TFCON LA had some of the creators of the movie as special guests. One of them said the intention was always for Cyclonus to be built from Skywarp. So it's official now.
@@CIIncProds well he wasn't...he was made from bombshells body...cause bombshells body was in front of skywarp before begin changed...same with thundercracker...his dead body was in the middle
Skywarp and Thundercracker were of higher rank than the lowly Insecticons. Megatron looked at the Insecticons as annoying pests. So it makes sense that the Insecticons became The Sweeps. Skywarp became Cyclonus. Thundercracker became Scourge while the Insecticons become The Sweeps. If it were up to me, Reflector should have become Cyclonus’ Armada.
I agree with this theory on Thundercracker, and Skywarp becoming Scorge, and Cyclonus. I'm a HUGE G1 fan, and I still love that series more than the new Movies today. Actually I only seen the 1st. I just could not follow 🤷🏾♂️
It would really make more sence if Cyclonus was once Skywarp. Then, the Season 3 Ghost Starscream Episodes would make sence. Starscream possesed both Cyclonus and Scourge, who once were Skywarp and Thundercracker, his seeker comrades and same bodytype. This would be a nice easter egg.
It also makes sense since Starscream was their former commander. Why posses someone you don't know. Starscream wouldn't know Bombshell too well, so Skywarp seems more likely.
I personally believe it’s Skywarp because while yes he isn’t as intelligent as bombshell and Cyclonus, remember Unicorn upgraded their bodies meaning he could have gotten smarter.
That also means Unicron could have altered Bombshell's loyalty to Galvatron but that doesn't matter since Cyclonus was confirmed to having been Skywarp.
Also the ridiculously inconsistent number of Sweeps in Season 3 fits with the Insecticons' cloning abilities. They can actively 'reproduce' when it's required of them.
For me skywarp is cyclonus because it is more appropriate for bombshell and the other insecticons to be the sweeps and Thundercracker and skywarp are always close like scourge and cyclonus but thats my opinion
A better reason, the Insecticons possessed the ability to multiple by creating clones. The Sweeps had the same ability. That´s the reason their number is increasing during the Movie and season 3. But neither Cyclonus or Scourge seemed to possess that ability.
With that logic then Scourge is Kickback. But Thundercracker is in the front right? Where is Bombshell? Also when Unicron said Cyclonus The Warrior the Cyclonus that was Bombshell Transformed and the Cyclonus that was Skywarp Transformed after he said and his Armada. More proof that your theory is wrong. Unicron rebuilt and reformated them. So explain to me what is reformatting? I'll tell you give a new format to; revise or represent in another format. Case closed Cyclonus was Bombshell
Decades before your work, I always understood that Thundercracker became Scourge and Skywarp became Cyclonous. And yes, the Sweeps were made from Insecticon clones, as we can see Bombshell, Kickback, and Shrapnel persist. Well done.
I like to think that Skywarp and Thundercracker became Cyclonus and Scourge. Then Unicron turned the insecticons into the sweeps because they were left over.
I always decided it was Skywarp only because it made sense to make both jets into the leaders of the Sweeps and Armada. Not the most logical or well reasoned argument but I like it
Perfectly sensible. Insecticons were each one of many of a swarm. Skywarp and Thundercracker were somewhat unique like Starscream, and presumably comparably powerful and competent. It was always strange to me that Starscream was treated on a higher level from his two "brothers". The Unicron transformations gave the other two their due significance as Cyclonus and Scourge. It makes no sense for a lowly insecticon to be one of those two.
Personally, As a kid, I figured the Decepticons were dead and Unicron made their bodies into new loyal capable warriors. They are so far removed from their original counterparts that they were never the original guys to me.
They certainly are far removed. Their programming is very different. In Beast Machines, Tankor, Thrust, and Jetstorm behave completely different than Rhinox, Waspinator, and Silverbolt respectively, though they do remember what they did once the real them came out.
RodimusPrimal I always did like Waspinator. Still wondering how he ended up on Cybertron since he was left behind on Earth as the only functional Cybertronian.
RodimusPrimal the reprogramming theory is good as well but Beast Wars/ Beast Machines had better continuity than G1. G1 never explained anything and that's why we're having videos like this.
EclipseWarlord My best guess is he left Earth and flew through space on his own flight power alone. With his quote "took forever, but was worth it" I think it took millions of years for him to get to Cybertron, meaning that when he got there, Cybertron was well into the time period he came from
One thing I don’t think anybody has mentioned was the fact that there was almost a Megatron/Skywarp triple changer at one point in G1. This shows that the people at Hasbro/Takara had more interest in him than people give him credit for.
Great video! This was always one of my favorites! As for what I think, I say Cyclonus was Skywarp as the Insecticons can clone themselves, hence them being all the Sweeps and "the armada." Btw, in the Animated timeline it is implied that Cyclonus is a version of Skywarp from the future, as Scalpel takes note that Cyclonus shares specs with Skywarp.
I love how scourge threw the bot into the glass and cyclonus just goes "well everyone has to be somewhere" and when scourge starts shooting the others cyclonus just chills out and casually walks up to the input interface
I've always had a love/hate relationship with the movie. Most of the hate coming from the lack of respect the writers had for our beloved Cybertronians. (I'll go into their heartlessly killing Prowl another time.) As you, Rod Prime, have oft stated, their primary goal was to SELL TOYS. Meaning pesky things like continuity didn't matter. If they'd taken five minutes to think about things, they'd have realized how much sense it makes for the loyal Skywarp to be reformatted as Cyclonus, and more, purposely animated him BECOMING that bot! Also makes sense the replicating Insecticons becoming the multiplying Sweeps. Case closed. And, hey, if they wanted to sell toys so badly, why didn't they market GENERIC Sweeps so kids could make sure Scourge had his "armada" when playing with their TFs? A (hungry) planetful of lost and missed opportunities. 🤔
I feel the same about the movie. If they wanted to sell lore toys, just use them as new characters in new episodes, just introduce them, not kill everyone we know. ;_; Maybe Megatron wanted to update his armor to be stronger and to be called Galvatron.
@@miiirky1904 I second that. While there was much great about the movie, killing Prime and the other Autobots was just so dumb. He should have survived, heavily damaged maybe, but alive.
The Killing of Optimus Prime is a cautionary tale: Take care of your beloved fictional characters. While there are benefits in killing Prime in terms of story telling, the reality is that Hasbro got rid of him just to make way to sell new toys (I feel like Dinobot’s death in Beast Wars was handled a bit better imo). Imagine if Lucasfilm made a Star Wars sequel Trilogy and carelessly got rid of the old cast just to make way for new characters we barely know or care about. Oh wait…
It makes sense that the Insecticons all became sweeps. They retained their ability to clone themselves. Also transformers being "dead", doesn't mean all that much. It was shown multiple times that dead transformers could be reactivated, and would retain their previous personalities. The movie clearly did not show parts of dead decepticons being recombined. Individual damaged decepticons became individual new/improved ones.
I agree, although I do think that a little bit of Bombshell made it into Cyclonus. That would explain his heightened intelligence and his ability to clone himself.
I kind of like the idea that Skywarp is Cyclonus. With Thundercracker being Scourge it's pretty fitting for 2 of the 3 main seekers to become remade after Starscream (1 of the 3) fucks them over.
I have always thought cyclonus was a combination of the two skywarp and bombshell. The two merged to become the ultimate second in command loyal and smart
I like this theory since Cyclonus had the characteristics of intelligence, and leadership from bombshell. Loyalty from Skywarp. Script from the movie said, Cyclonus was a new decepticon which was build with the parts from the two
As I told you on your original video my friend, I am on your side, Cyclonus was Skywarp and the sweeps were insecticons. It would make sense Skywarp and Thndercracker, Megatron´s original air attack team became the leaders for Galvatron´s new squad.
