Incredible self-contradictions emanating from this expert. He asks all the right questions but then proposes preposterous answers, all of which reflects the fact that Israel as a concept is unsustainable.
Sheesh, even moderate Israelis seem to talk about Palestinians like they're dehumanized sacks of bones at times. You get right to the edge of saying something kind and empathetic and grounded in principle but never quite manage to do it.
*ELI5 Abstract* *What was the talk about?* This talk was about Israel, a country in the Middle East, and the problems it has with its neighbors. A man named Tamir Paro, who used to be a leader in the Israeli secret service (like spies!), talked about these problems. *What are the problems?* * *Fighting:* Israel is always fighting with groups like Hamas in a place called Gaza. The leaders don't always have a good plan, so sometimes they lose battles. * *Iran:* Iran is another country nearby that wants to be powerful. It’s getting stronger and becoming a bigger problem for Israel. * *No clear plan:* Israel doesn't know what it wants to do in the future. Should it have its own borders? Should there be a separate country for Palestinians? These are big questions with no answers. *What else did they talk about?* * *Being prepared:* Israel needs to know its enemies well, so it doesn't get surprised when attacks happen. * *Politics matter:* Sometimes the people in charge of Israel do things that make the problems worse. *It sounds complicated!* Yes, it is! There are lots of people involved, and they don't always agree. It's been going on for a long time, making it hard to find a way for everyone to live in peace. *Abstract* This webinar, co-sponsored by the American Society of the University of Haifa and the JCC of Paramus Congregation B'nai Tikva, explored the challenges of Israeli security in the context of the ongoing conflict with Hamas and the potential for political solutions. Former Mossad director Tamir Pardo provided strategic commentary and reflections on recent events. Key points of the discussion included: * *The importance of political solutions:* Leaders emphasized that lasting peace requires a political solution alongside military actions. A "vicious cycle" of violence persists without a clear strategy. * *Iran's expanding regional influence:* Experts highlighted Iran's strategic gains following the withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal. Iran's growing influence in Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon poses a significant threat to Israel. * *Hamas and Gaza:* Speakers analyzed the motivations behind Hamas, the failure of Israeli intelligence and security measures, and the need for a long-term political strategy for Gaza. They also questioned the possibility of reducing extremism through education reform. * *Israel's strategic challenges:* Criticism arose towards the lack of a cohesive vision for Israel's future, particularly in defining its borders and addressing the Palestinian issue. The current government's actions towards Hamas and the Palestinian Authority were also critiqued. * *Lebanon and Hezbollah:* Discussions touched upon the threat posed by Hezbollah and the unique challenges it represents for Israel's security. The webinar underscored the complexity of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the urgent need for strategic clarity combined with political solutions to achieve lasting peace and security in the region.
*Summary* *Introduction* * *0:28* - Naomi Reinhardt (CEO, American Society of University of Haifa) welcomes the global audience to the webinar on Israeli intelligence, co-sponsored by Rabbi Arthur Weiner and The JCC of Pamis Congregation B'nai Tikva. * *0:51* - Introduction of speaker Tamir Pardo, former director of the Mossad (2011-2016), highlighting his significant contributions within Israeli intelligence and defense. *Tamir Pardo's Background* * *1:05* - Overview of Pardo's career in the Mossad, including classified operations and being awarded the Israel Security Prize three times. * *1:36* - Highlights of Pardo's leadership in the Keshet department (electronic intelligence), his role during the 2006 Lebanon War, and his advisory position to