Really, what purpose do they serve other than scratching some itch some people have for diesels? I had a 2.8L diesel with a turbo upgrade and tune. It was cool and everything, and got decent MPG, but it wasnt cheaper to operate and made no better torque and way less HP than a similar size GTDI.
@@Jay-me7gw if you don’t mod them they last forever unlike tech. You can’t recycle ev batteries and hybrids depreciate at a much faster rate than ice vehicles. The diesel version of the same vehicles in other countries get way better mpg than gas.
@@leefritchman9643 Thats great, but I dont want a 180 hp diesel truck. Anyone who has ever tried to hook a trailer up to one and pull at a reasonable freeway speed will understand why. If GM wants to start pulling the LZ0 Duramax in mid-sized trucks then Ill change my mind, but the current small diesels in international mid-sized truck are not interesting to me at all.
@@breckboy654 Thats not the end of the story. If it was, then they would be selling them here, wouldn't they? GM wouldnt have dropped the 2.8 Duramax, Ford and Ram wouldnt have dropped their 3.0's, and Toyota would be selling their diesels in the 4Runner, Tacoma and Tundra. But guess what, they did drop them and they arnt selling them! End of story.
Tommy is right, it's mostly a stigma here in the USA. Even when VAG and Merc sold diesel model passenger cars, they did not sell well. The most successful diesel passenger in the USA was probably the 1.9T Golf, which was mostly a small enthusiast following.
The EPA in the states has way higher emissions standards for diesels than in other countries which makes it more expensive for manufacturers to produce diesels, and more expensive for owners to maintain. Additionally the extra emissions garbage drastically reduces fuel economy of diesels.
You think they would have said this. Small diesel is not worth the extra cost and maintenance plus DEF etc. A gasser is better in that weight category. Like an Ecoboost has plenty of power for a half ton without the extra cost. Hauling heavy diesel makes sense you need the torque and better fuel mileage
@@frenchonion4595 As a european (that loves us pickups) a us pickup truck is as heavy as a car doing "heavy" towing. I think a small diesel makes a lot of sense for a truck, it's still much more efficient than a gas engine. And since def you can actually tune a diesel to be more efficient, be less clean and let the exhaust aftertreatment deal with the bad stuff. The tricky part is that new diesels are so powerfull, people start using that power and therefore use more fuel. But per horsepower created modern diesels are the absolute king in efficiency. However, nothing beats a good old v8 gasser!
American emissions regulations are driven by California. Whatever they do, the rest of the country does 5 to 10 years later. California became the strictest emissions venue because of their geography. LA is situated at the edge of a bowl. The prevailing winds blow onshore and compress all of the emissions from cars into the basin over LA, and the sun turns it into smog. The air was brown from the 60s to the 2010s. It's better now. Mexico City has similar geography and looks worse now than LA ever did. This is mostly due to particulate and NOx emissions. Diesels are the worst for those. Limits on these emissions were always tighter in the US than overall emissions. Europe is a big peninsula. The particulate emissions just blow off and disperse. Due to shortages from wars and greedy politicians attaching high taxes to fuel, Europeans have always chased better fuel milage instead of lower emissions. Diesels are more efficient if you don't cork them up too much and let them breathe. The only way to make Diesels as clean as gas cars is to pile on more equipment, increasing their cost while, reducing their performance, and fuel economy until all of their advantage is gone.
Go back and look at any footage of big cities from the 1970s before we started putting "emissions BS" in cars and tell me if you still think it's bs. Fact of the matter is, smog was a huge problem back then and was a reason why cities like LA or NYC had a yellow haze to them if looked at from afar. Plus global warming is real as well and controlling emissions is important.
@@backwoodstherapy CO2 emissions/global warming is completely meaningless when there's far more volatile pollution killing the earth at a much faster rate... i.e. - sedimentary pollution from population overgrowth destroying our waterways and suffocating plant and marine life.
In 1984 I bought a Toyota pick up compact extended cab with a five speed and a diesel. I drove that truck over 200,000 miles no problems to speak of changed a couple glow plugs and serviced it. I was doing sales work and the truck basically ran all day in the winter even if I wasn’t in it. Truck consistently ran 32 to 35 miles per gallon depending on how I drove it at 200,000 miles but I would happily buy another truck like that ran cheap reasonable power and bulletproof
In France, diesel is still slightly less, but both are around $8.00/gallon. Every car I had while in France was a diesel, including my 0.8 liter turbo diesel Smart Car that put out a massive 41 HP.😉
A big part of the reason is emissions, even though everywhere else in the world gets to enjoy the smaller diesel jeeps, trucks and cars. The US keeps pushing emissions stuff farther and farther, which in some things is great but they're Killing the opportunity for more diesels.
An Australian friend of mine says it’s for two reasons. (We talked about this a year ago.) First, small pickups do a bulk of the jobs that say an F-150 would do, (hauling, towing) and the distance between services in a large portion of the country. Gas-powered trucks would never cover the distance so extra economy is needed. Don’t know myself. His words. I’ve never been there. But he owns a diesel Ranger. It’s equipped to haul/tow damn close to what a basic F-150 is here. That would really cut into F-150 sales here, and Ford would never allow such an efficient vehicle to rob sales.
Hi! I just rented a 4 cylinder diesel 4X2 Kia Sorento in Panama. It’s around 200 hp 400 lbs ft, 40 mpg. Sucks not be able to get a 4cyl diesel in the U.S.
Good points made. I think the fact that diesel is on average over $1.00/gal more expensive and the fuel savings may not cover that. I still think they would sell a lot of them. Chevy and Ram have been offering a diesel in their 1500’s and people seem to love them.