RE: Skywarp: Remember in the G1 cartoon episode when Megatron dug that crystal out of the South American pyramid, and then summoned Skywarp to fight, and Starscream said, "How dare you demote me to guard-duty, Megatron!" And Skywarp said (?) "Have fun playing crystal, NERDscreamer. Bye-eeee." And he transformed and flew off. That moment when he said 'bye', was so great. His voice sounded so metallic, and yet was so inflected with so much smart-assness. He sounded like a robot to have that much computer effect IN his voice, but achieved that level of smart-assness in the same voice. Because of the degree of smart-assness, his voice seemed like it was coming from a real living being, not a synthesizer in a studio. It was captured so well. That moment is one of my favorite moments in visual entertainment from all time. And I'm over 45 years old.
I Am more towards that Cyclonus is a new Character. I also believe that He inherited the traits of Both Bombshell, and Skywarp. Combining The intelligence of Bombshell, with Skywarp's Loyalty and Jet form could be interestind. Plus I prefer a combination of character's traits into a new character
To me, Skywarp becaome Cyclonus, and bombshell instead of the Armada, was meant to be the third sweep as seen in the movie, and the rest of season three.
It always made more sense to me Cyclonus is Skywarp. I just felt that when you didn't see the Armada Cyclonus after that one scene and then Scourge and now 3 sweeps instead of 2 that maybe the animators thought Bombshell should be a Sweep too and just have them all be made from cloned Insecticons. You do see the all 3 Insecticons later in season 3 and the Sweeps seem to always grow in numbers. But, it's whatever you want it to be.
I always thought it was Skywarp. Since the Seekers were always high-ranking, being directly under Megatron, and maybe Soundwave and Shockwave, it makes sense for the loyal lieutenants to maintain their positions. As for the so-called "Armada", I thought that was Unicron's way of saying that Scourge and the Sweeps were subservient to Cyclonus, since "Warrior" sounds higher-ranking than "Tracker", and immediately after saying "and his armada", we see the whole fleet of new Decepticons assembled together. As for there being two of the same Cyclonus character model, I chalk it up to an animation error. Afterall, we see Ironhide attacking Autobot City on the side of the Decepticons, Rumble and Frenzy both appear as black and red when attacking Blaster's tower, and Snarl keeps popping in and out of the film.
That being the case, why would Scourge allow Starscream to inhabit him, when he was trying to get his own body? Wouldn't Scourge have memory of Starscream not sticking up for him when he was tossed from Astrotrain?
I know I'm late to this, but I'm on the Skywarp side. You bring up some good points that lean towards Skywarp, with Bombshell clone parts mixed in, and we do see aspects of Skywarp in Cyclonus's personality in the G1 cartoon in Season 3, so for me, I'm on Skywarp side
12:49 to add to that point, cyclonus is even seen running over some of the insecticons when landing during the coronation scene (a teal thundercracker is also there, but with the seekers having 5 billion repaints in the show, that could've been anyone)
I have always thought the simplest answer was Thudercracker and Bombshell became the two main characters since they were in the forefront. This is the first time I heard a version where they could be a mish mesh of dead Decepticons. Seems like they made Scourge unique enough to not have an argument of who he was. The mish mesh theory could explain it better as far as Cyclonus is concerned since it seems like that would best explain his loyalty like Skywarp and smarts like Bombshell. Maybe he is a 50/50 combination of them.
I think it makes more sense that Cyclonus was created from the combination of both Bombshell and Skywarp. Skywarp was never considered to be a very intelligent character when compared to a Decepticon like Cyclonus. So having been created from a combination of the highly intelligent Bombshell and the faster, more courageous and loyal Skywarp makes the most sense for the character's origin and backstory.
I'd like to see a person do a tiny edit where you see both Cyclonus forming, but then Bombshell's comes apart before completion, parts bonding to Skywarp. All in all, I'd have liked to see more "robot guts" all floating around and being drawn together with all of them.
For me, the more acceptable theory is "Cyclonus was remodeled from Skywarp". Tranformers: the movie was an 80's cartoon and there was so many flaws in creating drawings then. The technology was very limited that time. Images are done manually by animators. Errors are likely to happened.
My question is....Why are there 3 Scourge sweeps on season 3? If I remember, Unicron made only 2 sweeps for Scourge and 1 Armada for Cyclonus. Then, on the season 3, the Cyclonus Armada desappears and Another Scourge Sweep appears, (O-o),with this theory on my head I have this.... 3 Sweeps= The 3 Insecticons..... Cyclonus=Skywarp Scourge= Thundercracker...... In short.....I'M TEAM SKYWARP.
I like to think he's Skywarp (mostly, he's not 100% Skywarp) because, the insecticon cloning powers makes sence for the Sweeps. I don't think it would be accurate to say Cyclonus is Bombshell at all, since the Insecticons survive the movie due to there swarm of clones. So the sweeps/Cyclonus aren't rebuilt versions of Shrapnel, Kickback, and Bombshell, but rather they're rebuilt versions of Zaptrap, Shothole, and Salvo, the Insecticons respective clones. That isn't to say that Cyclonus isn't, in part, made from insecticon parts. I suspect Scourge has a similar mix of Seeker and Insecticon.
Brilliant with the insecticon cloning!!! Makes sense as Armada is a literal clone of Cyclonus...35 years later, never thought of that! THAT'S AWESOME FRIENDO 🙂🙂🤩
My pet theory (formed circa 1986-87): Megatron's body & life spark --> Galvatron Skywarp's body --> Cyclonus Bombshell clone body --> Cyclonus' "Armada" (destroyed in battle later on during Transformers: The Movie) Thundercracker --> Scourge Shrapnel clone body --> Sweep #1 Kickback clone body --> Sweep #2 Other insecticon clones and/or Unicron's scrap metal collection --> any and all other Sweeps Shockwave --> destroyed while heroically defending Cybertron from Unicron
If I could go back in time and re write that part of the movie this is how I would do it. 1.) The Decepticons that get thrown out of Astrotrain would have been Megatron, Thundercracker, Skywarp, and the three reflector guys. Not the insecticons. 2.) Skywarp would have been turned into Cyclonus, Reflector would have been three Sweeps and Thundercracker would have been Scourge, although Not a sweep lookalike. I would have had Scourge look like a jet not a hovercraft. I never understood why Hasbro, trying to sell toys, made 4 guys all look the same and only market one of them. Seems like a wasted opportunity for another toy.
rogue9ine My retcon or alternate timeline for Transformers The Movie are as follows: 1) Same as you except not Reflector, but the Insecticons with 4 members, instead of 3. The fourth member was part of the group, but stayed on Cybertron, so no Insect mode, but a flying craft mode. 2) Megatron turns to Galvatron, Skywarp to Cyclonus, Thundercracker to Scourge, and now the Insecticons would turn into the Deluxe Insecticons in this order, Shrapnel to Chopshop, Kickback to Ransack, Bombshell to Barrage and the 4th member to Venom. The Sweeps I probably would not have created and the Deluxe Insecticons would be able to use cloning, like the originals. Hasbro came up with the stupid idea in regards to Transformers the Movie, that if anyone wanted the Sweeps then people should buy more Scourge toys. They presumably intended that Cyclonus's Armada was going to be just a bunch of Cyclonus look alikes and for people to just buy more Cyclonus toys. One that is not often looked at was also, the Sharkticons, which all of them were the same and to buy many of them, if people wanted to emulate the idea of an army of Sharkticons in the Movie. That was extremely lazy of Hasbro to implement that idea also. Luckily they did not do that with the Junkions also.
also I would have had the scene where the wounded decepitcons were being jettisoned from Austrotrain, while he was ok with sacrificing Thundercracker, Skywarp and the reflectors, when Starscream was about throw Megatron out, Soundwave tried to stop Stascream but the other decepticons in the shuttle halted him by aiming their weapons at him threating to add him to the scrapmetal pile.
I'd also make sure that Snarl is included with the Dinobots as well. We did see a glimpse of him but throughout the entire film, he was nowhere to be seen. Criminal!
