I'm seeing many lightbulbs going off in the comments in this RW series and wanted to share my thoughts with the community. I am not a person that is easily persuaded by detail marketing claims or processes or methodologies of detailing. One needs to take a stance of “skepticism” as many initially believe what an YT influencer or manufacturers says without any rational thought and that's the narrative, they sell products on and one will/would believe moving forward and will ultimately defend it without asking any questions. The best way to approach something in car detailing is to just ask questions for yourself - make your question’s list for ANY detailing process or chemical product. Find what actually works for YOU and why? Here is a sample of questions for a RW chemical product and washing contact process that I developed for myself: - Is rinseless washing truly safer than a traditional contact wash? - Is proper rinseless washing actually quicker than a traditional wash? - Can a RW be used for all types of grime accumulation on a vehicle like a traditional contact wash? - Is modern RW methodology or process better now or when it was first developed as now some say to pre-rinse or soak with a RW before you do a RW wash or even rinse after the RW contact wash, why was the narrative changed? - Like all things does RW have limitations and what are they? - Does the 256:1 ratio standardized narrative actually work for ALL RW formulations as no two formulations are the same nor use the same cleaning agents, chemicals or formulations? - Has anybody actually tested what is the best dilution ratio to use for a given RW product? - Does the choice of different wash media work better with a given RW chemical formulation or ratios than others (best pairing)? - Why believe you should only use a sponge with every RW formulated product? - Clearcoat gets scratched from the detailing process by more “contact” and surface resistance on the vehicle clearcoat from the wash media, type of media selected, the chemicals selected, and the drying process selected (towel dry or blow dry) - which washing process has the least amount clearcoat contact on clearcoat over time traditional wash or RW’ing? - Traditional contact wash, rinse, blow dry off versus towel dry in RW process - which will scratch the vehicle less over time? - What wash media or RW multiple media process by design has the least probability to scratch clearcoat in a RW process? - Why is a twist loop towel the best drying towel for the RW process? Does the height of the twist loop pile matter as twist loop pile can be aggressive on the clearcoat surface based upon the applied pressure downwards, least surface resistance when a drying towel is a little wet and was that why drying aids were developed? - Does a surfactant type by classification leave less surfactant residue on the surface after drying in a RW process? - Does a RW containing surfactants leave behind surfactant residue after drying the surface without rinsing? - Do the chemicals chosen in the RW formulation scratch the surface because the chemical(s) chosen in the formulation? - Am I reviewing SDS sheets before purchasing a product and reaching out to the manufacturers with my questions on the product before using them on vehicles? Granted, the list can go on and on or get “crazy” but it’s illustrating a point here, that being - are you thinking like this (you should be as chemicals are dangerous) or just simply believing what someone, albeit who they are, says? That’s what I do, I test my questions and post review videos at the attempt to validate or “try to validate” the product marketing claims, process and methodology claims in the detail industry the best I can, with the resources available to me and the knowledge I possess and the contacts I have in the detail industry. I pose only illustrations of my findings to my community. I’m a sample of one, not perfect, have my own opinions and testing my “question lists” so I can choose for myself the best possible process and detailing products for my applications in car detailing. How about you?
Thanks again for doing this. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the RW series. I started RW my cars in 2018 but I eventually went back to traditional washing after using ONR, Uber, Duraglos, Ultima, N914 as no matter what I did, sponge, multiple towels I saw marring after a while. I know every time you wash you scratch your car but the traditional wash has been less scratch inducing to my car. This last 6 months went back to rinseless seeing all these new players and after DIY, Gyeon and my old Ultima WW plus, DIY created the most marring. I'm hopeful to find one that is safer as I really enjoy rinseless washing. So far from your tests looks like Hero and RRW are the safest. Keep at it. Thanks again. And keep the acrylic panel testing. It's very quickly telling what's what.