I love the range I get on my 2016 2.8 diesel Colorado and diesel 2022 Trail Boss. But like everyone says, the emissions is what's holding everyone back. Driving the heck out of the Colorado with 126k miles on it the only issues I've had with it were emissions related to where it had to be in the shop for weeks waiting on backordered parts. Now that it's out of warranty, I'm wondering if I should remedy any future emission problems since I'm not in a emission regulated county. If you know what I mean.
I had a 2016 Colorado diesel. Also loved the range - averaged 30 mpg (via onboard display) on a road trip from Indiana to Grand Canyon and back. Could drive from my house in Indiana to my parent's house central Maryland w/o having to refuel on the way. I'd buy another one if the right opportunity presented itself. Wish they had kept the diesel for the new 23's.
@@brentworls8509 Yeah I remember reading into that. After that you can't find anybody that does that line of work anymore or advertise it let alone get the parts.
EPA and EPA standards. For instance the diesel Ford focus from the UK that got 40 to 50 miles per gallon was never released here in the US citing emissions
Diesel fuel is significantly more expensive than gasoline in the US, which negates the savings in fuel consumption. Not only that, a diesel engine is an expensive option upfront. Diesel emissions restrictions are very strict, which means adding on costly, complex and heavy emissions systems. This also means higher maintenance costs in the long run. Finally, it doesn't offer the performance gasoline motors do. I'd be willing to bet the 2.3 Ecoboost will run circles around the Aussie diesel Rangers.
Diesels usually have much more torque than a gasoline powered truck, so unless you're taking your pickup to race track, a diesel will outperform a gasoline engine with it's towing capabilities and fuel economy.
Does the 2,3 eco boost produce 500Nm at 1600 revs like the 2.0 bi-turbo diesel. Thats 370 ft lbs. I think the Ecoboost only outputs 310 ft lbs. Anyhow these are trucks and even the diesel in Ranger at 8.2 seconds 0-60 is a license loser if the go-pedal is used in anger.
I was going to buy the diesel Ram Rebel, then I saw the prices of them. Identical trucks with a diesel and a Hemi, the diesel was selling for 10k more and fuel was almost a dollar a gallon more. The main reason diesel trucks dont sell in the US, the dealers think buyers really want them and will pay a premium price, then it backfires and they sit on the lot until they drop the price and offer incentives to sell them. I found the same to be true with the Gladiator, 8k more than a gasoline V6.
Practically *all* SUVs UTEs in Europe are diesels, from tiny Fiats to massive F-450s (except they soon will be EVs). Even my sporty BMW is a diesel, and I just cannot understand what's the fuss with these engines ...
Turns out that particulate matter from diesel exhaust is particularly harmful to our health which is why we have the extensive emission control systems on diesel engines.
Diesel and gas engines in Europe have virtually the same emission standard these days and many gas/petrol direct injection current cars are similarly fitted with very efficient particulate filters. DPF and GDF [diesel and gas particulate filters respectively
@@foxbodyguyeightyeight3672 Particulates are proven to cause cancer in extreme conditions. Back in the 1960’s and 70’s, bus depot staff had an exceptionally high lung cancer incidence. It has not been an issue for a couple of decades now.
@@hedydd2 I've read similar studies but they were all deemed inconclusive due to the high level of known carcinogens that were actually affecting them in their every day. 60's and 70's you still had employees from the 40's and 50's when smoking was most common place. Can you actually say it was conclusive to being caused by the diesel exhaust, I don't think that's fair. Not to mention at that time high likelihood in coming into contact with asbestos which was used as the insulator of choice in every transportation depot would have been extremely high so what do these studies actually show other than a bunch of easily disputable findings.
You know somewhere the automotive companies and the oil companies had some sort of agreement to push gasoline here vs diesel. Maybe economically it was better to export it to Europe.
Wrong back during the oil embargo when Carter was President Gas was more a diesel was cheaper we had a diesel VW rabbit that got 50 miles to the gallon.
Because when you pay the extra $1 per gallon for diesel and the extra money for EPA required "exhaust fluid", and the added expense of diesel oil changes the added expense more than offset the extra mpg's you get from using diesel and it becomes more expensive than runing gasoline engines...
Small diesels have a LOT of problems. For example dpf, egr and fuel system problems made small diesels a nightmare. I am from Europe and the only reason that here sold small trucks with diesel engine is that the gas prices are higher than diesel..😢
I recall something about a difference with the way Europe calculated diesel mpg or particulates vs the US, and the small diesels didn’t meet US requirements
Trying to make my 92 s10 that has 60k miles on it one owner and swap a om606 in it. Just not a mercedes mechanic so hard to figure out who i would work on it and what not idk what diesel would even fit in it
in many countries like here in vietnam. they have size restrictions. if a engine is over 3 liters its 100 percent taxed. so colorados where getting 2.8 and the new 2.5 durimax, plus diesel is cheaper than gas here, and we dont run the blue def fliud
The auto mafia blocked the mahindra Bolero from being imported. A 2.2 l 4 cylinder diesel with 300lb ft, 30 mpg, 4x4 or 4x2. $13,000 price tag. Instead we have overkill pavement queens mainly hauling egos. That's the way it is here in Dumberica. Also we dont have a balanced transportation system it's way too car centric. People who buy pickups mostly never use them for hauling anything.
CARB & EPA short sighted focus on emissions, instead of consumption reduction, is another reason small diesel's do not get a chance in North America. Additionally, increasing the cetane value in our diesel, would eliminate the need for DEF fluids.
That's why we're putting 10% corn in gas in the winter months, only to get 10% lower fuel economy. We're still burning the same total of gasoline per mile. But the powerful Monsanto corn lobby is happy, and we're one of the few developed countries still allowing GMO corn.
Roman, almost all diesels that are not built for the big 3 do not meet USA EPA regulations and emissions, surprising enough in Australia the standards are higher and they allow them there
Another factor impacting diesels in the US has been the emissions requirements. In Europe for many years there were different requirements for gas and diesel engines. In the US our regulations are essentially the same for gas and diesel, which is expensive to achieve and greatly reduces the efficiency advantage that diesels used to have. This is especially true for smaller diesels. The way it stands today a hybrid gasoline system is more efficient and is likely less expensive than a diesel suffering under the current emissions scheme.
