This is outstanding! I am just getting into backcountry/downhill cross country skiing, and have learned so much from your channel. I don't yet have the confidence on the downhill portions Colorado has to offer, and have found myself taking the skis off to walk some steep stuff that's beyond my skill level. I've picked up a bunch of great tips here that I can't wait to put to use. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!
Thanks for the positive feedback. From what I've read, Colorado is having an amazing snow season this year, so its a good excuse to get out and enjoy XC skiing in the backcountry.
Awesome video Tom. I've been getting into off track skiing this past year and I will totally be practicing your pointers the next time I'm out. Happy trails
Thanks Tom for presenting! I am planning to buy the same skis and learn telemark techniques. I am experiences alpine skier but all the backcountry ski adventures will be new to me. Your video helped a lot! Thanks!
Nordic off trail skiing is a lot of fun, but the equipment choices can be daunting, and there is a bit of a learning curve for free heel skiing, but I'm sure you will quickly figure it all out. It will be a great journey. If you haven't already watched it, check out my video from a few years ago where I describe the different skis / boots that I use for the wide variety of skiing in my area th-cam.com/video/lTGvQzTC6hI/w-d-xo.html
Be sure to check out Jared's video on step turns. Most XC skiers use the step turn more than the telemark turn, especially as they transition from skiing on groomed terrain to the backcountry. th-cam.com/video/nP6SwsRWo8Y/w-d-xo.html
Nice! Interesting perspectives. I learned to telemark on a set-up similar to that. It was slow going. (Of course, I started at age 58, am not much of a downhill skier, and not a natural athlete.) Eventually I got some wider skis and plastic boots. (Fisher S-bound 112 and Garmont Excursions) Progressed with the tele faster after that. But for touring that is a heavy and clumsy outfit-although not as bad as I anticipated. Now, if I were going to an area that I knew would not have any challenging downhills, I might go back to the touring outfit, and I could do a bit of turning on that. Of course the old-school guys could ski anything on skinny skis with leather boots, and I wish I could do that. I'll echo your advice to learners, to practice a lot on easy slopes, before trying harder stuff. Weight on the back ski is the truth, man.
Tom, thanks for covering this stuff! Call it "survival skiing"? Few if any people using XCD gear are going to manage doing windshield-wiper parallel turns going down through the trees in deep powder. That's a fantasy. But low-angle traverses between kick-turns, step-turns up into the hill, skiing up into the side-slopes on woods roads and troughed-out trails, and side-stepping down the too-steep sections--it's all stuff that saves your bacon in off-track XCD skiing. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Well said. The advantage of an XC setup over downhill specific setups is the ease of motion through the woods, on the flats and in moderate rolling terrain. The most important thing about downhill skiing on XC skis is to get down safely. Style points don't count, at least in my mind.
I just picked up a pair of S-Bound 112s last week and like a lunatic I mounted BD 01 cable bindings and am currently running them with T2eco (plastic) boots. I have a lot to learn as far as turning them, but they kick and glide great and they climb amazingly well. Gonna get a pair of 75mm leather boots for long xc tours, and a set of Nordic step 75mm adaptors for my mountaineering boots to use them as approach skis for ice climbing and big peaks. Fun fun fun
Excellent advice here, bringing back memories of when I started learning how to do the telemark turn. I was fortunate enough to take a lesson with Oliver at Smugglers Notch in VT as a first step and having a lesson was really helpful even though I was 6/10 alpine skier at that time. Other than that it's just been that slow progress as you describe here and now some 12 years later I've become a much better skier even though I don't get out that much. I'd like to add a bit of experience using Madshus Epoch skis which is I think are little wider than these Fischers but also have a pretty decent camber. Mine are 185cm with nnn-bc and are pretty great for rolling terrain kick and glide. When I've taken them to a resort I found the step-telemark became the go-to technique when the going got steeper. Alas, the Fischer boots I have are not very good and started pinching toes and so I haven't used them in a few seasons. I'm really looking forward to getting some good leather boots and using these again!
@@Doug762a It's a old-fashioned technique from the days of long straight skis and conditions/ability don't allow for making smooth linked turns. If in a traversing pattern, you initiate a turn by rising up and then pointing that uphill ski to where you want to go and briefly transferring weight there. In that brief moment of unweighting of the downhill ski you snap it around and settle in on the new trajectory. There's a drill too for descending narrower spaces: keep going back and forth from parallel to parallel with a wedge in the middle. Do this action fast and you can descend most anything in control (probably tired at the bottom).
This is a wonderful video and so much fun to watch with the scenes from different perspectives. Good advice too for skiing back-country conditions where the snow quality changes and you don't know exactly what is underneath you. I will point out at 11:04 we see Tom "boinking" his poles along the turn as he descends. I have heard this called "lobstering". It is good to avoid this if you can because it prevents you from having a body position facing down the hill and you tend to point your shoulder down the hill rather than having your navel point down the hill when you do it. In fact, we can see Tom doing just that as he turns sideways with his turns. You should try to keep your navel pointed down the hill and rotate your legs and hips at your waist instead of your torso following the turn. Also you can run into your poles with your skis and trip on them when lobstering or just fall over your poles and bend/break them. Try to have one pole plant per turn.
Yes, my pole plants are pretty sloppy in this video. In my defense, this was the first time I had ever donned these skis. They were way too short for me, and I just didn't feel all that balanced on them. Appreciate the feedback and the pointers.
@@tomm9850 I wouldn't call you "sloppy", Tom. I just thought it was a good opportunity to give some pointers. I think the whole video is excellent and you clearly put a lot of work into it. The video is fun and informative and worthwhile. I enjoyed watching it more than once. You show what it is really like skiing solo on ungroomed terrain. It isn't like a Warren Miller film. I love it.
@@flutingaround There are more similarities with Telemark skiing and alpine skiing than differences. Body position, weighting/lifting during turn pole-plant are pretty much the same.
Really good advice and great attitude, do what you can but just keep doing it and you will get to where you want to be. Thanks for taking the time. All of my XC is off trail and not a lot of steep slopes. I am not the greatest skier and when I have come to some down hills that have me worried, I just take my time and get down to the bottom. Thanks for posting this, one of the best I have seen.