I would have kept it the same as Hasbro in the movie. 1) Thundercracker becomes Scourge. 2) Skywarp becomes Cyclonus. 3) Insecticons become Sweeps. 4) Megatron become Galvatron.
Sourge and cyclonous, have similar amounts of loyalty to Galvatron, which I conclude that bombshell is infact as a sweep, as two insecticons are required to allow cloning. However aspects of both are parts of the sweeps, as they all loyal are loyal to Galvatron. Which the insecticons lack
I REALLY enjoyed this video and revelled in its conclusion; I thought it was gonna be a video on points we've already discussed ad nauseum and left for us to make the final decision as it always has been but you've FINALLY settled my decision for me: Cyclonus was built from the wreckage of both Skywarp AND Bombshell
The whole scene seemed jacked up to me when I first saw it back on VHS. There are 2 Cyclonus characters, people always tried to rationalize it, but for me it was clear it was an animation mistake. So there is no established logic one can take from the character's origin.
in my head Skywarp always made sense as Cyclonus. I also always thought that thundercracker became scourge, while the insectecticons became the sweeps.
Even without official word, there is one more piece of suggestive evidence in favor of SkyWarp: Starscream's 'ghost', his spark hasbeen known to briefly inhabit others. He never tries to inhabit Galvatron, but he DOES pick BOTH Cyclonus and Scourge. Why? It may be that because under their reformatting, they still retain much of the base formatting of Seekers? This might make it EASIER for the 'deceased' Seeker Starscream to inhabit them. Just a thought.
@@gabbpolicarpio1236 Absolutely but there seemed to be more of a choice and a greater amount of comfort in Scourge and Cyclonus. At least that's how I see it. Trepticon (And later Waspinator) were both definite necessity
Let's go back to their reformatting. When Unicron announces "Cyclonus, the warrior", we see both the former Bombshell (in front) and the former Skywarp (behind). But when he says, "and his Armada", we mostly see the former Bombshell, Only. This makes it clear that Bombshell became Armada, therefore Skywarp became Cyclonus.
I vote completely reformatted new characters. If pressed to make a choice between the two, I'd pick Skywarp. Intent of the story was the Armada existing, but was dropped due to budget and/or animation errors. Bombshell, original or clone, possessed the cloning ability to replicate more Armada. A lost opportunity since their always was a fierce rivalry between Cyclonus and Scourge, with both meant to be on equal terms and commanding respective armies of generics. Without the Armada, Cyclonus is at a great disadvantage in their grudge match. Obviously I'm pro Armada, which helps justify all the Cyclonus toys I buy.
I believed the scene with bombshell and skywarp both becoming cyclonus was to show that cyclonus was the best of both worlds from bombshell he got extreme intelligence And from skywarp he got loyalty and great flying skills and that most of the remains from skywarp and some from bombshell which created cyclonus and the leftovers from both skywarp and bombshell were used to create the third sweep so skywarp and bombshell are both cyclonus and a sweep
I like the theory, that Bombshell and Skywarp were melted thogether to make Cyclonus. (I know, that this video is an re-upload, but I didn't see it, so I'm leaving my comment anyway.)
"Cybertron and all it's moons belong to me!" "But remember, we belong to him." After watching this, I think this line supports that unicrons secretly installed slave collars when doing the property flip on the deceptions are so powerful that only the unyielding will of Megatron able to defy him-bombhsell kept it intelligence but lost to his ability to betray his commander . Although actually the third theory makes way more sense than either of those first two, and in fact after you mentioned it, is the only explanation I'd actually heard before in some long distant past conversation I had forgotten, but I remember the dude explaining it with zero doubts, and he was the only person I'd ever met who knew that the comic books existed, let alone had actually read all of them, so-regardless of if the comics factored into his belief that the rest were dead when they were remade-i was convinced that he must be right because he was way more into it than anyone else would admit at the time. Then, like 2 entire decades passed, so I completely forgot that I had already decided on answer to this question...along with who exactly that guy who explained it to me was ... Someone in my freshman year college dorm is all I recall now. Hahaha😂
@@lordfrostnchilled9601 I would rather he be a new character, because I like Skywarp too much to want him dead to have made a new bot, but I think that Cyclonus probably, canonically would be a mix of both Warp and Bombshell.
Team Skywarp. One other sign that the Insecticons survived was in the episode "Fight Or Flee". There is an animation error in which either Soundwave or Long Haul is shown speaking, but it is clearly Shrapnel's voice.
You think Thundercracker and Bombshell take turns as Cyclonus just to get time away from Galvatron's brow beating or just to eff with him? It might explain why Galvatron is so frustrated and angry with them if "Cyclonus'" behavior constantly changes and he keeps "forgetting" what Galvatron told him earlier.
Maybe the animators at that time thought that having another Cyclonus isn’t such a good idea what they should’ve done with this they should have put Skywarp with Thundercracker and the two Insecticons on the right side that way it will show us how all four them became The Sweeps in the film itself.
Honestly I think it would be Skywarp purely because he is a more prominent character, have the two seekers become the ones in charge of the sweeps while the insecticons become the sweeps. Either that or the third option hoestly.
Even as a kid I figured that Unicron just kinda recycled the parts to make new minions and that even Galvatron didn't completely remember all of his Megatron memories.
I really love your videos. I'm new on Transformers and God I was introduced with Michael Bay as a kid somebody help me! So I hated the franchise because I thought was boring, however this recent month they introduced me to Transformers the original one and I'm enjoying it. For me it's make sence will be Skywarp I'm with you, but also the idea to mix 2 decepticons in one is actually lovely, the thing is I will miss these 2 seekers.
I personally believe he is Skywarp as he is a more loyal character than Bombshell and also because of the fact that Skywarp has always been one of my favourite seekers in the G1 show
10:04 The would explain why Scourge has a beard. He was was suppose resemble one of the older “heroes”. Maybe like an decepticon version of Alpha Trion?
I know this video was 2 years ago but I still want to put my belief out there and I go with skywarp. How would an insecticon(not saying he can't) adapt to a whole new form like a jet or some aerial modification. Skywarp is the only one who is more prone to knowing exactly how it feels to be in this type of alt mode and I'm sure he'd adapt way faster if not almost immediately to his new space jet mode.
I personally like how IDW made Cyclonus, Scourge and Galvatron be separated diferente characters from the ones they were supposed to be, this helps to add more originality to the characters rather than just being evolved decepticons
I like him being Skywarp. It's not who we see, but considering everyone kind of becomes a drones, I like to believe that all their sparks were kind of combined with Skywarp's mind being the leader of that almalgamation, with the sweeps being just that, sweeps and drones.
Here's a question for the possible next discussion, when the autobots and decepticons scan vehicle modes, their colors of the original vehicles aren't on the autobots or decepticons, this even expanded to the live action bumblebee movie and 2015 robots in disguise
In the cartoon I remember seeing an army of Cyclonus behind him. That in concert with the fact Cyclonus is far more intelligent than Skywarp leads me to believe he is Skywarp with the capability, cloning and intelligence of bombshell.
Just before I get into this. I'm just gonna guess that it's probably Skywarp, just that both he and Cyclonus are seekers so it makes more sense. Also, when Unicron turns them both into lookalikes, Skywarp is the Cyclonus at the front, while Bombshell is the Cyclonus at the back, so I'm gonna assume that Skywarp/Cyclonus is the one we're looking for considering Unicron put him in front of the others (or am I getting confused with Thundercracker/Scourge?). And just a personal look at, Skywarp was the more popular of the two so it makes sense to make the old popular character a new popular character.
I believe that Cyclonus is a new character with Skywarp's attributes in the same way that Orion Pax was rebuilt or upgraded to be Optimus Prime. He still retained some of Orion Pax's attributes but was "new" or actually reborn. The same can be said of Cyclonus. He is Skywarp who has been given a new life.
