Every time it appears on the screen, I keep thinking your camera's color balance is way off, but that's just because I'm used to the red of the Pi 400! I wish the Pi 400 had a built-in speaker. Would've been a very nice little quality of life improvement.
As much as I love the Raspberry Pi foundation and their products I'm really frustrated that they've chosen their corporate customers over hobbyists. They've abandoned all of the little manufacturers who make their own cases, their own accessories, etc that have historically added to the Pi ecosystem but are struggling now because the hobbyists that are their primary customers are no longer able to purchase a Pi at all and can't use all of the incredible innovations that are available. I'd love to see more availability for the Pi products but maybe a competitor like Orange Pi can establish enough support in the community that we'll get installation images for it as well. The hackability of the Pi is incredible but the accessibility that they have for non-technical people to just download and install an image onto a micro-sd card is incredibly important as well.
Would love to see gaming in Linux. I'm very curious to see if we can beat some of the handhelds. Maybe get N64 PS1 and Dreamcast. I suspect GameCube will be really hard
Causing market confusion is Orange Pi's bread and butter. But what's really funny is that the "800" has 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM, is not the 8th generation of anything, etc.
@@rb3020 That would be almost impossible as the savings primarily comes from the fact that it's a single PCB with soldered chips on it. Upgrading it would push the cost up towards that of a regular budget PC.
@@joey199412 your pseudo fits you well... If you can upgrade it, who cares about spending a bit more ? A movable socket doesn't cost a lot, it's just an excuse to sell whole new sbc at each release.
it's not much faster than an over locked pi4. That power brick is doing most of the work. Thank Alder Lake for bringing good Big.little scheduling to Linux. Hopefully Pi5 will be power efficient.
@@ch4.hayabusa Ah that's a shame. I wouldn't consider myself a RPi fanboy or anything, but I'm so happy with their products, that I'd much rather wait for a Pi5 to see what they got up their sleeve. Besides, my Pi3 and Pi4 are still working well...so in no real rush to use a Pi800 lol
Love the fact this thing has a VGA plug. It makes turning this into a retro games machine and plugging it into a CRT PC monitor for that vintage look really easy 😁
And a headphone jack - love the RPi400 but it is something my use case ends up seeming to need (carrying it around as an "emergency computer" to connect to displays that are available, many I find don't supply audio). Matter of fact, one of my two 400s is just connected to a VGA/audio adapter to make use of my home monitor's dual inputs, on that note 🤔
I've got an old SONY flat screen with VGA. Do these have a delay as well? Or does it only delay on digital in/out like HDMI? I see no reason why a flat should be slower than a CRT.
It truly is amazing how the old becomes new again! My first computer was a "keyboard PC". If anyone is interested look up the Vic20 from the early 80's
@@Sashazur Yeah, it was kind of like a C64. I'm not sure which one was older though. It used the old Polk programming language. I programmed my first video game on it!
That's why I'm interested in getting one of these. Reminds me of my childhood where the keyboard WAS the computer and you plugged it into a TV. They called them 'home computers' back then. I still have an old Sinclair ZX81, Radio Shack TRS-80 and a Texas Instruments TI-99 4/A in one of my closets. I have no idea if any of them still work.
Really nice that they included a VGA port. This type of device is ideal for pairing up with an old monitor.There's so many old monitors with only VGA and DVI input that could find a second life in emulation and other applications. Given how difficult and expensive it is to get any new Raspberry Pi device, it's good to see these alternatives.
Yes care Bear..me too..I first saw this 800 August time..full size HDMI and VGA..my thoughts were even if the RPi version was actually available..which it isn't..sold out all over Europe..along with every other RPi SBC..this was a better choice anyway..at least for myself..most will probably prefer the Raspberry though..I just happen to dislike mini HDMI with a vengeance..and us old school can't escape VGA ports..everything I have uses them..even better with Android soon..well done Steven Zhao..he's the software engineer there
At that height, it would be amazing to have a Pi built-in inside a mechanical keyboard. Bonus points if said keyboard has hot-swappable switches (not sure about how feasible that would be)
Super doable, I'm surprised I haven't seen one yet. And with hot swap becoming standard on custom keyboards I'd be shocked if someone made one that wasn't
I don’t know much about keyboard tech except that mechanical keyboards are desirable and different people like different switches due to feel, response time, etc. What is the additional benefit of hot swappable switches?
There's no reason at all to call it "800" instead of a "600". It has 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM. I guess the RK3399 will have been on the market for 8 years before too long.
Problem with these things is always the same: lack of opensource graphic APIs implementation, which the Pi provides. Why is that important you ask? Because not having opensource graphics ties you to an old kernel, and prevents you from using the full potential of the GPU.
Which is why browsers struggle with video decoding. But they will catch up with time like the Pi did because it didn't have accelerated graphics at first either. I'd bet if he used a custom build of ffmpeg for that chip it would play video at full speed. I had to download YT videos on my Pi at first to get proper acceleration.
@@anon_y_mousse yeah, after a year or 2 the current video codec is sometimes too hard to use for these PC. I had an Apple IPad that could no longer stream video. Also a wii u. Must get something with x Continual updates and common chipsets.
