It's crazy. I was an AF pilot in the U.S. Then with AA for about 9 years. You always check and double or triple check everything. Whatever you need to do for your crew to keep people safe. As the PIC or captain I had to do a go around in ORD in Chicago because of the low ceiling of fog. An executive from AA came up to me a few days later and asked me, "do you know how much that go around costs"? I said "a lot less than 186 people dead"!
KQ flight 507 just got its justice From Mentour Pilot! Being a Kenyan, I have read about this incident several times and this is the first time I'm coming across crucial information on the CRM skills and general skills of the Captain. Thank you so much for the core details and research put into this video.
Wametufikia. Not sure how to feel about it, but I knew this study would hit Captain Mentours' desk. I remember the devastation felt in the country when this plane went down. The incompetence was mind-blowing
This incident really got to me. All those lives lost because of ego and arrogance. Needless. The final report read like the Captain's training record. It's stunning to me that many airlines weren't regularly training upset recovery until fairly recently, and a lot of people had to die. But more training wouldn't have helped his dangerous core issues. Arrogance is different than ego, in that an arrogant person thinks they know it all, no need to learn, thus training is not very effective. Learning is a very humble and lifelong thing, but people often quit ("set in your ways").
This one is very close to my heart. We lost our CEO, CFO and her husband, company secretary and an engineer in this crash (MTN Cameroon). Most of them were my fellow countrymen, South Africans, and they were on their way to our head office in Johannesburg for an executive meeting. It's so funny, I even remember where I was when I heard about this and this was 16 years ago. It was utterly, utterly shocking! It was just doom and gloom throughout the company for a very long time. Petter, you've put it very gently. The situation in the cockpit was unbelievable. The captain was a complete and utter nightmare to the first officer. I think at some point he even called him stupid or something. That is what caused him to be afraid of him and keep quiet throughout the ordeal until the last few seconds. Upon investigation, they had to go back and listen to the cockpit recorder of the previous leg of the flight, and that's where they discovered the 'verbal abuse.' I'm putting this accident squarely on the captain and his unbelievable behaviour.
I'm so sorry. A hard incident to hear, so I can only imagine. Likely the FO knew early on that things were becoming unsafe, and did what he could, but had been forced into submission. I really feel for him and what he went through in his last hours of life, as there's no way to overcome this personality defect (some of us have spent a lifetime with no success!). The captain should have been passing on his knowledge and experience, as a good example, if nothing else, not berating and bullying his FO. RIP all who lost their lives here.
I´m very sorry for you. And yes, the CVR contained really a shocking behaviour of this Captain - in fact there was no space for this Captain in a Cockpit on scheduled Passenger Flights and it was a serious mistake of the Company to promote him to the role of a Pilot-in-Command after they had detected his shortcomings.
It is not funny that you remember where you were when you heard about this, but that's just how our brains work. We tend to remember the details of what we were doing and where we were when we received shocking news. Many people vividly remember where they were when they heard about the 9/11 tragedy. I certainly do. Similarly, I can recall not just the short period of time when I received news of the death of some of my relatives, but also what I was doing in these days before the news. Perhaps you can relate to this experience as well, not just in this specific incident
I feel so bad for the poor first officer. the fact that before they even took off he had to correct the pilot on _which way they were turning_ is unbelievable. he didn't deserve to die because of the captain's incompetence. neither did anyone else on that plane
I know. It's very hard for me not to be angry at the captain becsuse from the very start he was so arrogant he thought he could just do whatever he wanted without following procedure. -Snatching the radio or whatever it is to call ATC away from the FO when he was supposed to doing other things. -Taking off before being given the go-ahead. -Not checking if the settings he'd thought were changed/inputted had actually been adjusted. -Not calling out things he'd done (ie the autopilot) - Just generally not paying attention to either his controls or his instruments. It's heartbreaking how many people had to die due to this man's absolute incompetence, ignorance, and refusal to follow his training.
@@dahliacheung6020 Dunno why you felt the need to point out that the Captain was a man, as if to say that it wouldn't have happened had it been a female Captain.
Especially considering the FO was a 23 year old who had already made it to a big commercial airline. Had a bright future ahead, i actually found out the captain used to be a cabin crew before saving enough to transition to flying. He was probably envious of the young privileged FO, flying at 23.
@@looksirdroids9134 No idea if English is your first language. That's a completely normal way of talking. The intent is not pointing out they are male. The intent is to unambiguously single out and draw attention to a particular person and their actions, as if the person saying it is physically pointing their finger at the person they are talking about and making an accusation. Imagine there is a fist fight between 5 men and one is stabbed with a knife. A witness clearly sees who did the stabbing. What would the witness say to the police when the 4 other men from the fight are lined up at the police station? The witness would point to the guilty person and say, "That man had the knife and stabbed him." Communicating to police that they are making the accusation with a high degree of certainty. Not pointing out that the guy is a guy.
@@looksirdroids9134 does it really matter? Aside from the actual report that said Male, 52 years old? Or, that it is literally in the video as Male, 52 years old at 1:01? Stick to the facts and stop worrying about gender.
As a cameroonian, this accident did send shock waves throughout the country when it happened. To date when you say "mbanga mpongo" ( that's the village were the plane crashed) everybody just know what you're talking about. This is the best video I have seen detailing what happened.
