Matt, I love that you made this video, not knowing what you were doing, then called it a how-to. I mean, you're right. It is a how-to, but you apparently didn't know that at the time of shooting. 😂
If you use Titebond it will seep through the veneer when you suck the air out of the bag because it has water in it. You do need to use specifically veneer glue, ask me how I figured that one out haha!
I do a good bit of veneer work.. My $0.02: If you lay out your rough cut on the top you can reinforce the cut line with venneer tape then cut it with sharp scissors. I use upholsterer's snips. The tape will scrape off easily after the piece come out of the press by first dampening it with a sponge. Also, a couple additional veneer suppliers are "Veneer Supplies" and "Certainly Wood". Cheers!
Good quality veneer is usually 1/22". Modern commercial veneer is closer to 1/40th of an inch. If you tape the cut line, prior to cutting, it will be less prone to cracking. Sharp scissors will work well also. Unibond is a thicker glue, color matches better, doesn't bleed through the veneers and if it does, won't negatively effect the finish, like tightbond yellow will.
That looks great, They make tools for cutting veneer that you can purchase at Woodcraft, I held out for a long time but when I finally broke down and bought them they really did make cutting the veneer without cracking much better. I don't know why more people don't use veneer tops it's not like anyone will ever know the difference and it's waaaaaay cheeper.
your guys videos are so detailed you may even be revealing lots of bigger company secrets regarding sealers "simtec" and even how veener tops are installed which are very common and make companies save money, that is why you guys will be having so many more customers followers and subscribers. i did. I wish i could speak to you personally or on the phone so you can give a brother some tips and tricks. i do not build since i dont have the proper equipment but i do custom paint jobs for people but im still having trouble on how to price my work. anywho thank you for what you do you help us who are just starting to learn so much more i hope i can speak to you soon thanks!
Thanks for watching Adrian. I'm not sure if this is secret stuff of not. Lots of it is used by the bigger guitar companies but also used by woodworkers all over. Send me an email and we can schedule a time to talk
Oh my gosh! I have chip bag sealers just like what the vacuum seal uses. I think they're called Banana Clips. 😋 They work exactly the same, but way smaller for saving your potato or tortilla chips.
Texas Toast Guitars cool...I'll have to rember that. Maybe someday down the road it would be nice to get a bag and vacuum pump. I love the veneer. Turns plain wood into gorgeous wood! For a fraction of the cost!👍😎🎸🎶
Great videos, you have such in-depth content. It’s awesome to see how things start and come together! Watched the other video with all the clamped veneer. Hard to tell which is the better route bc this appears remarkably straight forward. I can appreciate the idea of going with what works, can waste a lot of time going through other methods which while they could be better, they can always be worse.
Thanks Charlie, I see people on forums talk about me and they totally don't get it, they don't understand what I'm about... I think they are 13 year old kids or just really bitter, what a way to live. I love what I do and I'm going to keep on doing things my way
You could take a double-sided sticky tape, bound the veneer to the body, and use a special knife to cut the veneer. As a bonus you could precisely select a picture on top while binding
Hey if you guys want to get into vacuum sealing tops on your guitars but don't have the shmeckles for a full on rig like Matt's check out a skateboard supply company called Roar Rocket, they sell vacuum bags that use a hand pump for really cheep and they actually work great. You will get quite a few tops done before you need to upgrade to the big daddy but if your are serious about doing a lot of veneering then you should fork over the cash for the good setup.
That is a pretty good looking top,,, for sure. If thoughts count since you are a work in progress maybe a piece of tape on the corner ends ,,,just so you don’t have to wiggle it around once inside of bag!. Give any thoughts on a reverse Firebird neck. Whatever you choose,,,it looks like it was born to rock! Love your vids!
Hey Matt I use titebond cold press for veneers, rather than the original titebond. it works very well, It doesn't bleed through and prevent your dye from getting in the grain. Interestingly enough the titebond veneer glue is the same coffee colour as the one your using.. But I used a 20kg bag of sand in a pillow case to press the veneer! Sounds crude? It is, yet it worked a treat. The vac bag works well, I asked myself this question before I started?? How does the glue dry when sealed airtight? now watching your process I'm thinking that's what the breather mesh is for, to create a tiny airspace for drying, great idea!! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge 👍
A sand bag is a great idea. I spent 20+ years in the aquarium trade and I always used crushed coral to glue faux stand covers to hide plywood until they glued stuff down, sand would have worked much better, play sand is pennies on the pound vs crushed coral, but it never dawned on me. To me, it was what I had on hand, but it makes so much more sense. I also would have around 300 pounds of crushed coral covered in wood glue now. I can't even use it in aquariums either.
"How does the glue dry when sealed airtight?" Don't most glues dry by evaporating the solvent, rather than reacting with air? I would kinda expect most glues to dry more easily in a vacuum, since it'd make it easier for the solvent to evaporate. Of course there are tons of different glue types, some react to pressure, some to heat, some just evaporate, some rely on chemical processes when in contact with materials... Who knows the specifics of these glues! (Well I guess the manufacturers do...) "now watching your process I'm thinking that's what the breather mesh is for, to create a tiny airspace for drying, great idea!!" To me it seems the idea of the breather mesh is to make sure the point where the nozzle is doesn't just seal against the body, and only create a local vacuum, instead making sure that the air gets removed from the whole area. But I might be mistaken.
Sandbag: 20 lbs over 200 square inches = .1 lbs per square inch (far more than enough to hold down any veneer) Vacuum: up to 14.5 lbs per square inch (far more than any tornado) Whatever works, of course, but yeh, physics.
I'm getting ready to do my own strat and your video was just what I needed to get the body looking good. I liked how you did the video without being some political correctness on how to do this task. Just good ole boy keeping things simple.