Watching this after my first outing on my xc skis, having struggled to really do anything other than move in a straight line or get into a snow plow on some small hills. 6:58 "their other snow conditions where it's a real crusty, breakable crust or maybe really heavy, wet dense snow" Well that might explain it. Had a few days of alternating rain & snow before some really wet stuff coming in while I was up there. It just seemed excessivly difficult for me to move the skis in anyway other than forward lol.
XC skiing in bad snow conditions can be very frustrating to say the least. Thanks for tuning in and I have my finger's crossed that you will have some great cold and soft snow for your next outing.
Great video. Greatly informative. Last time I went out I had a hard time. this helped to recalibrate me. I just need more practice and have fun!! Thanks!
I'm sure you master it with enough time and practice. Embrace the times when it works and don't get discouraged the times is doesn't. There are just some snow conditions that are very difficult and we all have to resort to "survival" tactics. :)
@@tomm9850 Thanks! I am using Marquette backcountry skis, I got years ago. I just switched from 3 pin to Telelbindings to give me a little better heal retention. I like to trapes up small hills and meander my way down.
@@tomm9850 When I went out yesterday, I realized that my big challenge was that im used to alpine, where I can lean into my boots to get my tips up or to lead my edges. Do you have any recommendations for moving out of that mindset
With telemark, it is all about balance on the balls of the foot, especially when using light gear. As you step up into plastic boots, active bindings, and downhill skis, the fundamentals stay the same, but it becomes much easier to control the skis. I've been a freeheeler all my life, so I've never had to go through the transition process. I don't know if you live in an area where you could take some lessons, but that might help, especially if the instructor does both alpine and telemark. If not, then my best recommendation is to start on gentle terrain with good soft snow and practice, practice, practice simple turns left and right turns. It will eventually click and then it won't seem so difficult. Here are a few links that might help www.wikihow.com/Do-Better-Telemark-Ski-Turns bishopshreds.com/blogs/big-burly-bloggery/82695620-tips-for-beginners-and-folks-with-left-turns-that-suck Here is the hop technique. This is very difficult to master on light touring gear, but it will give you an idea of what is possible with downhill skis, plastic boots, and an active binding system. th-cam.com/video/0GSTmSPgoRg/w-d-xo.html
@@tomm9850 Thanks. Everything is pretty hard packed and windbblown at the moment. Ill plan to go out again when we get some more cover. Question on these skis im using. The Marquettes have pre-drilled holes for the bindings putting the pin line ~6" forward of the line of balance... Would you tink this makes an appreciable difference, or just keep practicing....? Thanks! :)
Hey Tom great video and great advice, I just got some 88's and haven't mounted them yet. I was thinking I would put some magnums on them but was wondering if you thought they would be better with a 3 pin? I am also planning a solo trip to Wyoming at the end of February to try and put them to use. Would you have any videos on trail recommendations or any resources you would care to share on places? Also hoping the Alfa's are working out for you! thanks Shaun
Check out my video where I compare the NNNBC vs the NN 3 pin. th-cam.com/video/HQU-9DO3XKk/w-d-xo.html Both systems work very well, and each has its merits, and I ski both. I have the NNNBC on my Traverse 78's and the Voile 3 pin on my S-Bound 98's. The 88's could go either way, but I was very satisfied skiing my wifes's 88's with my Alfa Skarvet NNNBC boots. If you plan to use the 88's for turns, be sure to pick a boot with ample ankle support. Most of the NNNBC boots sold in the USA are optimized for the kick and glide end of the spectrum. Most of the NN 3 pin boots on the other hand are optimized for turn control. There are exceptions to the rule however, so I think you need to pick the boot that is suitable for your use, and that will determine the binding. The Alfa Skarvets have been working out well for me. I didn't mention it in the video, but I was skiing the Alfas with the 88's for this review. I will post an updated Skarvet review next week. You didn't say what part of Wyoming you were visiting, but if you are heading toward Jackson, check out this link for great information on trails in the area jhnordic.com/ Click on the trails option, then use the filter option to see the trails that match your preferences. Let me know more about the type of skiing you are planning to do and the area you will be in, and I'll see if I can come up with some suggestions for you.
@@tomm9850 Thanks for the great reply, I found a great deal on some Alfa Montana's so I think I will go with a Magnum and try and get the best turns I can out of them. I will be heading down from Montana first stopping on the North Road then down so I think I may do a loop into Wyoming down trough Lovell, stopping at Antelope Butte, then down to Wind River, over to Jackson, possibly skiing into yellowstone for a day ( I remember your video from the begging of the season). Then back up through Idaho to Montana again, stopping at West Yellowstone and Big Sky on the way back. Any trails or suggestions would be appreciated as the snow will determine a lot of where I go. I will try and ski anywhere from a skinny for the groomed track to the 88's for a backcountry adventure. I don't think I will bring the tele's for this trip. That website is amazing but a bit overwhelming.......so many choices!!!
Great video, as usual I learned something :) I just picked up a pair of these ( with otx boots ) and cannot believe how well they handled. Pallalel zooming down narrow trails. They stopped like a pair of ice skates. Maybe its the boots, but it felt like I could really dig in with my heels. Also thumbs up on your improving camera work and editing 👍 👌
Appreciate the feedback and glad that you are enjoying the 88's. As they say, the best pair of skis are the ones you are on. :) Hope you have a great winter.
Pole placement and timing for the telemark turn is often awkward, especially in the backcountry. I tend to use my pole plants for balance as well as timing and for forward locomotion. I should probably do a video showing the "textbook" or proper way of using the poles in the telemark turn, but my bad pole habits work well for me and it is just the way I ski.
Tom, the content of this work keeps improving (wish my ski skills could keep up). Can you speak to the use of ski poles? When I'm working a turn I sometimes feel that the poles are just in the way. What should I being doing with these poles? Also how does my body weight shift as I go from a right tele turn to a left turn? Is that weight out over the tips or more centered over the camber?