the Israel Defense Forces. *Discussion on Israeli Security* * *2:06* - Introduction of Duie Weiss Glass (Chair of University of Haifa's Executive Committee, former Director-General of Israel's Prime Minister's Office), highlighting his diplomatic contributions, including the Gaza disengagement in 2005. * *2:38* - The webinar focus: insights into the Israel-Hamas conflict, ceasefire negotiations, and post-war Gaza strategy. * *3:05* - University of Haifa resumes studies after conflict-related delays, emphasizing its role in fostering diversity and healing in Israeli society. * *3:37* - Importance of supporting the university's efforts in promoting tolerance and coexistence. * *3:58* - Acknowledgment of support for reserve soldiers and their families, with an appeal for further assistance during challenging times. * *5:06* - Introduction of Tamir Pardo by Duie Weiss Glass, who underlines Pardo's extensive experience in Israeli security, offering a unique perspective on the current situation. * *5:58* - Discussion points for Pardo: failures of Israeli intelligence and operations, hostage release, and the future of Gaza and the northern border. *Tamir Pardo's Analysis and Reflections* * *7:31* - Pardo reflects on military and political strategy, emphasizing the importance of understanding both oneself and the enemy (based on Sun Tzu's teachings). * *9:04* - Pardo shares a personal story from the October 7th attack, illustrating the devastating personal impact and highlighting the shock of the attack's success given Israel's capabilities. * *15:01* - Analysis of how 3000 terrorists captured Israeli land, questioning the effectiveness of Israel's defense doctrine and military preparedness. * *18:37* - Pardo calls for a thorough investigation into the Israeli defense system's failures and the need to understand underlying issues. *Understanding Terrorism and Political Transformation* * *18:42* - Prime Minister Sharon's stance: terrorist groups must be eliminated or forced into becoming political parties. * *19:07* - History shows terrorist groups either get defeated or transform into political entities (e.g., Ireland). * *19:55* - Israel's misperception of deterring terrorist groups led to misunderstanding their threat. * *20:46* - A story about a young Palestinian boy in Gaza highlights the desperation and lack of options leading to joining Hamas. * *22:29* - This story underscores Israeli leadership's misunderstanding of the situation in Gaza. *Israel's Security and Strategic Missteps* * *23:20* - Israeli intelligence underestimated threats due to a belief in their superiority, leading to a lack of preparedness. * *24:39* - Significant Israeli forces were deployed in the West Bank, leaving other fronts vulnerable. * *25:11* - Ignored intelligence hints and warnings led to a critical and avoidable situation. *Accountability and Political Responsibility* * *26:26* High-ranking officials took responsibility for the oversight, but the Prime Minister did not acknowledge his role in strategic failures. * *27:21* - Criticism of the government strategy that allowed the situation in Gaza to escalate. *Future of Israel and the Palestinian Issue* * *28:08* - Discussion on Israel's lack of a clear vision for its future and the Palestinian territories. * *29:11* - Importance of defining Israel's borders and the implications of not doing so. * *30:42* - Division within Israeli society on how to address the Palestinian issue and the future state of Israel. *Lebanon and Hezbollah* * *36:13* - Differentiation of Lebanon's situation from Gaza due to its structured political system versus Hezbollah's significant influence. * *37:36* - Hezbollah's military capabilities surpass those of the Lebanese Army, posing a unique challenge. * *39:00* - Suggested strategy: integrate Hezbollah's forces into the Lebanese Army for accountability and to prevent unilateral anti-Israel actions. * *40:02* - Advocacy for state-to-state conflict resolution to discourage attacks from non-state actors like Hezbollah. Disclaimer: I used gemini advanced 1.0 (2024.03.04) and gpt4-0125 to summarize the video transcript. This method may make mistakes in recognizing words and it can't distinguish between speakers.
