Sorry about the video being out of focus for a while midway through! Check out my linktree for more: linktr.ee/filipholm Support Let's Talk Religion on Patreon: www.patreon.com/letstalkreligion Or through a one-time donation: www.paypal.com/paypalme/letstalkreligion Also check out the Let's Talk Religion Podcast: open.spotify.com/show/0ih4sqtWv0wRIhS6HFgerb?si=95b07d83d0254b
No worries about the focus! I was finally able to make out some of the smaller titles on your bookshelf. Made my day. 😊 There is always a silver lining.
Great job, as usual, but especially this time, because you broached a most important thread in "connecting the dots." Reason leads directly to mysticism when Reason is indeed followed faithfully. (Irrationalism too often masquerades as rationalism in this world of limitation, which believes that rationalism is to try and reduce limitless and abstract Truth to a limited and finite understanding!) And Parmenides is key to illustrating this connection (between the West and the East), as my book makes clear. Limitation must be recognized as IRRATIONAL (by definition) in order to make room for The Rational in one's mind. And "The Philosopher's Stone" is then found to be the foundation of all truly rational (whole) Thought; The Philosopher's Stone being the simple and yet most profound fact that "GOD" is The Mind that is ALL. There it is. But one has not FOUND the Philosopher's Stone until one has found very good reason to believe that this is true! Experience is required.
This was a fantastically thorough yet concise overview of a vast subject I've been studying for decades. You brought together many disparate threads elegantly. I had never heard that Plutarch quote on the Eleusinian mysteries, so thanks for including that. Thanks as always Filip!
@@LetsTalkReligion It brings me so much joy to see this particular community of creators in the philisophy, esotericism, occultism, mysticism and religion genre thrive and interact with one another. Growing up in my teens when TH-cam was created I didn't have the luxery of what you few wonderful folk have woven together with academic yet open minded approaches but instead was autofed biased religious propaganda, biased atheist propaganda, insane conspiracy theories and people who in retrospect had severe mental illnessness bringing in others into their delusions (both spreading delusions and imbedding further those of the creator in themselves). Even later in my life when I joined the OTO I thought the information I was getting was going to be more accurate but it turns out Crowley didn't really know much about the Eleusinian Mysteries or Gnosticism but put both as main themes to his philosophy. I'm glad I left the OTO and have begun walking my own path... a path in which you folk have played a key part. I came close to closing the door on anything but personsl direct mystical experiences and studying non-wooey science like physics and chemistry to understand reality and try to find possible explanations for ineffable and implausible experiences I've had on my journey... but the videos created by both of you and Justin and Angela and many others like Seekers of Unity and the rest of the gang refueled my love for history and philosophy, symbolism and the study of how others (not just my own direct experiences) understand reality and consciousness, divinity and the nature of the individual. Thank you. May your lives be full of love, light, insight, revelation and excitement :) Edit: note I still love science and view it as my primary "religion" not in the scientism sense but in the sense that to me by definition if one were to take all experimentally sound science known in the past, present and yet to be future you end up describing the workings and nature of Divinity itself. All i meant was I nearly stopped studying and appreciating correlating my mystical experiences with my love of science when I let go of dogmatic Thelema
@@LetsTalkReligion @LetsTalkReligion It brings me so much joy to see this particular community of creators in the philisophy, esotericism, occultism, mysticism and religion genre thrive and interact with one another. Growing up in my teens when TH-cam was created I didn't have the luxery of what you few wonderful folk have woven together with academic yet open minded approaches but instead was autofed biased religious propaganda, biased atheist propaganda, insane conspiracy theories and people who in retrospect had severe mental illnessness bringing in others into their delusions (both spreading delusions and imbedding further those of the creator in themselves). Even later in my life when I joined the OTO I thought the information I was getting was going to be more accurate but it turns out Crowley didn't really know much about the Eleusinian Mysteries or Gnosticism but put both as main themes to his philosophy. I'm glad I left the OTO and have begun walking my own path... a path in which you folk have played a key part. I came close to closing the door on anything but personsl direct mystical experiences and studying non-wooey science like physics and chemistry to understand reality and try to find possible explanations for ineffable and implausible experiences I've had on my journey... but the videos created by both of you and Justin and Angela and many others like Seekers rereading what I wrote I realized it may sound like you all turned me against science when the opposite is true! I still love science and view it as my primary "religion" not in the scientism sense but in the sense that to me by definition if one were to take all experimentally sound science known in the past, present and yet to be future you end up describing the workings and nature of Divinity itself. All i meant was I nearly stopped studying and appreciating correlating my mystical experiences with my love of science when I let go of dogmatic Thelema and left the OTO
Yeah, I agree. Notice how the initiation rituals in the mystery cults involve a symbolic death and rebirth by reenacting the experience of a deity who either dies and resurrects (Dionysus, Osiris, the sun god in the Isis mysteries) or goes down into the underworld and rises out of it (Persephone/Kore, the sun in the Isis mysteries). Now read Paul's interpretation of baptism where he describes it as a ritual death and resurrection/rebirth that emulates the death and resurrection of Jesus. All of these cults and Christianity offer salvation from death or a happy afterlife. A lot of these rituals are found in the ancient Egyptian mortuary cult which revolved around the deaths and resurrections of Osiris and the sun god. Diodorus Siculus in his Library of Histories 1.96.4-6 writes: "Orpheus, for instance, brought from Egypt most of his mystic ceremonies, the orgiastic rites that accompanied his wanderings, and his fabulous account of his experiences in Hades. For the rite of Osiris is the same as that of Dionysus and that of Isis very similar to that of Demeter, the names alone having been interchanged; and the punishments in Hades of the unrighteous, the Fields of the Righteous, and the fantastic conceptions, current among the many, which are figments of the imagination - *all these were introduced by Orpheus in imitation of the Egyptian funeral customs."*
This deep dive into the mystical and philosophical aspects of ancient Greece challenges the commonly held perception of this era as solely the cradle of rationalism and logic. It's intriguing to see how deeply intertwined mysticism, altered states of consciousness, and religious practices were with the philosophical inquiries of figures like Plato, Parmenides, and Socrates. The exploration of mystery cults, the Eleusinian Mysteries, and the Bacchic rituals, alongside the philosophical mysticism evident in Plato's dialogues, underscores a complex culture where the quest for knowledge encompassed both the rational and the transcendental. It's a reminder that our ancestors recognized multiple pathways to understanding reality, valuing both the intellect and experiences beyond the ordinary. This video serves as a compelling invitation to reconsider our historical narratives and acknowledge the rich panorama of human thought and spiritual exploration in ancient Greece. Thank you for shedding light on this often overlooked aspect of ancient Greek culture and inviting us to broaden our understanding of their legacy.
Honestly, I'd like you to do videos: 1) The maniots who practiced Greek paganism up until the 9th century, as they've pretty interesting as an ethnic subgroup of Greeks. 2) Modern-day Neopaganism in Greece as well, as it'd be cool to see how they compare to their ancient ancestors.
I would, in fact, also be very interested in seeing how acutely he can try to identify and coalesce modern locations of divine attributes and “gods” in our seemingly secular globalized society
Thank you for making this video. These ideas, the role of mysticism in ancient Greek philosophy, this is how my professor Tom Trelogan introduced his students to ancient philosophy, and it kindled my love for the search and study of wisdom/truth.
