Investment Banking Escapee Reacts to the Goldman Sachs Working Conditions Survey
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
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Hi All - As announced in this video (bit.ly/3eduRGS) I’ve launched a Career Consulting / Life Chatting “Service” where I’m meeting people virtually for 30 minute sessions. I’m continuing to make videos and answering every question I can in the comments as always and live streaming every Wednesday at 10pm EST, but this is a good opportunity if you’re in need of individually catered advice. If you’re interested, please fill out this form forms.gle/LRdnvX7inZWYoBrj7 Looking forward to hearing from you!
Why not just hire more people and pay everyone less?
"I hate my job, I hate my life."
- Look! We got you a Peloton bike, pretty sweet right?
LOL
Don't have the time to use it but least you own it.
i am not settling anything below the amg gtr lmao
i love your point about “how inhumane can it be “ there are definitely worst things that somebody can be going through. at first when i saw the survey i was like wow
this sucks but yeah making that much money and having that great network as a 22 year old is pretty crazy that you can’t get anywhere else. love the video Bryan. been a fan for a while!
Yeah that was a big reflection point for me - thanks much!
I’ve been waiting for this video ever since this survey came out😂😂
WOOT
Worked at GS for six months. Left for a private firm. Insane how they can’t legally force you to work more than 40 hours a week, but somehow they do… 🧐
You'll have signed away your right to work in line with the working time directive when you started
Its criminal to make someone work more then 40hrs
I'm ex-IB Analyst in Africa. I only stayed for 1 year and moved into Industry. Yup, i slept at 3AM pretty much most of the time. Left the office at 9PM at the earliest. Worked weekends a lot of the time. Add the CFA program to all that, i had to break-up with my girlfriend because i just had no time left.
Would i do it again? Yes. Its opened so many doors. I'm paid way more than i need just because of that 1 year.
Completely agreed on all fronts
Can you explain in detail how it was worth for you and opened doors for you in just one year?
@@JY-uv5zz You work on so many multi-sector deals so i built high-level networks, wide knowledge base, rare technical finance & powerpoint skills, bandwidth. Also, IB is prestigious so a lot of people respect you, interviewers especially. Here in Africa, IB skills are pretty lightening-strike rare, so you become really marketable to start-ups looking to raise. I'm currently working for a start-up, we just raised a Series A.
For context, we only have 2 IB/MBB-style firms in my country so all grads are competing for literally a handful of spots.
would you say the breakup was worth it??? Given your way of thinking, would you also say dating you during that year was worth it for that girl???
@@aliceland992 Top priority at the time was career advancement and I was willing to trade anything or anyone for it. Everyone understands Cost of Equity, Cost of Debt, well, there's a Cost of Success, and i believe it was her.
Worth it for her? I'd say it gave her a great reference point for future relationships, so yes.
I was considering a job in IB! I'm so glad to see this and I still have other options to choose from!
Options is always good!!
Eeee it's not so easy
What other options are you considering?
Thank you so much for this video! I am working for a competitor and it’s not different! I 100% agree on the comment regarding that you waist your time by working on projects that are going nowhere! Please continue doing these video, this slavery needs to end!
Hope everything is going well at the new job Bryan. Love the content on the channel, my guy. Great insight into the industry
Thanks so much!
It seemed like a dream job to us freshers. I always wanted into fintech and investment banking
If you can believe this, my dad was a Senior VP at Goldman Sachs and worked there for a long time and when I asked about him working long hours all the time and the he responded with a monologue about “that’s what we are paid to do and the will it takes to be great”.
Bryan, thanks for this. I would not have known any of this as I am too far from the industry so you are raising awareness. Great video.
Glad it was informative!
It’s not much better stress wise but I’m glad I stuck with engineering. I get to work all my plans from home and there’s no one breathing down my neck and I haven’t seen a single colleague in 8 months.
dude if u can find an ex-IB analyst to interview, that’d be super valuable
Yea - he is
I can interview myself!