*Summary 2/2* *Need for a Political Solution* * 41:04 - A political solution is the key to breaking the cycle of violence. * 41:53 - Without a political solution, the conflict will continue in a "vicious circle". *Iran's Growing Influence* * 43:15 - Iran was constrained until 2014. * 43:51 - Iran played a major role in defeating ISIS, gaining them regional power. * 44:50 - Iran, led by Qasem Soleimani, was instrumental in defeating ISIS in Iraq and Syria. * 45:49 - Iran has established major influence in Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon. * 46:47 - Israel played a role in the US withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal. * 47:16 - Iran is now actively pursuing nuclear weapons. *Addressing the Issues in Gaza* * 48:37 - The October 7th attack was humiliating for Israel. * 48:59 - Israel's military is successfully addressing Hamas in Gaza. * 49:49 - Defeating Hamas requires a long-term political strategy. *Ideological Challenges* * 50:19 - Reducing indoctrination and extremism in Gaza is questioned. * 50:39 - The Hamas Charter calls for violence against Israel. * 50:46 - Palestinians need education reform to change their perspective. *Palestinian Statehood and Israel's Lack of Vision* * 51:03 - The possibility of the Biden administration pushing for a Palestinian state is discussed. * 51:21 - The future of the Abraham Accords and their role in peace efforts is questioned. * 52:37 - Israel is criticized for lacking a clear vision for its future. * 53:00 - Israel should define its borders. * 53:49 - The future of Palestine rests on the Palestinians themselves changing their doctrine. *Israel's Priorities and Future Vision* * 58:55 - Top Priority: Bringing back hostages from Gaza. * 59:48 - Second Priority: Ensuring peace and security for Israeli citizens. * 1:00:55 - Third Priority: Justice against those responsible for the October 7th attack. * 1:01:17 - Israel needs a cohesive vision and strategy. * 1:01:23 - Aligning with Biden's approach on regional alliances is a possibility. *Webinar Conclusion and Strategy Discussion* * 1:02:48 - Tamir is thanked for his insightful discussion. * 1:03:04 - It's clarified that Israel has a strategy in place, despite appearances. * 1:03:15 - The government's control by the settlement movement is a primary concern. * 1:03:36 - Israel's strategy aims to weaken the Palestinian Authority, indirectly favoring Hamas. * 1:03:55 - The strategy involves allowing Qatar to support Hamas financially, enhancing their military capabilities. * 1:04:40 - The current government's policy prevents the Palestinian Authority from being part of any solution. * 1:05:07 - The strategy is critiqued as destructive and risky for Israel.x * 1:05:46 - The audience and Tamir are thanked for their participation. * 1:06:06 - Information about accessing the webinar recording and future webinars is shared. * 1:06:41 - The webinar sponsor is acknowledged. * 1:06:48 - Contact details and a call for donations are provided. * 1:07:08 - Final thanks are given, with a note on the next meeting.
This is a popular shallow bullshit that some people love to throw around because they think it makes them look "broad-minded" and "intelligent". The 2 concepts are totally orthogonal to each other. You can easily be any combination of these 2, including both of them. Freedom fighter simply means you are fighting for freedom/independence of the place where you live. So that's about the GOAL of your fight. But it doesn't say anything about the METHODS you are employing On the other hand, terrorist means that you are fighting using terror attacks. I.e. deliberately targeting the civilian population without military objectives in order to intimidate and terrorise. That's about THE METHODS you employ in your fighting. But says nothing about the GOAL of your fight. These 2 are not the "different sides of the same coin", but 2 totally independent things. E.g. - In 1848 the Italian states revolted against the Habsburg Austrian Empire and declared independence. Same year the Hungarians also did the same. These are pretty much the dictionary definition of freedom fights. They also fought in conventional way, so they were not terrorists. - In the US Civil War, the Confederation was fighting for seceding from the Union and to create their own independent union where they could freely adopt the laws they want (i.e. keep owning slaves). They were by definition freedom fighters. Also morally reprehensible in why they wanted freedom from the Union, but that's not part of the definition. What you want to use your freedom that you are fighting for is another question. (Oh, what shocking surprise: being a freedom fighter is not equal being a good guy!!! What a shock how real life is more complicated then shallow slogans might make it look like...) They also fought in a conventional way, so they were also not terrorists. - ETA was fighting for Basque independence. That also quite undisputably makes them freedom fighters. But they also employed terror attacks in their campaign, so they are widely considered to be a terrorist organisation. - Provisional IRA was fighting for making N Ireland part of Ireland instead of the UK. That makes it debatable whether they were freedom fighters. They didn't want the territory to be independent but to "change hands". If you asked a republican in N Ireland (the ones wanting to join Ireland) then it was a fight for freedom, because they identified with the Irish people living in Ireland and defined freedom as N Ireland belonging to the whole group of Irish people. But if you were to ask a unionist (the ones who wanted to remain in the UK) then it was not a fight for freedom, because they didn't want to join another country. On the terrorism axis: IRA also employed terror attacks in England and other parts in the UK, which made it widely considered as a terrorist organisation. - ISIS was/is fighting to create a global islamist caliphate. That's obviously not a fight for freedom. They were also employing brutal terror tactics, so there is not really a question whether they are a terrorist organisation.
