A very interesting perspective. Thank you for the info and the manner in which is was presented. I feel like I just learned something extremely important here.
Just wanted to say thanks Johnathan and Izotope.. I find your content very educating. There is a lot of info that is unreliable but I like the fact that I know you are always on point.
Thanku so much.. master,love from India .my mixes suffers t lack in excitement. Ur lesson helped me so much in realizing to make my mix better.. Thank u so much guru.
Technically, Mid is not what's absolutely identical: it's the sum. If I had 1K in Left and 2K in Right, they would have zero correlation, zero commonality. But those frequencies would appear in *both Mid and Side.* Mid would contain L+R and Side would contain L-R. From a production standpoint the stereo staging model is the best one to think about, especially if you're used to headphones.
I can't help but notice how the M/S term is maybe not correct for some uses. I thought that referred to a very specific dual microphone stereo recording technique. In many places I see it used to refer to Mids and Highs 'separation' through EQ in a regular stereo audio track. That confuses me a bit.
Great video as always from Mr. Wyner BUT I have to ask: why, when he's talking about levels and panning at the beginning and how having something panned in the center is louder than if being panned to one side or the other he ignores pan law settings?
Great vid, however one correction. He mentioned, during the beginning, that if you add a speaker with the same sound, you will get double the power ( I paraphrase) the physics are, if you double the surface area (adding another speaker doing the same thing) you gain exactly 3dB, not double the power. It takes 10 times the power the double the output.
Oxyplan Music Production yeah, it’s a common mis-conclusion that twice the air movement is double the volume, like the terms Sub Bass & Subsonic frequencies, when what we really mean is infrasonic bass. Subsonic frequencies literally mean slower than the the speed of sound.
newb question here. Live concert taper. Good at capturing great recordings, but still have so much to learn about mastering. Is this all assuming that the master was recorded in mid-side mode? Or is it possible to use the tools he's demonstrating on a regular 2 channel stereo recording
I think that description of mid/side glosses over the fact that in mid/side treatment of a master stereo output wrecks pans of mono recordings. There's no magical problem free m/s encoding/decoding without side-effects like this. Pans are an important part of the stereo image.There are ways around that of course, but run of the mill m/s will make this happen as a natural effect.
Isn't trying to "get that tambourine to sit back in the mix" a mix engineer's job, rather than the mastering engineer's? Mixer has access to separate tracks while you taint the whole multitrack mix by that action. Isn't the only sound solution there to return the mix with comments to the mixer? I find it quite alarming that you're trying to teach mastering, but you're actually doing mixing at the final mixdown there.
You may hate it, but you have to learn mastering on traditional music. No point on focusing on one specific genre. Especially if you use vocals in your track mate..
@@ToddBeal Hi there, I think I left out the word 'Pop'. I have been making music and learning different production styles for about twenty years. Now when mixing music on a pro basis, instruments that would have a freaquency response conflict, should be away from each other. The guiter left and keyboards right or vice versa. Now the modern pop music has been advocated by the modern Daws and their users are mostly young and inexperienced this makes them use the easy way. They'll choose a synthesizer demo song that they have on their Daws, in which all synths are stereo, all playing in the middle, make some small changes and thy have their own song. Now I'm not saying it's a bad idea from the Daw companies but there is a downside to this. You can find a proper place for the vocals if you have loud synths playing in the middle. They mask your vocals. As a solution, they just keep increasing the level of the vocals and leaving everything else behind, in the end, the mix is not Ballanced. You hear this on modern pop music all the time. Haven't you noticed that the vocals of modern pop music are too loud? I'm talking about way louder than anything else. Remember that stereo sound do not only play left an right, but also in the middle. The best method is to creat your own stereo synth that would not have any impact in the middle and then there will be a lot of space in the middle that can contain you vocals and they will be very loud without increasing their level.
If you were to direct a Hollywood movie and there are a group of Coyboys chasing an Indian on their horses, You would probably spread the cowboys so that all of them can be seen properly instead but if you put all cowboys behind the Indian, some of them are covered by the Indian. This reduces the trill of the scene and it's the same thing with panning instruments when mixing music.