Thanks for this video! I just picked up some veneer, not knowing how to apply it nd there you were! I've already rounded over my edges...I'm so new to this it's scary, lol! Don't think I can afford the vacuum bag, but will check it out. Great tips for the rips in veneer as I have a couple in mine. Hey, thanks again! Pam
I attempted this with a Ibanez body that was already cut and shaped and I ended up going a different direction because it was too hard to cut the veneer to shape without cracking and splitting. Next time I'll start with a blank like that and make it a lot easier on myself.
Nice job! Just a small suggestion though, before I would put the guitar into the vacuum bag I would put a couple of strips of tape to keep the veneer from possibly slipping. Nice though.
Very cool my friend. I have a unique situation of a "foto-flame" top on a vintage Fender strat that about a decade ago was in the trunk of my car after a gig, it was a below freezing night. Got home and when opened the case there were some cracks in the veneer top. Now, most recently it's starting to crack further and separate. Any suggestions on how to preserve the original top? Or is it time to forget about that, strip it and start over. I appreciate your time, feedback, & thoughts. Thanks again for doing what you do here!
Matt, get yourself some 1/4" lexan/ plexiglas and make some clear templates of the bodies you make. This way you can use the clear template to actually see the veneer and how it will look on the body.
WMIC does a cost-saving trick on the PRS SE models where they have a thin piece of highly figured veneer over a thick piece of plain Maple. But if you're doing actual binding instead of their "reveal binding" I guess it doesn't matter.
Yep, that is a pretty clever trick since they are going for some sonic properties of the maple, want the wood to look like a PRS and keep cost down. I think that veneer is a cool thing but it is a lot like cheating
As always, I enjoyed your video! Was wondering about what to do with left over veneer scraps. Fret dots? Maybe a fabric top with a veneer Fender Mustang racing stripe over the arm contour? Just brainstorming.......
Jeez. 848 likes!? Nice job, Matt! They all like that "HOT suck action" bow chicka bow wow! 🤣🎸 Was just looking at your Gallery of Guitars at your website. You guys really makes some incredible guitars, Matt. You guys are fine craftsmen of your trade and it shows in every guitar you guys make. 😎👍🎸
I can see that this wood be fine for veneers. Have you ever tried it on a thicker drop top style with wood, say approx. 7 mm thick, which is a common size over here in Europe. So about 1/4" over there? Any thoughts as to how this might work? Guess you might need to do a pit of pre-bending on the top for a forearm shape cut out, or some slight nothing on the face against the top to allow the bend. But i would have thought in principle this should work.
Hi Tim, I think that would work great. The nice part is you could test it first before you put any glue down. I also did a video where I used clamps for an 1'8 inch top. Give it a try and let me know
Texas Toast , this is awesome stuff....I am thinking about refinishing a guitar and I would like t do a Walnut Burl Raw Wood Veneer ...have you ever used walnut burl ....do yo think it would flatten out enough for a guitar top ? Thanks for all your vids....
Hi Esteve, thanks for watching, glad to hear you are enjoying the videos. We have worked with burls a little bit, I love that stuff. I think you could make a really slick guitar with walnut burl veneer. I am not an expert on using this stuff so you should seek out as much information as you can and even do a few test bits. I'm sure there are lots of products you can take advantage of that will make life easier. I'm excited to hear what you come up with. You got to send me some pics
That turned out Awesome! I'm getting ready to do my first veneer on an trashed PRS Santana SE for my son that I sanded all the scratched paint off of. Just curious how much extra overlap from the body of veneer you left? It looked pretty close in your vid. What would you recommend? 1/8 inch? 1/4 inch?
Great job Texas toast,, I know you mentioned this in the video ( but ) do you or has anybody else reading this know if using a contact cement like for doing formika would work ?? Something like Weldwood contact cement by Dap
Would you recommend using a vaccum press on a guitar body that already has pickup cavities on it ? Do you think it would cause a problem ? I want to refinish my Ibanez prestige RG1570 ! Thank you and great videos keep up the good work !
Yes, absolutely... as long as your tip is thick enough or strong enough to not break in the cavities. .023 veneer is probably too thin 1/8 spruce is to weak. You know what I mean?
Thanks for watching Christian, the Unibond worked very well and, as you pointed out, made a nice seam. I'm sure there are other good adhesives too. I am a believer in using the right glue for the job
I think you made a good call using more adhesive than you thought you needed, especially with those small cracks. I would tend to think that using additional glue would cause it to soak somewhat into the veneer, which would definitely help you out. I've seen far too many veneered guitars that have bubbles and de-lamination developing after only a few years. Tis the main reason why I don't buy veneered guitars. If its gonna have a figured cap on it, it better damn-well be a proper cap, not a paper-thin sheet. I've honestly never liked veneers, mostly since they are widely used on over-priced furniture and guitars that are trying to be something they're not. If I'm ever to put a top on any of my guitars, what I'm gonna end up doing is planing 1/4" - 3/8" off the top of the body and replacing it with a chunk of proper quilted maple or something similar.
Too much glue is a thing too. We did one where the adhesive got sucked through the veneer and made a huge mess. I think a lot about veneers and put them in the same category as painted graphics or even our fabric tops. They certainly don't anything sonically... and that's okay. If companies charge more money for veneer than that's not okay.
