uneven or to tight, bones that mesh unpleasently with your own, the corset coming up to high or to low, not wearing a chemise beneith, not putting the laces away properly and having them dig in . . . jet again, worrying about it and therefore carrying tension . . . there are so many causes of potential discomfort.
@@Luubelaar If you know what you are doing its ok, but everyone has different threshholds there. Anticipating that it will be bad pretty much ensures, that it will be. Fighting your corsett could very well turn unpleasent and even painful I can imagine.
Thinking you can not breath is all that is needed for you to struggle getting air, breathing in the direction you are used to being restricted understandably making it worse.
I wear my corsets right after getting them all day for my physicly strainious job, no problem. But before I started that, I already owned a waist corset I wore occasionaly, so while the shifting breath is different for fullbust and waist corsets, the concept itself was already knowen to me and I had a feeling for how to lace so it fits properly.
I had no discomfort at all, but being thrust into it, having all those nightmare tales in mind with no clue how to move in a corset and neither being provided with the right guidance or undergarment . . .
If bras can be uncomfortable when worn, even when it's correct size and fitted, so can corsets and any other piece of clothing.
This.
Then its not the correct fitting or size.
@@amalieshelby Having anything wrapped around my chest is uncomfortable. That's personal experience.
@@AB-gf4ue ok, I just wanted to make sure I understood what you where saying. Because it sounds contradicting but at the same time doesn't because your using your experience. That's all.
@@amalieshelbyThat's strange because I didn't think it's be at all contradicting.
This reminds me of a tweet I saw a year or two ago. Kim Kardashian was quoted in an interview saying that the corset she had to wear for her wet t-shirt met gala look made her feel pain worse than childbirth. A stage actress retweeted the article, saying that she did 8 shows a week singing and dancing in a corset, basically invalidating Kim's pain. But the difference is that the actress wore a corset specifically designed to be able to sing and dance in, while Kim's corset was designed to cinch her waist to an insane level, for a work of avante garde art. It wasn't the same. I admit that I also fell into the trap of discrediting actresses who complain abt corsets. But we all need to be a bit more compassionate, and yknow, believe women.
Kim Kardashian also has psoriatic arthritis, which I think a lot of people forget about because of all the intense work she puts into presenting the image that she does. I absolutely believe that it hurt that badly! You're right, compassion is so important. You never know what people are going through!
If you saw the video of her wearing the corset, there’s no way she’s lying. My jaw dropped when I saw it.
@@dallypurcy3113 Sexism in the drag community is a HUGE issue, I agree. But saying “most” drag queens feel that way about corsets or heels seems...misleading
I just gained respect for Kim K. if she can perform while in that kind of pain. I don't like her style but I respect professionalism.
@@dallypurcy3113 that's a bold generalization.
You nailed it. Spent quite a few years as a professional actor and have worn costumes on stage and on film sets. There is a huge difference between the stage and a film in that stage costume really has to be wearable for the long term, night after night every day of the week for however long the show runs. A film set or a photo shoot doesn’t have to be comfortable because once you’ve got the shots in the can that costume is toast. So there are very uncomfortable situations costume-wise - not alone in every other way - with a film set that is necessarily not true for the stage. I’ve seen costumes taped and pinned and glued just to get through a shoot. The other huge thing is that young actors are not - I repeat not - taught how to wear period costume. Hell, most young men (actors or not) can’t tie a simple necktie and that’s a contemporary article of clothing. Moving a gown with a train for the ladies or for the gentlemen -wearing a Roman toga? This require specialized experience and knowledge. Spoiler: even the Romans complained about men who couldn’t wear the toga correctly. Seriously even a Roman senator had a slave whose job was specifically to make sure his master’s toga looked fabulous at all times. (He was called a togator.)
Yes, absolutely! Thank you for this! My experience is all on the making side of things rather than the acting side, but I prefer making theatre costumes over film costumes for exactly this reason - it’s just nicer making things that are intended to last. I can definitely imagine they’re nicer to wear too. I can’t believe I forgot to talk about that with all the rambling I managed to do while filming. Thank you for your insight, and I love that even the Romans struggled with togas!
I think it definitely depends on the production and the budget and who's in charge. Film costumes often should be able to endure a fair amount especially because depending on the production there are often more variables to take in to account.
Also on film a pin or some glue is much more likely to be noticed. Sounless it was for an extra or something that doesn't sound like it was a great idea.
Depending on the film and costume film costumes aren't always made for comfort albeit but they should be able to endure a lot because of many reasons. Stunt people may have to wear identical costumes. The actors might do some small stunts or they might just have to be outside in different terrain or have staging that involves a lot movement. It should be able to endure at least a couple hours of this. There are many reasons why costumes for film need to be made to last especially when the audience is much closer and can see if something is not made well and is falling apart. Basically it's not always comfortable but it should be able to endure a lot.
I will admit I am not a professional, I am only an aspiring costume designer and a pretty skilled seamstress. (I hate to sound full of myself, especially as I'm not yet professionally trained (I've applied to college for that and will start learning professionally and getting to focus most of my time and energy on it next year), but I have made multiple historical pieces often with some supervision and guidance from my mentor over the last 8 years.) Also I have shadowed on sets and I have interned in the costume industry and know people in the industry including my parents. So I know how things work. Point is I'm not a professional yet but I am still pretty knowledgeable about this.
I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my brain is a mess.
@@madisonm.4535 Just keep in mind pins etc. are only more likely to be noticed if they are in the shot! When I was at film school a friend worked on an advertisement where one of the costumes was too big for the actor so they pinned it at the back when the actor was seen from the front, then hurriedly repinned for the next shot and so on!
@@jokiskywalker5417 Yup. Or the really common thing for the leads in a movie with a lot of action/weather activity, where there's 10+ versions of the same costume (with/without various marks or tears), so no one garment has to be versatile or particularly durable (especially the detailed ones for closeups). This is from interviews with people in charge of costumes for big ticket superhero films, and my observations as a casual extra.
Makes me think of Grease and Olivia Newton-John being sown into her tight leather pants. She couldn't even go to the bathroom.
It not unheard of for Actors and Actresses doing harmful things to themselves for a part.
Instead of a suitcase, think of a fancy backpack. Sold guaranteed to be super comfortable. And then you walk 20 miles with 30kilos weight, and super comfortable takes on a new meaning.
Yes! That’s a great comparison
I swear my arms were numb after a few long portages on one canoe trip I went on. That pack was fabulous, and my back was fine, but my shoulders and the soles of my feet ached. The canoe was also the lightest one I’ve ever seen, made of Kevlar and resin. I think that trip was a two week trip, I remember the feeling of the sensation returning to my arms to this day.
Or those hiking boots, that seemed to fit you like a gloove, but apparently weren't broken in quite well enough, after all.
And oh, the fun of putting them on again the next morning, on your already sore and blistered feet.
And yeah, any kind of backpack (no matter the weight) will hurt my back after a while. Despite doing strength training and all that. No idea, what the reason is, but the pain can become quite hellish. If wearing an ill-fitting or newly made corset is anywhere near as painful, I definitely sympathize. And then having to smile and act and look radiantly beautiful at the same time...🥴
@@raraavis7782 the boots where if you just could find the right thickness of socks...
@@raraavis7782If you find a lumbar pack or fanny pack with a padded hip belt, they can work for day hikes, they are usually meant to set the weight on your hip bones instead of having anything on your back or shoulders. That’s what I do for day hikes to avoid the numb hands.
The thing that annoys me the most is misinformation.
It’s definitely true that wearing anything for 12 hours, you’re gonna notice any little thing even slightly uncomfortable. The problem is that unlike shoes or bras (which also get very uncomfortable after that length of time), corsets are newsworthy. They stand out. So they get the attention that other wardrobe items don’t.
I’m also of the opinion that tight lacing occurs on set far too often. Not just scenes that depict tight lacing, but generally, whenever an actress is wearing a corset.
I’ve also seen in some (though not all) films, corsets that don’t look quite right for the period. By which I mean that they might have been custom made, but to a more modern pattern rather than a period accurate pattern. And because a certain shape is expected, directors or other employees on set might then expect that shape to come from tight lacing, rather than patterning and padding- which although historically accurate, is not something I’ve seen much of in period films.
I wouldn’t discount the experiences of actresses (though I would question how sensationalised their words were made after interviews). But I don’t think that films are treating actresses how they should. I’m not sure that enough period films have historical dress experts both in design and on set to make sure that things are done correctly, rather than done with a more modern (mis)understanding of how the clothing worked.
That’s what I personally mean when I say things aren’t fit correctly or aren’t worn correctly. That maybe they’re not using the correct patterns, or using padding, or tight lacing, or all of the above.
I also do get a little annoyed at actresses who were forced into very small, tight laced corsets (which isn’t their fault), but who then complain about how awful corsets are generally, and their terrible stomach pain.... after drinking a bunch of fizzy drinks while wearing said very constrictive corset. That is a bit frustrating.
