Do you see why this play isn't all that believable? People generally are not expecting you to check call a wet board with very strong hands so the value range you're represnting is pretty thin compared to the number of combo draws on a board like this.
I thought caller played it great and Bart is giving the average 2/5 player way to much hand reading credit. I know I fold Aces or kings in UTG spot, then I'm left with LoJack who either has one pair, which he'll probably fold, or a big draw, which he could either fold or call with and I'm ahead of. Well played from caller IMHO
I think the issue was more so that Bart was giving the 2/5 player not enough credit to fold an overpair or AQ KQif that's what he got here with. The point is that if Villain is a winning player he's probably assuming Hero isn't ripping it here with a draw or one pair. Against the average 1/2 2/5 player this probably would get snapped off with AA and KK and that would stear the hero towards a more clear fold. His other point was that with the pot odds a really good Villain would notice Hero's weak flop play and call down. The caller was right tho: if the hero was behind, the Villain was good enough to fold, but not good enough to semi-hero call with one strong pair. Anyway no shade I was just intrested to engage with the topic. Meow.
Should the hero be squeezing preflop with pocket 10s or pocket 8s preflop, or should he just complete? Should hands like J-9, Q-10, Q-8, 10-8, pocket 10s, or pocket 8s really be check-raising the flop 100% of the time?
@@pot_kivach160 If you're check-raising all of the strong hands on the flop, what strong hands can you have on the turn if you just call the flop? Does that mean that you should either raise or fold your entire range on the flop? I don't like the idea of capping your range by check raising the flop 100% of the time with so many value hands. It seems to me that some of those strong hands should just call the flop and then check-raise a brick turn.
@gabrielrockman well,#1) it's a dangerous board! And #2) multiway pot! Turn card might not be a brick. Then what? Start screaming. B/c you just shot yourself in the foot! 🤣 Point 1. You x/r flop 100% of time in this particular scenario only. Point 2. Going greedy always backfire!
@@pot_kivach160 If you're check-raising with 100% of your value hands on the flop, then you should be check raising or folding all of your hands on the flop and never just over calling.
I've ripped it on a hand like this on the turn, but in the cases I ripped it, I had bottom or middle set. I ripped it to put max pressure on the draws and because there are a lot of cards I'm not going to like on the river. However, I'm never bluffing when I rip it here.
Im folding it pre . Cause its a troublesome hand unless it is like AsKs4s or idk 6x6xQx or i guess 2x6x6x. It is all but trouble postflop especially being OOP to everyone. Once we get on the flop we have snap fold on flop . We only hoping for running 6 and 6 and still might be dead or i guess spade spade which we still have potential reverse-implied odds. We asking for trouble at all streets but somehow it worked. By reraising turn we mostly representing J9d and Q3suited of some sort i guess
I think you want to go small on turn and if you don't get raised off, you basically know villain is capped and if we miss the river, jam and out qq, jj even kk that flatted pre, 77, 88 all in a tough spot. The most profitable bluffs are when villain calls flop and turn and folds river.
Hero can rep a flopped monster with a check-raise on the turn, even if he wouldn't actually play it that way. As long as there are people who would play it like that, and the villains don't know whether you're one of them, you can get away with it. They'll throw away a ton of beter hands against this play. I think it's brilliant.
Yeah I don’t disagree with Bart that when you think it through, hero’s line looks a bit suspect… But in the moment if I were UTG I’d be very worried about sets or J9. Just because I wouldn’t play then that way and you probably shouldn’t play them that way doesn’t mean people don’t.
if LJ is capped for BB, then he is capped for UTG, too. Beside: Is the UTG capped?? (this is not a question). What's the BB cap by checking flop and checking the turn on a dangerous board (facing double flush draw against 2 opponents!!). So: ""ripping it off"" action is totally inconsistent to all previous actions, and must not be taken seriously! (Big bark of a small dog!). That was a suicidal action (AA/KK/AQ or better are not folding here)...that somehow turned unsuccessful. lol The Double check while OOP and the rip-it-off into two opponents, screams a stack suicide. And must be called. You must help your opponent to execute his stack suicide! Otherwise, you must consider yourself a dissident!
Fold pre. But I love hero's x/j on the turn (assuming you know he's capable of laying down over pairs). That's only play in this spot. You would rather call QJ/sets/QT before KQ, AQ and the overpairs. Obviously, you have to call some Aces/Kings w/o a spade or Diamond but at a lesser frequency because of the multi-way nature of the pot.
