Mystical Initiation in Ancient Greece: The Eleusinian Mysteries
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- A healthy level of speculation is required this time as we dive into the fascinating Eleusinian mysteries and its transformative rituals of consciousness-alteration.
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Sources/Suggested reading.
Bowden, Hugh (2010). "Mystery cults in the Ancient World". Thames and Hudson Ltd.
Burkert, William (1982). "Greek Religion". Harvard University Press.
Burkert, William (1988). "Ancient Mystery Cults". Harvard University Press.
Evans, Nancy A. “Sanctuaries, Sacrifices, and the Eleusinian Mysteries.” Numen, Vol. 49, No. 3 (2002): 227-254.
Mylonas, George E. “Eleusis and the Eleusinian Mysteries.” The Classical Journal, Vol. 43, No. 3 (1947): 130-146.
Ustinova, Yulia (2017). "Divine Mania: Alterations of Consciousness in Ancient Greece". Routledge.
#Eleusinianmysteries #Greece #Mythology
You do an excellent job setting the cultural context; integrating history and myth; and carefully distinguishing between what we can know for sure and what we can only speculate. This is definitely the best video on the Eleusinian Mysteries on TH-cam. Great job.
It had to be. It’s Filip.
Hey thanks man!
Thank you. Very enjoyable conversation 👌
How I expected to see ancient pagan traditions covered on this channel ! This topic is so fascinating !
Indeed, finally
I agree! So much fun to make episodes on these topics!
Two months ago I actually visited Eleusis on a school trip to Greece and it was amazing! What a coincidence that you make a video about it now, I’m shook. Thanks for the interesting video!
did marcus aurelius had his head or no
I’d love to see you cover more of ancient Hellenic/Greco-Roman religion(s) and others from antiquity. Especially as it continuously evolved and developed new forms of practice & belief like the Mysteries of Isis or the emergence of Theurgist philosopher-priests like Iamblichus during late Antiquity (or maybe even how myths where interpreted as theological/philosophical allegories). Awhile ago I read a very interesting book called Hellenism in Late Antiquity by GW Bowersock that detailed the endurance and transformation of Greco-Roman religion (and Hellenized religion in the Roman world in general, which is too often assumed to have just immediately died out in the 4th Century) that doesn’t really get discussed often.
This is gonna be a really good one. The first rule of the Eleusinian Mysteries is...
i like it XD
You don't talk about the Eleusinian Mysteries !
@@edilainedias161 Exactly!
@@xiuhcoatl4830 I laughed so hard at this reference !
I can probably never visit Athens now.
Ayo I'm replaying Assassin's creed Odyssey so this is the perfect time for this video 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
@Alex Grey yeah man the game is lovely, awesome environment to be in
They really know how to recreate historical locations!
Psychedelics are great, one time I was trippin on too much acid and I was staring at a fire pit and the fire pit turned into a mini world with little people and buildings, it was 2 years ago and it's such an experience to remember. would love to try out the magic mushrooms next, just don't know where to get them, so hard to come by
once I took shrooms on accident they were in a chocolate bar and my fat ass thought it was regular choclate 😂
[adamsflakesx]
ships Psychedelics
@@userconspiracynut is he on IG or what?
when i tried shrooms i ate way more than i should of because i thought they wouldn’t work and then my face got numb and i threw up shrooms and my friend was laughing but trying to comfort me and the bathroom lights were flickering cuz they were old and i had to go home
@@ugmiles. yeah, He has variety of stuffs like mushrooms, lsd, DMT even the chocolate bars
I went to a Pentacostal Revival (I'm not a Pentacostal) high as could be on opiates; the rhythmic repetitive music (the song "I won't go back" in double time for 15 minutes straight during a period of group reflective prayer from a live band), emotionally driven preaching, feverishly intense (verbal and non-verbal) prayer, anointings with oil, the laying of hands, and the visible acts of being "overcome with spirit" are very impactful in that state as long as you approach it without judgement or an overly analytical mindset. I understand the "getting in an altered state of mind" rituals to enhance the experience, I've also been while sober and it's still very moving.