I had similar experiences. I do not know, what I should write here - maybe... okey: there was some event, where I got in fear of dying, and suddenly it switched over to some kind of bliss. Or maybe it was real bliss. I do not know. First I was kind of fighting death for a while, but then I thought: let it happen, let it happen... And then it switched over. It was a real and full release and also a full surrender to it. I got calm and blissful, my spine grew warm, very pleasantly warm. My breath was calm, free, and healthy. It was an unbelievable experience. It lasted for about 3 hours or so - this very strong experience. I totally lost fear and got somehow free. (Maybe this was something which is called here in this video "initiation"? I don't know.) Then I had reflections on many things. I also thought - in the face of death - what should I do with my life, with my remaining lifetime? Living the positive only, that was my decision. Living what is the good thing, the right thing, the positive thing - what I consider positive. Being it. Doing it. I made this decision just for me and myself in this process - I mean it was a totally individual decision -, and I stayed with it since then. Later, when this kind of strong experience was over I remained in a thinking process for quite a while, right after this very intensive experience and also for a month or so at least. Again and again I had to think about it, about many issues. It was not a strong and strict way of thinking, more a soft and revealing way. Again and again I got new and smart thoughts, I saw connections, and many things became very obvious to me. It was one of the strongest experiences of my life, maybe the strongest. To some other points of the video: "Yes", it is all about the soul, I fully understand what is said about the Greek philosophers and their statements. I completely agree. And this issue of life after death: maybe what I experienced was already something like that? It was overcoming death.
this is such a timely video for me, i am working on a long piece about lot's wife as a prototypical mystic, that a turn back toward the divine (even in horror, as your video mentions) leaves one totally changed. thank you for another great video
Mysticism in ancient Greece was very good. Nero requested initiation into the Eleusinian mysteries, and they refused. Now you'd expect them all to be executed, right? But they weren't. That's how highly-respected the Eleusinian initiates were.
Excellent, what it caught my attention is something that I've been thinking about for the last four years, and that is Poetry as a tool in mysticism. Once you start to see religions as an anthropological or social phenomenon, you can easily get the whole picture.
Man, every time I was about to ask a question, you answered it, particularly with regards to Plato's Esoteric teachings that he kept private to his closest pupils and confidantes. It leads me to believe he kept a somewhat gnostic view that direct experience is the only way to reveal truth and some things cannot be related through mere explanation or definition bound by the limitations of language.
Listening again, Filip. Thank you!!! Dionysius, The Elder, an ancient ruler of Syracuse in Sicily, about 430 B. C. When Siclily was invaded by the Carthaninians, he became a general in the service of Syaracuse, which then was a republic. In that year 406 he made himself a "tyrant" or ruler of Syracuse. He later continued the war agaist the Carthaninians, and was at first defeated, but afterwards gained a complete victory. He also engaged in many other military expeditions , and was one of the most important rulers of his time. Not content with his military reknown, he wrote poems and tragedies and at one time gained a prize at Athens for tragic poetry. He died in 367 b.c. Diogenes, the famous Greek philosopher from about 412 to 323 b.c. I could on and on but i will just listen to you, I cannot write fast enough on these technological cellphones. The lens of visionaries. Who tudors who? If only Socrates had a daughter, women are not second hand citizens, but where they in all of philosophy? You are a genius, Filip, and may I add I have learned many things from your videos and I thank you. By the way, your music is sublime. 🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎶🎵🎶
There were Ancient Greek women who taught philosophy and we do have the teaching of some of them. That being said, the records we have tend to be later than Plato et cetera.
In college during the early 1980s, I always read Plato through a mystical lens. It got me into a lot of trouble with the professors and, ultimately, with the college administration.
It was the early 1980s, so we all had Hamilton and Cairns “Plato’s Collected Dialogues.” I also studied some ancient Greek…so played around on that level. But, yes, I’m sure there are better translations out there now. Hackett? For mystical initiations and teachings, I went to Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana Dzogchen). A backround in Western Philosophy helped me to cut to the chase.
despite this being a topic that I felt like I had nearly exhausted, you have once again brought it back in an engaging, fresh, and interesting video. thank you so much, Filip!
For this Aristotelian, the Baccic frenzy of philosophy was such an intense love for ideas that sleep was banished, replaced by the desire to know and the total awe of my own self’s capacity to know.
Yes finally somebody that speaks about greek mysticism, i would add, those that we call philosophers, some of them, most of them, were mystics. Like pitagora, socrate, platone, dionige, seneca, empedocle, eraclito, parmenide, and many others where all wise mystics, mostly belinging to the "jnana yoga" shool.
@@LetsTalkReligion Hi! I define Mysticism as "everything that has to do with experience of the Divine", here the Key words are two "experience" and "Divine", experience because Mystics do not speak about God, do not belive about God, they have experiences, that are emprical to them. Divine and not God because usually God gives an idea of a Person, there Is also the "Person" but that Is not the deepest nature of "God", so the Divine Is more generale and more in tune with mysticism, the Divine Is that wich It the Self of all, the Absolute Reality. So i define Mystics in different levels, starting from where the experience of the Devine begins. Here with the Divine i mean where That "more" reality begins to enter in the mystic's life, in different forms. As soon as One begins to have experiences of the Divine, that i put It among Mystics. Even thou usually every time i use the word i specify in wich level i consider that to be. The highest level Is "Jana" (in hindu terminology), where one loses any sense of duality and separation and there Is only the Self that experience Himself as Absolute Bliss-Counscisness-Being, permanently, and this Is the difference,, so most of those that we call Saints or Mystics where not in this Higher state, but where in lower good state, like Bakhtas or Devotes ecc. In Christian Mysticism almos no mystic has riched this very advanced "state", (i put state in " " because It Is not a state, It Is our Natural "state"! It Is our Self, that Is way Is called Sahaja Samadhi), i don't Say this do discharge christian Mystics that i love a lot, but It Is a fact, One in Christian Mysticism Who went close to Jnana Is meister eckhart, but the Highest form of Realization we find them in India and in some areas with Buddhism. So surely Socrate, Platone, ecc were not the highest form of Mystics but surely they had deep develoment and advanced state of mind, their knowledge has strong mystical tendencies and can only be direct because there was not all the modern new age in wich Is very common to speak with no experience, and no reserch on NDEs or Reincarnation, so Who they got all those knowledge by themselves and all that wisdom about desires, peace, detachment, Reincarnation ecc, they had deep spiritual exiriences. That Is way i said them to be Mystics, some more some less. Even thous there was not religion as we mean It there at those times, they reached the same good levels of Mystic experience Just by philosofy and correct use of intelligence, they understood that desideres and pleasur of the senses brings the mind down to confusion and then applying the methods of wise detached egoless living they reached Deep state of peace , and this Is already Mysticism because Peace Is the Self or God. Union with God Is Just the dissolution of the restless Thoughts that make you belive you are separate from the Self, but in reality you are already the Self! So even withouth religions, visions, ecc, Just with intelligence and wisdom they did reach Deep myistical realizations, as every man can do Just by Understanding He Is Him self eternal peace. Thank you , have a good day🙏
I really enjoyed this video. It's practically a short summary for my college course my professor made. However, he titled it "Greek Religion". We did get to learn why the word choice of religion was poor and other substitutes, like "mysticism" and "ritualistic activities". Very nice to be able to have all of this material put together to help me comprehend his studies. Thank you!
Recently, studying the cinics, i have come to the conclusiom that, for ancient greeks, philosophy was indeed a very mistycal endeavor and a lifestyle, not just a rational train of thought.
Excellent content! I’d really be grateful to see you produce more content on Parmenides and his poem. Maybe something about how dactylic hexameter works as an incantation that profoundly affects the listener. Also, the academics who dismiss Parmenides proem as merely a poetic ornamentation rather than a genuine account of his katabatic shamanic journey to the underworld need to understand the recent archaeological discoveries in Velia. Archaeologists in Italy have unearthed his healing cave along with his herm statue and inscriptions that reveal absolutely fascinating information about him. He was the founding father of a lineage of healers who practiced incubation. He was an Ouliades and Iatromantis which means seer/prophet healer. There is no doubt whatsoever that Parmenides was a Greek shaman who practiced katabatic journeys as he describes in On Nature. He’s clearly describing the goddess Persephone in the proem which also demarcates the locus of this journey as being the underworld. Thanks for your content!