Though I grant that it’s possible that the interview on which this information was disseminated might have twisted her words? I hope so.
But I do live in hope that all of the recent corset defending makes it to the wars of actresses, who are then empowered to demand that their bodies be treated with respect. Who demand well made, correctly fitting corsets that don’t injure them. Because they deserve that.
There’s definitely a lot more to it than I could have covered even in a video 3x as long. These are excellent points, thank you for taking the time to share them.
I completely agree with you on tightlacing, I think it comes from most people having so little knowledge of corsets. It’s even happened to me on photo shoots where someone was helping the model get dressed and started yanking on the laces like they’d come straight out of “gone with the wind”... which is just totally unnecessary and uncomfortable.
And there’s definitely a lot more that could be done in terms of accuracy and fit, though I would add that modern corsets can be as comfortable as historical ones (and give the right silhouette) when they’re fitted well. But I agree that a lot of what happens is probably how you’ve described - dressers thinking that the shape should come from yanking. Hopefully with all those myth busting videos the information will eventually trickle out to the general public. Though I do think most wouldn’t care one way or the other - uninformed but indifferent about it... But we can hope.
I get annoyed about the generalisation of “all corsets are bad because mine was” too, but do feel for them as well if no one gave them the information they needed. I mean Keira Knightley worked as a “corset consultant” on “Colette”, rather than hiring someone with some actual corset experience, so I do feel that there must be a lot of misinformation just bouncing around between this little group. I do hope some of the info from corset makers and wearers starts to make its way to them so they can use it to inform their decisions, but I worry that it’s a double edged sword - if a video about how corsets shouldn’t be uncomfortable has made it to an actress, it probably made it to some male director too, who will then use it to say “no no. Corsets aren’t uncomfortable when they’re fitted well and we paid a lot of money to make sure it was fitted well. You’re fine.” I do hope things improve though, they do deserve better.
Yes, I think a main issue for film actresses is that often they and filmmakers, producers, etc, want them to look as thin as possible, so they are always tightlaced. They never get to wear one just for basic support and shaping. Like Lily James in "Cinderella," the people involved aim for the teeniest waist.
And if you watch the new "Miss Scarlet" on PBS, you see wear the modern eye is dictating the shape, i.e a Late Victorian with a corsets giving them inaccurately board-flat lower abdomens instead of the (realistically, comfortably) curved lower belly of historical corsets and gowns of the time.
The main thing I got out of this video is that actresses aren't being properly costumed, and are basically being treated poorly on set. This is not a revelation. But then again, I never thought that any actresses were lying.
The point that we are looking from a modern point of view instead of a historically accurate one is a good one that needs to be focused on more.
The thing is, I didn't see anything about Emma Watson stating anything about having a poor experience with corsets. I was under the impression that she didn't want to wear one because of "feminism". I do have a problem with that. Because, quite frankly, her continuing to spread misinformation about corsets, and refusing to wear one because of that misinformation, is anti-feminist. She would be the perfect person to educate about historical costuming and to advocate for the changing of the idealized shape that currently defines that era in film.
Do not try and make me feel sorry for someone working long hours in Hollywood in uncomfortable clothing. That is the weakest argument in this video. I've worked 12 hour days in uncomfortable uniforms which consisted of restrictive clothing inappropriate footwear. And I've done it for a lot less money than these actresses are getting paid. Yes, they should be able to have costumes that are as comfortable as possible (while still keeping within the spirit of the story). But this also includes costume pieces outside of corsets, like shoes, hats, masks and pretty much anything else that you might not want to wear all day, every day, for weeks on end.
We absolutely should advocate for actresses to get treated better. This has been an issue in Hollywood since the inception of film. Women being forced to do nude scenes they are uncomfortable with, being abused to get performances out of them, the list goes on and on. But I am also absolutely going to call out someone for misinformation. Emma Watson refusing to wear a corset added nothing to that discussion. It did not help out the actresses in the next period drama, who might end up tight-laced into ill fitting corsets. All it did was show that if you get to be a big enough star, you can make your own rules. And, quite frankly, not many actresses are going to reach her level of star power.
Your point about shoes or bras is bang on. I remember seeing just one interview with Isla Fischer when she made "Confessions of a shopaholic". In the film, her character tottered about in skyscraper heels. It does look humorous and that was the intended effect. Thing is, that meant Isla was tottering about in these heels for months on end of potentially very long days. She said in the interview that it was utterly murder on her feet and legs, despite the fact they were high quality, properly fitting shoes. Just once did I hear about this. But make it a corset and suddenly it's every interview for the rest of your career.
I'd add that historical films tend to assume all time periods pre-bra used corsets (and one style of corset at that). The time period for Beauty and the Beast would have used stays, not corsets. Silhouettes and the undergarments to achieve them changed throughout history, yet the perception is anything old timey must have been a corset.
Honestly there was a lot beyond the underwear wrong with the Beauty and the Beast ballgown. While stays would have helped they wouldn't have fixed it completely.
We don't want to discredit (let alone attack) actresses for sharing their experiences, but--and I say this as someone who works in costuming in film--we can't stop holding the film industry accountable for the comfort and safety of actors. And I do think we need to keep shouting that historical costumes should NEVER hurt, and they need to be fitted and worn properly, until the everyone in the film industry--not just the costumers or the actresses--cannot excuse themselves from handling the 'costume' aspect of a costume drama correctly. People are literally watching these films to see the costumes, but producers and directors don't have a clue about period costume and experts are simply left out of the loop. It's just mind-boggling to me that producers and planners can arrange to have actors go through months of physical training, take horseback riding lessons, take dance lessons, learn a new accent, or do god knows what else to prepare for their roles, but we can't arrange to have underpinnings (not even the full costume--just the underpinnings!) made a few weeks before the shoot, and costumers don't get time with their actresses to fine-tune fitting, season corsets, or train posture and movement. And for fucks' sake, if we can't find a wardrobe assistant who knows how to lace down and won't forget the corset liner, then maybe that needs to be a better-trained and better-paid position.
We need to remember that for every leading actress in a high-budget movie complaining about her custom-made corset, certainly for her own reasons, there are still hundreds more actresses, maybe with smaller parts and lower budgets, who actually are getting crammed into cheap chinese off-the-racks and being asked to move around all day. And we need to remember that it's not just corsets. It's shoes. It's hairstyles. It's hats. It's ties. It's jackets. It's clothes too hot. It's clothes too cold. It's wet clothes. It's sweaty clothes. It's scratchy embellishments. And you know what, I've been there. I've been the costumer who was up until 3am tailoring a jacket for a shoot that calls at 5am, coming in to hear my extras complain that their shoulders are too tight and the hat pin is pulling and their hands are cold and...not wanting to hear it. They really do put you in a position where you're giving everything you have and your actors STILL don't get taken care of properly, more so the lower down on the hierarchy they are.
Yes to all of this. It’s such a complex issue, and there are so many problems with films that stretch far beyond corsets. I would never want people to stop pushing the idea that corsets shouldn’t be painful, I was just feeling fed up with a (small!) part of the community that jumps to blame the costume makers or the actresses, when there are so many other things to take into account. I absolutely agree that films push people too hard, particularly those lower in the hierarchy. It’s one of the main reasons I prefer being in an independent workshop, even if you’re working on a big project you can stay out of (most) of the insane pressure (and I hate early mornings haha). I really hope that things start improving as more and more stories come out, but maybe that’s naive, I guess some people up top will always care more about the money...
Fellow industry costumer here! You raise so many excellent points and I really enjoyed your video. There is also the extra issue of something that you wear for 15mins in a fitting can feel like it fits perfectly, then after 10 hours on set you realise it pinches and rubs horrible. This happens so often in my experience with shoes but its a lot easier to go and buy a different size pair of shoes than it is to re-make a custom corset.
Thank you Claude ❤️ That’s a really good point, another thing that didn’t even come to mind when filming. The shoe analogy is spot on too!
There's also the fact that corsets/stays, like shoes, take time to wear in. On stage you generally get a little bit of time to do that, not so much in film.
Yes same! I would also add for me, going off the shoe analogy (because I have funny triangle shaped feet) i have comed to realize in my adult life that I don't think I have ever known what fitting shoes even feel like. I can definitely see that being a problem too for actresses who have never worn a corset before.
@@michaelhandy4018 That's an excellent point! I've worked as an extra in film and TV, and have done the 12 hr day in a corset before on set, along with a couple of friends of mine who were in both costuming and the fetish communities. We weren't exactly comfortable by the end of the day, but we were faring far better than the lead actresses, from what we could overhear, and I have some educated guesses as to why. Unlike the leads, we were all wearing custom corsets from our own wardrobes that were well worn in, were shaped to our bodies, and had some give to them. We were also used to wearing corsets, in that they were our standard wear for a night out dancing, or for one pal who worked as a Pro-Dominatrix, her work uniform. I'd also done some work at a local historical site, and was used to volunteering on weekends in a corset. These actresses were being thrown into the deep end without knowing how to swim, while we extras were Olympic level divers in the world of corsetry. We laughed behind their backs at the time, but maturity and reflection has lent me a more sympathetic point of view now.
