The illustrations are great -- its nice to see a modern ttrpg using the classic western "comic book" style of art, rather than the western/manga amalgamation style thats become the norm within a lot of tabletop.
I don’t think I’d characterize generic western fantasy art as manga-like. It’s definitely devoid of creativity in many cases, but manga influences are actually very rare except in games specifically meant to evoke it (e.g. BESM or the new Break!).
@@maxducoudray Nah. Look at American comic book & fantasy art largely from the 50s - mid 90s (late example Jim Lee). Theres a steady realism approach that began to loosen with artists like Joe Madureira, that accompanied the more widespread popularity of manga and anime in the west. If you examine their styles, you'll see that its an amalgamation of the two styles under discussion. Loose realism infused with the "cartoonish" signature of anime/manga. What I'll call the "Wayne Reynolds style" (which is just the furtherance of the style of former artists like Joe Madureira) is widely the norm now in a LARGE percentage of western entertainment art. The art style of the ttrpg that is the topic of this video harkens back to a time when western fantasy & comic book art was * its own * design.
@@insertnamehere8121 I guess I disagree that standard fantasy art is similar to comic book styles in general, whether western or Japanese. Wayne Reynolds painted art is nothing like comic art, nor is old-school black-and-white art from early D&D. Even many classic superhero RPGs look more like fantasy art than comic books imo.
The game I've had the most luck converting 5E players with is Numenera but I think once Dragonbane from Free League comes out it'll be good for that too, I ran the quickstart for my group and they had a blast.
I like the Thorgal comics quite a lot, and love the kinda old school vibe of mixing scifi and fantasy. I think the 5e adjacent mechanics isn't quite for me. But it seems like a great game overall. The settlement building thing sure is appealing.
Great review, didn't even know this game nor Gamefound existed and glad to be made aware of. I've been really digging RPG's from across the pond, recently picked up Lex Arcana and hoping a future review might be on that!
Your channel has been my exposure to non-DnD roleplaying games; I watch those other channels you identified in this video, but your channel has always been the one channel that brings those other TTRPGs consistently to my attention. Just wanted to give you a nod as being the best channel I know of for bringing recognition to these games most of us have never heard of before
Just a weird thought. This game has a peculiarly nostalgic feel to me because I used to play a lot of WEG's D6 System (as used for Star Wars and Metabarons). It's in no way a copy, it's just that there are analogous bits here and there, such as open-ended rerolls and the layout for powers. This isn't a criticism in any sense, because if it feels at all like D6 then that raises my interest quite a bit. D6 always ran into trouble with higher dice pools (see WEG Star Wars and its "blaster-proof Wookie" problem), so a system with similar vibes but adjusted to d20 rolls would be very nice.
I always think that a roleplaying game should be challenging so that players will be more excited. And the rulebook can help a lot whether it's before or while playing the game. 😃
Great review! I read some of the comics and appreciated the art and the action (if not the story or characters though, tbh). The product looks good but perhaps too close to both D&D5e and some other systems and settings I'm rather more interested in.
I know I read the Swedish translation of Thorgal as a child, so when I saw that your vid I was like "huh, cool!". Even cooler that it actually sounds really good and I think it could work well for any other Norse Fantasy-Sword & Sorcery type setting, like Conan. Just making the special powers into "sorceries" in Conan's case!
Dave, huge fan of the channel. A while back you cover a game that use 3 different dice for checks, skill, abilities and equipment. I think it was a post apocalyptic game. I’m looking to watch that video again. Any help would be great. Thank you for all of your hard work. All the best, Nate
I like the comic series, but didn't find out until now that an rpg was being made for it. One thing I'd like to know is how character advancement works. The character sheet contains a space for experience points, but there don't seem to be levels. So, does advancement work like in other level-less systems such as Savage Worlds?
Good overview. I guess whether the theme alone makes it a better game is debatable. It really depends on the players’ interest in Vikings and Norse mythology. That same, the system looks solid and perhaps we will get other settings using this system.
Since I found your channel when you talked about Cypher/Numenera, its been pleasing that there's someone (now a few people) who talk about stuff that isn't D&D 5E... So when those creators that you mentioned did this "TTRPG's that aren't D&D (5E) for July" thing, I was like "yeah, no shite"... But then, alot of them just rehash the same goddam TTRPG's... Call of Cthulhu, Blades in the Dark, Pathfinder, and EZd6... Sometimes Shadowdark and Shadow of the Demon Lord get a mention, but its usually those first 4... I cant stand that token level of exposure... Are those 4 the first results for a google search or something? Sometimes Shadowrun gets a passing mention, but its generally not reviewed...nor mentioned that its a d6 Dice Pool game... because, y'know, someone else recently invented that, apparently...LOL... Anywho... Apparently I was unsubbed from your channel? Dont know how that happened, but I resubbed.