Wooooo
@@TheBryanJun Bryan you gotta do it Ryan George/Pitch Meeting style but I guess in a more serious tone.
He is a IB analyst lol.
I love that you don't waste time on your videos, it's really a rare thing on youtube videos
I try my best!!!
I relate to this SO MUCH! I left MBB management consulting in a year since I was working average of 95 hours a week. A lot of the times my team didn’t even have time to go out to eat so we’d eat deliver meal on the one hand while working on the other hand. Lack of sleep and non existent social life really takes a toll on you. I had to leave since I gained unhealthy amount of weight and was having other health issues. Great video!
Yeah you can really lose grip when lost in the sauce!! Thanks for watching
What happened after you left, i mean where did you career go into next?
Which career did you pursue afterwards
The fact that 80 hours would be good for them and what they recommended is depressing
I was literally thinking the same thing! How is 80 hours a good number?!
Goldman Sachs sounds like a place where you have to ask permission to piss, and when you do they take the time it took you to piss out of your PTO behind your back. Then when you question it they hand you a handbook explaining how they’re allowed to do that, but it’s in Wing Dings font.
A lot of people think that Investment bankers are at the pinnacle of earning but often they work 100 hrs per week and earn about 100-120k. That’s a bit over $20/hr and nobody realizes that. And don’t think they take home that 100-120k, they live in very expensive areas that eat that up.
yeah the hourly does get tough, but another way to look at it is not many jobs allow you to work that much
@@TheBryanJun they don't allow you to work that much for good reasons! 100-hour weeks ruin morale
"What company treats its customer that Shitily and succeeds... Fine, ok, Goldman, you're right!"
... apparently includes employees too!
0:33 I worked a job for 2weeks back in February at a local outlet. I worked 84per week exluding Sunday n my pay was $51.59 that $8000 in jmd. That minimum wage in Jamaica.
Great video Bryan!
Thanks!
If they give you time.. you might go stray and perhaps 🤪 become an entrepreneur
You only work crazy days and hours if working for yourself. If not, you are just enriching your employer. Live to work or work to live?
I was actually surprised by the presentation. I didn’t think it was particularly well made when I read it.
I mean I worked in the oilfield in North Dakota working 16-20hr days for 20+ days straight so it’s not that surprising honestly. People just seem to think that with higher paying jobs that most are just working 40 hour weeks which is not realistic.
Most higher paying salaries require a literal full time commitment 80+ hrs a week and if you aren’t willing to do that the likelihood is you will not break that $150k a year threshold.
Agreed - there's a reason why jobs pay what they pay
One day you’ll wake up and realize that you are doing the jobs of 3 people . Hence the pay and the hours.
What kind of career paths are there to choose from after working in IB?
I just had an interview with them. They told me there is “some hours of overtime” but crazy all I see on youtube is 80-100 hours of work….
you get well paid for the overtime tho
@@user-fx5rx6ds1w i did hear that too!
When you have some skin in the game your complaints will hold some weight. This is what makes not listening to analysis so easy.
there's always.a bias that comes with being a part of what you're analyzing for sure
One of the best videos out there. Unbaised and realistic one
Thanks!
I've been complaining about my 60hr job. 95 is just outrageous
Haha, hang in there! (Ex-GS TMT banker)
The GS Working Conditions Survey is not a well aligned presentation. The blue boxes jump and there is no reason why they should differ in size.
Is it nice not working as much at the startup, do you ever regret leaving?
It's great - I definitely reflect on quitting all the time but I don't think I regret it!
I feel bad for anyone who thinks monetary gain is more important than their freedom, health, family, friends, and relationships. You have to have a severely misconstrued view on the point of life. As someone who has the econ and math degree to be an IB, I stayed as far away as possible from it. Nothing material is worth that much stress in life, unless of course, those materials are the basic necessities. But there is a difference between a mansion and a home that no amount of money can buy. Money will buy you a really nice watch..but not time. It will can buy you a bed..but not sleep. It can buy you food..but not an appetite. There are things money cant buy, sadly people have been taught the things that money can buy are more valuable.
