We Killed Stolen Bases. It's Time to Bring Them Back
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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Bartolo Colon is da biggest bird
I have no context, but I'm liking this
Im da biggest bird im da biggest bird, im da biggest bird, im da biggest bird im da biggest 🦅 🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦜🦜🦜🦜🦜🦢🦢🦢🦢🦢🦢🦢🦆🦆🦆🦆🦆🦆🦅🦅🦅🦅
If Bartolo were a position player, he’d break Ricky’s record
I've been a baseball fan (St. Louis Cardinals) since the very early 1960s and I have never seen a more exciting season than the 1982 Cardinals run to the World Series Crown and it was their speed that defined that team.
As a Mets fan, I can tell you there is no team that put greater fear into me, before, or since....
Whitey Ball! I was only six in 1982 but remember watching the series with the family. Oh and Willie McGee was dating a women my mom worked with and signed cards for me and my brother.
I wasn't born until '84, so I'd have to go with 2011
@@jricoc3475 As are the Mets to me but, ESPECIALLY in 1982.
@@jricoc3475 wait aren’t the Mets Pond Scum! Lol my dad had that shirt back in the 80’s. Have a good one man
Please bring back the complete game as well, thanks
Great pitchers are too valuable to waste making them pitch a whole game and ruining their arms
Ricky Henderson was my favorite player growing up and I tried to emulate him on the baseball field. I recall in our all-star game coach gave us all a green light to steal. My first at bat I hit a single. Stole Second then Third and I went for stealing home even since Ricky did it. I got caught at home plate. Still I collected over 100 different Rickey Henderson baseball cards. Dude is a legend!
I remember in highschool baseball, (I graduated in 2017) at least on my team, winning games was ALL about aggressive baserunning. I was always exceptionally fast. (outside of baseball I'm a runner and soccer player) Me and guys like me I were essentially given the green light to steal anytime we thought we could make it. (As long as it wasn't a stupid situation to try and steal in or something, obviously) anytime I reachced first, I knew right away to watch the pitcher's feet and take off as soon as his front foot came up. If I got on second, I'd be paying attention to the pitcher's habitual routine of looking back and throwing, and vault-stealing as soon as he looked back at the plate to pitch. Half the time he'd panic and balk, the other half the time he'd throw the pitch and I'd already basically be sliding into third by the time the catcher had the ball. The thing is, all this usually worked cause it was highschool. The defense was never paying very close attention to you, and half the catchers could barely make the throw to second, much less accurately. Every once in while, you'd play against a better team who had a smarter pitcher, maybe with a nasty pick-off move, and/or a catcher with an absolute cannon. Someone would get thrown out in the first inning and the coach would be like, "Nevermind, we're gonna be careful about stealing today" lol
In the majors, I feel like defenses are usually smart and watching baserunners very closely, and every catcher has a SCARY good arm.
I think you forgot that back in the 70s & 80s a lot of fields where fake truf making hitting the ball on the ground a good way to get on base because the ball would pick up speed bouncing off the rock hard truf. Having potential base stealers on base made the pitcher change their wind-up and infielders having to adjust to the runner . Today the fields are all grass or alot softer truf making fly balls a better way of scoring
That’s a great point! Respect the take 👊
It would keep more speed but I don’t think it’s physically possible for a thrown or batted ball to pick up speed by bouncing along the ground regardless of spin. It just wouldn’t lose as much speed, right?
Please never say chicks and then cut to a shot of Marge Schott
highly recommend reading 'Rickey' by Howard Bryant
Reminder that MLB helped Aaron Judge with Goldilocks balls in the 2022 season
Evidence?
Only 2 pick off attempts?? Why would the runner go half way, and steal? Is there a lead off length rule too?
I would totally just stand a foot away from the next bag
I would say lack of African American players in baseball is the reason
The pitch clock and the limit on pick-off attempts will likely result in an explosion of stolen bases.
