@@alexpickle2413 don’t bother, it destroyed my life… too late. Stay far away if you want your life and sanity intact. Hindsight is a bitch. I’m completely destroyed and in the process of selling my things to end my life.
@@jaymiegill9506yeah man I man maybe there's a reason ive swayed away from certain things. I think you can't take certain things in life and its good to enjoy things as well. wishing you the best brother .
Grof's work informed the beginning of my own awakening process 30 odd years ago. I felt deeply grateful for how it made some sense of my experience at that time. What i would add to this content are a few critical pieces. One there is no objective reality... the body itself is arising out of consciousness (its all one).... so thus is the perceiver, and that each point of view is shaped from that point of perception. Two, hopelessness (which most of us wish to avoid at all costs) is part of the formula that enables and incites great transformation... the willingness to directly experience it, has incredible potential, the resistance to experiencing is to remain locked in a view based on survival. Deep breath :-).... and last but by no means least, what is imperative is to understand that integration, unification, and wholeness is the way... this is a paradoxical integration of a time space reality (linear)... and eternity (now... a singularity).... a place where life and death merge. Part of what is required for that unification is the ability to hold a field (unconditional love) that embraces all experience, all phenomena, including the separate sense of self who is observing.
i have been reading some of stan grof-s work and i can say that this man really is something special.He is unique in psychedelic world because he dared to go out of the frontiers of human mind.
Enormous enrichement and extension of Jungs research. I did holoropic breathing for a long time. And met Stan Grod 2 times in Germany. His titanic life work has implications yet to be realised in many areas.
The revelation concerning the identity of the individual with the divine is the ultimate secret that lies at the mystical core of all great spiritual traditions ~ Stanislav Grof
Since reading "The Way of the Psychonaut " and "Spiritual Emergency", Stan Grof became a favorite. And listening to him speak has always been soothing and incisive. His work supports Jungian thought.
The world needs more people like Stanislav Grof. Thank you for this interview and bringing this inspiring person to more people. I strongly recommend Grof's books to anyone interested in these topics, they're fantastic.
I am thrilled that you've had a conversation with Stan, a man of such great influence & importance in the human potential movement, it can hardly be understated.
You would not believe the synchronicity that led me to this video, or perhaps you would.. including details touched on in it. I wrote about Jung, linear causality, synchronicity and even mentioned Rupert Sheldrake yesterday. This morning, I watched this video. It's literally the second source that I've ever heard talk about linear causality or mention Sheldrake's name, in all of my 35 years. How synchronous! Very odd. Great video, perfect timing.
This resonates, I was institutionalised against my will and diagnosed bi-polar and medicated when undergoing a 'manic episode', I have long considered this 'episode' to have been a way of my brain to heal myself, felt deeply calm and connected, had deep dialogues with my higher self, didn't feel the same pull towards my intense cigarette addiction etc etc, I feel robbed of the experience as the pills abruptly took it away, and the interference changed my experience.
I’ve had 3 “manic episodes” where unfortunately I experienced “psychosis” where I started believing I was Jesus. I also feel robbed of the experiences and was forcibly institutionalized and medicated
I am 72 now and I was a guinea pig for lsd , I was in the hospital in the 1960's , I was in my twenties , they tried to find out what happened to me when i was about four years old, it did work but it was very frightening, I would not take it for kicks.
This channel is really shaping up to something big. Thanks for bringing me this. My favorite part is at the very end with that bit about religion. 49:47
Yet more fascinating ideas and discussions, stretching my viewing a little in all directions. Very, very interesting for a multitude of reasons. Perfect. 10/10
Thanks so much for Getting Stan grof on the show. This has widened my understanding about the interests of this channel. My interest just went up! Would love to see some sort of interview with Peterson, Ken Wilbur and of course yourself (in good time). This is getting hot! Such a convergence point!!
Interesting Stan Grof seems to not so much answer the questions but interpret them out of the personal realm and translate into the transpersonal realm. Maybe in this way he can teach not only the interviewer but also the audience in a subtle way, to transcend the personal.
What a great interview. I liked most the part at the end where Stan says something along the lines that a true religion should posit a transparent deity so we don't confound it for the truly transcendent, which is universal- Great food for thought!
There's a great 3 hour long interview with Stan on The Tim Ferriss Show podcast from last November, where Stan answers all of the Tim's questions rather directly, although many of the questions relate to what was extensively covered in Stan's books. I did get a few wonderful extra details though, so highly recommend listening to the podcast episode. Also, Stan had a minor stroke last August (there was a now deleted message regarding the stroke on the official website, still available in the cache), maybe he's still dealing with the aftermath of that.
Another great interview there David. I can see Stan is showing his age and crystilization of mental fluidness as he missed some of Dave's questions and rambled on with his life's observations. This is not a criticism of him in any way because he has toiled hard in the Lord's vineyard preparing the soil to yeild fruit when it is time. God bless you Stan Grof.
Thank you David for talking about your own mystical experience. It's something I wish was spoken about more often, having had a very similar experience myself!
Being of Indian origin and a proud Hindu(not fundamentalist or dogmatic, I don’t poo poo other religions - to each their own) with a scientific bent of mind, this resonates deeply with me. Thank you
Stan Grof, M.D., Ph. D, tells us that our bodies and psyches may be able to heal their selves. Experiencing the spiritual state could support this healing. When we are well we may be better able to grow up and show up for the benefit of all beings. 🙂
Very interesting! I'd like to hear more from Mr. Stan Grof, his mentions of particular holotropic realms of experience caught my attention - particularly the mentions of a Sumerian underworld and a practicable means to experience it/them. Also, the endogenous psychosis is quite an unusual term - though it describes the general locale of the symptom, it doesn't identify a particular causal locale within the body. A new way of saying 'psychosis of unknown endogenous cause; pending further investigation' maybe? #greattalk
I had psychosis threw meds away after 2 hospitaslizations never taken any kinds of drugs cured myself with self reflection and personal development and having a daily assessnent and goal plan financial physical social psychological family friends recreational etc .now at 60 joyful feel free travelled dozens countries successful marriage relationships great education great jobs responsibility no ptsd no anxiety .now lead low dopamine minimalistic downsized life with few but true friends etc.feel completely empowered .money not the motivator just experiences .have had lucid dreams out of body experiences etc without any drugs not even cannabis
Hi Rebel Wisdom. I appreciate your content a lot. I would like to offer to translate this interview to Spanish if you'd be interested in creating subtitles. If so please get in touch. Thanks and keep up the good work
Tried holotrophic breathing a few times, guided and unguided. The results were well beyond what I thought would happen. It opens up spaces that are just as powerful as psychedelics. Worth understanding how to do it yourself (basically just hyperventilation) for the dystopian future where all us trouble makers are in the gulag for wrongthink I wonder whether society will ever reach a point where it is widely accepted that trauma begets shadows and that shadows can be revealed and dissolved by holotrophic states.