When I look at this video, my pole plants are anything but graceful. The textbook technique is to keep the arms out in front and give a slight tap into the snow as you begin to come up from the knee bend and transition into the next turn. I can see myself tapping the snow for balance in between the turns and the general advice is to use the poles for timing and not for balance. My pole use is directly tied to my XC background, and I slip back into that mode by muscle memory if I'm not thinking about proper form. The mantra from Free-Heel Skiing by Paul Parker is "tap, turn, tap, turn" . This video should probably be used as an example of the incorrect way to use poles. I obviously was having a bit of a problem finding my balance since it was the first time skiing my wife's too short for me, high camber skis. My pole plants are easier on my tele setup with wider skis, plastic boots, and active bindings. Check out this youtube video for proper pole plants th-cam.com/video/6BBn3ACfarw/w-d-xo.html The weight shift is harder to describe and varies quite a bit depending on the angle of the slope and the snow conditions. For me, my weight bias moves to the front ski as the slope angle increases. The weight shift changes from my left ski to my right ski during the transition. It is important to keep some weight on the trailing ski to keep it under control and to assist in the turn.
Hi Tom. I have about 25+ years working in ski shops and ski resorts. One thing I see over and over again is mis-mounted skis. Either someone has mounted the skis themselves or a shop has done a poor job. When this happens, most of the time bindings are mounted too far back and this makes skis very difficult to turn. It doesn't matter the width of the ski, the type of binding(NNNBC or 3pin) or the type of boot(leather or plastic). 1 or 2 cm back can absolutely ruin an otherwise perfectly good turning ski. I would ask "ianjt" to investigate the mounting position of the binding on the ski. Take it to a local shop with EXPERIENCE with XC/XCD gear and have them take a look. Anyway, just my humble opinion. Thanks.
Good advice. I wish that Fischer would provide information on their website regarding the manufacturer's recommended mounting position for each of their ski lines. It would be very useful information when you pick up a used pair of Fischer skis as you never know who mounted the bindings. I've been mounting my Fischer skis with the 3 pin line on the balance point of the ski. On my Voile skis, I've used Voile's recommended mounting position, which is a bit forward of the balance point.
@@tomm9850 Today I did 5 laps of effortless telemark turns in the powder. Been trying to learn this properly since I was 7. My lifelong dream come true, and huge freedom now - thanks to you and this very video. I did exactly what you said. Salomon Adv-89 with Alpina Alaska nnn-bc. Eternal gratitude.
Great video! Really cleared up some misconceptions I had. Just discovered your channel. I'm just getting into cross country skiing now that I'm moving to the Midwest.
1:43 "You really shouldn't ski anything wider than 70 mm on a groomed trail". Now that is an interesting comment that I have never heard before, but it does make sense. I am guessing it is because grooming machined trails are narrower than 70 mm. I have noticed that my 75 mm binding and my wide boots "scratch" the sides of the groomed trail grooves while skiing. It is a lot of work widening out the trail with the sides of my boots, but I don't know any way around it besides maybe binding my feet and wearing a skinnier boot.
I would like to see a video on getting down a slope that's way too steep for XC gear. In case you didn't have much of a choice. How to get down slowly and safely.
Good idea for a future topic. The technique described at 12:40, to traverse across the hill if there is enough room, works well if the terrain is open and the snow is soft. This technique won't work on a narrow, steep, and icy trail. Under those conditions, if a snow plow is not possible or the slope cannot be side stepped, then the best idea might be to remove the skis and walk down the slope.
Hi Tom, awesome teaching video! I've been XC skiing for a few years now and it's hard to find info on a set of adventure skiis. I live in western Washington but plan on going further east to better snow when I can. Do you think the 88s are wide enough for just about any back country? Should I go thinner? I don't plan on taking them down Mt. Baker by any means haha but kinda like what you are skiing in this video Anything you can share would be much appreciated! - Olav
In this video I'm skiing the Voile Objective BC skis with the Voile 3 pin traverse binding and Alfa Greenland leather boots. The Objectives are a lightweight downhill ski and are great, but they are by no means an XC ski. My ski partner on this day was skiing the Asnes Ingstad with an NNNBC binding and Alfa Guard Advance boots. As you can see, the Ingstads were working great. The Ingstad is an XC ski with similar dimensions to the Excursion 88. Julie skis the Excursion 88's in the backcountry and I think they are a good off trail XC ski. The conditions were ideal on this day and the 88's would have been OK, but when I'm "touring for turns" I prefer the Sbound 98's over the 88's and I'll ski the Objectives if the day's tour does not have long sections of flat kick and glide. For kick and glide tours, I ski the Fischer Traverse 78's. The 88's are half way in between the 78's and the 98's, so if I could only have one off trail XC ski, the 88's would be a good choice. When it comes to off trail touring, the boot is almost more important than the ski. Be sure to get a good fitting boot, and if "touring for turns" are your thing, get one with ample ankle and lateral support to help you control your skis.
Great video! Thank you. I'm skiing Montana and Yellowstone coming from Minnesota (no hills). Are snowplow stops not recommended in backcountry conditions?
Snowplow stops and turns can be useful in the backcountry when conditions allow, but are difficult to do when the snow is deep and the hills are steep. Snowplows work best on packed or compacted snow when the skis can stay on top and the snow is firm enough for the ski's edge to bite. This works well on groomed trails and some snowmobile trails, if they are wide and not too rutted up. You can also use the snowplow in deep or heavy snow, but it requires much more force and can sometimes be difficult with soft boots. Have a great time skiing Yellowstone. It is a magical place in the winter.
@@tomm9850 The ski tips can become stuck in the deep ungroomed snow when snow ploughing to stop or cook off speed and then you will crash , over the handle bars style, and eat snow and hurt your knees. :-0.That is where Telemark turning comes into its own. Snow ploughing and Stem Christie turns work OK on rolling mellow descents but do not offer control and power steering the way Telemark techniques do on steeper terrain.
My backcountry ski poles are the K2 lockjaw carbon. Mine are about 5 years old. They work well. Here is a link to their newest version k2snow.com/en-us/p/lockjaw-carbon-plus-pole
thanks for the video i am working on my touring skills and this helps. question, what are the poles you are using? look to have a bigger basket and are adjustable.