As a Kenyan pilot there is a generational gap sometimes between us young pilots & the older generation some of whom are quite difficult to deal with (stems from our culture where elders believe they know better than the youngings*) -*warlord* is a term for those captains that are rigid & hard to deal with. Sad, lives had to be lost. 😢
My nephew is an FO for a major US carrier. He’s mentioned this generational issue can also occur with Asian pilots due to a similar cultural deference.
There should be none of that older / younger generation rubbish. It should be based on respect for each other and the fact that you the younger pilot has paid his dues to be there!!
Oh my gosh. My uncle was on this flight. I remember he was on his way to South Africa with a connecting flight from Nairobi, and his wife begged him not to go. She had a terrible feeling in addition to a nightmare she had the night before he had to leave. When he left for the airport she followed him in a taxi begging him not to go. He went. Needless to say she, their two girls and our entire family was devastated. Till this day she mourns him. She was in her 30s when he died and the kids were toddlers. They are now teenagers. She never remarried. RiP my dear uncle FRU ANE CONNILIUS
As a car driver I check my speed routinely every 5 seconds or so just to make sure I'm adhering to the speed limit. It's incomprehensible to me how a trained pilot wouldn't even glance at his primary flight controls for such a long period just to make sure he's not crashing everyone to certain death.
Believe me when I say that me and my Examiner colleagues are doing everything we can to stop that from happening. This crash serves as a stark reminder of why thats so important
@@maxwellyegoOfficial I have a captain as a friend and we fly sometimes together on xplane espacialy in covid time when he was home. And he told me that im actually more orientated than A LOT pilots he flight with that was crazy to hear
Lost a cousin who was part of the cabin crew on this flight. Thanks for the video, at least I have something to share with my kin back home on what really led to this tragic aircrash that claimed the life of one of our own.
I noticed in the comments section that the government of Kenya wasn’t much help and wrote it off as being caused by bad weather. In my opinion, that’s a very poor way of providing closure to the friends and families of the victims. I’m glad Mentour Pilot was able to do so for your family because the worst thing for the family of a victim who died in a plane crash is not knowing why.
I’m a Kenyan and I extensively read about the pilot’s character in one of the papers then. The writer described the captain as obnoxious man who took his colleague for a junior or treated him like his own son. Thanks for doing this vid.
It's great that you chose to cover the KQ507 crash from your own point of view. I do like your channel. As a crew for Kenya airways at that time this accident came as a shock and it's something I will never forget. I remember taking off from the same airport on another 737-800 a day after the lost aircraft had still not been found and I just looked down the dense forest with hopes of spotting something. It was a really sad time for us and the families of the lost crew and passengers. The weirdest thing is I had a strong premonition of a KQ plane crash in November 2006 the year before this fatal accident happened. That was the time I joined the airline as a trainee flight attendant. What's different in the dream was that I was in the plane and there were many survivors me being one of them. In the dream the plane ditched in the ocean.
Hello Freddy am Robert have seen you have commented on mentor pilot and decided to say hae. I will love to be a pilot in Kenya am already a graduate from Maseno university, is there anyway you can help
@@Rubanifarms Sorry I am not in any position to assist you with your career progression. I was working there in 2006-7 and left forever. Good luck though.
I'm pretty sure aviation has officially become my new special interest, and mostly thanks to this channel. Thank you so much for providing constant refueling to this fixation!
@NHL 2K10 that’s just not accurate. If you are to forbid things based on how dangerous they are, you will have to start with things like motorcycles and cars.
@@carlitocanadiancool6516 I highly suggest you look at some numbers of annual losses of life in relation to passenger volumes in air traffic compared to other forms of transport. Be ready for a shock, as what you will find out may have an impact on your worldview.
Finally!! you covered this Kenyan flight. Very majestic work. I've been waiting on answers for this flight. Other TH-cam videos could absolutely not cover it like you did. I learnt alot from this video too. Much love from Kenya. Thank you Mentour Pilot✈️
My brother in law was on this flight. Being the wife of an airline pilot who saved our lives with an engine failure on take off and he saved many lives when the engine dettached on take off at CT international Its all about training, training, training and experience
I applaud your recommendation to take a suitability test before starting flight training. For some people, becoming a pilot is more about social status than passion for aviation. As an instructor, I have met a few people who started flight training with the wrong motivation. Many years ago, I was instructor for a young man on a type rating course on a transport category aircraft. His dad had paid for all of his training, and he was promised a job in an airline company after completing the type rating. You should think that he was very motivated, but as the training progressed, his performance declined. He struggled with situational awarness and emergency procedures. Remedial training didn't help. He just gave up. This was just not the right thing for him. So yes, it is better to be screened before spending a small fortune on flight training. The airline companies alwyas set the border higher than the licencing authorities.
If a career is not right for you, it is better you recognise it early on. I love flying, but I would not be a good pilot as I am rubbish at Maths and direction!! I work in an ED as a senior nurse, and I guess many pilots couldn’t cope that either 😂❤
Yep, especially with careers which can put lives on the line. It's not a big deal if you go into advertising by mistake, but a pilot, a doctor, a military officer, all those kinds of positions *have* to be filled by the right people.