As usual expertly done. Your discourse of Greek mysticism makes it abundantly clear of the commonality of many ancient so called mystical practices. In these degenerative times we live in now, Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism practices make it possible for one to reach enlightenment in one lifetime minus the Gods influence, who are also trapped in the Samaric realms, as they were back then. American Gods series written by British author Neil Gaiman now on Starz, is very insightful and entertaining how the Gods life cycle plays out in the human realm.
Very vital part that was missed is Diotima's speech through socrates, in Symposium. Where textbook mystical terminology is utilised to express the different states of Eros. Also the Mysteries of Samothrace Kaveiria, and the Cretan mysteries in the cave "Zeus grew up" that are considered to be the highest initiation in the divine.
I've never encountered this idea of the ancient Greeks as being exclusivesly rational. There's always been a tension between the Apollonian and the Dionysian in our understanding of the Greeks. Their widely known myths, art, religion, and poetry clearly reflect their mysticism. Greek tragedy in particular reflects their intimate experience of irrational emotions.
This was such a great video and very refreshing look at Greek philosophy! I highly recommend that you check out the work of Pierre Grimes since I think he does a fantastic job making mystical connections with Platonic philosophy. He goes into how we translate Plato as well, and how much of what academics say today regarding his philosophy is often misconstrued and disregards anything that could be seen as mysticism.
I'm seeing a lot of connections here with the troubadours and the notion of love which seems very platonic in nature, likely through the latin authors and islamic thinkers prior. I'd be interested in seeing a future video on the idea of the plontius union with pyche and that part of the nous left in the upper world, and what connections you can draw to it, focusing on love across traditions as you know it. Seems like alchemy is there too.
I am of Greek descent. I went through something very similar to this which I referred to as an initiation without really knowing but I came to refer to as a Spiritual Awakening and Near Death Experience and Dark Night of the Soul. So many different names for the same experience.
As far as I am concerned Greek Philosophy is the principle source of Islamic philosophy and mysticism , It was Greek concept of" Sophia " which created "Sufism " , likewise Greek Gnosia was translated in erfan / irfan ( knowledge ), Ishraq is an Islamic version of Plotinus' philosophy .. ..Islamic logic per se is entirely based on Aristotelian logica .
In terms of the intellectual, "philosophical" aspects of Sufism, I agree with you (partly). As for falsafa, that is pretty overtly building parimarily on the greeks, yes.
Have been presenting insights from a Classicist perspective into this topic on TH-cam for nearly 3 years and barely scraped 4000 subs. Where is everybody?
Thank you so much Filip for yet another insightful, thought provoking video on a fascinating topic. It seems like there are many commonalities between these mystery cults and what we collectively call Tantra or Tantric practices in the Hindu-Buddhist tradition. Perhaps there existed an earlier, common origin? is there any indication of there being a mystical tradition in ancent Egypt, ancient mesopotamia or deep within proto-indo European sprititual beliefs? Would love to learn more!
Excellent job covering a complex topic. Since you asked what we're interested in, I'm interested in learning more about the history and evolution of Hermeticism from ancient times to the modern day - e.g. how much are modern quasi-Hermetic movements such as the Golden Dawn, Thelema, or the ONA directly influenced by ancient Hermeticism and how much are they modern reinterpretations? Also, I'm interested in Minoan religion, as the Ancient Greece Revisited channel has made some videos indicating a dichotomy between the matriarchal religion of the Minoans and the patriarchal religion(s) of later Greeks.
Great video. I know perennial philosophy has its detractors, but it's obvious to me how widespread certain ideas are. They cross pollinate real easily.
Loving you channel. I’d love to see some information on the Bwiti of Gabon and the history of their beliefs on mysticism, creation and initiation. Have you explored much on this group?
Nice, I'm really looking forward for thisone! 🤩 Thanks for the profound insights you share! Your content has not only broadened my understanding of various religions and cultures but also gave me a deeper insight into myself. 🌞🌺 One video that particularly resonated with me was your exploration of Lal Ded. It left me so inspired that I've decided to delve into the subject further on my own. Now I'm writing a paper an preparing a talk about her. However, I'm facing difficulty finding a high-res version of the cover image you used in your video about Lal Ded. I only find low-res versions. Could you kindly guide me to the source of the high-quality image ore share it with me? 🙏💓 I wish you continued success in your efforts to build bridges between cultures. Your work is truly making a positive impact and I look forward to more enlightening content from your channel!
What a coincidence 😆 In fact, I was also desperately looking for a high-resolution image of the oil painting Filip used in the cover picture of the Video about Lalleshwari. I wanted to frame and hang it in my ashram room, but I can only find it in poor quality.
I think the one I used was an AI-resolution-enhanced version of the lower res image. Also, I have been told afterwards that the image might not originally be meant to depict Lal Ded, but another female saint (not sure though). Would you still be interested in the image?
@@LetsTalkReligion But there is also a book with that picture on the cover called "The Book of Lalla Ded" by Paul Smith. 🤔 I would still love to have that picture. Which AI tool did you use to upscale it? Do you need a mail-adress or something or can you share it via cloud? Thank you very much! 🙏🤍
I think this is my favorite episode I've watched so far. Kudos from someone who has had mystic experiences and has been seeking meaning from, and exploring them for many years. Thank you. 🙏🏼💜✨
I would like to see a deep dive from someone on the time period right before nycean council. You had wide amounts of temples to auset/isis and it appears most knew of the mystery rights of Dionysus. It feels like an interesting time to be a practitioner in any of these faiths as the roman rule changed after Constantine.
Throughout our evolution our consciousness has become more dense. It’s rather egotistical of our society as believe the ancients were just like the humans of today’s epoch. We are currently so dense and it’s our job to remember who we once were. Thank you for yet another great video.
Look at the uninitated ,, says socrates in theaetatus I actually wrote a paper on mysticism in socrates and i was so happy thay you have said many of the things i have also said in my paper. Certainly you cannot overlook those mystic references and motifs along side with reason and rationality of course ;) besides, like always, learnt couple of new things as well so, thanks for the video.
Its great.. wonderful... opening and plugging a hole in rationalist interpretation. Im so glad you didnt allow the screamimg academic in you to put out the kindling embers of YOUR soul Filip. The Living Flame of Love needs these torches. Go for it. And the idea that beauty and love, wherever we find it in the everyday even... are the kindling potential we all need...to propel us into our soul nature....and to a stable source of refuge in these troubled crisis ridden times. This teaching is a must. Thank you.
Can you make a video on the religious reasons behind Cremation in india and partly in china vs burial in abrahamic / western religions vs leaving the dead in a remote place in zoroastrianism
Mysticism is universal because experience is universal. Theres many different types of mysticism, but those arent "universal." Hesycasm in the Orthodox church is not the same as some mystical practices that involve the ingestion of powerful psycho-active compounds for pagan rituals.
One thing I’ve noticed with the discussion of ‘philosophy vs mysticism’ is how arbitrary it all feels. Only later Greek philosophers like Celsus attacked mysteries and most ancient philosophers wouldn’t have considered themselves as truly seperate from the ‘mystics’ or find their work incompatible. Many of them were likely apart of mysteries and practiced mystic rites. It seems that with the rise of Christianity and then its later rejection and secularisation a the new philosophers painted an image of themselves and forced that image on everyone else. Which is irresponsible, arbitrary and inaccurate.
I remember a comment from the Pythagoras video, saying that he actually loved beans instead of hated beans. it said he didn't let people eat beans because they were sacred (I understood it as similar to Hinduism and cows). please address the bean allegations 😂
If you separate yourself from studying history and evolution, it’s clear to see human consciousness is a curious, rebelling, and determined force of nature hell-bent on trial and error in order to invent something new to rebel against. It’s a collective journey. And there’s enough peace in that to balance the madness.
A wonderful video as always. I’m actually in the middle of reading Peter Kingsley’s Ancient Philosophy, Mystery, and Magic which also covers Pythagoreanism, Orpheus and Plato, so this is a nice bit of synchronicity for me. I would encourage you to read Bruce Lincoln’s Waters of Memory, Waters of Forgetfulness, and Erick Dodge’s Orpheus, Odin, and the Indo-European Underworld, both of which talk about the connections between Orphic and other Indo-European traditions. Also, may be a good subject for a video too? Thanks again.
