Snapdragon X Elite: The End for Intel & AMD?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ค. 2024
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► Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:59 CPU Performance
04:37 NPU Performance
02:50 Graphics Performance
05:48 Typical Josh Concerns
07:18 Gaming Performance
08:10 AI Nonesense
10:20 Chilling with Max
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1:44 - M3 8 Core faster than M3 PRO 12 Core, how?
you need to make a video, about installing Windows 11 on a Macbook pro, via Parallels, and how would that work, as Apple chips are still the best and many Windows users would love to be able to use Macbook pro, Mac chip, but we need Windows OS for our work
Windows really needs to get their stuff together with the arm version
They did. That's why Parallels and VMWare fusion running Windows for ARM work as well as they do.
You're asking for performance for a company who has coasted for decades now
Why the almost year old 7945x3d beats it in every metric and we are what 6 months from a 30% bump from the next gen
Windows ARM is not even remotely as polished or as performant as ARM macOS was 3 years ago@@SinistralEpoch
Have you used it? Most of the comments I read about Windows ARM is from people who have never used it. I have used it for over three years. Win11 versions are perfectly fine.
My only problem is drivers for old or obscure USB devices. No problems running almost anything I throw at it as long as hardware drivers available. What is most surprising about Windows ARM is just how boring and similar it is to the Intel version.
This is THE BEST video about Snapdragon X Elite! I've seen 20-30 videos about this topic and nobody explained it like you did!
Thanks Josh!
bro me to man watching every video about it
who has time to watch 30 videos about this, a job and a life doesnt give time to do that
how so ? it only shows qcoms own test, nothing 3rd party. That means it's not really that relevant. Wait for 3rd party reviews, which is kinda guaranteed to show much lower performance
@@betag24cn I do. guys with automated business and clever resource management only stressed couple hours a day and the rest is free time.
Forget about Windows, I want to run arm Linux with MacBook battery life
Mac OS was more efficient than Windows on the same machine (back when Macs ran Intel CPUs). And Windows is more efficient then Linux on the same machine. Don't get your hopes up. ISA doesn't matter.
Yeah buddy you go ahead
I want a laptop for work and causal use which can last.
Linux on arm has been a thing for years, and with many open source software compiled for it
@SirMo Bro says Windows and MacOS is more efficient than Linux 😂😂😂. Dear Apple user, you people dont even know what tech is. You people have been in Apple jail (also known as apple ecosystem) for years. How can monkey know the taste of garlic?
Come out of the apple jail and see which is more efficient. Linux runs on old mac or old windows laptop better that mac or windows. Linux is most resource efficient and thats why its used everywhere. Server, smartphone (android has custom version of linux), PC, embedded systems, supercomputers, HPC, and everywhere you can imagine in tech.
@@imop285I'm not a Mac user. I'm a PC Linux user. I'm saying MacOS has the efficiency advantage. People have tested this. Because you could bootcamp install Windows on a Mac. And without a doubt your power efficiency would drop dramatically if you were running Windows on your Intel Mac.
I actually run Linux on x86. And Windows generally has better or similar efficiency on the same machine.
So I think people way overestimate the efficiency they are going to get from ARM on PC. AMD CPUs are quite efficient already, and I doubt you will see much of an improvement with ARM. Too many people look at M1-3 Macs and think they are efficient because of the CPU. But this isn't the case. They are efficient because of a great software-hardware integration that's hard to match by the diverse PC ecosystem.
This won't change anything until windows devs make arm builds...
It's a bit of a chicken egg problem alright. You are right, initially anyway.
Yeah, even though Windows for ARM existed far before Apple M-series macs, the lack of dev and app support on Windows ARM makes Apple easily beat it in terms of compatibility in just a year. They need to seriously attract all devs to port all apps to ARM version in order to catching up against Apple
Same issue MacOS had. As long as these chips do everything people need well expect them to sell more and ARM software will become more common. Your average stuff your normal user needs are already ARM on Windows
Well, MacOs is now ARM only, if your software is not built for ARM ISA your customers will complain and you can deprecate the x86 version, there also the chance of apple deprecating Rosetta 2 and breaking compatibility with x86 ISA, so it's another incentive to build for ARM. Windows won't abandon x86 so if you want to support ARM you now need to support both ARM and x86.