@@kazahtudos "On the other hand, terrorist means that you are fighting using terror attacks. I.e. deliberately targeting the civilian population without military objectives in order to intimidate and terrorise."- that is a PERFECT description of what Israel is doing right now! Israel is the BIGGEST TERRORIST entity on earth! Only their money and ability to purchase Western leaders and whole Western political parties & institutions prevent them from ALL being hauled off to The Hague for their despicable, inhumane crimes.
Would you tag what gave you offense? Language is important. When folks line up at the first words , it's hard to go forward. I read this before listening ( lots in my stack, but all are important)
Gawd, you can ALWAYS tell when it's an 'intellectual' institution or organization that posts a speech, seminar, etc, because like this one they spend the first ten minutes talking & bragging about themselves and how great they are.
Excellent. thank you
Incredible self-contradictions emanating from this expert. He asks all the right questions but then proposes preposterous answers, all of which reflects the fact that Israel as a concept is unsustainable.
Sheesh, even moderate Israelis seem to talk about Palestinians like they're dehumanized sacks of bones at times. You get right to the edge of saying something kind and empathetic and grounded in principle but never quite manage to do it.
*ELI5 Abstract*
*What was the talk about?*
This talk was about Israel, a country in the Middle East, and the
problems it has with its neighbors. A man named Tamir Paro, who used
to be a leader in the Israeli secret service (like spies!), talked
about these problems.
*What are the problems?*
* *Fighting:* Israel is always fighting with groups like Hamas in a
place called Gaza. The leaders don't always have a good plan, so
sometimes they lose battles.
* *Iran:* Iran is another country nearby that wants to be powerful.
It’s getting stronger and becoming a bigger problem for Israel.
* *No clear plan:* Israel doesn't know what it wants to do in the
future. Should it have its own borders? Should there be a separate
country for Palestinians? These are big questions with no answers.
*What else did they talk about?*
* *Being prepared:* Israel needs to know its enemies well, so it
doesn't get surprised when attacks happen.
* *Politics matter:* Sometimes the people in charge of Israel do
things that make the problems worse.
*It sounds complicated!*
Yes, it is! There are lots of people involved, and they don't always
agree. It's been going on for a long time, making it hard to find a
way for everyone to live in peace.
*Abstract*
This webinar, co-sponsored by the American Society of the University
of Haifa and the JCC of Paramus Congregation B'nai Tikva, explored the
challenges of Israeli security in the context of the ongoing conflict
with Hamas and the potential for political solutions. Former Mossad
director Tamir Pardo provided strategic commentary and reflections on
recent events.
Key points of the discussion included:
* *The importance of political solutions:* Leaders emphasized that
lasting peace requires a political solution alongside military
actions. A "vicious cycle" of violence persists without a clear
strategy.
* *Iran's expanding regional influence:* Experts highlighted Iran's
strategic gains following the withdrawal from the Iran nuclear
deal. Iran's growing influence in Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon poses a
significant threat to Israel.
* *Hamas and Gaza:* Speakers analyzed the motivations behind Hamas,
the failure of Israeli intelligence and security measures, and the
need for a long-term political strategy for Gaza. They also
questioned the possibility of reducing extremism through education
reform.
