Will There Be Borders in Space?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- With more and more nations and private companies getting to space every year, what might our interplanetary future /realistically/ look like?
Check out The Beardy Penguin's Companion video on Helium-3!
• You're Wrong About Nuc...
MUSIC:
“What Lurks Below” by Jon Björk
“Rubik’s Cube” by From Now On
“Antidote X” by Van Sandano
“Clearer Views” by From Now On
“Temple of Runha” by ELFL
“Message Through Space” by Experia
(All via EpidemicSound)
0:00 Intro
0:33 Economics of the Solar System
6:35 Politics of the Solar System
13:30 Overly profound conclusion
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It was great fun working with you on this, thanks so much for the opportunity.
Hi.
No fucking way
Was that the nemesis base? I have to watch endurance again.
Cool seeing you here. When are you going to go to mars yourself on For All Kerbalkind? Looking forward to that mission be it collaborative or competitive, its going to be awesome!
larguest colonies by land area
colony of armstrong
new beijing
Tsukuyomi prefecture
mittelForschungsErkundungszone
vishal state
gagaringrad military zone
ducado de dummond
mushkegowuk state
joko
queensland
sarah colony
KOLUTaD
al-alsuhul alsamawia emirate
salman territory
zheng he military territory
adesida mining area
Tonatiuh colony
orange area
new tasmania
iranian space program
attatürk province
el olimpo
shaheen research zone
aguinaldo research area
alexandropolis zone
raïs hamidou mining territory
mattew colony
EAURZ
The EU should get Europa, just to avoid any confusions.
No need for a Georgia situation
And Latvia specifically should get asteroid 1248 Latvia
In some languages like german for example, the continent europe is even called "Europa" as well. But on the other side, the country Georgia is called Georgien in german while the US state is still Georgia, so atleast there the confusion is avoided. I wonder what inhabitants of the Jupiter moon Europa would be called, europeans?
@@salam-peace5519
Polish;
Europe = Europa
Europa = Europa
Georgia (Country) = Gruzja
Georgia (US State) = Georgia
Jupiter (Planet) = Jowisz
Jupiter (God) = Jupiter
@@salam-peace5519I think the accepted adjective is Europan.
I wonder if in 500 years they'll think of our current outer space treaty the same way we think of the treaty of Tordesillas. Just hopelessly broad and shortsighted and obviously never going to work once we actually get out there
Not even in this much time. We see it's limits today, Cold War treaties are not adapted to our current reality
I'm glad people finally recognize the absurdity of the Outer Space Treaty.
@@the11382Yes, as a sci-fi nerd, I think a lot forget we can still put certain weapons up in space
yeah pretty sure its gonna be broken eventually. we can all agree that with our growing population, earth isnt going to cut it for all of us and we're gonna HAVE to use another celestial body
@@417Owsywe still have a LOT of space that can support humans. We just don't use them because... capitalism (that's oversimplified I can't care less). But yeah, eventually we have to get out of this hell of a place.
I have always thought Martian colonisation would be more like Australia than the Americas
It's the central desert without the air
@mikeoxmall69420 And you know send lifetime convicts with a few militaty personnel for warders and there is your first wave.
@mikeoxmall69420 Without the plants, food amd good weather too.
@fullmetaltheorist well food for Botany Bay colony was what they brought with them as they didn't know what plants and animals they could eat. Botany Bay was picked over Sydney Bay because it was unpleasant.
Fair point.
yup 📸 this one is going into the "look at in 75 years from now" folder
i feel like it wouldn't be a matter of if a mars colony would declare independence, but when. Like we should be keeping that in mind, the ability to control a colony months away has never been high, so we should just accept at some point its going to happen. When we get to the point of actually doing that, all of us may not even be there to see its beginning let alone it being self sufficient enough to break off.
it would take centuries before any off earth colonies would even dare to declare independence, lol.
@@Napoleonic_S as I said, none of use would be around by the time said colonies are even being established let alone when they have reached a point where they would be self sufficient enough to try.