In a world full of TikTok crap, it’s great to see someone use platforms in such thoughtfulness, professionalism and detail. This content is what TH-cam and other platforms were meant to be. Excellent work.
I cannot imagine being on the flight from Abidjan to Douala...landing safely...only to discover shortly after that the place crashed on its last leg to Nairobi. Really feel for the families who lost their loved ones, colleagues, and friends during this tragic flight.
Thank you for explaining the cause of this accident in detail. As a Kenyan, the reports we received from the media at the time didn't tell the complete story. I appreciate the huge amount of effort you put into your explanations of tragic events such as these.
I Remember on how this incidence was uncovered in the Stormy Cockpit Episode... Whereby due to lack of situational awareness, the captain panicked and then everything went downhill from there... If only he had managed to stay calm and let the autopilot to steer the plane back into control...
As an avid Mentour Pilot fan who's Kenyan, I'm happy to have you cover this accident. It's the first ever air accident I ever got aware of thanks to my uncle, Captain Peter Maranga who is a retired senior captain at Kenya Airways.
Airplanes are the safest means of transportation.Airplane accidents are preplanned to sacrifice people.I hate this because it's all bad politics to kill people.
It's very painful watching this video coz initially the report from KQ was shallow. The first officer happened to be a son of my high school, Homescience teacher. I recall how the incident carried her away and took her alot of months to comeback to school. May his soul rest in eternal peace 🕊️
I can’t imagine how she felt. No one wants to outlive their children like that…hopefully his soul is at peace, and hers as well. I wouldn’t fault the first officer for anything, with the captain being a giant asshat. I hope his mom knows that in her heart.
I remember when this accident happened it was such a trigger event for me, because 7 years earlier, I lost my father in the Kenya Airways crash in Abidjan (Côte d’Ivoire). The worst part is that one friend’s older brother, was on KQ507. For many years I wanted to understand in details what happened to with KQ507 and the doomed Abidjan flight. Thank you Mentour for providing such detailed and easy to follow explanation.
I am Kenyan and an avid follower of your videos. I have literally watched all of them and had been eagerly awaiting for this one. Thanks for presenting such a clear and detailed insight into this shocking incident. We have finally understood what happened .
I’m glad you got closure. I read in other comments that Kenya’s government wasn’t exactly helpful in giving answers and wrote it off as caused by bad weather.
Yes, and I would underline that he killed those people. If one single mistake in a perfectly fine aircraft makes it to go down, I would name that "killing".
Thank you! As a Kenyan, this is the first thing I searched for when I stumbled upon your channel a few weeks ago. I was a kid when it happened but I vividly remember the headlines in the papers.
Oh my gosh! I moved to Nairobi for work 5 years ago and I fly Kenya Airways twice a month, at least. I’m so surprised I didn’t know a single thing about this sad tragedy. I’m glad they have trained their pilots better. This programme was so excellently done! It was astounding and fascinating beyond measure! Thank you!
Keep flying that airline if you have a death wish. A lot of unbelievably dangerous incompetence and cutting of corners going on behind the scenes and it will culminate in something disastrous...then there will be a commission of inquiry...thats the Kenyan style
@@marehemudanielarapmoi6424 😂😂sasa what airlines should they fly no pilot is willingly going to endanger themselves and their passengers. No matter how many corners KQ cut the decision is always to the pilots . They don’t get paid well enough for them to take off with a plane that’s not up to code.Kenya,SA and Ethiopia produce the best pilots on the continent. It’s good to give credit where credit is due and not demonize a whole industry
3:52 - you describe elements of narcissism really well - entitlement, lack of self awareness, blaming others for their own mistakes (it's always someone else's fault). And you're right, you've got very limited possibilities for improvement as this is unfortunately a very persistent personality style. In order to behave better in a limited area they would first need to know how this improvement would benefit first of all them, it doesn't really help explaining how their bad behaviour will affect others - they don't care about others. And such unpleasant people straight from the dark triad (that's what it's called) also fly planes - but if they do, they'd better do it right.
Any time someone tried to explain to my father that his behaviour was causing a lot of people problems, he instantly started talking about himself and the struggles he’d been facing as if it somehow excused all the horrible things he’d done. I had no choice but to cut him off because we need to look after ourselves sometimes too, not try and help those who can’t even care about you. I empathise with anyone stuck in a relationship with a narcissist, whether it’s a sibling, friend, lover or parent. Or in this case unfortunately, pilot.
@@Yuki-di2rb You did well. Toxic people needs to be removed from your life, even if it is someone as close as a father or brother. It will hurt a lot but it will pay off!
@@Yuki-di2rb Yes, making everything about themselves - also typical. Countless excuses to why they're mean, so they don't need to do anything about it. They always give us bad experiences and trauma, so better to part ways, unfortunately even when these are your parents - if possible. As you say, it's a matter of self care to do it. That's why this knowledge is so important in every walk of life. Also in aviation. Unfortunately I think this is not the first time a horrible accident happened where this personality contributed.
Nowadays, nothing haunts me more than the words "and this is going to become important very soon..." These videos are excellent, and I apply many principles to my non-flying life. Keep up the great work!