I have two questions after watching: -Considering that the existence of Orphism is uncertain, what can we know about the origin of the Orphic Hymns? -Should Platonic discussions of eros be considered the same as or separate from the deity Eros?
I'm still in 4:30 but I must note that I find a parallel between the muses that inspire poetry and Shayateen Al Shir (Demons/Spirits of Poetry) which were also believed to inspire the poet, according to the ancient Arabs! (I'm going to use my replies as personal notes)
The part about Baccheia reminded me of what later became known as Female Hysteria, medically (unfortunately) but more than that the ritual of Zaar in Sudan and Egypt, still going on today, which strictly involves women.
The Elusinian cult and simulating death, as release and transformation is the same idea in the Death tarot card. Death is synonymous with transformation in tarot. It is also seen as new beginnings. The involvement of music reminds me of Sufi rituals which also resulted in attaining a higher state of consciousness.
Thank you. Your content is resonating with me. I don’t think I saw in your channel a video on the mystical experience in budhisem. The Jhanas. A suggestion❤
I feel like it’s common knowledge that Ancient Greece was not COMPLETELY rational. Everyone knows the most famous pantheon of ancient gods. Mythology is common knowledge.
Fun fact :: in the Later Antiquity Philosopher Plutarch of the 2nd and 4th Century AD, was more essential , confluent and dynamic embraced compared to Plato and Aristotle, Plutarch highly respected Socrates, but focused on the culty nature studies of Pythagoras, that is immersed in Occultic Esoteric teachings of Hellenism. Furthermore, Plutarch and his disciples began a Neoplatonic philosophical groundwork as well as framework, that permeated into the Mainstream Abrahamic religions we have today, such as the Oneness of the Monad, various Gnostic schools like the Sethians, Basilideans and the Mandaens. It is also known by various Roman and Greek Philosophy at the time Plutarch was immensely influential on Hermes Trigestumus of Alexandria.
Maybe because mysticism is so respectful already, it seems naturally logical to be connected witha pleasant afterlife, And mysticism is so self-masterful, it seems naturally logical to be able to have a choice about the afterlife. self-mastery=respectful
Great job, as usual, but especially this time, because you broached a most important thread in "connecting the dots." Reason leads directly to mysticism when Reason is indeed followed faithfully. (Irrationalism too often masquerades as rationalism in this world of limitation, which believes that rationalism is to try and reduce limitless and abstract Truth to a limited and finite understanding!) And Parmenides is key to illustrating this connection (between the West and the East), as my book makes clear. Limitation must be recognized as IRRATIONAL (by definition) in order to make room for The Rational in one's mind. And "The Philosopher's Stone" is then found to be the foundation of all truly rational (whole) Thought; The Philosopher's Stone being the simple and yet most profound fact that "GOD" is The Mind that is ALL. There it is. But one has not FOUND the Philosopher's Stone until one has found very good reason to believe that this is true! Experience is required.
Amazing work! I've always found it odd that otherwise very educated people seem to discount the very clear evidence that the philosophers and other high-ranking individuals of ancient Greece and Rome were somehow atheists who denied any sort of greater spiritual existence, when there are many instances otherwise.
Sorry about the video being out of focus for a while midway through!
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No worries about the focus! I was finally able to make out some of the smaller titles on your bookshelf. Made my day. 😊 There is always a silver lining.
It was so full of information, I hadn’t even noticed the blurring.
Great job, as usual, but especially this time, because you broached a most important thread in "connecting the dots." Reason leads directly to mysticism when Reason is indeed followed faithfully. (Irrationalism too often masquerades as rationalism in this world of limitation, which believes that rationalism is to try and reduce limitless and abstract Truth to a limited and finite understanding!) And Parmenides is key to illustrating this connection (between the West and the East), as my book makes clear. Limitation must be recognized as IRRATIONAL (by definition) in order to make room for The Rational in one's mind. And "The Philosopher's Stone" is then found to be the foundation of all truly rational (whole) Thought; The Philosopher's Stone being the simple and yet most profound fact that "GOD" is The Mind that is ALL. There it is. But one has not FOUND the Philosopher's Stone until one has found very good reason to believe that this is true! Experience is required.
If the 12th amam is, as shiet are saying, is sunny! How do them and the rest of different Islam faith explain themselves?
This was a fantastically thorough yet concise overview of a vast subject I've been studying for decades. You brought together many disparate threads elegantly. I had never heard that Plutarch quote on the Eleusinian mysteries, so thanks for including that. Thanks as always Filip!
Well it makes me especially happy to hear that from you, Dan! Thank you so much!
@@LetsTalkReligion It brings me so much joy to see this particular community of creators in the philisophy, esotericism, occultism, mysticism and religion genre thrive and interact with one another. Growing up in my teens when TH-cam was created I didn't have the luxery of what you few wonderful folk have woven together with academic yet open minded approaches but instead was autofed biased religious propaganda, biased atheist propaganda, insane conspiracy theories and people who in retrospect had severe mental illnessness bringing in others into their delusions (both spreading delusions and imbedding further those of the creator in themselves).
Even later in my life when I joined the OTO I thought the information I was getting was going to be more accurate but it turns out Crowley didn't really know much about the Eleusinian Mysteries or Gnosticism but put both as main themes to his philosophy. I'm glad I left the OTO and have begun walking my own path... a path in which you folk have played a key part. I came close to closing the door on anything but personsl direct mystical experiences and studying non-wooey science like physics and chemistry to understand reality and try to find possible explanations for ineffable and implausible experiences I've had on my journey... but the videos created by both of you and Justin and Angela and many others like Seekers of Unity and the rest of the gang refueled my love for history and philosophy, symbolism and the study of how others (not just my own direct experiences) understand reality and consciousness, divinity and the nature of the individual.
Thank you. May your lives be full of love, light, insight, revelation and excitement :)
Edit: note I still love science and view it as my primary "religion" not in the scientism sense but in the sense that to me by definition if one were to take all experimentally sound science known in the past, present and yet to be future you end up describing the workings and nature of Divinity itself. All i meant was I nearly stopped studying and appreciating correlating my mystical experiences with my love of science when I let go of dogmatic Thelema
This guy makes good videos
@@LetsTalkReligion @LetsTalkReligion It brings me so much joy to see this particular community of creators in the philisophy, esotericism, occultism, mysticism and religion genre thrive and interact with one another. Growing up in my teens when TH-cam was created I didn't have the luxery of what you few wonderful folk have woven together with academic yet open minded approaches but instead was autofed biased religious propaganda, biased atheist propaganda, insane conspiracy theories and people who in retrospect had severe mental illnessness bringing in others into their delusions (both spreading delusions and imbedding further those of the creator in themselves).
Even later in my life when I joined the OTO I thought the information I was getting was going to be more accurate but it turns out Crowley didn't really know much about the Eleusinian Mysteries or Gnosticism but put both as main themes to his philosophy. I'm glad I left the OTO and have begun walking my own path... a path in which you folk have played a key part. I came close to closing the door on anything but personsl direct mystical experiences and studying non-wooey science like physics and chemistry to understand reality and try to find possible explanations for ineffable and implausible experiences I've had on my journey... but the videos created by both of you and Justin and Angela and many others like Seekers rereading what I wrote I realized it may sound like you all turned me against science when the opposite is true! I still love science and view it as my primary "religion" not in the scientism sense but in the sense that to me by definition if one were to take all experimentally sound science known in the past, present and yet to be future you end up describing the workings and nature of Divinity itself. All i meant was I nearly stopped studying and appreciating correlating my mystical experiences with my love of science when I let go of dogmatic Thelema and left the OTO
I appreciate you both so much ❤
The immense influence of such eastern Mediterranean mystery cults on the early development of Christianity is an underrated notion as well.