As a G1 is, it was full of animation errors and downplay to promote other bots. The picture you showed when all of them was floating near Unicron had Bombshell to the utmost right and Skywarp next to him, but during body change that was swapped. So to keep physics even in space the bot showned changing into Cyclonus would be Skywarp, not Bombshell. Another fact that is easilly forgotten is that Skywarp wasnt dumb, he just lacked motivation for the war and just wanted to be on the side with the bigger guns. What if his teleportation ability was damaged almost beyond repair, but he became better motivated instead?
EclipseWarlord a cowards easy ticket away from a fight is to leave it. In Skywarps case what had he to earn to stay and fight for a cause he didnt fully believe in? As Cyclonus his new master Galvatron could have been seen through Skywarps eyes as a new chance with a much stronger force and a sure way ro be on the winning side, and being the 2nd in command could keep his focus from wandering away and pranking his fellow soldiers. Just my own theory
zilvertron Of the Seekers, Skywarp was the most loyal to Megatron, while Starscream was the most loyal to the Deception cause. Thundercracker was just there. I never saw Skywarp as a coward. He may have used some tactics that would be considered cowardly, but his teleportation powers were underused.
zilvertron, you are not looking at the perspective right. Bombshell is on the right as you're looking AT Unicron, but when they are reformatted, he is on the left, looking AWAY from Unicron, so their positioning is correct. It's Bombshell that is reformatted into Cyclonus. The positioning at the forefront is also a dead giveaway.
I prefer the theory that both were fused, the combination Skywarp's skills and loyalty, plus Bombshell's intelligence creates a terrifying new commander.
Even if we look at their personalities Skywarp always made more sense, in fact we can say that while Scourge and Cyclonus were still vastly different some aspects of Thundercracker's and Skywarp's personalities carried on. According to Thunfercracker's bio he is an arrogant guy same for Scourge while Skywarp is said to be blindly loyal to Megatron, like Cyclonus is with Galvatron. Bombshell just doesn't make sense to be Cyclonus, really don't get how can someone think like it works
Hmm I'm unsure. I can see it from both sides and personally speaking I didn't like Bombshell or Skywarp. So I've got no personal stake. Soundwave was my favourite Decepticon so I suppose given a jet is much closer to a Space Fighter than a bug is....I suppose I'll stab for it being Skywarp but honestly I don't think it matters. I think Cyclonus may have been a new personality that may have shared with Skywarp or Bombshell and was the dominant personality. If we could have seen inside Cyclonus' head we'd likely see a bit of a personality thing like we did with the Vehicon generals from Beast Machines and now I'm going to shut up because I've probably said something stupid without knowing.
The continued sales of all 3 standard Insecticons and all 4 Deluxe Insecticons in the G1 Wave 3 toys could mean that they were not intended to be the basis of the Armada or the Sweeps. Insecticon clones make more sense. However, the absence of the toys for Skywarp and Thundercracker points toward both of them having been reformatted.
Even when i was young and first saw this movie, i always felt skywarp was the real cyclonus and bombshell was the clone , made more sense to me F-15- Space fighter, cause cyclonus was a good flyer and so was skywarp.
Yes I believe it was both by watching it over and over again. Skywarp wasn’t the brightest and never had leadership martial besides having a moment with trying to fight his own in the absence of Megatron and the so called traitor Starscream who was with the human doctor in one of the G1 episodes. Bombshell had leadership skills, so I guess they combined them together to make a stronger second in command.
I like the idea they're both combined, but because of Skywarps loyalty, his mind was used with a little intelligent upgrade from Bombshell. So Cyclonus is the best of both, to be the ideal secont in command.
To me, he was always Skywarp. It just made sense: of the original three seekers, Starscream ranked #1, and Skywarp and Thundercracker seemed to be #2 and #3 respectively. Despite the storyboards, making Bombshell into a fully loyal second-in-command felt like clumsy laziness, like someone had skipped a page of the series bible or something. Also, I never bought the theory that the tossed Deceptions were all dead, when we just saw them alive mere moments ago onboard Astrotrain. Sure they were weak and beaten, but they don't need to breathe in space, and I find it hard to believe they all just happened to die at the same time in the span of probably a few minutes. Now as to just who or what Cyclonus's "armada" is supposed to be, that's a whole other can of worms. My headcannon is that Bombshell became another Sweep.
When you consider that the Insecticons are seen to still be alive (in and of itself a sort of retcon moment, considering that closeup of Kickback's head being run over in the movie) RodimusPrimal's theory is the most sound. That said, considering the personalities of the seeker jets, it really ought to be Skywarp becoming Scourge (flying ace, loyal to the death, not the brightest) and Thundercracker becoming Cyclonus (Thundercracker canon says he is the only Decepticon who feels guilty for picking on the humans; Cyclonus takes Galvatron to therapy...). Oh well.
TFCON LA had some of the creators of the movie as special guests. One of them said the intention was always for Cyclonus to be built from Skywarp. So it's official now.
I disagree
I always believed that
@@CIIncProds what...that cyclonus was made from skywarps body
Yes
@@CIIncProds well he wasn't...he was made from bombshells body...cause bombshells body was in front of skywarp before begin changed...same with thundercracker...his dead body was in the middle
Skywarp and Thundercracker were of higher rank than the lowly Insecticons. Megatron looked at the Insecticons as annoying pests. So it makes sense that the Insecticons became The Sweeps.
Skywarp became Cyclonus.
Thundercracker became Scourge while the Insecticons become The Sweeps.
If it were up to me, Reflector should have become Cyclonus’ Armada.
Agree. Reflector trio are loyal as well.
make a lot of sense to me
I thought Insecticon Bombshell became Cyclonus.
I agree with this theory on Thundercracker, and Skywarp becoming Scorge, and Cyclonus. I'm a HUGE G1 fan, and I still love that series more than the new Movies today. Actually I only seen the 1st. I just could not follow 🤷🏾♂️
I agree. That'd make more sense for Skywarp instead of Bombshell to becoming Cyclonus.
Actually, at TFCON 2019, I asked the animator who was Cyclonus and he confirmed that it was Skywarp. So that means your theory was right.
I knew it.
So what was his explanation for the second Cyclonus, and for Skywarp being in the background and Bombshell in the main position of the frame?
The animators made so many mistakes that I would NOT take their word for it...
He didn’t think up the story, did he? Skyward is too dumb to be cyclonus
Than why was Bombshell in the front and acted as if he was Cyclonus?
It would really make more sence if Cyclonus was once Skywarp. Then, the Season 3 Ghost Starscream Episodes would make sence. Starscream possesed both Cyclonus and Scourge, who once were Skywarp and Thundercracker, his seeker comrades and same bodytype. This would be a nice easter egg.
sense*
It also makes sense since Starscream was their former commander. Why posses someone you don't know. Starscream wouldn't know Bombshell too well, so Skywarp seems more likely.
@@BLKBRDSR71 possess*
@@BLKBRDSR71 Why no memory of former self? Starscream possessed Astrotrain, A Sweep and Trypticon (He wouldn't know him that well)
very Logical and makes sense so yeah
I personally believe it’s Skywarp because while yes he isn’t as intelligent as bombshell and Cyclonus, remember Unicorn upgraded their bodies meaning he could have gotten smarter.
That also means Unicron could have altered Bombshell's loyalty to Galvatron but that doesn't matter since Cyclonus was confirmed to having been Skywarp.
Bro, Bombshell has guts and brains, He’s an insecticon!
Also the ridiculously inconsistent number of Sweeps in Season 3 fits with the Insecticons' cloning abilities. They can actively 'reproduce' when it's required of them.
For me skywarp is cyclonus because it is more appropriate for bombshell and the other insecticons to be the sweeps and Thundercracker and skywarp are always close like scourge and cyclonus but thats my opinion
A better reason, the Insecticons possessed the ability to multiple by creating clones. The Sweeps had the same ability. That´s the reason their number is increasing during the Movie and season 3.
But neither Cyclonus or Scourge seemed to possess that ability.