Literally this. Wrt pre why do people go "lol look at the odds" yes because you are up against all of those people and OOP. Just fold crap pre. On the turn C/R gets a shit ton of folds. People think C/C flop, C/R turn is a monster. So some better hands will fold while big draws (that you're ahead of!) will call. Not C/R here us criminal imo
I actually like this play. We should be the only one with all combos of two pair and J9 and there are way more combos of AA and KK in UTG range. It looks super crazy strong into two players in a 4 way pre configuration and we have equity if called.
"Let's see how outta line you get " you know exactly how the hand goes 😂😂😂 Big fan of your hand breakdowns, Bart, but I'm absolutely not a fan of your nostradamus like predictions when you literally get emailed the hand and know exactly how it unfolds. Enough with the hollywooding ffs😂
how to put yourself in trouble? 1) do not resist when others put you there 2) if just no one tries to put you in troubles, then you MUST do it by yourself! enter flop at all cost...even if it takes a very speculative hand. Once on flop, what a relief! This, that's already access on the way to trouble. Of course call flop bet...even if it's crap kicker, no draw, just a top pair...and against multi opponents. The more opponents, the better! The Trouble is almost guaranteed this way. Then, on turn when you pick up mini equity...rip it off! Right into 2 opponents!! Cuz, if you just call turn bet, and made it on river somehow, then by then all your troubles might be slipping away! Damn!
Do you see why this play isn't all that believable? People generally are not expecting you to check call a wet board with very strong hands so the value range you're represnting is pretty thin compared to the number of combo draws on a board like this.
Bart: live chat is saying rip it *😬* I wouldn’t do that , what are you getting to fold ?
…so whatd you do ?
Hero: …..SO i ripped it
😂
and then everyone folds.
I thought caller played it great and Bart is giving the average 2/5 player way to much hand reading credit. I know I fold Aces or kings in UTG spot, then I'm left with LoJack who either has one pair, which he'll probably fold, or a big draw, which he could either fold or call with and I'm ahead of. Well played from caller IMHO
I think the issue was more so that Bart was giving the 2/5 player not enough credit to fold an overpair or AQ KQif that's what he got here with. The point is that if Villain is a winning player he's probably assuming Hero isn't ripping it here with a draw or one pair. Against the average 1/2 2/5 player this probably would get snapped off with AA and KK and that would stear the hero towards a more clear fold. His other point was that with the pot odds a really good Villain would notice Hero's weak flop play and call down. The caller was right tho: if the hero was behind, the Villain was good enough to fold, but not good enough to semi-hero call with one strong pair. Anyway no shade I was just intrested to engage with the topic.
Meow.
The villain was a 5/10 player, like me and Im snap calling with QQ AA AQ QJs and KK there.
Should the hero be squeezing preflop with pocket 10s or pocket 8s preflop, or should he just complete? Should hands like J-9, Q-10, Q-8, 10-8, pocket 10s, or pocket 8s really be check-raising the flop 100% of the time?
first question: No. (this is 2/5). Second Q: yes! That's why turn x/jam screams weak/drawing hand.
@@pot_kivach160 If you're check-raising all of the strong hands on the flop, what strong hands can you have on the turn if you just call the flop? Does that mean that you should either raise or fold your entire range on the flop?
I don't like the idea of capping your range by check raising the flop 100% of the time with so many value hands. It seems to me that some of those strong hands should just call the flop and then check-raise a brick turn.
@gabrielrockman well,#1) it's a dangerous board! And #2) multiway pot! Turn card might not be a brick. Then what? Start screaming. B/c you just shot yourself in the foot! 🤣
Point 1. You x/r flop 100% of time in this particular scenario only.
Point 2. Going greedy always backfire!
@@pot_kivach160 If you're check-raising with 100% of your value hands on the flop, then you should be check raising or folding all of your hands on the flop and never just over calling.
@@gabrielrockman well, different hand context require different actions, of course. Read Point 1 again in my comment above.
I've ripped it on a hand like this on the turn, but in the cases I ripped it, I had bottom or middle set. I ripped it to put max pressure on the draws and because there are a lot of cards I'm not going to like on the river. However, I'm never bluffing when I rip it here.