@@ebaieyongernest2738 I finally found a clear explanation for Mid-Side processing. I think you would find this interesting. "Mid-Side Recording (excellent explanation)" - th-cam.com/video/mL-F9aHmFg0/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgxHma_PFhZlwoikaCp4AaABAg.8qW90Msg2-F94LtDUh34pi Commenter studio experiment: barrybrake.com/mid-side-strolling.mp3
@@ebaieyongernest2738 I forgot the link to the Commenter's actual comment: th-cam.com/video/mL-F9aHmFg0/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgxHma_PFhZlwoikaCp4AaABAg.8qW90Msg2-F94LtDUh34pi
Bruh. Your spelling and grammar are basic af. Absolutely no one cares that you know anything already. I mean seriously, why take the time out of your day to point out that you 'already knew something' in such a crude, contradictory fashion? You need to recognize that you post comments like this as an attempt to validate your audio knowledge base, but only to yourself. Why not just have quiet confidence instead of putting together such a poorly constructed sentence? Why even try to make a moot point to an audience that literally doesn't care what you think? Just wondering.
I have most of the work of me and some fellow students. The material is not rocket science, but to get direct feedback on your work from such skilled people (not to mention some of the other students) is invaluable and really saves you a lot of trial and error.
@@BillBrolse it depends....I took the course and frankly speaking...it is complex and deep. I took it as well and if you think it is not rocket science then you did not dig deep enough into the course to understanding Mastering.......very simple about 40 years put in 12 weeks.Of course unless you have been doing for 30 years+ ... which in this case most students will be at a loss or whatever they do...and last....you should not be sharing Berklee material that is not yours ......it is only for your eyes....
@@atta1798 You are right. Learning all the tools, and understand how they work isn´t rocket science. Learning how to use them to achieve what you vision - with intention and skill - is an endless journey of discoveries.
when the guys who make mastering tools don't master their videos. seriously, I had to turn up my monitors to 100% to get to moderate levels coming from another video lol
Yeah, I never understand how videos from professional audio companies / producers ignore the simple concept of post production / mastering the audio of their videos. Especially ironic from isotope who sell mastering tools
I’d been using mid/side eq on my mastering for the first time recently with great results, but had no understanding until this great explanation. Thanks. I get it now
Took me a few times to understand but I eventually took it in. Great tip about spreading hi fq info to the sides. Also nice to note that elements within the mid/mono are preceded louder so it's important to control the elements i.e. Percussion /bass and lower end of vocals within the mid. Lastly great tip that compressing elements in the mid can "move their presence" back. Really wish I could afford Ozone I love the fact that you can crossover different bands and work on a specific band/section of fq for compression, distortion, mid side, etc. thanks Jonathan and Izotope for a great video!
I literally bought analog de esser, comps and eq just to master in M/S and oh boy, was it worth it. Then you just re-compress in stereo to glue everything again and limit. It just sounds SO cool.
Thanks Jonathan, very useful info on how 2 better use Ozone! Please answer this would u? IF I RECORDED N MIXED DA WHOLE THING, WHY WOULD I EQ DA WHOLE TRACK AT MASTERING, IF I CAN SPECIFICALLY ADJUST EACH SINGLE TRACK?
And all that restoration, comes out of a really bad mixing, or a mixing guy's opinion against a mastering guy's opinion. Where the h... is the executive producer to force down his own opinion?? :D
This is some great content and presented so well that I looked up Jonathan Wyner and found out he worked with The Residents and Snakefinger, which really made me flash back to the 90s, when I used to listen to those a lot. Anyway, it's kind of hard to come across content on TH-cam that's explained so succinctly. Thanks!
Sometimes I watch youtube videos and wonder if the presenters are testing you or considering the things they're presenting in the material that they 're presenting. We're used to vocals coming from a single mic in the center or several mics in a mono type of configuration, and this sounds like it was probably recorded in stereo and Jonathan sounds as if he's coming from both sides and maybe even a little behind me, as opposed to right in front of me. Could be in my head, but seemed to go away or significantly decrease when I put my audio in mono. Thank you for the very clear breakdown of mid/side and desibilance and the likely impact of their use.!
Hello, I ask you again IZotope, is it very difficult to enable automatic subtitling in Spanish ?. I have no choice but to download the video, upload it to my channel and enable the subtitle myself. Thanks for the videos that go up
Do you switch back to stereo after mid side processing? Would the same changes carry over to stereo or does it requires to remain in mid side mode after processing?
Haha the pure disdain on his face when he says "laptop speakers"
hmar
they really are shit speakers to be honest, but the disdain was there def
I don't know how anyone can listen to music on laptop or phone speakers. It's entirely pointless IMO.