Wonderful EPA restrictions don’t make it worth while for manufacturers to provide them in the us. It would drive the cost up substantially, and there is not a large enough market for $65k+ midsize trucks.
Maybe 30 years ago, i can be in the snow one weekend and in the desert the following and our diesels have no issue, also the service intervals are far apart, really cheap to run these days .
Yeah, I remember when in the early 2000’s in California diesel used to be between $0.75 - $1.50 cheaper than gas, per gallon. Then they added those new emissions standards, and added a bunch more taxes…
I'd say between the cost of fuel, emissions and the fact most Americans use their truck as a commuter rather than a truck. Add to the fact it seems no oems will put the effort to build a small diesel, they tend to outsource and discard after a few years due to either demand or lack of reliability. Ram has tried, Ford has tried, Nissan and now GM... With the terrible fuel we have and the high cost of repairs, owning diesels for personal use isn't really a great idea. Unless it's strictly used under a business or an individual has money to repair it's really nothing to own.
Here in Australia brought Nissan D40 with diesel engine 8 years ago at that time the price of diesel was cheaper then petrol. Plus you can find diesel easily out in rural areas as there no taxes like red or white diesel like in UK. Today unfortunately diesel is much expensive n wouldn’t mind having choice for petrol engine but most of car manufacturers don’t petrol option.
It is because the emissions equipment needed to make them meet emissions requirements of each state is too large and expensive. Also Americans prefer horse power over torque. US also fines manufacturers based on emissions per vehicle size.
Good day from Ontario Canada Way to much money around, they need speed & power to get to the red light 1 car ahead of you. Gas is not high enough for some people I have 6 cyl gmc 1500, speed limit up here on main roads is 50 mph, & when they pass they said I am #1. Thanks Thanks
I have a 2017 Chevy Cruze with the 1.6 liter turbo diesel and 6 speed manual transmission. It's rated 52 mpg on the highway but if you keep your foot out if it you can get far better fuel economy than that.
Because it they make less power and similar torque to a modern GTDI while costing significantly more upfront and more at the pump so that any mpg improvement is a wash. We also have lots of high speed freeways and, in the west, lots of big climbs and elevation. Small displacement diesels are low on power and so towing at freeway speeds pushes them extremely hard.
1 fuel is expensive, 2 here in Italy there is a annual tax based on how much HP the vehicle has So with diesel You have a both economy and performance with a lot of torque and less horsepower. But this trend is changing
@@josephmcclary9667 Electric cars don't pay this tax as an incentive. Hybrids don't pay for 3 years. If you have a 300hp ice car you pay about 1000€ a year 😥
We had a ‘16 Duramax Colorado and now a ‘22 version. Great economy, tows and hauls well for its size. The emissions equipment and EPA regulations that require gas and diesel passenger vehicles to meet the same emissions requirements is what really makes diesels hard to palate in the states. The complicated emissions systems add a lot of cost and potential reliability issues. That being said we have had great luck with ours. No issues with starting in sub zero weather and having a farm in a rural area of the northern US we see 32-35mpg daily in summer blend diesel, 30-31 on winter. And that’s with a small lift and the air dam removed. Our stock 2016 would see 35-36 regularly. It tows effortlessly, gets good economy and we enjoy the character of it out in the backcountry. I have gotten to drive diesel Hiluxes, Chevy Colorado variations, and Ford Ranger’s in other parts of world for work travel and I just love them.
There's zero chance you're getting that mileage unless you're tuned and probably deleted.. You're so far beyond the EPA ratings it's laughable. I had a 2018 diesel ZR2 that I sold this year. The best I ever got in it was 22 mpg.
@@quintili1 I am 100% getting those numbers and it’s not a ZR2, this one is a z71 short bed and the previous one was a long bed, crew LT. We live in the middle of nowhere and aren’t close to any freeways so mostly just rural two lane roads. Freeway speeds those numbers definitely dip. Two lane rural roads all the time.
I my part of Europe diesel fuel may be taxed less, but you have higher tax on the vehicle instead and for a number of years now the fuel hasn't really been cheaper either, last 1-2 year even considerably more expensive. And they are not exactly without exhaust regulation either like some here seems to imply. Still they are pretty common in all types of cars
I hate that the US manufacturers only make the diesel an option on loaded trucks with a ton of required options. If they sold the diesel on base trucks with vinyl floors and bench seats they’d sell a lot more.
You can get a Cummins diesel in an entry level Ram Tradesman. However, ticking the diesel box adds $9595 to the cost, so it isn't something to be done lightly for anyone that doesn't plan on serious towing.
Emissions have ruined diesels in the US. With egr and def diesels end up having less efficiency and more issues as well as being more costly to repair. I work at a gas station and I always ask the people who have eco diesel rams or other small diesel engine vehicles what they think of their vehicles motors and it's all the same "if anything breaks after warranty I'm getting the emissions deleted" and those emission deleted vehicles get amazing MPG. Volkswagen proved that back in 2015 and I know several people who still have those VWs and wouldn't trade them for anything because they get amazing fuel economy.
It's now taxed way more and has been for a number of years. They put the tax up when diesel became more sought-after than petrol. Money-robbing politicians as usual. At the minute, petrol is 20p a litre cheaper than diesel. That's what we're seeing in Central Scotland anyway. Cheers!
Diesel is a much more stable fuel and the processing plant is "cheaper". Diesel is refined directly from crude oil. Gasoline is a man-made fuel and "cheaper" in the US because of government subsidies. Diesel is a better fuel BTW.