When I'm watching a video on an accident I'm unfamiliar with, it haunts me to hear "maximum altitude reached" since I then immediately know the aircraft is doomed.
I am a pilot and Im planing to crash my next flight with 200 people on board , hope you won't be on that flight ... this will become very important soon ...
I like watching aviation accident investigation here and on nat geo. But as a Kenyan, watching this one hits differently. I had my heart in my mouth the whole time.
If you litsened to the story or followed the tragedy since 2007 you'll realize problem was not so called inexperienced junior , it was so called experienced officer
This answered so many questions I have had over the years. Especially since it happened close to more than 15 ago, I really thought it was mainly the weather. Thank you for this break down.
This is super super amazing to watch this accident investigation considering I am from Kenya and I work in the aviation industry. I am both a researcher and writer on matters of safety and security in the industry and so this one comes in handy especially on safety topics of CRM, Training, Swiss Cheese Model and character/attitude for personnel working in the industry. I am today a very happy aviator and I will share this one all over. I've just been watching other series of accident investigations from mentour pilot's channel but today I have watched that which I can best relate to. 👏👏
As a Kenyan aviator living in Australia, this story was well explained. The captain rushed the procedure, lacked cockpit discipline and was controlling to his first officer. As the main carrier connecting west Africa to east Africa, the Kenyan government did little to reassure families affected and It’s believed “The gods of doula“ never forgave KQ. It’s never been the same again for Kenya airways.
I felt every word of your narration run through my body in chills of terror. I held my breath as I watched this , thinking of all those unsuspecting passengers at the back who trusted they'd get home safe. Im Kenyan so it hit home real💔
It shocks me how many times an incident could have been prevented, had the pilots only been paying attention to what the airplane was telling them through the primary instruments. When I'm on instruments or under the hood, I am SO afraid of missing something that I almost never take my eyes out of the cockpit.
I Remember on how this incidence was uncovered in the Stormy Cockpit Episode... Whereby due to lack of situational awareness, the captain panicked and then everything went downhill from there... If only he had managed to stay calm and let the autopilot to steer the plane back into control...
Even flying on my PC, I monitor my gauges every 2-3 seconds out of habit. I think the problem is that you get complacent as flying larger planes is very much like steering a big boat and the feedback is very delayed. Large inputs tend to not end well as it just makes things worse. Certainly not yanking in every direction in a panic.
Late to the party, but as a Kenyan thank you for covering this incident. I was around 3 years old when it happened, and all I can remember is being grateful my dad wasn't on this flight, as he was travelling to Cameroon when I first heard the news. And thank you for addressing the important issue that sometimes being a pilot isn't for everyone (as we unfortunately saw during this incident).
The one thing I liked most about this video is how meticulously it was professionally prepared; not only the research data used but also the creation of perfect visual aids.
I know. This pilot was such a hack. Such a fool. And a tool that got hundreds killed. If it hadn’t killed 100+, his recovery efforts would have been hilarious. Him just randomly yanking the yoke left and right. Just hoping he might get lucky. 🤦♂️
I don't understand why an airline would promote to Commander a person who showed serious issues in CRM and personal attitude, even when being subordinate. It's bad to have a Second-in-Command like that, but outright hazardous to have a Commander like that! Is there such a shortage of Captains that they need to promote people that aren't up to that role?
Because Peter is calm, collected and professional at all times which is pretty much a crucial necessity for good pilots to have especially when it comes to emergencies. Sully Sullenberger is a great example
Probably because they’re usually dead and you’re just being a jerk to his family and relatives Not exactly intentional to crash your plane unless you’re Al-Qaeda
What never ceases to amaze me is how much “normal” workplaces could learn from pilot training. When mistakes cost hundreds of lives you come up with really efficient systems and procedures real quick. I reckon if you walked into any business, passed on a bit of knowledge, they’d see a huge jump in productivity, or at the very least safety and oversight
@@cdreid9999 absolutely, especially understanding and accepting human limitations, and designing processes that work with them to improve performance rather than actively being counterproductive. The most depressing of these accidents are where it would have been completely avoided if the junior pilot had just felt comfortable questioning his superiors decisions.
Yeah thats kinda fucked up tho .. how " normal " workplaces could learn ? Dont forget those flight companies make ALOT of fking money . And you think they all work fine and efficient ? I can tell you its every single fking time they are not working . And also , sure those people have to learn alot , but dont forget why they come up with really efficient systems . If they would make the same money without investing in new safer systems while people dying , they would not invest the money in safer systems .
@@cdreid9999 I could bot possibly agree more with smth! You're my hero this morning lol, the other commenter here too. People with brains, refreshing.
The best channel ever! I had always waited for this story for so long. Just the way you produce your videos gives me goosebumps! Keep up the good work Sir. Kind regards from Kenya.☺
I remember this day with nostalgia. As a member of the in-flight crew with the company then, the news broke our hearts and immense fear. Need less to say, we all needed some counselling that we dint get. RIP colleagues.
I remember too. We were so traumatized but never got any professional counseling. It was business as usual immediately afterwards. I can remember passenger numbers being so low amidst the somber mood. Life had to continue. Had to stay strong and hold tears while working.