People have been saying the same about "average normal users" can use Linux just like you said they can use ARM, and after years saying that, they have finally reached 4% world use, great, I guess. Oh and God forbid those "average normal users" need to run something different once in a while and it does not work because they are on arm, I'm sure they will be happy because of that...
Even if windows makes an arm build today, most of windows programs arent gonna work in arm. Most Windows programs still require x86.
This peeks my curiosity for Linux.
same
Given Asahi Linux took so much time to get in a usable state because Apple didn't lift any fingers to help and given many ARM apps aren't on Linux and many FOSS apps on Linux are unmaintained on macOS because of a lack of developers, I doubt Linux users are focusing on ARM when RISC-V is royalty-free.
@@cameronbosch1213Linux has better ARM support and longer ARM support than all the other platforms that exist.
@@gg-gn3re Maybe mainline, but it's still pretty bad. And if you're trying to run Linux on an Apple Silicon Mac, until very recently, basic things like the speakers and Thunderbolt ports just did not work. Now it's usable but there still aren't many apps for anything outside of x86-64. I honestly think ARM is trash anyway.
@@cameronbosch1213 Asahi in trying to adapt and reverse engineer drivers and software for very closed architecture. It is most likely not the same here.
I think we should just be looking at it as a long term game, as there's still a lot that needs to be worked on
Don't forget that there's plans from intel to remove both 16bit and 32bit support from the x86 instruction set, and will be called x86s. Removing those legacy instructions should result in performance and power usage gains
they all got "plans", fact is, intel is behind TSMC and Samsuing in foundry business. Intel is behind AMD in making x86 designs.
Hey, your video was just featured in Cold Fusion! They featured your criticism of AI laptops there. The video was discussing about AI-washing, like green washing but with AI, the biggest hype of 2023.
Oh wow just saw it. Thank you
Yeah, no... Until devs start making arm builds for their windows applications, this literally wont change anything...
Agreed. Even if the x86 emulation is "good enough" for the most popular windows apps, Microsoft is sure to "gently persuade" the average user to get their ARM apps from the Microsoft Store.
It's a vicious cycle that Qualcomm broke. The cycle goes thus: poor arm processors performance leads to no interest from customers leads to no incentive for developers maybe not in that order but you get the gist, now that snapdragon has something as good as M3 in performance per watt, it's going to break the cycle
It’s still a bit of a chicken and egg situation with hardware and software. But this is a good step in the right direction. MS will have to catch up with x86 emulation.
All web browsers are ported, and so are all Microsoft programs. Adobe has native ports, but Autodesk lacks them. It'll take a bit.
That said: Linux will work on day 1 (there's UEFI support), so in my case I'll be fine lol
They bring out one chip like this and "THE END FOR INTEL AND AMD" lol, they aren't just going to go away overnight
Any news on the linux compatibility video for laptops ?
It was good to see Josh and Max sit down and talk...this is what I like about Josh, he likes collaborating with other techies.
so does this mean that it'll be a while before there's compatibility between ARM chips and dedicated GPUs?
Looove for "endless failed hinged dates" ❤
I'm not sure if the games here were emulated but that might say that graphic performance might be much better if the games were made for ARM. Rosseta was mostly emulating by using hardware layer on M1 processor, hope Elite X will have similar hardware layer to emulate x86 instructions.
Your critical perspective is always appreciated. I'm very interested in seeing a Linux desktop system running on this hardware. For basic usage and light code work, these would appear to be an appealing mix of light power use and significant NPU output. Great breakdown!
I like this dude, Finally someone understand that hardware is not always what important, rossetta 2 was the key without it hardware would have not done it for apple.. with that said and knowing Microsoft. It wont be what i hope for . .
1:16 Hitting very close to home there Josh hahahaha
Great video btw!