@Stefano Provenzi yes, that video shows him breathing at one point and that is the rate and depth of breathing you need. That's exactly what I've done at home a few times and every time it put me into that "higher wisdom" state. I do wonder whether there might be some risk in that kind of breathing however. I would like to see graphs of CO2 levels and so on. Hypocapnia can definitely cause harm in certain circumstances, so I'm suspicious. Makes me think that psilocybin is probably safer, but I'm just speculating and in need of more information.
I had tingling in my arms and hands. I can't actually recall much else but I remember having similar sensations during meditation. Will try next week against. Had a rather upsetting dream afterwards about my exboyfriend.
I think life IS a synchronicity in and of itself and what the interviewer reports here, that he was irritaded by his realisation that everything was so snychronistic in his altered states, i think he was just overwhelmed by how this universe in essence really functions, namely by synchronicities a 100%, everyday in every situation, let that sink in everybody.. there are NO coincidents EVER. :) consciousness IS creative power.
I prefer the word "deflected" to "dodged". RW was authentically wanting to pull SG into an emotionally honest, emotionally intimate dialogue perhaps a little naively - whereas SG could already see the depths of what it would unveil. Reflects a deep love and care.
I've been re-defining terms/words in order to clarify my own perspective of my "inner" life. Words are as tainted with reputation as any severely warped human can be. If a system of inquiry is taking ahold of false premises and running with them then, the terminology born of these pursuits will be inadequate and wholly mis-directing. If you adopt my current meaning for "Inner life", you experience a cascading of clarifications that shine a bright light on the workings of the psyche and the relationship dynamics that are the invisible structures of first hand felt direct personal experience. If you change the term "inner life" to "Experiential life" you have a more sensical and user friendly model to work with. I teased out the perspective of materialism that currently dominates most of scientific inquiry. If you use the relationship between nouns and verbs as an analogy, it simplifies the work even more. (cred to Bucky Fuller for inspiring the noun/verb idea) As hard core materialist cohorts, we've all become noun dominated and verb blind. We are steeped in the notion that, something must be measurable, physical and tangible to be real. This leaves our verb experiences in a sort of blurry, ethereal, woo woo context and thus, we have half of the story and a warped narrative. Our verb life, our experiential life is the constant and ever present ACTION of life. I identify two species of MOVEMENT - 1.) Action- the movement of simultaneous phenomena, the movement of simultaneity. Action is the constant and continuous ground of being. The immeasurable, nonphysical states of awareness. No-thing-ness. 2.) Motion - the movement of sequenced phenomena and space/time events, physical movement. Our experiential life is action and meaning-centric and is the fundamental originating relationship structure that gives rise to measurable motion and events (things). A fun and easy thought experiment is to switch out the term "inner life" with experiential or action life where ever you encounter it. For example, listen to this entire interview and apply the experiment and see for your self if you gain more insight concerning the nature of your psyche, your life and your being. Cheers.
Dr. Grof is truly an amazing man who is a source of an incredible amount of knowledge and wisdom! Certainly one of the best guests featured on this channel. I just wish that the host was much more familiar with Grof's work (meaning: that he had read some, or at least more, of his books!)! I was also very disappointed by how he tried to turn this into a personal therapy session, essentially forcing the guest to comfort and console him (to keep from coming across as insensitive). What a wasted opportunity! I mean, Grof managed to make this interview something good, but that was in spite of the host, not thanks to the host. Very disappointing actually...
Arthur Janov's 'Primal Scream' Therapy (1970; second edition 1999) was/is able to access preliterate memories/experiences including birth and all manner of experienced trauma and parental neglect, and in addition, assist in healing them. Also without the use of psychedelics.
I had tried primal therapy for years and can testify with certainty that it is not very good at facilitating access to these early states, & I am not the only one to come out of that primal world who thinks so. Psychedelic plant medicines are so superior in giving access. And more than this the modality that the medicines are operating from is so much greater than the essential materialist position that Janov adopted, he was very limited in his view which was a shame as he did contribute something of importance.
Hampton Gray Thank you Hampton. Like so many of us, I’ve spent a great deal of time looking for a truly successful therapeutic regime. I personally wouldn’t have the intestinal fortitude to use psychedelics or drugs, but aside from that I’m not convinced that no matter how successful one is in accessing ‘the primal scene’ and working through that, it seems to me that there is no way to rebuild a healthy, competent psyche even though the old inadequate foundations of childhood trauma and/or neglect have been stripped away or at least laid bear. I know how to do it with horses, and there are some “equine assisted human psychotherapies” available who work wonders with certain ‘hopeless cases . ..... hmmmmmmm I know my own equines have assisted me more than any therapist .... :)
John Lennon didn't do primal therapy for very long and I hear that Yoko was very resistant & competed with it, so not much of a success story. I think Tears For Fears (the pop group) had much more of a committed process with it, hence the name.
45:00 it just gets really really tedious when someone expert in one area riffs on another that they have clearly no real knowledge. Enviro-hysteria is depressingly common. Stay in your lane, doc
This guy is the real deal 'Stage yellow thinker' of spiral dynamics. Not sure I could even give Peterson that crown, with my current understanding of him.
I guess the unfair comments here are from people who never met Dr Grof.. I’ve been lucky enough to attend a seminar with him in 2008 WorldPsychedelic Forum in Basel. His presence is amazing, the audience was spell-bound, his compassion and generosity of spirit made us feel we were in the presence of a true bodhisattva.
48:00 - Stan Grof overstates the damage of Chernobyl. Nature deradiated the area a long time ago and people have moved back. Chernobyl happened because the USSR built the reactor on the cheap with (in typical dictatorial fashion) disregard for the safety of the people: the reactors were built with several design flaws such as a lack of a containment dome, their cooling system had a positive void coefficient (the hotter the core gets the greater the reactivity), and the reactor contained carbon which caused the fire (which projected radioactive material up into the upper atmosphere causing it to be carried across most of Europe). Much of the public health impact of Chernobyl was the result of the Soviet government's attempt to cover up the crisis, rather than moving quickly to inform and protect the public. Emergency response workers were not informed about the dangers (eg. firefighters had no protective clothing). With today's hindsight, experience, vastly improved technology and stricter protocols, such accidents are virtually impossible. Nuclear energy is the solution to the global energy crisis and oil wars. It would have been much better if he had mentioned Nagasaki or Hiroshima: instances of deliberate man-made mass murder. 5,000 people died in Chernobyl, 200,000 died in Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined. Check out Michael Shellenberger for more info.