I’ve been patiently waiting for your next video since binge watching nearly everything on your channel 😅 You’re an inspiration! I went from having pre-flight jitters to looking into a pilots license thanks to you!
@@a.nasongo3152 I think what she’s trying to say is that the culture of some countries can have an effect on pilot training and unintentionally compromise safety. Kenyan culture is not bad, but when it comes to aviation, it is vitally important that crew members work as a team now matter how big the age gap is.
@@martino6205 Haha.. ya sure mate. It's colonialisms fault. Having respect for one's elders can't possibly be something inherent to a culture by itself right? All the colonized countries were just blank slates before the evil whities came.
I was working with Kenya Airways as a vendor at the time out of JNB, I remember when it happened. The PR and marketing manager for SA I worked with, visited the crash site a day after the accident. He came back a changed man and needed serious therapy sessions following what he saw. He was very much affected by this... he reported the carnage as inexplicably awful.😪
Thank you for the aptitude test links, just worked some. I don't intend to become a pilot but as a professional, the tests are helping me see where I'm lacking, especially about things I thought obvious but clearly knew little about! Keep up the good work man 🙏
Your pilot testing procedure in the cockpit looks so very complicated. You’re watching the pilot’s every move, monitoring those screens, and doing your written evaluation or checklist at the same time, impressive! You must be tired out after one of these tests. I wish you could test every pilot in the planes in which I’m a passenger!
There is also an effect when light is off to the side of the airplane. I first encountered that in training in Laramie, where the airport is west of the town. The lights give the illusion that you are in a bank, causing you to want to turn away from the lights to "level" the airplane (on the assumption that ground lighting should be below you.) Lightning in clouds, I learned and experienced later does the same thing.
I cant imagine the work done on each video of this series, from research to writing the script, simulating and editing.. Great job to you and your team, really appreciate the work.
I was just thinking the same thing. The re enactments in Microsoft flight simulator are top notch and must take forever to make, from finding the correct models in the correct livery to the actual airport. I'm always impressed. The one where the captain got sucked out the cockpit window mid flight was a masterpiece. Keep up the good work!
The fact that the pilot took off without clearance pretty much sums up his ability as a pilot. He screwed up before the plane even left the runway. It’s a perfect example of pilot incompetence
I know, right? Those TV aircraft accident investigations are so sensationalist and unnecessarily bloated in contrast. You have the same segments being repeated over and over again just to "build up tension". That's what generally differentiates quality TH-cam content from traditional TV imo - there's pure CONTENT instead of bullshit. If something has content for 15 minutes, it's 15 minutes long, not 1:30 hours...
Thanks for the video, as a Kenyan, I was really looking for a detailed answer to this particular crash and finaly you created time to dig deeper into details. Keep up the good work, Much love from Kenya
Mentour Pilot has been a tremendous learning experience way beyond my very small number of flying hours. These videos have taught me so much I somehow instinctively knew Flight 507 had not been cleared for takeoff. Terrific work by the entire Mentor Pilot crew! May safety continue to improve, in memory of and out of respect for lives lost.
As a person who works in occupational health and safety I would say he's a gold standard in just general incident investigation communication, I struggle to imagine an industry that does a better job of responding to incidents, investigating and making changes. I'm sure it's there but the aviation industry and petter specifically are definitely very impressive.
Hi Petter, i flew from Nairobi to Douala and Abidjan and back several times in this era and was mystified by the crash. We heard from Kenya Airways staff that a rainstorm had caused engine failure. Made no sense at all. Thanks for this detailed reconstruction, which l have been waiting for!
This is really thorough and éducative. I've been waiting for this coverage since discovering Mentour Pilot and your research and delivery of this incident report had done it justice. Great work. Loved it!
Being a primary school kid back then and hearing the news later that evening, was a clear sign to me to always pay attention- A lesson you can only learn from mistakes. Thank you Mentour Pilot for the critical details. Am now 100% aware of the situation after reading the recommendations and now your video. Keep up.
Happened when I was in Primary School in Kenya. Back then there was no way we could comprehend the complexities behind such accidents. All my classmates said they would never want to be pilots but for me it remained a big dream. Sadly never got the chance.
@@MentourPilot It has helped and I am really thankful for the details in all your videos. Fascinating stuff and very important life lessons in there. I feel like almost all professions require the same kind of care and presence.
Reminds me of the Korean air crash where a young Co pilot was scared to tell the senior pilot he was making a mistake because of the "respect your elders" culture which is also a thing in Africa.
I remember I was just a kid in Kenya when this accident happened and every media station kept the news about the accident for days back to back even though I didn't understand much of what was going on, It was so terrifying. Such amazing video I've finally understood step by step what happened. Thanks a lot.
I had just been enrolled into boarding school that year so I completely missed all of this. None of our teachers ever mentioned it either. At least I came upon this properly explained coverage of the accident.
When there's no horizon, flying an airplane without looking at your instruments is sort of like driving without looking out the windshield. Incredible. Infuriating how people can fly a perfectly good aircraft into the ground.