This was a very honest video josh. Amazing, i've seen plenty of other videos on this subject but most of them were hyping it up big time.
Windows on ARM is still very bad imo (windows on x86 is already bad enough lol), i am hoping qualcomm and M$ would try their best to make a compelling product and force Apple to innovate even more but tbh i still find an M3 macbook pro to be a better option since it has a much more mature ecosystem and better performance overall. Apple will still have a monopoly for now so their prices will still be outrageous, even if qualcomm makes it as long as the price of this new hardware is too high, nothing has changed. Unless these new laptops offer better Linux support.
They won't. Many propietary apps don't work so they'll need emulation or translation. And for Linux, RISC-V seems to be a better fit given it's royalty-free and has Google backing it.
windows on arm is perfectly fine, has been for well over a decade. It runs just fine and it's whatever. People just don't target the hardware and it's got a compat layer as bad as rosetta 2.
Damn, my dad just got decorilla last week. No idea Josh co-founded it.
Fantastic video. With DaVinci Resolve onboard I'll be picking one of these up. Resolve often struggles to render projects on Windows laptops with less than 8GB VRAM as soon as you start using Fusion. It has no such issues on M series chips so this will be a game changer for those of us that need to use it on the road and dislike Macs.
8 gb VRAM requirement basically cuts out most laptops on the market. ARM should hopefully solve this
how are you able to do resolve work on a 8gb macbook?? I had a 2000 dollar m3 pro mbp with 18gb of ram which I had to send back cause it couldn't handle my video editing needs. Totally ram starved. I liked the laptop but I'd need a $5000 dollar spec really to be comfortable I think and that's an insane amount of money on a laptop.
@@definingslawek4731 I've only used an M2 Air with 16GB of ram. It renders projects that crash on my laptop (32GB ram, 3050 with 4GB of VRAM) without issue. I can get them to render on my Windows machine in h265 and using the CPU instead of the GPU sometimes... but once that VRAM fills up it's a crapshoot if it's going to fail or not. The M2 Air on the other hand gets the job done every single time... slowly however.
i wish for linux compatibility, most software will recompile easy as it is open source
For the M-series Macs one critique point has been the integrated RAM and SSD. How is the Qualcomm chip regarding RAM and SSD, can it be uograded after purchase?
5:50 "let me just be josh for a couple of minutes" excellent hahaha
I'm excited about this. I've been tempted to get an M chip Macbook solely for the battery/power performance, but I'm just not a fan of the Mac OS.
I wish laptop manufacturer would come out with a hybrid CPU model whereby you have both ARM and x86 CPU on board.
On normal usage, only the ARM cpu will be utilized,saving power and runs cool. But when your application needs x86 to run, the x86 CPU will be run alongside, just like what we have with discete graphics.
Of course, Windows would need to support this kind of switching or parallel processing stuff, which I think they have no problem implementing this since server usually have dual CPU configuration but with same architecture of course.
Wait for reviews
Josh I think the challenge will be the pricing and people accepting to lose upgradability.
The X-Elite die size is like 182 mm^2 on TSMC 4nm node and upcoming Zen 5 APUs will be faster than it in terms of CPU performance for sure and AMD is already very efficient at 35W. If the X-Elite laptops will be like 1500 usd, then I wouldn't prefer it over AMD Laptops with dGPUs like RTX 4060 which will crush the X-Elite in gaming performance.
It's not easy to kill x86 Intel and AMD, and neither it is easy to create a mega SoC with powerful CPU+powerful GPU and price it lower. Apple is able to do it as they are selling a finished product and selling services.
AMD is also kind of able to do it with the consoles like Series X/PS5/PS5 Pro... but if those APUs were sold in the DIY market, they would be astronomically more expensive.
Intel and AMD may be forced to kill x86 by themselves one day, because there are limits of that architectue and there are very ancient and obsolete elements of that architecture which make it less efficient.