I always wondered why I felt great after LSD, had a few bad trips always being chased by three 8ft tall entity's, but even that was pretty profound. Is there a link to the Breathing technique that he was talking about?
Agree with 95 percent of this man's views, however, when he nonchalantly said "violence should be outlawed" I started laughing out loud. The state has a monopoly on violence. If you take away the state's monopoly on violence you give it back to the people, which in turn would just create again the need for the laws that outlaw violence, WHICH THE STATE WOULD ENFORCE WITH ITS MONOPOLY ON VIOLENCE. If there is no violence behind the law its not a law, its a mere friendly suggestion: "Hey could you guys not be violent anymore please, mmkay, thank you."
A law is a law if it's being universally followed regardless of why. Even a mere friendly suggestion makes a law iff the subjects are highly suggestible and have zero conflicting interests. In practice, the required amount of violence depends on how much the law differs from people's natural instincts. The more diverse those instincts, the more violence needed to uphold the law.
The problem of having to enforce laws with violence, which itself violates others laws, ie the monopoly on violence a state possesses is a pretty well known problem. I am sorry it is beyond your understanding.
@@Emceeloki Well... thank you for these carefully repeated casual insults, but I'd like to point out that in your robust reasoning you _completely_ ignore both the context and the viewpoint of Stanislav Grof who made the ridiculous claim in the first place. Or do you actually think he was commenting on legislation and law enforcement and making the mistake of ignoring the problematics of monopoly of violence? If you do, you must have totally misunderstood the rest of the interview that you say you fully agree with. For example - how can you be comfortable with the idea that our notion of linear, temporal causality is incorrect or incomplete, but maintain that our notion of the problematics of state monopoly to violence is correct and that it would be laughable to suggest otherwise? Plus all the rest you just agreed with. If you don't see the inconsistency, I don't know what to tell you. No offense.
I'm affraid that many great minds lack the intellectual humility to conceed that subjective experiences, however mystical in appearance, might not be mystical in nature. There is a deep human will to believe in the extraordinary before the ordinary.
John Legar Those distinctions are not the issue. Is the bond between a mother and her child extraordinary or ordinary? Perfectly ordinary of course, but if you devalue it on that basis you are a brute. Similarly there are other features of subjectivity you may devalue, or suppress for various reasons, at great cost to humanity.
@@johnlegar7235 What do you mean by energy? Please give me an answer that is: 1) based strictly on observation, 2) exhaustive as far as describing the phenomenon (e.g. where it came from), and 3) appeals to no metaphysical (epistemic or ontological) a priori givens. Then do this for time (spacetime is OK). All science is based on metaphysical presumptions. By "ordinary" you probably mean, "based on my metaphysical presumptions regarding physicalism".
@@konberner170 , both matter and energy are measurable or quantifiable properties. Proponants of metaphysics want to imagine a new paradigm of reality in which only consciousness and "spirituality" are predominant. However, as the realm of consciousness is presently outside the orbit of our understanding, it is irrational to conclude that consciousness exists outside of the scientific domain. It is an argument from ignorance. As the field of neuroscience expands, we may yet come to understand, measure and locate experience. Again, this demands intellectual humility on the part of those who believe that consciousness is a mystical realm which science has no right or ability to explore.
@@johnlegar7235 You were unable to answer my question. What is energy, where did it come from, and answer this without any metaphysical presumptions? If you can't do this, you must admit that you are employing metaphysical presumption in your view. Claiming that science is necessarily a "more real" metaphysics than others is based on what? This is where science becomes Scientism, and is no longer based on skepticism. It is not argument form ignorance to point out the _fact_ that you do not know where physical laws came from, and therefore do not understand them. You cannot then claim that this either "doesn't matter" or "they just popped out of nowhere and that is enough understanding". The standard model is not complete, there is no validated theory of everything, but you want me to believe that it is irrational to speculate about consciousness? I would call this being unscientific as science is antithetical to Scientism. Science is about skepticism, including (or even especially) regarding its own presumptions.
At 6:48 I really wish he had given a direct answer to the question. In order for my left brained rationality to understand this, I want someone to give direct answers to direct questions. In fact, he seems completely unable to answer any questions at all. He just has a speil to deliver. This makes me distrust him immensely.
LSD over expands the aura and separates the authentic feeling body away from the physical body. Reconnecting the authentic feeling body back into the physical body is possible with a teacher who is connected within him or herself and can see the aura and spirit and see how it connects to the physical body and knows how to reconnect it for others for them to be aware of everything affecting their body and spirit ( physically and on a feeling level ) my teacher met Stan Grof ( actually I met Stan also yet before I met my teacher ) and he could see that Stan was not in his body and after reading Stan’s books he thought that Stan would have been more connected with his body on a feeling level and he was expecting to see that he was, yet when he saw Stan he was shocked to see that he was in a huge separation and after doing the class with the breathwork taught by Stan ( while having his best friend there to guide him ) his experience was that the exercises caused him to separate from his body also and he said that it took him a year to get fully back in his body again. Since my teacher can see the aura initially he was shocked to see that Stan was not in his body (since from reading his books before meeting him he had thought that Stan would have been connected) Drugs are part of what causes the spirit and the feelings to separate from the body. Also any repetitive controlled breathing and there are certain sounds or music that assists in taking people’s mental awareness more out into a trance state. Drugs are not a healing path. Bodywork and massage reconnects people with their body and feelings. The work of Alexander Lowen, John Pierrakos and Wilhelm Reich focus more on connecting with feelings. There is a cellular memory and feeling our feelings in our body and openly emoting in the present moment connects us with our truth and feeling more in our body. Also we have to keep our eyes open and only experience relaxed breathing (not any hyper breathing or ritualized or controlled breathing since that separates the aetheric body - the lungta or wind horse away from the body )
He doesn't give a direct answer because the 'significance' of experience, which is what the question is about, is likely to be run over by left-brain judgement. I'm talking about significance as an enlivened sense of meaning, of meaningful participation, in experience, which we have trampled over because we apply explanatory filters and make judgements far too quickly. Leading to the crisis of meaning. The art of a balanced psychological life is to hold experience lightly so that it has its own life - not to be too eager to divide and favour, promote or exclude using the left-brain filters. Those are the factors that pervert 'spiritual' experiences and either flatten and destroy them or turn them into other rigidities such as dogma and ideology. It's like a relationship that develops naturally on its own if you give it room, but too often you look for assurances so that you can double down and pursue your plans for it. But relationship is not formulaic, so if you pursue it too aggressively you will make it false and lifeless. You want something significant, but your left-brain instinct for formulaic security makes it mundane.