As a pilot I always thought a ding or chime along with a soft voice announcing when a system is turned on would be a nice additional confirmation. This of course couldn’t be on all the many systems but could be on quite a few. Much like apps on your phone have different alert chimes for different apps, this audible confirmation along with the normal visual confirmations would help. In this case of the auto pilot he would not have heard the notification which may have caused him to confirm visually.
I have this for my wireless earplugs when the battery low and it’s not too distracting when doing tasks. I can see why it would be a good idea as a pilot. Reduces the human error. There is one when it’s disconnected, right?
I have been waiting for you to cover this accident!! I love your explanations as a subject matter expert. I am not a pilot, but I love the science of aviation. I also like to think of CRM in my position of managing my employees, and I stress attention to detail. Just because you've done something a thousand times doesn't mean you can't make a mistake
I can't imagine the terror of that young first officer as the guy he's supposed to be learning from, supposed to be a professional training and airmanship partner, just panics and starts shouting 'We're crashing!' and randomly yanking around the controls, randomly flicking the autopilot on and off, clearly just with no idea what he's doing or why.
Thank you Petter for yet another 5* review. Some live and learn, others do not, but we are all deeply indebted to those like you who strive to make aviation safer. RIP to those involved in this tragedy.
My first flight lesson in a little Cessna the old bird was really well kept up, but had just a bit of a cant to the right. The owner just kept reminding me to look at the artificial horizon to keep the wings level rather than relying on the rudder to match the compass heading. Loved my XAv program!
I just wish you knew how many people are educated by watching your videos. A special thank you for covering this horrible disaster from my country Kenya 🇰🇪.
Thank you so much for this informative technical video with great inputs on pilot error and aero dynamics. Yes, an aptitude test at initial stage is very important. My heartfelt condolences to the familied of all the precious souls aboard flight 507.May their souls RIP. Pray such accidents does not happen. May God be with all the Pilots as they command the flying marvel. Thanks again for this excellent video. Much appreciated.
Mentour Pilot. I'm an avid fun of your astounding work. I have watched 95% of your videos. I'm an aircraft maintenance Certifying engineer & your videos have really assisted me to Become a better person. I'm so humbled, Be blessed......
What a great clear and concise analysis! Great job @MentourPilot, I've learnt a thing or two on principles of flying an aircraft and the actual circumstances that led to the accident.
I requested this a while back, thank you for covering the story, we really needed to understand what happened in this very sad and catastrophic incident. sending lots of love from Kenyans 👏👏 My condolences to anyone who lost a loved one 🙏 💔
I always find the pilot insights fascinating. Whilst other channels cover the mechanics of the accidents well, having the insight of pilot history and personalities adds a valuable dynamic to understanding these tragedies.
Glad to see this story featured on mentour pilot. I like how you break down things such that a layman can understand. Nowadays I know definition of terms such as; ILS approach, toga, GPWS, CRM, PAN PAN, May day, etc etc
I've flown Kenya Airways frequently on business trips in Africa (US professional). Always competent and comfortable. Even had a flight with a female captain (a celebrity in Kenya I imagine!) and she kept us out of trouble in a t-storm, aborted our landing a few hundred feet up and went to a holding pattern. I thanked her on the way out. Flying in Africa is extra challenging because the air traffic is very light and remote so captains don't have as much weather information. RIP the lost souls.
I may have convinced a friend to try flying again because of your awesome videos. He is a nervous flyer, especially after a hard landing about a decade ago. He’s been watching these with me as his wife wants to book a vacation, I hope he goes through with it. Thanks so much for these videos .
Kenyan here . I was about 6 when this accident happened . I barely understood what was going on but I remember I couldn't talk about ever being a pilot after this . This accident shook the country to it's core .
This brings memories, bad memories... I remember the day when I heard the aircraft had disappeared... upon learning who the Capt was, I said, he's killed people... I remember two previous incidents with the same captain, one not directly with me... and I wonder would we have averted this 😭 Maybe yes/no... it's sad that so many people lost their lives. Kenya Airways is really safety oriented and takes serious CRM. We pray this never happens again 🙏🏾 Thank you for the detailed and fact-filled explanation. This shows you do your research very well. I hope this will be used to avert future accidents.
Very interesting to understand what actually make these accidents happen. As a customer, it's always scary to be ignorant of what actually cause these tragedies! People keep saying aviation is the statistically safest way of transportation, yet are unable to tell anything about how accident happens. When sitting for the first time in those (basically) large winged alluminimium bus, I prefer to know! Hearing that every pilot goes trough specific training every 6 month is crucial to understanding how we are taken care of as passengers. Thank you Mentour Pilot : )
Oh My, TYVM for your comment, I didnt realize anyone conceptualizes commercial aircraft as "basically large winged aluminum bus". Did I miss a joke? sorry. If I could make wishes come true, I'd wish for every air passenger to seek & gain basic knowledge concerning aircraft design, safety redundancies, (back up systems with back up systems for the back up systems), Beyond the hull composition, as aluminum aircraft are mostly those of past history. Newer aircraft use composites more and more with each new release from either Airbus or Boeing. Glass Cockpits, and fly by wire are also items you may wish to take a peek into. Aviation safety is paramount, which is certainly what keeps the industry miles ahead of all other means of travel on & around earth.
