@@franknberry6397 The Writers have basically “Black-Listed” Curt Schilling and Jeff Kent because of Curt’s Political Views or Jeff’s I’ll contempt towards the Media. Scott Rolen is they ”Poster Child” for the All American “Clean’ Baseball Player that Writers can Vote for without any Controversy.
Garvey is punished for him knocking up his mistresses and he built up this fake squeaky clean image Hernandez is borderline but he’s also punished for not being liked by the press
Garvey and Dave Parker were both premier players of the mid 70's to early 80's and have stats that match or exceed what Rolan did. Hopefully they get in one day.
Unfortunately, Garvey is competing against 1st basemen in Cooperstown that had greater power numbers (HR's): Gehrig, Foxx, McCovey, Murray, Thomas, Thome, Musial, etc. That's a reason Mattingly, Garvey and Hernandez are not in. In addition, Garvey had an OBP of .329, and an OPS of .775. How do those compare with Jim Thome? Or Frank Thomas?
Totally agree! Parker had a laser arm. One of the best all-time throws ever occurred in the 1979 All-Star game. Parker to Gary Carter. Watch it on TH-cam. Amazing throw. Throws a strike from deep in RF to Gary Carter on the fly. Gets Downing of the Angels out at the plate. The Cobra was a great hitter, fielder and leader on the field.
He did enough, with 300+ HRs, 1,200+ RBI's, and with 8 Gold Gloves, that put him over the top, IMO. As far as 3rd basemen, only Mike Schmidt has at least all 3 that I recall.
I'm a White Sox fan and they need to ask how the Heck did Harold Baines get into the Hall of Fame? No Gold Gloves, highest MVP vote in any season was 9h place, yah he got a lot of RBI's, was a good player, But not a HOFER!
I agree its the consistency issue - there are too many "very good" players and you allow some in some not - I'm an old guy who agrees that only certain guys with career consistent magic numbers should get in - 300 pitching wins, 2000 strikeouts, 300 plus lifetime average, 2000 rbis, record breaking accomplishments, numerous awards, mvps titles etc, championships - a combination thereof. then again I'm an old guy who misses pitchers pitching complete games and winning 20 games a season 😄
@@MWebr43 depends if verlander can channel his inner tom brady and pitch till he is 45. besides his long shot chance we will never see another 300 game winner again
Torii Hunter has 9 gold gloves, .280 average, nearly 2500 hits over 350 home runs... All in the same realm or better as Rolen. Hunter won't even get on the veterans ballot.
dan hit the bullseye with the building analogy, the way hall of fames in all sports are going to be are there's the clear-cut penthouse hall of famers then the third, second, and first floor guys. There's nothing wrong with that at all, in my opinion.
@@TL2354You're absolutely right. Mattingly was far better than Helton at their respective peaks. Helton was not as good defensively and offensively he was aided by Coors Field in a big way, as evidenced by the Home/Road splits. It's not even close.
Mattingly was far more accomplished than Helton, granted I though Helton was a great player but Don Mattingly was totally better and it's a travesty that he's not in.
What about Gary Gaetti or Ron Cey as far as third basemen go? I think a strong argument can be made for Joe Carter? Why? Look at how many seasons he had with 100 or more RBIs.
There needs to be a fourth level added for ex major leaguers who could self felatiate which would include Joe DiMaggio, Don Stanhouse, Pedro Borbon, Ted Kluszewski,Jim Bibby, Frank Robinson, Manny Sanguiellen Orlando McFarlane, Paul Casanova,Al Ferrara, and Harry Chappas.
I started following baseball in 1956. Since then, the best 3rd basemen (off/def) in my lifetime were 1) Mike Schmidt 2) Eddie Mathews 3) George Brett 4) Scott Rolen 5) Brooks Robinson It's my opinion that neither one of you know just how good Scott Rolen was. How does his WAR stack up. He wasn't a big mouth and he played in the midwest. So what? He was a GREAT player.
Scott Rolen retired in 2012. I found this on ESPN dated Jul 11, 2016 (3.5 years AFTER Rolen retired) All-Time MLB Rank: The 10 greatest third basemen 10. Ron Santo 9. Edgar Martinez 8. Adrian Beltre 7. Paul Molitor 6. Wade Boggs 5. Brooks Robinson 4. Chipper Jones 3. Eddie Mathews 2. George Brett 1. Mike Schmidt Many other websites have him either 9 or 10 but no one has him anywhere near the top-5.
@@chrisp3255 My point was simply one that Rolen did win 8 Gold Gloves because he was a better defensive player and he did win a ring. Just like Jeter had longevity on Reyes, both in total seasons and especially in years where he was a regular starter, and the rings. I'm simply pointing out that your argument basically sounded like "well if Rolen weren't a better player he'd be the same as Wright.". Now, my example is clearly more extreme because Wright is closer to Rolen than Reyes to Jete,, but I'm just pointing out that the things you're saying Rolen had were legit, especially the gold gloves. They also were legit for making Rolen a more deserving Hall of Fame candidate.
I always admired what Mike Francesa said..."if you have to think about it, he's not a hall of famer." Rolen, in my estimation is not a h.o.f. If you put Rolen in, you have to put guys like Mattingly, Bernie Williams, or Kenny Lofton in. For the Record I think Mattingly and possibly Lofton had better stats.