This is fascinating, can't wait for your videos about the other Greek mystery cults!
Thank you for this! My older brother had talked to me about this last spring, I am happy you covered it in detail, all of what you covered he told me about. Those aspects of ancient Greece are so fascinating, and you have it right about Plato being directly involved with mystical practices, one of the things I never heard anyone talk about but I would find when I read his works.
You have no idea how long I’ve been waiting for this. Thank you Filip!☺️
I wonder if participating in these rituals would have the same effect on a modern person. Is it something that hits so deep that we would feel transformed as well? Or we would shrug it off? Or maybe lose ourselves completely? I don't know.
ROMAN's : th-cam.com/video/1fnSLQAHAhg/w-d-xo.html
It will.. And still practiced till today with variety of mysteries and method. But the essence is the same enlightenment. Some using mind altering drug, some using breathing technique, some using bodily movement.
It would because, in this case, Demeter is a real, external deity and to assume modern man can shrug off a encounter with a goddess is…funny lol
I think it would be very effective with modern people, though perhaps not to the same degree or in precisely the same ways. We have a passing familiarity with the mythology, it has infiltrated our culture to a degree, and even the most rational among us is capable of magical thinking (too much so, as Q has proved). It would hardly be "the same" exactly, as we are not of that time and place, but could be very similar.
I participated in ceremonies with an ancient sacred shamanic tea, Ayahuasca, and I believe these mysteries were somehow a similar experience. I quite identify what he said as an experience of death and rebirth, and the transformation of consciousness and perception of life.
But I see that the society we have today as more "intoxicating". It is difficult to maintain the state of divinity that we achieve during the ritual or practice the learning that we receive there.
Even knowing that there were initiates who participated in the mysteries several times, I get the impression that it was easier for them to keep that state of consciousness because they lived in a more natural environment.
You should invite Brian on to discuss his thesis. This is one of the most interesting historical conversations today
Thank you Phillip, it’s a privilege to hear your discourse, to be subscribed to your channel. God Bless
On the subject of whether there were mind altering substances in the wine they drank, I'm not sure it would have been necessary for there to have been. When I lived in San Diego I used to run the Rock and Roll Marathon, and they would provide a free beer at the finish line and bars downtown would often offer a free beer or discounted beers to runners if you went to them after the race. After running 26 miles, something about the resource depletion makes your body suck up that alcohol like a sponge, and I was always catching a ride home completely blasted after three or four beers. I feel like if you took a bunch of people who were starved, exhausted, and in an environment that primed them for intense spiritual experiences, and then gave them just one large glass of strong wine, that might be enough in itself to put them in a receptive state to have all sorts of crazy experiences by itself.
That also got me thinking about the secrecy of the cult, and I wonder if it's purpose is to preserve the experience for new initiates. When I was in boot camp, our "final exam" was something called "battle stations", where we ran through a bunch of intense simulated scenarios after being forced to stay awake for about 36 hours. There was a strict rule that no one who had been through battle stations was allowed to discuss the details of it with people who hadn't been through it, because they wanted to test people's ability to respond to unanticipated situations while in a state of extreme exhaustion and stress. Most of the drills would actually be pretty easy if you were well rested, relaxed, and knew what was coming. The combination of stress, exhaustion, and lack of foreknowledge is what allows them to create an experience that makes this a good enough simulation of the stress of combat to use it as an entry level examination of one's ability to perform under that stress. You take any of those away, and it's just a fun little series of games and obstacle courses. The same might be true for the Mysteries. They can reliably cultivate a certain experience so long as they can control for your state of mind at the time the ritual takes place, but any substantial foreknowledge of what was about to come may hinder that ability. It's one thing for a return initiate to know that it's never going to be the same as the first time, but by making the ritual public knowledge, you may effectively "defang" the ceremony, preventing it from being able to have the desired effect on new initiates.