Lmao I thought this same exact thing 😂
@@abrotherinchrist what if you have nothing else to listen on?
A very interesting perspective. Thank you for the info and the manner in which is was presented. I feel like I just learned something extremely important here.
Just wanted to say thanks Johnathan and Izotope.. I find your content very educating. There is a lot of info that is unreliable but I like the fact that I know you are always on point.
Very informative and enjoyable to watch thank you
I like this guy, his explanation is nice
Thanku so much.. master,love from India .my mixes suffers t lack in excitement. Ur lesson helped me so much in realizing to make my mix better..
Thank u so much guru.
The real teacher 👨🏫
Interesting....Thank you Izotope, thank you Jonathan
so well explained!
Thanks for showing
Just awesome.
Technically, Mid is not what's absolutely identical: it's the sum. If I had 1K in Left and 2K in Right, they would have zero correlation, zero commonality. But those frequencies would appear in *both Mid and Side.* Mid would contain L+R and Side would contain L-R. From a production standpoint the stereo staging model is the best one to think about, especially if you're used to headphones.
I can't help but notice how the M/S term is maybe not correct for some uses. I thought that referred to a very specific dual microphone stereo recording technique.
In many places I see it used to refer to Mids and Highs 'separation' through EQ in a regular stereo audio track. That confuses me a bit.
this guy has sage knowledge on audio minutia
Nice.
Great video as always from Mr. Wyner BUT I have to ask: why, when he's talking about levels and panning at the beginning and how having something panned in the center is louder than if being panned to one side or the other he ignores pan law settings?
Great vid, however one correction. He mentioned, during the beginning, that if you add a speaker with the same sound, you will get double the power ( I paraphrase) the physics are, if you double the surface area (adding another speaker doing the same thing) you gain exactly 3dB, not double the power. It takes 10 times the power the double the output.
lol it bothered me too
Oxyplan Music Production yeah, it’s a common mis-conclusion that twice the air movement is double the volume, like the terms Sub Bass & Subsonic frequencies, when what we really mean is infrasonic bass. Subsonic frequencies literally mean slower than the the speed of sound.
Great sir
Mehn!! Thank you so much for this.. it really helped.
Sweet!
Спасибо!очень полезное видео!
How did he focus in the EQ only on a band of the spectrum?
musicdoge hold 'alt' and hold left click
newb question here. Live concert taper. Good at capturing great recordings, but still have so much to learn about mastering. Is this all assuming that the master was recorded in mid-side mode? Or is it possible to use the tools he's demonstrating on a regular 2 channel stereo recording
I think that description of mid/side glosses over the fact that in mid/side treatment of a master stereo output wrecks pans of mono recordings. There's no magical problem free m/s encoding/decoding without side-effects like this.
Pans are an important part of the stereo image.There are ways around that of course, but run of the mill m/s will make this happen as a natural effect.
1:40 the music production community in a nutshell
me dá uma licença de presente rsrs :) abraços aqui do brazil.
Isn't trying to "get that tambourine to sit back in the mix" a mix engineer's job, rather than the mastering engineer's? Mixer has access to separate tracks while you taint the whole multitrack mix by that action. Isn't the only sound solution there to return the mix with comments to the mixer? I find it quite alarming that you're trying to teach mastering, but you're actually doing mixing at the final mixdown there.
checkout my asshole and then my soundcloud (jetzt denkne die leujte ich kann keine engisch)I (snychurhzantion=
hate that type of music
You may hate it, but you have to learn mastering on traditional music. No point on focusing on one specific genre. Especially if you use vocals in your track mate..
You must hating making money as an engineer. Keep an open mind. It'll take you farther than being pretentious
HARDEY LEONE I'm a sucker for that/this stuff too and it makes me ashamed of myself.
Modern music is mainly big mono. Everything playing right is also playing left. Terrible!
How so? Please elaborate.