That's great, because Thorgal comics are fantastic. They are cult classics in Belgium and Poland. Grzegorz Rosiński is a Polish artist, who lives in Belgium where he moved in the 70's. After fall of communism Polish market opened, and new comics from all over the world began to appear. Thorgal was one of the first series. I wholeheartedly recommend reading them. They are so much better than Supermans, Spidermens and other superhero stuff. Difference is like night and day.
The addition of "oh by the way you're actually an alien" seems very odd. You'd think being a Viking in a Norse fantasy setting would be enough to get into. Still, nice to see more games out there!
Superman's story is based off Moses. Moses-like figures are pretty common in myth. So the overlap is likely moreso due to the close ties to mythology this world has than Superman himself.
Thematically, this seems like a fun game, though I think a number of real players might not want to play "we're all space aliens with super-powers just happen to be able to pass for northern european." There's a little cringe there.
All those little stacking bonuses remind me more of 3e than 5e. It gets away from the elegance that is the advantage/disadvantage mechanic. And those multiple ways of influencing rolls and meta currencies feel clumsy to me compared to the unified feel of Cypher System or Year Zero Engine games, or even Modiphius' 2d20 systems.
It seems too narrowly restricted to Nordic settings. In this respect I think it loses out to D&D completely. Those who are fans of ancient Nordic culture might like it, but I'd prefer something of wider scope.
My thoughts while watching this video: Oh cool, setting looks interesting. *Downloads quick start pdf* Oh would you look at that you don't die when you reach zero vitality. So it has the same cowardly rules of 5E. You would think that a gritty setting would have rules that reflect that but nope we need to accommodate that pathetic modern player base...well going back to Basic/Expert and OSE because those games don't feel the need to coddle the players.
What, back to Basic/Expert D&D, where your characters can't die permanently once they get access to 5th level cleric spells or 6th level magic-user spells? Which means a party with a 7th level cleric can only be killed if the cleric dies, and that's assuming there's no resurrection at the nearby temples? PLEASE, TELL ME AGAIN HOW D&D USED TO BE TOUGH. The character's story ends when they die permanently. Permanent death from a random goblin's arrow or a snake bite is the game's way of saying that the player was a fool for caring about what happened to their character. Rules that allow the character to lose things -- possessions, opportunities, status, whatever -- and then carry on and try to recover from the loss are where interesting character stories come from. Let characters move on through their lives until they reach a meaningful fate, not one based on a save-or-die poison dart from a locked treasure chest.
@@SingularityOrbit If you survive to that high level as a Cleric then you've earned the power to perform that miracle, it also takes a lot longer to get to that level in Old School. Yes Old School D&D is tougher, writing in all caps doesn't change that. If having one character die makes the player feel like a fool for caring about their character then they are immaturely attached to their character, it's a sign of narcissism that instead of being interested in seeing a dynamic story of the world unfold they are only interested in their own personal success. Life is harsh and fragile, people die sometimes in an untimely manner but one bad car accident. The point of the game is to go into dangerous situations, face Death and do your best to avoid or overcome it. If you die you make a new character and try again seeing what they can accomplish in their life. Death comes for all of us sometimes when we don't expect it in both D&D and real life. Death is a part of the game I'm not removing it to protect weak people with fragile egos.
@@BX-advocate I was going to point out that it only takes 97,500xp to get a cleric to level 7 in B/E D&D, but . . . come on. I was really hoping your earlier comment was a joke. People die in dumb ways in real life, yes, but that's the reality we're stuck in every day. Fiction can be better than that. The genre's called fantasy. Roleplaying is about choices, which stop when the character dies or retires. Characters who lose possessions, allies, prestige, then go on to make more choices in response. Dead characters just lay there while the rest of the party loot the body.
Oh no, the idea of falling unconscious? Even some games contemporary to B/X didn't have death at 0, and homebrew adding mechanics to work around that rule are some of the earliest and most used to this day in OSR circles. For that matter, you could homebrew the rule you dislike in this to be more in line with what you want. I mean B/X and OSE encourage if not require a degree of homebrew, so that shouldn't be a deal breaker.