This is also why modern psychology is trumped by its own card. Participants of any study have to be told it is in fact an experiment, and no harm can come to them. Thus real reactions cannot be seen. In the early days psychology experiments were true and revealing about human nature because participants were asked to things they thought where real even torture by button pressing and the screaming victim was an actor but this was never revealed, so people believed they were giving electric shocks. Psychologists were shocked at how far some people will go when ordered by a superior.
Most of what you've said is Irrelevant. Running a marathon and getting free beer are not really relevant to the Mysteries.
@@ObakuZenCenter yep, because that is precisely the connection that was being drawn there. Thank you for leaving such a...dare I say...relevant reply to the actual content of my post.
They have found traces of erogot and grain where these were preformed there's a species of erogot in middle America that is far less toxic but still mind altering likely they had a similar erogot and is similar to lsd I've read stories that it wasn't uncommon for the upper initiated to be placed in a coffin so it was like rising from the dead a new man ! Also Pythagoras followers ate a diet that would support this substance from making people sick taking it !
I do think the reason for secrecy likely has also to do with what you allude to
Amazing video! María Zambrano's book "Man and the Divine" has a beautiful chapter on the Eleusinian Mysteries and their fundamental role in Greek society. Would love to see more content on the deep roots between reason and mysticism, keep it up!
Thanks! The Plutarch quote was excellent. It's sad we've lost a clear way to lose our fear of death, which I believe is a major factor in today's anxieties.
Agree
This, I think, is the most thorough video on the Eleusinian Mysteries I've yet seen. Most other documentaries on the subject make it seem like there's absolutely no record left of the strange (to us) and curious practices that went on at the Temple of Demeter in Eleusis (or Elefsis in Modern Greek). However, you've clearly looked at the source material, and by "source material," I mean the ancient writers who shared some of what they knew about the Mysteries in their texts and presented us with a clearer picture as to what they were all about. Thank you so much for this. I'd also heard that there is or was a tiny church in the vicinity of Elefsis whose parishioners, largely women, still venerate Demeter as a saint, referring to her as "Saint Demeter," though I don't know how true this is. I look forward to following the path that the initiates took when I finally get to Athens, as one can still more or less go the same way they did from the base of the Acropolis (an area now known as Kerameikos) all the way to the site of the Temple of Demeter in Elefsis. Awesome video!
One of the best channels out there, I and many others truly value your content. Thank you so much for all your hard work 🙏
I’m very excited for this one.
Excited for this series
Really looking forward to this series 🤙🏽
Wow what a fascinating topic to cover really looking forward to watching this series unfold. I loved your comment referencing how too often we look back on the past from todays view point. So true, even in modern times this plays out whereby again we place today’s morals/ethics/standards on things from say 40/50 years ago let alone 1000’s of years.
Thank you for sharing all that "forgotten" knowledge. Your videos are impatiently waited
And we appreciate you, Filip, for sharing all these wonderful videos with us! It's always nice to see other people are also fascinated with such (shall I say niche?) subjects.
I'm an aspiring psychedelic therapist and throughout my degree I've always brought up these mystery religions and love giving presentations on this and other psychedelic history.
th-cam.com/video/QxnYt9Q3YtI/w-d-xo.html
There is no evidence that psychedelics were used. Please don't encourage cultural appropriation, especially in connection with largely non existent 'psychedelic history.'
@@ObakuZenCenter For recent evidence supporting the theory that psychedelic compounds were involved in these and other rituals see “The Immortality Key” by Brian Muraresku (Through his research the author finds evidence that supports the dismissed hypotheses of researchers who in 1978 claimed that the drink/potion used was a type of beer that was spiked with ergot) - if you have an open mind this book is worth the read to test against your original conclusion.