Exurb1a made a video about that concept! Titled "Red Dead No Redemption" as per his naming sense
One of the main reasons the US got it's independence was because it took the British 3 months to resupply, while the Americans could do it almost immediately
I feel like we should walk into setting up an off-world colony with the intent that it would eventually become politically independent and purposefully work towards it. Ensure a colony is self sufficient and able to exist alone while aiding them and keeping a friendly alliance. We really need to just accept that we can't keep a stranglehold forever and have this mindset from the beginning.
3:13 beware of Protomolecule.
References to my favorite hard Sci-Fi to date? lets go!
Oye Beltalowda!
My take has always been that one of two things will happen. 1) That Mars will unite to collectively flip off Earth's governments. Or 2) It will be a mess of near anarchic corporate city states.
Personally I think it'll be more like different countries set up their own colonies, those colonies each grow and become self-sustaining, eventually some of those colonies declare independence, and now you have several different independent and non-independent nations scattered across the planet.
Corporatocracy is incompatible with anarchism. CEOs are the "arch" in that situation.
How would they have anarchy?
The rulers could control everyone's Oxygen, water and food. All without any human input (other than their own ofc).
That's more like bronze age agricultural societies with God Kings or feudal realms with lords.
@@duckpotat9818 just simply don't have rulers
@@joeligma4721 "just simply don't have rulers" *proceeds to die in the barren wasteland of Mars*
@Khanubis THANK YOUU. I have been requesting this EXACT video from so many creators for YEARS. There are one or two attempts on youtube but theyre fairly shallow. The fact that we're entering an age astropolitics and its going largely undiscussed is wild to me
Well let me know what you think of my take on it is! I've been focusing on this subject for quite a while now behind the scenes for another project, so really I'm just happy to share some of that with the wider internet
We aren't entering it, but our grandchildren might.
@@KhAnubis I enjoyed the video. I am biased though because I would watch a 3 hour video on this topic. I am constantly thinking about things like o'neil cylinders, lagrange points, terraforming etc. I think your video accomplished everything it intended to. For a person who has no knowledge on this subject it's likely very informative. I have a lot of knowledge on this specific subject because I've been following it since before I was out of elementary school. Coincidentally around the same time I got interested in china's belt and road initiative which ended up getting me interested in channels like yours. Must say, I do really enjoy your videos and I've watched probably the majority of them. However I would love to see you go more in depth on your national union videos, I liked seeing your addressing of a potential turkish/central asian union and I think its a topic that is SEVERELY lacking discussion on youtube and I think if you did a bigger video on it, it would likely do really well.
@@THEBEEEANSS i am 22. I believe by the time I am fifty there will be established base(s) on mars, and by the time im elderly the world powers will start drawing lines on maps, even if they're just temporary placeholders.
@@danielbirchfield8552 I don't personally believe I'll ever see a permanent Mars base. I feel like we'll land on Mars and then Nasa will peter out like it did after the Moon landings, plus many futurists believe that colonizing Mars is a dumb idea.
And also, I believe China won't be economically stable for long enough to land on Mars, and the US and China are the only countries I could see ever landing on Mars.
Bro legit used KSP for his animations. And stellaris
Would interplanetary powers enforce strict borders on other worlds? During the colonial era here on Earth, borders were often fuzzy, and a colony might not hold de facto power over much of its claim. Perhaps Lunar colonies would impose their laws within a radius (e.g. 100km) of settlements and leave everywhere else lawless. That would be much easier, and the lack of oxygen means a lack of bandits to worry about
I think I will only become optimistic for large permanent settlements on other worlds only if and when someone finds a reason to create a large permanent settlement in the Antarctic. If we can find reasons for people to move there and the technology becomes available for them to live comfortably in an inhospitable environment, then we are several steps on the way to settling somewhere like Mars.
I would still be optimistic about space travel, but Antarctic civilization does sound like a good test for space civilization.
Well the earth is warming so its just a matter of time until we start building mining towns and fishing villages
Plus If I was Elon I'd be more focused on building a moon base for millionaire tourism instead on landing someone on mars
@@An_Ian waiting for the antarctic to melt defeats the purpose of the experiment
@@BlueHawkPictures17 It was never about the experiment its all about money
Permanent habitation is highly unlikely in any case as there's really no benefit to it and it would probably be detrimental to any astronauts health long-term. Besides the prospects of humans and other large mammals even being able to successfully reproduce on Mars or the Moon or some asteroid is dubious at best.