The poles in this video are K2 lockjaw carbon. Mine are about 6 years old and have served me well, but it is time I replace them. The straps are badly frayed and the basket have a couple of broken webs. I think they have held up well considering the amount of use. I have a set of Dynafit Speed Vario 2.0 Ski Poles that I will put in service this season. I use adjustable poles in the backcountry because I prefer to use a short pole, around 125 cm when skiing downhill and a longer pole, around 135 cm when skiing in the flats. It only takes a second or two to adjust the length. The baskets are circular and about 4 inchs (100 mm) in diameter. These are commonly called "powder baskets". Adjustable backcountry poles can be used for recreational skiing on groomed trails, but fixed length poles with a smaller / tapered basket are a better choice, because the snow is usually firm and packed at a nordic center.
What bindings/boots are you using? I'm learning on NNN BC. I've been told NNN BC aren 't stiff enough to run effectively, but I've also heard that they are.
The Excursion 88's I'm skiing in this video have the NNNBC Magnum binding, and I'm skiing Alfa Skarvet boots. The NNNBC is probably the most commonly used binding for off trail XC skiing, and they make boots that are targeted towards casual off trail skiing as well as stiffer boots designed for more difficult terrain.
That is a good question. The 88's are very different from the 98's in how they feel. The 98's have softer camber and greater sidecut. This makes them easier to turn in soft snow. The 88's are faster on the flats. They have stiffer camber and more spring in the kick. The 88's in this video are my wife's skis, I don't have a set in my quiver. When Julie and I ski together on kick and glide tours, she picks her 88's and I pick my 78's. We both have dedicated track skis, so we only use these off trail. Julie likes the stability of the 88's but they are the heaviest skis in her quiver and if she is familiar with the terrain and snow conditions, she prefers to pick a lighter, narrower ski.
Ive been xcbc skiing for 5 years now. Ive been on asnes nato skis with 75mm boots and bindings. I really want to upgrade to a pair of these skis. Im thinking the 199. I am also thinking about trying the nnn bc boots and bindings because its easier to find. Does anyone with more experience have any opinions or advice to give? I would appreciate it greatly.
I have not skied the Asnes Combat Nato skis, but from what I have read, they are great skis. www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=1329 The NATO skis are 84-62-72, double cambered. The Excursions are 88-68-78, double cambered. I'm betting that the two skis would offer similar skiing characteristics, the main difference would be Fischer's traction pattern with both its advantages and disadvantages, depending on the snow conditions and skier's preference. The Excursions are a bit wider. I don't know how much they differ in weight. If your boots and or skis are worn out, then I think it is great that you are looking at alternatives. This would be a great question to post over on telemarktalk.com and see if anyone has both sets of skis in their collection.
@@tomm9850 thanks tom! I gave my skis to a friend when i moved. My boots were shot. I was upset that my alpina Alaska only lasted 3 seasons. I skied them past the point of failure just to keep getting out. I watched your vid on the different bindings and i feel my comfort switching over to nnn bc now
@@tomm9850 asnes nato where great for me. Good tracking, decent float, okay at down hill. Probably better downhill for someone with alot of experience, It was my first foray into skiing. I like rolling hills and climbing the most but need something that can handle the downs:) the NATO's where great in every aspect for me.
OK, now I have a better understanding. Since you are looking for a whole new setup, you might want to consider the new Xplore binding and boot system. It is a more expensive option than NNNBC, but I think it has many advantages. Julie has been skiing the Excursion 88 with NNNBC for 3 seasons and is very happy with the setup for off trail skiing. I think it is a great general purpose off trail ski and she really likes the traction pattern and the easy skin option. She uses them mostly for skiing snowmobile trails and snow covered forest service roads. She has narrower and lighter skis for track skiing, but loves the extra stability that the Excursion offers when off trail.
@@tomm9850 i watched all your vids on the xplore and read the forums after your recommendation. Wow they are expensive. I found a package deal on a website for skis, boots, bindings and poles for the excursion 88 with fischer bcx gt boots in nnn bc. Thats why i was asking specifically about that set up. Thank you for the information!
The skis and boots in this video are cross country skis. They do turn, but not in the same manner as a ski / boot / binding designed for downhill skiing, where turning is the primary design criteria.
This is outstanding! I am just getting into backcountry/downhill cross country skiing, and have learned so much from your channel. I don't yet have the confidence on the downhill portions Colorado has to offer, and have found myself taking the skis off to walk some steep stuff that's beyond my skill level. I've picked up a bunch of great tips here that I can't wait to put to use. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!
Thanks for the positive feedback. From what I've read, Colorado is having an amazing snow season this year, so its a good excuse to get out and enjoy XC skiing in the backcountry.
Thank you for all of the tips and words of encouragement Tom.
I'm glad you are enjoying the channel and thanks for being a subscriber.
Wow you’re in incredible condition for 101. Congrats 🎉
Thanks Tom! I wish I found your content last winter when I first started dabbling in xcd. Can't wait to get out there again this winter!
I'm glad you have found the channel useful. Thanks for tuning in and I hope we have a great snow season. :)
Awesome video Tom. I've been getting into off track skiing this past year and I will totally be practicing your pointers the next time I'm out.
Happy trails
The man is earning his turns!
Great refresher for a new season, now just waiting on another foot of snow before hitting the hills instead of the flats.
You and me both.
Thanks Tom for presenting! I am planning to buy the same skis and learn telemark techniques. I am experiences alpine skier but all the backcountry ski adventures will be new to me. Your video helped a lot! Thanks!
Nordic off trail skiing is a lot of fun, but the equipment choices can be daunting, and there is a bit of a learning curve for free heel skiing, but I'm sure you will quickly figure it all out. It will be a great journey. If you haven't already watched it, check out my video from a few years ago where I describe the different skis / boots that I use for the wide variety of skiing in my area th-cam.com/video/lTGvQzTC6hI/w-d-xo.html
What a great introduction. Thank you for your dedicatedness to this. Just great.
Thanks. Hope you are having a great ski season.
Thanks for making this video! I want to go on a trail (been to a Nordic center) but I needed to understand how to turn in the wild. Tytytytyty
Fantastic. Have fun and be careful.