@@tbayley6 I'd say that he cannot give an answer, because synchronicity is, from my own experience, _always_ both highly meaningful and uncertain at the same time. That is the magic of it. I have had experiences of synchronicity that are astronomically unlikely, but while this is obviously going to strike me as very meaningful, I never dismiss the possibility that it may have been chance. Having had very many such experiences, they always have this interesting characteristic of being both meaningful, but not in any certain/absolute sense.
The problem of science is the materialist paradigm. If mainstream science were to realize the Truth, namely that there is nothing but one consciousness split up into individual aspects, they would make such unfathomable leaps in scientific progress.
I thought they were quite interesting questions but he didnt really answer the questions, he just continues his own story and the interviewer is respectful. I think he asks a good question because these new methods of psychedelics and breathing can produce deep experiences so easily, it can be scary, and you have to ask, how do we integrate this.
For those commenting on the interviewer's 'me'-ness, this is EXACTLY what happens when we live in a SIMP-ified generation where healthy ego is seen as something negative. Certain cockiness, arrogance and authority is attractive in men. But Simp-generation would have you believe otherwise where interviewer is not allowed to have opinion. Man during times like this Em released another f.f.i.n. Rap God.
seems to me very few people think clearly and open-mindedly about abortion...they don't think about it, don't really address the "other side's" best arguments, and don't want to talk about the facts of what abortion involves. Early abortion involves the more-or-less instant annihilation of a relatively unarticulated proto-organism by suction. But mid-to-late-term abortion involves truly horrific violence against an undeniably sentient, genetically human being. Most abortions are relatively early, but where is the line? Viability, says Roe v. Wade, but in practice, modern technology makes the point of viability earlier and earlier, and exemptions are made for the "health of the mother," broadly construed as her psychological health (IOW if she would be caused psychological distress by having the baby, then abortion is allowed, however late). Also, the gruesomeness starts to become an issue long before viability, as I think an open-minded consideration would agree to. (Look up photos of fetuses at various points in the pregnancy timeline. Look up what a saline abortion involves, or "D and C" abortion--both of which are procedures for late abortion.) The best argument of pro-choice is the woman's right to privacy and control over her own body. The best pro-life argument is an open-eyed consideration of what actually happens in abortion, along with an acknowledgment that the fetus is, genetically speaking, a distinct organism and is not just a part of the woman's body, though it is completely dependent on it until viability. Once the fetus has a nervous system at all, there is undeniably great pain inflicted by abortion on a genetically human organism (however inchoate and dependent). Perhaps a good entryway to rational discussion would be to consider whether we should anesthetize the fetus prior to abortion, at least in the case of mid- to late-term abortion. If not, why not? Based on these considerations, my own opinion is that we as a society should make a fairly discrete distinction between early and mid-to-late term abortion, allowing the former and severely restricting the latter. But this position is, I find, too nuanced for either pro-choice or pro-life people to endorse. Each side wants to make it a black-or-white issue, with similar stridency on each side of the debate. As a matter of social policy, I think we should put much more effort into educating and advocating for early detection of pregnancy, and early abortion over later abortion. Just my fallible opinion, though.
His book helped me completely change my heavily traumatised psyche. Done tons of inner work and it’s completely changed my life. 🙏🏽
which book?
@@alexpickle2413 don’t bother, it destroyed my life… too late. Stay far away if you want your life and sanity intact. Hindsight is a bitch. I’m completely destroyed and in the process of selling my things to end my life.
@@jaymiegill9506yeah man I man maybe there's a reason ive swayed away from certain things. I think you can't take certain things in life and its good to enjoy things as well. wishing you the best brother .
@@alexpickle2413 don’t donit
are you okay?...@@jaymiegill9506
Grof's work informed the beginning of my own awakening process 30 odd years ago. I felt deeply grateful for how it made some sense of my experience at that time. What i would add to this content are a few critical pieces. One there is no objective reality... the body itself is arising out of consciousness (its all one).... so thus is the perceiver, and that each point of view is shaped from that point of perception. Two, hopelessness (which most of us wish to avoid at all costs) is part of the formula that enables and incites great transformation... the willingness to directly experience it, has incredible potential, the resistance to experiencing is to remain locked in a view based on survival. Deep breath :-).... and last but by no means least, what is imperative is to understand that integration, unification, and wholeness is the way... this is a paradoxical integration of a time space reality (linear)... and eternity (now... a singularity).... a place where life and death merge. Part of what is required for that unification is the ability to hold a field (unconditional love) that embraces all experience, all phenomena, including the separate sense of self who is observing.
Thank you. Interesting. Would love to know more.
i have been reading some of stan grof-s work and i can say that this man really is something special.He is unique in psychedelic world because he dared to go out of the frontiers of human mind.
"In future years, Stan Grof will be seen as one of the most significant and revolutionary psychiatrists in history." - HE ALREADY IS!
❤❤❤
Enormous enrichement and extension of Jungs research. I did holoropic breathing for a long time. And met Stan Grod 2 times in Germany. His titanic life work has implications yet to be realised in many areas.
The revelation concerning the identity of the individual with the divine is the ultimate secret that lies at the mystical core of all great spiritual traditions ~ Stanislav Grof
Since reading "The Way of the Psychonaut " and "Spiritual Emergency", Stan Grof became a favorite. And listening to him speak has always been soothing and incisive. His work supports Jungian thought.
You've interviewed him better than most I've seen in the tube. Right questions and u let the man flow. ✌️✌️
The world needs more people like Stanislav Grof.
Thank you for this interview and bringing this inspiring person to more people.
I strongly recommend Grof's books to anyone interested in these topics, they're fantastic.
I am thrilled that you've had a conversation with Stan, a man of such great influence & importance in the human potential movement, it can hardly be understated.
Great interview great interviewee. it got more personal when the interviewer put himself so much into it. Spiritual Revolution !
