Thank you, brothers, for your thoughts and encouragement on Christ-centered preaching. Quite edifying and indeed important! There is so much that you all said that I want to write down and digest and pass along. By way of encouragement (and you touched on this as well), I think it is critical to understand that since the Fall in Gen 3, all are born fallen. We are all broken, sinful, and needy, from Adam onward. Every text in Scripture was about and to broken people, who apart from Christ have all fallen short of the glory of God. And the only answer to this fallen human, spiritually needy dilemma, is through God's Triune work of redemption through grace. Thus the audience, whatever their situation, is always in desperate need of God's grace, in Christ, through the Spirit. Nothing in Scripture was written that was irrelevant to these facts. This "covenantal framework" (as you described) is foundational to every text. This was true in the OT just as it is in the NT. Its true in all ages, in every generation. Its true for the unregenerate as well as the regenerate; for those who have been justified, and also as they are being sanctified. It never stops being true, or being foundational to the text. It is certainly not irrelevant to recognize, highlight, and exegete this principle throughout God's Word. And to preach in a Christ-centered way is actually the ONLY way to do justice to the text. Otherwise any text preached in a non-spiritual manner would fall far short of God's design.
Totally! I love how our pastor faithfully preaches Christ! For example, in going through the book of Ruth we were shown how Boaz foreshadowed Christ as our redeemer.
A question that few really ask: Are sermons changing people's lives? 1. Calvin elevated the pastor to an unholy position as he thought the pastor was the instrument through which God spoke, making him a New Testament Moses. But if God spoke through the pastor, we wouldn't have so many denominations. In fact, we wouldn't have any. 2. The disciples of Christ were taught doctrine and trained for works of service for 3 1/2 years. Then they were sent on their own. Churches don't do that. 3. Hundreds of years ago, most people could not afford books and had to rely on the pastor for Bible teaching. Now we can learn on our own. The pastor should be the facilitator of learning and ministry. Too often, however, he is the ministry. Congregants oursource their ministry to the pastor and become childlike. 4. There's no place for Bereans in the church service. I taught Attic and "Kione" Greek for 25 years to classics students in Europe. I see that our translations need work. You can't learn a language from a lexicon anymore than you can learn English from a dictionary. 5. A sermon is based in the idea that vocal persuasion changes people's lives. But that' the art of rhetoric. Rhetoric has no place in the church.
1) teaching /pastors are a means of grace. Does not mean they are inspired. 2) the disciples were Jews…they would have had the entire Torah memorized by age 10. They were also in the apostolic era with specific giftings 3) we have access to scripture and resources, but are not placed in authority over ourselves like the shepherd is over the sheep. If anything, this new access to info should make us pickier and more discerning about which church we submit to 4) we are commanded to test every word taught against scripture. If it doesn’t align, scripture gives us a clear to-do list as to how to deal with it 5) sermons are teaching God’s word. This is one of the means that God has ordained for the Holy Spirit to convict us. Faith comes through hearing and hearing through the word of God. Want to be convicted? Find a pastor who teaches from the word, with the focus on Christ.
@@sharamadsen3080 1. What do you mean teaching by pastors are a means of grace? We can read the Bible for ourselves, and 99.99% of pastors teach wrong doctrine. Revelation has nothing to do with the Body of Christ. We are not Christ's bride. We are his Body. 2. No one has been known to memorized the entire Old Testament. Back then people had parchment scrolls (very expensive) and papyri, the latter that was not available like our paper is today. Oral learning was the norm. And oral learning occurred in places were scrolls were available. 3. "Faith comes through hearing and hearing through the word of God." And you have confined deaf people to the pit. Back THEN Scripture was preached orally because unless you were very wealthy you could not afford a scribe and parchment. Wealthy people did donate to the synagogues scrolls and parchment. But we're talking about the need of 7 to 8 sheep for a scroll which might hold one book. Papyri was usually of dubious quality and some lasted while others didn't. 4. This answer makes no sense. Again, oral hearing was the norm in the ancient world. Christ opened a scroll of Isaiah in a synagogue. The average Jew didn't have scrolls. Papyri was reused over and over again by scribes who would erase the contents chemically. People learned through oral instruction. Even after the invention of the printing press, we just didn't have millions of presses going on at once. I don't need a preacher to orally teach me because they can't teach well., and because I can read the Bible out loud to myself. "The faith comes by hearing" part was totally in line with the ancient world. If not, then tracts are useless unless read by a pastor, and books are useless unless read by a pastor. Can't we see that we are doing this all wrong? A pastor is a facilitator who helps people engage in ministry, both in the world and in mutual ministry (which we don't have). The church is dying. Preaching as we know it worked in the 1500s. There's no need for it now, not like we have it.
@Carl Jethro Hebrews was not written forr the Body of Christ. That's one reason why pastors can't teach. Another is Lordship Salvation, which is why I don't bother to learn from pastors.
Thank you, brothers, for your thoughts and encouragement on Christ-centered preaching. Quite edifying and indeed important! There is so much that you all said that I want to write down and digest and pass along.