And when you are talking about GPUs, today GPU design and trend of evolution is not sustainable, they just make it bigger, you can't do that forever, it's obvious that we need some revolution. I would say that today GPUs are superior, but software is very badly optimised and that hunger for performance forces nvidia and AMD make those crazy 5kg and 50cm long GPUs because they just don't know how to increase the performance in other way. Similar trend with CPUs, you need bigger and bigger coolers, 90°C is already standard, it's crazy, this trend has to stop and if it's not possible without killing x86, then they should do it, sometimes you just need to do something even when you know it's gonna hurt a lot.
X86 is NOT absolute, it's evolving just as arm. It was stagnant due to Intel's carelessness, but now it's in full force and "will regin".
@@PidalinHeck, there was several reasons RISC hasn't taken off in desktop computing outside of Macs. Heck, many RISC platforms, like SPARC, PA-RISC, MIPS, and others aren't even developed anymore; it's bascially just ARM and RISC-V. And honestly, the latter is much more likely to be anything good, given ARM is still controlled and we've seen Qualcomm and ARM Holdings sue each other.
@@Pidalinx86 and CISC may not be dead for a LONG time.
They're not APU's since the consoles PS5 and Xbox Series X have a seperate on-die graphics chip. APU's it's CPU and GPU in one single chip.
Which games work on Arm? Looking at Mac M series it seems solitaire is the top title.
That's a problem with Mac even during Mac-Intel era.
Caption for the video reads "AI nonesense" around the @8:00 mark, which is apt.
How will the x86 based Windows apps run on the ARM platform? Similar to what Apple has done with Rosetta? I'm more interested in this than anything else right now - thanks peeps
Dont care about windows as long as linux works on these processors
Why do people like voicing out their opinions? Especially when no one had asked😢
@@flagger1Yes, why did you comment?
I returned my Surface Pro 9 with Snapdragon for the Intel i5 because the emulation of Windows software was unbearable .
The NPU also felt pretty gimmicky and didn't provide any actual functional benefit for 99% of my tasks. No one cares if I'm looking at the webcam or if I'm the focus in a frame because I don't know how to adjust my camera. Sort of a waste if you ask me.
Great video tho!
Agreed. I'm glad we are working on AI, and it will be helpful in the future, but right now no one should be buying a laptop based on it
Snapdragon X Elite's NPU is so powerful it can run LLMs offline and on-device.
You've got one part wrong, those wattage numbers are the whole system's cooling capacity not the chip TDP.
That isn't what was explained to us in the room. But if it is, you can probably just take away 1 to 2 watts and re-calculate the efficiency. Under loads like Cinebench most of the 23 watts is going to the TDP. It won't change the story materially
Oh and thank you for the comment, I will check into it
@@JustJoshTech Thank you for your reply. I think getting single digit gain with almost 300 percent increase in power consumption is neither efficient nor logical. Even the worst x86 processors perform better in this regard. Qualcomm has not announced the official numbers for the TDP.
23W and 80W is the device TDP. It's not what the chip I'd actually consuming.
Wasn't the 23W estimate based on the total power usage of the laptop, including screen, storage and so on? You may have to modify your charts then ^^
The only reason I‘m interested at all is Linux. I know about Asahi, but I want a ThinkPad keyboard, long battery life and slim & silent notebook. If you could do that with x86 it would be fine, but for the no-fan-noise I have to hope for a ThinkPad Carbon X1 with an ARM processor and no fans. But in terms of performance, Qualcom is catching up at best but most likely only provides a mediocre performance/efficiency with limited software support when used with Windows.
You're missing two points. First, the single-thread performance actually matches the performance of Apple's M3 processor. People who are used to running all three operating systems (Windows, macOS, and Linux) would be aware of this, especially hackintosh users.
Second, the 23W or 80W figures refer to the power consumption of the whole system, not just the CPU itself.
Nope, even Apple has different CPU and GPU power usage, and as they shipping the M2 Max with 96W charger, but the CPU is limited to use 60W and the GPU has a 30W limit, you can figure out the whole system has the max 96W power comsuption limit, so the charger can maintain it forever..