You would not believe the synchronicity that led me to this video, or perhaps you would.. including details touched on in it. I wrote about Jung, linear causality, synchronicity and even mentioned Rupert Sheldrake yesterday. This morning, I watched this video. It's literally the second source that I've ever heard talk about linear causality or mention Sheldrake's name, in all of my 35 years. How synchronous! Very odd. Great video, perfect timing.
Timing is everything!
This resonates, I was institutionalised against my will and diagnosed bi-polar and medicated when undergoing a 'manic episode', I have long considered this 'episode' to have been a way of my brain to heal myself, felt deeply calm and connected, had deep dialogues with my higher self, didn't feel the same pull towards my intense cigarette addiction etc etc, I feel robbed of the experience as the pills abruptly took it away, and the interference changed my experience.
I also had grandiose ideas of completing jungs work on personality types
I’ve had 3 “manic episodes” where unfortunately I experienced “psychosis” where I started believing I was Jesus. I also feel robbed of the experiences and was forcibly institutionalized and medicated
I am 72 now and I was a guinea pig for lsd , I was in the hospital in the 1960's , I was in my twenties , they tried to find out what happened to me when i was about four years old, it did work but it was very frightening, I would not take it for kicks.
This channel is really shaping up to something big. Thanks for bringing me this. My favorite part is at the very end with that bit about religion. 49:47
This should really have 17 million views at least
Wow! That moment when the books and studies you've read come to life. Great interview! More! More!
the most wonderful way to express what spirituality is💞
Yet more fascinating ideas and discussions, stretching my viewing a little in all directions. Very, very interesting for a multitude of reasons. Perfect. 10/10
Ty
Thanks so much for Getting Stan grof on the show. This has widened my understanding about the interests of this channel. My interest just went up! Would love to see some sort of interview with Peterson, Ken Wilbur and of course yourself (in good time). This is getting hot! Such a convergence point!!
I come for the chat and stay for the comments. Thanks, community!
Interesting Stan Grof seems to not so much answer the questions but interpret them out of the personal realm and translate into the transpersonal realm. Maybe in this way he can teach not only the interviewer but also the audience in a subtle way, to transcend the personal.
i noticed that, thought it was interesting
Stan's the man.
Of all the channels that I have ever subscribed to, in TH-cam, this channel has outdone itself in brilliant content.
Namaste 🙏🏻
At minute 22 i realized that they were having a session and the psychologist were comforting the interviewer
My hero.
Stan Grof is amazing. Thanks so much for this interview
Thank you. Insightful.
I read his books 1981. About LSD therapy. He opened my eyes and help me To trust my own perspective about mental Health issues.
I first read about Grof some years ago, great to find him again here on your channel.
Thank you for introducing to such great minds! :)
Enjoyed the talk......Thanks for uploading....
What a great interview. I liked most the part at the end where Stan says something along the lines that a true religion should posit a transparent deity so we don't confound it for the truly transcendent, which is universal- Great food for thought!
One of the best Interviews so far David! So great!!!
Hello, my teacher. Nice to see you again.
There's a great 3 hour long interview with Stan on The Tim Ferriss Show podcast from last November, where Stan answers all of the Tim's questions rather directly, although many of the questions relate to what was extensively covered in Stan's books. I did get a few wonderful extra details though, so highly recommend listening to the podcast episode.
Also, Stan had a minor stroke last August (there was a now deleted message regarding the stroke on the official website, still available in the cache), maybe he's still dealing with the aftermath of that.
what an amazing ,rewarding video.........much more enriching than culture war ping pong.
Another great interview there David. I can see Stan is showing his age and crystilization of mental fluidness as he missed some of Dave's questions and rambled on with his life's observations. This is not a criticism of him in any way because he has toiled hard in the Lord's vineyard preparing the soil to yeild fruit when it is time. God bless you Stan Grof.
A synchronicity is different from mere coincidence. A synchronicity leads to a meaningful transformation.
It did help me though because it let me know what happened to me when I was a child.
Thank you. I have found much value from this content.
Trans-rational.
I have a new favorite word.
Check out Ken Wilber's work for a lot of elaboration on this idea (particularly the Pre/Trans Fallacy , a critical idea as we move forward imo).
Indeed. To understand Kens Pre/Trans fallacy is a key to seeing things that bit more clearly. Then dive into Kens Integral thinking for more clarity
Thank you David for talking about your own mystical experience. It's something I wish was spoken about more often, having had a very similar experience myself!
Reality goes far deeper than most imagine, as we've been standing in the shallow end of the pool acting like this is it.
That happens when you think the world is made up of atoms 😂
Being of Indian origin and a proud Hindu(not fundamentalist or dogmatic, I don’t poo poo other religions - to each their own) with a scientific bent of mind, this resonates deeply with me. Thank you
So grateful for your channel, work and this interview. Namasté 🙏🏼👩🏼🦳❤️
Beautiful fabric.
Stan Grof, M.D., Ph. D, tells us that our bodies and psyches may be able to heal their selves. Experiencing the spiritual state could support this healing. When we are well we may be better able to grow up and show up for the benefit of all beings. 🙂
oh thank goodness for this confirmation
Very interesting! I'd like to hear more from Mr. Stan Grof, his mentions of particular holotropic realms of experience caught my attention - particularly the mentions of a Sumerian underworld and a practicable means to experience it/them.
Also, the endogenous psychosis is quite an unusual term - though it describes the general locale of the symptom, it doesn't identify a particular causal locale within the body. A new way of saying 'psychosis of unknown endogenous cause; pending further investigation' maybe?
#greattalk
I had psychosis threw meds away after 2 hospitaslizations never taken any kinds of drugs cured myself with self reflection and personal development and having a daily assessnent and goal plan financial physical social psychological family friends recreational etc .now at 60 joyful feel free travelled dozens countries successful marriage relationships great education great jobs responsibility no ptsd no anxiety .now lead low dopamine minimalistic downsized life with few but true friends etc.feel completely empowered .money not the motivator just experiences .have had lucid dreams out of body experiences etc without any drugs not even cannabis
Beautiful thank you
Spirituality is really a protoscience for human transformation.
Stanislove G
Hi Rebel Wisdom. I appreciate your content a lot. I would like to offer to translate this interview to Spanish if you'd be interested in creating subtitles. If so please get in touch.