1-There is a bad stigma about diesel being dirty in America (VW scandal certainly didn't help). 2-US emissions standards on diesels are insane, which leads to higher unreliability compared to diesels of old and also high repair/maintenance costs. 3-Diesel fuel costs significantly more in USA so even with the better MPG, the price works out to about the same, negating a big advantage of diesel.
@@rev9fan1 The price difference between diesel and regular gasoline is greater in the USA than Europe, not that it costs more per gallon/liter than Europe. USA national average is $3.44/gallon for gasoline and $5.01/gallon for diesel...meaning diesel costs 31% more in the USA than gasoline. On vehicles with both diesel and gasoline engine options, the MPG difference is not greater than 31%. That's my point. Whereas in Europe, diesel is pretty much the exact same price as gasoline...even cheaper in many countries, so it makes sense to have diesel because you get better MPG for same price of fuel.
So what is your answer TFL? 2 cents: 1- diesel here has been way more expensive; 2 - very expensive to bring one to market; 3 - no interest whatsoever from manufacturers; 4 - too late in the game, all about electric now. If anything, jeep should've offered one decades ago....
That’s easy. Do the math between getting 30mpg and paying $4.50 for diesel and getting 22 and paying $3 for gas. Top it off with sluggish response, ridiculous emissions regulations and expensive repairs on diesels and there’s why majority of people don’t want one
They were known as absolute junk years ago and alot of older diesel engines were NA and underpowered. So for that reason, decades of bad publicity were breed Into generations not wanting them.
Diesel in Europe is not taxless! But it is taxed less, because in the 70s/80s gouvernments thought it was better for the environnment than having petrol cars
Fuel mileage standards for a small truck would be so high it's not feasible. They want us to use up our resources faster so they force us to go to electric sooner, so go enjoy that 10mpg brodozer.
The obvious reason is because fuel has always been way cheaper here than in most other parts of the globe, so mpg has never mattered as much as horsepower and comfort to those that can afford new vehicles... and also diesels have historically been loud, slow, and smelly
Our government doesn’t want them here
Really, what purpose do they serve other than scratching some itch some people have for diesels? I had a 2.8L diesel with a turbo upgrade and tune. It was cool and everything, and got decent MPG, but it wasnt cheaper to operate and made no better torque and way less HP than a similar size GTDI.
@@Jay-me7gw if you don’t mod them they last forever unlike tech. You can’t recycle ev batteries and hybrids depreciate at a much faster rate than ice vehicles. The diesel version of the same vehicles in other countries get way better mpg than gas.
@@leefritchman9643 Thats great, but I dont want a 180 hp diesel truck. Anyone who has ever tried to hook a trailer up to one and pull at a reasonable freeway speed will understand why.
If GM wants to start pulling the LZ0 Duramax in mid-sized trucks then Ill change my mind, but the current small diesels in international mid-sized truck are not interesting to me at all.
@@Jay-me7gw they are incredibly efficient and reliable that’s why end of story
@@breckboy654 Thats not the end of the story. If it was, then they would be selling them here, wouldn't they? GM wouldnt have dropped the 2.8 Duramax, Ford and Ram wouldnt have dropped their 3.0's, and Toyota would be selling their diesels in the 4Runner, Tacoma and Tundra.
But guess what, they did drop them and they arnt selling them! End of story.
Never understood why America doesn’t get more diesel cars
They need Diesel for their Military
Tommy is right, it's mostly a stigma here in the USA. Even when VAG and Merc sold diesel model passenger cars, they did not sell well. The most successful diesel passenger in the USA was probably the 1.9T Golf, which was mostly a small enthusiast following.
Because the environmental regulations on diesel engines make running diesel engines much more expensive.
Treasonous liberals...
The EPA...
The EPA in the states has way higher emissions standards for diesels than in other countries which makes it more expensive for manufacturers to produce diesels, and more expensive for owners to maintain. Additionally the extra emissions garbage drastically reduces fuel economy of diesels.
That used to be the case, but the EU is now similar. Thanks to VW and their diesel bullshit.
You think they would have said this. Small diesel is not worth the extra cost and maintenance plus DEF etc. A gasser is better in that weight category. Like an Ecoboost has plenty of power for a half ton without the extra cost. Hauling heavy diesel makes sense you need the torque and better fuel mileage
Euro 6 emissions in Europe are just as strict, if not stricter, than that of the EPA regulations in the US.
@@frenchonion4595 As a european (that loves us pickups) a us pickup truck is as heavy as a car doing "heavy" towing. I think a small diesel makes a lot of sense for a truck, it's still much more efficient than a gas engine.
And since def you can actually tune a diesel to be more efficient, be less clean and let the exhaust aftertreatment deal with the bad stuff. The tricky part is that new diesels are so powerfull, people start using that power and therefore use more fuel. But per horsepower created modern diesels are the absolute king in efficiency.
However, nothing beats a good old v8 gasser!
American emissions regulations are driven by California. Whatever they do, the rest of the country does 5 to 10 years later. California became the strictest emissions venue because of their geography. LA is situated at the edge of a bowl. The prevailing winds blow onshore and compress all of the emissions from cars into the basin over LA, and the sun turns it into smog. The air was brown from the 60s to the 2010s. It's better now. Mexico City has similar geography and looks worse now than LA ever did. This is mostly due to particulate and NOx emissions. Diesels are the worst for those. Limits on these emissions were always tighter in the US than overall emissions. Europe is a big peninsula. The particulate emissions just blow off and disperse. Due to shortages from wars and greedy politicians attaching high taxes to fuel, Europeans have always chased better fuel milage instead of lower emissions. Diesels are more efficient if you don't cork them up too much and let them breathe. The only way to make Diesels as clean as gas cars is to pile on more equipment, increasing their cost while, reducing their performance, and fuel economy until all of their advantage is gone.
I love my 2.8L Colorado.