I run the mounted archery costuming site on Facebook and we advise people to practice in an outfit prior to a competition or a demo, especially since riding and archery both entail a lot of joint movements in the hip and shoulder. A wool tunic that I bought from a medieval store made it difficult to draw a bow so I’ve just used that for photo shoots where I’m posing and accuracy doesn’t matter as much. As much as I would have loved an embroidered linen Ukrainian blouse, I realized that a long sleeved white shirt from Walmart was much more practical and I didn’t care much if it got covered in horse slobber and dust. But yes, actually do what you want to do in an historical outfit before deciding if it fits
After a recent back injury, I'd also argue that, at the intersection of "long hours" and "personal preference" there's the matter of posture and muscle pain. If you're used to standing in a specific way, and suddenly you're being forced to stand in a completely different way all day every day, you're going to have muscles you didn't even know existed before screaming at you to STOP IT PLEASE. And many styles of corsets definitely do impact your posture quite a bit. That's not a bad thing in itself, but it's like doing an exercise you've never done before. You need to ease into it.
I've been a film extra & double double for several years now, and I'm SO pro-corset! While everything you've said in this video is entirely valid, I just thought i'd share a few of my personal experiences.
Extras don't make the headlines for complaining about their corsets because a) the tabloids aren't interested in us, and b) if an extra complains, we're a burden, so we tend to suffer in silence unless it's unbearable, and even then we feel that we risk getting on the costume department's bad side- not something you wanna do when they're the ones strapping you into the thing and deciding 'how much you breathe' that day.
I was once informed I wouldn't need a corset because I was 'already skinny enough'; I was told this as if it were something I should be happy and excited about- but that day filming was miserable, as all my Victorian petticoats hung heavily off my hips (rather than having the weight nicely distributed on my waist with the protective barrier of the corset) and absolutely destroyed my posture. I've insisted on wearing one for period dramas ever since.
Which then frustrated me to no end when I heard about the fact Emma Watson's 'no-corset-rule' on The Beauty and The Beast was extended to the extras as well. I've since met multiple extras who were on that movie who suffered in a similar way for the sake of Watson's display of feminism.
Most- if not every period drama I've been on will have made sure to comfortable fit or hand-craft the lead actress' corsets so they fit perfectly. Unlike the extras, where they'll often just hire a large number of corsets from the Angel's Warehouse in approximate sizes and hope everyone is assigned a relatively comfortable one at their fitting.
I once body-doubled for a young actress who was particularly notorious for ripping herself out of her costume at the end of the day - one of her outfits consisted of a pretty iconic (custom-made for the actress) corset, and I was warned multiple times that this was especially tight. They refused to dress me until the last moment so that I wouldn't have to suffer in it for too long, and they told me that if I needed a break, to not be afraid to ask. But it was in-fact one of the most comfortable I had ever worn, which took them all very much by surprise.
As for time, yes... every single person without fail, after over fourteen hours in a corset will breathe a sigh of relief to be back in their tank top and jeans at the end of the day- me included.
Yes, I'd never want to gaslight someone and invalidate their experiences wearing one- I only have my history to base my knowledge on. I had never worn a corset before becoming a film-extra, but now i'm quite used to them. Also, I've NEVER been on a set where they've had us wear corsets on bare skin- I cannot imagine.
Thank you for sharing! It’s been great hearing from so many people who are on the other side of it - something I didn’t expect when I posted this. The weight distribution thing is an excellent point, definitely an advantage. It’s also been terrific to hear that many sets DO put something under corsets! Since I usually only go on set when I have to for work, most of my on-set experience is with prop-y stuff, and there often aren’t that many considerations made for comfort - especially with extras, as you said.
Thank you for sharing, it's nice to hear something from the extras on that movie's feelings on the situation (even if it wasn't you directly).
I always feel like the whole controversy was less about the corset or even feminism and really just a marketing tactic. That may just be me being cynical though, maybe she really did believe in it. Though I wonder if anyone else on set who was inconvenienced by the corsets/stays not being allowed was ever able to explain this point of view to her.
If the extras 'suffered' then that's the costume designer's fault. The reality is that it was extremely common for french women in that era to go without boned support garments (see Jul LeCours videos for reference). The costume designers should have been able to provide comfortable, period accurate clothing for the extras that didn't incorporate corps de baleen (the french word for boned stays).
I'm so happy this was recommended to me, I hope everyone with even a passing interest in this topic sees your video. It's honestly so disheartening to see people go from "here are some misconceptions about corsets" to "anyone who complains about corsets is LYING for the publicity". I think you addressed this very well!
Thank you! That’s very kind of you to say ☺️
I agree. This is,what I believe, is the best and most correct way this subject has ever been treated properly....kudos Lina
yeah exactly, i feel like i've seen that sentiment amongst historical costumers on youtube, even ones that i like and trust to cover other topics well. i guess if historical costuming is your life's passion, it's probably frustrating when people misunderstand it. So costumers feel the need to defend corsets, but in the process they forget to look at it from the perspective of people who are not as knowledgeable about the fashion, and whose limited exposure to it was a genuinely bad experience.
Yeah and then they start lying about how "men made up myths of faiting to stop women from wearing them" when in reality men wrote those stories of women fainting to jerk off and the corset feel out of popularity due to being expensive during the great depression.
I think Sewing Through the Past (inadvertently) proved your point. She went running in a corset made for her, trying to prove it won't be uncomfortable or make you faint. She had worn it before on a theater set, day in day out, after easing into it beforehand, and been comfortable, even on long days. A few months later, she did the run. Twist: she not hadn't worn her corset since, her body had changed a bit... And she had a noticeably worse time of it.
Ah I love her channel! I had totally forgotten about that video! But yes it’s definitely a good point, maybe actresses do the same - assume that because they were fine by the end of the last film that the next one will be better?
I work as an electric in film and I can confirm that the 12 hour standard, up to 18 hours for us and longer for locations days are really harsh. You would not believe how quickly I upgraded my boots and bras and how much I am willing to spend on them just to not be in severe physical pain at the end of the day. I can completely see an actress who doesn't usually wear a corset being in utter suffering by hour 8 let alone hour 12. If you've never worked on a film set. It's not glamourous. It's a lot of hurry up and wait. The hours are hella long. And the weather only affects the filters we use. Nothing short of an electrical storm or a tornado cancels a film shoot. Pack for the weather always.
I wouldn't consider it gaslighting actresses, because for the most part what I've seen is historical costumers being upset with writers and television wardrobe for making ill-fitting corsets and/or writing tightlacing scenes. I definitely believe the actresses were uncomfortable, and why wouldn't they be when they weren't wearing it properly, or having them made for their body.
Oh I wasn’t talking about the tightlacing scenes! I’m not a fan of those either, I guess I should have clarified.
Tight lace scene has propose in show unconfortability with serve some narratives how ever don't need to be in every period time, that is space for be created and historical accurate
I was an extra in a big budget film and had a corset made for me. I was laced in at 5AM and didn't take it off until 8:30PM, and spent most of the day climbing up and down a ladder! I had absolutely no problem breathing, eating, or climbing said ladder. To me, the costumers were angels and I was completely in awe of their skill. However, another girl in the same scene as me, with a corset made by that same team, felt ill all day and barely made it through without crying. Yeah...experiences can be pretty different.
I think that maybe another issue with stays/corsets on filmsets is that directors/producers etc want the actress to achieve the slimmest waist possible overnight. They don't want the actress just to wear it, they want certain fancy siluette in minutes. And that's not what an everyday corset user would do. Because it's a bad idea, basically.
The more I learn about historical undergarments and layering the more I'm impressed with our ancestors. People acheived desired shapes by being selective about their textiles and using strategic padding. Tight lacing was not a thing. Natural fibres are also SO much nicer than synthetics for every day wear assuming you understand how dress to a climate/the weather.
I think there is a lot of confusion around what corsets and stays actually are. Traditionally, corsets had little to no boning and were soft. Stays were heavily boned and stiff. Very different in terms of structure and functionality.
I think one of the arguments I am not seeing is that actresses are generally slim and work out, so their waistline doesn't have a great deal of give in it, yet the desired look the director wants is the tiny waist. So what is a costumer going to do? make a comfortable corset with as much reduction as is comfortable for that 12 hour day (as far as possible?) or are they going to do their job and sinch in the lady as much as possible to the desired result? The actress will also agree to the look. You are not just moving the fat around like with many modern wearers, you are probably pinching muscle and bone instead. I've seen bigger women talk about how comfortable their corset is and how they can move and even bend, but that wouldn't feel the same on a bonethin actress.
Exactly. When someone is bone thin the illusion was historically achieved through padding! People seriously always forget about that
@@Saf333 Yeah there is no way they are going to pad out a size zero actress other than her boobs in historical costume, must achieve 5 inches reduction! I bet they get bruised up. But are willing to "suffer for the part".