Well, I don't want a fairly obsolete gpu... as rpi models have limitations that GPUs from more than 15 years ago in many parts. The rpi4 GPU will never be able fully support OpenGL 3.0 because it does not support/lack hw 8 draw buffers some very old PC engines required it, no native support MSAA , And not going GLSL 4.00 for several DX11/OpenGL 4.x engines with limited Opengl 3.x GLSL1.30/GLSL1.40/GLSL3.3 For example Xbox classic emulation requires OpenGL 4.0 with Xemu . The GPU rpi's it's very obsolete early DX9/OpenGL 2.1 era and partially DX10/OpenGL 3.x support from ~15-20years ago . It does not have early Vulkan 1.1 api 100% implemented because it lacks hw VK_KHR_sampler_ycbcr_conversion and VK_KHR_shader_draw_parameters It is very sad that today to run OpenGL 4.x only Tegra TK1 ad higher and Apple m1/m2 can do it The rest of the manufacturers under arm are too limited driver or lack hw to offer that. The closest to offering that is Qualcomm + adreno 650 which already offers Vulkan 1.3 and several stuff for OpenGL 4.x has many things implemented and hardware prepared in the structure to implement it in its driver. We needed a gaming manufacturer for arm/risc-v that meets the requirements to implement the graphics apis of the last 15-20 years 100% with no stuck Propietary drivers NVIDIA or Apple m1 metal (on mac wrapper limited voltenVK if not exists metal backend) Only boards that have PCI-express and can inject a PC GPU with free drivers for amd GPUs or nvidia drivers already released for pci-express boards arm64 used in some servers.
@@bulletpunch9317 mostly better if compared with Mali/broadcom gpu's but missing driver implemented supporting the API . The problem is that many arm manufacturers are oriented only in android and robotic of use and throw away after years. Little effort to offer support for Linux where OpenGL support is more common compared with OpenGL ES API. Sometimes you can poorly X11/wayland stuff perfomance due poor perfomance or partially stuff implemented under linux with no official supported. The state of drivers is quite concerned very fragmented and they are rarely updated maybe you can go a little further with some custom rom for android principal development by containing a newer driver but you never get to see a notorious stagnant progress to partial Vulkan 1.1 with old development branches with no finished driver. I have seen dual source support disabled in some drivers developed by samsung or some stuff optional never implemented . The only manufacturer is the one I have mentioned Qualcomm Adreno 650 with recent mesa3d drivers open souce you can have a lot of work from what I say. I haven't seen a driver on Samsung exynos 2200 phones that fully supports Vulkan 1.2 or Vulkan 1.3 required for current DXVK (it's a DirectX to Vulkan wrapper).
Anyone knows, what the support in Linux is for this device? Cause i sometimes read people complaining, that a given CPU/GPU is not support by the mainline-kernel and that is a bad thing.. But i have no idea, how i can know, if i will get newer kernels/distributions for a device or i'm stuck with ubuntu 20.04 for example. Can anyone help me?
This thing looks sick! The fact that it has VGA out means you could use a VGA to Component converter to get a direct video signal out to a CRT TV, of course you'd need it to be set up at 240p resolution. If this thing can run it's own type of RetroPie or Batocera and can be switched to 240p then I want one.
I think there's a kind of confusion here about Armbian. It's not like a separate OS. It's just a team (a great team, btw) who're working to make few other OSes like Debian and Ubuntu to work a bit better on a wide variety of different arm cpus, by tweaking various things like set of kernel modules and their settings. And they also redistribute those resulted images of those OS + scripts to create your own images, if needed. But that is it. It's not a separate OS
Its a lot more then just a separate OS. That's the point. Most Linux distributions on the market just take a base, make a new wallpaper / theme ... and its a new distribution.
I can't shake the bad reputation I remember getting from Orange Pi's really bad customer support from a few years ago. This product looks interesting but if they can't provide long-term support and enhance the product down the road then I'm not sure why I would spend time on a system that will fade away. (change my mind OP)
There's no reason to change your mind. Once you realize that Raspberry Pi is junk too (Broadcom GPU and software issues), you'll come full circle back to x86.
My experiences have to do with unsupported features like full GPU support after the product has been on the market for over a year. I'm primarily a Linux developer and their lack of a good plan to support the platform leaves me underwhelmed.
Im waiting for RISCV Hardware. Dont get me wrong i like Arm, it is really power effecient and its becoming really powerful but the code is still proprietery so hopefully we get powerful RISCV hardware soon in the future
Nice review! I look at the Pi-400 (and now the OrangePi-800) as a modern Commodore 64. But at $100 - it's an order of magnitude cheaper. Even Moore's law doesn't account for this reduction in cost. Amazing.
Moore's law did account for this cost-reduction, and you can actually map the relative price-to-performance of various Pi generations to find that the value is *decreasing* overall. The original $35 Raspberry Pi was the best bang-for-your-buck computer ever made, IMO.
@@dial2616 I'd like to see your numbers on Moore's law for this… But as far as I can tell the raspberry pi 400 and or the orange 800 should cost $599 like the Commodore 64 did. the fact that it's 1/6 the cost is what I'm pointing to is having done better than Moore's law
dude this looks sick. I'm not a huge raspberry pi fan when it comes to personal computing use, it's just not fast enough, however the rk3399 does have noticeable improvements
@@monochrome_linux I'd consider it more of a modern-off-the-shelf remake of the C64, cranked up to 11. Still a 6502 at heart, but it's capabilities are pushed to the limits. So it's more of a development of the C64, rather than a successor. Though I've just seen the video was released yesterday, so i'm gonna take a look Pi400 and Pi800 on the other hand are true modern systems, that can be used for everyday tasks. I am curious to see what the X16 can do.
One of the things I really care about is vanilla kernel support. I don't know with a lot of these boards if I will be stuck on an old kernel version forever.
I'm enamored, but just like the pi400, there's only 4gb of ram which is way too little for decent desktop use. I would love to see an 8gb variant and it would be great!