@@ToddBeal Hi there, I think I left out the word 'Pop'. I have been making music and learning different production styles for about twenty years. Now when mixing music on a pro basis, instruments that would have a freaquency response conflict, should be away from each other. The guiter left and keyboards right or vice versa. Now the modern pop music has been advocated by the modern Daws and their users are mostly young and inexperienced this makes them use the easy way. They'll choose a synthesizer demo song that they have on their Daws, in which all synths are stereo, all playing in the middle, make some small changes and thy have their own song. Now I'm not saying it's a bad idea from the Daw companies but there is a downside to this. You can find a proper place for the vocals if you have loud synths playing in the middle. They mask your vocals. As a solution, they just keep increasing the level of the vocals and leaving everything else behind, in the end, the mix is not Ballanced. You hear this on modern pop music all the time. Haven't you noticed that the vocals of modern pop music are too loud? I'm talking about way louder than anything else. Remember that stereo sound do not only play left an right, but also in the middle. The best method is to creat your own stereo synth that would not have any impact in the middle and then there will be a lot of space in the middle that can contain you vocals and they will be very loud without increasing their level.
If you were to direct a Hollywood movie and there are a group of Coyboys chasing an Indian on their horses, You would probably spread the cowboys so that all of them can be seen properly instead but if you put all cowboys behind the Indian, some of them are covered by the Indian. This reduces the trill of the scene and it's the same thing with panning instruments when mixing music.
@@ebaieyongernest2738 I finally found a clear explanation for Mid-Side processing. I think you would find this interesting.
"Mid-Side Recording (excellent explanation)"
- th-cam.com/video/mL-F9aHmFg0/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgxHma_PFhZlwoikaCp4AaABAg.8qW90Msg2-F94LtDUh34pi
Commenter studio experiment: barrybrake.com/mid-side-strolling.mp3
@@ebaieyongernest2738 I forgot the link to the Commenter's actual comment: th-cam.com/video/mL-F9aHmFg0/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgxHma_PFhZlwoikaCp4AaABAg.8qW90Msg2-F94LtDUh34pi
wAS wanting to learn. thsi shit is basic af
Bruh. Your spelling and grammar are basic af. Absolutely no one cares that you know anything already. I mean seriously, why take the time out of your day to point out that you 'already knew something' in such a crude, contradictory fashion? You need to recognize that you post comments like this as an attempt to validate your audio knowledge base, but only to yourself. Why not just have quiet confidence instead of putting together such a poorly constructed sentence? Why even try to make a moot point to an audience that literally doesn't care what you think? Just wondering.
Whoa, that 0.6dB mid raise in the vocals was extremely impactful.
He was one of the teachers at a 12 week online mastering course at Berklee. One of the best classes I ever attended.
lol..dang you got any course material still???
I have most of the work of me and some fellow students. The material is not rocket science, but to get direct feedback on your work from such skilled people (not to mention some of the other students) is invaluable and really saves you a lot of trial and error.
Can you post the link for his online class? I'm very interested in checking it out! Thanks!
@@BillBrolse it depends....I took the course and frankly speaking...it is complex and deep. I took it as well and if you think it is not rocket science then you did not dig deep enough into the course to understanding Mastering.......very simple about 40 years put in 12 weeks.Of course unless you have been doing for 30 years+ ... which in this case most students will be at a loss or whatever they do...and last....you should not be sharing Berklee material that is not yours ......it is only for your eyes....
@@atta1798 You are right. Learning all the tools, and understand how they work isn´t rocket science. Learning how to use them to achieve what you vision - with intention and skill - is an endless journey of discoveries.
"I'll park the threshold wherever I want" - Jonathan Wyner
when the guys who make mastering tools don't master their videos. seriously, I had to turn up my monitors to 100% to get to moderate levels coming from another video lol
Yeah, I never understand how videos from professional audio companies / producers ignore the simple concept of post production / mastering the audio of their videos. Especially ironic from isotope who sell mastering tools
Are you (iZotope) listening? 😂
lmao real shit
20 seconds in i'm just scrolling looking for this comment. ty haha
The worst is the discrepancy in volume of his voice and song
Great video. Great teaching. I know why he's Education Director.
I’d been using mid/side eq on my mastering for the first time recently with great results, but had no understanding until this great explanation. Thanks. I get it now
Top notch presentation by a top notch presenter. Thank you for posting this.
You need to master the sound of this video sir.. the sound not meets the default of standard dB limiter.. ☺️
Took me a few times to understand but I eventually took it in. Great tip about spreading hi fq info to the sides. Also nice to note that elements within the mid/mono are preceded louder so it's important to control the elements i.e. Percussion /bass and lower end of vocals within the mid. Lastly great tip that compressing elements in the mid can "move their presence" back. Really wish I could afford Ozone I love the fact that you can crossover different bands and work on a specific band/section of fq for compression, distortion, mid side, etc. thanks Jonathan and Izotope for a great video!
most realxing education video =)
Party in the USA anyone?