I was bound up in costume once, not even a corset but a long wrap around in a traditional indonesian wedding ensemble and it didn't just compress my waist but the ribs in that extra space you use for breathing. People that don't count corsets done up tight as restrictive at all are just not being fair, any inches you reduce come from a place you normally need. Though fat moves more easily of course if it has somewhere to go.
@@Iflie sadly I know... Pads are easier to make too though... Like...
@@Saf333 Of course, there is just no change they will intrude on the idea of "small" on camera, pretty sure they even nip in waistlines and increase bums in post production in the superhero movies but these don't have that budget. Directors are also often men.
@@Iflie I honestly want to shove those directors into ill fitting corsets on their naked body and then have them run a marathon. ☺️ Male corsets exist you know...
As I heard it, Emma Watson did not wear a corset in Beauty and the Beast. Not because she found them uncofortable, but because she refused to wear one as she thought them demeaning to women, a sign of how women have been suppressed in the past, or something like that.
It was also because she did not want another Disney princess to have a super tiny waist as it sets a bad example for young girls. Which I think is pretty considerate and ALSO it's a fairy tale movie, not a historical piece so I don't know why everyone complains so much about it.
@@noreng4933
Maybe because it's utter woke BS?
@@noreng4933 I’m sure she had good intentions and I get her not wanting to have a tiny waist but wearing a corset doesn’t immediately equal tightlacing. It seemed to me like she was making a fuzz about corsets being “oppressive” to women when they existed to make their day-to-day more comfortable. They were necessary support garments equal to the modern-day bra, and they also provided hip support bc of the amount of clothing layers women wore at the time. Beauty and The Beast might be a fairy tale but it’s clearly set in a specific time period. It makes no sense for her to have claimed that corsets are “anti-feminist” when they were simply undergarments meant to provide support.
A corset isn't historical for that time period anyway
Even if she doesn’t cinch the waist, it still gives an hourglass figure which only 5-15% of women have (depends on genetics/ethnicity/nationality) so that’s already unrealistic for most women. Also, “support” isn’t a good thing for most people. The more support you give your abs and back muscles, then the more lazy they become, the muscles atrophy, and eventually you’ll end up with back problems, hip problems and a few months later you’ll definitely need professional help. I’ve seen this happen (not with corsets per se) where someone unbalances the original dynamic of the anatomical structure, and it can take years to correct a couple of months of mistakes.
I’ve never thought the complaints by actresses about corsets and costuming were overblown. If they were experiencing pain and discomfort I’m sure its real.
my initial thought would be because the directors would force their actresses to wear them too tight because * sex appeal *
Part of the problem is that there is no time given to be eased into the costumes. If you look at big budget productions where the protagonist has to have a certain body type? They get time to work out. Why not for corsets. Why not give them a freaking month to get comfortable. It does make a huge difference - because having the right corset/stays makes such a difference to the shape, the figure (which again, if you need to work out for, you often get time for). But somehow, big movie companies never listen to me, so I guess this is not gonna happen soon.
Thanks for your speech-driven video, btw. You made your point clear and simple. I liked the argument of the working hours, it is easy to forget just how long leading ladies often have to wear them without being able to get used to them.
Because giving them work out time is important for the aesthetics, while how comfortable workers are is irrelevant to the investors. Our society also has the idea that women just have to learn to deal with uncomfortable clothes, so of course no one gives a damn that the actresses feel bad. They make them run in high heels, you think they care if the corset gives them a rash?
Also... “time to workout” is kinda a gross understatement. Those actors (and sometimes actresses but unless she’s a Major Name they’ll hire the skinny girl over the chubby woman. And often she’s already thin or dangerously close to being underweight before being forced to change her body) are forced to drop 15 or MORE pounds in an insanely short amount of time. That is NOT Healthy. The flip is also true-forcing actors and actresses to gain 15 or more pounds instead of hiring a plus sized actor or using a fat suit with their costuming. And every time they’re Shirtless? They have to fast-including water-for about 48-72 hours just for that shot. Nevermind any retakes. They need an IV Drip STAT.
Point is? Terrible counter example, and the film industry doesn’t give a shit about the actresses’ and actors’ health&safety.
Seven-of-Nine nearly dying because of her silver exoskeleton corset costume is only an example of Extreme Costuming and...it hasn’t gotten better since then at all
So a combination of having a short period of time/having no time to acclimatize to wearing the corset, having to wear said corset for long periods of time on film sets, having to wear the corset without a chemise for 'stylistic' purposes/increasing sex appeal (which I think is kinda rooted in sexism) which means anywhere the corset rubs against skin is intensified and finally the media sensationalising what these actress say about their corsets (which means the media is anti-corset because I've never seen a news article about an actresses' experiences with blistering feet after working on set but maybe they do print those articles but I don't read the news enough to encounter them)
The “not wearing a shift or chemise” gets me because there’s a difference between a practical corset and a fetish/sex corset. And a lot of men do complain about skin tight superhero outfits, it just doesn’t get as sensationalized as the women complaining about corsets. Supposedly Chadwick Bozeman hated his outfit for Black Panther
The blistering feet point is such a good example!
We know that movies from the 30s/40s/50s have stories of actresses feet bleeding after they had to dance for 6 hours trying to get the right take, wearing a dress with weights to get the fabric to flow right, dancing a super complicated long one-take scene bc it’s too difficult to cut in the middle so they have to get it in one, resulting in battered bruised legs and bleeding aching feet 💀
We don’t publish ridiculously intense articles about the heels and hyper-strength shapewear/duct tape setups celebs use because that’s become normalized within society as, maybe a bit intense, but otherwise standard way to dress/clothing to wear, while corsets have been shunted back into being considered ‘old school torture devices’ (even though heels are more painful and dangerous for basic everyday wear than a properly made/fitted corset, let alone for actions scenes etc in film) for some inane reason.
The fact that heels survived history to still be considered modern and acceptable despite hundreds of studies on the damage they cause but corsets, which (when worn properly+not tightlaced) are only dragged out in historical curiosity + to be mocked ‘look at how barbaric they were back in the day! Now get back into those heels’ is crazy to me.
Finally someone with commen sense! Corsets are also not "like bras". They are like corsets. They are more restrictive no matter how comfortable. Sometimes I like exactly that, sometimes I don't.
And just because corsets performed the same ROLE as bras do now doesn't mean that they are identical to bras.
I don’t like something restricting my breathing. I worked HARD to breathe properly (I’m a singer) so anything that’s going to force me to breathe from the Chest or Neck vs Abdomen (not literally, this is a generalization about how you pull your air and what part of the body you see expand), Not A Fan. And needing a chamise underneath then the corset them the top? Also pass. Looks like a fantastic way to get heat stroke-and yes I’m prone to that.
And, binders are essentially similar to corsets, but there are so many cautionary tales about where to buy and how long to wear one for, and them apparently causing damage that prevent transmen and enby people from getting topsurgery
Which, I don’t like my bras, either. But at least I have the hope of Someday finding a fitting one. But even a poorly fitted bra isn’t going to mess with my breathing or eating, and it’s a lot less fabric so No Heatstroke. -a poorly fitting one’s just gonna pinch nerves and give me migraine symptoms instead. I just can’t win-
Anyway.
For The Boobs garnments SHOULD be fine, but any little thing WRONG and it is NOT GOOD.
@@anonymousfellow8879 are you anit-corsets? Your argument is saying that most singers shouldn't have one because you cant breathe? Then you also say that corsets are good for support in the boobs are great.
1) if I have that correct, you should know that if it way too tight or lacing it way too tight, just like bras makes it hard to breathe and that common sense.
2) corsets are not just for boobs to support, it's to support the whole torso. With correct sizing and fitting and properly lacing its very breathable and you can still use your adbom no problem and your chest no problem.
3) I will agree that not everyone like or loves corsets, but just like modern clothes you'll have issues if you don't have to proper sizing fitting and comfort.
@Amalie Shelby
I literally saw a procorset video that’s (surprise surprise) verging on Toxic Positivity for them-and she was wearing it correctly. But everything about that garnment was a Hard Pass.
You want your belly to expand when you breathe, not your chest. Guess what a corset Encourages-or at least the style she wore. Also, so much fabric. No chamise/tshirt and hello worse chaffing than a miserable bra. Not great for people prone to overheating, have sensitive skin ‘cause clogged pores so hello rash, and it didn’t even work for modern clothing. Anything that restricts portion size because it restricts how the abdomen expands (even when NOT laced too tight) is a step backwards.
Yes correct misinformation. But the Pro crowd are so LOUD about “this is the best thing ever and if you disagree you are the WORST” when it just isn’t going to work for everyone. Maybe other styles are supportive without demanding organs and muscles stay “tucked”. But trying to do a search only pulls up ones that look more like fetish wear than something actually wearable as an undergarment with normal clothing.