When it comes to caps, maple specifically, it's not about the sound for me, although a thicker hard-wood cap will tend to brighten up all Mahogany guitars like the LP, simply because hard woods tend to absorb less of the high-end resonance of the strings. You can disbelieve in the whole tone-wood schtick all you want, but the fact of the matter is that harder materials, regardless of type or species, will yield a brighter sounding guitar. What makes me interested in them is both a cosmetic and durability thing. Any type of maple cap will generally be a lot harder than the substrate wood, which enhances durability, and let's face it: A slab of Quilted Maple will generally have alot more depth to the grain than a veneer would, and would be easier to finish, to boot. The only thing difficult about it would be rendering the faux-binding, masked off edge look that I love so much about guitars with proper caps on them. To me, the sexiest guitars I've ever seen had the edges of the cap masked off when applying color coats.
build out the sides of your body with a steamed and molded up 1/4" piece of filler strip so its flush at top, double sided tape adhere to body, then let your veneer hang over the body 1/4" be sure not to glue that strip.. then when you vacuum your edge will not be crimped and broken down then you can shaper perfectly with router and not worry so much about placement on glue up
Is it possible to veneer the edges of the guitar and if so how would you do it? Was thinking along the lines of maple front/back, something else on the sides and then maybe a light whiter coloured edging strip around front back edges. I guess a bit prs like? Interesting channel, thanks.
Hi Russell, I'm sure it could be done but I have never attempted it. Veneer is pretty flexible but cutaways could still present you with some challenges. Good luck, thanks for watching, glad to hear you are enjoying the videos
Hi Richard, thanks for watching. You should work your way through the regular grits, you know, 120, to 220... since the veneer is real wood albeit very thin. People who work with veneers a lot will tell you to use pencil marks so you know you are not spending too much time in one spot.
I have not done a fabric top (yet :) ) - but I have done body and neck laminates with both West Systems and 3M epoxies. As long as the surface of the bag is still pretty "slick like new" most resins won't stick too much. That said - I don't leave anything in the bag any longer than the initial set for the adhesive in question. Once it's glued I pull it our for the "full cure".
Hi Matt. I know this is an old video, but how do you stop the veneer cracking as the body wood expands and contracts over the next few weeks after glueing it on? Cheers.
You have to balance a veneer most of the time. Which is bonding another veneer to the backside of the face veneer. This allows the veneer to expand and contract. It will prevent warping, and shifting of the veneer.
Hi John, It is pretty easy... if you have a binding jig, cutting, thing. They are pretty affordable or even build it yourself they are easy to make too
Ok, so, how do you do this on a carved top Les Paul? I assume that the carved aspect would make the veneer crack, so my guess would be to use steam to make it pliable, but then I feel like the glue wouldn't hold. Thoughts from anyone? Maybe steam it then vacuum it until it dries, then glue and vacuum again? There has to be a way.... more info needed. I want to do this on a les paul I'm getting. Thx
Hi MB, You can absolutely do this on a carved top Les Paul. You might be surprised and just how much you can flex this stuff without it cracking. There are products you can use to make it even more pliable… you do not have to steam it. What you will have to do is tweak the center seam, it will not be straight, it doesn't make sense but I assure you it is true. Check this guy out he is pretty good at it...th-cam.com/video/xuHFc3BNJYM/w-d-xo.html
Tite bond may suck up into the veneer and cause finishing and staining issues, unibond has "woodflower" in it which keeps the glue from sucking up to the surface. Also unibond and other veneer specific glues dry harder tha titebond so you wont get wood veneer creep ,which is bad..i only use the mesh on the face side unless you are double veneering , leave the blank closely to the veneer size ,square. Eliminates razor blading, i hate that. That way the veneer wont crush over the edges. If you have a porous spalted veneer you can coat the glue side with seal coat shellac first .veneers are fun.
The glue I used for this worked like a charm, no reason to switch. It is going to be a while before I run out. I ended up using the mesh on the top rather than wrapping it as well. I'm not sure what it really does but I bought it and by God I'm going to use it! hahaha
The mesh simply allows air to escape / not form pockets if the valve happens to "suck down" to the surface before the bag is fully evacuated. More important on flat surfaces than contours, but not a bad habit to use it. It will, over time, crush down tho. That's a lot of glue - shelf life is about a year once opened. I'd suggest dividing it into smaller bottles, and storing in the fridge. Joe at Veneer Supply is a great guy - he's got some KILLER tamo ash the perfect width for bookmatches. Pricey, but incredible figure. (well - pricey to me, but the per-top cost is less than what you paid for the stuff in this video)
Thanks for watching Don, we have several 1/4" roasted ash tops right now... you are right Joe is a cool dude. I think I mentioned that in the video? If not, I'll do another one.
Yeah - you mentioned them for sure. I LOVE roasted ash. I took a huge tree down in my yard last year - had a section sawed into 8/4 boards, should be ready to use next year. Ash borer beetles killing all the ash up here in the NE. Roasting northern ash is about he only thing other than chambering that will lighten this stuff up. But Tamo ash (Japanese I believe) is a whole nother level - check out these bookmatched sets! (IIRC about $14/set) - imgur.com/a/7l4BCSB Joe's stock must be getting low - he's jacked the prices a bit since I bought mine (but he's still got some nice stock)
www.veneersupplies.com/products/VS-Standard-Vinyl-Vacuum-Bag-2-x-2.html This is the one I got it is pretty much the cheapest thing they had, works great for electric guitar bodies
Apparently veneer glue has a lower water content than say regular tight bond,tight bond do a veneer glue also,something to do with normal glue soaks throUgh the veneer and changes the colour of the veneer,maybe making it blotchy,plus the extra water cant evaporate properly in the vac bag.
i heard it's the water content in normal glue that can mess the veneer up,i'm an electronics technician,my only trip to glue land is for tightbond for tube amp cabs,though i may need to veneer my telecaster(once i build it).
You can get a vacuum pump pretty cheap on Amazon, and I've even rigged one up from an AC compressor from an auto junkyard. You just need to put a couple tack welds on the clutch so it doesn't spin, then bolt it to a frame with an electric motor. Just make sure you get the direction of spin correct.