* *Israel's strategic challenges:* Criticism arose towards the lack of
a cohesive vision for Israel's future, particularly in defining its
borders and addressing the Palestinian issue. The current
government's actions towards Hamas and the Palestinian Authority
were also critiqued.
* *Lebanon and Hezbollah:* Discussions touched upon the threat posed
by Hezbollah and the unique challenges it represents for Israel's
security.
The webinar underscored the complexity of the Israeli-Palestinian
conflict and the urgent need for strategic clarity combined with
political solutions to achieve lasting peace and security in the
region.
*Summary*
*Introduction*
* *0:28* - Naomi Reinhardt (CEO, American Society of University of
Haifa) welcomes the global audience to the webinar on Israeli
intelligence, co-sponsored by Rabbi Arthur Weiner and The JCC of
Pamis Congregation B'nai Tikva.
* *0:51* - Introduction of speaker Tamir Pardo, former director of the
Mossad (2011-2016), highlighting his significant contributions
within Israeli intelligence and defense.
*Tamir Pardo's Background*
* *1:05* - Overview of Pardo's career in the Mossad, including
classified operations and being awarded the Israel Security Prize
three times.
* *1:36* - Highlights of Pardo's leadership in the Keshet department
(electronic intelligence), his role during the 2006 Lebanon War, and
his advisory position to the Israel Defense Forces.
*Discussion on Israeli Security*
* *2:06* - Introduction of Duie Weiss Glass (Chair of University of
Haifa's Executive Committee, former Director-General of Israel's
Prime Minister's Office), highlighting his diplomatic contributions,
including the Gaza disengagement in 2005.
* *2:38* - The webinar focus: insights into the Israel-Hamas conflict,
ceasefire negotiations, and post-war Gaza strategy.
* *3:05* - University of Haifa resumes studies after conflict-related
delays, emphasizing its role in fostering diversity and healing in
Israeli society.
* *3:37* - Importance of supporting the university's efforts in
promoting tolerance and coexistence.
* *3:58* - Acknowledgment of support for reserve soldiers and their
families, with an appeal for further assistance during challenging
times.
* *5:06* - Introduction of Tamir Pardo by Duie Weiss Glass, who
underlines Pardo's extensive experience in Israeli security,
offering a unique perspective on the current situation.
* *5:58* - Discussion points for Pardo: failures of Israeli
intelligence and operations, hostage release, and the future of Gaza
and the northern border.
*Tamir Pardo's Analysis and Reflections*
* *7:31* - Pardo reflects on military and political strategy,
emphasizing the importance of understanding both oneself and the
enemy (based on Sun Tzu's teachings).
* *9:04* - Pardo shares a personal story from the October 7th attack,
illustrating the devastating personal impact and highlighting the
shock of the attack's success given Israel's capabilities.
* *15:01* - Analysis of how 3000 terrorists captured Israeli land,
questioning the effectiveness of Israel's defense doctrine and
military preparedness.
* *18:37* - Pardo calls for a thorough investigation into the Israeli
defense system's failures and the need to understand underlying
issues.
*Understanding Terrorism and Political Transformation*
* *18:42* - Prime Minister Sharon's stance: terrorist groups must be
eliminated or forced into becoming political parties.
* *19:07* - History shows terrorist groups either get defeated or
transform into political entities (e.g., Ireland).
* *19:55* - Israel's misperception of deterring terrorist groups led
to misunderstanding their threat.
* *20:46* - A story about a young Palestinian boy in Gaza highlights
the desperation and lack of options leading to joining Hamas.
* *22:29* - This story underscores Israeli leadership's
misunderstanding of the situation in Gaza.
*Israel's Security and Strategic Missteps*
* *23:20* - Israeli intelligence underestimated threats due to a
belief in their superiority, leading to a lack of preparedness.
* *24:39* - Significant Israeli forces were deployed in the West Bank,
leaving other fronts vulnerable.