@@anonymousfellow8879 and? I watched it too. Also I'm just trying to understand your statement in the beginning and you halfway ignored what I was saying. Im just trying to understand your personal reasons that's all. I know corest isn't for everyone. I know there are different styles of them as well. I make my own and do my own research.
I only used tight lacing as an example as to what MOST people believe. I understand that nit everyone would enjoy wearing them for many different reasons. I'm still learning about them every single day and seeing mistakes all the time. I'm not saying
"Everyone need them" I'm saying that people should look into it if they are curious and want to know more. If people are against it and they have their own reasons with it without much research I would like to know why they believe that with them backing up their statement.
AGAIN I UNDERSTAND that not everyone loves corests.
I'm so very much aware that theres a lot of mis information out there in the world but when is there not about anything?
I have been frustrated with how people have covered this topic in the past (making fun of actresses, saying they were lying) and I really appreciate your perspective. Thank you!
Honestly, me too! It's why I stopped watching corset videos. I found it interesting at first, but got really tired of the attitude in both videos and ESPECIALLY comments sections that acted like anyone who didn't think corsets were the best piece of clothing ever invented were part of some conspiracy or something. Like, what does anyone have to gain by lying about a corset being uncomfortable for them? And as this video points out, working/environmental conditions can play a major factor!
Thank you for this great video @Lina Piprek!
I imagine wearing a corset on a movie set is similar to wearing a bra on the first day after lockdown
Oh my god great point, I don't think I've seen an underwire in months, it's not going to be pleasant 💀
@@juno5756 yeah, just make sure that the bra is two sizes too small and wear it with the straps twisted. It's not just wearing a corset, it's wearing a tight corset without any undergarments below.
Oh my god! Best comment ever 😂😂😂
i wore a real bra yesterday and it fits correctly but damn it hurt after a few hours
I’ve permanently switched to bralettes 😂. I’m never going back. I work for myself, so no one can make me 😂
Thank you for this video. I am a little bit tired of all the corset defending videos - so it is nice to hear the other arguments and considerations you've pointed out. I differ in terms of a chemise, because I don't think the audience would be overly irritated by it, and period dramas pre 1990s showed actresses wearing chemises under corsets. I believe it, when a leading actress says she felt uncomfortable at a certain point, but the question itself also shows how much the corset is turned into a mythical object of torture.
Thanks! Yeah it’s not so much that I think the general public would mind if there were shifts (I genuinely think most people are clueless about historical fashion and couldn’t care less one way or the other), but that it’s an endless cycle of not including them, so people get used to not seeing them, so filmmakers think it won’t matter if they leave them out and show some cleavage instead. I rambled an awful lot when I was filming this, the version in the video was the most coherent I could get it 🙈 And yeah totally agree on the corset questions! Almost reminds me of always asking who designed red carpet looks... like interviewers think that’s the only topic worth discussing after someone stars in a period drama.
@@LinaPiprek After all, one could always have the shift.... Artfully Cut to show off as much clevage and collarbone-age as possible, regardless of how high the neckline would have been in that period historically
👏👏👏 Well said! I don't have experience on a film production, but my experience doing faire reenacting sounds a little similar-- 12-hour days on your feet, surprisingly strenuous performances, et c. I can 100% confirm that my corset which felt fine during a 2-hour rehearsal was suddenly not fine for 12 hours singing and dancing on a concrete floor. +1 for the film industry giving greater priority to actors' comfort, and greater recognition for just how demanding the work is.
That definitely sounds similar! The point I wanted to make was that the situation affects comfort, and of course that’s the case outside of film sets too. Faire reenacting sounds exhausting - I have to say I prefer the version I do where I can curl up in a corner and sew all day 😅 Thank you for sharing! ❤️
Under the Personal Preference one I think about bras.
There are some people that loathe bras ( I.e the “burn your bra” movement ). There are even some people that become uncomfortable in a non-wire ones
and then there are people (me) who Will Not wear a traditional bra but feel very uncomfortable without a sports bra or other non-cup'd-boob-support-garment.
Thank you for bringing film experience into this.
In regards to the long hours on set causing discomfort, I'd also like to add that, from my own experience, the heat generated from certain lighting (both stage & film), hot weather & the inability to use air-con (because of noise etc.), can make even one layer of modern clothes, & just a bra & undies underneath, become uncomfortable.
As well as for creative/logistic reasons etc., I assume that another reason that a chemise/shift might not be worn, could be the idea that reducing the number of layers would reduce the chance of overheating; but one could still get hot. Having a hot, sweaty body sticking or rubbing against the boning (& possibly tight synthetic fabric) for hours on end, would not only be uncomfortable, it could potentially cause blisters. 🤔😬
Wear chemises, please...s. 😅 xo
I really appreciate hearing this from your perspective, especially the compassion you have for these actresses. In the costuming community it's easy to get caught up in defending corsets, but your points are a reminder that we never know the whole story and we can't claim to know the personal experiences of these women. Thank you for posting this!
Thank you!
Emma not wearing a corset had nothing to do with corsets and everything to do with perception - they are perceived as literal women oppression. If bras werent a norm, she would have refused to wear one of those too. Its unfortunate because her wardrobe as Belle was frumpy and her posture was nothing to write home about
In my opinion, hollywood and the film industry in general are to blame for the corset’s bad reputation. They were undergarments meant to provide support. They weren’t always tightlaced either. I’ve seen some fashion historians compare them to the modern-day bra. They provided comfort (given the amount of layers women wore at the time) and they were very effective. Nowadays, there’s people out there saying all sorts of bs. That corsets were “torture machines meant to oppress women” and other nonesense.
Also yes I agree that her costume in Beauty and The Beast wasn’t right. Someone in the comments said it didn’t matter because this was a fairy tale and not a historical movie, but in my opinion that’s no excuse. The movie is set in a clear time period, the costume designer should’ve found an alternative for Emma to wear so as not to lose the silhouette associated with whatever the year the movie is set in.
I really think Emma gets too much shite for that, corsets not being a death trap still isn't common knowledge
All of these misconceptions are still very prevalent, especially in Hollywood
And there's no guarantee that a corset would have made all of her costumes better, because of how Hollywood deals with corsets
Historically she shouldn't have been in a corset, she should have been in stays
@@elizabethb4168 She was ignorant and pushed her ignorance on others.
@@WolvenDragonZ Historically, she should have been in a Corset Blanc, a completely unboned bodice worn by women at the time, particularly those in her social class (poor rural women) which is actually pretty similar to the blue bodice she wears early in the film.
A reminder that some pieces of clothing aren’t comfortable for some people. People have different thresholds for discomfort. And the environment in which you are wearing the clothing and the things you need to do in the clothing are also factors.
This sounds like quite a complex issue, but one thing I think is often left out is that actors (like singers) are trained to breathe in a certain way to use their voice without damaging it/blowing it out, and breath can also be very important for accessing emotion. I know opera singers wear corsets but they probably have a chance to wear them in and learn how to breathe differently in them. Just wanting to add that if you've learned to breathe a certain way and suddenly you put on a corset and have long days on set where you need to do your best performance, I can understand how it could be difficult and uncomfortable.
This video needs to be spread far and vide. You definitely filled out a hole in the picture I didn’t know was there.
Thank you! That’s so kind of you to say
I've done a lot of extra work. One day we shot for 8 hours in the summer heat over 90 degrees and were wearing FULL winter gear. We had to pretend we were cold while we were literally almost at heatstroke level. This included the stars of the show. On-set is not a comfortable place. Shooting a movie/show is not a comfortable place.
From everything I've heard, it seems pretty normal for directors not to care at all about actresses comfort and a lot of non corset costumes are extremely uncomfortable, too.
Yeah, I’ve heard a lot of bad stories coming out of sets as well unfortunately. I think there’s a lot of work that needs doing - not just the costumes.
I've been an extra in a movie with historical costumes, in a crowd scene in a theatre. The scene took two 16-hour days to film. (I think the extras had a longer day than the actors, because there were maybe 200 extras to get ready and only a dozen actors, but they were probably on set for at least 12 hours as well.) The extras didn't have historic underthings, we wore our own underwear and shoes under the costumes. Even then it was pretty hot and uncomfortable after a few hours of filming. Outside temperatures were about 30°C, and one woman collapsed and another had to leave the set because she was on the verge of collapsing, and that was just due to the heat without any restricting clothes. I actually like corsets, but I think wearing a corset in that situation would have been even worse.
Natural fabrics were generally used back then and for the ones that were ladies a handheld fan could work in their favor I typically do female historically accurate cosplays or men dressing as women in a historical setting so I'm not sure how the males would keep cool. Probably been able to take the jacket off if it was inside the theater if I remember it was a theater correctly in which you were an extra in., but I also understand it could get quite hot out and hopefully the ones who passed out or had to leave were alright. Its just a tip, after all there were people that wore everything from the underpinnings to the visible part of the dress, in the day they used a parasol (umbrella) however in the evening or formal events they used a handheld fan.