Be sure to check out Jared's video on step turns. Most XC skiers use the step turn more than the telemark turn, especially as they transition from skiing on groomed terrain to the backcountry. th-cam.com/video/nP6SwsRWo8Y/w-d-xo.html
Looks like a great day for skiing!
Nice! Interesting perspectives. I learned to telemark on a set-up similar to that. It was slow going. (Of course, I started at age 58, am not much of a downhill skier, and not a natural athlete.) Eventually I got some wider skis and plastic boots. (Fisher S-bound 112 and Garmont Excursions) Progressed with the tele faster after that. But for touring that is a heavy and clumsy outfit-although not as bad as I anticipated. Now, if I were going to an area that I knew would not have any challenging downhills, I might go back to the touring outfit, and I could do a bit of turning on that. Of course the old-school guys could ski anything on skinny skis with leather boots, and I wish I could do that.
I'll echo your advice to learners, to practice a lot on easy slopes, before trying harder stuff. Weight on the back ski is the truth, man.
i know I am kind of randomly asking but do anybody know a good website to watch newly released tv shows online?
@Terrell Ronin flixportal xD
@Marshall Cruz Thank you, signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there :D I really appreciate it !!
@Terrell Ronin no problem :)
Tom, thanks for covering this stuff! Call it "survival skiing"? Few if any people using XCD gear are going to manage doing windshield-wiper parallel turns going down through the trees in deep powder. That's a fantasy. But low-angle traverses between kick-turns, step-turns up into the hill, skiing up into the side-slopes on woods roads and troughed-out trails, and side-stepping down the too-steep sections--it's all stuff that saves your bacon in off-track XCD skiing. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Well said. The advantage of an XC setup over downhill specific setups is the ease of motion through the woods, on the flats and in moderate rolling terrain. The most important thing about downhill skiing on XC skis is to get down safely. Style points don't count, at least in my mind.
I just picked up a pair of S-Bound 112s last week and like a lunatic I mounted BD 01 cable bindings and am currently running them with T2eco (plastic) boots. I have a lot to learn as far as turning them, but they kick and glide great and they climb amazingly well. Gonna get a pair of 75mm leather boots for long xc tours, and a set of Nordic step 75mm adaptors for my mountaineering boots to use them as approach skis for ice climbing and big peaks. Fun fun fun
Sounds like a great combo. I love my T2's. It sounds like you are having lots of fun. Thanks for tuning in and have a safe ski season.
great video! I am trying to get myself a set up like this to do a little backcountry mellow hills
You are in for a lot of fun. Thanks for the feedback and for tuning in.
Excellent advice here, bringing back memories of when I started learning how to do the telemark turn. I was fortunate enough to take a lesson with Oliver at Smugglers Notch in VT as a first step and having a lesson was really helpful even though I was 6/10 alpine skier at that time. Other than that it's just been that slow progress as you describe here and now some 12 years later I've become a much better skier even though I don't get out that much. I'd like to add a bit of experience using Madshus Epoch skis which is I think are little wider than these Fischers but also have a pretty decent camber. Mine are 185cm with nnn-bc and are pretty great for rolling terrain kick and glide. When I've taken them to a resort I found the step-telemark became the go-to technique when the going got steeper. Alas, the Fischer boots I have are not very good and started pinching toes and so I haven't used them in a few seasons. I'm really looking forward to getting some good leather boots and using these again!
Jason, what do you mean by step-telemark?
@@Doug762a It's a old-fashioned technique from the days of long straight skis and conditions/ability don't allow for making smooth linked turns. If in a traversing pattern, you initiate a turn by rising up and then pointing that uphill ski to where you want to go and briefly transferring weight there. In that brief moment of unweighting of the downhill ski you snap it around and settle in on the new trajectory. There's a drill too for descending narrower spaces: keep going back and forth from parallel to parallel with a wedge in the middle. Do this action fast and you can descend most anything in control (probably tired at the bottom).
This is a wonderful video and so much fun to watch with the scenes from different perspectives. Good advice too for skiing back-country conditions where the snow quality changes and you don't know exactly what is underneath you. I will point out at 11:04 we see Tom "boinking" his poles along the turn as he descends. I have heard this called "lobstering". It is good to avoid this if you can because it prevents you from having a body position facing down the hill and you tend to point your shoulder down the hill rather than having your navel point down the hill when you do it. In fact, we can see Tom doing just that as he turns sideways with his turns. You should try to keep your navel pointed down the hill and rotate your legs and hips at your waist instead of your torso following the turn. Also you can run into your poles with your skis and trip on them when lobstering or just fall over your poles and bend/break them. Try to have one pole plant per turn.
Yes, my pole plants are pretty sloppy in this video. In my defense, this was the first time I had ever donned these skis. They were way too short for me, and I just didn't feel all that balanced on them. Appreciate the feedback and the pointers.
@@tomm9850 I wouldn't call you "sloppy", Tom. I just thought it was a good opportunity to give some pointers. I think the whole video is excellent and you clearly put a lot of work into it. The video is fun and informative and worthwhile. I enjoyed watching it more than once. You show what it is really like skiing solo on ungroomed terrain. It isn't like a Warren Miller film. I love it.
@@flutingaround There are more similarities with Telemark skiing and alpine skiing than differences. Body position, weighting/lifting during turn pole-plant are pretty much the same.
@@flutingaround Good alpine/downhill skiers pick up Telemark skiing pretty quick. I think you'll do well.
Really good advice and great attitude, do what you can but just keep doing it and you will get to where you want to be. Thanks for taking the time. All of my XC is off trail and not a lot of steep slopes. I am not the greatest skier and when I have come to some down hills that have me worried, I just take my time and get down to the bottom. Thanks for posting this, one of the best I have seen.
Appreciate the feedback. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you are having a great winter.
Great video, gives me confidence as I am about to start my cross country ski adventure😁👍🏻
Fantastic. Enjoy the journey.
Love your videos man 👍🏻 greetings from
Germany 🇩🇪
Thanks. I hope you have a great winter
Watching this after my first outing on my xc skis, having struggled to really do anything other than move in a straight line or get into a snow plow on some small hills.