The book is not conclusive and the “truth” of whether psychedelics were used is debatable but it is incorrect that there is no evidence to support this hypothesis nor is there cultural appropriation when such practices have been borrowed and shared across time and geography and are not by right or by exclusion limited to almost every other.
A Zen Center: No, But the experience pretty much sounds Like what people who used psychedelics describe. What cultural appropriation? Oh, please.... People Across cultures And time tend to do simular things, Its incredibly stupid to make culture a property! Especially since people were influencing each other And accepting each others cultures And inventions all the time. Like seriously, stop! Its Like thinking who first "invented" music. Nonsensical debate.
I hope someday you cover the powerful experiences in the Asklepeion. It also involved losing your fear of death, as a lot of the patients were badly wounded or sick and in danger of losing their life.
At about 17:40 you say that Plato & Plutarch lived "almost half a century from each other" - I'm sure you meant to say "half a millennium" not "half a century." Great work as always. Thank you!
Noticed this too. An obvious case of misspeaking.
Indeed!
The Mysteries went for two thousand years, the largest Festival in the ancient world, there was a 55-day truce held the time of the Mysteries that was honored by everyone. This was a decent presentation but not too detailed. Nero
slunk away from the Mysteries at the last Moment In Fear
HELL YES I LOVE THIS CHANNEL!
Beforehand, I would like to let you know that I admire your channel in light of its elucidation of various aspects of antiquity vis-a-vis its multitude of cults and myths.
As for the crux of my entry (hoping that you do not object to its contents), I noticed an important minor detail that was omitted within your assertion that Hades "forced" Persephone (Roman Presepina) "to spend months each year" in the "underworld."
The crucial detail was the method of Hades' deception, whereby he insisted that the maiden goddess consume 4 Pomegranate seeds before she left for home. At any rate, because Persephone consumed such seeds (which some scholars consider a metaphor for Hades' semen), she unknowingly committed herself to spend 1 month a year in the "House of Hades" for EACH Pomegranate seed she had ingested, thereby representing the mythological genesis of winters (4 months).
In this connection, I strongly suggest you consider accessing the book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name" by Brian C. Muraresku.
Cheers and Bravo!
P.S. According to various sources (especially the recommended work posted above), consumption of hallucinogenic drugs involved in the Eleusinian Mysteries appears to have been paramount - thus, a crucial factor of the "Telesterion Stage" of these sacred rituals (since the liquid ingested after fasting consisted of barley/wine tainted with such drugs).
Another great video, Filip. Thank you.
That we will likely never know the details of what was said, done, and shown at these Mysteries fills me with such a deep sense of loss. Like the same longing for what was lost when you think of the library of Alexandria.
I think we can rebuild it. It was for people that wanted to be religious but religion wasn't doing it. There are no gods, life is filled with injustice, take solace in the life cycle. This understanding was appreciated by the leaders of Athens, but it was also feared. Only ethical minds can accept no gods but still seek a moral life.
Demeter is smiling down on you!
And on you!
Zeus willing
Wonderful choice of topic!
This was fascinating. I feel like I could fall down a rabbit hole with this one!
Great video - I've always found the mystery cults fascinating. I hope you do something on Orphism, the Bacchus cult and the Isis cult.
I'll probably get there eventually!
I suggest Richard Payne Knight for some excellent interpretation of Mystery symbology. Bacchus would be the same as Osiris.. just as Apollo and Dionysius and all other pagan personifications of the Sun... and moon i.e. Isis, who is the passive generative force of Nature. The exoteric view of polytheism is the worship of the personified gods, whereas the esoteric version i.e. the initiated mystae .. they represent the active/passive forces of Nature, which the all-supreme being set in motion. Yet, when they come to their supposed apotheosis, they claim (a) being/s of Light is manifested before them. I believe this to the angel of light /"metatron" written about in 2 Corinthians xi.14.
@@LetsTalkReligion If I could add one more to that list, please also cover Necromateion at Acheron. This is a ritual site that often is forgotten even though it was a recreation of Odysseus' journey into the underworld and should therefore be very important for Classicists.