I really wanted to grab one but had an Amazing surprise our third child haha so thier went that
Diesel costs way more here now.
The motors cost more to produce and maintain because of all of the emission BS we put on the trucks.
Go back and look at any footage of big cities from the 1970s before we started putting "emissions BS" in cars and tell me if you still think it's bs. Fact of the matter is, smog was a huge problem back then and was a reason why cities like LA or NYC had a yellow haze to them if looked at from afar. Plus global warming is real as well and controlling emissions is important.
@@backwoodstherapy you mad bro?!
@@backwoodstherapy CO2 emissions/global warming is completely meaningless when there's far more volatile pollution killing the earth at a much faster rate... i.e. - sedimentary pollution from population overgrowth destroying our waterways and suffocating plant and marine life.
@@backwoodstherapy Maybe because most of our cities had MUCH larger populations before 1970...
@@backwoodstherapy Well, in the 1970's we has the fear of global cooling. Apparently the smog was actually keeping earth cooler.
I feel like you two are vacationing in Florida/California and wanting to write it off... 🤣
Do ya blame them 😂
I have a 2022 isuzu dmax with the 1.9 turbo diesel. I average 29mpg. With power. Ultimate truck
In 1984 I bought a Toyota pick up compact extended cab with a five speed and a diesel. I drove that truck over 200,000 miles no problems to speak of changed a couple glow plugs and serviced it. I was doing sales work and the truck basically ran all day in the winter even if I wasn’t in it. Truck consistently ran 32 to 35 miles per gallon depending on how I drove it at 200,000 miles but I would happily buy another truck like that ran cheap reasonable power and bulletproof
Diesel is so efficient. Bummer the epa killed them
In France, diesel is still slightly less, but both are around $8.00/gallon. Every car I had while in France was a diesel, including my 0.8 liter turbo diesel Smart Car that put out a massive 41 HP.😉
Europe is literally in a historical energy crisis and their cost of diesel is proof
I bet you averaged like 50mpg, its usually comparable to cost per mile here with the averages of the crap cars here
@@lonerider5315 I averaged 48.6 MPG (4.84 liters/100 Km) over 50K miles. (I kept a spreadsheet.)
@@JohnPMiller jesus that's impressive, and ya, that's about double average mpg here
A big part of the reason is emissions, even though everywhere else in the world gets to enjoy the smaller diesel jeeps, trucks and cars. The US keeps pushing emissions stuff farther and farther, which in some things is great but they're Killing the opportunity for more diesels.
I have the Gladiator with the 3.0l Diesel and it’s great, no issues other than stupid high pump prices.
Emissions are even stricter with Euro 6
Even before the emissions Americans weren't buying diesels
@@seanthe100 everywhere elsr buying them in droves
@@robertryan7204 yeah but not the US literally the most profitable country for automakers
An Australian friend of mine says it’s for two reasons. (We talked about this a year ago.) First, small pickups do a bulk of the jobs that say an F-150 would do, (hauling, towing) and the distance between services in a large portion of the country. Gas-powered trucks would never cover the distance so extra economy is needed. Don’t know myself. His words. I’ve never been there. But he owns a diesel Ranger. It’s equipped to haul/tow damn close to what a basic F-150 is here. That would really cut into F-150 sales here, and Ford would never allow such an efficient vehicle to rob sales.
Exactly and that is why US full size Oickups have a hard time here
In Australia the Ranger/Hilux have higher capacity leaf springs than the US Ranger and Tacoma. Their payload is higher than many half-tons.
Plus these " workhorses" are becoming quite luxurious with more expensive models. Payload goes down but ride and luxury inprove
Forgot to mention, I currently own a 3ltr diesel VW Amarok, returns 9ltrs/100klms or 2.378 gallons per 62 miles. At $8 a gallon for diesel
Hi! I just rented a 4 cylinder diesel 4X2 Kia Sorento in Panama. It’s around 200 hp 400 lbs ft, 40 mpg. Sucks not be able to get a 4cyl diesel in the U.S.
I had one of those in 4x4 form with DPF and DEF/Adblue until last November. Awesome car and an equal to my previous Volvo XC90 D5 in every way.
Good points made. I think the fact that diesel is on average over $1.00/gal more expensive and the fuel savings may not cover that. I still think they would sell a lot of them. Chevy and Ram have been offering a diesel in their 1500’s and people seem to love them.
I saw a diesel Colorado yesterday, hate the truck but thought that was awesome
I love the range I get on my 2016 2.8 diesel Colorado and diesel 2022 Trail Boss. But like everyone says, the emissions is what's holding everyone back. Driving the heck out of the Colorado with 126k miles on it the only issues I've had with it were emissions related to where it had to be in the shop for weeks waiting on backordered parts. Now that it's out of warranty, I'm wondering if I should remedy any future emission problems since I'm not in a emission regulated county. If you know what I mean.
I had a 2016 Colorado diesel. Also loved the range - averaged 30 mpg (via onboard display) on a road trip from Indiana to Grand Canyon and back. Could drive from my house in Indiana to my parent's house central Maryland w/o having to refuel on the way. I'd buy another one if the right opportunity presented itself. Wish they had kept the diesel for the new 23's.
The EPA can still come after individuals, ask The Diesel Brothers what litigation they've been subjected to by our own government.
@@brentworls8509 Yeah I remember reading into that. After that you can't find anybody that does that line of work anymore or advertise it let alone get the parts.
@@lab1042 agreed, the 2023s look sick. The Colorado is perfect for my 500 mile to or from work trip every two weeks
Needs to go on diet 🤣
EPA and EPA standards. For instance the diesel Ford focus from the UK that got 40 to 50 miles per gallon was never released here in the US citing emissions
Diesel fuel is significantly more expensive than gasoline in the US, which negates the savings in fuel consumption. Not only that, a diesel engine is an expensive option upfront. Diesel emissions restrictions are very strict, which means adding on costly, complex and heavy emissions systems. This also means higher maintenance costs in the long run. Finally, it doesn't offer the performance gasoline motors do. I'd be willing to bet the 2.3 Ecoboost will run circles around the Aussie diesel Rangers.