6:58 "their other snow conditions where it's a real crusty, breakable crust or maybe really heavy, wet dense snow"
Well that might explain it. Had a few days of alternating rain & snow before some really wet stuff coming in while I was up there. It just seemed excessivly difficult for me to move the skis in anyway other than forward lol.
XC skiing in bad snow conditions can be very frustrating to say the least. Thanks for tuning in and I have my finger's crossed that you will have some great cold and soft snow for your next outing.
Great video Tom, looking good out there
Thanks, hope you are having a great winter.
@@tomm9850 More snow would be great, but we take what we can get!
Excellent video. I am a 25 year alpine skier and new to XC. Absolutely loved your advice and the great quality of the video.
You are in for a great adventure. Thanks for tuning in and have a great winter.
Great video. Greatly informative. Last time I went out I had a hard time. this helped to recalibrate me. I just need more practice and have fun!! Thanks!
I'm sure you master it with enough time and practice. Embrace the times when it works and don't get discouraged the times is doesn't. There are just some snow conditions that are very difficult and we all have to resort to "survival" tactics. :)
@@tomm9850 Thanks! I am using Marquette backcountry skis, I got years ago. I just switched from 3 pin to Telelbindings to give me a little better heal retention. I like to trapes up small hills and meander my way down.
@@tomm9850 When I went out yesterday, I realized that my big challenge was that im used to alpine, where I can lean into my boots to get my tips up or to lead my edges. Do you have any recommendations for moving out of that mindset
With telemark, it is all about balance on the balls of the foot, especially when using light gear. As you step up into plastic boots, active bindings, and downhill skis, the fundamentals stay the same, but it becomes much easier to control the skis. I've been a freeheeler all my life, so I've never had to go through the transition process. I don't know if you live in an area where you could take some lessons, but that might help, especially if the instructor does both alpine and telemark. If not, then my best recommendation is to start on gentle terrain with good soft snow and practice, practice, practice simple turns left and right turns. It will eventually click and then it won't seem so difficult.
Here are a few links that might help
www.wikihow.com/Do-Better-Telemark-Ski-Turns
bishopshreds.com/blogs/big-burly-bloggery/82695620-tips-for-beginners-and-folks-with-left-turns-that-suck
Here is the hop technique. This is very difficult to master on light touring gear, but it will give you an idea of what is possible with downhill skis, plastic boots, and an active binding system.
th-cam.com/video/0GSTmSPgoRg/w-d-xo.html
@@tomm9850 Thanks. Everything is pretty hard packed and windbblown at the moment. Ill plan to go out again when we get some more cover.
Question on these skis im using. The Marquettes have pre-drilled holes for the bindings putting the pin line ~6" forward of the line of balance... Would you tink this makes an appreciable difference, or just keep practicing....? Thanks! :)
Excellent 101! Thanks!
I appreciate the feedback. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you have a great winter.
Hey Tom ! I like to use the Madshus panorama and anumm skis in 68 and 78 size
Thanks for tuning in and I hope we have a great snow season.
Great information. I think I need a pair of these skis.
The Excursion 88's are an interesting ski. I think they are a good choice for skiing off trail on forest service roads and rolling terrain.
Hey Tom great video and great advice, I just got some 88's and haven't mounted them yet. I was thinking I would put some magnums on them but was wondering if you thought they would be better with a 3 pin? I am also planning a solo trip to Wyoming at the end of February to try and put them to use. Would you have any videos on trail recommendations or any resources you would care to share on places? Also hoping the Alfa's are working out for you! thanks Shaun
Check out my video where I compare the NNNBC vs the NN 3 pin. th-cam.com/video/HQU-9DO3XKk/w-d-xo.html Both systems work very well, and each has its merits, and I ski both. I have the NNNBC on my Traverse 78's and the Voile 3 pin on my S-Bound 98's. The 88's could go either way, but I was very satisfied skiing my wifes's 88's with my Alfa Skarvet NNNBC boots. If you plan to use the 88's for turns, be sure to pick a boot with ample ankle support. Most of the NNNBC boots sold in the USA are optimized for the kick and glide end of the spectrum. Most of the NN 3 pin boots on the other hand are optimized for turn control. There are exceptions to the rule however, so I think you need to pick the boot that is suitable for your use, and that will determine the binding. The Alfa Skarvets have been working out well for me. I didn't mention it in the video, but I was skiing the Alfas with the 88's for this review. I will post an updated Skarvet review next week. You didn't say what part of Wyoming you were visiting, but if you are heading toward Jackson, check out this link for great information on trails in the area jhnordic.com/ Click on the trails option, then use the filter option to see the trails that match your preferences. Let me know more about the type of skiing you are planning to do and the area you will be in, and I'll see if I can come up with some suggestions for you.
@@tomm9850 Thanks for the great reply, I found a great deal on some Alfa Montana's so I think I will go with a Magnum and try and get the best turns I can out of them. I will be heading down from Montana first stopping on the North Road then down so I think I may do a loop into Wyoming down trough Lovell, stopping at Antelope Butte, then down to Wind River, over to Jackson, possibly skiing into yellowstone for a day ( I remember your video from the begging of the season). Then back up through Idaho to Montana again, stopping at West Yellowstone and Big Sky on the way back. Any trails or suggestions would be appreciated as the snow will determine a lot of where I go. I will try and ski anywhere from a skinny for the groomed track to the 88's for a backcountry adventure. I don't think I will bring the tele's for this trip. That website is amazing but a bit overwhelming.......so many choices!!!
Super helpful! thanks so much
Glad it was helpful, and thanks for tuning in.
Great video, as usual I learned something :) I just picked up a pair of these ( with otx boots ) and cannot believe how well they handled. Pallalel zooming down narrow trails. They stopped like a pair of ice skates. Maybe its the boots, but it felt like I could really dig in with my heels.
Also thumbs up on your improving camera work and editing 👍 👌
Appreciate the feedback and glad that you are enjoying the 88's. As they say, the best pair of skis are the ones you are on. :) Hope you have a great winter.
thanks for the downhill skiing lesson . It appears your engaging the muscles in your shoulders through the pole , especially on the turns ?