@@nikandrosnickmackeage378 The scene was set in a theatre, but it was filmed partly on a film set. The first day of filming was on location in the theatre, which was absolutely fine because it was a stone building and didn't get hot inside. Second day of filming was in a studio, with 30°C outside and about the same inside, and the lights made it even hotter and stuffy. We had fans, but that hardly helped in the midday heat after several hours of filming. Real people attending the theater go to an airy stone building in the evening and if you see a Wagner opera it can take up to 5 hours. We were in a stuffy film set for far longer.
And yes, the people who collapsed were fine after rehydrating and resting.
That's terrible!!!
I've been in fim production, shooting set, theater stage as costumiere, executive producer assistant and actress (in France) and... YES, YES...AND YES! I was so happy that the costuming community busted the "killer corset" that I've almost forget... To keep in mind what you said about the habit, mindset and the long hard day situation. Thank you! This video is very useful and at the right time. 😊🖤
Maybe it's also because most of these actresses are probably quite athletic with strong core muscles which might make it harder/more uncomfortable to "pull" the waist in? I just watched Nicole Rudolph's "100 years of Corset History" and in the beginning she says that a "modern body" (i.e. stronger abdominal muscles) is not as easily cinched in as women's bodys in the past. Idek if that's a valid reason since I've never worn a corset...
Thank you!!!! I was really uncomfortable about how they sort of made actresses sound whiny or something.
Honestly, I always just assumed corsets were less comfortable for actresses because they were tight-lacing. Actresses are often expected (sometimes fairly, often not) to go above and beyond for physical beauty, so it makes sense that corsets would be used in that way as well.
Thank you. I have started finding a few TH-camrs have started getting on my nerves with their eyerolling about actresses not liking corsets, every time they mention corsets in movies, like the actresses are lying or stupid or something. Women should be lifting each other up not belittling each other.
I’ve been wishing someone would bring this up. The anti-corset noise is incredibly frustrating, but the rage directed at the actresses who have had bad experiences really doesn’t help.
I even get irritated in a bra that is supposed to fit me well and i very rarely wear them the past years,i almost always wear a sports bra or not at all.I would feel awful if i had to wear a corset because i dislike restrictive very tight clothes
The issue with corsets is the same as bras.
Why are they considered a must rather than an option? Why do women get shamed for not wearing them?
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 dunno dude.Bras should never be considered a requirement.Everyone has breasts and nipples,yet only afam people "must" wear them.
Haven't seen any of your other videos but this argument was so well thought out and explained and it hits the mark of what I think has been missing from a lot of corset 'discourse'. I had bought into the thinking that it's just poorly fitting corsets etc that have caused the issues, and until you pointed out the very obvious logical points that professional costumers know what they're doing and film sets are Hard Work, I and completely forgotten to take that into consideration. I was an art department runner on a small indie film set and I had completely forgotten how wiped out I was day after day - of course that's going to have an impact on comfort in a corset! Loved this video, I'm immediately subscribing!
I do stand by what I said in the video though - I think the other videos and general discourse about corsets needed to come first. If others hadn’t made videos explaining the basics or talked so widely about it, I don’t think a more nuanced video like this could do well (in fact I’m sure many people who have made “myth busting” videos share some version of this opinion, but left it out of their videos because they wanted to make a clear, concise argument) Thank you and happy to have you here! 😊
I'm thinking of a very specific youtuber who is always talking about how great corsets are and dismissing others experiences. Glad I found this video, now I know why I was uncomfy
I really like that you mentioned about the mindset. Because I’ve been wearing a corset while going to classes, travelling in a car, lifting heavy boxes from one place to another place, strolling around, basically, my daily routine includes a corset, and I don’t complain about it, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t get tired at the end of the day. The main reason that I don’t complain about wearing a corset is because I like wearing a corset. I like to wear a full-on historical costumes because I feel like myself wearing them. Another reason is that when I wear modern clothes or clothes that are from eras that a corset is not a necessary undergarment to build a silhouette, I still tend to wear a tight-fitting garments, so I think personal preferences, experience and mindset can really affect how one views a corset. And I agree with you that “not everybody likes corsets”. Although I do like wearing them now, I needed almost a week for my body to get used to wearing a corset or historical costumes.
Corsets can be comfortable, but it depends on the situation, health and body type. Some people like me can have GERD and this will make wearing any type of a corset (even the lightest ones) a torture. It's a torture to wear anything even a little bit restraining around your waist with this condition, so, a corset can't be comfortable. And considering that snacking late at night, having irregular schedule etc. can lead to gerd, I think that a lot of actresses have this problem even without knowing it. Plus, we mustn't forget that most of the times people who likes corsets will not have the same type of physical activity to the actresses who are not only moving and acting, but also standing underneath of a lot of lighting which makes it unbelievably hot. And most of the corsets that are used on sets are not everyday corsets that are much more comfortable. Plus any rigid clothes is uncomfortable in the begining. You need to were it in and then it will be comfortable. Most of my clothes is custom made, but it actually doesn't mean that my clothes is really comfortable all the time. Something can look good on you, be your size and fit you well when you're at fitting, but at the same time it can be impossible to wear it for long periods of time. Or it can deform in a process. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with any type of clothing. It doesn't mean that we mustn't try and change people's opinions, but it is strange to hear that corsets are totally comfortable and can't cause any discomfort and if they indeed causing you discomfort then it's the person's wearing it fault. It is strange and disrespectful.
The issue I have is when someone won’t wear one when they don’t actually have any facts or experience to back it up. I would love to see your experience in a corset. Especially if you can add any tips on how you could combat any issues you come across.
The misinformation does annoy me too. It’s frustrating feeling like there’s wrong information being spread and no way to reach the person who’s spreading it. I think the key thing for me was realising I was annoyed about that, and not annoyed that someone had a different opinion than me, you know? But that’s the weird world we live in I guess: celebrity = expert.
I’ll think about the video, thanks 😊
You’re a sweetheart and all the points you’ve raised are fair and valid. Thank you for sharing your feelings, it’s always good to have more perspective on this topic.
Thank you ❤️
What a nice reflection on corsetry and movies. I agree with the personal perspective, and I think it is totally valid to bring up the reality of acting, including long hours and aesthetic adjustment. Well done!
Thank you!
Thank you so much for bringing up working conditions. A few years ago I had 2 weeks of overnight 14hrs on set in the cold. Every minor little discomfort made me feel like I was actually going to die. Also, for big emotional scenes actors are going to be living in a heightened emotional state for all that time, which will also make every sensational all the more intense
Plus, for certain characters, they do a lot of tight lacing. Lily James was down to a 17 inch waist, which is incredibly small.
To be fair, Lily James also has a naturally tiny tiny waist. I don’t know the measurements, but if you view photos of her on the red carpet without a corset, it’s not so different.
Agreed. Hearing Lily say she couldn’t eat in her corset was really upsetting. And really the fault of whoever decided on her costume.
Yes, thank you! To me that is sich an important point, I am actually super happy that Emma Watson did not deliver another Disney princess with such a tiny waist because it sets such a bad example to young girls.
Didn’t they made the Cinderella dress two years before casting Lily? I remember an article stating so.
@@Theater00jock it is, ofc she is skinny in real life but the corset combined with the big skirt made her look so insanely tiny as if you could grab around her whole waist with your hand.
Thank you for this! I'm not part of the costuming community but enjoy the videos on TH-cam and always get a bit uncomfortable when people complain/make fun of actresses who disliked their corset. It always feels a bit unfair. Thank you for this other perspective.
As a theater costumer, I am ADAMANT that ANYone wearing a corset for a show starts wearing it at their first vocal rehearsal and especially the by the first moment the stand for blocking. It’s MY a responsibility to make sure a corset is ready....preferably I made or or at least purchased and well-fit. Every time they step into the rehearsal space, that corset (and rehearsal skirts) are on. Once they start rehearsing and working with everything, they get to make the calls regarding fit, etc., as long as it works within the period and design.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and feelings :) I always love seeing professional talk about corsets and especially making the point not to vilify actresses who may have had bad experiences. I always get so mad when I see corsets straight on the skin of those poor girls. And I have first hand knowledge of how hard it can be to switch from having worn a corset a few times for a couple hours to wearing one all the time, it can be very difficult especially for the first few days.
For context : I used to be a bar tender in a cabaret club where we were required to dress the part, I had a corset I wore it with a strapless tank top under it so it wasn't straight on my skin and still looked amazing, I wore said corsets a few times before starting to work there and even though I felt comfortable with it on the second day of work after 8 hours straight I almost fainted. I was working really hard and wasn't used to breathing in a corset for that long. I got coaching on how to breathe in it and how to get used to it and after a week I could work 12 hours a day with it no problem. So my point here is that yes, it is an adaptation and it can be very hard if you're not prepared. It of course helps if you do the work previous to wearing a corset and are aware you're not damaging your body by wearing it.
Love this view, very well said! Also as most people refuse to wear wired bras anymore are we surprised that they don’t like wearing corsets? No. Some people don’t like wearing heels, some people love them. It’s all personal preference mixed in with the endurance of a long day. I’ve got more of a problem about the ‘wrong’ sorts of corsets being used.