The blocker is Windows ARM and compatibilities with current x86 applications
The pressure on Intel has been immense for a good few years, yet they are still struggling to be competent. The gen 12 release period was pretty much the only period when it made sense to buy a new Intel CPU instead of an AMD (and I have a 12 gen i7 CPU btw). I'm glad they started to pivot to fabs and manufacturing, because hopefully that's something they could actually do well.
One thing that is really bad about ARM is the lack of the ability for a universal OS. It's really hard to port Linux to devices like the m1 macbook. We'll be at the mercy of qualcomm and device manufactures as to whether if Linux or other OS's will work on it
the question i'm asking is, will a arm cpu works with an AMD or NVIDIA gpu? do GPUs supports instructions from an ARM chip ?
There are already workstations with Ampere Altra ARM CPUs and Nvidia and/or AMD GPUs, so yes. Nvidia has drivers for Linux but not for Windows. AMD drivers for Linux are in the kernel, so those should work out of the box too.
I almost gave up and went for macbook air, but I am now holding up for your review on X elite laptop!!
Hello Josh, will you test Lenovo Legion 7i (not the pro version) from this year? My purchase decision is fully conditioned by your review coming out.
I absolutely will, but it isn't available yet. I tried to buy it myself and have Lenovo send it directly. No one has it. please note our schedule for April is now pretty full. So it will likley be in May
I am planning to buy IdeaPad 5 pro, which to choose core ultra 7 or core ultra 9, i heard ultra 9 is underperforming than ultra 7?
Don't buy Intel Ultra.
I believe that until arm structures are implemented for Windows applications, no significant progress can be made. However, with that being said, I am hopeful for the future of competition between Qualcomm, Apple, and hopefully Intel and AMD will quickly get their acts together.
I really like the casual conversation. Thanks for including it.
The 80W is the TDP of the device not the power fed to the SoC. The Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite is impressive. The GPU is on TSMC N4 if you compare it to the GPU on the Apple M3 which is on TSMC N3. Apple used a lot more transistors on the M3 GPU.
I would like to see the benchmarks after the OS, and benchmarks, have been refined to work better with this new processor.
The down to earth, balanced perspective here is appreciated. It's important not to overhype a product like this without considering the potential translation layer hurtles. This is still incredibly exciting. If Microsoft or Qualcomm can manage to develop something similar to Rosetta 2, this will be an exciting release. As you mentioned, most important is the pressure this will put on AMD and Intel to further increase power efficiency.
Amazing 950 in cinebench 24 using only 23 watts, my laptop scores 980 but requires 80 watts to be fed to the cpu😅😅😅
VERY curious how well X86 programs will run on these new processors.
That's the main determining factor for me if they want me to get these types of laptops.
is it possible for qualccom give x elite laptop a oculink port?
@1:46 - I see the Snapdragon is under "Portable" section vs. the Asus G14 - which is under "Performance" section. - Does it mean that the Snapdragon CPU's still won't compete against an AMD Ryzen 9 + 4070 GPU when it comes to video editing in Davinci + After Effects? [trying to understand if the X Elite is relevant contender in the next 2 years...]
The software and os integration will be interesting. Given we have a bunch of M series Mbook Pros at work that are without a doubt more buggy with core apple software vs x86 PC's in the same work space, the bar isn't set very high in this regard
something you missed out at the start with the power draw, 23w and 80w are total device TDP not the chip alone, tho you'd expect a bigger increase going from a 23w laptop to an 80w one. but still essentially making a parallel with apple it's M3 pro performance (significantly faster if you're using linux as well) for M3 air power
Something whst you are missing is that, this can't be the TDP, this is just the power consumption by the CPU.. imagine how many power left for the CPU when the Macbook Air only use 8W on the total system for a benchmark... 😂
Josh do you know about the i7 150u?, its supossed to be a new processor of intel apart from the ultra series, the thing is that I am looking at a samsung galaxy book 4 with that procesor, 16gb ram and 512 ssd for 1070 €, I think that it is a good deal here in spain, there arent enough reviews of the laptop and there arent any of the processor, so please give me and opinnion, I need it for studying and programming, I like the fact that it has got and 15.6 inch display and the aspects look good, also the cpu performance seems to be great but there arent reviws about it so I dont know
I've been waiting for this video, and review of samsung laptops from you
Thanks. Re Samsung I was suck for a week. We are finally back up and rolling content. Samsung will definitely be appearing in many videos late April and May
@@JustJoshTech ahh, no problem, :) get well soon!