Like WTF why not 8 GB or even upto 64 GB Ram? But it is good that it is faster than the pi400; and that someone else is producing pi400 clones. Cause I think you can't even buy the pi400 out of stock. Maybe they'll make a variant version of the pi800 with atleast 8 GB ram. Glad someone else thinks like me; 1st thing I wanted to see was how much ram. Too bad there wasn't an option like a ARM GPU BUS and you could hook up a external GPU.
Knockoff product from a company whose marketing model is deception. Yes, by all means, make an all-in-1 keyboard microcomputer, but make it something distinctive. Give this its own identity (and name) and be ready to provide software support for it in the long term.
Dunno why snapdragon doesn't make a 8gen1 without the phone options like simcard 5g camera etc just the gpu cpu and Bluetooth wifi to make an android box with active cooling for overclocking Could literally drop the price of a 8gen1 to be used in handhelds and media streaming devices.
Why did they copy the Raspberry Pi? They need their own originality, not piggy backing off the market leader! Without originality, limited after sales footprint, not opensource, plus not having Raspberry's incredible global community, the Orange Pi800 will be just another me-too-product, but without the important unique customer following! Come on Orange give us something really interesting!
I really hope orange pi gets more support like the raspberry pi. I will say keep in mind that most of the orange pi's that are LTS, not the os lts but the name of the biard is something like orange pi 3/4 LTS, currently do not have wifi support on the current kernel. Its seems that it has to do something with the new wifi chip they are using. Apparently they only work with the OS that they provide from there website and do not work with ones directly from othe places like Armbian, mint, or manjaro. So I would be interested to see if they are using the older wifi module on this one or atleast one that is more supported than the new one they are using on most boards. Last thing I will say that if you want to use one as a desktop computer than definetly use one with at least 4gb of ram. I have the orange pi 3 LTS with only 2gb ram and in a desktop environment its pretty slow but just cli work great.
This new kind of computer should came with ram and SD in their slot versions. There is space and plenty of options (specially for ddr3L sodimm and m2 SATA/nvme)
Awesome: I hope they release something like the "Pro" version of this: 8GB LPDD4 Ram, Wireless mouse, Stereo Speaker and an internal slot for an SSD. Maybe with a prince range within $150-$199. This could make it as a more decent traveling cyberdeck.
What a perfect example of straight shameless stealing of industrial design. Nothing original on this piece (except for the CPU), even deceitful naming. Perormance wise it looks good, but I can't get rid of that "dirty" feeling about this product.
Maybe one thing not very clear from the video is that the GPIO are different. This is a 26 pins connector like on a very old Pi, and not a 40 pins like in most Raspberry Pi computer. Not sure what is the pinout, but you could lower the expectation here. As a desktop, you don't need that, so maybe most user don't care.
Can you please do a comparison video for people like me who are on a really tight budget and want to make maximum use off of a single system like this? Does it make more sense for me to buy this or a similar single board computer, make an old PC and put Android or linux on it, or buy a celeron laptop with either Windows so I can install linux or Android or with chromeOS out of the box, giving me direct access to Android apps?
@@technicallycorrect838 100$ roughly. Plus I'm in Pakistan so don't assume we have old i7s rotting in storage. A 3rd gen i5 could still cost you over 100$ if you want a good monitor and other accessories not from the junk yard.
I use a pi400, it runs great 1280x720 But all of my monitors are big 1920x1200s and the pi400 does run not as smooth at those big resolutions. I'm using blender on mine to make BSPs and 3d characters with 5 layers of LOD cutoffs so it isn't too bad. LibreOffice, printing, and scanning all work great too. I will say though, raspberry Pi(ish) type computers really benefit a lot from running off of SDcards. One SDcard for desktop use, one for gaming on a heavily stripped down environment, etc.
would love to see manjaro running on this (though not my favorite archlinux derivative) Also would love to see how this performs with a well done overclock
The title should read "A brand New etc". 'An' is only used before a noun that starts with a vowel or vowel sound. Like an apple, or an elephant, or an igloo.
this is disappointing i was hoping it to be a better upgrade.the only thing stopping me from buying p400 is the 4gb ram and lack of sata or nvme ports/sockets. id like at least 8gb ram and a sata connected 2.5in ssd so running windows is fine and not slow or ram restricted. mp uses 6.3gb ra, at idle with just stem open in background and maybe one tab youtube.
I'm surprised these guys don't get sued since the design is exactly the same as the pi 400 and it even has the name "pi 800". Looks like a better computer than the pi 400 though for the same price so overall looks very interesting.
i'd def prefer a pi400. i bet the os on that thing needs craploads of tweaking and will have a lot of problems. i'm surprised they don't get sued with it copyin' the raspi so hard :) at first i though raspi came out with a successor. but, eh, it's good that it exists. i hope raspi does make a successor. with full size hdmis and slightly more i/o than the stock raspi board.
But does it have the one key feature that the pi lacks: Can you actually buy the bloody thing? Been waiting almost a year for some Pis to come back in stock. :T
It's a shame they would hobble it with mono sound, they saved something like 2 cents. The last time I bought something with mono sound was in the 1980's.
Does it support video over type-c...? So we can do a single type-c cable with a mini touch display for power touch and video out.. It would be a really nice setup
I find it really shady that they completely stole the Pi400 design and name-convention, down to the colours. They're hoping some people will mistake this for a new Raspberry Pi and get more sales. There's inspiration and there's blatant copying.
@@123ftw1 I'm not sure, but I don't think they would if they could. Raspberry Pi has a great reputation which is unusual for tech companies, they're also not into stifling creativity etc. It would probably damage their brand to start suing competitors. Just letting this stinky Orange-Pi company look like the unoriginal A-holes is probably the best option.