First let me thank Steve for allowing me to borrowing his older woman line. I'm sure she's lovely. I'll consider the vacuum bag method in the future. Sometimes lack of funds forces one to put in a little more elbow grease, though I will be supportive of your videos.
Hello! I'm attempting to build guitar of my own design, and I want to glue a maple vineer on the top. I've encountered Your video and I'm wondering - can I use a "normal", like ikea, for example, vacuum bag? Will the force of vacuum cleaner be enough to pump out the air of simple bag? Best regards! Jack
Just use wood glue, glue it on and use a roller on the veneer, rolling out from the center to get all the bubbles out. Once that's done, clamp the edges and put some weights on the center section and leave it to dry overnight. You'll be good to go.
Do NOT used water based glue with veneer. Use Veneer resin or contact cement. Water based products will cause your veneer to warp. If your veneer is cracking that is due to improper moisture levels and pressing. Use a specific mixture of water, alcohol and glycerin or just buy the veneer wetting mixture. Don't just spray it on and go. You need to lightly saturate the wood and then press it. Changing out towels in the press the 2nd hour, 5th hour. After 24 hours, your press should be complete. No cracking and your veneer will be flexible.
Do I have a vacuum rig, no, am I watching this anyway? Absolutely. Love this guy!
Thanks or watching Jeffin we love you too
Matt, I love that you made this video, not knowing what you were doing, then called it a how-to. I mean, you're right. It is a how-to, but you apparently didn't know that at the time of shooting. 😂
Thanks for calling me out
If you use Titebond it will seep through the veneer when you suck the air out of the bag because it has water in it. You do need to use specifically veneer glue, ask me how I figured that one out haha!
I do a good bit of veneer work.. My $0.02: If you lay out your rough cut on the top you can reinforce the cut line with venneer tape then cut it with sharp scissors. I use upholsterer's snips. The tape will scrape off easily after the piece come out of the press by first dampening it with a sponge. Also, a couple additional veneer suppliers are "Veneer Supplies" and "Certainly Wood". Cheers!
Thanks Scott, Veneer Supplies will not ship to Colorado, bums me out
HI Matt, thanks for the blow by blow and good job. Also I don't care what you call the which-a-ma-call it. Keep on smiling.
Thanks Terry, will do my friend
Good quality veneer is usually 1/22". Modern commercial veneer is closer to 1/40th of an inch. If you tape the cut line, prior to cutting, it will be less prone to cracking. Sharp scissors will work well also. Unibond is a thicker glue, color matches better, doesn't bleed through the veneers and if it does, won't negatively effect the finish, like tightbond yellow will.
That looks great, They make tools for cutting veneer that you can purchase at Woodcraft, I held out for a long time but when I finally broke down and bought them they really did make cutting the veneer without cracking much better. I don't know why more people don't use veneer tops it's not like anyone will ever know the difference and it's waaaaaay cheeper.
You know me any reason to by a specialty tool is good enough. Going to work on a series of videos about the myths of veneer soon
your guys videos are so detailed you may even be revealing lots of bigger company secrets regarding sealers "simtec" and even how veener tops are installed which are very common and make companies save money, that is why you guys will be having so many more customers followers and subscribers. i did. I wish i could speak to you personally or on the phone so you can give a brother some tips and tricks. i do not build since i dont have the proper equipment but i do custom paint jobs for people but im still having trouble on how to price my work. anywho thank you for what you do you help us who are just starting to learn so much more i hope i can speak to you soon thanks!
Thanks for watching Adrian. I'm not sure if this is secret stuff of not. Lots of it is used by the bigger guitar companies but also used by woodworkers all over.
Send me an email and we can schedule a time to talk
Texas Toast Guitars awesome i tried calling the shop but ya guys are closed apparently morenoadrian1229@yahoo.com please contact me thanks so much
I'm taking the rest of the day off but I'll get with you this week
Wow. You learn something new every day! Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Greetings from down under.
Glad you enjoyed it Rossco
Oh my gosh! I have chip bag sealers just like what the vacuum seal uses. I think they're called Banana Clips. 😋 They work exactly the same, but way smaller for saving your potato or tortilla chips.
Good to know!
That's so cool! The vacuum bag does a heck of a better and easier job than clamping, for sure!👍😎🎸🎶
Absolutely, you can do a thicker top with clamps and get a great result. With something as thin as veneer you need some other tools.
Texas Toast Guitars cool...I'll have to rember that. Maybe someday down the road it would be nice to get a bag and vacuum pump. I love the veneer. Turns plain wood into gorgeous wood! For a fraction of the cost!👍😎🎸🎶
It's the good stuff kids go for
Texas Toast Guitars yep!☺
Great videos, you have such in-depth content. It’s awesome to see how things start and come together! Watched the other video with all the clamped veneer. Hard to tell which is the better route bc this appears remarkably straight forward.
I can appreciate the idea of going with what works, can waste a lot of time going through other methods which while they could be better, they can always be worse.
Always enjoy your videos,I learn so much. Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to your craft. From Mesa,Az.
Thanks Charlie, I see people on forums talk about me and they totally don't get it, they don't understand what I'm about... I think they are 13 year old kids or just really bitter, what a way to live. I love what I do and I'm going to keep on doing things my way
Cool stuff. I like that it isn't book-matched.