@2:48 - The Yoga Pro 9i has a 1.5 hour battery life for video editing. I can't consider it as a laptop really. [it does offer 64GB which is rare tho...]
I'll likely pre-order a Surface Pro 10 with the X Elite and OLED screen. But I have other x64 devices so don't need 100% compatibility on day 1. With Edge, Visual Studio, VS Code, Linux on WSL, Office etc. all being native ARM already, it will have me covered for everything important.
Chrome is now native too
@@_Digitalguy ew
Don't preorder anything, there is no point in giving big molochs money before they actually deliver the product
I really hope we can finally get RISC in laptops and desktops at scale. It's long overdue. We could have had RISC on the desktop from the 90s onward. Thanks a lot Intel/Microsoft/Apple/IBM! That's 30 years of extra energy usage and holding back progress. I'm sure the extra profits were worth it.
the Internal combustion engine still prevails in cars, because oil is money and which developments for alternatives are hampered
What do you think about the Asus Zenbook Pro 15 flip (UP6502)? I am considering buying it because it's currently on sale for -$500 coming in at $1300 CAD.
Reviews like these solidify my choice of purchasing a laptop with a low end dedicated gpu in 2023. 2025 or 2026 should be exciting.
Still using my Galaxy Book S (ARM) laptop today, and it's great. Battery lasts more than 20 hours still
If the promises made from Qualcomm and Microsoft are fullfilled it will indeed be great for competition and I am very curious to see how Intel and Amd will react. But price and availability is really important, all reviewers agreed that mobile zen 4 was great but U series (Phoenix) launched in real laptops really late after the announcement, and new 8000 chips are just the same chips with bigger NPU, so even if Zen 5 seems great and is announced in Q3/4 2024 I doubt we see products with it until mid 2025 giving a lot of space for Qualcomm and Intel.
I feel like the 80 watt variant just isn't a good idea for them to even do. While you get a bit more performance, it gives room for people to compare that and say it has worse perf/watt than Apple, when the 23W one is delivering 90% of the performance of the 80W one. It's clearly not a chip that's made to benefit from going much higher than the 23W variant.
It just needed for marketing, now they can say: It can beat M3 in efficicncy. It can beat M3 in performance. (Not in the same graphs, not in the same sentence, but individually both can be prooved, so good for marketing, nothing else..)
I'll wait for Gen 3/+ and see how good it is becomes compared to Zen 6 or intel equivalent and especially the support from Linux and Windows, for productivity - performance/battery.
Josh I am studying computer sciencea at the university, and I would like to focus on web development, please tell me which laptop should I get:
An hp pavilion plus 14, with i5 ultra 125h, 16gm ram and 512ssd for 850 €
Or and acer swift go with i7 ultra 155h, 32gb ram and 1tb ssd for 1099€.
I am not sure if the extra 250€ are worth it, or if the hp would be enough for me. I wanted the asus zenbook 14x with i7 but it isnt available in europe, if you know about another laptop that could be a good option under 1000€ please tell me.
And Josh, I dont know if it would be a good option buying a gamer, I saw an hp victus 16 for 950€ with i7 13700h, 16 ram and 512 ssd, the good think is that it is a 16 inch display and the ram is upgreatable, but the battery life and the poor quality display could be a problem to me
great video and great cross over. This really grounded my expectations on Snapdragon. I specially didn't expect the heat and noise...
Love your channel, love your reviews. Actual reviews you can trust not just sales pitches.