Nolan Arenado plays third… this guy is on track to get into the Hall of Fame, a guy I’d go to a game to see. Also Trout is definitely someone I’d pay to see. His performance at the end of last season was amazing! The consecutive days homering was awesome. 2/5/23
I might bring a unique perspective to this as a 22 year old. I'm not offended that Rolen got in, I get it. There are certain ways of quantifying defence now, that simply did not exist, or were not reliable in Rolen's era. I get it. However, how can somebody vote for him citing defense, but not Andruw Jones, for the same reason? How come Kent isn't in? Why do some voters, refuse to acknowledge closers/relievers if they are legitimate positions? Elaborating on that last point, why did Papelbon and Joe Nathan, fall off the ballot in their first year? I do not care that Rolen is in, I was a kid when he played, I was not rushing to the New York Daily News to check his stats like I did with A-Rod or Manny Ramirez, but I understand him being in. An issue I have, aside from what I feel is hypocrisy/inconsistency, is where do winners factor into the equation? Bernie Williams has boarderline stats, but has a ton of postseason records and was the best position player on 4 World Series winning teams (5 appearances, I thnk Jeter was better by '03), if everyone and their mother think Pudge Rodriguez and Mike Piazza took roids, why isn't Posada given the benefit of the doubt? He would then be the best offensive catcher in his era while winning 4 championships. Jonathan Papelbon was execellent in the postseason, some thing critics of Billy Wagner point out as a reason to not have him in the Hall, Papelbon even retired as the all time leader in saves for two franchises, those being the Boston Red Sox and the Philidelphia Phillies, en route to getting one World Series ring, and 6 All Star appearances. Why isn't Andy Pettite getting in the Hall? Ortiz took PEDs too? How come guys like David Cone, Willie Randolph, Orel Herschiser, Kieth Hernandez, Dave Parker, Lou Whitiker, Dave Steib and Gene Tenace aren't on these comittee ballot's but PED users who have no chance at getting in, are? How come Kieth Hernandez and Dave Parker are seemingly the only two players who got really pennalized for the cocaine scandals? I'm not mad per say, about any player getting in, I'm just confused why some guys are in and some aren't. I'm curious if David Wright will get in the Hall, simply because he was regarded as being better than Rolen in the same era. If modern analytics did not exist for Rolen, shouldn't numerous cases of yesteryear be re-evaluated? The Hall of Fame has become interesting from a historical and historiographical aspect, but that interest has come with confusion. Peace and love everyone, have a great day.
Well, for one, Rolen was better for longer than Jones and many people do vote for both of them on the same principle - good offense combined with otherworldly defense. Rolen just didnt fall off completely like Jones and I think that taints the perspective of Jones in some minds. Williams started putting up good numbers too late to make up for his incredible collapse in his twilight years. He was spent by age 33. Parker had a good peak but only one other good season in 85 outside of those 5 or so years early on. Wright will not get in for the same reason Mattingly shouldnt. They were on a hall of fame trajectory before injuries derailed them but their peak wasnt long or transcend enough to make up for the decline. Wright probably needed one more great season to make it interesting (obviously without injuries he probably waltzs in but thats not the reality we live in)
I always thought Rolan was a hall of famer for a third baseman, but Kent not getting in is awful. I hope Wagner gets in, but I’m a Houston guy. Helton to me is not a hall of famer when it comes to first baseman either. I do agree also that the hall of fame isn’t what it used to be either. It was a lot more sacred and looked at in reverence than how it’s be going since the past couple of years. I mean pitchers getting a career 300 wins or more is almost becoming non existent now. Baseball is just changing. One day they’re may not even be umpires either.
It is like these old farrs arenrt even aware Phil Ruzzuto and other small time players are in the Hof , and Rolen his 300 home runs and 500 doubles and over 2000 hits he actually has offensive numbers ,that being said Kent should be in.
Dan is picking this year as the first sabermetric election, but Tim Raines doesn't get in without the rise of advanced metrics, and the Hall of Fame is better for it.
That's 10 off the top my head so which one of those are you taking rolen over them for him to be top 10 don't worry i will wait take as much time as you need my guy lol
@@TheBloodmist81Machado and Arenado don’t have the volume yet, Boggs was a Fenway Park fraud who couldn’t hit on the road, and Brooks was adequate at best with the stick. Rolen is better than those guys.
At 1:38 Russo does a classic Russo thing. they are talking about how Rolen got 10% of the votes in his first year. Russo thinks that because of that he should not be in. So Russo brings up Jeter and Mariano. The two players who got in with the highest number of votes on their first time being on the ballot. By Russo's thinking here NO ONE should be in if you can not match those two.
Well good thing for Rolen its up to votes and not the commentary. I get the points and they’re valid but we’re not really talking about how good he was on the defensive side. I think it matters, I think he belongs in HoF.
Steve Garvey,definetly,anybody who saw him play assumed they were watching a Hall of Famer,did he sell tickets? You bet he did and I am glad they brought that up,Dale Murphy SOLD TICKETS and was a great ambassador for the game!!!
@@notoriouseagle1074 oh shut the fuck up you leftist tw*t. That’s such bullshit and you know it. Hollywood is run by you assholes and they’re cancelling people every day. Gotta make sure not to misgender someone, or make a slightly offensive joke around you snowflake assholes.
@@alcostello6114 Schilling can't keep his mouth shut!! He's the same guy in a SI interview that said baseball had a steroid problem only to say while testifying on Capitol Hill that he didn't say such thing.
I LOVE how Russo, of all people is criticizing how long it took Rolen to make the Hall of Fame. Chris Russo is a 2022 Radio Hall of Fame inductee. He was eligible 20+ years ago. His partner, Mike Francesca, on FAN got elected in 2018 yet Russo has the gall to criticize Rolen for not get getting on his first try.
Rolen deserves to be in the HoF. Kent's offensive numbers are a half step above Rolen, but his defense is 2 steps behind Rolen. So yes, Rolen above Kent, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the bar to get in should be set between these two players, there is room for both. Some players that definitely deserve more consideration for HoF induction than they previously received (sticking to largely non-steroid guys in this list but they should be in too): Thurman Munson, Bill Freehan, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Dick Allen, Kenny Lofton, Rick Reuschel, Kevin Brown, Curt Schilling.
Curt Schilling deserves to be in and the fact a beat writer whose a pedaphile should be out of the hall of Fame, either take the beat writer out or put Pete Rose and many others in cause of the character clause!!!! But Schilling not being in is mind boggling
There are still a few retired MLBB greats that the veterans commitee needs to correct and elect by one of the various veterans commitees....Steve Garvey,Jeff Kent,Curt Schilling,Dick Allen,Lou Whitaker,Dan Quisenberry,Dale Murphy,Thurman Munson,and Mickey Lolich should all be elected/inducted into the baseball hall of fame sometime in the next decade or so as all of these 9 ex greats certainly are very deserving to be included in the baseball hall of fame..
If he doesn’t think trout Briggs people out to opposing ballparks then he’s vastly out of touch. His “big brain” probably tells him since Trout is humble people don’t go to see him. Since he “thinks” it then it must be true….