Thank you for sharing your real world experiences. You are correct, a soap contact wash is the safest way to wash a vechile. Why? Two parts, a rinse step is involved in neutralizing the soap chemicals and the amount of "lubrication" in a soap wash is so great a RW chemical product can't even come close. The soap contact wash, rinse and a blow dry method has had the "least amount" of marring or scratches overtime in a side by side comparison against a vehicle that only had RW'ing out to one year. RW'ing has its place but won't replace a soap contact wash.
I get that you're trying to control variables, but I don't think that plexiglass is a suitable substrate for evaluating marring. I have never had visible marring like that when using Absolute as designed on paint. I would suggest using a corrected factory GM black panel as a more realistic test bed.
I can see how one would be confused about plexiglass as a testing media. What is plexiglass? Truth be told, RW'ing is a "contact wash" and a "contact dry without a neutralization chemical rinse" - the whole RW methodology as marketed has LOTS of media contact on the vechicle, at least 2 different types of mediums, are used on a vechicle at a given wash cycle time. "ALL contact washes" can/will either or both mar or scratch a vechicle's clearcoat, (clearcoat can be scratched by pencil lead; its NOT some hardened surface coating or a magical surface coating that can't be scratched nor marred; its a plastic film. Remember we are talking about "mil layers" (SUPER thin layer of plastic film) of a polyurethane or a acrylic polyurethane resin mixed film over paint and primer thats on a metal substrate, nothing more than that. ... Plexiglass is a ploy-acrylic resin and to be technical its a poly (methyl methacrylate - PMMA substrate coated with polyethylene plastic film - 95% similiar or same to any vechilce's cleacoat plastic film. Clearcoat and plexiglass has the SAME transparent polyethylene plastic film applied on top of the given substrate either paint or acrylic substrate. For simplicity, if it mars or scratches plexiglass it will be the same likelihood for clearcoat. Rw'ing is dependent upon the chosen wash media used along with chemical dilution ratio used, and if both are paired incorrectly, lots of marring or scratching can and does occur. Over time as marring or scratching builds up you will see it "more readily" in sunlight or any artifical light source. My testing is determining what is the best RW dilution and the best given media "paired together" as we have taken for granted to use a sponge and a 256:1 ratio for all RW chemical products. As you will see, that's not holding true. In my next RW review, I will show pictures of using a 100x microscope on clearcoat about how RW'ing with a chosen media mars and scratched cleacoat. RW contact wash and a soap contact wash - both have a high tendency/ probability to mar or scratch especially with poor detailing techniques.
@@DetailProjects As someone that's worked with both Acrylics/Plexiglass/plastics and automotive finishes I can tell you they are both very far apart. While a clear coat is a form of plastic in essence. its what is done with the material that makes it so much more different then any Acrylic/plexiglass. There are UV inhibitors, There are durability enhancers and more. Plexiglass you look at it wrong from 10 ft away and its marred, hazed scratched and damaged. Thats why all new plexiglass comes with a layered protective film to protect it in shipping and storage or even in installation. Relate Plexiglass more like the Piano black plastics used in some car interiors. You can scratch the living dog snot out of it with ease where as clear coats have much more durability and resistance. Its NOT an apples to apples comparison. If your going to make a real true test it needs to be with the actual surface as suggested that's been corrected to a high quality finish. And Plexi also has zero Uv protection. Ive seen plexi that exposed to Uv light develops hazing and micro fracturing that form inside the plastic itself. There is a big difference between Urethane aka clear coat that has the support under it of primer and base coats vs acrylic aka plexiglass. Plexiglass also is terrible with any heat contraction and expansion. an automotive finish is able to swell during a hot day and expand. then contract under the cold freezing conditions. Something that Plexi does not do well either. What you need to use is actual cured automotive painted surfaces. and to even validate the test further all of them need to be corrected and of different levels of hardness. some automotive paints are softer some harder. we all know softer paints mar easier then harder ones. AND no one cares what it looks like with a microscope as its an irrelevant test. NO ONE sees with their bare eyes at that level. ITS FACT. everyone that is experienced should understand ANY contact to your vehicle will induce scratches, swirls, maring. these are at various levels. Some take much longer time to be enough to be very visible. Weather you are using Foam and soap to wash a car or Rinse less (correctly btw) BOTH will induce scratches that show over time. You have the choice of either NEVER washing your car (even contactless doesn't help as road films and other things will still attack the paint and be stuck, it takes a contact wash to get it all clean. )Not washing your car has ill effects as well. Its how clear coats fail due to contaminates that eat into the paint, oxidation layers and more. OR you can wash it, create swirls and maring, polish them up and carry on with cleaning and protecting. Nothing lasts forever. but with proper care we can make it last much longer. one of the key points is what we see. With the bare eyes what we see when doing contact washes isnt instantly impactful. If you are doing things correctly. a rinsless wont do any more harm\m then a soap wash.