Thank you
the main question about Linux support
Waiting for this upgrade, I have a Samsung Windows 11 notebook with Snapdragon 7c , it last 15 hours web browsing
I'll be waiting for RISC-V especially for Linux, ARM is just too locked down.
arm is only locked for people doing the soc chips, the user couldnt care less, including the closed source gpu drivers
risc is ideal to make smart tvs and that kind of stuff, other than that, no cost or platform benefit, all you get is growing pains and people not caring
I love my Surface Pro X even with a slow ARM processor. Not a speed demon but perfectly acceptable for things like Word, email, Excel. It even does hardware based video conversion at a pretty good speed. The only software I haven't been able to run are things which need drivers for USB hardware. Native ARM versions run faster, but Windows ARM runs 32 bit and 64 bit Intel programs just fine.
The least of my worries is running software. My biggest worry is hardware drivers.
i remember when they compared parallels on m1 to native x86 windows laptops on maxtech and the virtualization still beat them out lol ...windows is still catching up
Damn I see a lot of potential in Josh team I need to be a member to help him scale up
We are trying! Alot of growth ahead
Debian runs natively on ARM64. I'm looking forward to having an Arm PC that I can use all day long without being plugged to a socket and not depend on Apple.
ARM64 is very good for compiling code.
I think this is more of a potential end, or push, for 64-bit extended x86. If anything, could Intel and AMD just switch arch?
They could, but they are still earning a lot of revenue due to being the only companies that can sell x86 CPUs. When x86 really falls by the wayside, they'll have something lined up to complement or replace their x86 CPUs. Intel wants to become the second-largest foundry after TSMC, so maybe they'll pivot to that over time.
This seems to be a viable option maybe for a 2. or 3. gen chip.
Windows optimization will be much slower as it has a more complex variety of devices it has to cater to.
The ROI for developers is also much lower as there will be far less benefitors for the ARM architecture as it will be just some niche devices not like the whole Mac lin up for example
Using the Thinkpad x13s which is fine for my needs, this sounds very promising!
Question is how will the support be from software vendors? Would companies make 2 versions of their software -one for X elite and one for x86? In the case of Apple, they made it clear, the Intel Macs were going away so the developers had no choice but to transition,, but in this case Intel/AMD are still there. So can the developers actually make 2 versions that is fully optimized to take advantage of the respective CPU hardware?
When it will be launch???
what about PCs? when will ARM processors take over?
Good step forward but ultimately not significant enough without a software ecosystem ready.
The trouble started for x86 after the intro of Apple Silicon in 2020
Uhm... No.
@@antalpotiin the consumer market yes definitely
arm was introduced bacj when the furst smartphones and personal assistants came decades ago, from that time it was clear that power consumption was a problem for x86
things got worse when we got smartphones with 8 cores
intel was supposed to deliver a 4 cores cpu using arm level of power for 2015, but all they could deliver was 2 cores using like 40 watts and easily overheating, so apple just made the jump
but so far, apple has not seen great market share increade on desktops and laptops, all they did was prove a point, that it could be done
microsoft just got lazy with their tablets and windows 8 arm version, otherwise this would have happende like 5 years ago, if not more
the AI part is not for today, but a requirement for tomorrow
so it's important to get a decent IA laptop today if you want to use it tomorrow too.
People talking about how needs more apps optimised for arm in windows. We should look at this as a great step up and amazing results from snapdragon with their 1st gen xelite performance per watt. If manufactures can get around 15 hours of battery life with minimal fan noise the apps will be coming mate. Just like how when apple had their m1 chip. Apps were being optimised very quickly. As a student this will be my dream laptop. I need the battery life and power efficiency. Thanks josh!
This is not equaly thr same, Apple completly stopped to support x86, literaly if you want to remain on Mac, you must refresh your app to ARM, but Windows just spit into 2 half, and if the x86 parts remain way bigger (more desktop users like laptop users), still the x86 will the main focus for devs (i mean nobody target the 5% of the store, and ignore 95% of the avaliable profit..)
ARM for PCs would also pair well with increased Linux desktop adoption. It's quite quite good nowadays, even for basic users.