Thank you, really useful video, very clearly and concisely explained.
I literally bought analog de esser, comps and eq just to master in M/S and oh boy, was it worth it.
Then you just re-compress in stereo to glue everything again and limit. It just sounds SO cool.
Thanks Jonathan, very useful info on how 2 better use Ozone! Please answer this would u? IF I RECORDED N MIXED DA WHOLE THING, WHY WOULD I EQ DA WHOLE TRACK AT MASTERING, IF I CAN SPECIFICALLY ADJUST EACH SINGLE TRACK?
Wow. I think your video is going to save me on a mastering project that I have been struggling with. I just subscribed. Fantastic videk.
And all that restoration, comes out of a really bad mixing, or a mixing guy's opinion against a mastering guy's opinion.
Where the h... is the executive producer to force down his own opinion?? :D
Kind of ironic that a video made by the leading audio cleanup plugin manufacturer has such noisy audio on the speaker's mic lol
wow this information just changed my mixes.
I'm watching greatness.....wow!
actually now listening to music in the car is probably the most common way to listen to music
This is some great content and presented so well that I looked up Jonathan Wyner and found out he worked with The Residents and Snakefinger, which really made me flash back to the 90s, when I used to listen to those a lot.
Anyway, it's kind of hard to come across content on TH-cam that's explained so succinctly. Thanks!
Michael I was just thinking about chewing hides the sound the other day!
that's why you should always sit on the other side of the car for the best experience
Brief and detailed coverage of the fundamental things to watch out for when it comes to Mid/Side treatment!
Sometimes I watch youtube videos and wonder if the presenters are testing you or considering the things they're presenting in the material that they 're presenting. We're used to vocals coming from a single mic in the center or several mics in a mono type of configuration, and this sounds like it was probably recorded in stereo and Jonathan sounds as if he's coming from both sides and maybe even a little behind me, as opposed to right in front of me. Could be in my head, but seemed to go away or significantly decrease when I put my audio in mono.
Thank you for the very clear breakdown of mid/side and desibilance and the likely impact of their use.!
Wow, great content! A learn a few important things. Thanks
[from the back seats] Louder!)))
"Make sure this sounds good on a speaker about as big around as the tip of your pinkie." The horror... the horror.
No discussion of side processing in phase correction.
Thank you sir, you are the "Mr. Rogers" of mastering.
Thank you!
Love the mono de-essing ... Sounds really good to me
Jon literally looks like a mad genius scientist. ;)
Awesome, thank you. 🙏
Thanks. That was great information.
thanks very much
Damn that's a low volume
Disappointed that you didn't address using Mid/Side in the Imager
Very good, nice video and professional.
The mid part isn't just the MONO part of the audio. It is also the stereo part of the signal that is identical on both sides. Is that correct?
There is no mono track. Other than that you are correct.
yes
umetisha dingi
Great tute, keep em comin'! :)
Which izotope plugin were you using???
I want to buy that.
ozone
Hello, I ask you again IZotope, is it very difficult to enable automatic subtitling in Spanish ?. I have no choice but to download the video, upload it to my channel and enable the subtitle myself. Thanks for the videos that go up
What a wonderful n worthful tutorial sir. Thanks n God bless u sir
what an amazing teacher!
Amazing
+1
I
people should understand laptop speakers are wrong way to listen any music :(
Mr Wayner ur a magician! Tambourine trick blew my mind (I didn't get it though but I could hear it) Amazing!
Awesome as usual. Thanks Jonathan
Do you switch back to stereo after mid side processing? Would the same changes carry over to stereo or does it requires to remain in mid side mode after processing?
LEGO
Maybe they should invent mid/side headphones for the ear in the center of your forehead.
Starts at 4:15
Been using this technique more and more - great information!
Wow what an informative video sir hats off to you 🙏👏🎩😍
Thanks for the info - this was a big help.
great video!
What a gentleman, beautiful presentation and great advice.
Really helpful tip to me. Many thanks!
Awesome lesson. Thank you very much.
Mid, side, top and bottom. But does it sound good?!
I could listen to Jonathan Wyner talk all day ...
All these tutorials from Izotope are gold! Love them
He explained this very clearly.
Helpful video thank you!
Good educator & also good man.
all his tutorials are great
The demo track just killed me...
oh damn! jajaja. this guy is a G