This type of SBC (keyboard type) would be great for schools... Get each student one, and they just have to get monitors for them to use in the classrooms. You could teach robotics or even just programming with them, or use them for word processing, etc.
RK3399 is quite powerful. Well sufficient for every day office and browsing tasks. I like the connection options of that device. Especially having HDMI and VGA gives you the option to plug in 2 monitors if you have an old VGA display lying around somewhere or use an adapter.
Quick question, oh Prime one, I haven't finished the video yet but can it do video transcoding save for plex? If I do see that in the video I'll come back and delete this comment. I just didn't want to forget when it popped into my head... Getting old and all LOL
When it comes to emulation performance on SBCs and units like this you might want to try grabbing the retropie install script, setting the OS to boot to the terminal by default (you can always type startx to manually start the GUI) and then run the retropie script and have it compile things from source so they are tweaked for that board and you don't have the overhead of the desktop environment in the background.
Can’t say I’m a fan of the deliberate naming to confuse people, although the box and labelling does say either Orange Pi 800 or OPi800, not just Pi 800. ETA, a video title change would be appreciated. Regardless, yes it’s faster than a Pi400, but personally I’ve had nothing but issues in the past with Oranges products, both hardware failing and poor software/driver support and this seems to still be the case looking at the YT playback test. Additionally, Orange gives nothing back to the Pi Foundation and is purely a commercial product trying to pick up the scraps of all the hard work the foundation does. So even ethically, it’s a hard pass from me. Also, that’s not a full GPIO output on the back.
Every time it appears on the screen, I keep thinking your camera's color balance is way off, but that's just because I'm used to the red of the Pi 400!
I wish the Pi 400 had a built-in speaker. Would've been a very nice little quality of life improvement.
Yeah, or at least an audio jack.
If the Orange Pi had a 40 pin GPIO port it would be a real contender for me :(
me tooo Pi400. That Pi800 is much better GPU???
Hey I know you
@@TomNook. how?
As much as I love the Raspberry Pi foundation and their products I'm really frustrated that they've chosen their corporate customers over hobbyists. They've abandoned all of the little manufacturers who make their own cases, their own accessories, etc that have historically added to the Pi ecosystem but are struggling now because the hobbyists that are their primary customers are no longer able to purchase a Pi at all and can't use all of the incredible innovations that are available. I'd love to see more availability for the Pi products but maybe a competitor like Orange Pi can establish enough support in the community that we'll get installation images for it as well. The hackability of the Pi is incredible but the accessibility that they have for non-technical people to just download and install an image onto a micro-sd card is incredibly important as well.
Would love to see gaming in Linux. I'm very curious to see if we can beat some of the handhelds. Maybe get N64 PS1 and Dreamcast. I suspect GameCube will be really hard
Due to the 800 I was expecting 8GB of RAM. Is the keyboard more precise than the RPi 400 keyboard?
Damn, for a second I was so happy thinking that Raspberry Pi 800 is released 😔
That confusion is 100% intended. I don't want to reward that behavior tbh.
@@HelgiWaag Yeah, there is no way now that I will buy anything from Orange Pi
Causing market confusion is Orange Pi's bread and butter. But what's really funny is that the "800" has 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM, is not the 8th generation of anything, etc.
@@youtwobe3507 its just because 800 is 2×400, maybe orange pi is telling that their version is double the performance than raspberry pi !? Idk
Yeah, unsubbed from ETA, loved his content, but this whole "Gotcha!" tactic with intentionally misleading titles is infuriating and terrible behavior.
I hope more companies keep making these new Microcomputers based on ARM and Single board computers.
I agree but would like it to be expandable and upgradable like normal PCs and laptop motherboards
@@rb3020 That would be almost impossible as the savings primarily comes from the fact that it's a single PCB with soldered chips on it. Upgrading it would push the cost up towards that of a regular budget PC.
@@joey199412 your pseudo fits you well... If you can upgrade it, who cares about spending a bit more ? A movable socket doesn't cost a lot, it's just an excuse to sell whole new sbc at each release.
x86 is better. Intel should flood the market with Jasper Lake and Alder Lake-N. ODROID-H3 is coming in at $129.
I want see Rockship 3588 pc.
Now calling it a 'pi800' is just confusing - it made me think it was the upgrade to the Raspberry Pi400
it's not much faster than an over locked pi4. That power brick is doing most of the work.
Thank Alder Lake for bringing good Big.little scheduling to Linux. Hopefully Pi5 will be power efficient.
@@ch4.hayabusa Ah that's a shame. I wouldn't consider myself a RPi fanboy or anything, but I'm so happy with their products, that I'd much rather wait for a Pi5 to see what they got up their sleeve. Besides, my Pi3 and Pi4 are still working well...so in no real rush to use a Pi800 lol
4GB Ram only, that's the deal breaker. 8GB is absolute minimum before I'll even consider it.
Maybe an emulation speed comparison between the Pi400 and the "Pi" 800?
Love the fact this thing has a VGA plug. It makes turning this into a retro games machine and plugging it into a CRT PC monitor for that vintage look really easy 😁
And a headphone jack - love the RPi400 but it is something my use case ends up seeming to need (carrying it around as an "emergency computer" to connect to displays that are available, many I find don't supply audio). Matter of fact, one of my two 400s is just connected to a VGA/audio adapter to make use of my home monitor's dual inputs, on that note 🤔
Android on crt, not vintage... But very interesting.
Give it to a 9 year old child with a basic VGA monitor.