With that logic then Scourge is Kickback. But Thundercracker is in the front right? Where is Bombshell? Also when Unicron said Cyclonus The Warrior the Cyclonus that was Bombshell Transformed and the Cyclonus that was Skywarp Transformed after he said and his Armada. More proof that your theory is wrong. Unicron rebuilt and reformated them. So explain to me what is reformatting? I'll tell you give a new format to; revise or represent in another format. Case closed Cyclonus was Bombshell
Yes I believe Cyclonus is Skywarp with the intelligence of Bombshell,seems the most "Logical" to me.
Actually skywarp has been confirmed to be scourge
If Shockwave said it, then well it is true.
Decades before your work, I always understood that Thundercracker became Scourge and Skywarp became Cyclonous. And yes, the Sweeps were made from Insecticon clones, as we can see Bombshell, Kickback, and Shrapnel persist. Well done.
Thanks!
Ok
The fact that the sweeps seemingly reproduce would also back the theory that they're remade from the insecticons and share that trait.
I like to think that Skywarp and Thundercracker became Cyclonus and Scourge. Then Unicron turned the insecticons into the sweeps because they were left over.
I always decided it was Skywarp only because it made sense to make both jets into the leaders of the Sweeps and Armada. Not the most logical or well reasoned argument but I like it
Perfectly sensible. Insecticons were each one of many of a swarm. Skywarp and Thundercracker were somewhat unique like Starscream, and presumably comparably powerful and competent. It was always strange to me that Starscream was treated on a higher level from his two "brothers". The Unicron transformations gave the other two their due significance as Cyclonus and Scourge. It makes no sense for a lowly insecticon to be one of those two.
I like to think the purple jet turns into the purple spaceship and the one with shell in his name turns into the shellformer
Bombshell became a sweep and skywarp became Cyclones
My vote is for Skywarp. Though I think a Frankenstein of both of them, with the mind of a new deception kind of makes sense.
Personally, As a kid, I figured the Decepticons were dead and Unicron made their bodies into new loyal capable warriors. They are so far removed from their original counterparts that they were never the original guys to me.
That was my thinking as well. Sort of like Good looking Unicron Zombies of the classical sense.
They certainly are far removed. Their programming is very different. In Beast Machines, Tankor, Thrust, and Jetstorm behave completely different than Rhinox, Waspinator, and Silverbolt respectively, though they do remember what they did once the real them came out.
RodimusPrimal
I always did like Waspinator. Still wondering how he ended up on Cybertron since he was left behind on Earth as the only functional Cybertronian.
RodimusPrimal the reprogramming theory is good as well but Beast Wars/ Beast Machines had better continuity than G1. G1 never explained anything and that's why we're having videos like this.
EclipseWarlord My best guess is he left Earth and flew through space on his own flight power alone. With his quote "took forever, but was worth it" I think it took millions of years for him to get to Cybertron, meaning that when he got there, Cybertron was well into the time period he came from
One thing I don’t think anybody has mentioned was the fact that there was almost a Megatron/Skywarp triple changer at one point in G1. This shows that the people at Hasbro/Takara had more interest in him than people give him credit for.
To reinforce that Cyclonus is Skywarp is that he has some sort of relation to Scourge, like how Skywarp was a close friend to Thundercracker.
Great video! This was always one of my favorites! As for what I think, I say Cyclonus was Skywarp as the Insecticons can clone themselves, hence them being all the Sweeps and "the armada."
Btw, in the Animated timeline it is implied that Cyclonus is a version of Skywarp from the future, as Scalpel takes note that Cyclonus shares specs with Skywarp.
I love how scourge threw the bot into the glass and cyclonus just goes "well everyone has to be somewhere" and when scourge starts shooting the others cyclonus just chills out and casually walks up to the input interface
They were badass Decepticons for sure.
Yet Galvatron still beat on both of them.
I always thought he was skywarp because they both transform into jets
I've always had a love/hate relationship with the movie. Most of the hate coming from the lack of respect the writers had for our beloved Cybertronians. (I'll go into their heartlessly killing Prowl another time.) As you, Rod Prime, have oft stated, their primary goal was to SELL TOYS. Meaning pesky things like continuity didn't matter.
If they'd taken five minutes to think about things, they'd have realized how much sense it makes for the loyal Skywarp to be reformatted as Cyclonus, and more, purposely animated him BECOMING that bot! Also makes sense the replicating Insecticons becoming the multiplying Sweeps. Case closed.
And, hey, if they wanted to sell toys so badly, why didn't they market GENERIC Sweeps so kids could make sure Scourge had his "armada" when playing with their TFs?
A (hungry) planetful of lost and missed opportunities. 🤔
I feel the same about the movie. If they wanted to sell lore toys, just use them as new characters in new episodes, just introduce them, not kill everyone we know. ;_; Maybe Megatron wanted to update his armor to be stronger and to be called Galvatron.
@@miiirky1904 I second that. While there was much great about the movie, killing Prime and the other Autobots was just so dumb. He should have survived, heavily damaged maybe, but alive.
@@warlordsquerk5338 They we’re killed because they’re toys were discontinued.
@@tfan2222 I know. They not only died which was stupid, the reason they died was even more so. What terrible writing
The Killing of Optimus Prime is a cautionary tale: Take care of your beloved fictional characters. While there are benefits in killing Prime in terms of story telling, the reality is that Hasbro got rid of him just to make way to sell new toys (I feel like Dinobot’s death in Beast Wars was handled a bit better imo). Imagine if Lucasfilm made a Star Wars sequel Trilogy and carelessly got rid of the old cast just to make way for new characters we barely know or care about. Oh wait…
It makes sense that the Insecticons all became sweeps. They retained their ability to clone themselves.
Also transformers being "dead", doesn't mean all that much. It was shown multiple times that dead transformers could be reactivated, and would retain their previous personalities. The movie clearly did not show parts of dead decepticons being recombined. Individual damaged decepticons became individual new/improved ones.
I used to think it was both of them, but now I think it's Skywarp since some of his personality is with Cyclonus
LOL
I agree, although I do think that a little bit of Bombshell made it into Cyclonus. That would explain his heightened intelligence and his ability to clone himself.
He said he was skywarp in a future episode when he in a decitcon crypt And runs into a statue of himself
@@playmakersradio7838 Really? If that's true then that's that for this.
@@playmakersradio7838 He never said that. I'm watching that episode (Starscream ghost) which is the episode that shows Skywarp crypt.
Man, you’ve taken a QUATUM LEAP in your editing! Freaking RAD my dude!
I kind of like the idea that Skywarp is Cyclonus. With Thundercracker being Scourge it's pretty fitting for 2 of the 3 main seekers to become remade after Starscream (1 of the 3) fucks them over.
I have always thought cyclonus was a combination of the two skywarp and bombshell. The two merged to become the ultimate second in command loyal and smart
@Transcendent Cthulhu I all was thought the sweeps were insecticon clones and scourge was thundercraker
I just thought they all were digitized and their blueprint was used to from the upgraded froms only galvatron being the one that got upgraded
I like this theory since Cyclonus had the characteristics of intelligence, and leadership from bombshell. Loyalty from Skywarp.
Script from the movie said, Cyclonus was a new decepticon which was build with the parts from the two
As I told you on your original video my friend, I am on your side, Cyclonus was Skywarp and the sweeps were insecticons. It would make sense Skywarp and Thndercracker, Megatron´s original air attack team became the leaders for Galvatron´s new squad.
How so?
Thundercracker commands the Sweeps as Scourge
I agree with you! Megatron became Galvatron, Thundercracker became Scourge, and the three Insecticons, including Bombshell became Sweeps.
RE: Skywarp:
Remember in the G1 cartoon episode when Megatron dug that crystal out of the South American pyramid, and then summoned Skywarp to fight, and Starscream said, "How dare you demote me to guard-duty, Megatron!"
And Skywarp said (?) "Have fun playing crystal, NERDscreamer. Bye-eeee." And he transformed and flew off.