Thanks and keep up the good work
Tried holotrophic breathing a few times, guided and unguided. The results were well beyond what I thought would happen. It opens up spaces that are just as powerful as psychedelics. Worth understanding how to do it yourself (basically just hyperventilation) for the dystopian future where all us trouble makers are in the gulag for wrongthink
I wonder whether society will ever reach a point where it is widely accepted that trauma begets shadows and that shadows can be revealed and dissolved by holotrophic states.
Where could I learn these techniques?
@Stefano Provenzi yes, that video shows him breathing at one point and that is the rate and depth of breathing you need. That's exactly what I've done at home a few times and every time it put me into that "higher wisdom" state. I do wonder whether there might be some risk in that kind of breathing however. I would like to see graphs of CO2 levels and so on. Hypocapnia can definitely cause harm in certain circumstances, so I'm suspicious. Makes me think that psilocybin is probably safer, but I'm just speculating and in need of more information.
Thanks. I tried it.
@@MrChaosAdam what happened?
I had tingling in my arms and hands. I can't actually recall much else but I remember having similar sensations during meditation. Will try next week against. Had a rather upsetting dream afterwards about my exboyfriend.
Thank You!
Give us the Ken Wilber interviews, please
all in good time ;)
everyone's so entitled on TH-cam ;)
I think life IS a synchronicity in and of itself and what the interviewer reports here, that he was irritaded by his realisation that everything was so snychronistic in his altered states, i think he was just overwhelmed by how this universe in essence really functions, namely by synchronicities a 100%, everyday in every situation, let that sink in everybody.. there are NO coincidents EVER. :)
consciousness IS creative power.
cool video. i like how grof dodged the guy's attempt for free therapy
Yep!
I prefer the word "deflected" to "dodged". RW was authentically wanting to pull SG into an emotionally honest, emotionally intimate dialogue perhaps a little naively - whereas SG could already see the depths of what it would unveil. Reflects a deep love and care.
More like he didn’t want to engage the interviewers intent of seeking validation.
I've been re-defining terms/words in order to clarify my own perspective of my "inner" life. Words are as tainted with reputation as any severely warped human can be. If a system of inquiry is taking ahold of false premises and running with them then, the terminology born of these pursuits will be inadequate and wholly mis-directing.
If you adopt my current meaning for "Inner life", you experience a cascading of clarifications that shine a bright light on the workings of the psyche and the relationship dynamics that are the invisible structures of first hand felt direct personal experience. If you change the term "inner life" to "Experiential life" you have a more sensical and user friendly model to work with. I teased out the perspective of materialism that currently dominates most of scientific inquiry. If you use the relationship between nouns and verbs as an analogy, it simplifies the work even more. (cred to Bucky Fuller for inspiring the noun/verb idea) As hard core materialist cohorts, we've all become noun dominated and verb blind. We are steeped in the notion that, something must be measurable, physical and tangible to be real. This leaves our verb experiences in a sort of blurry, ethereal, woo woo context and thus, we have half of the story and a warped narrative.
Our verb life, our experiential life is the constant and ever present ACTION of life. I identify two species of MOVEMENT - 1.) Action- the movement of simultaneous phenomena, the movement of simultaneity. Action is the constant and continuous ground of being. The immeasurable, nonphysical states of awareness. No-thing-ness. 2.) Motion - the movement of sequenced phenomena and space/time events, physical movement.
Our experiential life is action and meaning-centric and is the fundamental originating relationship structure that gives rise to measurable motion and events (things). A fun and easy thought experiment is to switch out the term "inner life" with experiential or action life where ever you encounter it. For example, listen to this entire interview and apply the experiment and see for your self if you gain more insight concerning the nature of your psyche, your life and your being. Cheers.
Thanks for your insightful comment. David Bohm has some interesting thoughts on MOVEMENT.
Masterpiece!!
I would love to talk to someone about this.
TRUST it !!!
Him and Ervin Laszlo possible the two wisest people out there
Who is Ervin László?
Dr. Grof is truly an amazing man who is a source of an incredible amount of knowledge and wisdom! Certainly one of the best guests featured on this channel.
I just wish that the host was much more familiar with Grof's work (meaning: that he had read some, or at least more, of his books!)! I was also very disappointed by how he tried to turn this into a personal therapy session, essentially forcing the guest to comfort and console him (to keep from coming across as insensitive).
What a wasted opportunity!
I mean, Grof managed to make this interview something good, but that was in spite of the host, not thanks to the host. Very disappointing actually...
Arthur Janov's 'Primal Scream' Therapy (1970; second edition 1999) was/is able to access preliterate memories/experiences including birth and all manner of experienced trauma and parental neglect, and in addition, assist in healing them. Also without the use of psychedelics.
I had tried primal therapy for years and can testify with certainty that it is not very good at facilitating access to these early states, & I am not the only one to come out of that primal world who thinks so. Psychedelic plant medicines are so superior in giving access. And more than this the modality that the medicines are operating from is so much greater than the essential materialist position that Janov adopted, he was very limited in his view which was a shame as he did contribute something of importance.
Janet Jacks Thank you very much for your info !
My own experience deals exclusively with equestrian rehabilitation ....
John Lennon wrote several songs from his experiences with primal scream therapy
Hampton Gray Thank you Hampton. Like so many of us, I’ve spent a great deal of time looking for a truly successful therapeutic regime.
I personally wouldn’t have the intestinal fortitude to use psychedelics or drugs, but aside from that I’m not convinced that no matter how successful one is in accessing ‘the primal scene’ and working through that, it seems to me that there is no way to rebuild a healthy, competent psyche even though the old inadequate foundations of childhood trauma and/or neglect have been stripped away or at least laid bear.
I know how to do it with horses, and there are some “equine assisted human psychotherapies” available who work wonders with certain ‘hopeless cases . ..... hmmmmmmm
I know my own equines have assisted me more than any therapist .... :)
John Lennon didn't do primal therapy for very long and I hear that Yoko was very resistant & competed with it, so not much of a success story. I think Tears For Fears (the pop group) had much more of a committed process with it, hence the name.
45:00 it just gets really really tedious when someone expert in one area riffs on another that they have clearly no real knowledge. Enviro-hysteria is depressingly common. Stay in your lane, doc
This guy is the real deal 'Stage yellow thinker' of spiral dynamics. Not sure I could even give Peterson that crown, with my current understanding of him.
The mind is an amazing thing
I guess the unfair comments here are from people who never met Dr Grof.. I’ve been lucky enough to attend a seminar with him in 2008 WorldPsychedelic Forum in Basel. His presence is amazing, the audience was spell-bound, his compassion and generosity of spirit made us feel we were in the presence of a true bodhisattva.