At least in the next couple years we have some true first ballot hofers in Beltre and Ichiro. Ichiro was a true generational great. I bet he gets in unanimously.
Kent was largely considered to be one of the worst defensive second basemen of all time. I thought Rolen shouldn't make it. He's more analogous to Bobby Grich or Craig Nettles, but DEFENSE COUNTS!. Baines was a DH. Rice was a corner outfielder who made a ton of outs. Nellie Fox, Mazeroski, were not better than Rolen. Helton got on base a lot on the road. He was one of the best fielding first basemen ever. I'd still be OK if he doesn't make it. Turning 3 triples into 3 outs with the glove is a big deal.
If Coors Field is such an advantage, how come only a fistfull of players (Helton, Walker, Galarraga, Bichette) posted big numbers playing there ? Shouldn't the whole Rockies line up be capable of hitting 30, 40 HRs and hit .350 ??? Ppppppleeeease !!! What is equal is not advantage.
Rolen had more Runs, 2Bs, 3Bs, HRs, RBIs, SBs, higher On Base, higher Slugging, OPS, oWAR, dWAR and has an overall bWAR of 70.1, almost 30 higher than Mattingly. No Mattingly isn't a HoF and no he isn't better than Rolen.
@@wilnerolivier7971 Regardless of the fact you're comparing different positions, Rolen was still better. Rolen has graded out as the 9th best third baseman in MLB history. Mattingly is far, far, down the list of first basemen. Rolen was a better overall hitter at his position and a much better fielder. His offensive numbers beat Mattingly with the exception of batting average. Look it up.
He's not wrong ! Scott Rolen has just above average career numbers... Put Bobby Bonilla in if this is the bar they are setting.. Bernie Williams as well
Here's how I look at the baseball HOF: It's the bottom of the 9th and you need a clutch hit, pick any batter and ask yourself can this player get a hit off ____insert HOF pitcher here____ . Same scenario, you need a strikeout, pick any pitcher and ask yourself can this player get three strikes (or poor contact ground out) off ____insert HOF hitter here____. My issue is inducting players to the HOF who, in a field of dreams league/game 7, would be nothing more than a utility/bullpen player.
Selling tickets has nothing to do with Hall of Fame consideration. However, i think that Kent, Bagwell and Helton are HOF's because of their overall body of work and because for a significant time in their career they were considered amongst the best or the best player(s) at their position. Both Bagwell and Kent won MVP's and playing in Coors Field should not automatically eliminate a player. Helton was drafted by the Rockies and didnt want to play somewhere else. Should we tell him "Todd, if you leave the Rockies then you will be in the HOF? No, he can play where he wants once he hits free agency.
If you are considering 3B HOFs I’m thinking of Eddie Matthews, Brooks Robinson, George Brett, Mike Schmidt, Chipper Jones. So if Rolen is in, then Matt Williams could be in.
Does defense not count? Rolen is a top 5 defensive 3rd baseman of all time, maybe top 3. Jeff Kent was average at best. There's a big distinction. Kent also moved to first base later in his career. Rolen played the hot corner the whole time
Defense counts imo . Its a huge part of the game. You play defense all 9 inning where you might only hit 4 times a game meaning 5 innings you don't even hit.
Forget Kent for a minute, if Rolen gets in, the biggest injustice ever, is Omar Vizguel. Arguably the best defensive shortstop of all-time, before the kids that didn't watch him at all argue, go watch a decade or more of his highlights in his prime. Not to mention he batted 2nd for those historic Cleveland lineups for a reason (his discipline with the bat), that had Manny Ramirez (Hall of fame numbers) batting 7th, and Jim Thome (Hall of famer) hitting 6th. Omar had clutch hits throughout his career just people ignored or forget it; and knowing he truly improved his offense from early in career much more than he ever got credit, is also glossed over. He ended up with 2,877 career hits (3,000 was always the pinnacle elite number for lock, but doesn't always need to be achieved, because it was truly unique). He had eleven gold gloves. He legit could win games with his glove alone, which many couldn't do, and he had plenty of hits to boot. He is the biggest snub. Jmt
I HATE the fact Dan says “you would think he would be in the HOF because he played in a big market” that comment is a fact media and local fans tends to avoid. It’s like Eli getting in the HOF because he played in NY. Or Warren Sapp saying Watt should of won the MVP but LT won it because he played in NY.
@@joebarr725 The voters standards have gotten tougher over the years. This is not even debatable. Unless you think Rabbit Maranville, Rollie Fingers, and Catfish Hunter are better than Jimmy Rollins, Billy Wagner, and David Cone. And if you think that, you don’t know baseball history. It’s a lazy, stupid argument that he is making.
The ridiculous induction of Harold Baines a few yrs ago are why we're even having these debates. The people who voted him in were the ones who lowered the floor for everyone. By the "Baines" standard Rolen is easily in.
@@mikem-gb3pj Edgar was not that great a hitter really. His numbers pretty much suck cept a few seasons. His career numbers are very sad actually for being a hitter in the prime steriod ERA he was Not that great.
Scott Rolen was great. I got nervous when my pitcher faced Rolen, in the post season. Scott Rolen was a ball player. Jeff Kent never got my attention like Rolen did. I agree about Murphy and Garvey needing to be in. There are a lot of HOFers that didn't sell tickets. Who paid to watch Tony Perez besides his parents? Nobody
@@joebarr725 during a postseason game, when he came up, I was nervous. His postseason #s aren't good but he was a tough out. He had a series winner, off Clemens, to win the nlcs and go to the series. Dude was good
Helton has a 58pt difference home vs away batting average Wade Boggs 52pts. And Helton had way more power than Boggs. No one ever mentions fenway park as a hitters park
Like everything the HOF that we knew in the 1900's is not the HOF of 2000's. I think it proves that there are too many writers or journalists because there are too many ways to fill ad time and in the end almost everything is about the money.
I disagree that he wouldn’t have made it in off “old standards” he was an A+ defensive 3B, maybe 3 better defensive 3B in the history of the game imo, and no he doesn’t have the compiler stats, but he has literally everything else, he was even a very very good base runner at 6”4, 245lb, 900ish xbh, I mean I don’t see how anyone could not see him as an all time great, take away 5 gold gloves and no he’s not in, but this dude is the Arenado of his era, an absolute vacuum over at 3B, and a cannon arm!