Thanks for the review! From the ones you tested, which is the one you d go back to for your car? I currently use Hero. I like the honesty in your reviews.
was looking forward to seeing a polymer wash. would you be able to link to where we could buy the test panels for those of us who may want to analyze our current processes
@DetailProjects absolute seems to marring more than other RW whatever the dilution or media use no ? in general you consider that a soap makes fewer marks where you prefer not to say generalities and to say that it depends on each factor. I wonder if drying in rinseless mode is safer than drying with just the water left over from the soap wash. thank you for your work it’s very informative
I'm seeing many lightbulbs going off in the comments in this RW series and wanted to share my thoughts with the community.
I am not a person that is easily persuaded by detail marketing claims or processes or methodologies of detailing. One needs to take a stance of “skepticism” as many initially believe what an YT influencer or manufacturers says without any rational thought and that's the narrative, they sell products on and one will/would believe moving forward and will ultimately defend it without asking any questions.
The best way to approach something in car detailing is to just ask questions for yourself - make your question’s list for ANY detailing process or chemical product. Find what actually works for YOU and why?
Here is a sample of questions for a RW chemical product and washing contact process that I developed for myself:
- Is rinseless washing truly safer than a traditional contact wash?
- Is proper rinseless washing actually quicker than a traditional wash?
- Can a RW be used for all types of grime accumulation on a vehicle like a traditional contact wash?
- Is modern RW methodology or process better now or when it was first developed as now some say to pre-rinse or soak with a RW before you do a RW wash or even rinse after the RW contact wash, why was the narrative changed?
- Like all things does RW have limitations and what are they?
- Does the 256:1 ratio standardized narrative actually work for ALL RW formulations as no two formulations are the same nor use the same cleaning agents, chemicals or formulations?
- Has anybody actually tested what is the best dilution ratio to use for a given RW product?
- Does the choice of different wash media work better with a given RW chemical formulation or ratios than others (best pairing)?
- Why believe you should only use a sponge with every RW formulated product?
- Clearcoat gets scratched from the detailing process by more “contact” and surface resistance on the vehicle clearcoat from the wash media, type of media selected, the chemicals selected, and the drying process selected (towel dry or blow dry) - which washing process has the least amount clearcoat contact on clearcoat over time traditional wash or RW’ing?
- Traditional contact wash, rinse, blow dry off versus towel dry in RW process - which will scratch the vehicle less over time?
- What wash media or RW multiple media process by design has the least probability to scratch clearcoat in a RW process?
- Why is a twist loop towel the best drying towel for the RW process? Does the height of the twist loop pile matter as twist loop pile can be aggressive on the clearcoat surface based upon the applied pressure downwards, least surface resistance when a drying towel is a little wet and was that why drying aids were developed?
- Does a surfactant type by classification leave less surfactant residue on the surface after drying in a RW process?
- Does a RW containing surfactants leave behind surfactant residue after drying the surface without rinsing?
- Do the chemicals chosen in the RW formulation scratch the surface because the chemical(s) chosen in the formulation?
- Am I reviewing SDS sheets before purchasing a product and reaching out to the manufacturers with my questions on the product before using them on vehicles?