That moment when he said 'bye', was so great. His voice sounded so metallic, and yet was so inflected with so much smart-assness. He sounded like a robot to have that much computer effect IN his voice, but achieved that level of smart-assness in the same voice. Because of the degree of smart-assness, his voice seemed like it was coming from a real living being, not a synthesizer in a studio. It was captured so well. That moment is one of my favorite moments in visual entertainment from all time. And I'm over 45 years old.
I Am more towards that Cyclonus is a new Character. I also believe that He inherited the traits of Both Bombshell, and Skywarp. Combining The intelligence of Bombshell, with Skywarp's Loyalty and Jet form could be interestind. Plus I prefer a combination of character's traits into a new character
To me, Skywarp becaome Cyclonus, and bombshell instead of the Armada, was meant to be the third sweep as seen in the movie, and the rest of season three.
Excellent analysis. I would definitely favor the argument that Cyclonus was Skywarp mostly because we did see all the Insecticons later on.
It always made more sense to me Cyclonus is Skywarp. I just felt that when you didn't see the Armada Cyclonus after that one scene and then Scourge and now 3 sweeps instead of 2 that maybe the animators thought Bombshell should be a Sweep too and just have them all be made from cloned Insecticons. You do see the all 3 Insecticons later in season 3 and the Sweeps seem to always grow in numbers. But, it's whatever you want it to be.
I always thought it was Skywarp. Since the Seekers were always high-ranking, being directly under Megatron, and maybe Soundwave and Shockwave, it makes sense for the loyal lieutenants to maintain their positions. As for the so-called "Armada", I thought that was Unicron's way of saying that Scourge and the Sweeps were subservient to Cyclonus, since "Warrior" sounds higher-ranking than "Tracker", and immediately after saying "and his armada", we see the whole fleet of new Decepticons assembled together. As for there being two of the same Cyclonus character model, I chalk it up to an animation error. Afterall, we see Ironhide attacking Autobot City on the side of the Decepticons, Rumble and Frenzy both appear as black and red when attacking Blaster's tower, and Snarl keeps popping in and out of the film.
That being the case, why would Scourge allow Starscream to inhabit him, when he was trying to get his own body? Wouldn't Scourge have memory of Starscream not sticking up for him when he was tossed from Astrotrain?
I know I'm late to this, but I'm on the Skywarp side. You bring up some good points that lean towards Skywarp, with Bombshell clone parts mixed in, and we do see aspects of Skywarp in Cyclonus's personality in the G1 cartoon in Season 3, so for me, I'm on Skywarp side
I've always felt that it was Skywarp. It fit the most. He was the most loyal and his loyalty carried over.
I like the info that he gives and I agree with him that Cyclonus was once Skywarp (my favorite of the seekers)
12:49 to add to that point, cyclonus is even seen running over some of the insecticons when landing during the coronation scene (a teal thundercracker is also there, but with the seekers having 5 billion repaints in the show, that could've been anyone)
To me, he's Skywarp given an upgrade. The bugs became Sweeps and any leftovers became semi-sentient.
I have always thought the simplest answer was Thudercracker and Bombshell became the two main characters since they were in the forefront. This is the first time I heard a version where they could be a mish mesh of dead Decepticons. Seems like they made Scourge unique enough to not have an argument of who he was. The mish mesh theory could explain it better as far as Cyclonus is concerned since it seems like that would best explain his loyalty like Skywarp and smarts like Bombshell. Maybe he is a 50/50 combination of them.
I think it makes more sense that Cyclonus was created from the combination of both Bombshell and Skywarp. Skywarp was never considered to be a very intelligent character when compared to a Decepticon like Cyclonus. So having been created from a combination of the highly intelligent Bombshell and the faster, more courageous and loyal Skywarp makes the most sense for the character's origin and backstory.
I still believe that Skywarp was transformed into Cyclonus.
Me too
I agree
Of course, obviously skywarp is cyclonus, while bombshell is "and his armada"
I'd like to see a person do a tiny edit where you see both Cyclonus forming, but then Bombshell's comes apart before completion, parts bonding to Skywarp. All in all, I'd have liked to see more "robot guts" all floating around and being drawn together with all of them.
For me, the more acceptable theory is "Cyclonus was remodeled from Skywarp". Tranformers: the movie was an 80's cartoon and there was so many flaws in creating drawings then. The technology was very limited that time. Images are done manually by animators. Errors are likely to happened.
Team skywarp
This is not that kind of thing. Stop drawing battle lines over pure miscellany.
My question is....Why are there 3 Scourge sweeps on season 3? If I remember, Unicron made only 2 sweeps for Scourge and 1 Armada for Cyclonus. Then, on the season 3, the Cyclonus Armada desappears and Another Scourge Sweep appears, (O-o),with this theory on my head I have this....
3 Sweeps= The 3 Insecticons.....
Cyclonus=Skywarp
Scourge= Thundercracker......
In short.....I'M TEAM SKYWARP.
It's like Unicron put together Skywarps loyalty to Megatron and the intelligence of bombshell.
I like to think he's Skywarp (mostly, he's not 100% Skywarp) because, the insecticon cloning powers makes sence for the Sweeps.
I don't think it would be accurate to say Cyclonus is Bombshell at all, since the Insecticons survive the movie due to there swarm of clones. So the sweeps/Cyclonus aren't rebuilt versions of Shrapnel, Kickback, and Bombshell, but rather they're rebuilt versions of Zaptrap, Shothole, and Salvo, the Insecticons respective clones.
That isn't to say that Cyclonus isn't, in part, made from insecticon parts. I suspect Scourge has a similar mix of Seeker and Insecticon.
Animation errors explain that, not that Cyclonus can clone himself.
Brilliant with the insecticon cloning!!! Makes sense as Armada is a literal clone of Cyclonus...35 years later, never thought of that! THAT'S AWESOME FRIENDO 🙂🙂🤩
The idea that cyclonus is a Frankenstein hybrid of bombshell and skywarp is vastly more interesting
My pet theory (formed circa 1986-87):
Megatron's body & life spark --> Galvatron
Skywarp's body --> Cyclonus
Bombshell clone body --> Cyclonus' "Armada" (destroyed in battle later on during Transformers: The Movie)
Thundercracker --> Scourge
Shrapnel clone body --> Sweep #1
Kickback clone body --> Sweep #2
Other insecticon clones and/or Unicron's scrap metal collection --> any and all other Sweeps
Shockwave --> destroyed while heroically defending Cybertron from Unicron
If I could go back in time and re write that part of the movie this is how I would do it. 1.) The Decepticons that get thrown out of Astrotrain would have been Megatron, Thundercracker, Skywarp, and the three reflector guys. Not the insecticons. 2.) Skywarp would have been turned into Cyclonus, Reflector would have been three Sweeps and Thundercracker would have been Scourge, although Not a sweep lookalike. I would have had Scourge look like a jet not a hovercraft. I never understood why Hasbro, trying to sell toys, made 4 guys all look the same and only market one of them. Seems like a wasted opportunity for another toy.
rogue9ine My retcon or alternate timeline for Transformers The Movie are as follows: 1) Same as you except not Reflector, but the Insecticons with 4 members, instead of 3. The fourth member was part of the group, but stayed on Cybertron, so no Insect mode, but a flying craft mode.
2) Megatron turns to Galvatron, Skywarp to Cyclonus, Thundercracker to Scourge, and now the Insecticons would turn into the Deluxe Insecticons in this order, Shrapnel to Chopshop, Kickback to Ransack, Bombshell to Barrage and the 4th member to Venom. The Sweeps I probably would not have created and the Deluxe Insecticons would be able to use cloning, like the originals.