48:00 - Stan Grof overstates the damage of Chernobyl. Nature deradiated the area a long time ago and people have moved back. Chernobyl happened because the USSR built the reactor on the cheap with (in typical dictatorial fashion) disregard for the safety of the people: the reactors were built with several design flaws such as a lack of a containment dome, their cooling system had a positive void coefficient (the hotter the core gets the greater the reactivity), and the reactor contained carbon which caused the fire (which projected radioactive material up into the upper atmosphere causing it to be carried across most of Europe). Much of the public health impact of Chernobyl was the result of the Soviet government's attempt to cover up the crisis, rather than moving quickly to inform and protect the public. Emergency response workers were not informed about the dangers (eg. firefighters had no protective clothing). With today's hindsight, experience, vastly improved technology and stricter protocols, such accidents are virtually impossible. Nuclear energy is the solution to the global energy crisis and oil wars. It would have been much better if he had mentioned Nagasaki or Hiroshima: instances of deliberate man-made mass murder. 5,000 people died in Chernobyl, 200,000 died in Nagasaki and Hiroshima combined.
Check out Michael Shellenberger for more info.
wise man
I don't know if Stan is way too next level for answering the guy's questions (synchronicity etc) or if he's just not paying heed to them
I always wondered why I felt great after LSD, had a few bad trips always being chased by three 8ft tall entity's, but even that was pretty profound. Is there a link to the Breathing technique that he was talking about?
It's called Holotropic Breathwork. A subcategory of a general method called 'breathwork'.
Four the older ones it was the tip of the ice berg, four me it was like the tip of the vulcano with lovely warm water at the bottom
We are rare
... but where can i get those chairs !?
This interview has made me a bit less self-conscious about still having an accent.
He ain't that bad for an eastern european. Vloggers that are younger then him from eesti have way worse accents. That v ; t : ș so on...
@@otiliu "Eastern european"*TRIGGERED*
hell yes
Increasing synchronicities...a dead giveaway, but how to interpret and move forward without ending up in the looney bin?
a little eccentricity might just get you out of the looney bin.
You end up in the looney bin if you accept it is insanity. If you instead accept it is normal you will end up wherever you want.
Agree with 95 percent of this man's views, however, when he nonchalantly said "violence should be outlawed" I started laughing out loud. The state has a monopoly on violence. If you take away the state's monopoly on violence you give it back to the people, which in turn would just create again the need for the laws that outlaw violence, WHICH THE STATE WOULD ENFORCE WITH ITS MONOPOLY ON VIOLENCE. If there is no violence behind the law its not a law, its a mere friendly suggestion: "Hey could you guys not be violent anymore please, mmkay, thank you."
A law is a law if it's being universally followed regardless of why. Even a mere friendly suggestion makes a law iff the subjects are highly suggestible and have zero conflicting interests. In practice, the required amount of violence depends on how much the law differs from people's natural instincts. The more diverse those instincts, the more violence needed to uphold the law.
Well, that wasn’t a very logical train of thought.
BeyondSideshow maybe it was beyond the sideshow that is your ability to reason
The problem of having to enforce laws with violence, which itself violates others laws, ie the monopoly on violence a state possesses is a pretty well known problem. I am sorry it is beyond your understanding.
@@Emceeloki Well... thank you for these carefully repeated casual insults, but I'd like to point out that in your robust reasoning you _completely_ ignore both the context and the viewpoint of Stanislav Grof who made the ridiculous claim in the first place. Or do you actually think he was commenting on legislation and law enforcement and making the mistake of ignoring the problematics of monopoly of violence? If you do, you must have totally misunderstood the rest of the interview that you say you fully agree with. For example - how can you be comfortable with the idea that our notion of linear, temporal causality is incorrect or incomplete, but maintain that our notion of the problematics of state monopoly to violence is correct and that it would be laughable to suggest otherwise? Plus all the rest you just agreed with. If you don't see the inconsistency, I don't know what to tell you. No offense.
I'm affraid that many great minds lack the intellectual humility to conceed that subjective experiences, however mystical in appearance, might not be mystical in nature. There is a deep human will to believe in the extraordinary before the ordinary.
John Legar Those distinctions are not the issue. Is the bond between a mother and her child extraordinary or ordinary? Perfectly ordinary of course, but if you devalue it on that basis you are a brute. Similarly there are other features of subjectivity you may devalue, or suppress for various reasons, at great cost to humanity.
@@tbayley6 , by "ordinary" I merely refer to that which lies within the purview of science; matter, energy, as apposed to a metaphysical paradigm.
@@johnlegar7235 What do you mean by energy? Please give me an answer that is: 1) based strictly on observation, 2) exhaustive as far as describing the phenomenon (e.g. where it came from), and 3) appeals to no metaphysical (epistemic or ontological) a priori givens. Then do this for time (spacetime is OK). All science is based on metaphysical presumptions. By "ordinary" you probably mean, "based on my metaphysical presumptions regarding physicalism".
@@konberner170 , both matter and energy are measurable or quantifiable properties. Proponants of metaphysics want to imagine a new paradigm of reality in which only consciousness and "spirituality" are predominant. However, as the realm of consciousness is presently outside the orbit of our understanding, it is irrational to conclude that consciousness exists outside of the scientific domain. It is an argument from ignorance. As the field of neuroscience expands, we may yet come to understand, measure and locate experience. Again, this demands intellectual humility on the part of those who believe that consciousness is a mystical realm which science has no right or ability to explore.
@@johnlegar7235 You were unable to answer my question. What is energy, where did it come from, and answer this without any metaphysical presumptions? If you can't do this, you must admit that you are employing metaphysical presumption in your view. Claiming that science is necessarily a "more real" metaphysics than others is based on what? This is where science becomes Scientism, and is no longer based on skepticism. It is not argument form ignorance to point out the _fact_ that you do not know where physical laws came from, and therefore do not understand them. You cannot then claim that this either "doesn't matter" or "they just popped out of nowhere and that is enough understanding". The standard model is not complete, there is no validated theory of everything, but you want me to believe that it is irrational to speculate about consciousness?
I would call this being unscientific as science is antithetical to Scientism. Science is about skepticism, including (or even especially) regarding its own presumptions.
38:00 !!!
LSD vs. DMT.... who will win? Cage match. No holds barred.
At 6:48 I really wish he had given a direct answer to the question. In order for my left brained rationality to understand this, I want someone to give direct answers to direct questions.