Granted, the list can go on and on or get “crazy” but it’s illustrating a point here, that being - are you thinking like this (you should be as chemicals are dangerous) or just simply believing what someone, albeit who they are, says?
That’s what I do, I test my questions and post review videos at the attempt to validate or “try to validate” the product marketing claims, process and methodology claims in the detail industry the best I can, with the resources available to me and the knowledge I possess and the contacts I have in the detail industry.
I pose only illustrations of my findings to my community. I’m a sample of one, not perfect, have my own opinions and testing my “question lists” so I can choose for myself the best possible process and detailing products for my applications in car detailing.
How about you?
The best testing series so far! Keep up the great work.
Thanks again for doing this. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the RW series. I started RW my cars in 2018 but I eventually went back to traditional washing after using ONR, Uber, Duraglos, Ultima, N914 as no matter what I did, sponge, multiple towels I saw marring after a while. I know every time you wash you scratch your car but the traditional wash has been less scratch inducing to my car. This last 6 months went back to rinseless seeing all these new players and after DIY, Gyeon and my old Ultima WW plus, DIY created the most marring. I'm hopeful to find one that is safer as I really enjoy rinseless washing. So far from your tests looks like Hero and RRW are the safest. Keep at it. Thanks again. And keep the acrylic panel testing. It's very quickly telling what's what.
Thank you for sharing your real world experiences.
You are correct, a soap contact wash is the safest way to wash a vechile. Why? Two parts, a rinse step is involved in neutralizing the soap chemicals and the amount of "lubrication" in a soap wash is so great a RW chemical product can't even come close. The soap contact wash, rinse and a blow dry method has had the "least amount" of marring or scratches overtime in a side by side comparison against a vehicle that only had RW'ing out to one year.
RW'ing has its place but won't replace a soap contact wash.
@@DetailProjectsplease make the same tests for traditional soap as a baseline. I’m curious to see the results using the same testing methods.
I get that you're trying to control variables, but I don't think that plexiglass is a suitable substrate for evaluating marring. I have never had visible marring like that when using Absolute as designed on paint.
I would suggest using a corrected factory GM black panel as a more realistic test bed.
I can see how one would be confused about plexiglass as a testing media. What is plexiglass?
Truth be told, RW'ing is a "contact wash" and a "contact dry without a neutralization chemical rinse" - the whole RW methodology as marketed has LOTS of media contact on the vechicle, at least 2 different types of mediums, are used on a vechicle at a given wash cycle time.
"ALL contact washes" can/will either or both mar or scratch a vechicle's clearcoat, (clearcoat can be scratched by pencil lead; its NOT some hardened surface coating or a magical surface coating that can't be scratched nor marred; its a plastic film. Remember we are talking about "mil layers" (SUPER thin layer of plastic film) of a polyurethane or a acrylic polyurethane resin mixed film over paint and primer thats on a metal substrate, nothing more than that. ...
Plexiglass is a ploy-acrylic resin and to be technical its a poly (methyl methacrylate - PMMA substrate coated with polyethylene plastic film - 95% similiar or same to any vechilce's cleacoat plastic film. Clearcoat and plexiglass has the SAME transparent polyethylene plastic film applied on top of the given substrate either paint or acrylic substrate. For simplicity, if it mars or scratches plexiglass it will be the same likelihood for clearcoat.
Rw'ing is dependent upon the chosen wash media used along with chemical dilution ratio used, and if both are paired incorrectly, lots of marring or scratching can and does occur. Over time as marring or scratching builds up you will see it "more readily" in sunlight or any artifical light source.
My testing is determining what is the best RW dilution and the best given media "paired together" as we have taken for granted to use a sponge and a 256:1 ratio for all RW chemical products. As you will see, that's not holding true.
In my next RW review, I will show pictures of using a 100x microscope on clearcoat about how RW'ing with a chosen media mars and scratched cleacoat.