Diesels usually have much more torque than a gasoline powered truck, so unless you're taking your pickup to race track, a diesel will outperform a gasoline engine with it's towing capabilities and fuel economy.
The diesel will outperform the Ecoboost in all applications other than when fully unladen.
They have more torque which is useful. When fuel cost goes down they become better with their fuel economy. Also likelyhood of more durable engines
Does the 2,3 eco boost produce 500Nm at 1600 revs like the 2.0 bi-turbo diesel. Thats 370 ft lbs. I think the Ecoboost only outputs 310 ft lbs. Anyhow these are trucks and even the diesel in Ranger at 8.2 seconds 0-60 is a license loser if the go-pedal is used in anger.
I was going to buy the diesel Ram Rebel, then I saw the prices of them. Identical trucks with a diesel and a Hemi, the diesel was selling for 10k more and fuel was almost a dollar a gallon more. The main reason diesel trucks dont sell in the US, the dealers think buyers really want them and will pay a premium price, then it backfires and they sit on the lot until they drop the price and offer incentives to sell them. I found the same to be true with the Gladiator, 8k more than a gasoline V6.
Practically *all* SUVs UTEs in Europe are diesels, from tiny Fiats to massive F-450s (except they soon will be EVs). Even my sporty BMW is a diesel, and I just cannot understand what's the fuss with these engines ...
You’d be surprised how many people want them here haha, but I agree with a lot of the comments that say the government doesn’t want them here
Turns out that particulate matter from diesel exhaust is particularly harmful to our health which is why we have the extensive emission control systems on diesel engines.
It's actually not and has never been 100 percent proven to cause cancer
Diesel and gas engines in Europe have virtually the same emission standard these days and many gas/petrol direct injection current cars are similarly fitted with very efficient particulate filters. DPF and GDF [diesel and gas particulate filters respectively
@@foxbodyguyeightyeight3672 Particulates are proven to cause cancer in extreme conditions. Back in the 1960’s and 70’s, bus depot staff had an exceptionally high lung cancer incidence. It has not been an issue for a couple of decades now.
@@hedydd2 I've read similar studies but they were all deemed inconclusive due to the high level of known carcinogens that were actually affecting them in their every day. 60's and 70's you still had employees from the 40's and 50's when smoking was most common place. Can you actually say it was conclusive to being caused by the diesel exhaust, I don't think that's fair. Not to mention at that time high likelihood in coming into contact with asbestos which was used as the insulator of choice in every transportation depot would have been extremely high so what do these studies actually show other than a bunch of easily disputable findings.
Here in Brazil only diesel pickups have good market.
You are lucky to have cognitive leadership 🤙🏻😎
You know somewhere the automotive companies and the oil companies had some sort of agreement to push gasoline here vs diesel. Maybe economically it was better to export it to Europe.
Thanks for answering my question guys - really cool!
Wrong back during the oil embargo when Carter was President Gas was more a diesel was cheaper we had a diesel VW rabbit that got 50 miles to the gallon.
Because when you pay the extra $1 per gallon for diesel and the extra money for EPA required "exhaust fluid", and the added expense of diesel oil changes the added expense more than offset the extra mpg's you get from using diesel and it becomes more expensive than runing gasoline engines...
I hope that the new ranger gets the 3.0 power stroke.
Small diesels have a LOT of problems. For example dpf, egr and fuel system problems made small diesels a nightmare. I am from Europe and the only reason that here sold small trucks with diesel engine is that the gas prices are higher than diesel..😢
I recall something about a difference with the way Europe calculated diesel mpg or particulates vs the US, and the small diesels didn’t meet US requirements
It's a damn shame, I would love to have a diesel tundra, hilux/tacoma, and a diesel kei truck.
Bring the small diesel trucks to America. We WILL BUY THEM!
No we won't 😂😂 hence why they haven't been brought here people always claim "we need it in the US" yet when it comes no one buys it.
I would absolutely love to see toyota bring the hilux and the LC to the states. I think there would be a wonderful following for that.
Trying to make my 92 s10 that has 60k miles on it one owner and swap a om606 in it. Just not a mercedes mechanic so hard to figure out who i would work on it and what not idk what diesel would even fit in it
in many countries like here in vietnam. they have size restrictions. if a engine is over 3 liters its 100 percent taxed. so colorados where getting 2.8 and the new 2.5 durimax, plus diesel is cheaper than gas here, and we dont run the blue def fliud
The auto mafia blocked the mahindra Bolero from being imported. A 2.2 l 4 cylinder diesel with 300lb ft, 30 mpg, 4x4 or 4x2. $13,000 price tag. Instead we have overkill pavement queens mainly hauling egos. That's the way it is here in Dumberica. Also we dont have a balanced transportation system it's way too car centric. People who buy pickups mostly never use them for hauling anything.
"Dumberica" because we didn't allow some third world pile of shit SUV into our markets. Lol
Trucks aside. Ford had several new vehicles that not only run as diesels, but are hybrid AND available with a manual! Crazy stuff.
CARB & EPA short sighted focus on emissions, instead of consumption reduction, is another reason small diesel's do not get a chance in North America. Additionally, increasing the cetane value in our diesel, would eliminate the need for DEF fluids.
That's why we're putting 10% corn in gas in the winter months, only to get 10% lower fuel economy. We're still burning the same total of gasoline per mile. But the powerful Monsanto corn lobby is happy, and we're one of the few developed countries still allowing GMO corn.
3.0L GM has been out for years now and very popular !
Where I live in Florida gas is $3 a gallon and diesel is $4.70 a gallon
The stigma is diesels kick ass
Jeep Gladiator comes in a diesel. Isn’t that a small pickup? It is the same class as a Ranger, is it not?