* *25:11* - Ignored intelligence hints and warnings led to a critical
and avoidable situation.
*Accountability and Political Responsibility*
* *26:26* High-ranking officials took responsibility for the
oversight, but the Prime Minister did not acknowledge his role in
strategic failures.
* *27:21* - Criticism of the government strategy that allowed the
situation in Gaza to escalate.
*Future of Israel and the Palestinian Issue*
* *28:08* - Discussion on Israel's lack of a clear vision for its
future and the Palestinian territories.
* *29:11* - Importance of defining Israel's borders and the
implications of not doing so.
* *30:42* - Division within Israeli society on how to address the
Palestinian issue and the future state of Israel.
*Lebanon and Hezbollah*
* *36:13* - Differentiation of Lebanon's situation from Gaza due to
its structured political system versus Hezbollah's significant
influence.
* *37:36* - Hezbollah's military capabilities surpass those of the
Lebanese Army, posing a unique challenge.
* *39:00* - Suggested strategy: integrate Hezbollah's forces into the
Lebanese Army for accountability and to prevent unilateral
anti-Israel actions.
* *40:02* - Advocacy for state-to-state conflict resolution to
discourage attacks from non-state actors like Hezbollah.
Disclaimer: I used gemini advanced 1.0 (2024.03.04) and gpt4-0125 to
summarize the video transcript. This method may make mistakes in
recognizing words and it can't distinguish between speakers.
*Summary 2/2*
*Need for a Political Solution*
* 41:04 - A political solution is the key to breaking the cycle of violence.
* 41:53 - Without a political solution, the conflict will continue in a "vicious circle".
*Iran's Growing Influence*
* 43:15 - Iran was constrained until 2014.
* 43:51 - Iran played a major role in defeating ISIS, gaining them regional power.
* 44:50 - Iran, led by Qasem Soleimani, was instrumental in defeating ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
* 45:49 - Iran has established major influence in Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon.
* 46:47 - Israel played a role in the US withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.
* 47:16 - Iran is now actively pursuing nuclear weapons.
*Addressing the Issues in Gaza*
* 48:37 - The October 7th attack was humiliating for Israel.
* 48:59 - Israel's military is successfully addressing Hamas in Gaza.
* 49:49 - Defeating Hamas requires a long-term political strategy.
*Ideological Challenges*
* 50:19 - Reducing indoctrination and extremism in Gaza is questioned.
* 50:39 - The Hamas Charter calls for violence against Israel.
* 50:46 - Palestinians need education reform to change their perspective.
*Palestinian Statehood and Israel's Lack of Vision*
* 51:03 - The possibility of the Biden administration pushing for a Palestinian state is discussed.
* 51:21 - The future of the Abraham Accords and their role in peace efforts is questioned.
* 52:37 - Israel is criticized for lacking a clear vision for its future.
* 53:00 - Israel should define its borders.
* 53:49 - The future of Palestine rests on the Palestinians themselves changing their doctrine.
*Israel's Priorities and Future Vision*
* 58:55 - Top Priority: Bringing back hostages from Gaza.
* 59:48 - Second Priority: Ensuring peace and security for Israeli citizens.
* 1:00:55 - Third Priority: Justice against those responsible for the October 7th attack.
* 1:01:17 - Israel needs a cohesive vision and strategy.
* 1:01:23 - Aligning with Biden's approach on regional alliances is a possibility.
*Webinar Conclusion and Strategy Discussion*
* 1:02:48 - Tamir is thanked for his insightful discussion.
* 1:03:04 - It's clarified that Israel has a strategy in place, despite appearances.
* 1:03:15 - The government's control by the settlement movement is a primary concern.
* 1:03:36 - Israel's strategy aims to weaken the Palestinian Authority, indirectly favoring Hamas.
* 1:03:55 - The strategy involves allowing Qatar to support Hamas financially, enhancing their military capabilities.