Honestly, when we move as a species into space, our planet might just have the chance it needs to heal, especially if we take the steps necessary to help it heal.
Nah, we'll ruin Mars before we ever let Earth heal. As long as Earth has anything left worth a damn that husk is getting squeezed dry. Until mankind realizes there's something more valuable than money and material power, it's extremely difficult to have hope for it to do the right thing.
@@bmac4Thanks Mr pessimism.
@@bmac4 Nah, Mars is a radioactive wasteland, can't get worse than it already is
The Earth will heal regardless as it's basically impossible to destroy the whole biosphere even with nuclear apocalypse. But, if humans want to be around to see that, this planet needs a complete upending of all the power structures and soon. Some 30% of the planet's species have been killed off in the past 200 years and we are standing on the point of no return beyond which is a destroyed climate and billions of refugees. Whatever will come next in human history, communism, anarchism, or something else, it must be based on compassion. Basing your socioeconomic order on pathological greed is a very bad idea as it turns out.
We can build a better world for everyone. People are smart and look at what we've done accidentally; surely with the power to change our planet we can make Earth even more habitable and stable than it would be without us. We have asteroid defense, we can build mountains, we can grow jungles, and we can resurrect extinct species. Life may not be fair, but we can make it better.
@@bmac4 Explain "ruin Mars" please. There's nothing there. It literally is a big ball of wasteland in space.
What would happen is people on Mars would see no reason to obey a regime from millions of miles away and they would eventually declare independence. There really wouldn’t be much nations on earth could do about it because fighting a war at that distance just isn’t possible. Although knowing how humans are Mars would form it’s own new nations and they may fight each other.
That could only happen when the colonies became self sufficient and even then they would still rely upon earth for some things
It will be independent from the start. There aren't any governments close to being able to get to Mars without SpaceX's help.
@@dansands8140 it will be very dependent on earth in the beginning. Depriving them from essentieel goods will do that for you.
As then there joice will be to work with who ever on earth can get to them. or to just die.
There's always a chance of a proxy war.
@@dansands8140 Space X is a manufacturer not a space agency. I doubt any permanent human presence will ever be established with Starship. It is good for going to orbit, to the moon, but interplanetary needs BIG interplanetary transfer vehicles to make sens
Oh, what a Great Question!! Love it!
This is the kind of video I’d like to see.
Humans are quick to claim and establish their territory, like seen before in history… quite interesting, thanks for sharing!💥
Especially Europeans
Great video didn’t expect video about space
Justin Y 🗣️🔥
This was an amazing video I love geopolitics of outer space, I hope this becomes a trend from you!
I've read Russian officials claiming that Venus is kind of a Russian planet, because they're the only ones to have put rovers on it.
God i hope we actually build space Colonies so we can offload some of our industries that are harmful to Earth into them, at the very least that would probably give Earth some leeway to heal or something.
A better idea would be to turn some habitats into nature preserves.
Awesome video!!!
this is what V2 was for
So in summary we need to unite first under one banner before colonizing the space
Well, whether we need to is one thing, all I'm saying here in essence is "we're most likely not, but I don't think that's a bad thing, even though it would be great if we did"
Lets do it under the American flag. Manifest destiny 2.0
Nah you don't need to unite. What's gonna happen is just that space will be like earth tons of states fighting, cooperating and trading for resources and power and living space.
Awesome video idea
Finally, a good video about Politics in Space
Also love the For All Mankind clips, my favourite show
One nitpick, Nitrogen isn’t exactly uncommon on Mars. It’s the second most prevalent element of the atmosphere.
For my own amusement and in order to relax, I write Science-Fiction from time to time. One thing that I have thought about is that it is not inevitable that every planet has only one colony despite that reality being quite common in many novels. It is, also, not inevitable, even with faster-than-light travel, that people will zip betwixt star systems with the ease that one goes to the local store for a gallon of milk. It could be that travel from star to star will be costly and not done by everyone on a regular basis. How many people from North America and Europe who are reading this have visited Russia, China, India, Oceania, North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Southern Cone of South America and Brazil, all in the past year? Why should it be different with solar systems, or even within this solar system, in the future?