@@ricky4673 He said GAMES Breh.
I've got an old SONY flat screen with VGA. Do these have a delay as well? Or does it only delay on digital in/out like HDMI? I see no reason why a flat should be slower than a CRT.
It truly is amazing how the old becomes new again! My first computer was a "keyboard PC". If anyone is interested look up the Vic20 from the early 80's
Hmm I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the VIC-20? Was that something like the C64 I also think I’ve heard of once maybe? 🧐😂
@@Sashazur Yeah, it was kind of like a C64. I'm not sure which one was older though. It used the old Polk programming language. I programmed my first video game on it!
I had a ti-994a as my first computer.
Mine too 😃
That's why I'm interested in getting one of these. Reminds me of my childhood where the keyboard WAS the computer and you plugged it into a TV. They called them 'home computers' back then. I still have an old Sinclair ZX81, Radio Shack TRS-80 and a Texas Instruments TI-99 4/A in one of my closets. I have no idea if any of them still work.
NB: that is not a 40 pin GPIO header, it's a 26 pin.
Really nice that they included a VGA port. This type of device is ideal for pairing up with an old monitor.There's so many old monitors with only VGA and DVI input that could find a second life in emulation and other applications. Given how difficult and expensive it is to get any new Raspberry Pi device, it's good to see these alternatives.
Yes care Bear..me too..I first saw this 800 August time..full size HDMI and VGA..my thoughts were even if the RPi version was actually available..which it isn't..sold out all over Europe..along with every other RPi SBC..this was a better choice anyway..at least for myself..most will probably prefer the Raspberry though..I just happen to dislike mini HDMI with a vengeance..and us old school can't escape VGA ports..everything I have uses them..even better with Android soon..well done Steven Zhao..he's the software engineer there
Wish they went ahead and made it a full size keyboard/ The pi400, while cool, sucks to type on for long periods of time.
At that height, it would be amazing to have a Pi built-in inside a mechanical keyboard. Bonus points if said keyboard has hot-swappable switches (not sure about how feasible that would be)
Super doable, I'm surprised I haven't seen one yet. And with hot swap becoming standard on custom keyboards I'd be shocked if someone made one that wasn't
I don’t know much about keyboard tech except that mechanical keyboards are desirable and different people like different switches due to feel, response time, etc. What is the additional benefit of hot swappable switches?
@@Sashazur it males it easy to change the switches, otherwise you'd have to desolder them and that's a pain
16GB memory and ability to stream video well under Linux is when these would become interesting as desktop computers
2:23 it doesn't have a 40 pin gpio. I think it is 26 pin.
There's no reason at all to call it "800" instead of a "600". It has 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM. I guess the RK3399 will have been on the market for 8 years before too long.
Problem with these things is always the same: lack of opensource graphic APIs implementation, which the Pi provides.
Why is that important you ask? Because not having opensource graphics ties you to an old kernel, and prevents you from using the full potential of the GPU.
Which is why browsers struggle with video decoding. But they will catch up with time like the Pi did because it didn't have accelerated graphics at first either. I'd bet if he used a custom build of ffmpeg for that chip it would play video at full speed. I had to download YT videos on my Pi at first to get proper acceleration.
wtf!!!!!!!! this use mainline and PANFROST!!!!
@@anon_y_mousse yeah, after a year or 2 the current video codec is sometimes too hard to use for these PC. I had an Apple IPad that could no longer stream video. Also a wii u.
Must get something with x
Continual updates and common chipsets.
Well, I don't want a fairly obsolete gpu... as rpi models have limitations that GPUs from more than 15 years ago in many parts.
The rpi4 GPU will never be able fully support OpenGL 3.0 because it does not support/lack hw 8 draw buffers some very old PC engines required it, no native support MSAA ,
And not going GLSL 4.00 for several DX11/OpenGL 4.x engines with limited Opengl 3.x GLSL1.30/GLSL1.40/GLSL3.3
For example Xbox classic emulation requires OpenGL 4.0 with Xemu .
The GPU rpi's it's very obsolete early DX9/OpenGL 2.1 era and partially DX10/OpenGL 3.x support from ~15-20years ago .
It does not have early Vulkan 1.1 api 100% implemented because it lacks hw VK_KHR_sampler_ycbcr_conversion and VK_KHR_shader_draw_parameters
It is very sad that today to run OpenGL 4.x only Tegra TK1 ad higher and Apple m1/m2 can do it
The rest of the manufacturers under arm are too limited driver or lack hw to offer that.
The closest to offering that is Qualcomm + adreno 650 which already offers Vulkan 1.3 and several stuff for OpenGL 4.x has many things implemented and hardware prepared in the structure to implement it in its driver.
We needed a gaming manufacturer for arm/risc-v that meets the requirements to implement the graphics apis of the last 15-20 years 100% with no stuck Propietary drivers NVIDIA or Apple m1 metal (on mac wrapper limited voltenVK if not exists metal backend)
Only boards that have PCI-express and can inject a PC GPU with free drivers for amd GPUs or nvidia drivers already released for pci-express boards arm64 used in some servers.
@@bulletpunch9317 mostly better if compared with Mali/broadcom gpu's but missing driver implemented supporting the API .
The problem is that many arm manufacturers are oriented only in android and robotic of use and throw away after years.
Little effort to offer support for Linux where OpenGL support is more common compared with OpenGL ES API.
Sometimes you can poorly X11/wayland stuff perfomance due poor perfomance or partially stuff implemented under linux with no official supported.