My beef is not w/Rolen, or anyone else still on the ballot (Helton, etc). My problems are all the guys who should be in long before Scott, like Hernandez, Garvey, Parker, Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, etc. The arrogance and absurdity of the BBWAA is off the chart. Either a guy is a Hall of Famer in his first ballot, or he's not. How does someone gradually become a Hall of Famer? The hindsight argument is weak.
They needed a warm body, and Scott was it this year. As I once heard whats a Hall of Fame weekend without a new Hall of Famer. Scott NEVER scared anyone when he played - and noone cared if Scott was playing or not. Garvey is out because he cheated on his wife with 2 women - and was considered Mr Clean before he got caught cheating
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
I can listen to the Mad Dog and Pete Rose talk baseball FOREVER. Those two should have a show together it would top Everything ever!
How about Dick Allen?
I could never understand Steve Garvey and Keith Hernandez not being in Hall of Fame.
Garvey was a Womanizer and Hernandez was a Druggie who Snitched on his fellow Users in Federal Court.
@@PHN-2024Ok now. Half the players if not more wouldn't be in there if they really did a look see into their personal lives. But I hear you.
@@franknberry6397 The Writers have basically “Black-Listed” Curt Schilling and Jeff Kent because of Curt’s Political Views or Jeff’s I’ll contempt towards the Media. Scott Rolen is they ”Poster Child” for the All American “Clean’ Baseball Player that Writers can Vote for without any Controversy.
You must be joking about Hernandez. If Mattingley isn’t in, how could Hernandez be?
Garvey is punished for him knocking up his mistresses and he built up this fake squeaky clean image Hernandez is borderline but he’s also punished for not being liked by the press
Keith Hernandez should have been in the Hall a long time ago IMO
I agree he’s practically a .300 hitter .296 career average
Keith Hernandez was a Cocaine Abuser when he was with the Cardinals that Snitched on other MLB Users in Federal Court to avoid an Indictment.
nope
@@ddutsie Hernandez is also the best fielding first baseman ever.
@@ddutsieonly position with most gold gloves not in hall of fame. If Ozzie is in he needs to be
Garvey and Dave Parker were both premier players of the mid 70's to early 80's and have stats that match or exceed what Rolan did. Hopefully they get in one day.
Garvey is out because he cheated on his wife with 2 women - and was considered Mr Clean before he got caught cheating
Unfortunately, Garvey is competing against 1st basemen in Cooperstown that had greater power numbers (HR's): Gehrig, Foxx, McCovey, Murray, Thomas, Thome, Musial, etc. That's a reason Mattingly, Garvey and Hernandez are not in.
In addition, Garvey had an OBP of .329, and an OPS of .775. How do those compare with Jim Thome? Or Frank Thomas?
Totally agree! Parker had a laser arm. One of the best all-time throws ever occurred in the 1979 All-Star game. Parker to Gary Carter. Watch it on TH-cam. Amazing throw. Throws a strike from deep in RF to Gary Carter on the fly. Gets Downing of the Angels out at the plate. The Cobra was a great hitter, fielder and leader on the field.
Garvey was a really good player. Off the field, he was a scumbag but most of the players in the Hall were so he should be in.
I viewed Rolan as a very good player .. not a HOFer.
Analytics don't belong in discussions about Hall of Fame consideration.
I agree sooo much.. Scott Rolen was a good player. Good player DOESN’T = Hall of Fame!!!
He did enough, with 300+ HRs, 1,200+ RBI's, and with 8 Gold Gloves, that put him over the top, IMO. As far as 3rd basemen, only Mike Schmidt has at least all 3 that I recall.
Rolen is one of the greatest 3Bman of all time.
Harold Baines in the HOF lowered the bar big time and this is the effects of it now
One season away from 3000 hits, people forget he is miss half a season of stats cuz of the strike
Dude got 1600 RBIs if you get 1500 or more that’s a HOF
Harold has more rbi than 99.5 pct of all players ever and 45 th all time in hits
Thank you writers for finally putting in McGriff!
It is a travesty that he wasn't in on the first ballot!
The Crime Dog
They didn’t put him in, the veterans committee did
@@ftl06 Exactly.
I'm a White Sox fan and they need to ask how the Heck did Harold Baines get into the Hall of Fame? No Gold Gloves, highest MVP vote in any season was 9h place, yah he got a lot of RBI's, was a good player, But not a HOFER!
U two r exactly right. It has become just a baseball museum ( or hall of the good)
It’s lowered the bar🙁
Garvey only had 200 hits 😅
The Hall Of Very Good
I agree its the consistency issue - there are too many "very good" players and you allow some in some not - I'm an old guy who agrees that only certain guys with career consistent magic numbers should get in - 300 pitching wins, 2000 strikeouts, 300 plus lifetime average, 2000 rbis, record breaking accomplishments, numerous awards, mvps titles etc, championships - a combination thereof. then again I'm an old guy who misses pitchers pitching complete games and winning 20 games a season 😄
In today's game 300 wins will never happen again
@@MWebr43 depends if verlander can channel his inner tom brady and pitch till he is 45. besides his long shot chance we will never see another 300 game winner again
How bout 1500 rbis. There’s only been like 10 guys to break 2000 lol
I am old enough to remember when baseball did not have pitch clocks and fake magical runners appearing on second base in extra innings.
Torii Hunter has 9 gold gloves, .280 average, nearly 2500 hits over 350 home runs... All in the same realm or better as Rolen. Hunter won't even get on the veterans ballot.
As a royals fan Jeff Kent deserves it
dan hit the bullseye with the building analogy, the way hall of fames in all sports are going to be are there's the clear-cut penthouse hall of famers then the third, second, and first floor guys. There's nothing wrong with that at all, in my opinion.
If Rolen gets in, A-Rod needs to get in. The writers just made a complete joke of themselves.
Rolen and furgenson Jenkins in the hall of fame but not Garvey and Mattingly? Really?
And Lou Whitaker is still outside looking in.🤦
Lou Whitaker?? 🤡
I think he and Trammell should have went in together. The best infield duo of all-time.
Not taking Baseball Hall of Fame seriously until Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are in it
Steroids they should not be in the hall of Fame.