Thanks for watching RB, it is certainly easier to do when it's one big piece
You could take a double-sided sticky tape, bound the veneer to the body, and use a special knife to cut the veneer. As a bonus you could precisely select a picture on top while binding
Hey if you guys want to get into vacuum sealing tops on your guitars but don't have the shmeckles for a full on rig like Matt's check out a skateboard supply company called Roar Rocket, they sell vacuum bags that use a hand pump for really cheep and they actually work great. You will get quite a few tops done before you need to upgrade to the big daddy but if your are serious about doing a lot of veneering then you should fork over the cash for the good setup.
That is a pretty good looking top,,, for sure. If thoughts count since you are a work in progress maybe a piece of tape on the corner ends ,,,just so you don’t have to wiggle it around once inside of bag!. Give any thoughts on a reverse Firebird neck. Whatever you choose,,,it looks like it was born to rock! Love your vids!
A little tape is a great idea Patrick, I don't think it would take much.
Thanks for watching, glad you hear you are digging the videos
Hey Matt I use titebond cold press for veneers, rather than the original titebond. it works very well, It doesn't bleed through and prevent your dye from getting in the grain. Interestingly enough the titebond veneer glue is the same coffee colour as the one your using.. But I used a 20kg bag of sand in a pillow case to press the veneer! Sounds crude? It is, yet it worked a treat.
The vac bag works well, I asked myself this question before I started?? How does the glue dry when sealed airtight? now watching your process I'm thinking that's what the breather mesh is for, to create a tiny airspace for drying, great idea!!
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge 👍
Give it a try sometime brotherman yo might dig it
A sand bag is a great idea. I spent 20+ years in the aquarium trade and I always used crushed coral to glue faux stand covers to hide plywood until they glued stuff down, sand would have worked much better, play sand is pennies on the pound vs crushed coral, but it never dawned on me. To me, it was what I had on hand, but it makes so much more sense. I also would have around 300 pounds of crushed coral covered in wood glue now. I can't even use it in aquariums either.
"How does the glue dry when sealed airtight?" Don't most glues dry by evaporating the solvent, rather than reacting with air? I would kinda expect most glues to dry more easily in a vacuum, since it'd make it easier for the solvent to evaporate. Of course there are tons of different glue types, some react to pressure, some to heat, some just evaporate, some rely on chemical processes when in contact with materials... Who knows the specifics of these glues! (Well I guess the manufacturers do...)
"now watching your process I'm thinking that's what the breather mesh is for, to create a tiny airspace for drying, great idea!!" To me it seems the idea of the breather mesh is to make sure the point where the nozzle is doesn't just seal against the body, and only create a local vacuum, instead making sure that the air gets removed from the whole area. But I might be mistaken.
Sandbag: 20 lbs over 200 square inches = .1 lbs per square inch (far more than enough to hold down any veneer)
Vacuum: up to 14.5 lbs per square inch (far more than any tornado)
Whatever works, of course, but yeh, physics.
I'm getting ready to do my own strat and your video was just what I needed to get the body looking good. I liked how you did the video without being some political correctness on how to do this task. Just good ole boy keeping things simple.
Generally speaking, we askew political correctness. Frankly, there is no need for that kind of thing on a guitar building channel.
@@TexasToastGuitars
Can't wait to watch more of your videos.
Thanks for this video! I just picked up some veneer, not knowing how to apply it nd there you were! I've already rounded over my edges...I'm so new to this it's scary, lol!
Don't think I can afford the vacuum bag, but will check it out. Great tips for the rips in veneer as I have a couple in mine. Hey, thanks again! Pam
Thanks for watching Pam. Veneer is a really neat way to make a plain guitar really pop. Good luck with your project, let me know how it goes.
Tight bond cold press glue,I use it often,it's great stuff
I almost went with that, this stuff worked well too
Yea forgot franklin has a cold press glue too.if always likes unibond as a first choice though.
tightbond EXTEND not tightbond ii extend is supposed to be very good too
Tightbond cold press is great for veneet
Hey Matt that’s another really great video
Thanks for watching Andrew, glad to hear you liked it
Thanks very much Matt, great video
Thanks for watching Tom, glad you enjoyed the video
This looks great , real interesting video, I’d love to see the finished guitar , hope you did a video on it
I think we did?
My friend Jim Fuller has this guitar
Thanks. I've been watching your videos and you keep giving lots of options. I have access to a vacuum bagging system.
The vacuum is the really hot set-up
I attempted this with a Ibanez body that was already cut and shaped and I ended up going a different direction because it was too hard to cut the veneer to shape without cracking and splitting. Next time I'll start with a blank like that and make it a lot easier on myself.
Working with new stuff is always way easier
Nice job! Just a small suggestion though, before I would put the guitar into the vacuum bag I would put a couple of strips of tape to keep the veneer from possibly slipping. Nice though.
Good advice
Yes i agree with taping it down...it will eliminate movement
Very cool my friend. I have a unique situation of a "foto-flame" top on a vintage Fender strat that about a decade ago was in the trunk of my car after a gig, it was a below freezing night. Got home and when opened the case there were some cracks in the veneer top. Now, most recently it's starting to crack further and separate. Any suggestions on how to preserve the original top? Or is it time to forget about that, strip it and start over. I appreciate your time, feedback, & thoughts. Thanks again for doing what you do here!
If it was my guitar I would not try to repair it. Of course, I am all jigged up to do re-tops
Matt, get yourself some 1/4" lexan/ plexiglas and make some clear templates of the bodies you make. This way you can use the clear template to actually see the veneer and how it will look on the body.
That is a good idea Lou, I have often thought of doing that but have never pulled the trigger
WMIC does a cost-saving trick on the PRS SE models where they have a thin piece of highly figured veneer over a thick piece of plain Maple. But if you're doing actual binding instead of their "reveal binding" I guess it doesn't matter.