As a Mariners fan I'm so hyped for Julio to swipe a ton of bags this season
So effectively baseball got too smart for its own good. Analytics made it risk averse which took away an exciting part of the game. It needs some risk, risk is exciting. The stolen base is not only risk, its tension drama pressure etc. so yeah bring back more stolen bases. And put more balls in play, less strikeouts mean more on field activity.
You can be fast but it doesn’t mean you can steal a base.
Love the editing in this video
Correction cause it bugged me: the bases have increased from 15"x15" to 18"x18", not 15 in^2 to 18 in^2. Its an increase of 99in^2 (225 to 324), not 3.
Expect Orioles
The problem is that baseball players in this era are basically machines built to play baseball. You can’t even compare the old players to the current players, players are faster than they’ve ever been but catchers and pitchers throw harder. Defenders never make errors and most runs are scored from nukes
Well I mean you can’t truck someone stealing anymore so that makes it go down😂
The Waffle House has found it’s new host
The Waffle House has found it's new host
Advanced stats and trying to play the game on a spreadsheet has a bunch of nerds ruining the game
8:48 what do those guys have written on them? 🧐
Tigers
W
Trout is highly overrated by stat heads
You didnt kill anything. Molina killed stealing bases!!!
On a serious note, batters only care about hitting bombs. So they are big and slow running. Also, pop outs are more prevalent.
"expect Orioles"... jfc learn how to spell
Nerds are killing the game. Baseball has gone from America's past time to the fourth major sport in some markets.
You made a video about stealing.... and didn't mention Kenny Lofton. Hmmmm.
The stolen base has certainly been under utilized. Especially for speedsters like Trea Turner. Runners with elite speed should steal almost everytime they're on 1st base, just like Rickey.
I've said it before: Turner is going to score 130 runs this year. Harper will be out to start the year, but if he (and his disciplined eye) hit sin the 2 spot, and Schwarber 3rd, Turner will have pitchers focused on those batter, plus Realmuto, Hoskins, et al ...
@@jricoc3475 lol
Ricky ran 100 Meter dash in 9.6 seconds. He was legit one of the fastest men not just in baseball but the world. He also had the best batting discipline in MLB at drawing a walk. His record will never be broken unless the new rules make stealing crazy easy.
@@Wallyworld30 That's true, you gotta have a high OBP to get that amount of steal opportunities.
Another problem with implementing that strategy today involves the supporting cast. Henderson can't convert those steals into runs by himself, and if every other guy is playing three true outcomes then the impact of a lone speedster is greatly diminished.
Once again nerds have managed to ruin an important aspect of a sport by trying to use math to quantify the HUMAN ELEMENT. Oh steals only create blah blah blah. Until someone on your team steals a bag in a big moment and it changes the entire atmosphere of the game. God damn it’s just pathetic at this point. The game doesn’t need more “excitement” it needs to be played the way it was ment to be played. Baseball is one of the most beautiful games the world has ever known and all we’ve done is kick it in the balls or lady balls and tell it it’s ugly.
Really hoping for more stolen bases, they’re fun and makes baseball more interesting
with players like volpe, mccray, brown, and de la cruz about to make mlb appearances maybe we willl
I'm old but I do not get why anyone thinks watching a lot of home runs is exciting. There is _less happening_ than when runners advance one or two bases at a time.
And yeah I'm from Cleveland. Go Guardians!
Take a look at catchers. Before his retirement, Yadier Molina was the Cardinals' long-time catcher. The league had a saying: "Don't steal on Molina." Catchers figure into steals when you've got a catcher with a strong, fast, accurate arm. In addition, Molina had an uncanny awareness of movement on every inch of the field at any moment.
Good point and a missed data point in this video. But I’m sure there were legendary catchers in the 80’s too.
Catcher in the 80's were not great at throwing out baserunners. This certainly contributed to extra SB's. I recall in the 80's the Brewers moved BJ Surhoff from other positions to catching because it just wasn't a priority to them to have a guy throw out runners. They cared more about guys that could hit for good average and just catch the ball.