Hasbro came up with the stupid idea in regards to Transformers the Movie, that if anyone wanted the Sweeps then people should buy more Scourge toys. They presumably intended that Cyclonus's Armada was going to be just a bunch of Cyclonus look alikes and for people to just buy more Cyclonus toys. One that is not often looked at was also, the Sharkticons, which all of them were the same and to buy many of them, if people wanted to emulate the idea of an army of Sharkticons in the Movie. That was extremely lazy of Hasbro to implement that idea also. Luckily they did not do that with the Junkions also.
also I would have had the scene where the wounded decepitcons were being jettisoned from Austrotrain, while he was ok with sacrificing Thundercracker, Skywarp and the reflectors, when Starscream was about throw Megatron out, Soundwave tried to stop Stascream but the other decepticons in the shuttle halted him by aiming their weapons at him threating to add him to the scrapmetal pile.
I'd also make sure that Snarl is included with the Dinobots as well. We did see a glimpse of him but throughout the entire film, he was nowhere to be seen. Criminal!
I would have kept it the same as Hasbro in the movie. 1) Thundercracker becomes Scourge. 2) Skywarp becomes Cyclonus. 3) Insecticons become Sweeps. 4) Megatron become Galvatron.
Space boat go brrr
Sourge and cyclonous, have similar amounts of loyalty to Galvatron, which I conclude that bombshell is infact as a sweep, as two insecticons are required to allow cloning. However aspects of both are parts of the sweeps, as they all loyal are loyal to Galvatron. Which the insecticons lack
I REALLY enjoyed this video and revelled in its conclusion; I thought it was gonna be a video on points we've already discussed ad nauseum and left for us to make the final decision as it always has been but you've FINALLY settled my decision for me: Cyclonus was built from the wreckage of both Skywarp AND Bombshell
And leftover parts made a third Sweep!
The whole scene seemed jacked up to me when I first saw it back on VHS.
There are 2 Cyclonus characters, people always tried to rationalize it, but for me it was clear it was an animation mistake. So there is no established logic one can take from the character's origin.
yeah, people were saying the 2nd Cyclonus was a dyecast clone, because the toys were including tiny rubber figurines called clones
in my head Skywarp always made sense as Cyclonus. I also always thought that thundercracker became scourge, while the insectecticons became the sweeps.
Even without official word, there is one more piece of suggestive evidence in favor of SkyWarp: Starscream's 'ghost', his spark hasbeen known to briefly inhabit others. He never tries to inhabit Galvatron, but he DOES pick BOTH Cyclonus and Scourge. Why? It may be that because under their reformatting, they still retain much of the base formatting of Seekers? This might make it EASIER for the 'deceased' Seeker Starscream to inhabit them. Just a thought.
Very good and observant point!
A very interesting thought at that
U do know that Trypticon and Astrotrain were also possessed by the ghost (aka mutant spark) of Starscream, right?
@@gabbpolicarpio1236 Absolutely but there seemed to be more of a choice and a greater amount of comfort in Scourge and Cyclonus. At least that's how I see it. Trepticon (And later Waspinator) were both definite necessity
Let's go back to their reformatting. When Unicron announces "Cyclonus, the warrior", we see both the former Bombshell (in front) and the former Skywarp (behind).
But when he says, "and his Armada", we mostly see the former Bombshell, Only.
This makes it clear that Bombshell became Armada, therefore Skywarp became Cyclonus.
Unicron trilogy cyclonus becomes g1 cyclonus
100% team unicron trilogy cyclonus being g1 cyclonus
I see it being bombshell too
I vote completely reformatted new characters. If pressed to make a choice between the two, I'd pick Skywarp. Intent of the story was the Armada existing, but was dropped due to budget and/or animation errors. Bombshell, original or clone, possessed the cloning ability to replicate more Armada. A lost opportunity since their always was a fierce rivalry between Cyclonus and Scourge, with both meant to be on equal terms and commanding respective armies of generics. Without the Armada, Cyclonus is at a great disadvantage in their grudge match. Obviously I'm pro Armada, which helps justify all the Cyclonus toys I buy.
I must have static in my rectifiers now that’s the smartest thing you’ve said all day! Wait really? Hey what’s going on??!!!
Skywarp since the Sweeps’ cloning abilities most likely came from the Insecticons while Thundercracker became Scourge.
I believed the scene with bombshell and skywarp both becoming cyclonus was to show that cyclonus was the best of both worlds from bombshell he got extreme intelligence And from skywarp he got loyalty and great flying skills and that most of the remains from skywarp and some from bombshell which created cyclonus and the leftovers from both skywarp and bombshell were used to create the third sweep so skywarp and bombshell are both cyclonus and a sweep
I like the theory, that Bombshell and Skywarp were melted thogether to make Cyclonus. (I know, that this video is an re-upload, but I didn't see it, so I'm leaving my comment anyway.)
Actually the scene had Bombshell and Skywarp change into 2 Cyclonuses. Then that was reduced to one.
I believe that Cyclonus is infact Skywarp, not Bombshell.
Definitely Skywarp. Great video!
Why
"Cybertron and all it's moons belong to me!"
"But remember, we belong to him."
After watching this, I think this line supports that unicrons secretly installed slave collars when doing the property flip on the deceptions are so powerful that only the unyielding will of Megatron able to defy him-bombhsell kept it intelligence but lost to his ability to betray his commander .
Although actually the third theory makes way more sense than either of those first two, and in fact after you mentioned it, is the only explanation I'd actually heard before in some long distant past conversation I had forgotten, but I remember the dude explaining it with zero doubts, and he was the only person I'd ever met who knew that the comic books existed, let alone had actually read all of them, so-regardless of if the comics factored into his belief that the rest were dead when they were remade-i was convinced that he must be right because he was way more into it than anyone else would admit at the time.
Then, like 2 entire decades passed, so I completely forgot that I had already decided on answer to this question...along with who exactly that guy who explained it to me was ... Someone in my freshman year college dorm is all I recall now. Hahaha😂
Skywarp with Bombshell mixed in.
Personally, I think he's just a new character.
Thats what i said 3 months later
I’d like to think that too. Skwarp with some of Bombshell’s body parts.
Yeah. Maybe he recieved Bombshell's intelligence that way.
@@lordfrostnchilled9601 I would rather he be a new character, because I like Skywarp too much to want him dead to have made a new bot, but I think that Cyclonus probably, canonically would be a mix of both Warp and Bombshell.
Team Skywarp. One other sign that the Insecticons survived was in the episode "Fight Or Flee". There is an animation error in which either Soundwave or Long Haul is shown speaking, but it is clearly Shrapnel's voice.
Call Of the Primitives is one of the best G1 series of all time.
You think Thundercracker and Bombshell take turns as Cyclonus just to get time away from Galvatron's brow beating or just to eff with him? It might explain why Galvatron is so frustrated and angry with them if "Cyclonus'" behavior constantly changes and he keeps "forgetting" what Galvatron told him earlier.
Skywarp side al the way for everything you said. Though I can see the Bombshell side.
Maybe the animators at that time thought that having another Cyclonus isn’t such a good idea what they should’ve done with this they should have put Skywarp with Thundercracker and the two Insecticons on the right side that way it will show us how all four them became The Sweeps in the film itself.
The giant planet eating planet transformer, that's a mouth full, almost a planets worth lol.
It's a dang good way of describing Unicron
RodimusPrimal
It sure is haha
Honestly I think it would be Skywarp purely because he is a more prominent character, have the two seekers become the ones in charge of the sweeps while the insecticons become the sweeps.
Either that or the third option hoestly.
very interesting idea. Your concept has merit.
Even as a kid I figured that Unicron just kinda recycled the parts to make new minions and that even Galvatron didn't completely remember all of his Megatron memories.
I really love your videos.
I'm new on Transformers and God I was introduced with Michael Bay as a kid somebody help me! So I hated the franchise because I thought was boring, however this recent month they introduced me to Transformers the original one and I'm enjoying it.
For me it's make sence will be Skywarp I'm with you, but also the idea to mix 2 decepticons in one is actually lovely, the thing is I will miss these 2 seekers.
Watch H1 and then Beast Wars first.