Mmmh. So, devil's advocate here: can someone tell me why not simply take the Thorgal series setting and use it in a regular 5e campaign, instead of playing this ? Or use B/X or any other system, if you don't like 5e ? My point being, is the system really truly novator and worth learning ? if not, then it's a proper campaign setting we need, and maybe not yet another new indy game that feels and looks kinda generic, system-wise ?
Alright, I like the idea, but what puts me off is that I have to read up on Viking mythology and culture, which would take days, and being a descendant of a god doesn't have much room for a unique character because, as I think of it, no matter how bad your character's life, they literally cannot fail at anything and were born set for life.
@@somerandomguy7325 No, if I understand correctly they are somewhat superhuman, not actually immortal or divine. They die like regular mortals. Remember that the setting actually has literal Norse gods as part of the setting.
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Teaser] | 05-12-24](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P5Uto6e453w/mqdefault.jpg)
Support the channel by joining my Patreon! www.patreon.com/thaumavore
Sign up for my newsletter! bit.ly/ThaumavoreNewsletter
The illustrations are great -- its nice to see a modern ttrpg using the classic western "comic book" style of art, rather than the western/manga amalgamation style thats become the norm within a lot of tabletop.
I don’t think I’d characterize generic western fantasy art as manga-like. It’s definitely devoid of creativity in many cases, but manga influences are actually very rare except in games specifically meant to evoke it (e.g. BESM or the new Break!).
@@maxducoudray
Nah. Look at American comic book & fantasy art largely from the 50s - mid 90s (late example Jim Lee). Theres a steady realism approach that began to loosen with artists like Joe Madureira, that accompanied the more widespread popularity of manga and anime in the west.
If you examine their styles, you'll see that its an amalgamation of the two styles under discussion. Loose realism infused with the "cartoonish" signature of anime/manga.
What I'll call the "Wayne Reynolds style" (which is just the furtherance of the style of former artists like Joe Madureira) is widely the norm now in a LARGE percentage of western entertainment art.
The art style of the ttrpg that is the topic of this video harkens back to a time when western fantasy & comic book art was * its own * design.
@@insertnamehere8121 I guess I disagree that standard fantasy art is similar to comic book styles in general, whether western or Japanese. Wayne Reynolds painted art is nothing like comic art, nor is old-school black-and-white art from early D&D. Even many classic superhero RPGs look more like fantasy art than comic books imo.
The word you are looking for is Bandes dessinées.
Amen. So tired of the hyper-colorful cutsie hi-fantasy "artwork" that most modern game systems employ.
The game I've had the most luck converting 5E players with is Numenera but I think once Dragonbane from Free League comes out it'll be good for that too, I ran the quickstart for my group and they had a blast.
I like the Thorgal comics quite a lot, and love the kinda old school vibe of mixing scifi and fantasy. I think the 5e adjacent mechanics isn't quite for me. But it seems like a great game overall. The settlement building thing sure is appealing.
I’m really curious about the settlements for sure.
Great review, didn't even know this game nor Gamefound existed and glad to be made aware of. I've been really digging RPG's from across the pond, recently picked up Lex Arcana and hoping a future review might be on that!
Yeah Gamefound is actually a perfectly good site for crowdfunding I’ve found. It just doesn’t have the reach of Kickstarter. Hopefully it will grow.
One RPG.
This RPG's (is) really fun.
This RPG's mechanics are difficult (possessive).
Five RPGs use that system.
Your channel has been my exposure to non-DnD roleplaying games; I watch those other channels you identified in this video, but your channel has always been the one channel that brings those other TTRPGs consistently to my attention. Just wanted to give you a nod as being the best channel I know of for bringing recognition to these games most of us have never heard of before
Try WFRP. And what's TTRPGs?
What! I am shocked this exists! Amazing.
Thorgal is a great series as is, nice to see a fleshed out RPG format aswell.
This looks amazing! Instant back!:D
I'm in love with the art. The setting sounds great too.
Read the series, Thorgal is awesome! One of my favourite comic books, since my childhood.
Amazing review that is really in-depth yet easily digestible. Criminally undersubbed channel. Gonna try to help fix that. SUBBED!!
Thank you!