@@MrBurtonPE who cares about data? Data this data that, let’s just play baseball!!
I mean, I'm a cards fan and that made sense but also people just DONT steal now. Its risk aversion instead of trying to play the game like humans play it. The LEAGUE LEADER in caught stealing % is usually still under 50%
@@nathanlee1161The thing is the league leader at caught stealing has maybe 20-40 chances a season
This video is actually fire and I never thought about the stolen base problem this way. Banger video officially no longer a compilation merchant.
Appreciate the support 👊
The bigger bases, pitch clock and limiting pickoffs to 2 is going to make the game so much more fast-paced and exciting. When I was playing baseball and now when I watch, stolen bases were some of the most exciting things to happen. To me, it's a way for a player to really show off their prowess, and can make a player very intimidating. I do believe there's a psychological effect on an opposing team if a guy gets on base who they know has a high likelihood of advancing if they let their guard down.
It helped me in high school as a two home hitter. The lead off was a small fast guy who would just bunt to get on everytime and steal until he was on third. Usually by my second at bat I was seeing fastballs over the plate or pitch outs. Either way I was in a good hitters count.
The video has a counter statistic for that (7:36) but I think it's not very strong. Yes, there is surely a phycological effect from stealing. Same way a 3-2 game going into the 9th is going to be much different from a 13-2 game.
@@thebookwasbetter3650 I could be wrong, but I think the statistic only took into account if there was a player on first. So if a player like Albert Pujols (as amazing as he is) was on first, I doubt a pitcher would be sweating. I don’t think it measured how pitchers are affected if there are speedsters on base.
It won't but good that you have hope
Home runs are exciting in a Wham-Bam-Thank-You-Maam sort of way. Stolen bases are like foreplay. Much more satisfying.
Players just wanna hit homeruns now... the art of baseball is not what it once was
When I was a kid I played baseball for 9 years stopping after High School. The most exciting part of the game to me was stealing a base. In 9 years I had never been caught stealing.
While the rule changes will definitely lead to more stolen base attempts and higher success rates, I doubt we'll be seeing 80-100 stolen base players again. However, I do believe that we are on the verge of a duel threat renaissance. Keep your eye on the number of 20/20 hitters over the coming years.
I was thinking the same thing.... look for a dozen players with 30+ swipes
"Yasmani Grandal for example, rounds the bases at the same rate my grandma climbs the stairs" 😂
When I played little league this was an essential part of my game. I wanted to be Ken Griffey Jr but I played more like Kenny Lofton.
Love this take, hopefully speedsters will be unleashed going forward!
One thing that encouraged base stealing in the 80's was Astroturf. Teams that played on the fake grass had speedsters that could hit singles and then steal their way into scoring position. Balls weren't slowed down by Astroturf like they were by grass, so it was easier for slap hitters to hit balls past the infielders, and singles to the outfield were turned into doubles that scooted to the wall. Add in the cookie cutter stadiums most Turf teams played in that were not homer friendly, and small ball was the way to go.
“we” didn’t kill it! the baseball nerds killed it! they have ruined baseball with moneyball and the shift.
You don't need be a speedster to be a good stealer.
“Two very talented cheaters…”
Epically based comment
i thought it was because the chase utley play where he slid into him, i thought the threat of getting spiked forced defenders to play more off the bag to avoid injury
Why would that decrease stolen bases, though? Quite the opposite should be the effect, if that was the case. If defenders are more hesitant to cover the bag, shouldn't that encourage potential base stealers?
So if baseball is a business about bringing in fans who like to watch home runs, wouldn’t base stealing be right behind that? no matter how good a pitcher is a spectator cannot really see the details of each pitch but stealing a base is very noticeable and fun to watch.
Think of all the bang bang plays through the years… they would all now be safe due to the larger bags… this year is going to be an interesting year for baseball. Power and OBP may be the same, but we will definitely see an uptick in average.