Pole placement and timing for the telemark turn is often awkward, especially in the backcountry. I tend to use my pole plants for balance as well as timing and for forward locomotion. I should probably do a video showing the "textbook" or proper way of using the poles in the telemark turn, but my bad pole habits work well for me and it is just the way I ski.
Tom, the content of this work keeps improving (wish my ski skills could keep up). Can you speak to the use of ski poles? When I'm working a turn I sometimes feel that the poles are just in the way. What should I being doing with these poles? Also how does my body weight shift as I go from a right tele turn to a left turn? Is that weight out over the tips or more centered over the camber?
When I look at this video, my pole plants are anything but graceful. The textbook technique is to keep the arms out in front and give a slight tap into the snow as you begin to come up from the knee bend and transition into the next turn. I can see myself tapping the snow for balance in between the turns and the general advice is to use the poles for timing and not for balance. My pole use is directly tied to my XC background, and I slip back into that mode by muscle memory if I'm not thinking about proper form. The mantra from Free-Heel Skiing by Paul Parker is "tap, turn, tap, turn" . This video should probably be used as an example of the incorrect way to use poles. I obviously was having a bit of a problem finding my balance since it was the first time skiing my wife's too short for me, high camber skis. My pole plants are easier on my tele setup with wider skis, plastic boots, and active bindings. Check out this youtube video for proper pole plants th-cam.com/video/6BBn3ACfarw/w-d-xo.html
The weight shift is harder to describe and varies quite a bit depending on the angle of the slope and the snow conditions. For me, my weight bias moves to the front ski as the slope angle increases. The weight shift changes from my left ski to my right ski during the transition. It is important to keep some weight on the trailing ski to keep it under control and to assist in the turn.
Thank you!
Thanks for tuning in Susanne. I hope you are having a great ski season.
this is very helpful video!
Hi Tom. I have about 25+ years working in ski shops and ski resorts. One thing I see over and over again is mis-mounted skis. Either someone has mounted the skis themselves or a shop has done a poor job. When this happens, most of the time bindings are mounted too far back and this makes skis very difficult to turn. It doesn't matter the width of the ski, the type of binding(NNNBC or 3pin) or the type of boot(leather or plastic). 1 or 2 cm back can absolutely ruin an otherwise perfectly good turning ski. I would ask "ianjt" to investigate the mounting position of the binding on the ski. Take it to a local shop with EXPERIENCE with XC/XCD gear and have them take a look. Anyway, just my humble opinion. Thanks.
Good advice. I wish that Fischer would provide information on their website regarding the manufacturer's recommended mounting position for each of their ski lines. It would be very useful information when you pick up a used pair of Fischer skis as you never know who mounted the bindings. I've been mounting my Fischer skis with the 3 pin line on the balance point of the ski. On my Voile skis, I've used Voile's recommended mounting position, which is a bit forward of the balance point.
thank you! super encouraging!
Thanks for tuning in and I hope you are having a great winter.
@@tomm9850 Today I did 5 laps of effortless telemark turns in the powder. Been trying to learn this properly since I was 7. My lifelong dream come true, and huge freedom now - thanks to you and this very video. I did exactly what you said. Salomon Adv-89 with Alpina Alaska nnn-bc. Eternal gratitude.
@@susannewilliams Fantastic. It is such a great feeling when it starts to click and so frustrating when it doesn't. I hope you have a great winter. :)
Great video! Really cleared up some misconceptions I had. Just discovered your channel. I'm just getting into cross country skiing now that I'm moving to the Midwest.
I'm sure you will enjoy cross country skiing as much as I do. Thanks for tuning in, and I hope next year brings a great ski season in the Midwest.
Looks fun! Thanks.
Thanks for tuning in.
1:43 "You really shouldn't ski anything wider than 70 mm on a groomed trail". Now that is an interesting comment that I have never heard before, but it does make sense. I am guessing it is because grooming machined trails are narrower than 70 mm. I have noticed that my 75 mm binding and my wide boots "scratch" the sides of the groomed trail grooves while skiing. It is a lot of work widening out the trail with the sides of my boots, but I don't know any way around it besides maybe binding my feet and wearing a skinnier boot.
Yes, 70 mm is the width of most groomed tracks.
I would like to see a video on getting down a slope that's way too steep for XC gear. In case you didn't have much of a choice. How to get down slowly and safely.
Good idea for a future topic. The technique described at 12:40, to traverse across the hill if there is enough room, works well if the terrain is open and the snow is soft. This technique won't work on a narrow, steep, and icy trail. Under those conditions, if a snow plow is not possible or the slope cannot be side stepped, then the best idea might be to remove the skis and walk down the slope.
Hi Tom, awesome teaching video! I've been XC skiing for a few years now and it's hard to find info on a set of adventure skiis. I live in western Washington but plan on going further east to better snow when I can. Do you think the 88s are wide enough for just about any back country? Should I go thinner?
I don't plan on taking them down Mt. Baker by any means haha but kinda like what you are skiing in this video
Anything you can share would be much appreciated!
- Olav
In this video I'm skiing the Voile Objective BC skis with the Voile 3 pin traverse binding and Alfa Greenland leather boots. The Objectives are a lightweight downhill ski and are great, but they are by no means an XC ski. My ski partner on this day was skiing the Asnes Ingstad with an NNNBC binding and Alfa Guard Advance boots. As you can see, the Ingstads were working great. The Ingstad is an XC ski with similar dimensions to the Excursion 88. Julie skis the Excursion 88's in the backcountry and I think they are a good off trail XC ski. The conditions were ideal on this day and the 88's would have been OK, but when I'm "touring for turns" I prefer the Sbound 98's over the 88's and I'll ski the Objectives if the day's tour does not have long sections of flat kick and glide. For kick and glide tours, I ski the Fischer Traverse 78's. The 88's are half way in between the 78's and the 98's, so if I could only have one off trail XC ski, the 88's would be a good choice. When it comes to off trail touring, the boot is almost more important than the ski. Be sure to get a good fitting boot, and if "touring for turns" are your thing, get one with ample ankle and lateral support to help you control your skis.
@@tomm9850 wow that's awesome! I'll definitely look at a new pair of boots and maybe 2 more sets of skiis eventually. Thanks again for the info!