RW contact wash and a soap contact wash - both have a high tendency/ probability to mar or scratch especially with poor detailing techniques.
Great stuff! Could you make a video on how to properly wash?
@@DetailProjects As someone that's worked with both Acrylics/Plexiglass/plastics and automotive finishes I can tell you they are both very far apart. While a clear coat is a form of plastic in essence. its what is done with the material that makes it so much more different then any Acrylic/plexiglass. There are UV inhibitors, There are durability enhancers and more. Plexiglass you look at it wrong from 10 ft away and its marred, hazed scratched and damaged. Thats why all new plexiglass comes with a layered protective film to protect it in shipping and storage or even in installation. Relate Plexiglass more like the Piano black plastics used in some car interiors. You can scratch the living dog snot out of it with ease where as clear coats have much more durability and resistance. Its NOT an apples to apples comparison. If your going to make a real true test it needs to be with the actual surface as suggested that's been corrected to a high quality finish. And Plexi also has zero Uv protection. Ive seen plexi that exposed to Uv light develops hazing and micro fracturing that form inside the plastic itself. There is a big difference between Urethane aka clear coat that has the support under it of primer and base coats vs acrylic aka plexiglass. Plexiglass also is terrible with any heat contraction and expansion. an automotive finish is able to swell during a hot day and expand. then contract under the cold freezing conditions. Something that Plexi does not do well either. What you need to use is actual cured automotive painted surfaces. and to even validate the test further all of them need to be corrected and of different levels of hardness. some automotive paints are softer some harder. we all know softer paints mar easier then harder ones. AND no one cares what it looks like with a microscope as its an irrelevant test. NO ONE sees with their bare eyes at that level. ITS FACT. everyone that is experienced should understand ANY contact to your vehicle will induce scratches, swirls, maring. these are at various levels. Some take much longer time to be enough to be very visible. Weather you are using Foam and soap to wash a car or Rinse less (correctly btw) BOTH will induce scratches that show over time. You have the choice of either NEVER washing your car (even contactless doesn't help as road films and other things will still attack the paint and be stuck, it takes a contact wash to get it all clean. )Not washing your car has ill effects as well. Its how clear coats fail due to contaminates that eat into the paint, oxidation layers and more. OR you can wash it, create swirls and maring, polish them up and carry on with cleaning and protecting. Nothing lasts forever. but with proper care we can make it last much longer. one of the key points is what we see. With the bare eyes what we see when doing contact washes isnt instantly impactful. If you are doing things correctly. a rinsless wont do any more harm\m then a soap wash.
Shattering my opinions about rinseless wash products one brand at a time! ;)
Thanks again for your dedication :)
Thanks so much for all of the detailed information very helpful. Best series I've seen very informative
Great video, literally the best i've seen. thanks!
Thanks for the review! From the ones you tested, which is the one you d go back to for your car? I currently use Hero. I like the honesty in your reviews.
Love your videos! Cant wait for ONR V5
Great testing! The only thing I would recommend is pre- spray the panel before wash media. It other than that great testing!
Can’t wait to see your thoughts on ONR and 914.
Absolute stained my trim everytime I washed. This makes sense lol
was looking forward to seeing a polymer wash. would you be able to link to where we could buy the test panels for those of us who may want to analyze our current processes
Have you tried this with car shampoo? Curious how much the results would differ. I know we will it’s safer, but has it been tested in this scenario?
@DetailProjects absolute seems to marring more than other RW whatever the dilution or media use no ?
in general you consider that a soap makes fewer marks where you prefer not to say generalities and to say that it depends on each factor.
I wonder if drying in rinseless mode is safer than drying with just the water left over from the soap wash.
thank you for your work it’s very informative
You should definitely do onr next. The og. Also feynlab v3 and n-914 would be nice.
You do some great test
Most rinseless is not for heavily soiled panels. For a stronger bite get Feynlab Pure Rinseless
Cant wait for the result of the rinseless that causes the least amount of scratching!
👏👏