Yeah, I agree. Notice how the initiation rituals in the mystery cults involve a symbolic death and rebirth by reenacting the experience of a deity who either dies and resurrects (Dionysus, Osiris, the sun god in the Isis mysteries) or goes down into the underworld and rises out of it (Persephone/Kore, the sun in the Isis mysteries). Now read Paul's interpretation of baptism where he describes it as a ritual death and resurrection/rebirth that emulates the death and resurrection of Jesus. All of these cults and Christianity offer salvation from death or a happy afterlife. A lot of these rituals are found in the ancient Egyptian mortuary cult which revolved around the deaths and resurrections of Osiris and the sun god.
Diodorus Siculus in his Library of Histories 1.96.4-6 writes:
"Orpheus, for instance, brought from Egypt most of his mystic ceremonies, the orgiastic rites that accompanied his wanderings, and his fabulous account of his experiences in Hades. For the rite of Osiris is the same as that of Dionysus and that of Isis very similar to that of Demeter, the names alone having been interchanged; and the punishments in Hades of the unrighteous, the Fields of the Righteous, and the fantastic conceptions, current among the many, which are figments of the imagination - *all these were introduced by Orpheus in imitation of the Egyptian funeral customs."*
This deep dive into the mystical and philosophical aspects of ancient Greece challenges the commonly held perception of this era as solely the cradle of rationalism and logic. It's intriguing to see how deeply intertwined mysticism, altered states of consciousness, and religious practices were with the philosophical inquiries of figures like Plato, Parmenides, and Socrates. The exploration of mystery cults, the Eleusinian Mysteries, and the Bacchic rituals, alongside the philosophical mysticism evident in Plato's dialogues, underscores a complex culture where the quest for knowledge encompassed both the rational and the transcendental. It's a reminder that our ancestors recognized multiple pathways to understanding reality, valuing both the intellect and experiences beyond the ordinary. This video serves as a compelling invitation to reconsider our historical narratives and acknowledge the rich panorama of human thought and spiritual exploration in ancient Greece. Thank you for shedding light on this often overlooked aspect of ancient Greek culture and inviting us to broaden our understanding of their legacy.
Honestly, I'd like you to do videos: 1) The maniots who practiced Greek paganism up until the 9th century, as they've pretty interesting as an ethnic subgroup of Greeks.
2) Modern-day Neopaganism in Greece as well, as it'd be cool to see how they compare to their ancient ancestors.
*videos on:
That's ultra based, I'm Greek and thats the energy you love to see in the ancient world. Never heard of it now I have a new rabbit hole to go down.
I would, in fact, also be very interested in seeing how acutely he can try to identify and coalesce modern locations of divine attributes and “gods” in our seemingly secular globalized society
@@donaldmcdonald3434 ✊🏼🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
Yes please
Thank you for making this video. These ideas, the role of mysticism in ancient Greek philosophy, this is how my professor Tom Trelogan introduced his students to ancient philosophy, and it kindled my love for the search and study of wisdom/truth.
I had similar experiences. I do not know, what I should write here - maybe... okey: there was some event, where I got in fear of dying, and suddenly it switched over to some kind of bliss. Or maybe it was real bliss. I do not know. First I was kind of fighting death for a while, but then I thought: let it happen, let it happen... And then it switched over. It was a real and full release and also a full surrender to it. I got calm and blissful, my spine grew warm, very pleasantly warm. My breath was calm, free, and healthy. It was an unbelievable experience. It lasted for about 3 hours or so - this very strong experience. I totally lost fear and got somehow free. (Maybe this was something which is called here in this video "initiation"? I don't know.) Then I had reflections on many things. I also thought - in the face of death - what should I do with my life, with my remaining lifetime? Living the positive only, that was my decision. Living what is the good thing, the right thing, the positive thing - what I consider positive. Being it. Doing it. I made this decision just for me and myself in this process - I mean it was a totally individual decision -, and I stayed with it since then. Later, when this kind of strong experience was over I remained in a thinking process for quite a while, right after this very intensive experience and also for a month or so at least. Again and again I had to think about it, about many issues. It was not a strong and strict way of thinking, more a soft and revealing way. Again and again I got new and smart thoughts, I saw connections, and many things became very obvious to me. It was one of the strongest experiences of my life, maybe the strongest.
To some other points of the video: "Yes", it is all about the soul, I fully understand what is said about the Greek philosophers and their statements. I completely agree.
And this issue of life after death: maybe what I experienced was already something like that? It was overcoming death.
Absolutely delightful work. A rich goldmine of clarity and rigor. Thank you Filip.
this is such a timely video for me, i am working on a long piece about lot's wife as a prototypical mystic, that a turn back toward the divine (even in horror, as your video mentions) leaves one totally changed. thank you for another great video
More please! Love Pre-Socratic nostalgia.
I really enjoyed learning from this as I am currently reading "Philosophy as a Rite of Rebirth" by Algis Uždavinys.
I have that book I need to read it😅
Mysticism in ancient Greece was very good. Nero requested initiation into the Eleusinian mysteries, and they refused. Now you'd expect them all to be executed, right? But they weren't. That's how highly-respected the Eleusinian initiates were.
Excellent, what it caught my attention is something that I've been thinking about for the last four years, and that is Poetry as a tool in mysticism. Once you start to see religions as an anthropological or social phenomenon, you can easily get the whole picture.
Man, every time I was about to ask a question, you answered it, particularly with regards to Plato's Esoteric teachings that he kept private to his closest pupils and confidantes. It leads me to believe he kept a somewhat gnostic view that direct experience is the only way to reveal truth and some things cannot be related through mere explanation or definition bound by the limitations of language.
Listening again, Filip. Thank you!!!
Dionysius, The Elder, an ancient ruler of Syracuse in Sicily, about 430 B. C. When Siclily was invaded by the Carthaninians, he became a general in the service of Syaracuse, which then was a republic. In that year 406 he made himself a "tyrant" or ruler of Syracuse. He later continued the war agaist the Carthaninians, and was at first defeated, but afterwards gained a complete victory. He also engaged in many other military expeditions , and was one of the most important rulers of his time. Not content with his military reknown, he wrote poems and tragedies and at one time gained a prize at Athens for tragic poetry. He died in 367 b.c.
Diogenes, the famous Greek philosopher from about 412 to 323 b.c.
I could on and on but i will just listen to you, I cannot write fast enough on these technological cellphones.
The lens of visionaries.
Who tudors who?
If only Socrates had a daughter, women are not second hand citizens, but where they in all of philosophy?
You are a genius, Filip, and may I add I have learned many things from your videos and I thank you. By the way, your music is sublime.
🙏❤️🌎🌿🕊🎶🎵🎶
I'm definitely not a genius, but I'm glad you like my music! 😊
There were Ancient Greek women who taught philosophy and we do have the teaching of some of them. That being said, the records we have tend to be later than Plato et cetera.
46 minutes of excellence coming up. Love this channel.
In college during the early 1980s, I always read Plato through a mystical lens. It got me into a lot of trouble with the professors and, ultimately, with the college administration.
It was the early 1980s, so we all had Hamilton and Cairns “Plato’s Collected Dialogues.” I also studied some ancient Greek…so played around on that level.
But, yes, I’m sure there are better translations out there now. Hackett?
For mystical initiations and teachings, I went to Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana Dzogchen). A backround in Western Philosophy helped me to cut to the chase.
That sounds pretty bad ass :)
I am so glad this is a successful channel.
despite this being a topic that I felt like I had nearly exhausted, you have once again brought it back in an engaging, fresh, and interesting video. thank you so much, Filip!
For this Aristotelian, the Baccic frenzy of philosophy was such an intense love for ideas that sleep was banished, replaced by the desire to know and the total awe of my own self’s capacity to know.
Petition for a video about Maximus the Confessor !
Interesting video on ancient Greek society, especially explaining an aspect we may not typically consider
That was fantastic. Incredibly clear and insightful. Loved it.