Seriously this has bugged me ever since I saw the movie in theater as a kid. Great perspective on this!
Thanks!
I personally believe he is Skywarp as he is a more loyal character than Bombshell and also because of the fact that Skywarp has always been one of my favourite seekers in the G1 show
10:04 The would explain why Scourge has a beard. He was was suppose resemble one of the older “heroes”. Maybe like an decepticon version of Alpha Trion?
Unicron put his likeness in all the recreated Decepticons, if you noticed, Galvatron had a goatee
I know this video was 2 years ago but I still want to put my belief out there and I go with skywarp. How would an insecticon(not saying he can't) adapt to a whole new form like a jet or some aerial modification. Skywarp is the only one who is more prone to knowing exactly how it feels to be in this type of alt mode and I'm sure he'd adapt way faster if not almost immediately to his new space jet mode.
I personally like how IDW made Cyclonus, Scourge and Galvatron be separated diferente characters from the ones they were supposed to be, this helps to add more originality to the characters rather than just being evolved decepticons
I always saw cyclonus as skywarp
I like him being Skywarp. It's not who we see, but considering everyone kind of becomes a drones, I like to believe that all their sparks were kind of combined with Skywarp's mind being the leader of that almalgamation, with the sweeps being just that, sweeps and drones.
What if cyclonus is skywarps loyalty and bombshells intelligence fused into one transformer
Here's a question for the possible next discussion, when the autobots and decepticons scan vehicle modes, their colors of the original vehicles aren't on the autobots or decepticons, this even expanded to the live action bumblebee movie and 2015 robots in disguise
No matter what I use the theory that the seekers became Scourge and Cyclonus...and Im sticking to it lol
In the cartoon I remember seeing an army of Cyclonus behind him. That in concert with the fact Cyclonus is far more intelligent than Skywarp leads me to believe he is Skywarp with the capability, cloning and intelligence of bombshell.
Just before I get into this. I'm just gonna guess that it's probably Skywarp, just that both he and Cyclonus are seekers so it makes more sense. Also, when Unicron turns them both into lookalikes, Skywarp is the Cyclonus at the front, while Bombshell is the Cyclonus at the back, so I'm gonna assume that Skywarp/Cyclonus is the one we're looking for considering Unicron put him in front of the others (or am I getting confused with Thundercracker/Scourge?). And just a personal look at, Skywarp was the more popular of the two so it makes sense to make the old popular character a new popular character.
I believe that Cyclonus is a new character with Skywarp's attributes in the same way that Orion Pax was rebuilt or upgraded to be Optimus Prime. He still retained some of Orion Pax's attributes but was "new" or actually reborn. The same can be said of Cyclonus. He is Skywarp who has been given a new life.
I think it would make since for the insecticons to become sweeps since both the insecticons and sweeps can duplicate
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As a G1 is, it was full of animation errors and downplay to promote other bots.
The picture you showed when all of them was floating near Unicron had Bombshell to the utmost right and Skywarp next to him, but during body change that was swapped. So to keep physics even in space the bot showned changing into Cyclonus would be Skywarp, not Bombshell.
Another fact that is easilly forgotten is that Skywarp wasnt dumb, he just lacked motivation for the war and just wanted to be on the side with the bigger guns. What if his teleportation ability was damaged almost beyond repair, but he became better motivated instead?
zilvertron
I like that. Motivation due to no teleportation.
EclipseWarlord a cowards easy ticket away from a fight is to leave it. In Skywarps case what had he to earn to stay and fight for a cause he didnt fully believe in? As Cyclonus his new master Galvatron could have been seen through Skywarps eyes as a new chance with a much stronger force and a sure way ro be on the winning side, and being the 2nd in command could keep his focus from wandering away and pranking his fellow soldiers. Just my own theory
zilvertron
Of the Seekers, Skywarp was the most loyal to Megatron, while Starscream was the most loyal to the Deception cause. Thundercracker was just there. I never saw Skywarp as a coward. He may have used some tactics that would be considered cowardly, but his teleportation powers were underused.
zilvertron, you are not looking at the perspective right. Bombshell is on the right as you're looking AT Unicron, but when they are reformatted, he is on the left, looking AWAY from Unicron, so their positioning is correct. It's Bombshell that is reformatted into Cyclonus. The positioning at the forefront is also a dead giveaway.
I prefer the theory that both were fused, the combination Skywarp's skills and loyalty, plus Bombshell's intelligence creates a terrifying new commander.
Even if we look at their personalities Skywarp always made more sense, in fact we can say that while Scourge and Cyclonus were still vastly different some aspects of Thundercracker's and Skywarp's personalities carried on. According to Thunfercracker's bio he is an arrogant guy same for Scourge while Skywarp is said to be blindly loyal to Megatron, like Cyclonus is with Galvatron. Bombshell just doesn't make sense to be Cyclonus, really don't get how can someone think like it works
The combined theory; it's the easiest to swallow, though I'm leaning towards the Skywarp side as well.
Hmm I'm unsure. I can see it from both sides and personally speaking I didn't like Bombshell or Skywarp. So I've got no personal stake. Soundwave was my favourite Decepticon so I suppose given a jet is much closer to a Space Fighter than a bug is....I suppose I'll stab for it being Skywarp but honestly I don't think it matters. I think Cyclonus may have been a new personality that may have shared with Skywarp or Bombshell and was the dominant personality. If we could have seen inside Cyclonus' head we'd likely see a bit of a personality thing like we did with the Vehicon generals from Beast Machines and now I'm going to shut up because I've probably said something stupid without knowing.
The continued sales of all 3 standard Insecticons and all 4 Deluxe Insecticons in the G1 Wave 3 toys could mean that they were not intended to be the basis of the Armada or the Sweeps. Insecticon clones make more sense. However, the absence of the toys for Skywarp and Thundercracker points toward both of them having been reformatted.
Even when i was young and first saw this movie, i always felt skywarp was the real cyclonus and bombshell was the clone , made more sense to me F-15- Space fighter, cause cyclonus was a good flyer and so was skywarp.
I'm on the side of both combined into a new character.
Yes I believe it was both by watching it over and over again. Skywarp wasn’t the brightest and never had leadership martial besides having a moment with trying to fight his own in the absence of Megatron and the so called traitor Starscream who was with the human doctor in one of the G1 episodes. Bombshell had leadership skills, so I guess they combined them together to make a stronger second in command.
skywarp was a plane like cyclonus and the trusted one.
Soundwave: Skywarp Superior, Bombshell Inferior
Skywarp!
Though I can get behind the frankenstein idea!
I like the idea they're both combined, but because of Skywarps loyalty, his mind was used with a little intelligent upgrade from Bombshell. So Cyclonus is the best of both, to be the ideal secont in command.
To me, he was always Skywarp. It just made sense: of the original three seekers, Starscream ranked #1, and Skywarp and Thundercracker seemed to be #2 and #3 respectively. Despite the storyboards, making Bombshell into a fully loyal second-in-command felt like clumsy laziness, like someone had skipped a page of the series bible or something.
Also, I never bought the theory that the tossed Deceptions were all dead, when we just saw them alive mere moments ago onboard Astrotrain. Sure they were weak and beaten, but they don't need to breathe in space, and I find it hard to believe they all just happened to die at the same time in the span of probably a few minutes.
Now as to just who or what Cyclonus's "armada" is supposed to be, that's a whole other can of worms. My headcannon is that Bombshell became another Sweep.
When you consider that the Insecticons are seen to still be alive (in and of itself a sort of retcon moment, considering that closeup of Kickback's head being run over in the movie) RodimusPrimal's theory is the most sound. That said, considering the personalities of the seeker jets, it really ought to be Skywarp becoming Scourge (flying ace, loyal to the death, not the brightest) and Thundercracker becoming Cyclonus (Thundercracker canon says he is the only Decepticon who feels guilty for picking on the humans; Cyclonus takes Galvatron to therapy...). Oh well.