No one in Philly confused Rolen for Mike Schmidt.
Mike Schmidt said Scott Rolen was a better third baseman defensively.
@@johngalt60 way better
No, but as 3rd basemen go, only Rolen and Schmidt have at least 300+ HR's, 1,200+ RBI's, and at least 8 Gold Gloves.
Agree Schmidt just did not hold a candle to Rollin defensively, too bad he didn’t stay longer in Philli
@kevinmichael9482 Schmidt was a better player than Rolen.
I would put Mattingly in first over Helton, both guys had a 6-7 year window they were amazing before declining and both played the same position.
Helton was better at his peak
@@wavedash101 Mattingly was the best player in baseball for 5 years. Helton wasn’t close to that
@@wavedash101 share some of that crack.
@@TL2354You're absolutely right. Mattingly was far better than Helton at their respective peaks. Helton was not as good defensively and offensively he was aided by Coors Field in a big way, as evidenced by the Home/Road splits. It's not even close.
Mattingly was far more accomplished than Helton, granted I though Helton was a great player but Don Mattingly was totally better and it's a travesty that he's not in.
What about Gary Gaetti or Ron Cey as far as third basemen go? I think a strong argument can be made for Joe Carter? Why? Look at how many seasons he had with 100 or more RBIs.
I think there are three levels
1. First ballot- Tom Seaver ect.
2. 2 -10 years on ballot Jim Rice
3. Executive Committees Phil Rizzuto
There needs to be a fourth level added for ex major leaguers who could self felatiate which would include Joe DiMaggio, Don Stanhouse, Pedro Borbon, Ted Kluszewski,Jim Bibby, Frank Robinson, Manny Sanguiellen Orlando McFarlane, Paul Casanova,Al Ferrara, and Harry Chappas.
Did Danny really say people don’t come out to see Trout??! 🙇♂️
I started following baseball in 1956. Since then, the best 3rd basemen (off/def) in my lifetime were 1) Mike Schmidt 2) Eddie Mathews 3) George Brett 4) Scott Rolen 5) Brooks Robinson It's my opinion that neither one of you know just how good Scott Rolen was. How does his WAR stack up. He wasn't a big mouth and he played in the midwest. So what? He was a GREAT player.
Rolen isn't better than Chipper. Not on his best day.
@@antioch1975 Rolen is not a HoFer
Scott Rolen retired in 2012. I found this on ESPN dated Jul 11, 2016 (3.5 years AFTER Rolen retired)
All-Time MLB Rank: The 10 greatest third basemen
10. Ron Santo
9. Edgar Martinez
8. Adrian Beltre
7. Paul Molitor
6. Wade Boggs
5. Brooks Robinson
4. Chipper Jones
3. Eddie Mathews
2. George Brett
1. Mike Schmidt
Many other websites have him either 9 or 10 but no one has him anywhere near the top-5.
Edgar Martinez is an all time great third baseman now? That’s like saying Craig Biggio is one of the best catchers of all time.
If Rolen was a Mets player, Mad Dog would have said he deserves to be in the HOF.
@@chrisp3255 Wright was good, and it sucks his career ended early, but Rolen was better.
@Chris P Wright has 20 less bWAR and was never as good defensively.
@@chrisp3255That’s like saying Jose Reyes is Derek Jeter without the longevity and rings.
@@chrisp3255 My point was simply one that Rolen did win 8 Gold Gloves because he was a better defensive player and he did win a ring. Just like Jeter had longevity on Reyes, both in total seasons and especially in years where he was a regular starter, and the rings. I'm simply pointing out that your argument basically sounded like "well if Rolen weren't a better player he'd be the same as Wright.". Now, my example is clearly more extreme because Wright is closer to Rolen than Reyes to Jete,, but I'm just pointing out that the things you're saying Rolen had were legit, especially the gold gloves. They also were legit for making Rolen a more deserving Hall of Fame candidate.
Except Mad Dog is not a Mets fan
I always admired what Mike Francesa said..."if you have to think about it, he's not a hall of famer." Rolen, in my estimation is not a h.o.f. If you put Rolen in, you have to put guys like Mattingly, Bernie Williams, or Kenny Lofton in. For the Record I think Mattingly and possibly Lofton had better stats.
Nolan Arenado plays third… this guy is on track to get into the Hall of Fame, a guy I’d go to a game to see.
Also Trout is definitely someone I’d pay to see. His performance at the end of last season was amazing! The consecutive days homering was awesome.
2/5/23
I might bring a unique perspective to this as a 22 year old. I'm not offended that Rolen got in, I get it. There are certain ways of quantifying defence now, that simply did not exist, or were not reliable in Rolen's era. I get it. However, how can somebody vote for him citing defense, but not Andruw Jones, for the same reason? How come Kent isn't in? Why do some voters, refuse to acknowledge closers/relievers if they are legitimate positions? Elaborating on that last point, why did Papelbon and Joe Nathan, fall off the ballot in their first year? I do not care that Rolen is in, I was a kid when he played, I was not rushing to the New York Daily News to check his stats like I did with A-Rod or Manny Ramirez, but I understand him being in.
An issue I have, aside from what I feel is hypocrisy/inconsistency, is where do winners factor into the equation? Bernie Williams has boarderline stats, but has a ton of postseason records and was the best position player on 4 World Series winning teams (5 appearances, I thnk Jeter was better by '03), if everyone and their mother think Pudge Rodriguez and Mike Piazza took roids, why isn't Posada given the benefit of the doubt? He would then be the best offensive catcher in his era while winning 4 championships. Jonathan Papelbon was execellent in the postseason, some thing critics of Billy Wagner point out as a reason to not have him in the Hall, Papelbon even retired as the all time leader in saves for two franchises, those being the Boston Red Sox and the Philidelphia Phillies, en route to getting one World Series ring, and 6 All Star appearances. Why isn't Andy Pettite getting in the Hall? Ortiz took PEDs too? How come guys like David Cone, Willie Randolph, Orel Herschiser, Kieth Hernandez, Dave Parker, Lou Whitiker, Dave Steib and Gene Tenace aren't on these comittee ballot's but PED users who have no chance at getting in, are? How come Kieth Hernandez and Dave Parker are seemingly the only two players who got really pennalized for the cocaine scandals?