There should be a slight bounce this upcoming season, but sadly, I don't think the golden age of speed is ever coming back. Not unless they deaden the ball, move the mound closer, and create a scoring environment akin to the Dead Ball Era. A cure worse than the disease.
The truth of the matter is, there's basically no correlation between stolen bases and winning. There IS a correlation between home runs and winning. It makes sense - the object of the game of baseball is to score more runs than the other team, and home runs score runs every time.
It's not as much of a problem for me - I like dingers. I'm a Twins fan - we didn't have a single 30 home-run hitter during the steroid era. Every light-hitting infielder the farm system shat out was just another sign of the Pohlads' lack of commitment to winning. By the time the late 2000s rolled around I was sick to death of Piranha-ball. By contrast, the 2019 team during the juiced ball was a joy to watch. Hadn't seen anything like it in Minneapolis.
But it is, nonetheless, disheartening to see that there's really only one truly winning baseball strategy. I'd like it if every team didn't have to try to do the same thing. 'Course, I'd like a lot of things. That doesn't mean they'll happen.
The relationship between stolen base success rate and runs added doesn’t fully define the utility of a stolen base. A run in a 7-2 game also doesn’t mean as much as a Dave Roberts steal. But to my knowledge we don’t have a “win probability added per stolen base.” There are definitely perks when used correctly and this video did well to highlight that!
there's an estimated necessary success rate for it to be useful, but that's for the average hitter and probably needs to be looked at under the team lens
13:05 as you’re talking about guys throwing fast, the dude threw 76 mph 😂
Billy Hamilton is my favorite player of all time, I really hope players like him get more value
its wild. I'm an author of a Superhero Baseball series and the man character is a stolen base king
Everyone talks about moving the mound back; or whatever, how about shortening the base paths? An infield single shouldn’t be more rare than a home run. Fast players should be rewarded for their speed. Its bs that any ball hit, even pretty hard to the infield is a damn near guaranteed out.
Today's players would probably collapse from myocarditis if they broke a sweat
It's not them being soft, most of them are doing PED's, and their bodies can't handle the same force when off cycle.
With the change in rules for the coming season (bigger bases, less pick-off attempts allowed), I have a feeling that speed and stolen bases will be back in a BIG way.
Just watch. This season will be an offensive explosion for the ages.
Bring back Vince Coleman and Ricky Henderson
There really is little point to stealing in a game dominated by home run hitters. A guy on second doesnt matter nearly as much when you hit dingers instead of singles.
The problem needs to be fixed by putting less emphasis on the home run, and more emphasis on hitting for average.
@2:23 black and white photography and awful color TV like this are the reasons I didn’t know Maury Wills was Black until age 25
Much Love for giving
My boy Vince Coleman a ‘Shout Out’ I personally think he was the best thief of them all
"Chicks dig the long ball"... *Shows picture of Marge Schott* lol
The excessive emphasis on home runs and not caring about strikeouts has made baseball unwatchable. The imposition of defensive shift limits will likely result in far more emphasis on base running again, since a lot more hitters will get to base.
This by far is your best video yet
Made the cut started making good videos instead of the reordering the same 40 10,000 Iq clips?
The days of players stealing 80+ bases are gone, but players getting 50-70 stolen bases each can come back with the new rules, plus, no shift should make hit-and-run plays easier to execute...the old head games about who covers 2nd on a steal attempt/hit -and-run will make the game more interesting. But it won't happen immediately, give it two seasons for teams to adjust
Small ball and base stealing have been my favorite offense with the occasional grand slam or 3 run homer.Homer.
Though I disagree with the pick off limit.
Fun Fact! Hugh Nicol holds the single season stolen base record with 138. I thought it was Rickey Henderson.
Facts like that make me think it's not real. I don't have anything against you it's just that no one said anything about hugh nicol when Rickey broke the record.