If it’s any further comfort, know that it’s not just the pilots. It’s the flight attendants, the engineers, ground handlers, security, ATC, everyone who works airside does their best every day to keep the aircraft safe.
Fascinating analysis. As a non-pilot (I play sims), but someone who designs and implements user interfaces, I find the way autopilots work really unintuitive. It's such an important function, yet you have to pay attention to know it's on/off. When you're so busy, it should be something that's really obvious. I would literally have a coloured LED strip across the dash that changes from red to green so it's impossible to miss. It's quite disturbing too that this plane could basically be crashed by mistake in bad but manageable weather. A 'button of last resort' where the AP takes over and returns the flight to horizontal flight is surely something that's possible, even as a retrofit? Anyway, always enjoy these videos, even if they're a bit unsettling.
In a programmer myself and fully agree. So often problems occur because being a pilot requires monitoring hundreds of things. A plane, for example, should be able to detect when zero controller input is given for a prolonged period of time when the autopilot is turned off. That should be an audible warning
I agree wholeheartedly. I find these user interfaces to be rather poorly designed. Granted, there are reasons why they are they way they are and it would be exceptionally difficult to revamp them entirely considering the amount of testing and retraining required. But I think a long-term planned modernization of these interfaces is long past due.
Some military aircraft have such a button and even a system that returns the plane to level flight when zero inputs are detected for a period - it's saved lives of pilots when they've blacked out
A lot of accidents show the pilots failing to notice a couple of tiny letters on a tiny screen, it really looks like they could have made it way more obvious.
Thank you so much, for this insightful narration of what led to this tragic accident. Here in Kenya, it was thrown under the carpet, and simply termed as bad weather.
Your videos are riveting. Top notch research, simulations, voiceover, editing... Excellence in every step. Thank you for educating us, especially when the incident ends poorly - it must be hard for you and your whole team. Much appreciated.
I have been waiting for you to do this review of KQ507. Being Kenyan. This was always a mystery of why a brand new 737 would go down.I have family members who are retired KQ 737 pilots. Especially for an airline that had only until this accident one hull loss being KQ 431 . Thank you
🌏 Get an Exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ nordvpn.com/pilot It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! ✌
how is your comment older than the video
12:38 would be happy to do the "french translation" if needed ... juste ask next time😉
@@chrisday4845 you must be fun at parties
_"It was a dark and stormy night..."_
_"Tower, can I get my clearance in Klingon?"_
It's crazy. I was an AF pilot in the U.S. Then with AA for about 9 years. You always check and double or triple check everything. Whatever you need to do for your crew to keep people safe. As the PIC or captain I had to do a go around in ORD in Chicago because of the low ceiling of fog. An executive from AA came up to me a few days later and asked me, "do you know how much that go around costs"? I said "a lot less than 186 people dead"!
That executive must not have flown anything with passengers before...or at all. Costs can be recouped...dead passengers cannot be recouped.
That answer is priceless. I hope you didn’t get in trouble for that answer and I hope it’s knocked some sense into the executive.
Got him there!
Did it land safely 😢
@@jeffjerrymedia.6232 Eventually when it was safe and legal to do
KQ flight 507 just got its justice From Mentour Pilot! Being a Kenyan, I have read about this incident several times and this is the first time I'm coming across crucial information on the CRM skills and general skills of the Captain. Thank you so much for the core details and research put into this video.
You are more than welcome. I hope it answered some of your questions.. 😔
It exposed a lot about KQ and forced them to make the crucial changes.
But honestly, the price was extremely high.
May they RIP
Wametufikia. Not sure how to feel about it, but I knew this study would hit Captain Mentours' desk. I remember the devastation felt in the country when this plane went down. The incompetence was mind-blowing
This incident really got to me. All those lives lost because of ego and arrogance. Needless. The final report read like the Captain's training record. It's stunning to me that many airlines weren't regularly training upset recovery until fairly recently, and a lot of people had to die. But more training wouldn't have helped his dangerous core issues. Arrogance is different than ego, in that an arrogant person thinks they know it all, no need to learn, thus training is not very effective. Learning is a very humble and lifelong thing, but people often quit ("set in your ways").
@@Lexlugr I'm so sorry, it's was a needless, hard tragedy, and really got to me, so I can only imagine. RIP all.
Whoever passes in the hands of this guy as a trainee pilot is so lucky to have such an incredible instructor 🙌.
sure just don't be on the other flight
Totally agree
Totally agree❤
This one is very close to my heart. We lost our CEO, CFO and her husband, company secretary and an engineer in this crash (MTN Cameroon). Most of them were my fellow countrymen, South Africans, and they were on their way to our head office in Johannesburg for an executive meeting. It's so funny, I even remember where I was when I heard about this and this was 16 years ago. It was utterly, utterly shocking! It was just doom and gloom throughout the company for a very long time.
Petter, you've put it very gently. The situation in the cockpit was unbelievable. The captain was a complete and utter nightmare to the first officer. I think at some point he even called him stupid or something. That is what caused him to be afraid of him and keep quiet throughout the ordeal until the last few seconds. Upon investigation, they had to go back and listen to the cockpit recorder of the previous leg of the flight, and that's where they discovered the 'verbal abuse.' I'm putting this accident squarely on the captain and his unbelievable behaviour.