I'm not mad per say, about any player getting in, I'm just confused why some guys are in and some aren't. I'm curious if David Wright will get in the Hall, simply because he was regarded as being better than Rolen in the same era. If modern analytics did not exist for Rolen, shouldn't numerous cases of yesteryear be re-evaluated? The Hall of Fame has become interesting from a historical and historiographical aspect, but that interest has come with confusion.
Peace and love everyone, have a great day.
Well, for one, Rolen was better for longer than Jones and many people do vote for both of them on the same principle - good offense combined with otherworldly defense. Rolen just didnt fall off completely like Jones and I think that taints the perspective of Jones in some minds. Williams started putting up good numbers too late to make up for his incredible collapse in his twilight years. He was spent by age 33. Parker had a good peak but only one other good season in 85 outside of those 5 or so years early on. Wright will not get in for the same reason Mattingly shouldnt. They were on a hall of fame trajectory before injuries derailed them but their peak wasnt long or transcend enough to make up for the decline. Wright probably needed one more great season to make it interesting (obviously without injuries he probably waltzs in but thats not the reality we live in)
I always thought Rolan was a hall of famer for a third baseman, but Kent not getting in is awful. I hope Wagner gets in, but I’m a Houston guy. Helton to me is not a hall of famer when it comes to first baseman either. I do agree also that the hall of fame isn’t what it used to be either. It was a lot more sacred and looked at in reverence than how it’s be going since the past couple of years. I mean pitchers getting a career 300 wins or more is almost becoming non existent now. Baseball is just changing. One day they’re may not even be umpires either.
Kenny Boyer was better than Rolen.
It is like these old farrs arenrt even aware Phil Ruzzuto and other small time players are in the Hof , and Rolen his 300 home runs and 500 doubles and over 2000 hits he actually has offensive numbers ,that being said Kent should be in.
Dan is picking this year as the first sabermetric election, but Tim Raines doesn't get in without the rise of advanced metrics, and the Hall of Fame is better for it.
And don’t forget Russo was one of the most vocal anti-Raines people when his HOF case was being discussed.
Garvey, Murphy and Kent should be in the hall of fame.
Rolen is a top 10 3rd Baseman of all time. That’s a hall of famer in my book. Great baserunner and a gamer. Didn’t DH once in his career.
Schmidt
Chipper
Brooks
Brett
Boggs
Beltre
Machado
Arenado
Matthews
Arod
That's 10 off the top my head so which one of those are you taking rolen over them for him to be top 10 don't worry i will wait take as much time as you need my guy lol
I'd take Rolen over Machado. Rolen is a better defender.
@@TheBloodmist81Machado and Arenado don’t have the volume yet, Boggs was a Fenway Park fraud who couldn’t hit on the road, and Brooks was adequate at best with the stick. Rolen is better than those guys.
I understand what they are talking about when they say Hall of the Very Good. However, if Ron Santo is a Hall of Famer, so is Scott Rolen.
At 1:38 Russo does a classic Russo thing. they are talking about how Rolen got 10% of the votes in his first year. Russo thinks that because of that he should not be in. So Russo brings up Jeter and Mariano. The two players who got in with the highest number of votes on their first time being on the ballot. By Russo's thinking here NO ONE should be in if you can not match those two.
Russo is a dumb mark who nobody should listen to. I feel like it’s painfully obvious at this point but sadly people still give him attention.
Well good thing for Rolen its up to votes and not the commentary. I get the points and they’re valid but we’re not really talking about how good he was on the defensive side. I think it matters, I think he belongs in HoF.
If defense matters that much then Ortiz and Edgar doesn’t belong near the HOF
Hernandez was a better fielder. Hernandez is the greatest fielding first baseman ever. Rolen is not as good as Schmidt or Robinson.
Dan, Redford won the Oscar for directing Ordinary People in 1980.
Steve Garvey,definetly,anybody who saw him play assumed they were watching a Hall of Famer,did he sell tickets? You bet he did and I am glad they brought that up,Dale Murphy SOLD TICKETS and was a great ambassador for the game!!!
It’s a crime that Curt Schilling isn’t in.
Just the cancel culture leftists in the BBWAA that kept him out
@@alcostello6114 Right, yes!
@@alcostello6114 The right are the one's who believe in cancel culture more than anyone
@@notoriouseagle1074 oh shut the fuck up you leftist tw*t. That’s such bullshit and you know it. Hollywood is run by you assholes and they’re cancelling people every day. Gotta make sure not to misgender someone, or make a slightly offensive joke around you snowflake assholes.
@@alcostello6114 Schilling can't keep his mouth shut!! He's the same guy in a SI interview that said baseball had a steroid problem only to say while testifying on Capitol Hill that he didn't say such thing.
Rolen was a better player than Steve Garvey, but old guys are gonna love on Garvey.
I LOVE how Russo, of all people is criticizing how long it took Rolen to make the Hall of Fame. Chris Russo is a 2022 Radio Hall of Fame inductee. He was eligible 20+ years ago. His partner, Mike Francesca, on FAN got elected in 2018 yet Russo has the gall to criticize Rolen for not get getting on his first try.
His problem is look at Rolens numbers. Barley 2000 hits. Just barely got 300 home runs and he did this in 17 years. I agree with Mad Dog
I was surprised he got in Todd Helton should definitely be in the hall of fame
Why can't someone at the DP Show figure out how to spell Rolen's name correctly. Be better
That’s how you know he’s not a HOFer.
@@LanceJ. 😂🤣😂🤣
When the Reds got Scott Rolen, I got cable again.
Rolen deserves to be in the HoF. Kent's offensive numbers are a half step above Rolen, but his defense is 2 steps behind Rolen. So yes, Rolen above Kent, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the bar to get in should be set between these two players, there is room for both.
Some players that definitely deserve more consideration for HoF induction than they previously received (sticking to largely non-steroid guys in this list but they should be in too): Thurman Munson, Bill Freehan, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Dick Allen, Kenny Lofton, Rick Reuschel, Kevin Brown, Curt Schilling.