By way of encouragement (and you touched on this as well), I think it is critical to understand that since the Fall in Gen 3, all are born fallen. We are all broken, sinful, and needy, from Adam onward. Every text in Scripture was about and to broken people, who apart from Christ have all fallen short of the glory of God. And the only answer to this fallen human, spiritually needy dilemma, is through God's Triune work of redemption through grace. Thus the audience, whatever their situation, is always in desperate need of God's grace, in Christ, through the Spirit. Nothing in Scripture was written that was irrelevant to these facts. This "covenantal framework" (as you described) is foundational to every text.
This was true in the OT just as it is in the NT. Its true in all ages, in every generation. Its true for the unregenerate as well as the regenerate; for those who have been justified, and also as they are being sanctified. It never stops being true, or being foundational to the text.
It is certainly not irrelevant to recognize, highlight, and exegete this principle throughout God's Word. And to preach in a Christ-centered way is actually the ONLY way to do justice to the text. Otherwise any text preached in a non-spiritual manner would fall far short of God's design.
Totally! I love how our pastor faithfully preaches Christ! For example, in going through the book of Ruth we were shown how Boaz foreshadowed Christ as our redeemer.
YESSS! Oh I love this.
My husband and I and nearly 6000 others were blessed to hear Ken Jones at Ligonier in Orlando yesterday.
Tell him we said high!
So good ;), thank you brothers, God bless
A question that few really ask: Are sermons changing people's lives?
1. Calvin elevated the pastor to an unholy position as he thought the pastor was the instrument through which God spoke, making him a New Testament Moses. But if God spoke through the pastor, we wouldn't have so many denominations. In fact, we wouldn't have any.
2. The disciples of Christ were taught doctrine and trained for works of service for 3 1/2 years. Then they were sent on their own. Churches don't do that.
3. Hundreds of years ago, most people could not afford books and had to rely on the pastor for Bible teaching. Now we can learn on our own. The pastor should be the facilitator of learning and ministry. Too often, however, he is the ministry. Congregants oursource their ministry to the pastor and become childlike.
4. There's no place for Bereans in the church service. I taught Attic and "Kione" Greek for 25 years to classics students in Europe. I see that our translations need work. You can't learn a language from a lexicon anymore than you can learn English from a dictionary.
5. A sermon is based in the idea that vocal persuasion changes people's lives. But that' the art of rhetoric. Rhetoric has no place in the church.
1) teaching /pastors are a means of grace. Does not mean they are inspired.
2) the disciples were Jews…they would have had the entire Torah memorized by age 10. They were also in the apostolic era with specific giftings
3) we have access to scripture and resources, but are not placed in authority over ourselves like the shepherd is over the sheep. If anything, this new access to info should make us pickier and more discerning about which church we submit to
4) we are commanded to test every word taught against scripture. If it doesn’t align, scripture gives us a clear to-do list as to how to deal with it
5) sermons are teaching God’s word. This is one of the means that God has ordained for the Holy Spirit to convict us. Faith comes through hearing and hearing through the word of God. Want to be convicted? Find a pastor who teaches from the word, with the focus on Christ.
@@sharamadsen3080
1. What do you mean teaching by pastors are a means of grace? We can read the Bible for ourselves, and 99.99% of pastors teach wrong doctrine. Revelation has nothing to do with the Body of Christ. We are not Christ's bride. We are his Body.
2. No one has been known to memorized the entire Old Testament. Back then people had parchment scrolls (very expensive) and papyri, the latter that was not available like our paper is today. Oral learning was the norm. And oral learning occurred in places were scrolls were available.
3. "Faith comes through hearing and hearing through the word of God." And you have confined deaf people to the pit. Back THEN Scripture was preached orally because unless you were very wealthy you could not afford a scribe and parchment. Wealthy people did donate to the synagogues scrolls and parchment. But we're talking about the need of 7 to 8 sheep for a scroll which might hold one book. Papyri was usually of dubious quality and some lasted while others didn't.
4. This answer makes no sense. Again, oral hearing was the norm in the ancient world. Christ opened a scroll of Isaiah in a synagogue. The average Jew didn't have scrolls. Papyri was reused over and over again by scribes who would erase the contents chemically. People learned through oral instruction. Even after the invention of the printing press, we just didn't have millions of presses going on at once.
I don't need a preacher to orally teach me because they can't teach well., and because I can read the Bible out loud to myself. "The faith comes by hearing" part was totally in line with the ancient world. If not, then tracts are useless unless read by a pastor, and books are useless unless read by a pastor. Can't we see that we are doing this all wrong? A pastor is a facilitator who helps people engage in ministry, both in the world and in mutual ministry (which we don't have). The church is dying. Preaching as we know it worked in the 1500s.
There's no need for it now, not like we have it.
@Carl Jethro Hebrews was not written forr the Body of Christ. That's one reason why pastors can't teach. Another is Lordship Salvation, which is why I don't bother to learn from pastors.
/66
Yy
To paraphrase Spurgeon 'Preach Christ or go home!'.