As for Mars, assuming that humans will be able to live there and reproduce, 'tis likely that several nations will set up research stations there that will grow over time into full-scale settlements. One could see an Arab alliance led by the United Arab Emirates with a settlement, and the United States, Europe, India, China and others, as well. Due to economics and convenience, these communities could be consolidated and interlinked. A colony might comprise five large cities with 90% of the population with the rest in outliers and outposts. Over generations, this could lead to each colony's having a true sense of its own identity.
As an individual colony grows, becomes self-sufficient and more people have been living in it for generations, it may not just be that its members do not want Earth to tell them what to do and how to live: They may not want any of the other colonies to tell them what to do and how to live. The Musklanders living in Muskland may loudly assert, "Our capital is Elon City, and that is where our laws are made. We don't want other colonies to make our laws for us and to send in their police to enforce them!"
Great video.
I love your choice of character!
My personal opinion, based on pulling things out of my... We haven't even colonized Antarctica, most deserts, our oceans, or the Moon. I think for the foreseeable future, it will continue to be unrealistic, dangerous, and too expensive to colonize Mars. Mining outposts and research bases, for sure. But permanently inhabited colonies? Not until interplanetary travel is as cheap and easy as flying a plane.
The way to make interplanetary travel safe and cheap is to start building those research bases and outposts and later colonies.
And colonizing Antarctica or the deserts or god forbid the oceans properly would involve an ecological disaster, so no, that's not an intermediate step.
That's... that's what he said in the video. "Not until interplanetary travel is as cheap as flying a plane" was like the FIRST caveat he made.
Europeans didn't colonized most of the planet when the jumbo jet was invented! Creating settler colonies was much more trouble than it was worth for decades before they became successful!
Most of the time the point of having one's people inside the claim was just to keep the claim, because it was pretty unpopulated and under developed and so could be easily taken by someone else.
So, if we do start to settle the Moon, it won't be because it's easy to buy a ticket to the Moon, but because a lot of things are being subsidized by an interested government in order to keep the claims that government has over part of the lunar surface and so it want people there who are also interested in keeping theirs and no one else's!
Isaac arthur really puts into perspective how wastefull terraforming mars would be. Much better to mine it down to nothing and build space stations. Much more population could exist that way. Or much more farms, wildlife preserves or whatever you want really.
Yes, but would it be as pretty?
Space stations would be exceedingly easy to bomb out of the sky, I don't get why you people like them so much. One hole and they're gone.
@@THEBEEEANSS surround it with regalith. Planets waste 95% of their mass just on generating gravity, the vast majority of it is used for nothing.
Gravity left the chat
"Mining it down to nothing is easier than terraforming."
Isaac Arthur makes some pretty cool vids, but that doesn't mean all of his ideas make sense.
Ahhhh, Life really is the circle of time, technology pull most of us from farming and mining only to push us back to farming and mining in a different planets!
Laser 3-D printer used to print solid iron buildings from collected Iron. The easiest method uses magnets to attract iron from dust storms.
As a sci fi nerd let me just say that boarders is really complex if you try to do it in 3D space isnt going to work very well... sense planets and moons etc are always moving and such if you look how the expanse did it it could give you an idea how we could make boarders in space
My view of how space colonization would work is that there will most definitely need some sort of united framework between us humans in order to even begin. And most probably, majority of the countries will be completely left out purely bue to their incapabilites. Only nations who are currently active in space have any chance to create some sort of united space order. That would basically be USA, Russia, Japan, India, China, France etc. These nations and some other ones will probably lead the space colonization and all other nations will provide support considering their own interests.
To the stars and beyond! 🖖🏻
A true video for the soul
Really enjoyed this deep dive into what the future of space colonization could logically look like. And of course, all the jokes!
Oh no… what if corporations claim territories on planets. Like the East India Company, but instead the East Lunar Company
Or even worse, the east space company
We would have Mega corp planets. Imagine a city state on a planetary scale? Corporations could move their hq to another world to avoid taxes and regulations. This is one of the plots for sci fi like system shock and aliens universe.
I love the slow growing influence of For All Mankind. The show is so underrated.