I recommend reading Monkey Business and Liar’s Poker!
yuge fans
I work in Bank of Baroda
And we have more or less similar condition
But u know what , I enjoy it .
Because nobody is waiting for me at home anyway .
That's actually sad
@@GoldenBoy-sq6yl so?
@@Caiser ok??
Are all the stats from the survey with 13 analysts? If so, then some of the %'s are unrealistic
Not unrealistic but definitely a wide confidence interval
I'm going into my freshman year of college for economics this video is really making me reconsider...
I'm going into my final year of econ and I feel the same way lol
Hmm sounds like they're not Rise and Grinding enough
I wonder how long do they actually actually working? meeting, presentation, on call waiting does not count
This is late, but I'm looking into IB and I already knew about the hours but physical/mental health is important to me, like most people. So, is this reflective of COVID like you said or is this general life.
General life.
WLB at GS is non existent and if you’re in IB at GS, you won’t even dream about WLB. No time to sleep or dream.
I still see IB as a very good opportunity if u think of it more like a 1 yr experience than as a long term career
I completely agree
How is Corporate workplace solution division?
What would you recommend (if anything) as an alternative to banking right out of college? Is that truly the only way to gain the expertise/networks to have a successful career in finance? Just curious!
If you can directly go into the buyside and you're fully committed to finance, it's probably the best "alternative" but it may pigeonhole you
Fintech- data analysis , software development. Chill culture and amazing money
can relate very much to the dogecoin thing
HAHA
Is the working hours in private equity same as investment banking ????
I've heard it's a little better especially depending on the shop.. I think due to the nature of the work though it feels like it's less
$120k in NYC is not much. Honestly that $120k is equivalent to low/mid $60k range in the Midwest. But hey six figs....right??
I don’t know why anyone would willingly want to go into IB. I hear a bunch of college kids on Reddit who think it’s glamorous when in reality is so awful. Then they turn around and make fun of people who have actual work-life balance such as those in corporate finance.
In real terms you’re not really getting paid more.
Thanks for opening our eyes to this awful industry man
Yeah I think there's definitely cons of the industry but also plenty of reasons why people go in - I'm still on the side that it's worth it in the long run but when you're amidst it there's pain points
@@TheBryanJun To each their own my guy. Glad you learned so much. Love your videos btw, you are really doing something awesome here and we really appreciate what you got going on. It definitely helps those career searching a lot.
I wanted to become an investment banker
What all subjects or knowledge should I learn??....
I can assure you banking work hours aren't just a first world problem, in third world countries they still work you insane hours but worst since you don't get paid enough
also very true
I see it as a way to get halfway to retirement in under 3/4 years. Maybe it is worth it, how would I know?
it's definitely a balance of opportunity costs
@Wings_of_Death I didn't make that assumption
@Wings_of_Death fabulous
nice video i got a question i have dreadlocks right now is that a problem in the IB industry i dont mind cutting them off
It can be. I wouldn't risk it if I were you, in case they decide not to hire you because they think the clients won't approve of the look.
I had long hair that I cut just before I interviewed. The tips from people I know in executive positions said to play it safe at the junior level. Then when you become senior, if you still want to have a louder style then they can't stop you.
@@baz1184 thank you for your advice and response
In London, there's a guy who has dreadlocks who works within Quant finance. However he has a First class degree in Maths from Cambridge uni lol
Which division were you working in GS?
Bryan, you didn't have a raging 8 pack and 30 inch biceps???
Unfortunately not
Is work satisfying anywhere these days. I'm a doctor, I'd say its similar feelings. Hmmmm.