Yes finally somebody that speaks about greek mysticism, i would add, those that we call philosophers, some of them, most of them, were mystics. Like pitagora, socrate, platone, dionige, seneca, empedocle, eraclito, parmenide, and many others where all wise mystics, mostly belinging to the "jnana yoga" shool.
How do you define a mystic?
@@LetsTalkReligion Hi! I define Mysticism as "everything that has to do with experience of the Divine", here the Key words are two "experience" and "Divine", experience because Mystics do not speak about God, do not belive about God, they have experiences, that are emprical to them. Divine and not God because usually God gives an idea of a Person, there Is also the "Person" but that Is not the deepest nature of "God", so the Divine Is more generale and more in tune with mysticism, the Divine Is that wich It the Self of all, the Absolute Reality. So i define Mystics in different levels, starting from where the experience of the Devine begins. Here with the Divine i mean where That "more" reality begins to enter in the mystic's life, in different forms. As soon as One begins to have experiences of the Divine, that i put It among Mystics. Even thou usually every time i use the word i specify in wich level i consider that to be. The highest level Is "Jana" (in hindu terminology), where one loses any sense of duality and separation and there Is only the Self that experience Himself as Absolute Bliss-Counscisness-Being, permanently, and this Is the difference,, so most of those that we call Saints or Mystics where not in this Higher state, but where in lower good state, like Bakhtas or Devotes ecc. In Christian Mysticism almos no mystic has riched this very advanced "state", (i put state in " " because It Is not a state, It Is our Natural "state"! It Is our Self, that Is way Is called Sahaja Samadhi), i don't Say this do discharge christian Mystics that i love a lot, but It Is a fact, One in Christian Mysticism Who went close to Jnana Is meister eckhart, but the Highest form of Realization we find them in India and in some areas with Buddhism.
So surely Socrate, Platone, ecc were not the highest form of Mystics but surely they had deep develoment and advanced state of mind, their knowledge has strong mystical tendencies and can only be direct because there was not all the modern new age in wich Is very common to speak with no experience, and no reserch on NDEs or Reincarnation, so Who they got all those knowledge by themselves and all that wisdom about desires, peace, detachment, Reincarnation ecc, they had deep spiritual exiriences. That Is way i said them to be Mystics, some more some less. Even thous there was not religion as we mean It there at those times, they reached the same good levels of Mystic experience Just by philosofy and correct use of intelligence, they understood that desideres and pleasur of the senses brings the mind down to confusion and then applying the methods of wise detached egoless living they reached Deep state of peace , and this Is already Mysticism because Peace Is the Self or God. Union with God Is Just the dissolution of the restless Thoughts that make you belive you are separate from the Self, but in reality you are already the Self! So even withouth religions, visions, ecc, Just with intelligence and wisdom they did reach Deep myistical realizations, as every man can do Just by Understanding He Is Him self eternal peace.
Thank you , have a good day🙏
Love this episode. Fantastic content as always. Thank you
Such an eye-opening and interesting video. Thank you for the great work you put together, Filip!
I really enjoyed this video. It's practically a short summary for my college course my professor made. However, he titled it "Greek Religion". We did get to learn why the word choice of religion was poor and other substitutes, like "mysticism" and "ritualistic activities". Very nice to be able to have all of this material put together to help me comprehend his studies. Thank you!
I love all your videos but this is the one I've been waiting for... Excellent job!
Thank you for making this.
What a amazing work. Thanks for all your effort.
A most beautiful presentation - the music is gorgeous.💐
Fascinated. Thank you for exploring this topic that seems to underpin so much of the wisdom teachings. Wonderful graphics and vids.
Recently, studying the cinics, i have come to the conclusiom that, for ancient greeks, philosophy was indeed a very mistycal endeavor and a lifestyle, not just a rational train of thought.
Excellent content!
I’d really be grateful to see you produce more content on Parmenides and his poem. Maybe something about how dactylic hexameter works as an incantation that profoundly affects the listener.
Also, the academics who dismiss Parmenides proem as merely a poetic ornamentation rather than a genuine account of his katabatic shamanic journey to the underworld need to understand the recent archaeological discoveries in Velia.
Archaeologists in Italy have unearthed his healing cave along with his herm statue and inscriptions that reveal absolutely fascinating information about him. He was the founding father of a lineage of healers who practiced incubation. He was an Ouliades and Iatromantis which means seer/prophet healer. There is no doubt whatsoever that Parmenides was a Greek shaman who practiced katabatic journeys as he describes in On Nature.
He’s clearly describing the goddess Persephone in the proem which also demarcates the locus of this journey as being the underworld.
Thanks for your content!
As usual expertly done. Your discourse of Greek mysticism makes it abundantly clear of the commonality of many ancient so called mystical practices. In these degenerative times we live in now, Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism practices make it possible for one to reach enlightenment in one lifetime minus the Gods influence, who are also trapped in the Samaric realms, as they were back then. American Gods series written by British author Neil Gaiman now on Starz, is very insightful and entertaining how the Gods life cycle plays out in the human realm.
It would help to have some kind of timeline threading through the story, because what I've discerned in the progress of the Grecian myths, through the passage of time, is they seem to be connected to real events. Some of our oldest anecdotal information about the very distant past comes to us from Greek myths: Prometheus, and the attainment of "fire" (or, more accurately, the control of fire), the arrival of Zeus (Jupiter), and later, Athena, and the disposition of the Titans, something that bespeaks of forces we can only guess at, but fear to understand. I think, what we term "mysticism" was more a function of the ancients trying to decipher a world gone mad, for nearly two millennia, than any impetus to "decode" the mysteries of life.
The quote from Plutarch exemplifies what I mean, "...wandering, and wearisome roaming ...fearful journeys ... endless darkness ... every sort of terror, shuddering and trembling and sweat and amazement ..." speaks to the catastrophes, cataclysms, and deadly dangers at every turn, also described in other myths, legends, and Bible stories from the same general time. Something very bad happened (long before Plutarch lived, as evidenced by the closing sentences), not once, not twice, but again, and again, and again, ultimately bringing about the Fall of Empires, including the Mycenae, in the 12th Century, when Jews, and Zoroaster, and very probably, Akhenaten, too, became monotheistic.
If I am correct about this (and two of three are verified), titanic events eclipsed the sovereignty of Man, wham, bam, thank you ma'am, three times in a row, circa 1206BC, 1154BC, and 1102BC, as dramatically, and profoundly, as Joshua, Exodus, the Tower of Babel incident, and Noah, had, before them. These events changed the world from its former appearance, into something closer to what we know today. Truly, those surviving would have "emerged into the light", leaving behind the crowded crush of survivors struggling to free themselves.
Plutarch lived AFTER Plato, at the beginning of the modern era. Plato would have been almost mythic to him, separated by almost 500 years (think of Henry VII, father of the famous Henry). His ideas about the past of nearly two millennia before would have been as removed as our own, if by a few less degrees. Plato was already removed from the events of the Fall of Empires by nearly a millennium, achieving maturity about 400BC, almost 800 years after the Fall of Empires. He repeated, and recorded, in some instances, what he had learned from earlier anecdotal sources, weaving them into his philosophy, in much the way Plutarch weaves the elements into his description. Using known values to describe unknown situations and conditions, then offering an opinion on how such changes for the better would be perceived.
The Eleusinian Mysteries are probably trace remnants of the arrival of Zeus, who disposed the Titans, banishing the gas giants to the outer reaches of the Solar System. Zeus, or Jupiter as we know him, was probably a proto-star that didn't ignite, dragging a lot of debris from supernovas along with him, including what would become Athena, a planetary body too large to survive in thrall to the planet. The vastness of space crossed by the gas giant would have kept the smaller body in line, but once it took its place in the Solar System, Sol's more powerful affects would have quickly changed that. We are told Athena was "born fully formed, already armored" from the forehead of Zeus, her "father". What was far more likely was the cloud cover on the proto-planet was so reflective, it looked like a spotlight emerging in the darkness.