Im folding it pre . Cause its a troublesome hand unless it is like AsKs4s or idk 6x6xQx or i guess 2x6x6x. It is all but trouble postflop especially being OOP to everyone. Once we get on the flop we have snap fold on flop . We only hoping for running 6 and 6 and still might be dead or i guess spade spade which we still have potential reverse-implied odds. We asking for trouble at all streets but somehow it worked. By reraising turn we mostly representing J9d and Q3suited of some sort i guess
I think you want to go small on turn and if you don't get raised off, you basically know villain is capped and if we miss the river, jam and out qq, jj even kk that flatted pre, 77, 88 all in a tough spot. The most profitable bluffs are when villain calls flop and turn and folds river.
Hero can rep a flopped monster with a check-raise on the turn, even if he wouldn't actually play it that way.
As long as there are people who would play it like that, and the villains don't know whether you're one of them, you can get away with it.
They'll throw away a ton of beter hands against this play.
I think it's brilliant.
After a thorough tutorial on why going all in is a bad play..
Bart: so what’d you do
Caller: … I shipped it
😂
Yeah I don’t disagree with Bart that when you think it through, hero’s line looks a bit suspect…
But in the moment if I were UTG I’d be very worried about sets or J9. Just because I wouldn’t play then that way and you probably shouldn’t play them that way doesn’t mean people don’t.
No. This is a pure punt.
I like it. Lj is capped, utg range more AA KK AK who will have hard time calling against us who can litteraly have all the 2 pairs, some sets, J9s
if LJ is capped for BB, then he is capped for UTG, too. Beside: Is the UTG capped?? (this is not a question). What's the BB cap by checking flop and checking the turn on a dangerous board (facing double flush draw against 2 opponents!!). So: ""ripping it off"" action is totally inconsistent to all previous actions, and must not be taken seriously! (Big bark of a small dog!).
That was a suicidal action (AA/KK/AQ or better are not folding here)...that somehow turned unsuccessful. lol
The Double check while OOP and the rip-it-off into two opponents, screams a stack suicide. And must be called. You must help your opponent to execute his stack suicide! Otherwise, you must consider yourself a dissident!
260 Baumbach Springs
Good move
035 Greenholt Coves
Fold pre. But I love hero's x/j on the turn (assuming you know he's capable of laying down over pairs). That's only play in this spot.
You would rather call QJ/sets/QT before KQ, AQ and the overpairs. Obviously, you have to call some Aces/Kings w/o a spade or Diamond but at a lesser frequency because of the multi-way nature of the pot.
Literally this.
Wrt pre why do people go "lol look at the odds" yes because you are up against all of those people and OOP. Just fold crap pre.
On the turn C/R gets a shit ton of folds. People think C/C flop, C/R turn is a monster. So some better hands will fold while big draws (that you're ahead of!) will call.
Not C/R here us criminal imo
I actually like this play.
We should be the only one with all combos of two pair and J9 and there are way more combos of AA and KK in UTG range. It looks super crazy strong into two players in a 4 way pre configuration and we have equity if called.
4475 Daugherty Pass
794 Willie Island
This is a fold on the flop, IMO.
Q6 suited is 100% more powerful a hand online idc what ppl say haha!? Anyone have another random online hand that works better online?
Too much showdown value and/or potential to jam this IMO. Would prefer the jamm if you didn't have a pair.
this can only be a profitable play at National Harbor
bart is such a omc
Bart is saying he’d flick in the call if he was UTG with an overpair. OMCs fold.
This is pure punt from the hero. No better hand should be folding on the turn here.
Better queens might fold
Terrible preflop call IMO. unless he's hoping to flop quads or better.
If you are “bluffing” with top pair and a flush draw, ya fucked up.
Not true... if you can get a better hand to fold you are actually playing above the rim
"Let's see how outta line you get " you know exactly how the hand goes 😂😂😂
Big fan of your hand breakdowns, Bart, but I'm absolutely not a fan of your nostradamus like predictions when you literally get emailed the hand and know exactly how it unfolds.
Enough with the hollywooding ffs😂
First comment!
Wow
how to put yourself in trouble?
1) do not resist when others put you there
2) if just no one tries to put you in troubles, then you MUST do it by yourself! enter flop at all cost...even if it takes a very speculative hand. Once on flop, what a relief! This, that's already access on the way to trouble. Of course call flop bet...even if it's crap kicker, no draw, just a top pair...and against multi opponents. The more opponents, the better! The Trouble is almost guaranteed this way. Then, on turn when you pick up mini equity...rip it off! Right into 2 opponents!! Cuz, if you just call turn bet, and made it on river somehow, then by then all your troubles might be slipping away! Damn!