Just a weird thought. This game has a peculiarly nostalgic feel to me because I used to play a lot of WEG's D6 System (as used for Star Wars and Metabarons). It's in no way a copy, it's just that there are analogous bits here and there, such as open-ended rerolls and the layout for powers. This isn't a criticism in any sense, because if it feels at all like D6 then that raises my interest quite a bit. D6 always ran into trouble with higher dice pools (see WEG Star Wars and its "blaster-proof Wookie" problem), so a system with similar vibes but adjusted to d20 rolls would be very nice.
I always think that a roleplaying game should be challenging so that players will be more excited. And the rulebook can help a lot whether it's before or while playing the game. 😃
Great review! I read some of the comics and appreciated the art and the action (if not the story or characters though, tbh). The product looks good but perhaps too close to both D&D5e and some other systems and settings I'm rather more interested in.
I know I read the Swedish translation of Thorgal as a child, so when I saw that your vid I was like "huh, cool!". Even cooler that it actually sounds really good and I think it could work well for any other Norse Fantasy-Sword & Sorcery type setting, like Conan. Just making the special powers into "sorceries" in Conan's case!
Another good D&D alternative is Free League’s Dragonbane RPG, which just started shipping to backers.
Dave, huge fan of the channel. A while back you cover a game that use 3 different dice for checks, skill, abilities and equipment. I think it was a post apocalyptic game. I’m looking to watch that video again. Any help would be great. Thank you for all of your hard work.
All the best,
Nate
Mutant Year Zero I think.
I like the comic series, but didn't find out until now that an rpg was being made for it. One thing I'd like to know is how character advancement works. The character sheet contains a space for experience points, but there don't seem to be levels. So, does advancement work like in other level-less systems such as Savage Worlds?
Good overview. I guess whether the theme alone makes it a better game is debatable. It really depends on the players’ interest in Vikings and Norse mythology. That same, the system looks solid and perhaps we will get other settings using this system.
I might get this for the art alone.
You may be interested in Thorgal comics then. They are amazing.
Since I found your channel when you talked about Cypher/Numenera, its been pleasing that there's someone (now a few people) who talk about stuff that isn't D&D 5E...
So when those creators that you mentioned did this "TTRPG's that aren't D&D (5E) for July" thing, I was like "yeah, no shite"...
But then, alot of them just rehash the same goddam TTRPG's... Call of Cthulhu, Blades in the Dark, Pathfinder, and EZd6... Sometimes Shadowdark and Shadow of the Demon Lord get a mention, but its usually those first 4...
I cant stand that token level of exposure...
Are those 4 the first results for a google search or something?
Sometimes Shadowrun gets a passing mention, but its generally not reviewed...nor mentioned that its a d6 Dice Pool game... because, y'know, someone else recently invented that, apparently...LOL...
Anywho...
Apparently I was unsubbed from your channel? Dont know how that happened, but I resubbed.
I read the first book maybe 30 or 35 years ago and enjoyed it, but never found later volumes.
The game sounds cool but I now have an interest for this comic.
That's great, because Thorgal comics are fantastic. They are cult classics in Belgium and Poland. Grzegorz Rosiński is a Polish artist, who lives in Belgium where he moved in the 70's. After fall of communism Polish market opened, and new comics from all over the world began to appear. Thorgal was one of the first series. I wholeheartedly recommend reading them. They are so much better than Supermans, Spidermens and other superhero stuff. Difference is like night and day.
The addition of "oh by the way you're actually an alien" seems very odd. You'd think being a Viking in a Norse fantasy setting would be enough to get into. Still, nice to see more games out there!
Makes sense within the comic lore
Might be good to borrow ideas from this. Not sold on it but there's some points worth reusing.
Would this be good for someone who doesnt really play dnd?
Looks great!
I dont think id like this game. But i like this channel, so im commenting for the algorithm.
Now that there's more information it sounds like Critical Role's Daggerheart might have some inspiration from this.
This looks promising
Am I the only one who sees an almost 1-to-1 analog with Superman's story? At least in its origins.
I never thought about that. It does track pretty closely. Although Thorgal’s powers aren’t nearly as strong.
@@DaveThaumavore Torgal has no power, only his children have some.
@@miaou5878 Ah, well then the Superman parallel fails on a key element then.
And Moses, which Superman was based off of.
Superman's story is based off Moses. Moses-like figures are pretty common in myth. So the overlap is likely moreso due to the close ties to mythology this world has than Superman himself.
Thematically, this seems like a fun game, though I think a number of real players might not want to play "we're all space aliens with super-powers just happen to be able to pass for northern european." There's a little cringe there.