Yep, that is a pretty clever trick since they are going for some sonic properties of the maple, want the wood to look like a PRS and keep cost down. I think that veneer is a cool thing but it is a lot like cheating
PVA glue is good. Apply with a small roller or brush
We use the cold press stuff from Titebond
As always, I enjoyed your video! Was wondering about what to do with left over veneer scraps. Fret dots? Maybe a fabric top with a veneer Fender Mustang racing stripe over the arm contour? Just brainstorming.......
There are probably some really smart things one could do with the left over bits... I have just been tossing them.
Great video as always !!! And I agree make it into a dual humbucker super strat :)
Oh it will be a HH strat. I haven't decided if it will be super (Floyd Rose) or not?
looks like i'll be buying this setup
It isn't too bad the smallest vacuum bag is all you need. You will have great results
@@TexasToastGuitars hey do you know a good place to get veneers
Jeez. 848 likes!? Nice job, Matt!
They all like that "HOT suck action" bow chicka bow wow! 🤣🎸
Was just looking at your Gallery of Guitars at your website. You guys really makes some incredible guitars, Matt. You guys are fine craftsmen of your trade and it shows in every guitar you guys make. 😎👍🎸
Thanks so much JC
How would you re- veneer a schecter s1 elite with abalone binding?
Thanks.
Can you do that to an acoustic?
I can see that this wood be fine for veneers. Have you ever tried it on a thicker drop top style with wood, say approx. 7 mm thick, which is a common size over here in Europe. So about 1/4" over there? Any thoughts as to how this might work? Guess you might need to do a pit of pre-bending on the top for a forearm shape cut out, or some slight nothing on the face against the top to allow the bend. But i would have thought in principle this should work.
Hi Tim,
I think that would work great. The nice part is you could test it first before you put any glue down. I also did a video where I used clamps for an 1'8 inch top.
Give it a try and let me know
Texas Toast , this is awesome stuff....I am thinking about refinishing a guitar and I would like t do a Walnut Burl Raw Wood Veneer ...have you ever used walnut burl ....do yo think it would flatten out enough for a guitar top ? Thanks for all your vids....
Hi Esteve, thanks for watching, glad to hear you are enjoying the videos. We have worked with burls a little bit, I love that stuff. I think you could make a really slick guitar with walnut burl veneer. I am not an expert on using this stuff so you should seek out as much information as you can and even do a few test bits. I'm sure there are lots of products you can take advantage of that will make life easier. I'm excited to hear what you come up with. You got to send me some pics
That turned out Awesome! I'm getting ready to do my first veneer on an trashed PRS Santana SE for my son that I sanded all the scratched paint off of. Just curious how much extra overlap from the body of veneer you left? It looked pretty close in your vid. What would you recommend? 1/8 inch? 1/4 inch?
Uhm...
as long as you have some you should be good to go.
Sorry that isn't more specific.
Thanx Man, I'll give it about a 1/4 inch and see how it goes. 👍
Great video!
Great job Texas toast,, I know you mentioned this in the video ( but ) do you or has anybody else reading this know if using a contact cement like for doing formika would work ?? Something like Weldwood contact cement by Dap
Thanks for watching los 6, it is my understanding that contact cement will NOT work for gluing wood veneer to thicker wood.
Absolutely, Veneer Supplies has all kinds of good information, FAQs and, of course, supplies. They are a one stop shop.
Would you recommend using a vaccum press on a guitar body that already has pickup cavities on it ? Do you think it would cause a problem ? I want to refinish my Ibanez prestige RG1570 ! Thank you and great videos keep up the good work !
Yes, absolutely... as long as your tip is thick enough or strong enough to not break in the cavities. .023 veneer is probably too thin 1/8 spruce is to weak. You know what I mean?
The Unibond has a pleasing colour, I would guess it makes for an invisible seam.
Thanks for watching Christian, the Unibond worked very well and, as you pointed out, made a nice seam. I'm sure there are other good adhesives too. I am a believer in using the right glue for the job
👍
Matt, try to use a pair of sharp scissors to cut the verneer.
It worked fine for me all the time.
could... not cold
I can help you out. Got three pairs of scissors. I swap one for your pin router 😎😎😎
I think shipping would eat you alive :)
Hilarious "hot suck action" - great technology for reals thanks for this vid and all the others!!
I think you made a good call using more adhesive than you thought you needed, especially with those small cracks. I would tend to think that using additional glue would cause it to soak somewhat into the veneer, which would definitely help you out. I've seen far too many veneered guitars that have bubbles and de-lamination developing after only a few years. Tis the main reason why I don't buy veneered guitars. If its gonna have a figured cap on it, it better damn-well be a proper cap, not a paper-thin sheet. I've honestly never liked veneers, mostly since they are widely used on over-priced furniture and guitars that are trying to be something they're not.
If I'm ever to put a top on any of my guitars, what I'm gonna end up doing is planing 1/4" - 3/8" off the top of the body and replacing it with a chunk of proper quilted maple or something similar.
Too much glue is a thing too. We did one where the adhesive got sucked through the veneer and made a huge mess.
I think a lot about veneers and put them in the same category as painted graphics or even our fabric tops. They certainly don't anything sonically... and that's okay. If companies charge more money for veneer than that's not okay.
When it comes to caps, maple specifically, it's not about the sound for me, although a thicker hard-wood cap will tend to brighten up all Mahogany guitars like the LP, simply because hard woods tend to absorb less of the high-end resonance of the strings. You can disbelieve in the whole tone-wood schtick all you want, but the fact of the matter is that harder materials, regardless of type or species, will yield a brighter sounding guitar. What makes me interested in them is both a cosmetic and durability thing. Any type of maple cap will generally be a lot harder than the substrate wood, which enhances durability, and let's face it: A slab of Quilted Maple will generally have alot more depth to the grain than a veneer would, and would be easier to finish, to boot. The only thing difficult about it would be rendering the faux-binding, masked off edge look that I love so much about guitars with proper caps on them.