Side note, love you lina! Having this on whilst sewing was like the good old days at uni but with less Prosecco🥂❤️
Thanks Lizzy! Can’t wait until we’re allowed to see each other again ❤️🥂
@@LinaPiprek I think a prosecco and period drama night is in the making! xx
Great points! I said this in another video that was leaning (especially in the comments) into the "the actresses are just whining/lying". If your first and likely only experience with corsets is miserable long days in an unfamiliar garment, you are going to have a negative view of that garment. It especially doesn't help when people compare it to wearing a bra, which plenty of people find uncomfortable as well. The actresses are not part of some sexist ancient campaign to discredit corsets; they are just sharing their experience and that experience was unpleasant.
When you were talking about the rigors of being on set all day, I had a brief memory of a photo I saw... somewhere. (Not helpful, I know.) It was a "backstage look" type of thing on a film set in what I want so say is the late '40s or so. One of the actresses is between takes, and she can't change out of the long clingy silk gown that looks like it just flowed down the line of her body was actually quite tight, making even sitting a bit of an issue (plus the whole "don't wrinkle it!" thing). The film set's solution? A board, set upright at a slight angle... 25-30 degrees perhaps, with another board at her feet to keep her from sliding off and hopefully take a little weight off her feet, because, I don't care how used to them you are, there can only be so many hours on your feet that high heels are comfortable. Maybe there was some padding, but you couldn't tell in the photo. So on longer breaks, she would step up and lean against the board, the angle enough to take some of the stress off her back, but not so deep that it would be difficult or awkward to converse with others on the set, or go over her script, etc.
I'm not sure why the practice stopped... maybe the costumes stopped being as restrictive?
I remember reading an article in Entertainment Weekly during the filming of The Lion, The Witch and the Woredrobe. A similar board setup was constructed for the actress who played Jadis, the White Witch, because her costume had no give. Therefore, these boards haven't quite gone the way of the buffalo.
@@rachaelknudsen8801 - Tilda Swinton, and yeah her costume meant that it was virtually impossible for her to sit down in.
That's the one! I knew her name, it got lost in the folds of my brain. Thank you.
The point about the media taking stuff out of context is so important
This 'it should be totally comfortable' is kind of like wearing a binder. Online you get info on how to bind safely and if you bind safely, _nothing_ should hurt and you can only bind for 8 hours at a time and if something hurts, you should take a break or change altogether. This can be applied directly to corset wearing.
That said, I bind regularly and my PMS makes it so I can wear virtually nothing but a really loose sports bra for a whole week of my cycle, because everything else hurts so much. I have breathing problems from anxiety and after an OP where my abdominal cavity was inflated, my ribs hurt with too deep breaths. When I am stressed, even though physically everything is fine, I feel like literally dying in my binder because my ribs feel like breaking just from breathing.
If on any given day I was contractually obliged to wear my binder, there would be a good chance that I would have a miserable and painful experience even though I happily wear my binder 80% of the time without any problems.. I would probably not tell anyone unasked, but many of these stories also come from actresses being explicitly asked how bad the corset was or how they could do something in it, that no costuber would repeatedly do in a corset (like a stage fight with several hours of retakes to get continuity right for all shots)
This is the best video I've seen on corsets in the film industry and the bad stigma surrounding them. Kindness and thoughtfulness goes so far and and remembering that there's SO much more to the story like longer/calmer interviews, long hours and the unique situations surrounding being on a film set. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts in this video!! 💕
Maybe actresses should have their own corsets, which they can “break in”, and reuse on different films.
I love this idea
I think it's kinda the same thing with bras. I stopped wearing them some time ago and now when I put one on it feels very uncomfortable. When I wore them on a daily basis, of course they didn't bother me that much as they do today. Because I'm not used to it anymore. Bras are not made to hurt or be uncomfortable. And there are right and wrong ways to wear them. Just like corsets.
I know that corstes are not like bras though! I just meant the feeling of being used to it and not being used to it!
Thank you for this video - although the rising appreciation for corsets has been great, a lot of the nuance about how the film industry and the actresses get treated, is brushed off. Clothing can be uncomfortable! It's a basic fact of wearing stuff for a long time - things get irrating and annoying and even painful. And that pain is real and shouldn't just be dismissed.
When I worked at a medical facility, we had uniform shoes. Those shoes were fine at try on, and for the first part of your shift. But 10 hours later, running up and down stairs and standing for hours on end... those shoes were desperately painful. Does that mean the shoe itself was a product of satan? NO. but the pain was still real, and I still complained about it.
Same thing for corsets
Oh it was so enlightening to listen to someone who has the experience in the film industry! You did open my eyes on several issues. Thank you for making his video!
I wear a well-made well-fitted corset with a chemise every time I go outside (which is not much in current circumstances, but still). It's a wonderful garment that I'm used to, but despite all that, sometimes I just have a bad-corset day. It's like your bad-hair day, only with a corset :) And I can't wait to take the damn thing off of me!
Thanks, I’m glad you liked it! It’s interesting to hear the perspective of someone who does wear a corset regularly, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing 😊
That's everyday in a bra. What a relief taking it off when getting home from work. When we actually worked somewhere other than home that is! 😊
This is something I've said for a long time to people who loved corsets and could not comprehend how someone could ... not like them? Or isn't used to them? THANK YOU !
THANK YOU. As a musical/stage actor with frequent jobs involving costumers who DO know what they're doing/wearing stuff underneath/etc., but still finds corsets uncomfortable, I always felt severely alienated and was getting really tired of being told that I was upholding terrible myths and ruining the costuming industry by saying that I didn't like having to wear them. I always sympathized with actresses who complained about corsets, and people just looked at me like I was crazy!
I think another thing to be aware of is, at least in things like operas or musicals, people do have to SING in corsets. And it can be extremely difficult to do that with pressure around the area where your abdominal viscera are and the fact that singing requires deep, expansive, diaphragmatic breathing. It's always been so difficult for me to do my job in corsets, which was...exactly why I hate having to wear them. So thank you. For busting myths, for teaching me something new, and for validating the experiences of those of us who have had genuinely terrible experiences with wearing corsets.
I am one of those people who gets a little too defensive of corsets, thank you for making this video as it really opened my eyes, as have all the very productive comments! I hope there's a way to improve this in the film industry, I know in American/Hollywood productions they don't have easy work conditions at the best of times.
This perspective was needed in the discourse. Thank you!
Ive been waiting for a video like this. Ive been really weary of the pro-corset videos specifically because so many of them revolve around corsets not being uncomfortable and just outright discounting other people's experiences. Nuance is so important and we shouldnt be demonizing corsets OR actresses who don't like them.
I've never done film but I've been onstage and I agree with what you're saying here. I actually didn't realise that people were villifying actresses for having bad experiences. It seems perfectly logical as someone who has performed musicals in corsets that while they aren't dangerous or, in my case, restrictive, it does feel SO GOOD to take them off at the end of the day. Haha
This was a very well-thought out, balanced, and empathetic video, and I wanted to say thank you for sharing what you know. I agree, there's a little (or a lot) of self-righteousness in the costuming community about corsets, and I hope more people can watch this video. Maybe you could share it on your Instagram?
Thank you!
Thank you for this great video. I was uncomfortable with all this new discourse about how corsets are soooo comfy and how women complaining abour wearing a corset are ignorant / dramaqueens. Now I understand better the issue with this rhetoric thanks to all the interesting informations you gave us.
Corsets are restrictive garments. Even the most comfortable corset on earth is still a restrictive, rigid garment. It feels even more restrictive for us modern people who wear a lot of stretchy and baggy cloths. An actress who is focused on her acting (voice + emotions + body language + her lines) and has to deal with many challenges (the heat, the long day of work, the stress etc) may not want to deal with another challenge such as wearing a restrictive undergarment that she is not used to wear.
Plus, from a feminist point of view : there are good reasons why 19th and 20th century feminists hated the corset. They were not "hysterical", they were not "making things up". The corset was an important element of a misogynistic dress code that was compulsatory for women at that time and a lot of feminists got rid of their corset for valid reasons. The reform dress mouvement and the violent reactions it caused show how the 19th century western societies had an autoritarian vision of how women should dress. Just because some anticorset propaganda is rooted in misogyny (the cliché of frivolous women being victims of their vanity) does not mean that corset was not a tool of gynophobic oppression. I am glad that today we have great costubers making informative videos about corsets and I am glad that nowadays we enjoy the freedom to wear what we want, including corsets, but let us not dismiss the experience of women who have suffered from oppressive dress norms.
The conversation about corsets reminds me the controversy over hijab. Yes, part of the antihijab discourse is rooted in misogyny (agressive remarks on women who refuse to look "sexually available"), but also, a big part of the prohijab propaganda is very misogynistic too ("a woman who shows her hair and cleavage is not respectable" etc) and we should never forget the sufferings of the millions of women who are forced to wear it by the law and risk to be sent to jail if they show their hair in public.