Curt Schilling deserves to be in and the fact a beat writer whose a pedaphile should be out of the hall of Fame, either take the beat writer out or put Pete Rose and many others in cause of the character clause!!!! But Schilling not being in is mind boggling
Right, absolutely, yes!!
Baseball writers are part of the problem. Nerdy stats rule & the audience clicks to watch mma.
Derek Jeter was a near unanimous election and I don't rank him *that* far ahead of Rolen.
You're talking out of your ass, Derek Jeter was a great player, Scott Rolen wouldn't even be worthy of scraping the dirt off of Jeter's cleats.
@@AnthonyMaulucci I didn't say Jeter wasn't better than Rolen (he clearly is). I'm just saying he's not as far ahead of Rolen as it's made out to be.
I hate Scott Rolan. He is not a Hall of Famer
Al Oliver, Albert Belle, Tommy John, Dick Allen & Curt Flood should be guys considered for the HOF now the way the criteria has shifted.
Correct, Curt Flood should be in.
The fact the Rolen gets in, but the likes of Keith Hernandez and Dave Parker are on the outside looking in is a travesty.
The fact that Dan Patrick thinks Mike Trout isn’t a star player shows how out of touch he is with baseball. Or people in general😂
Dan Patrick and the entire EAST COAST is asleep when Mike Trout is playing. Plus, there's no team in Connecticut for him to go to a game.
There are still a few retired MLBB greats that the veterans commitee needs to correct and elect by one of the various veterans commitees....Steve Garvey,Jeff Kent,Curt Schilling,Dick Allen,Lou Whitaker,Dan Quisenberry,Dale Murphy,Thurman Munson,and Mickey Lolich should all be elected/inducted into the baseball hall of fame sometime in the next decade or so as all of these 9 ex greats certainly are very deserving to be included in the baseball hall of fame..
Vada Pinson
Typical NY BS.
It is a shame, Dave Parker is better than most players in the Hall. Five tool player, a true superstar, justice is due.
I wouldn’t say he’s better than most in the hall at all. But he’s definitely worthy to be in there.
Aren't Harold Bains and Ted Simmons in this same "how did they get in" category? (Also - I do believe Trout is in the must see category).
Trout is most definitely in that category. maybe not as much as he was pre-2020 (injuries have really hampered his game), but he’s still a star.
If he doesn’t think trout Briggs people out to opposing ballparks then he’s vastly out of touch.
His “big brain” probably tells him since Trout is humble people don’t go to see him. Since he “thinks” it then it must be true….
At least in the next couple years we have some true first ballot hofers in Beltre and Ichiro. Ichiro was a true generational great. I bet he gets in unanimously.
Albert Belle
Kent was largely considered to be one of the worst defensive second basemen of all time. I thought Rolen shouldn't make it. He's more analogous to Bobby Grich or Craig Nettles, but DEFENSE COUNTS!. Baines was a DH. Rice was a corner outfielder who made a ton of outs. Nellie Fox, Mazeroski, were not better than Rolen.
Helton got on base a lot on the road. He was one of the best fielding first basemen ever. I'd still be OK if he doesn't make it.
Turning 3 triples into 3 outs with the glove is a big deal.
If Coors Field is such an advantage, how come only a fistfull of players (Helton, Walker, Galarraga, Bichette) posted big numbers playing there ? Shouldn't the whole Rockies line up be capable of hitting 30, 40 HRs and hit .350 ??? Ppppppleeeease !!! What is equal is not advantage.
Don Mattingly, Billy Martin & George Steinbrenner
Harold Baines had 6% of the vote his first time on ballot, thrown off and voted in by vets committee.
the fact that albert bell and keith hernandez are not in the hall is a joke
As a Mattingly fan Rolen getting in makes me mad
Rolen was a better player.
Rolen had more Runs, 2Bs, 3Bs, HRs, RBIs, SBs, higher On Base, higher Slugging, OPS, oWAR, dWAR and has an overall bWAR of 70.1, almost 30 higher than Mattingly. No Mattingly isn't a HoF and no he isn't better than Rolen.
@@johngalt60 No he wasn't!!
@@wilnerolivier7971 Regardless of the fact you're comparing different positions, Rolen was still better. Rolen has graded out as the 9th best third baseman in MLB history. Mattingly is far, far, down the list of first basemen. Rolen was a better overall hitter at his position and a much better fielder. His offensive numbers beat Mattingly with the exception of batting average. Look it up.
He’s right it’s now the Hall of Good
Love Chris!!!!
Chris Russo has a problem with everything!!! Shut him up!!!
He's not wrong ! Scott Rolen has just above average career numbers... Put Bobby Bonilla in if this is the bar they are setting.. Bernie Williams as well
Here's how I look at the baseball HOF:
It's the bottom of the 9th and you need a clutch hit, pick any batter and ask yourself can this player get a hit off ____insert HOF pitcher here____ .
Same scenario, you need a strikeout, pick any pitcher and ask yourself can this player get three strikes (or poor contact ground out) off ____insert HOF hitter here____.
My issue is inducting players to the HOF who, in a field of dreams league/game 7, would be nothing more than a utility/bullpen player.
Selling tickets has nothing to do with Hall of Fame consideration. However, i think that Kent, Bagwell and Helton are HOF's because of their overall body of work and because for a significant time in their career they were considered amongst the best or the best player(s) at their position. Both Bagwell and Kent won MVP's and playing in Coors Field should not automatically eliminate a player. Helton was drafted by the Rockies and didnt want to play somewhere else. Should we tell him "Todd, if you leave the Rockies then you will be in the HOF? No, he can play where he wants once he hits free agency.
Well in actuality Harold Baines became the poster child of the Hall of Fame becoming the Hall of the Very Good.
Scott Rolen?? You gotta be kidding me. Dale Murphy, Steve Garvey, Keith Hernandez all should be in ahead of him.
Red Sox outfielder Dwight Evans should be in the Hall of Fame based on his numbers and war.
If you are considering 3B HOFs I’m thinking of Eddie Matthews, Brooks Robinson, George Brett, Mike Schmidt, Chipper Jones. So if Rolen is in, then Matt Williams could be in.
And Doug DeCinces as well.
Kent should have been in long ago. BS stuff here folks. Writers should not vote for this honor. Boys club deciding these things should not happen.