It is no doubt the greed of the partners dictating these type of work hours. It all about how much they can pocket
I just left banking after 1.5 years for a tech company for more money and more life balance. I think it's going to be a challenge to attract NEW talent, that being said the sector manages to retain quite well I've found.
Yeah I think there will definitely be slight adjustments but the reality is wallstreet will probably never have a lack of applicants
@@TheBryanJun Agree
What’s your tech job?
What are some of the first careers that come to mind when you think of marginally less or comparable pay for better w/l balance?
Cs
Probs SWE or like corp dev
yea, swe is like the polar opposite of this. I am currently at FAANG making more than my IB peers with less hours.
Management consulting (MBB)
@@lucyalice3 that working hours there is cray cray
Also, I worked in private banking and the hours were easy, perhaps investment Bankers should consider that as a career instead?
By far not the same pay bruh
How much u getting paid
@@jonathansolouki3102 don’t want to brag or anything, but I’ll be interning in IBD at a bulge bracket in Londen this summer
@@thedarkknight7626 Investment Bankers in London make £1 over the London Living Wage per hour
Working in a Big 4 here in the Bahamas. And very anxious every morning to see my emails
:( anxiety in the bahamas sounds like an oxymoron
Gotta make the investors happy bro
Always
Recently my daughter quit leading u s investment bank due to over working hours and fatigue.
hope she's doing well now!
Have you sought counseling? No cuz I is working 100hr a week and sleeping the rest of the time.
Wow guess I shouldn’t complain about public accounting anymore
How does anyone date or meet new people to date and gain new friendships when working those long hours?
They don't! Jokes
i work at a neo bank and this is completely new, it’s a lot peaceful and happy place it’s just couple months in don’t know how bad it would be for you guys
Tbh, I'm an accountant. Sometimes we do get assigned to crazy clients where we spent half a day in another time zone.
The workload is huge? Yes.
Are they going to change? Most likely no. Big corps get enough reputation to bring in a lot of new recruits every year. And it's cheaper to pay them than their supervisors. In a large pool of choice, keeping a handful of supervisors and refreshing the lower level employees every year is more preferable.
Most employee's response: I have talked to quite a few accountants and most of us agree that we only need the Big4 for 3-5 years (or equivalent practice experience). Not too sure how it works with the banking industry, but for us, unless we are determined to be a partner, we don't set out to stay in Big4 for more than 5 years. Usually, the exit point is 3 years or 5 years, depending on the role you want to achieve after exiting.
and as a statistician myself (I studied Economics in UK), 13 respondents is not that much for a sample size...Especially when you carry out a survey for research purpose.
The truth about investment banking is that since the technical knowledge requirement is so low. Lots of ppl compete for the job. Thus they can outwork their employees and select from top schools. The up side imo is the potential to move up. I heard life gets easier But many don’t make it. I’d rather be a software engineer is Silicon Valley making nearly the same but with 40 hr weeks and using my brain instead of “hustle”
Yeah I think in a weird way the barrier to entry is low since you can enter with just an undergraduate degree and not an insane list of technical ability
Stay in IB or PE long enough to make MD and you're literally making making millions before 40. Not possible in software engineering.
@@krystal7958 very possible before 40 for someone to become senior software engineer or tech lead at meta or Google and make millions with RSU
@@laughoutmeow nicht wirklich. Not to mention that those are the top 2 tech firms. An MD at pretty much any IB, MM or BB, and most PE firms is making close to 7 figures at least.
@@krystal7958 I just named 2 for sake of time
What were your hours worked during COVID and was this typical for some of your other colleagues?
Criminals keep strange hours.
Not just IB. Public Accounting life is not less stressful, especially at Big 4.
yeah advisory in general is a pretty stressful field to be in
@@TheBryanJun Definitely. Luckily there are other areas where life can be enjoyable again while making decent amount. Govcon for example.
I get paid more on a per hour basis as a first year credit analyst than gs analysts.