Praised be Dionysios who gave us wine.
@@tavuzzipust7887 Dionysus most be one hell of a bartender if you're praising him
"The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name" by Brian Muraresku is a great book on this subject!
This is a very fascinating subject. Wonderful quote from Plutarch.
Wow how did i not see this for 2 whole days this is my favorite topic of spiritual history from my favorite spiritual history youtuber hell yes
Very refreshing!! Loved the video 👌🏾👌🏾
Great video, very informative. I was hoping to see some stuff about the greek mysteries from you eventually :)
I am lucky to watch this from Mr.Flip live, with lots of love from india a sufi student.
Fantastic video as always 👏
Great video! Thank you Phillip
Fantastic research!!! Really interesting, many thanks!
This video is fantastic!
Great document. Thank You. I have been there meditating and found somewhat similar information in several aspects of Mysria in Eleusis.
Thanks Filip what a lovely video thank you for educating me more.
Brilliant! Many thanks.
I don't know if you have experience with psychedelics, but I can tell you this.
My ability to speak and think in multitudes of concepts and link them together with clarity was catalyzed by taking and speaking to psilocybin mushrooms.
I have had dozens of high dose full-blown psilocybin experiences and I have drunk wine - let me tell you friend, I find it hard to believe that anything truly mystical or moving is accomplished by playing some harps and sipping wine.
If the Elusinian Mysteries were performed without psychedelics, then there is probably nothing mysterious about it and was probably as dry and boring as going to sunday church.
I don't remember if it was marshall mcluhan that said it or if he was quoting somebody else, but he said something like "psychedelics are the lazy man's mysticism" lol
@@sneakybeaver8866 on the contrary,
some people are rather busy and don't have time to meditate on a mountain half a century to get to the bottom of things.
Work smart, not hard.
When your brain is in a protracted state of high alarm or is simply going through the process of dying, it lights up like a discoball. You can experience projection out of your body through hypersensory constructions as well as a kind of re-conjuring of past events that feels far more real than the first time those events actually happened, with every detail tangibly present.
It might be the case that you slip into that state easier if drunk?
Thank you for your time with this video!
Also, in older myths, Demeter and Persephone were 'sister queens', or the '2 queens'
Simply too great depiction.
Thanks
Excellent presentation
Great video thank you truly a great subject.
Thank you ! I have yet another topic to study 👌
¡Fascinante descripción!
Thank you kindly sir for such a meaningful topic
Thank you, fascinating stuff!
Your still my favourite TH-camr
A book related to this topic is Brian Muraresku's "The Immortality Key." It was an enjoyable read.
I've been watching a lot of the channel Esoterica.
Dr Sledge makes this point a lot.
That our modern distinction between science, philosophy, mysticism and religion doesn't apply when discussing the beliefs and practices of the ancients.
Even the relatively recent Isaac Newton was simultaneously a polymath, scientist and occultist.
Beautiful video filip :)
Loved this
Thank you for the research--well presented!
I remember I did a post grad paper on this, such an interesting topic and well covered, thank you.
I can watch your videos without fear of being annoyed or offended. Let's Talk Religion!
Loved this video!
True, today esp in the West we tend to rationalize all trends of ancient Greek philosophy. Important misunderstandings rise as a result. While Aristotle was truly focused on logic and method, Plato in his dialogues conveys a lot of Orphism and Pythagoreanism.
Philosophy back then was not always an ''intellectual'' (as we comprehend the term today) pursuit, but
a life-altering and lifelong journey, leading to a Sophia (Wisdom) that surpassed this world.
As Plato has it, ''those who truly philosophize, study death and dying'',
meaning that the aim of philosophy was to help one go beyond the phenomena and enter realms
hidden in memory, cloaked in symbols and waitng for an awakening ...