To me, the sexiest guitars I've ever seen had the edges of the cap masked off when applying color coats.
build out the sides of your body with a steamed and molded up 1/4" piece of filler strip so its flush at top, double sided tape adhere to body, then let your veneer hang over the body 1/4" be sure not to glue that strip.. then when you vacuum your edge will not be crimped and broken down then you can shaper perfectly with router and not worry so much about placement on glue up
Cool man
Is it possible to veneer the edges of the guitar and if so how would you do it? Was thinking along the lines of maple front/back, something else on the sides and then maybe a light whiter coloured edging strip around front back edges. I guess a bit prs like?
Interesting channel, thanks.
Hi Russell, I'm sure it could be done but I have never attempted it. Veneer is pretty flexible but cutaways could still present you with some challenges.
Good luck, thanks for watching, glad to hear you are enjoying the videos
Looks great nice job
Thanks Rosa
"Basswood, pretty ugly, but it's wood". Sounds a little like last call at the bar on Saturday night.
HAHAHA
Cool body. What grit sandpaper do you recommend for glue cleanup and finish?
Hi Richard, thanks for watching.
You should work your way through the regular grits, you know, 120, to 220... since the veneer is real wood albeit very thin. People who work with veneers a lot will tell you to use pencil marks so you know you are not spending too much time in one spot.
I was slightly terrified squeeze out would glue the top to the bag :) Thankfully I was wrong!
Ha yeah that would be a bummer, the bag is pretty slick... I don't think anything would stick to it.
Epoxy resin won't even stick to these things.
I saw a video of a guy doing a fabric top with resin in one of these bags once... was that you Don?
I have not done a fabric top (yet :) ) - but I have done body and neck laminates with both West Systems and 3M epoxies. As long as the surface of the bag is still pretty "slick like new" most resins won't stick too much. That said - I don't leave anything in the bag any longer than the initial set for the adhesive in question. Once it's glued I pull it our for the "full cure".
Hey dude, love your videos. I THINK that the veneer you're using is Eucalyptus, not Maple. Keep up the good work.
It was sold as maple but you know how it goes
Wow, that was really cool!
Thanks for watching Seth
@@TexasToastGuitars Most welcome, thank you!
Awesome vid, Thanks for the info!
You bet!
Where is a good place to get thicker veneers like 1/16 or 1/8?
Keep in mind, the thicker the veneer the harder it is to work with.
I know you made this video a while ago do you think this system is any cheaper now?
I don't know, I don't sell these units.
Have you tried this technique on an archtop guitar (les paul style kind of guitar)?
I have not but it can be done, there are a few tricks with the centerline do a few experiments before you get your glue out if you know what I mean
I wonder if those clothes vacuum bags would work as well
I have not tested that
Great job
Thanks for watching Michael
Looks great!!!
Thanks Brian
What kind of tape are you using? Is it the same as in the binding/acetone video?
We use the binding tape from StewMac
Can you glue veneer on any type of wood ?
I don't see why not
Usually a 'how to' video is instruction from practicing many times over....rather than 'this is my first time doing this'.
Yep, sorry you didn't like it
Hi Matt. I know this is an old video, but how do you stop the veneer cracking as the body wood expands and contracts over the next few weeks after glueing it on? Cheers.
Hi Martin, we do not have any issues with cracking... sorry I can't help you
You have to balance a veneer most of the time. Which is bonding another veneer to the backside of the face veneer. This allows the veneer to expand and contract. It will prevent warping, and shifting of the veneer.
Can we see the finished assembled product?
Hi Jason, I don't know if I still have this guitar but if we do I'll put it on display during the next podcast
How hard is it to cut a proper binding channel on a Strat with an arm contour? I can see where something like that would accent that veneer perfectly.
Hi John,
It is pretty easy... if you have a binding jig, cutting, thing. They are pretty affordable or even build it yourself they are easy to make too
Ok, so, how do you do this on a carved top Les Paul? I assume that the carved aspect would make the veneer crack, so my guess would be to use steam to make it pliable, but then I feel like the glue wouldn't hold. Thoughts from anyone?
Maybe steam it then vacuum it until it dries, then glue and vacuum again? There has to be a way.... more info needed. I want to do this on a les paul I'm getting. Thx
Hi MB,
You can absolutely do this on a carved top Les Paul. You might be surprised and just how much you can flex this stuff without it cracking. There are products you can use to make it even more pliable… you do not have to steam it. What you will have to do is tweak the center seam, it will not be straight, it doesn't make sense but I assure you it is true. Check this guy out he is pretty good at it...th-cam.com/video/xuHFc3BNJYM/w-d-xo.html
What did you do about the edges?
I think this one got binding
is this process possible with an old strat body that has already had the edges routed/rounded?
Yeah man we can do that for you
NICE!
Thanks brotherman
If you don’t have a foam weinie roller, do you think putting a hot dog on a stick & rolling it across the veneer would work?
We often run out of the rollers and use hotdogs :)
The greasy hot dog would possibly ruin the glue
Thanks for the links
You bet it should make things easier for y'all and quicker too
How much for a body like that ?
I checked link for Chicago veneer but they are not registered with eBay anymore. Do you get veneers from them still? Where would you recommend? Ty
We haven't bought any veneers in a while, I'm sure there are lots of places that will sell you something nice
Thought was a used body your gonna do yet it's fine 👍😎🎸🎼
?