In fact, he seems completely unable to answer any questions at all. He just has a speil to deliver. This makes me distrust him immensely.
to be fair, he's in his 80s now, I don't think he's deliberately avoiding the point
LSD over expands the aura and separates the authentic feeling body away from the physical body. Reconnecting the authentic feeling body back into the physical body is possible with a teacher who is connected within him or herself and can see the aura and spirit and see how it connects to the physical body and knows how to reconnect it for others for them to be aware of everything affecting their body and spirit ( physically and on a feeling level )
my teacher met Stan Grof ( actually I met Stan also yet before I met my teacher ) and he could see that Stan was not in his body and after reading Stan’s books he thought that Stan would have been more connected with his body on a feeling level and he was expecting to see that he was, yet when he saw Stan he was shocked to see that he was in a huge separation and after doing the class with the breathwork taught by Stan ( while having his best friend there to guide him ) his experience was that the exercises caused him to separate from his body also and he said that it took him a year to get fully back in his body again. Since my teacher can see the aura initially he was shocked to see that Stan was not in his body (since from reading his books before meeting him he had thought that Stan would have been connected)
Drugs are part of what causes the spirit and the feelings to separate from the body. Also any repetitive controlled breathing and there are certain sounds or music that assists in taking people’s mental awareness more out into a trance state. Drugs are not a healing path. Bodywork and massage reconnects people with their body and feelings.
The work of Alexander Lowen, John Pierrakos and Wilhelm Reich focus more on connecting with feelings. There is a cellular memory and feeling our feelings in our body and openly emoting in the present moment connects us with our truth and feeling more in our body.
Also we have to keep our eyes open and only experience relaxed breathing (not any hyper breathing or ritualized or controlled breathing since that separates the aetheric body - the lungta or wind horse away from the body )
Is asking about "the difference between meaningful synchronicity as opposed to ones in my mind" a direct question?
He doesn't give a direct answer because the 'significance' of experience, which is what the question is about, is likely to be run over by left-brain judgement. I'm talking about significance as an enlivened sense of meaning, of meaningful participation, in experience, which we have trampled over because we apply explanatory filters and make judgements far too quickly. Leading to the crisis of meaning.
The art of a balanced psychological life is to hold experience lightly so that it has its own life - not to be too eager to divide and favour, promote or exclude using the left-brain filters. Those are the factors that pervert 'spiritual' experiences and either flatten and destroy them or turn them into other rigidities such as dogma and ideology. It's like a relationship that develops naturally on its own if you give it room, but too often you look for assurances so that you can double down and pursue your plans for it. But relationship is not formulaic, so if you pursue it too aggressively you will make it false and lifeless. You want something significant, but your left-brain instinct for formulaic security makes it mundane.
@@tbayley6 I'd say that he cannot give an answer, because synchronicity is, from my own experience, _always_ both highly meaningful and uncertain at the same time. That is the magic of it. I have had experiences of synchronicity that are astronomically unlikely, but while this is obviously going to strike me as very meaningful, I never dismiss the possibility that it may have been chance.
Having had very many such experiences, they always have this interesting characteristic of being both meaningful, but not in any certain/absolute sense.
That guy is very new age.
As I remember Stan Grof's wife had a kundalini experience while giving birth. Om Shantih !
I need t hese chairs!
The problem of science is the materialist paradigm. If mainstream science were to realize the Truth, namely that there is nothing but one consciousness split up into individual aspects, they would make such unfathomable leaps in scientific progress.
the history of the silly monkey is over....this is fu..ing deep man!
Psyche phenomena..
"You have seen Shiva" Swami Muktananda
If u fix that that needs fixing who fixes IT?
It's kind of funny how the interviewer constantly tries to make Grof to validate and certify his experience as spiritual, archetypal etc.😅
I thought they were quite interesting questions but he didnt really answer the questions, he just continues his own story and the interviewer is respectful. I think he asks a good question because these new methods of psychedelics and breathing can produce deep experiences so easily, it can be scary, and you have to ask, how do we integrate this.
For those commenting on the interviewer's 'me'-ness, this is EXACTLY what happens when we live in a SIMP-ified generation where healthy ego is seen as something negative. Certain cockiness, arrogance and authority is attractive in men. But Simp-generation would have you believe otherwise where interviewer is not allowed to have opinion. Man during times like this Em released another f.f.i.n. Rap God.
looks like Carl Jung BBC face to face
Good ol' Assaggioli. Boy that takes me back. Some of this has uncomfortable implications politically for the Left in regard to pro-choice in abortion.
seems to me very few people think clearly and open-mindedly about abortion...they don't think about it, don't really address the "other side's" best arguments, and don't want to talk about the facts of what abortion involves. Early abortion involves the more-or-less instant annihilation of a relatively unarticulated proto-organism by suction. But mid-to-late-term abortion involves truly horrific violence against an undeniably sentient, genetically human being. Most abortions are relatively early, but where is the line? Viability, says Roe v. Wade, but in practice, modern technology makes the point of viability earlier and earlier, and exemptions are made for the "health of the mother," broadly construed as her psychological health (IOW if she would be caused psychological distress by having the baby, then abortion is allowed, however late). Also, the gruesomeness starts to become an issue long before viability, as I think an open-minded consideration would agree to. (Look up photos of fetuses at various points in the pregnancy timeline. Look up what a saline abortion involves, or "D and C" abortion--both of which are procedures for late abortion.)
The best argument of pro-choice is the woman's right to privacy and control over her own body. The best pro-life argument is an open-eyed consideration of what actually happens in abortion, along with an acknowledgment that the fetus is, genetically speaking, a distinct organism and is not just a part of the woman's body, though it is completely dependent on it until viability. Once the fetus has a nervous system at all, there is undeniably great pain inflicted by abortion on a genetically human organism (however inchoate and dependent). Perhaps a good entryway to rational discussion would be to consider whether we should anesthetize the fetus prior to abortion, at least in the case of mid- to late-term abortion. If not, why not?
Based on these considerations, my own opinion is that we as a society should make a fairly discrete distinction between early and mid-to-late term abortion, allowing the former and severely restricting the latter. But this position is, I find, too nuanced for either pro-choice or pro-life people to endorse. Each side wants to make it a black-or-white issue, with similar stridency on each side of the debate. As a matter of social policy, I think we should put much more effort into educating and advocating for early detection of pregnancy, and early abortion over later abortion. Just my fallible opinion, though.