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Boycott WotC.
plus plus plus .... arithmetic is boring. At least they didn't create 50+ subclasses with all different mechanics.
First I've seen of someone arguing against customization
All those little stacking bonuses remind me more of 3e than 5e. It gets away from the elegance that is the advantage/disadvantage mechanic. And those multiple ways of influencing rolls and meta currencies feel clumsy to me compared to the unified feel of Cypher System or Year Zero Engine games, or even Modiphius' 2d20 systems.
It seems too narrowly restricted to Nordic settings. In this respect I think it loses out to D&D completely. Those who are fans of ancient Nordic culture might like it, but I'd prefer something of wider scope.
My thoughts while watching this video: Oh cool, setting looks interesting.
*Downloads quick start pdf*
Oh would you look at that you don't die when you reach zero vitality. So it has the same cowardly rules of 5E. You would think that a gritty setting would have rules that reflect that but nope we need to accommodate that pathetic modern player base...well going back to Basic/Expert and OSE because those games don't feel the need to coddle the players.
Cool.
What, back to Basic/Expert D&D, where your characters can't die permanently once they get access to 5th level cleric spells or 6th level magic-user spells? Which means a party with a 7th level cleric can only be killed if the cleric dies, and that's assuming there's no resurrection at the nearby temples?
PLEASE, TELL ME AGAIN HOW D&D USED TO BE TOUGH.
The character's story ends when they die permanently. Permanent death from a random goblin's arrow or a snake bite is the game's way of saying that the player was a fool for caring about what happened to their character. Rules that allow the character to lose things -- possessions, opportunities, status, whatever -- and then carry on and try to recover from the loss are where interesting character stories come from. Let characters move on through their lives until they reach a meaningful fate, not one based on a save-or-die poison dart from a locked treasure chest.
@@SingularityOrbit If you survive to that high level as a Cleric then you've earned the power to perform that miracle, it also takes a lot longer to get to that level in Old School. Yes Old School D&D is tougher, writing in all caps doesn't change that. If having one character die makes the player feel like a fool for caring about their character then they are immaturely attached to their character, it's a sign of narcissism that instead of being interested in seeing a dynamic story of the world unfold they are only interested in their own personal success. Life is harsh and fragile, people die sometimes in an untimely manner but one bad car accident. The point of the game is to go into dangerous situations, face Death and do your best to avoid or overcome it. If you die you make a new character and try again seeing what they can accomplish in their life. Death comes for all of us sometimes when we don't expect it in both D&D and real life. Death is a part of the game I'm not removing it to protect weak people with fragile egos.
@@BX-advocate I was going to point out that it only takes 97,500xp to get a cleric to level 7 in B/E D&D, but . . . come on. I was really hoping your earlier comment was a joke. People die in dumb ways in real life, yes, but that's the reality we're stuck in every day. Fiction can be better than that. The genre's called fantasy. Roleplaying is about choices, which stop when the character dies or retires. Characters who lose possessions, allies, prestige, then go on to make more choices in response. Dead characters just lay there while the rest of the party loot the body.
Oh no, the idea of falling unconscious? Even some games contemporary to B/X didn't have death at 0, and homebrew adding mechanics to work around that rule are some of the earliest and most used to this day in OSR circles. For that matter, you could homebrew the rule you dislike in this to be more in line with what you want. I mean B/X and OSE encourage if not require a degree of homebrew, so that shouldn't be a deal breaker.
Mmmh. So, devil's advocate here: can someone tell me why not simply take the Thorgal series setting and use it in a regular 5e campaign, instead of playing this ? Or use B/X or any other system, if you don't like 5e ? My point being, is the system really truly novator and worth learning ? if not, then it's a proper campaign setting we need, and maybe not yet another new indy game that feels and looks kinda generic, system-wise ?
Alright, I like the idea, but what puts me off is that I have to read up on Viking mythology and culture, which would take days, and being a descendant of a god doesn't have much room for a unique character because, as I think of it, no matter how bad your character's life, they literally cannot fail at anything and were born set for life.
You are not a god according to nordic/viking mythology.
@@AdamWhistle1 you basically are you’re a descendant
@@somerandomguy7325descendant of an alien
@@somerandomguy7325 No, if I understand correctly they are somewhat superhuman, not actually immortal or divine. They die like regular mortals. Remember that the setting actually has literal Norse gods as part of the setting.