It would be nice to hear from the winners who were mentally tough to make it there. A parallel would be - not everyone makes it to be a Navy SEAL. Many wash out.
I'll find someone to interview
If the case is so with investment banks eventually staff will migrate to other areas quitting their present job.😭😭
there's definitely a trend towards that but also an ample amount of people still interested in IB
Realistic perspective
Yeeet
Bro the fact is they just want money and power..The people at the top f with the lives of new employees without giving a piece of duck shit to what ever happens to them
Everyone of us in investment banking read it while eating our popcorn.
Well go to private equity....
What else can u do with a finance degree other than working in toxic coperate environments?
I'm open to going to other feilds not just finance.
100k for 100 hour work weeks is is 5200 hours in a year so ur making 19.23 cents an hour, so a lil above min wage to feel like shit.
LMFAO
Goldman sach still running its serfdom?
Free Peloponnese bikes?!! Those things are like 5,000 to 7,000 good lord.
Good Video, Bryan. I'm in finance and working those hours are 100% worth it in the long-run. Life is a marathon not a sprint
For how terrible it sounds, I'd imagine these people get paid at least 200k a year. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to go through all of that only to make a multi billion dollar company richer and not even acknowledge their workers for it.
First year analysts? No way. Try 40-50k
Maybe 50k if you're lucky. It's more like an internship, you take it for the opportunities that come afterwards.
@@Jordanz0rd first year analysts at goldman sachs easily make upwards of 90k with a ton more job prospects and opened doors
@@Skycosis no goldman sachs analyst is making 50k
Yeah I think if you're considering total comp packages the compensation is definitely one of the most you can make right out of undergrad - to your point there's something to be said about having your job center around making rich people richer, but I think it's really hard to find fulfillment in what you're doing in most jobs
You said analysts make insane amounts of money. Can you talk in contrete terms? What's the median yearly rate?
I’ll give my Australian perspective. The big investment banks pay between AUD 150k-175k base rate for a first year analyst (not including bonuses which can be AUD 25k-70k or more)
Invested
into GS? haha
What do IB people do btw?
Check out my very first video!
I was looking into a financial analyst job at Morgan Stanley. Glad I didn’t do it and really glad to see I made the right decision.
always many routes to life!
the hours are not worth it. never again for me
I’m a in the tech industry and in the crypto business. Making so much more money than the times when I was aligning fucking logos on a PowerPoint for 4 hours at 10 pm. Fuck that
crypto to the moon!!!
I worked 80-100 hours a week for a year and half straight NO DAYS OFF except for Christmas Day and Thanksgiving working two full time jobs both together brought me a $150K+. I found that it was the most developmental time of my life (29). I felt like the President because I was so busy. I believe every single person should spend one year of their life spending 100 hours a week working. You learn so much about yourself and what you’re capable of. It doesn’t have to be a job, but dedicated 100 hours a week to something will 100% give results with discipline.
I completely agree - I think it's a very valuable experience regardless of the medium and the best time to do it is when you're "young" whatever that means for you
@@TheBryanJun lmao I'm a data scientist working 40hr/week and make 150K
Ryan reacts :)
a new series a new name!
Ticker CMKI on sale rn
i be in hs and sleeping at 3 to study on the daily 💀
bruh you should be enjoying life
@@TheBryanJun im a senior now and just about to submit my last supp. hopefully the hard work paid off 🙏
it seems to me that IB people are just in the rat race as everyone else - maybe even more. i don’t see myself living this lifestyle. the money isn’t worth it for me, i think. also, i think there are better ways to go up the corporate ladder. yes, probably slower ways, but less degrading!
Yeah I think everyone is stuck in the rat race when in reality we should really take a step back to evaluate what really matters
Sounds like the army
I don't really understand why gs does this? It sounds like they need more man power. So y don't they hire more ppl?
Thumbs up for the lack of intro alone.
It's something I don't believe in hahaha