Thanks!
Roman, almost all diesels that are not built for the big 3 do not meet USA EPA regulations and emissions, surprising enough in Australia the standards are higher and they allow them there
In the UK diesel is 20 p per litre more expensive but no petrol option is offered by any manufacturer in a pickup.
Here in Europe Diesel became more expensive. In some cases it's more expensive than regular now.
Another factor impacting diesels in the US has been the emissions requirements. In Europe for many years there were different requirements for gas and diesel engines. In the US our regulations are essentially the same for gas and diesel, which is expensive to achieve and greatly reduces the efficiency advantage that diesels used to have. This is especially true for smaller diesels. The way it stands today a hybrid gasoline system is more efficient and is likely less expensive than a diesel suffering under the current emissions scheme.
I used to drive a 2005 diesel smart CDI fortwo had it for about 9 years 70mpg from Iowa
because we want a clear breathable air quality. yes diesel has less CO2 emissions, but more arsenic pollutants.
So glad I have a mid size diesel!
Wonderful EPA restrictions don’t make it worth while for manufacturers to provide them in the us. It would drive the cost up substantially, and there is not a large enough market for $65k+ midsize trucks.
They’re heavier, more expensive to maintenance, and don’t like cold temps
With modern glow plugs and grid heaters the cold thing isn't really a factor anymore.
Maybe 30 years ago, i can be in the snow one weekend and in the desert the following and our diesels have no issue, also the service intervals are far apart, really cheap to run these days .
The cost of the diesel option out weights the benefit.
Diesel used to be cheaper than Gas, but it never was taxless in Europe
I believe he said "taxed less" and not taxless.
@@LX450_Adventure That makes a lot of sense (English is not my first language) Although I think is was not taxed less, just cheaper (not 100% sure)
CARb regulations(which are being phased in across the country) make it harder and harder for diesel to pass emissions testing...
Because they mark them up to 45+K when they do bring them. And then you may as well get the bigger one. Also it's cold.
i been preaching about small displacement diesels since 2005 i never understood why diesel is less popular. better longevity and MPG and power.
Back in the day the Ford Ranger was available with a diesel in the US.
Yeah, I remember when in the early 2000’s in California diesel used to be between $0.75 - $1.50 cheaper than gas, per gallon. Then they added those new emissions standards, and added a bunch more taxes…
I'd say between the cost of fuel, emissions and the fact most Americans use their truck as a commuter rather than a truck.
Add to the fact it seems no oems will put the effort to build a small diesel, they tend to outsource and discard after a few years due to either demand or lack of reliability. Ram has tried, Ford has tried, Nissan and now GM...
With the terrible fuel we have and the high cost of repairs, owning diesels for personal use isn't really a great idea. Unless it's strictly used under a business or an individual has money to repair it's really nothing to own.
Here in Australia brought Nissan D40 with diesel engine 8 years ago at that time the price of diesel was cheaper then petrol. Plus you can find diesel easily out in rural areas as there no taxes like red or white diesel like in UK. Today unfortunately diesel is much expensive n wouldn’t mind having choice for petrol engine but most of car manufacturers don’t petrol option.
Chevy Colorado has a diesel version in the states. One example obviously doesn’t make the rule but it’s there.
It is because the emissions equipment needed to make them meet emissions requirements of each state is too large and expensive. Also Americans prefer horse power over torque. US also fines manufacturers based on emissions per vehicle size.
Good day from Ontario Canada
Way to much money around, they need speed & power to get to the red light 1 car ahead of you.
Gas is not high enough for some people
I have 6 cyl gmc 1500, speed limit up here on main roads is 50 mph, & when they pass they said I am
#1. Thanks Thanks
Congress outlawed them way back when. I had a ford ranger diesel. 1981, I think.
I have a 2017 Chevy Cruze with the 1.6 liter turbo diesel and 6 speed manual transmission. It's rated 52 mpg on the highway but if you keep your foot out if it you can get far better fuel economy than that.
Small diesels are done in the US with the new epa regs coming down and California banning them
It's Gubmint...Gubmint...Gubmint...
Because it they make less power and similar torque to a modern GTDI while costing significantly more upfront and more at the pump so that any mpg improvement is a wash.
We also have lots of high speed freeways and, in the west, lots of big climbs and elevation. Small displacement diesels are low on power and so towing at freeway speeds pushes them extremely hard.
1 fuel is expensive,
2 here in Italy there is a annual tax based on how much HP the vehicle has
So with diesel You have a both economy and performance with a lot of torque and less horsepower.
But this trend is changing
So if you have a Tesla Plaid you’re getting hosed with taxes?
@@josephmcclary9667 Electric cars don't pay this tax as an incentive. Hybrids don't pay for 3 years. If you have a 300hp ice car you pay about 1000€ a year 😥
Wait wtf they tax horsepower in Italy?
@@seanthe100 it's a ownership tax based on horsepower. There's even a super tax to add over 250hp.
The question referred to Ranger in Australia and your response was for Europe.
Manufacturers want to force you into a bigger payment
Diesel + DPF= Problems ?
No thanks.
We had a ‘16 Duramax Colorado and now a ‘22 version. Great economy, tows and hauls well for its size. The emissions equipment and EPA regulations that require gas and diesel passenger vehicles to meet the same emissions requirements is what really makes diesels hard to palate in the states. The complicated emissions systems add a lot of cost and potential reliability issues. That being said we have had great luck with ours. No issues with starting in sub zero weather and having a farm in a rural area of the northern US we see 32-35mpg daily in summer blend diesel, 30-31 on winter. And that’s with a small lift and the air dam removed. Our stock 2016 would see 35-36 regularly. It tows effortlessly, gets good economy and we enjoy the character of it out in the backcountry. I have gotten to drive diesel Hiluxes, Chevy Colorado variations, and Ford Ranger’s in other parts of world for work travel and I just love them.