Does defense not count? Rolen is a top 5 defensive 3rd baseman of all time, maybe top 3. Jeff Kent was average at best. There's a big distinction. Kent also moved to first base later in his career. Rolen played the hot corner the whole time
Defense counts imo . Its a huge part of the game. You play defense all 9 inning where you might only hit 4 times a game meaning 5 innings you don't even hit.
If defense counts then Ortiz and Edgar don’t belong in. Defense either counts or it doesn’t
@@TL2354 its rather pathitic of you can't play defense.
If you're gonna go off of star power and someone who sold tickets, you've got to put Bo Jackson in the HoF.
Forget Kent for a minute, if Rolen gets in, the biggest injustice ever, is Omar Vizguel. Arguably the best defensive shortstop of all-time, before the kids that didn't watch him at all argue, go watch a decade or more of his highlights in his prime. Not to mention he batted 2nd for those historic Cleveland lineups for a reason (his discipline with the bat), that had Manny Ramirez (Hall of fame numbers) batting 7th, and Jim Thome (Hall of famer) hitting 6th. Omar had clutch hits throughout his career just people ignored or forget it; and knowing he truly improved his offense from early in career much more than he ever got credit, is also glossed over. He ended up with 2,877 career hits (3,000 was always the pinnacle elite number for lock, but doesn't always need to be achieved, because it was truly unique). He had eleven gold gloves. He legit could win games with his glove alone, which many couldn't do, and he had plenty of hits to boot. He is the biggest snub. Jmt
Good point. Omar should be in.
Steve Garvey is not in the HOF. I just took for granted he was.
I don't know why people pay more attention to BA than OBP. You play to win the game.
I HATE the fact Dan says “you would think he would be in the HOF because he played in a big market” that comment is a fact media and local fans tends to avoid. It’s like Eli getting in the HOF because he played in NY. Or Warren Sapp saying Watt should of won the MVP but LT won it because he played in NY.
Let me guess, he has no idea what the actual standards of the Hall of Fame are and therefore thinks that Rolen is a weak candidate.
The standards are whatever the voters say they are.
@@joebarr725 The voters standards have gotten tougher over the years. This is not even debatable. Unless you think Rabbit Maranville, Rollie Fingers, and Catfish Hunter are better than Jimmy Rollins, Billy Wagner, and David Cone. And if you think that, you don’t know baseball history. It’s a lazy, stupid argument that he is making.
How is Luis Tianr not in the HOF?
The ridiculous induction of Harold Baines a few yrs ago are why we're even having these debates. The people who voted him in were the ones who lowered the floor for everyone.
By the "Baines" standard Rolen is easily in.
Once they put in Edger Martinez they lowered the bar so low almost anyone can get in now. DH's play half the game. Defense is the other half
so if your a DH you should never have a chance to get hof consideration?gtfo with that crap edgar was a monster hitter he belongs period
As far as I’m concerned, a DH had better be able to be an amazing hitter to make up for the lack of defense played.
@@mikem-gb3pj Edgar was not that great a hitter really. His numbers pretty much suck cept a few seasons. His career numbers are very sad actually for being a hitter in the prime steriod ERA he was Not that great.
Sometimes u just have to vote NO when it applies... When u have to think if a guy is a hall of famer, then your answer is NO
It is the Hall of FAME!!! Murphy, Mattingly, definitely should be in. But so should bonds, clemens, etc... you shouldt cancel history
I follow baseball a little bit. I never heard of this Roland guy until he was voted into the HOF
Scott Rolen was great. I got nervous when my pitcher faced Rolen, in the post season. Scott Rolen was a ball player. Jeff Kent never got my attention like Rolen did. I agree about Murphy and Garvey needing to be in. There are a lot of HOFers that didn't sell tickets. Who paid to watch Tony Perez besides his parents? Nobody
Rolen's post-season numbers:
39 games
159 plate appearances (141 AB)
.220 batting average
5 Home runs
12 RBI
But I'm sure his metrics were great.
@@joebarr725 during a postseason game, when he came up, I was nervous. His postseason #s aren't good but he was a tough out. He had a series winner, off Clemens, to win the nlcs and go to the series. Dude was good
@@joebarr725 Thanks for bringing facts into this. Take away that Cardinals World Series and he like .180
Helton has a 58pt difference home vs away batting average Wade Boggs 52pts. And Helton had way more power than Boggs. No one ever mentions fenway park as a hitters park
Andruw Jones should be in if we are discussing gold gloves. Jeff Kent should be in as well if this is the case.
Omar Vizquel, Jim Edmonds, and Dale Murphy are not in either. They were great players who got shafted and deserve a plaque in Cooperstown.
Like everything the HOF that we knew in the 1900's is not the HOF of 2000's. I think it proves that there are too many writers or journalists because there are too many ways to fill ad time and in the end almost everything is about the money.
I disagree that he wouldn’t have made it in off “old standards” he was an A+ defensive 3B, maybe 3 better defensive 3B in the history of the game imo, and no he doesn’t have the compiler stats, but he has literally everything else, he was even a very very good base runner at 6”4, 245lb, 900ish xbh, I mean I don’t see how anyone could not see him as an all time great, take away 5 gold gloves and no he’s not in, but this dude is the Arenado of his era, an absolute vacuum over at 3B, and a cannon arm!
Lol Fred McGriff finally got in…
My beef is not w/Rolen, or anyone else still on the ballot (Helton, etc). My problems are all the guys who should be in long before Scott, like Hernandez, Garvey, Parker, Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, etc. The arrogance and absurdity of the BBWAA is off the chart. Either a guy is a Hall of Famer in his first ballot, or he's not. How does someone gradually become a Hall of Famer? The hindsight argument is weak.
Without their names attached, look at Chipper's stats vs. Sheffield's stats. Then let me know who should be in the HOF. I'll wait.
Both. Chipper's already there, and Sheffield should definitely join him.
They needed a warm body, and Scott was it this year. As I once heard whats a Hall of Fame weekend without a new Hall of Famer. Scott NEVER scared anyone when he played - and noone cared if Scott was playing or not. Garvey is out because he cheated on his wife with 2 women - and was considered Mr Clean before he got caught cheating
I'm sure there are Hall of Famers who were considered to be Mr. Clean and cheated on their wives.