If humans settle on Mars their genes will change and we will actually have aliens
we'll have them before they settle, albeit simple life forms
I REALLY hope bases on the moon and mars are built internationally so that only one government is built there, a united humanity is REALLY needed right now
100% agree
Doubtful.
There are a large percentage of people who distrust our own government and see the UN as useless.
There's no way a unified government would be followed.
Yes an united humanity under one emperor
I've had literal goosebumps when imagining seeing lights from a colony on a new moon... maybe someday...
7:00 May be you should make out a series of videos out of our ideas. Some are rarely discussed, but interesting. So it would be great video.
Seeing that this video actually did pretty well, I just might!
i saw those ksp clips
Oh boy, I sure can't wait for World War Mars!
Wait, why is the ghost of H.G. Wells hovering in the corner of my room?
Hi Khanubis
Hi
6:09 regarding terraforming, the channel Kurzgesagt also made a video on a way to terraform Venus, though it’d probably take as long as it’d take to terraform Mars.
0:08 City lights on the Moon will never be visible from the Earth. Earthlight is so bright that it never gets darker than Times Square on New Year's Eve. Exterior lights would never be necessary except when the Earth is a thin crescent. Then the only city lights would be at the very edge of the Moon and would be overwhelmed by moonlight.
Perfect opportunity for an Isaac Arthur collab
Probably
I’m hoping there will be.
is that a map men referece :o
It depends on the planet and its resources. If the resources are overly abundant or terrifyingly scarce borders will not exist (for different reasons.)
Overly abundant resources mean borders are worthless as you can get what you desire with little or minimum effort.
Terrifyingly scarce resources will force humans under the owners yoke or die from the lack of the resource in a hurry creating a submit or die culture.
For those with but not enough resources (or lacking the infrastructure to get at it) their will be as it becomes a urunation contest about who has the most of everything and those trying to get into a game they will never be a part of.
13:03 Please tell me that was a Map Men reference.
1:01 We already have the infrastructure to support millions of people in a place we were wholly not designed to live in; It's called Arizona.
Of course there will be borders in space sooner or later. Clash of the civilization.
Yes.
Imagine if in year 4000 they have space exclusive economic zones
6:45 Stay away from da owkwa!!!
I think we might settle Mars be a space stations around the L points. The Moon is relatively easy to get to in comparison that I think interested parties just might group their resources to created something like the Lunar Gateway but Martian and have a few L point space stations that will help in acclimatizing people to the Martian environment that they then will settle.
More than likely using a variety of habitats, some will be similar to a space station module others just might be underground cellar-esque, and yet others might be what you described (sheltered parts of canyons) that probably will be the biggest one before we might try to actually fully terraform Mars!
Probably be a lot like Antarctica, the rules around Antarctica are actually very similar to those of the Space use treaties.
Probably will be a bunch of Individual outposts and colonies operated by different nations.
pretty sure the only country to get there will be USA, its Allies and MAYBE China
Same thinking bro
yup are future's going to end like battletech.
They where already mining helium 3 in 2018
Edit: good job if you get the reference
Abt what you said @ 7:02- you should DEFINITELY talk about those topics in future vids 🙂
Oh dear god no...i can only imagine how broken and disorganized and slow communication. I can only imagine how the Earth will possibly go into a state of being replaceable.
13:03 please tell me this joke was inspired by MapMan from the video about time!!!
11:21 I think at some point rule 2 would just be ignored, abolished or modified.
Such as saying “you can claim any land/territory on a foreign planet/moon as long as you have a presence there and the sovereign territory only applies up to the karman line (aka 100km or so above the surface). Any space outside of a planet/moons karman line is to be considered “international waters”.” Or something like that.
Basically treating the vacuum of space as international waters while anything on a planet/moon up to its karman line can be claimed. Perhaps each planet/moon would have a different karman line?
Bold of you to assume we'll make it out of this rock without collapsing from rising geopolitical conflicts or quickly decaying ecosystems.
I think any collonies in space need to be a common effort of humanity and not belonging to 1 or a few countries
Explain the Kármán line
Yes there probably will
Space belongs to all.