Athena was known to the middle- and late-Minoan civilization, pushing her "arrival" back into the mists of history, at the beginning of the Mycenaean culture, by circa 1800BC. I suspect the story of Athena is almost as old as the story of Prometheus, who "gave fire to humans", only slightly less distant than the arrival of Zeus. Orpheus may be a 12th Century BC figure who lived during the time of the "first" Trojan War (Homer conflated a 12th Century "war" he'd learned songs and poems about from an early age, with the one he participated in, during the late 8th Century BC).
Our story of Eve (never mind Adam) is another memory trace remnant, the only "piece" of some very drastic occurrence still extant, after about 100,000, to 200,000, years. Something cut us off from 95-98% of our very ancient past, leaving us with faint traces, implausible-unless-true suggestions, frightening possibilities, and long-dead campfires. Whatever happened to our ancestors before the Scythians, before the Chaldean Sumerians, before the Egyptians, is a true mystery, so completely lost to us, we can only guess at their existence.
This is our past, a confusing snarl of misinformation and misinterpreted events, overlaid with the hubris humans are uniquely capable of bringing to bear, in a miasma of religion, "mythology", and human divinations, most of them incorrect, ill-advised, and/or illogical. There is a narrative that carries through all the window dressing that has been applied over the last 3 millennia and more, but it tells a story denied by those who preen as "experts", or "religious leaders", because it speaks to the violent nature of the Universe we inhabit, and there is nothing scarier, that we've ever encountered!
©BW2024 03/08/2024
anarchitek™
Very vital part that was missed is Diotima's speech through socrates, in Symposium. Where textbook mystical terminology is utilised to express the different states of Eros. Also the Mysteries of Samothrace Kaveiria, and the Cretan mysteries in the cave "Zeus grew up" that are considered to be the highest initiation in the divine.
I've never encountered this idea of the ancient Greeks as being exclusivesly rational. There's always been a tension between the Apollonian and the Dionysian in our understanding of the Greeks. Their widely known myths, art, religion, and poetry clearly reflect their mysticism. Greek tragedy in particular reflects their intimate experience of irrational emotions.
Another great video! Would love to see you cover pre-columbian American religion at some point. Keep up the great work!
Yes, I've been meaning to cover that for a while!
This was such a great video and very refreshing look at Greek philosophy! I highly recommend that you check out the work of Pierre Grimes since I think he does a fantastic job making mystical connections with Platonic philosophy. He goes into how we translate Plato as well, and how much of what academics say today regarding his philosophy is often misconstrued and disregards anything that could be seen as mysticism.
I'm seeing a lot of connections here with the troubadours and the notion of love which seems very platonic in nature, likely through the latin authors and islamic thinkers prior. I'd be interested in seeing a future video on the idea of the plontius union with pyche and that part of the nous left in the upper world, and what connections you can draw to it, focusing on love across traditions as you know it. Seems like alchemy is there too.
I am of Greek descent. I went through something very similar to this which I referred to as an initiation without really knowing but I came to refer to as a Spiritual Awakening and Near Death Experience and Dark Night of the Soul. So many different names for the same experience.
As far as I am concerned Greek Philosophy is the principle source of Islamic philosophy and mysticism , It was Greek concept of" Sophia " which created "Sufism " , likewise Greek Gnosia was translated in erfan / irfan ( knowledge ), Ishraq is an Islamic version of Plotinus' philosophy .. ..Islamic logic per se is entirely based on Aristotelian logica .
In terms of the intellectual, "philosophical" aspects of Sufism, I agree with you (partly).
As for falsafa, that is pretty overtly building parimarily on the greeks, yes.
If you read republic or some Platos dialogs, and if you have read sufism (particular of sunni one), you will be pretty much at home.
Ah, that makes sense. The only good part of Islam, Sufism, isn't even properly Islamic. Go figure!
I absolutely love this topic
As do I!
Have been presenting insights from a Classicist perspective into this topic on TH-cam for nearly 3 years and barely scraped 4000 subs. Where is everybody?
Thank you so much Filip for yet another insightful, thought provoking video on a fascinating topic. It seems like there are many commonalities between these mystery cults and what we collectively call Tantra or Tantric practices in the Hindu-Buddhist tradition. Perhaps there existed an earlier, common origin? is there any indication of there being a mystical tradition in ancent Egypt, ancient mesopotamia or deep within proto-indo European sprititual beliefs? Would love to learn more!
On that note, I'd love more videos on Buddhism, Vajrayana, and especially on the Greco-Buddhism of Bactria and beyond
Excellent job covering a complex topic. Since you asked what we're interested in, I'm interested in learning more about the history and evolution of Hermeticism from ancient times to the modern day - e.g. how much are modern quasi-Hermetic movements such as the Golden Dawn, Thelema, or the ONA directly influenced by ancient Hermeticism and how much are they modern reinterpretations? Also, I'm interested in Minoan religion, as the Ancient Greece Revisited channel has made some videos indicating a dichotomy between the matriarchal religion of the Minoans and the patriarchal religion(s) of later Greeks.
Great video. I know perennial philosophy has its detractors, but it's obvious to me how widespread certain ideas are. They cross pollinate real easily.
Loving you channel. I’d love to see some information on the Bwiti of Gabon and the history of their beliefs on mysticism, creation and initiation. Have you explored much on this group?
Amazing work , Thank you
Nice, I'm really looking forward for thisone! 🤩
Thanks for the profound insights you share! Your content has not only broadened my understanding of various religions and cultures but also gave me a deeper insight into myself. 🌞🌺
One video that particularly resonated with me was your exploration of Lal Ded. It left me so inspired that I've decided to delve into the subject further on my own. Now I'm writing a paper an preparing a talk about her. However, I'm facing difficulty finding a high-res version of the cover image you used in your video about Lal Ded. I only find low-res versions. Could you kindly guide me to the source of the high-quality image ore share it with me?
🙏💓
I wish you continued success in your efforts to build bridges between cultures. Your work is truly making a positive impact and I look forward to more enlightening content from your channel!
What a coincidence 😆 In fact, I was also desperately looking for a high-resolution image of the oil painting Filip used in the cover picture of the Video about Lalleshwari. I wanted to frame and hang it in my ashram room, but I can only find it in poor quality.
I think the one I used was an AI-resolution-enhanced version of the lower res image.
Also, I have been told afterwards that the image might not originally be meant to depict Lal Ded, but another female saint (not sure though). Would you still be interested in the image?
@@LetsTalkReligion Yes, I would like the painting too, even if it's AI-optimized. Thank you! 😇🍀
@@LetsTalkReligion But there is also a book with that picture on the cover called "The Book of Lalla Ded" by Paul Smith. 🤔 I would still love to have that picture. Which AI tool did you use to upscale it? Do you need a mail-adress or something or can you share it via cloud? Thank you very much! 🙏🤍
I think this is my favorite episode I've watched so far. Kudos from someone who has had mystic experiences and has been seeking meaning from, and exploring them for many years. Thank you. 🙏🏼💜✨
So excited to watch! Hope you touch on the Oracles and and how much the Greeks loved their divination! I'm a Thoth reader and Greek so I'm pumped.
As a Greek person, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a hefty amount of mysticism in ancient Greek life.
Thank you, very interesting.
I would like to see a deep dive from someone on the time period right before nycean council. You had wide amounts of temples to auset/isis and it appears most knew of the mystery rights of Dionysus. It feels like an interesting time to be a practitioner in any of these faiths as the roman rule changed after Constantine.
Throughout our evolution our consciousness has become more dense. It’s rather egotistical of our society as believe the ancients were just like the humans of today’s epoch. We are currently so dense and it’s our job to remember who we once were. Thank you for yet another great video.
The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name, by Brian C. Muraresku is another great read on this theme.