There's zero chance you're getting that mileage unless you're tuned and probably deleted.. You're so far beyond the EPA ratings it's laughable. I had a 2018 diesel ZR2 that I sold this year. The best I ever got in it was 22 mpg.
@@quintili1 I am 100% getting those numbers and it’s not a ZR2, this one is a z71 short bed and the previous one was a long bed, crew LT. We live in the middle of nowhere and aren’t close to any freeways so mostly just rural two lane roads. Freeway speeds those numbers definitely dip. Two lane rural roads all the time.
I my part of Europe diesel fuel may be taxed less, but you have higher tax on the vehicle instead and for a number of years now the fuel hasn't really been cheaper either, last 1-2 year even considerably more expensive.
And they are not exactly without exhaust regulation either like some here seems to imply.
Still they are pretty common in all types of cars
Diesel is not taxed less. But the fact that gasoline engines use 50% more fuel is quite a large reason why diesel engines is more popular.
Gen 2 Colorado and canyon had a fantastic diesel engine but they killed it off
I hate that the US manufacturers only make the diesel an option on loaded trucks with a ton of required options. If they sold the diesel on base trucks with vinyl floors and bench seats they’d sell a lot more.
You can get a Cummins diesel in an entry level Ram Tradesman. However, ticking the diesel box adds $9595 to the cost, so it isn't something to be done lightly for anyone that doesn't plan on serious towing.
Emissions have ruined diesels in the US. With egr and def diesels end up having less efficiency and more issues as well as being more costly to repair. I work at a gas station and I always ask the people who have eco diesel rams or other small diesel engine vehicles what they think of their vehicles motors and it's all the same "if anything breaks after warranty I'm getting the emissions deleted" and those emission deleted vehicles get amazing MPG. Volkswagen proved that back in 2015 and I know several people who still have those VWs and wouldn't trade them for anything because they get amazing fuel economy.
As far as Australia also a lot of parts of that country you can’t even get gasoline it’s diesel only
It's now taxed way more and has been for a number of years. They put the tax up when diesel became more sought-after than petrol. Money-robbing politicians as usual. At the minute, petrol is 20p a litre cheaper than diesel. That's what we're seeing in Central Scotland anyway. Cheers!
"In Australia..."
"Yeah, in Europe...."
Diesel is cheaper everywhere. In India Tata makes a 3 cylinder diesel hatchback car. Incredibly efficient.
I still wish Dodge put the 4bt into the 1st Gen Dakota in front of the NV4500... Would have been epic.
Diesel is a much more stable fuel and the processing plant is "cheaper". Diesel is refined directly from crude oil. Gasoline is a man-made fuel and "cheaper" in the US because of government subsidies. Diesel is a better fuel BTW.
1-There is a bad stigma about diesel being dirty in America (VW scandal certainly didn't help).
2-US emissions standards on diesels are insane, which leads to higher unreliability compared to diesels of old and also high repair/maintenance costs.
3-Diesel fuel costs significantly more in USA so even with the better MPG, the price works out to about the same, negating a big advantage of diesel.
Euro 6 is actually stricter thanbthe US regulations
What, in Europe diesel is 1.81 per liter, that's 8 dollars a gallon equivalent here...
@@rev9fan1 The price difference between diesel and regular gasoline is greater in the USA than Europe, not that it costs more per gallon/liter than Europe. USA national average is $3.44/gallon for gasoline and $5.01/gallon for diesel...meaning diesel costs 31% more in the USA than gasoline. On vehicles with both diesel and gasoline engine options, the MPG difference is not greater than 31%. That's my point. Whereas in Europe, diesel is pretty much the exact same price as gasoline...even cheaper in many countries, so it makes sense to have diesel because you get better MPG for same price of fuel.
@@cup_and_cone ah I see what you were saying, yes that's true!
So what is your answer TFL?
2 cents: 1- diesel here has been way more expensive; 2 - very expensive to bring one to market; 3 - no interest whatsoever from manufacturers; 4 - too late in the game, all about electric now. If anything, jeep should've offered one decades ago....
Diesel used to be much cheaper in the states...back when I stuck dollar bills in the pump.
There are several small diesel pickups in mexico as well.
Our government sucks, booyah 👊🏽😁👍🏽🇺🇸 bring the diesel ⛽️
That’s easy. Do the math between getting 30mpg and paying $4.50 for diesel and getting 22 and paying $3 for gas. Top it off with sluggish response, ridiculous emissions regulations and expensive repairs on diesels and there’s why majority of people don’t want one
They were known as absolute junk years ago and alot of older diesel engines were NA and underpowered. So for that reason, decades of bad publicity were breed Into generations not wanting them.
May not be a lot of people left that remember an Oldsmobile diesel unless their grandfather was driving one...
Something to do with emotion standards? Low demand due to diesel costing more than gas. Not as available as gas.
Diesel in Europe is not taxless! But it is taxed less, because in the 70s/80s gouvernments thought it was better for the environnment than having petrol cars
I would say cost of engine and DEF, and gelling from winter, also too slow. Winter in Michigan is better for gasoline then it is for Diesel.
Fuel mileage standards for a small truck would be so high it's not feasible.
They want us to use up our resources faster so they force us to go to electric sooner, so go enjoy that 10mpg brodozer.
The obvious reason is because fuel has always been way cheaper here than in most other parts of the globe, so mpg has never mattered as much as horsepower and comfort to those that can afford new vehicles... and also diesels have historically been loud, slow, and smelly
also the ridiculous premium you pay for a diesel engine in North America.. coupled with DEF costs etc.. not worth it
Its about control, the more you are able to be independent of the government the more they want it all back.
Diesel is not taxless, but lower taxes than gas, at least in Germany