Needs dedicated gpu compatibility and upgradeable ram or no buy.
It’s not just windows you have to translate x86 code to run. There aren’t going to get native software off the bat, and running through non native software is going to be terrible.
when do you reveiw the Galaxy Book Ultra 4 ?
It's being filmed next week. Just in final script writing right now
Oh sorry my bad. That was the Pro model. We do not have an Ultra model. That won't be till very late April if not early May. As I understand they haven't shipped yet
@@JustJoshTechIf filming occurs next week, could we expect the Samsung Galaxy Book 4 Pro 360 video to come sometime the week after this week? Just wondering because the Samsung Galaxy book 4 Pro 360 is $400 off right now on Samsung and Best Buy
You need to compare these to base M3s for GPU and AMD 780 iGPUs.
clearly these are primarily targeting people who use Microsoft office and studio type apps.
For a lot of users, in the business space, that’s all they really need. And these are suitable for that.
After reviewing my usual laptop usage which are mostly chrome tabs, word processing, and occasional old skool game titles, the appeal of long battery life (and it's windows) get my hopes up.
Finally no more remembering to bring the bulky charger from home to office again.
Apple budgets a lot of its SoC with other hardware accelerators that may be absent from this X Elite. For example, there are encoders and decoders for H.264/265 and ProRes. Additionally, the M3 family has hardware accelerated ray tracing. So Snapdragon, while admittedly making a pretty great chip, omitted some key details in its comparison to Apple's chips. I think this will really show itself when real-world tests are conducted, when these chips actually arrive in laptops to reviewers.
Such a clearheaded view, thanks
I’m really looking forward to the ai capabilities of these chips. Notably Qualcomm and strix halo.
Not necessarily for a laptop however. I want a decent ai inference machine. If I can combine this with a gpu that I can offload ai compute to, I can run 70b+ llms with large context windows at decent inference speeds.
To that end what I care about is AI TOPS, memory bandwidth and software support to supplement use of external gpu.
I would pay quite a bit for that.
so what about pairing that chip with a dedicated gpu?
amd will do that i bet
What's Qualcomms commitment to Linux?
Thunderbolt?
Do we still need a translation layer between programs run and the hardware?
I'd be surprised if these devices aren't super locked down to only run Windows. TB? They'd need to license that from Intel, so probably just USB4. Translation layer - yes, unless something is compiled for ARM, Windows will translate it.
i am using my s20 5g with snapdragon 865 in dex mode and i can say it's a very capable machine in such a tight power budget.
it's about 5W but i can play gta 5 at 20-30fps with mobox and run several programs at once with barely any heat. so 23w for 5x the power and about 5x perf increase isn't bad at all.
Good video, Josh. I believe that these chips will be great for Windows tablets like Surface 10. Android tablets from Samsung. Also, thin and light Windows PC. However, I think we're finding that as power scales up, these arm chips begin to struggle more with heat and fan noise. Your now famous quote on the M3 Max 14 " A hot loud mess" . I guess the question is, can the NPU replace the GPU for graphical performance. For now, at least the answer is no. I bet when Nvidia enters the all in one chip space, they will dominate.
RE: GPU performance - it's better than I expected considering they'll be facing the same headwinds Intel is facing with ARC. It'll probably land between the Core Ultra 155H and Ryzen Z1 Extreme iGPUs in performance where the games aren't just broken on the Qualcomm GPU. Many games on those need to run at 720p with upscaling enabled.
RE: Battery life - in a gaming handheld (think Z1 Extreme or Core Ultra 155H) probably gonna see similar results at the same wattage.
As for where in the market this SoC will land - don't expect these to be in cheap laptops, Qualcomm will run them up market into the premium segment, janky software experience and all. I'm sure they have solutions in place for down the stack, likely a mix of cutdown X Elite SoCs and phone SoCs. I don't expect them to be like Apple and offer just one chip for an entire range of devices.
I have software (mostly my game library) going back 25 years. I'm not going to leave that all behind to run ARM. I don't see this working for anyone but business where all your software is provided by your employer.