You forgot the incredible mystical group of Kabele from Anatolia which invoked more mystical powers
Look at the uninitated ,, says socrates in theaetatus
I actually wrote a paper on mysticism in socrates and i was so happy thay you have said many of the things i have also said in my paper. Certainly you cannot overlook those mystic references and motifs along side with reason and rationality of course ;) besides, like always, learnt couple of new things as well so, thanks for the video.
Can you give a link to your paper
Anything on ancient Celtic, Scythian, etc. religion would be cool. Keep it up.
Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍
Thank you for making a video specifically tailored to my interests.
Its great.. wonderful... opening and plugging a hole in rationalist interpretation. Im so glad you didnt allow the screamimg academic in you to put out the kindling embers of YOUR soul Filip. The Living Flame of Love needs these torches. Go for it.
And the idea that beauty and love, wherever we find it in the everyday even... are the kindling potential we all need...to propel us into our soul nature....and to a stable source of refuge in these troubled crisis ridden times. This teaching is a must. Thank you.
Can you make a video on the religious reasons behind Cremation in india and partly in china vs burial in abrahamic / western religions vs leaving the dead in a remote place in zoroastrianism
I'm not sure if there's an entire long format video in this specific topic but I would also be interested in it.
So Mysticism is universal, got it.
E. By 'universal', I meant 'present in almost all cultures'. Also, this comment was posted before the premiere.
Why is this so funny to me 😂🙈
I dont know. Why is it so funny to you?@@JorgeHernandez-nw8ry
Exactly. Mysticism is Universal.
Mysticism is universal because experience is universal. Theres many different types of mysticism, but those arent "universal." Hesycasm in the Orthodox church is not the same as some mystical practices that involve the ingestion of powerful psycho-active compounds for pagan rituals.
Mechanical Pencil
Magisterial, as always. Thanks for all your work.
One thing I’ve noticed with the discussion of ‘philosophy vs mysticism’ is how arbitrary it all feels. Only later Greek philosophers like Celsus attacked mysteries and most ancient philosophers wouldn’t have considered themselves as truly seperate from the ‘mystics’ or find their work incompatible. Many of them were likely apart of mysteries and practiced mystic rites. It seems that with the rise of Christianity and then its later rejection and secularisation a the new philosophers painted an image of themselves and forced that image on everyone else. Which is irresponsible, arbitrary and inaccurate.
This is just incredible! Just wonderful
Thanks
Need a mysticism playlist for this channel haha
I remember a comment from the Pythagoras video, saying that he actually loved beans instead of hated beans. it said he didn't let people eat beans because they were sacred (I understood it as similar to Hinduism and cows). please address the bean allegations 😂
If you separate yourself from studying history and evolution, it’s clear to see human consciousness is a curious, rebelling, and determined force of nature hell-bent on trial and error in order to invent something new to rebel against. It’s a collective journey. And there’s enough peace in that to balance the madness.
0:10 Wrong! I'll always mention mythology. I always found it more memorable than philosophy when it comes to Ancient Greeks :)
You’re coming back!
A wonderful video as always. I’m actually in the middle of reading Peter Kingsley’s Ancient Philosophy, Mystery, and Magic which also covers Pythagoreanism, Orpheus and Plato, so this is a nice bit of synchronicity for me. I would encourage you to read Bruce Lincoln’s Waters of Memory, Waters of Forgetfulness, and Erick Dodge’s Orpheus, Odin, and the Indo-European Underworld, both of which talk about the connections between Orphic and other Indo-European traditions. Also, may be a good subject for a video too? Thanks again.
Kingsley's book is great!
same here
I have two questions after watching:
-Considering that the existence of Orphism is uncertain, what can we know about the origin of the Orphic Hymns?
-Should Platonic discussions of eros be considered the same as or separate from the deity Eros?
@31:17 I've always wondered how much Miester Eckhart was influenced by Plato.
Not sure he woud have read much Plato (except Timaeus probably), but he was undoubtedly influenced by the Neoplatonists (if indirectly)
Love your videos
Thank you for another great video
Ur appreciated
I'm still in 4:30 but I must note that I find a parallel between the muses that inspire poetry and Shayateen Al Shir (Demons/Spirits of Poetry) which were also believed to inspire the poet, according to the ancient Arabs! (I'm going to use my replies as personal notes)
The part about Baccheia reminded me of what later became known as Female Hysteria, medically (unfortunately) but more than that the ritual of Zaar in Sudan and Egypt, still going on today, which strictly involves women.
The Elusinian cult and simulating death, as release and transformation is the same idea in the Death tarot card. Death is synonymous with transformation in tarot. It is also seen as new beginnings. The involvement of music reminds me of Sufi rituals which also resulted in attaining a higher state of consciousness.
I hope one day you make a video about Iamblichus and Theurgy.
Fascinating!
Thank you for sharing.
Profound and insightful as always
One of your best videos so far.
Something on the transition from ancient greek-roman religion to christianity in the future perhaps?
Thank you. Your content is resonating with me. I don’t think I saw in your channel a video on the mystical experience in budhisem. The Jhanas. A suggestion❤
Another great video. I love your music too.
Also Orphics believed in reincarnations and that people are born again and they aspired freedom from that state (and I think also divinity).
I feel like it’s common knowledge that Ancient Greece was not COMPLETELY rational. Everyone knows the most famous pantheon of ancient gods. Mythology is common knowledge.
I’m convinced in 300 years scholars will be talking about your channel. You will join these figures.
@@AvaAdore-wx5gg I’m sure people said the same thing of fans of Spinoza
The Stoics and mysticism (as defined and worked with in this episode)!
Fun fact :: in the Later Antiquity Philosopher Plutarch of the 2nd and 4th Century AD, was more essential , confluent and dynamic embraced compared to Plato and Aristotle, Plutarch highly respected Socrates, but focused on the culty nature studies of Pythagoras, that is immersed in Occultic Esoteric teachings of Hellenism.
Furthermore, Plutarch and his disciples began a Neoplatonic philosophical groundwork as well as framework, that permeated into the Mainstream Abrahamic religions we have today, such as the Oneness of the Monad, various Gnostic schools like the Sethians, Basilideans and the Mandaens.
It is also known by various Roman and Greek Philosophy at the time Plutarch was immensely influential on Hermes Trigestumus of Alexandria.
This is a fantastic survey of the topic and very timely given Sam Harris' recent podcast episode with Brian Muraresku.
Mysticism is knowing that which goes beyond birth and death. The great mystery of life.
No. Mysticism is the end of questioning.
@@PiedFifer truth for knowing that which goes beyond time/space is the end of all questions about existence.
Maybe because mysticism is so respectful already, it seems naturally logical to be connected witha pleasant afterlife, And mysticism is so self-masterful, it seems naturally logical to be able to have a choice about the afterlife.
self-mastery=respectful
Great job, as usual, but especially this time, because you broached a most important thread in "connecting the dots." Reason leads directly to mysticism when Reason is indeed followed faithfully. (Irrationalism too often masquerades as rationalism in this world of limitation, which believes that rationalism is to try and reduce limitless and abstract Truth to a limited and finite understanding!) And Parmenides is key to illustrating this connection (between the West and the East), as my book makes clear. Limitation must be recognized as IRRATIONAL (by definition) in order to make room for The Rational in one's mind. And "The Philosopher's Stone" is then found to be the foundation of all truly rational (whole) Thought; The Philosopher's Stone being the simple and yet most profound fact that "GOD" is The Mind that is ALL. There it is. But one has not FOUND the Philosopher's Stone until one has found very good reason to believe that this is true! Experience is required.
Empedocles is probably shuffling around in his volcano like “hey, what about me?”
Amazing work! I've always found it odd that otherwise very educated people seem to discount the very clear evidence that the philosophers and other high-ranking individuals of ancient Greece and Rome were somehow atheists who denied any sort of greater spiritual existence, when there are many instances otherwise.
Mysticism is an individual experience of the universal.
Ho,y shit this channel is a gold mine. And it it keeps giving
please make a video on the ahmadi religion of peace and light and it's leader. thankyou