You should make a video on the Greek θείοι άνδρες (divine men), the αιθεροβάτες (etherwalkers or skywalkers) and the ιατρομάντεις (seers-doctors), too.
Fascinating subjects of the ancient Greek cosmos.
There are so many wonderful things people do not know about the old Greek world ...
Another great video... keep it up
Thank you 🙏🏽 amazing subject that I’ve always wanted to know about it. Now I do 😊
Excellent work
This is good. We appreciate it.
Very enjoyable and interesting, thanks so much for sharing. ❤️🌹🎶
Thank you so much!
Thank you for this
Awesome topic!!!
I just cant wrap my head around the fact that so many people participated in these events and they all managed to keep it secret. Maybe Christianity would not have gained such a strangle hold on the world if these Athenians had been a little more communicative.
I wonder if baptism was a shortened, openly shared experience based on these rites.
Good job lets revive it.
Great information. I started reading Russell's History and he mentions the mysteries, but not much else. The ancient gods and their cults influenced thinking of the time. I took notes and now I have a greater perspective. There's a 3 day, Catholic-influenced, non-mandatory initiation called Cursillo. It relies on secrecy to some degree.
Great ! A contemporary human being able to open up the past of the Mysteries. Once we connect them to the tradition of philosophy, and from there to the development of science and technology, we will be at home with who we ARE in the ONE.
That is a very nice 'Floor Lamp' to your left!
Thank you, I learned a lot.
Fascinating Thank you.
This would be fun to recreate.
This ancient ceremony, this acceptance into charged privileged ionics and dual opposite charges, can never be again in this world of our creation.
What lies between, that which connected us with ‘It’, is, and has corrupted, thee organic links, since the coming of industrial mechanisms and thinking.
Only the absence of violent vibrations such as industry, will we ever connect again.
Thanks MUCH. I have often wondered about the subject. Much like an NDE indeed.
Brilliant! Thanks
The Winter/Spring cycle of someone going to and leaving the underworld as part of a "deal" with the god of the underworld, as described in the myth of the Eleusinian Mysteries, seems to be VERY similar to beliefs involving the Mesopotamian god Tammuz and how his wife the goddess Inanna/Ishtar made him take her place and go to the underworld every winter and how people would "mourn" him every year followed by the Akitu festival of the Spring Equinox. I wouldn't be surprised if the Greek mystery cult got its idea from that one
Awesome 👏
btw dope video awesome job very well explained
My top 5
Lets Talk Religion
Mr Mythos
Hochelaga
Esoterica
Religion for breakfast
this sounds really fun tbqh
The Eleusinian Mysteries were ancient even for ancient Greeks. No one knows when they started. People like of Plato and almost all ancient Greeks and some very important Romans, had participated and fully support the truth of the extraordinary experience. These people have a reliability that makes me think I can not question what they say. One more thing, Demetra = Δήμητρα = Γη μήτηρ = mother Earth.
Was there any aspect of keeping initiates from falling asleep through the initiation? I know that sleep deprivation will DEFINITELY add to hallucinations. It’s something modern fraternities, even the army, does for making initiates more “malleable” and accepting of the new information they are being given.
I participated in ceremonies with an ancient sacred shamanic tea, Ayahuasca, and I believe these mysteries were somehow a similar experience. I quite identify what was said as an experience of death and rebirth, and the transformation of consciousness and perception of life.
Daime?
@@isiahfriedlander5559 Yeah !
Assuming the Kykeon contained fun stuff, there are paralells to draw, for sure.
did it make you throw up?
@@edilainedias161 Great, i've seen lives totally transformed by the experience, from the end of addictios to a complete change in life purpose, I really want to visit Alto Santo one day.
Wonderful!
I wish you'd do something on Parmenedes - He stands at the threshold between the mystical and the rational.
Thanks!
Plutarch doesn't seem to be describing an "out of body" experience , but a total emersion , perhaps theatrical , ritual.
Foarte tare frate.