The state of drivers is quite concerned very fragmented and they are rarely updated maybe you can go a little further with some custom rom for android principal development by containing a newer driver but you never get to see a notorious stagnant progress to partial Vulkan 1.1 with old development branches with no finished driver.
I have seen dual source support disabled in some drivers developed by samsung or some stuff optional never implemented .
The only manufacturer is the one I have mentioned Qualcomm Adreno 650 with recent mesa3d drivers open souce you can have a lot of work from what I say.
I haven't seen a driver on Samsung exynos 2200 phones that fully supports Vulkan 1.2 or Vulkan 1.3 required for current DXVK (it's a DirectX to Vulkan wrapper).
Anyone knows, what the support in Linux is for this device? Cause i sometimes read people complaining, that a given CPU/GPU is not support by the mainline-kernel and that is a bad thing.. But i have no idea, how i can know, if i will get newer kernels/distributions for a device or i'm stuck with ubuntu 20.04 for example.
Can anyone help me?
For a moment I thought this the Pi 400 with memory chip replaced with 8GB chip, but no!
This thing looks sick! The fact that it has VGA out means you could use a VGA to Component converter to get a direct video signal out to a CRT TV, of course you'd need it to be set up at 240p resolution. If this thing can run it's own type of RetroPie or Batocera and can be switched to 240p then I want one.
We want a performance video on this, test emulation as far as GameCube and ps2, and some benchmarks if possible
I think there's a kind of confusion here about Armbian. It's not like a separate OS. It's just a team (a great team, btw) who're working to make few other OSes like Debian and Ubuntu to work a bit better on a wide variety of different arm cpus, by tweaking various things like set of kernel modules and their settings. And they also redistribute those resulted images of those OS + scripts to create your own images, if needed. But that is it. It's not a separate OS
That's... Like every other Linux distro.
Its a lot more then just a separate OS. That's the point. Most Linux distributions on the market just take a base, make a new wallpaper / theme ... and its a new distribution.
I am liking the VGA but I have the Raspberry Pi 4B 8GB in the Vilros keyboard/touchpad hub though and don't really need it
I can't shake the bad reputation I remember getting from Orange Pi's really bad customer support from a few years ago. This product looks interesting but if they can't provide long-term support and enhance the product down the road then I'm not sure why I would spend time on a system that will fade away. (change my mind OP)
Buying to watch it fade…😂
The RK3399 is well supported by multiple distros. I'm expecting that Manjaro and Armbian will support the Orange Pi 800.
There's no reason to change your mind. Once you realize that Raspberry Pi is junk too (Broadcom GPU and software issues), you'll come full circle back to x86.
My experiences have to do with unsupported features like full GPU support after the product has been on the market for over a year. I'm primarily a Linux developer and their lack of a good plan to support the platform leaves me underwhelmed.
@@johncnorris In that case it's probably better to keep an eye on Panfrost and Hantro.
you need to enable hardware decoding in firefox (and hope it works) to play videos better. I android, youtube app utilises it by default
the keyboard pc reminds me of commodore 64, which is also just a keyboard and a pc
That's running XFCE. If you get bored, install the Chicago95 theme and make it look like Windows 95, it even has old Plus themes😆
Im waiting for RISCV Hardware. Dont get me wrong i like Arm, it is really power effecient and its becoming really powerful but the code is still proprietery so hopefully we get powerful RISCV hardware soon in the future
RISC-V will have the same ecosystem fragmentation and proprietary GPU problems that you see with ARM. x86 is the true savior.
This looks like my next toy project.
I love these things. They're like a throwback to the old 8/16 bit micros of the past.
Yeah, I immediately thought Commodore 64.
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”
Orange Pi: *INTENSELY SINCERE*
please test android on this device
8 Gb is the minimum for me to consider it. As a working-trave computer, it's really good, but to keep open my firefox tabs, 4 Gb is deal braker.
Awesome cool! And only 3 in stock in the whole entire country, right? Just like RP4? LOL. If not where can I buy one?
Orange: "Hey, lemmie copy your homework!"
"OK, just change it up a bit so it doesn't look suspicious..."
I love this form factor. Would like to see an 8gb version though. Have you found any others?
Ditto. That form factor is great for a quick to setup computer.
Wait for the Orange Pi 888
RK3588 NEEDED
Nice review! I look at the Pi-400 (and now the OrangePi-800) as a modern Commodore 64. But at $100 - it's an order of magnitude cheaper. Even Moore's law doesn't account for this reduction in cost. Amazing.
Moore's law did account for this cost-reduction, and you can actually map the relative price-to-performance of various Pi generations to find that the value is *decreasing* overall. The original $35 Raspberry Pi was the best bang-for-your-buck computer ever made, IMO.
@@dial2616 I'd like to see your numbers on Moore's law for this… But as far as I can tell the raspberry pi 400 and or the orange 800 should cost $599 like the Commodore 64 did. the fact that it's 1/6 the cost is what I'm pointing to is having done better than Moore's law
dude this looks sick. I'm not a huge raspberry pi fan when it comes to personal computing use, it's just not fast enough, however the rk3399 does have noticeable improvements
This is quite exciting, looking forward to an Android / Linux hybrid OS like Volks PC for the best of both worlds.
Pi400 and Pi800 are the comps we wanted to replace the C64.
This is absolutely the way that C64 mini should have gone.
Well.. technically, the proper sucessor for a commodore 64 should be the commander X16 from the TH-camr 8 bit guy amd his team.
@@monochrome_linux I'd consider it more of a modern-off-the-shelf remake of the C64, cranked up to 11.
Still a 6502 at heart, but it's capabilities are pushed to the limits.
So it's more of a development of the C64, rather than a successor.