@@johnbyrd3154 The reason that no one talked about it was because Nicol did that in the 1800's when the game was barley the same game as today. Plus I believe Nicol did it in AA on the Red Stockings.
@@ketch0_041 Y'know that's kind of the same thing that happened with Lou Brock. I saw the clip of him breaking the steal record and the announcers said he broke ty Cobb's record but billy Hamilton has more steals than ty Cobb and he played in the late 1800's and early 1900's
You have to put a huge asterisk on that, though. In Nicol's day, you were credited with a stolen base if you went from 1st to 3rd on a single.
@@big8dog887 Interesting!
Didn’t they just say they are changing the rules to encourage steals ?
Yeah he mentions that in the video.
The Waffle House has chosen its new host
MLB Stadiums got larger in the 60’s and 70’s and power fell out besides a few teams. But the new rules won’t encourage more larceny on the bases, not to the extent where it’s noticeable, baseball embraced steals in the late 60’s and 70’s because it was part of an era of baseball and sports in total when you had diversity in the way teams were constructed. You had power based teams, you had pitching and defenses and you had you’re speed teams, nowadays every team is a Frankenstein monster, no team wants to step out and play a different style leaving the stagnant copycat game we have today, in the past 20 yeast they only team that has broken the mold was the Royals in 2014-15 and they put pressure on the teams they played.
As long as the game is played with an over emphasis on relying on the computer than you’re stuck with the boring stagnant game you’ve seen, the new rules are basically gimmicks that don’t comprehend that the sport changes when GM’s change their approach, the only reason why the early 60’s Dodgers had Maury Wills run so wild is because the Dodgers had to re-adjust and not play to the dimensions of Ebbets Field which allowed them to mash in the 50’s, now they had to steal and run in Dodger Stadium due to dimensions.
Yes, yes, yes. We need speed and finesse back into the game. Watching a game today is like watching a 4-hour presentation of batting practice.
The early 90's Mets ruined Vince Coleman's chance at the Hall of Fame. Such a shame.
he tossed fireworks at kids hes not exactly a humanatarian
@@dumdawgpro I'm from the east coast and I've been to two Dodgers home games in my life and one of them was the Vince Coleman firecracker game. Saw it on the news when we got in. My dad was working in Santa Monica at the time and I visited him. Those early 90's Mets teams were cursed.
Boom pow pow !!!
My fandom for Juan Pierre is sad.
While stolen bases were a ton of fun to watch back in the 1980s, it makes no sense to risk losing a player on the basepaths when everyone that comes to the plate is a home run threat. If and when HR totals begin to drop you will see the return of the stolen base.
You'd need minimum ball park dimensions expanded to increase stolen bases by denying home runs or declaring batters out for overly long batting rituals so they won't have their superstitous home run rituals anymore which increases outs, singles, and doubles by weakening contact/breaking focus.
This was really good
Dope video
4 days into the season and steals are way up.
What else killed the SB? Terry Mullholland. His pick-off move and the slide-step. (Not sure if he invented the slide-step but he's the first guy that comes to mind when I try to think of someone doing in the 90s.)
Sabermetrics is absolutely garbage
i hate how mlb is changing the rules to try and make baseball appeal to people who dont want to watch baseball
counter speeding the play up is beneficial to everyone
hahahaha...no. The game will still be the boring K/BB/HR/1b outcome with station to station. All the new rules they implemented are the worse. They should have raised the mound and backed it up in order to be in the middle of 2b & home while also softening the ball some with raised seams. That would have lowered HRs, put more balls in play and lessened P injury as they would not have to throw as hard to try and prevent HRs with Ks
Baseball is now Professional Wrestling with predictable outcomes in a comical and farcical manner...as a Phillies fan, I was disappointed and didn't care about the WORST defensive team in a decade making the World Series...just because the Phillies could walk and hit 3 run HRs. COuldn't even watch them...and that is not counting the Instant replays that chew up 20 minutes
Baseball is a sport. MLB is a business :)
The truth is teams aren’t valuing speedsters and, stolen bases. An increase in base stealing would definitely make the game far more exciting and explosive in my opinion.