With travel distances it is likly that once they are self sustaining colonies will become independent. This is honestly what would be ideal
earth bases can control oxygen, and they can bomb the bases,
@@joaogabrielimperial7777 1. They would gain nothing from bombing a mars base. At some point you cut your losses . Like britian did with the USA.
2. Oxygen is one of the most important things you must make self sustaining . It would be made on mars not shipped there.
I hope so hard that we get rid of borders before we go there, and that we never put borders in space
0:48 totally agree with the Elon thing
So if Mars becomes independent wouldn’t that make this hypothetical situation similar to the setting of The Expanse?
I get The Expanse is SCI-Fi but I’ve always found the show interesting in both story and a more grounded setting. No shields, no FTL, just literal rockets with point defense systems and long ranged missiles shooting at each other.
And what, exploit us beltas cause we just some spacers? Welwala!
Maaaaaaaybe lets figure out the geopolitics of Antarctica first...
Did you come up with selenography and aresography, or did you hear them elsewhere? It does make sense, it's not really geography if you're not on Gaia (Earth), and I like the convention of using the Greek names like how geo- is used on earth instead of terra-
No, these terminologies actually exist. I have seen them before a lot of times.
Just as long as the enclaves and exclaves idea stays here on earth, we should be fine...
I hope there would be no borders to avoid mars wars or thinking that one country is better etc.
With this mean that i hope that there will be a political group which rules whole mars and that we are just one huge but i mean huge country on mars later in the future
Unfortunately…humans will always be in conflict with one another….eventually it’s gonna be like Star Wars more so than Star Trek.
6:40 it takes seven years to go to titan.. there will not be tourism.. but permanent settlers and robots building something small there is likely to happen this century
One people One world 😊
The thing with Mars is that they won't have anything to export that Earth doesn't already have a cheaper source for. So economically, they'll always be dependent on Earth's good graces.
The asteroid belt, on the other hand, is where things may get interesting. They'll have enormous amounts of metal, even water and rocket fuel, to export. Maybe we'll see the return of city-states in the form of space stations. Maybe such city states will be founded by mining companies who got tired of paying taxes to an Earth-country, when all their business operations are in space.
Me
All my For All Mankind nerds, where you at!?
I think it should be if you can mine inhabit or defend it it's yours
4:10
oh god... we're becoming a "Late Space Age" pre-ftl civ with awareness 0
Meanwhile the Prikki are locked in a bubble on Mars waiting for a Rover to stumble on them
Yes, there will be borders.
Given current politics I could easily see a Plymouth situation.
Heyka! Great video. Space is a very, very hostile environment, and due to physical limitations, the colonies will not be able to count on quick help from the founding countries. In other words, the colonies will have to cooperate with each other much more than they did on Earth. Therefore, I propose to look at the territorial development of the USA as a prototype of space colonization. The UN rules on Earth. For now, it is quite a weak structure - like the USA at the beginning of its existence - but it exists. Colonies/stations established on other facilities will be like "unorganized territories", but over time a bureaucratic cap will be established by the UN to better respond to crises on a given planet/facility. Therefore, we can expect the establishment of a state on the entire Moon or the entire Mars, which will be joined to the UN as one entity.
Very funny video ❤
I at least hope borders will only be a thing of earth in the future
yes it will and as an bharatiya indian I want my country resources at our hand we need resopurses we hungry for it
literally we are growing and want more
already we are or ISRO is preparing for interplanetary habitat and colony
nuklure propulsion fusion and fission propulsion for deep space intra system means tea garden alfa century many more
my prediction is superpowerswill have many planets moon gas giant and asteroid to there name
That’s easy… as long as there are borders on earth, yes!
in theory at least it should be much easier to refine metals and manufacture goods in a low gravity and no oxygen environment, hell you could essentially build forever infrastructure since the main reason infrastructure like bridges and roads collapse here on earth is because of weight of cars, weathering, and oxidization
I love how you just slip up multiple times and call the Moon "Luna". Safe to day you watched the Expanse
Human will never leave Earth. Advanced Human civilization will go extint on Earth within 300 years
Proof
What do you think we can expect in space in our lifetimes?
more space junk.
Maybe asteroid mining, a couple of moon missions, and a basic planetary defence system
Warp drives and portals.
Time travel