* 1:04:40 - The current government's policy prevents the Palestinian Authority from being part of any solution.
* 1:05:07 - The strategy is critiqued as destructive and risky for Israel.x
* 1:05:46 - The audience and Tamir are thanked for their participation.
* 1:06:06 - Information about accessing the webinar recording and future webinars is shared.
* 1:06:41 - The webinar sponsor is acknowledged.
* 1:06:48 - Contact details and a call for donations are provided.
* 1:07:08 - Final thanks are given, with a note on the next meeting.
Some people’s terrorist is another person’ freedom fighter. The British considered Irgun a terrorist group!
This is a popular shallow bullshit that some people love to throw around because they think it makes them look "broad-minded" and "intelligent".
The 2 concepts are totally orthogonal to each other. You can easily be any combination of these 2, including both of them.
Freedom fighter simply means you are fighting for freedom/independence of the place where you live.
So that's about the GOAL of your fight.
But it doesn't say anything about the METHODS you are employing
On the other hand, terrorist means that you are fighting using terror attacks. I.e. deliberately targeting the civilian population without military objectives in order to intimidate and terrorise.
That's about THE METHODS you employ in your fighting.
But says nothing about the GOAL of your fight.
These 2 are not the "different sides of the same coin", but 2 totally independent things.
E.g.
- In 1848 the Italian states revolted against the Habsburg Austrian Empire and declared independence. Same year the Hungarians also did the same.
These are pretty much the dictionary definition of freedom fights.
They also fought in conventional way, so they were not terrorists.
- In the US Civil War, the Confederation was fighting for seceding from the Union and to create their own independent union where they could freely adopt the laws they want (i.e. keep owning slaves).
They were by definition freedom fighters. Also morally reprehensible in why they wanted freedom from the Union, but that's not part of the definition. What you want to use your freedom that you are fighting for is another question. (Oh, what shocking surprise: being a freedom fighter is not equal being a good guy!!! What a shock how real life is more complicated then shallow slogans might make it look like...)
They also fought in a conventional way, so they were also not terrorists.
- ETA was fighting for Basque independence.
That also quite undisputably makes them freedom fighters.
But they also employed terror attacks in their campaign, so they are widely considered to be a terrorist organisation.
- Provisional IRA was fighting for making N Ireland part of Ireland instead of the UK.
That makes it debatable whether they were freedom fighters. They didn't want the territory to be independent but to "change hands".
If you asked a republican in N Ireland (the ones wanting to join Ireland) then it was a fight for freedom, because they identified with the Irish people living in Ireland and defined freedom as N Ireland belonging to the whole group of Irish people. But if you were to ask a unionist (the ones who wanted to remain in the UK) then it was not a fight for freedom, because they didn't want to join another country.
On the terrorism axis: IRA also employed terror attacks in England and other parts in the UK, which made it widely considered as a terrorist organisation.
- ISIS was/is fighting to create a global islamist caliphate.
That's obviously not a fight for freedom.
They were also employing brutal terror tactics, so there is not really a question whether they are a terrorist organisation.
@@kazahtudos "On the other hand, terrorist means that you are fighting using terror attacks. I.e. deliberately targeting the civilian population without military objectives in order to intimidate and terrorise."- that is a PERFECT description of what Israel is doing right now! Israel is the BIGGEST TERRORIST entity on earth! Only their money and ability to purchase Western leaders and whole Western political parties & institutions prevent them from ALL being hauled off to The Hague for their despicable, inhumane crimes.
Your extensive explanation is appreciated as is your grasp of events. However your language towards me is not appreciated.
Would you tag what gave you offense?
Language is important. When folks line up at the first words , it's hard to go forward.
I read this before listening ( lots in my stack, but all are important)
Gawd, you can ALWAYS tell when it's an 'intellectual' institution or organization that posts a speech, seminar, etc, because like this one they spend the first ten minutes talking & bragging about themselves and how great they are.