Not when the pitcher is limited to two pick attempts…
The pitch clock has made baserunning relevant again. It is unfortunate that MLB, in the same rules change that brought the pitch clock, also outlawed the ‘shift’. It would have been awesome to watch runners challenging that, getting two bases instead of one on a steal for instance. And seeing all batters learn to bunt again, to facilitate that. Instead we have the same boring pull hitters doing the same old thing, and often getting hits only because fielders are not allowed to play them where they hit the ball. I know the current homer-focused game excites the morons who love watching choreographed ‘celebrations’ by players, but to real fans of the game it’s idiotic.
You make good content, but you need to learn how to structure sentences and when to take speaking breaks. Start at 2:00 for example. You say "Stolen bases had fallen out of favor... with so many power hitters in the MLB." There's no need for a break there. There are dozens of these odd pauses throughout the video. You rush when you should be slowing for emphasis and you pause when you should be finishing a thought. Maybe your attempt to seem fast-paced and engaging is leaving you short on breath? If that's the case, don't worry about that. When you make good content, no one will fret that your video is 3% longer because you pause (properly) for emphasis or well-placed breathes between sentences.
You also need to make sure what you're saying is accurate. At 4:20, you say stealing 40 bases a season today would easily lead the league. That's just flat out not true. The only year 40 would have led MLB in steals would be the shortened 2020 season. 40 last year would have landed you 2nd, not "easily first."
I don't mean to seem hyper-critical. I hope this helps you become a better, more thoughtful speaker... because you make good points, but a lot of them might not land due to how they're being structured.
At 4:11, Rickey stole 1,406 bases, not 1,408...
Surprised the stadiums was never mentioned. Those old stadiums from the 60's-90's were huge, they started to resize most of the stadiums after the '94 strike to increase HRs and of course fan experiences.
great vid 👍
Turn the playback speed down to 0.75 to understand this guy. Too many rapid-fire stats being thrown out...
I'm only for bringing them "back" if people can actually do them. It's dumb to just throw away a precious out if you can't steal a base or hit and run for crap.
So basically runners started getting faster and realizing when they started making strategies that stealing bases helps a lot, so they exploited that untill catchers and pitchers got better at what they did and started stopping base runners, now catchers are so fast and good unless your super human it’s not worth the risk to try and steal a bag because those outs are huge when it gets later in the game. Just another nuance piece of a strategy that baseball has to endure. I don’t think people realize how much of baseball is strategy, especially in a 160 something game season and trying to win a World Series, that’s why I always say you have to be just as lucky as you are good to win in baseball because you still have to have your strategy work out even if you are the best team in baseball and sometimes it just dosent, that’s why playoffs are series and not single games
Get faster
And you also have to think of the natural progression of the sport also, of course players are going to get better and better over time, it happens in every sport, technology gets better people learn what works and dosent over time and people push the limits..
Nobody finds it a little funny that the Godfathers of base stealing we're all black?😂
Baseball is most exciting when every strategy is viable and used.
Stolen bases, sac bunts and flies, complete games, among other goners.
We didn’t, the sabermetricists did
To quote Homer Simpson
NNNNEEEEEERRRRRRDDDDDSS
I was doing some research and in a sample size of a little over 1000 pickoff throws in 2022, only 3.6% of those pickoffs were actually successful! That's freaking horrible! Pitchers aren't taught to pickoff anymore because runners aren't going anywhere. It really sucks how we've had two lost arts in the game as a result of teams perserving their precious outs because the risk/reward just isn't worth it. Even Andrew Friedman once said he wished there were more stolen bases in the game and that a new rule change could help. Well, hopefully this pickoff disengagement rule slowly shifts that back to the rewards of stealing a base outweighing the risk of getting caught