I hope the comments stay sensible on here.
very insightful on the empathy we need to drive towards actresses who speak about their experiences. it's very unfortunate that a lot of people's first reaction to a woman complaining about (or simply retelling, expressing their feelings) a bad experience is mocking, so your video is very refreshing. i hope your kindness gets you far in life ❤
Thank you so much for this video! Honestly the first 3 videos about how the way actresses talk about corsets were funny but some youtubers have made so many it’s a little bit like oh ok so you just lack empathy
Also YES period dramas are NOT educational!!! They can be, it’s awesome when they are but they DON’T HAVE TO BE
Love this! Actresses shouldn't be shamed for not having a positive experience with corsets. My only issue is when they spread misinformation and claim that their experiences were the universal experiences of women in history. What we all need to do, both actresses and costumers alike, is acknowledge that the experiences of historical women and actresses on a modern film set are simply not comparable.
Thank you for your refreshing insight. I'm getting really angry hearing the same corset defending argument and the lack of empathy of some other TH-camrs. We know who...
This video is great. You make some great points. I’ll admit, I was one of those “gas lighters” when it came to actresses complaints about wearing corsets. I just simply forgot this one universal fact: people are allowed to feel the way they feel and those feelings are perfectly valid. There are also many, MANY underlying factors when it comes to why an actress would be uncomfortable in a corset she has to wear for whatever project she is working on.
I think you've made a very valid & empathetic point here and I can completely relate to the situation affecting ones comfort levels. I usually tend to feel the pressure around the 5 hour mark and if I have to wear a corset for, say 12 hours, the feeling of pressure would certainly increase. I do tend to find that sitting down for extended periods of time while wearing stays or corsets is actually more uncomfortable, than if I was constantly moving around a bit.
Oh interesting! Just goes to show that everyone is different I guess - I tend to be more comfortable wearing a corset when I have a calmer day. Though to be fair, I don’t have many days where I’m actually *totally* still for longer periods, so who knows. Thanks for your insight 😊
Thank you for this perspective. The whole calling actresses liars thing has been bugging me for a while now but I appreciate hearing a nuanced take on it from someone much more knowledgeable than me!
I went to college for costuming, I've worked on film sets, and I'm getting into acting, so I really appreciate your perspective! Lots of excellent points.
I would love to see actors getting used to their corsets as a regular part of the rehearsal process (not totally sure how this works on bigs sets, since I've only worked in indie films). Having that time to break in your corset and get used to working with it would help make the long days on set more comfortable.
Smaller time film/stage/commercial actress here. What I’ve discovered from a lot of sets and productions is that a lot of costumes aren’t made specifically to you, they might be rented or part of a stock house that does a lot of productions. And sometimes I’ve even had costumers who didn’t know much of anything dressing me to the point where I knew more more about historical costuming than they did. Yes yes to the point of people designing being separate from the dressers. Even if the designer knows, the person actually putting clothes on you might not. And a lot of times their experience comes from watching other films so they actually try tight lacing you because they just assume that is how a corset should be worn. Other times the people are knowledgeable but the garment needs to fit both the main performer and understudy. Not sure what happened to big names like Emma stone and others because you would think they would have more say, but they may not know enough about historical costuming themselves to tell the dresser to loosen the stays or corset because they also think tightlacing is how it should be. Plus a lot of times you are doing 15 hour days, on your feet, dunked in water or doing crazy things. Great video!!!
Thank you so much for articulating my complicated feelings on this. I'm pro-corset if people want to wear them, but it makes me super uncomfortable when anyone who says "I had a negative experience" gets dismissed outright without considering why. I have a slightly wonky spine, and my current corset-making skills are not up to figuring out a solution that won't compress nerves. That's not an indictment of corsets generally, but I get sick of couching it so much in defensive language to avoid people either thinking I'm anti-corset (and, depending on their own view, agreeing intensely with a thing I'm not saying, or getting super defensive and arguing against a thing I'm not saying), or trying to fix the problem ("Have you tried X") that is not currently a thing I'm invested in fixing.
TLDR: You are doing good work and you're lovely. Thank you for sharing your expertise!
Finally!! My biggest pet peeve is to see people attacking the low quality of the corsets actress are forced to wear and then in the same breath attack those actresses instead of whoever gave them the corset and told them to do stupid things in it. It reeks of misogyny: the woman is always to blame according to them. We need more content like this.
Thank you so much for this video! I didn't realize how much I needed it 😅. I didn't realize how unfair I was being in my judgements of actresses experiences. Of course everyone's experience is valid! I have no right to say what they did or didn't feel, or to judge them because of that. How did I lose sight of that? Thank you so much for calling me out a little bit , I needed it 💕
I have been consuming a lot of pro-corset material lately and I have learned a lot, but I admit to jumping on the bandwagon of thinking that everyone who dislikes a corset is stupid. Your video kind of rubbed me the wrong way at the beginning because of its truth. You have kept balance in mind, of not going to one extreme to fix the other. Your video was very informative and I highly appreciate you for keeping this issue balanced. The world isn't black and white, and our youtube content shouldn't be either. Overall I have the utmost respect for this video, great job!
On the subject of comfort I wonder how many costumes take materials into account as well. For example natural fibers tend to breathe well so a big poofy dress made of them is going to be more comfortable in the summer but cheaper polyester and poly blends are way less so. That alone could create a different experience.
This video is really important.I've seen some brushing off actresses' discomfort in corsets as just overreacting. They forget that the film set is a different environment.
A great companion video to all the "corsets are fine, guys" videos running around costube. I was interested in another opinion. Thanks!
I'm still trying to make my own corset with a shoestring budget. It hard. Me dumb.
I laced on my mockup on for 15 mins and it squished me the wrong way so that I couldnt stand up straight for an hour or two after I took it off 😱😱😱
Thanks! And good luck with your corset! It can definitely be tricky when you’re still learning, but I’m sure it’ll be worth the struggles 😊
Thank you so much for this! I have definitely been one to turn up my nose in the "know-it-all snobbery defense" while trying to counteract the wives tales around corsetry; but you made so many good points, and I am thankful for the humility you inspired. I think those of us who do the research have this itch to be heard and try to be louder than the myths. It's like the ego takes a hit everytime an actress states her negative experience with corsetry. I am grateful for the reminder that I can come at this with a more conscientious mindset. Truly, this talk really was eye opening and I respect you a lot for your kindness and empathy!
Thank you!I feel like a lot of people in the costuming community are way too fixed on what they learn in seminars or costume school.I also dislike how they keep implying that costume designers have no knowledge because a garment is not accurate.Maybe decisions were made based on story lines,character traits and the director's aesthetics and not based on which exact year of the 1790's the film takes place...this is what artists do.
I have performed regularly in an opera chorus (not the Met). Our company rents costumes. Measurements are taken, costumes ordered. We have learned to add to the measurements (easier to take in than let out). Some costume companies seem to act on the "close enough" formula. Corsets are usually built into the costume. One time received a costume with the right waist measurement, but six inches above my actual waist (pressing on rib cage). Took 2 people to get me dressed. Totally emptying lungs, pushing in ribs, getting zipped before it became necessary to breath. That was painful. Also, we all invested in our own slip/chemise. Many times rented costumes are shipped directly to another company's production. You definitely want something between you and an improperly cleaned, ill fitting costume.
I would love for you and Bernadette Banner to have a (metaphorical) fireside chat 💬👏🏻
This is a really good counter argument to what a lot of vintage you tubers have been talking about. One thing is wearing a corset casually, another thing is having to wear one for a 10 hour shoot while you’re working.
I mean is no one gonna talk about the dress reform movement?
All the famous feminists and suffragettes we know about, were advocating for change in women's fashion that often centered the idea that corsets should be optional.
It was SO radical that Susan B Anthony tried it, and then went back to wearing corsets not because corsets are so great, but because dress reform was too radical. (I just was reading about this in an old issue of piecework magazine haha)
Why would feminists of the past advocate for this if corsets are such wonderful things to constantly be wearing?
When we say everyone should be comfortable in corsets and women who are not comfortable in corsets are wusses who aren't wearing them correctly- we deny the fact that there is actually more than one woman, and that we, as women, may actually feel differently from eachother about our bodies and what we wear.
I work in the costume industry too- I have made corsets, worn corsets, and been a backstage dresser for people (of several genders) who wore corsets on stage.
I have enjoyed wearing my corset, always over a shift, yet I wore it for too long in 100+ degree weather and got actual permanent skin problems from it.
I have worked as a dresser for people who loved the corsets they wore in shows- and I have worked as a dresser for people who have hated their corsets and were miserable wearing them.
Tight-lacing is usually worse for the performer than corsets that do not squeeze so much- and corsets with bust and hip padding to achieve shape instead of tight lacing are also usually more enjoyable for performers to wear.
Thank you so much for making this video- if you can't tell I have a lot of feelings on the subject too and I'm very grateful that you started this conversation.