Though I've just seen the video was released yesterday, so i'm gonna take a look
Pi400 and Pi800 on the other hand are true modern systems, that can be used for everyday tasks.
I am curious to see what the X16 can do.
Man, Orange Pi cutting it close with the design and naming. I wonder if they'll get sued?!?
One of the things I really care about is vanilla kernel support. I don't know with a lot of these boards if I will be stuck on an old kernel version forever.
Runs mainline.
@@microlinux Excellent then. I might have a look at getting one of these then.
@@dave7244 yeah,my only concern is the 5v input thingy. It would be much better 12v jack or PD
Can you compare some tests with the pi 400 side by side? Would be nice to know how much faster it is
I would love to see Manjaro ARM running on this machine 👍
But will it run Blender >2.79 at more than 2 frames a second?
I'm enamored, but just like the pi400, there's only 4gb of ram which is way too little for decent desktop use. I would love to see an 8gb variant and it would be great!
Agreed, given the name, you'd think they'd at least throw in 8GB of RAM. A M.2 slot wouldn't hurt either...
Like WTF why not 8 GB or even upto 64 GB Ram? But it is good that it is faster than the pi400; and that someone else is producing pi400 clones. Cause I think you can't even buy the pi400 out of stock. Maybe they'll make a variant version of the pi800 with atleast 8 GB ram. Glad someone else thinks like me; 1st thing I wanted to see was how much ram. Too bad there wasn't an option like a ARM GPU BUS and you could hook up a external GPU.
Knockoff product from a company whose marketing model is deception. Yes, by all means, make an all-in-1 keyboard microcomputer, but make it something distinctive. Give this its own identity (and name) and be ready to provide software support for it in the long term.
Can it be possible to run Chrome OS on it? Might be a good budget children's pc to use
Dunno why snapdragon doesn't make a 8gen1 without the phone options like simcard 5g camera etc just the gpu cpu and Bluetooth wifi to make an android box with active cooling for overclocking
Could literally drop the price of a 8gen1 to be used in handhelds and media streaming devices.
Glad to see it has a full sized HDMI port, because the Pi 400 has mini HDMI and it's hard to find cables and they are very fragile.
Looks like a great compact PC for basic computing tasks on the cheap. It would be nice to see a Kubuntu ARM with the KDE Plasma desktop for it.
I do love the "breadbin" style computer formfactor.
Got to try out a Pi400 last year. Though it was great. Nice to see there is some competition out there.
Why did they copy the Raspberry Pi? They need their own originality, not piggy backing off the market leader! Without originality, limited after sales footprint, not opensource, plus not having Raspberry's incredible global community, the Orange Pi800 will be just another me-too-product, but without the important unique customer following! Come on Orange give us something really interesting!
I really hope orange pi gets more support like the raspberry pi. I will say keep in mind that most of the orange pi's that are LTS, not the os lts but the name of the biard is something like orange pi 3/4 LTS, currently do not have wifi support on the current kernel. Its seems that it has to do something with the new wifi chip they are using. Apparently they only work with the OS that they provide from there website and do not work with ones directly from othe places like Armbian, mint, or manjaro.
So I would be interested to see if they are using the older wifi module on this one or atleast one that is more supported than the new one they are using on most boards.
Last thing I will say that if you want to use one as a desktop computer than definetly use one with at least 4gb of ram. I have the orange pi 3 LTS with only 2gb ram and in a desktop environment its pretty slow but just cli work great.
This new kind of computer should came with ram and SD in their slot versions. There is space and plenty of options (specially for ddr3L sodimm and m2 SATA/nvme)
There is no hope for that. Not even the RK3588 supports SO-DIMM/DIMM RAM, just 32 GB of soldered.
Awesome: I hope they release something like the "Pro" version of this: 8GB LPDD4 Ram, Wireless mouse, Stereo Speaker and an internal slot for an SSD. Maybe with a prince range within $150-$199. This could make it as a more decent traveling cyberdeck.
What a perfect example of straight shameless stealing of industrial design. Nothing original on this piece (except for the CPU), even deceitful naming. Perormance wise it looks good, but I can't get rid of that "dirty" feeling about this product.
Maybe one thing not very clear from the video is that the GPIO are different. This is a 26 pins connector like on a very old Pi, and not a 40 pins like in most Raspberry Pi computer. Not sure what is the pinout, but you could lower the expectation here. As a desktop, you don't need that, so maybe most user don't care.
Waw, cool. A Pi400 clone!
Can you please do a comparison video for people like me who are on a really tight budget and want to make maximum use off of a single system like this? Does it make more sense for me to buy this or a similar single board computer, make an old PC and put Android or linux on it, or buy a celeron laptop with either Windows so I can install linux or Android or with chromeOS out of the box, giving me direct access to Android apps?
How tight of a budget? In the 150-200$ range I would just get a used ThinkPad and put Ubuntu or your preferred distro.
@@technicallycorrect838 100$ roughly. Plus I'm in Pakistan so don't assume we have old i7s rotting in storage. A 3rd gen i5 could still cost you over 100$ if you want a good monitor and other accessories not from the junk yard.
I use a pi400, it runs great 1280x720
But all of my monitors are big 1920x1200s and the pi400 does run not as smooth at those big resolutions. I'm using blender on mine to make BSPs and 3d characters with 5 layers of LOD cutoffs so it isn't too bad. LibreOffice, printing, and scanning all work great too.
I will say though, raspberry Pi(ish) type computers really benefit a lot from running off of SDcards. One SDcard for desktop use, one for gaming on a heavily stripped down environment, etc.