Tite bond may suck up into the veneer and cause finishing and staining issues, unibond has "woodflower" in it which keeps the glue from sucking up to the surface. Also unibond and other veneer specific glues dry harder tha titebond so you wont get wood veneer creep ,which is bad..i only use the mesh on the face side unless you are double veneering , leave the blank closely to the veneer size ,square. Eliminates razor blading, i hate that. That way the veneer wont crush over the edges. If you have a porous spalted veneer you can coat the glue side with seal coat shellac first .veneers are fun.
The glue I used for this worked like a charm, no reason to switch. It is going to be a while before I run out. I ended up using the mesh on the top rather than wrapping it as well. I'm not sure what it really does but I bought it and by God I'm going to use it! hahaha
The mesh simply allows air to escape / not form pockets if the valve happens to "suck down" to the surface before the bag is fully evacuated. More important on flat surfaces than contours, but not a bad habit to use it. It will, over time, crush down tho.
That's a lot of glue - shelf life is about a year once opened. I'd suggest dividing it into smaller bottles, and storing in the fridge.
Joe at Veneer Supply is a great guy - he's got some KILLER tamo ash the perfect width for bookmatches. Pricey, but incredible figure. (well - pricey to me, but the per-top cost is less than what you paid for the stuff in this video)
Thanks for watching Don, we have several 1/4" roasted ash tops right now... you are right Joe is a cool dude. I think I mentioned that in the video? If not, I'll do another one.
Yeah - you mentioned them for sure. I LOVE roasted ash. I took a huge tree down in my yard last year - had a section sawed into 8/4 boards, should be ready to use next year. Ash borer beetles killing all the ash up here in the NE. Roasting northern ash is about he only thing other than chambering that will lighten this stuff up.
But Tamo ash (Japanese I believe) is a whole nother level - check out these bookmatched sets! (IIRC about $14/set) - imgur.com/a/7l4BCSB
Joe's stock must be getting low - he's jacked the prices a bit since I bought mine (but he's still got some nice stock)
Painted 👀👀👀
This guitar did eventually get painted but I'm not sure where the pics are
Don't really think basswood is ugly. Just not that interresting, that's all. 🙂
Me too
Can you commission to do this?
That would look gorgeous with a mahogany stain and clearcoat. No paint....
This one will be getting tobacco burst. So, not to far off from your recommendation. Stay tuned I'm sure we will get some video of that.
Matt, What model Vacuum bag did you purchase and what was the size ? I'm buying the same setup that you got !
www.veneersupplies.com/products/VS-Standard-Vinyl-Vacuum-Bag-2-x-2.html
This is the one I got it is pretty much the cheapest thing they had, works great for electric guitar bodies
Looks exactly like titebond cold press veneer glue.
That is good stuff
Apparently veneer glue has a lower water content than say regular tight bond,tight bond do a veneer glue also,something to do with normal glue soaks throUgh the veneer and changes the colour of the veneer,maybe making it blotchy,plus the extra water cant evaporate properly in the vac bag.
I'm not sure what the difference is?
i heard it's the water content in normal glue that can mess the veneer up,i'm an electronics technician,my only trip to glue land is for tightbond for tube amp cabs,though i may need to veneer my telecaster(once i build it).
Love the veneer. Maybe a black neck? I also like the term ‘weinie roller’ 😂😂
I got that yesterday after I talked to you
My problem is the veneer always chips when i trim the excess
That can be a problem MrMisterMan, the pin router helps keep that to a minimum.
Gotta ask, why do you call it a weenie roller? Is it an actual name, or an 'inyerendo'?
Chris assures me that "Weenie Roller" is an industry standard term.
In Chris we trust.
Can’t justify a vacuum for one project. And pointers on what I should do? I tried going with clamps and it left it bubbly all over....
You can get a vacuum pump pretty cheap on Amazon, and I've even rigged one up from an AC compressor from an auto junkyard. You just need to put a couple tack welds on the clutch so it doesn't spin, then bolt it to a frame with an electric motor. Just make sure you get the direction of spin correct.
Is the vacuum bag reusable like Steve's older woman.
The vacuum bag is reusable... I'm not going to bite on that other one
First let me thank Steve for allowing me to borrowing his older woman line. I'm sure she's lovely. I'll consider the vacuum bag method in the future. Sometimes lack of funds forces one to put in a little more elbow grease, though I will be supportive of your videos.
Try using a pair of good scissors to cut veneer .l find it cuts like heavy paper.
Yep scissors will do the trick
Its better to use a surgical scalpel to cut veneer.
Nope
Hello! I'm attempting to build guitar of my own design, and I want to glue a maple vineer on the top. I've encountered Your video and I'm wondering - can I use a "normal", like ikea, for example, vacuum bag? Will the force of vacuum cleaner be enough to pump out the air of simple bag? Best regards! Jack
Just use wood glue, glue it on and use a roller on the veneer, rolling out from the center to get all the bubbles out. Once that's done, clamp the edges and put some weights on the center section and leave it to dry overnight. You'll be good to go.
It looks the same,whatever works
Totally.
Should have used the PIN!
When in doubt... pin route?
Do NOT used water based glue with veneer. Use Veneer resin or contact cement. Water based products will cause your veneer to warp. If your veneer is cracking that is due to improper moisture levels and pressing. Use a specific mixture of water, alcohol and glycerin or just buy the veneer wetting mixture. Don't just spray it on and go. You need to lightly saturate the wood and then press it. Changing out towels in the press the 2nd hour, 5th hour. After 24 hours, your press should be complete. No cracking and your veneer will be flexible.
Too many jokes for that title.
The working title for the video was "Suck-Fest 2018"
That was too tacky... even for me
Looks like Chicago Veneers is no longer in business.
you don't want a wierd crack good luck
That's the last thing you want
great, everybody has a vacum bag🤨
I think it is a must have