Great video! Thank you. I'm skiing Montana and Yellowstone coming from Minnesota (no hills). Are snowplow stops not recommended in backcountry conditions?
Snowplow stops and turns can be useful in the backcountry when conditions allow, but are difficult to do when the snow is deep and the hills are steep. Snowplows work best on packed or compacted snow when the skis can stay on top and the snow is firm enough for the ski's edge to bite. This works well on groomed trails and some snowmobile trails, if they are wide and not too rutted up. You can also use the snowplow in deep or heavy snow, but it requires much more force and can sometimes be difficult with soft boots. Have a great time skiing Yellowstone. It is a magical place in the winter.
@@tomm9850 The ski tips can become stuck in the deep ungroomed snow when snow ploughing to stop or cook off speed and then you will crash , over the handle bars style, and eat snow and hurt your knees. :-0.That is where Telemark turning comes into its own. Snow ploughing and Stem Christie turns work OK on rolling mellow descents but do not offer control and power steering the way Telemark techniques do on steeper terrain.
Awesome video! Are those trekking poles that you're using?
My backcountry ski poles are the K2 lockjaw carbon. Mine are about 5 years old. They work well. Here is a link to their newest version
k2snow.com/en-us/p/lockjaw-carbon-plus-pole
thanks for the video i am working on my touring skills and this helps. question, what are the poles you are using? look to have a bigger basket and are adjustable.
The poles in this video are K2 lockjaw carbon. Mine are about 6 years old and have served me well, but it is time I replace them. The straps are badly frayed and the basket have a couple of broken webs. I think they have held up well considering the amount of use. I have a set of Dynafit Speed Vario 2.0 Ski Poles that I will put in service this season. I use adjustable poles in the backcountry because I prefer to use a short pole, around 125 cm when skiing downhill and a longer pole, around 135 cm when skiing in the flats. It only takes a second or two to adjust the length. The baskets are circular and about 4 inchs (100 mm) in diameter. These are commonly called "powder baskets". Adjustable backcountry poles can be used for recreational skiing on groomed trails, but fixed length poles with a smaller / tapered basket are a better choice, because the snow is usually firm and packed at a nordic center.
@@tomm9850 i can see how being able to adjust wthrowing
What bindings/boots are you using? I'm learning on NNN BC. I've been told NNN BC aren 't stiff enough to run effectively, but I've also heard that they are.
The Excursion 88's I'm skiing in this video have the NNNBC Magnum binding, and I'm skiing Alfa Skarvet boots. The NNNBC is probably the most commonly used binding for off trail XC skiing, and they make boots that are targeted towards casual off trail skiing as well as stiffer boots designed for more difficult terrain.
Hi Tom! How do you reckon these compare to the 98's? Considerable difference? Regards
That is a good question. The 88's are very different from the 98's in how they feel. The 98's have softer camber and greater sidecut. This makes them easier to turn in soft snow. The 88's are faster on the flats. They have stiffer camber and more spring in the kick. The 88's in this video are my wife's skis, I don't have a set in my quiver. When Julie and I ski together on kick and glide tours, she picks her 88's and I pick my 78's. We both have dedicated track skis, so we only use these off trail. Julie likes the stability of the 88's but they are the heaviest skis in her quiver and if she is familiar with the terrain and snow conditions, she prefers to pick a lighter, narrower ski.
Thanks a lot Tom, appreciate it! Got me the 88s, they turned just fine. And I'm not at all the expert skier you are ;)
@@tigeryeo6224 Fantastic. I hope you are having a great ski season.
Ive been xcbc skiing for 5 years now. Ive been on asnes nato skis with 75mm boots and bindings. I really want to upgrade to a pair of these skis. Im thinking the 199. I am also thinking about trying the nnn bc boots and bindings because its easier to find.
Does anyone with more experience have any opinions or advice to give? I would appreciate it greatly.
I have not skied the Asnes Combat Nato skis, but from what I have read, they are great skis. www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=1329 The NATO skis are 84-62-72, double cambered. The Excursions are 88-68-78, double cambered. I'm betting that the two skis would offer similar skiing characteristics, the main difference would be Fischer's traction pattern with both its advantages and disadvantages, depending on the snow conditions and skier's preference. The Excursions are a bit wider. I don't know how much they differ in weight. If your boots and or skis are worn out, then I think it is great that you are looking at alternatives. This would be a great question to post over on telemarktalk.com and see if anyone has both sets of skis in their collection.
@@tomm9850 thanks tom!
I gave my skis to a friend when i moved. My boots were shot. I was upset that my alpina Alaska only lasted 3 seasons. I skied them past the point of failure just to keep getting out.
I watched your vid on the different bindings and i feel my comfort switching over to nnn bc now
@@tomm9850 asnes nato where great for me. Good tracking, decent float, okay at down hill. Probably better downhill for someone with alot of experience, It was my first foray into skiing. I like rolling hills and climbing the most but need something that can handle the downs:) the NATO's where great in every aspect for me.
OK, now I have a better understanding. Since you are looking for a whole new setup, you might want to consider the new Xplore binding and boot system. It is a more expensive option than NNNBC, but I think it has many advantages. Julie has been skiing the Excursion 88 with NNNBC for 3 seasons and is very happy with the setup for off trail skiing. I think it is a great general purpose off trail ski and she really likes the traction pattern and the easy skin option. She uses them mostly for skiing snowmobile trails and snow covered forest service roads. She has narrower and lighter skis for track skiing, but loves the extra stability that the Excursion offers when off trail.
@@tomm9850 i watched all your vids on the xplore and read the forums after your recommendation. Wow they are expensive.
I found a package deal on a website for skis, boots, bindings and poles for the excursion 88 with fischer bcx gt boots in nnn bc. Thats why i was asking specifically about that set up.
Thank you for the information!
Is it not possible to do curves with BC shoes and skis ? 😐 im disappointed
The skis and boots in this video are cross country skis. They do turn, but not in the same manner as a ski / boot / binding designed for downhill skiing, where turning is the primary design criteria.
Where is the turns????!!!!
Where is Waldo? :)
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