The device has 26 pins, not 40 pins as stated in the video.
CLICKBAIT 👎 Don't reward this obvious attempt at confusing consumers by buying one. Shame on Orange Pi
would love to see manjaro running on this (though not my favorite archlinux derivative) Also would love to see how this performs with a well done overclock
I agree about Manjaro and a overclock video would be nice
You want that it breaks more often ? :)
The title should read "A brand New etc". 'An' is only used before a noun that starts with a vowel or vowel sound. Like an apple, or an elephant, or an igloo.
this is disappointing i was hoping it to be a better upgrade.the only thing stopping me from buying p400 is the 4gb ram and lack of sata or nvme ports/sockets. id like at least 8gb ram and a sata connected 2.5in ssd so running windows is fine and not slow or ram restricted. mp uses 6.3gb ra, at idle with just stem open in background and maybe one tab youtube.
I'm surprised these guys don't get sued since the design is exactly the same as the pi 400 and it even has the name "pi 800". Looks like a better computer than the pi 400 though for the same price so overall looks very interesting.
i'd def prefer a pi400. i bet the os on that thing needs craploads of tweaking and will have a lot of problems. i'm surprised they don't get sued with it copyin' the raspi so hard :) at first i though raspi came out with a successor. but, eh, it's good that it exists. i hope raspi does make a successor. with full size hdmis and slightly more i/o than the stock raspi board.
I've heard this style of computer referred to as a "keyboard wedge" think C64, Apple II, etc.
That Android source graphic looked like the N from Nougat - that would be very old if so. Rockchip's 3399's BSP not supported beyond Android 7?
They state android 12 image is in the way.
Why didn't they go with the rk3588? It's up to over 2x faster than the 3399
But does it have the one key feature that the pi lacks: Can you actually buy the bloody thing?
Been waiting almost a year for some Pis to come back in stock. :T
It's a shame they would hobble it with mono sound, they saved something like 2 cents. The last time I bought something with mono sound was in the 1980's.
It's a modern version of "Commodore 64". I wish it had Window 11 OS in it. Also need more RAM and atleast 1 tera bytes of internal memory 😊☺️
lmao. the branding. i cannot.
I just realized that manufacturers can make keyboard computers with just taking off the screen and touchpad
When I see "RK", I always dread the overheating. Have they improved on that front?
Does it support video over type-c...? So we can do a single type-c cable with a mini touch display for power touch and video out.. It would be a really nice setup
I was impressed until I saw that it only had 4GB of memory. In 2022 thats just ridiculous.
really cool form factor, but why not include a trackpad, similar to a logitech k400, so its truly a complete system in the box
Excellent idea 💡
I find it really shady that they completely stole the Pi400 design and name-convention, down to the colours. They're hoping some people will mistake this for a new Raspberry Pi and get more sales. There's inspiration and there's blatant copying.
I'm not familiar with other single board computers and to be honest at first I thought it was new version of Pi400.
Can RaspberryPi sue them?
@@123ftw1 I'm not sure, but I don't think they would if they could. Raspberry Pi has a great reputation which is unusual for tech companies, they're also not into stifling creativity etc. It would probably damage their brand to start suing competitors. Just letting this stinky Orange-Pi company look like the unoriginal A-holes is probably the best option.
Really looking forward to the Android review
I want something like this with an 8 core CPU and 8GB RAM
I wish that Raspberry Pi company would create more stock, because they only offer the RPi 4 for over $100 I remember when they were reasonable priced.
They would if they could. But if they can’t get the chips they need what are they supposed to do?
This type of SBC (keyboard type) would be great for schools... Get each student one, and they just have to get monitors for them to use in the classrooms. You could teach robotics or even just programming with them, or use them for word processing, etc.
I really hate them ripping off the Pi 400 design. Literally no shame at all.
As i see for 99$ you can go for used desktop except you need small space
RK3399 is quite powerful. Well sufficient for every day office and browsing tasks.
I like the connection options of that device. Especially having HDMI and VGA gives you the option to plug in 2 monitors if you have an old VGA display lying around somewhere or use an adapter.
It’s a shame they couldn’t design something themselves.
Quick question, oh Prime one, I haven't finished the video yet but can it do video transcoding save for plex? If I do see that in the video I'll come back and delete this comment. I just didn't want to forget when it popped into my head... Getting old and all LOL
As much as I like orange pi they are severely lacking in the software development department
When it comes to emulation performance on SBCs and units like this you might want to try grabbing the retropie install script, setting the OS to boot to the terminal by default (you can always type startx to manually start the GUI) and then run the retropie script and have it compile things from source so they are tweaked for that board and you don't have the overhead of the desktop environment in the background.
have you gotten your hands in an Intel GPU yet? im very curious to see the Emulation performance of these cards
Could you please test Manjaro and some Amiga emulation? Thanks!
Wish it had been an RK3588s...
I wish it had more memory, like 8 GB, or even a dimm slot for 64GB!
Can’t say I’m a fan of the deliberate naming to confuse people, although the box and labelling does say either Orange Pi 800 or OPi800, not just Pi 800. ETA, a video title change would be appreciated.
Regardless, yes it’s faster than a Pi400, but personally I’ve had nothing but issues in the past with Oranges products, both hardware failing and poor software/driver support and this seems to still be the case looking at the YT playback test.
Additionally, Orange gives nothing back to the Pi Foundation and is purely a commercial product trying to pick up the scraps of all the hard work the foundation does. So even ethically, it’s a hard pass from me.
Also, that’s not a full GPIO output on the back.
hello eta, I've never seen you make a video with a crt screen.