Thanks that does explain how he might have been too intimidated to say anything.
I'm so sorry. A hard incident to hear, so I can only imagine. Likely the FO knew early on that things were becoming unsafe, and did what he could, but had been forced into submission. I really feel for him and what he went through in his last hours of life, as there's no way to overcome this personality defect (some of us have spent a lifetime with no success!). The captain should have been passing on his knowledge and experience, as a good example, if nothing else, not berating and bullying his FO. RIP all who lost their lives here.
I´m very sorry for you. And yes, the CVR contained really a shocking behaviour of this Captain - in fact there was no space for this Captain in a Cockpit on scheduled Passenger Flights and it was a serious mistake of the Company to promote him to the role of a Pilot-in-Command after they had detected his shortcomings.
It is not funny that you remember where you were when you heard about this, but that's just how our brains work. We tend to remember the details of what we were doing and where we were when we received shocking news. Many people vividly remember where they were when they heard about the 9/11 tragedy. I certainly do. Similarly, I can recall not just the short period of time when I received news of the death of some of my relatives, but also what I was doing in these days before the news. Perhaps you can relate to this experience as well, not just in this specific incident
Were the ceo and cfo on the plane?
I feel so bad for the poor first officer. the fact that before they even took off he had to correct the pilot on _which way they were turning_ is unbelievable. he didn't deserve to die because of the captain's incompetence. neither did anyone else on that plane
I know. It's very hard for me not to be angry at the captain becsuse from the very start he was so arrogant he thought he could just do whatever he wanted without following procedure.
-Snatching the radio or whatever it is to call ATC away from the FO when he was supposed to doing other things.
-Taking off before being given the go-ahead.
-Not checking if the settings he'd thought were changed/inputted had actually been adjusted.
-Not calling out things he'd done (ie the autopilot)
- Just generally not paying attention to either his controls or his instruments.
It's heartbreaking how many people had to die due to this man's absolute incompetence, ignorance, and refusal to follow his training.
@@dahliacheung6020 Dunno why you felt the need to point out that the Captain was a man, as if to say that it wouldn't have happened had it been a female Captain.
Especially considering the FO was a 23 year old who had already made it to a big commercial airline. Had a bright future ahead, i actually found out the captain used to be a cabin crew before saving enough to transition to flying. He was probably envious of the young privileged FO, flying at 23.
@@looksirdroids9134 No idea if English is your first language. That's a completely normal way of talking. The intent is not pointing out they are male. The intent is to unambiguously single out and draw attention to a particular person and their actions, as if the person saying it is physically pointing their finger at the person they are talking about and making an accusation.
Imagine there is a fist fight between 5 men and one is stabbed with a knife. A witness clearly sees who did the stabbing. What would the witness say to the police when the 4 other men from the fight are lined up at the police station? The witness would point to the guilty person and say, "That man had the knife and stabbed him." Communicating to police that they are making the accusation with a high degree of certainty. Not pointing out that the guy is a guy.
@@looksirdroids9134 does it really matter? Aside from the actual report that said Male, 52 years old? Or, that it is literally in the video as Male, 52 years old at 1:01? Stick to the facts and stop worrying about gender.
As a cameroonian, this accident did send shock waves throughout the country when it happened. To date when you say "mbanga mpongo" ( that's the village were the plane crashed) everybody just know what you're talking about. This is the best video I have seen detailing what happened.
Surprisingly, mbanga in my country Kenya means Accident
sad about the accident
Am super stoked you're covering a Kenyan story. Much love from Kenya.
Much love back. 💕
@First Last thank you ☺️ karibu tena.
@@MentourPilot im from uk but in kenya 🥰✊🏽
Greetings from Chicago!
@First Last Jambo. You're welcome again. We love hosting visitors.
As a Kenyan pilot there is a generational gap sometimes between us young pilots & the older generation some of whom are quite difficult to deal with (stems from our culture where elders believe they know better than the youngings*) -*warlord* is a term for those captains that are rigid & hard to deal with. Sad, lives had to be lost. 😢
My nephew is an FO for a major US carrier. He’s mentioned this generational issue can also occur with Asian pilots due to a similar cultural deference.
There should be none of that older / younger generation rubbish. It should be based on respect for each other and the fact that you the younger pilot has paid his dues to be there!!
Very true especially with older captains.
Very sad captain
😢
Oh my gosh. My uncle was on this flight. I remember he was on his way to South Africa with a connecting flight from Nairobi, and his wife begged him not to go. She had a terrible feeling in addition to a nightmare she had the night before he had to leave. When he left for the airport she followed him in a taxi begging him not to go. He went. Needless to say she, their two girls and our entire family was devastated. Till this day she mourns him. She was in her 30s when he died and the kids were toddlers. They are now teenagers. She never remarried. RiP my dear uncle FRU ANE CONNILIUS
She would have remarried because the lady is still young
rest in peace to your uncle ):
@ejidikesamuel4540 he just told you she never remarried. Are you really this ignorant to tell him what his own family has or hasn't done? 🤯
Sorry for that
@@felixschrodinger7533😊
As a car driver I check my speed routinely every 5 seconds or so just to make sure I'm adhering to the speed limit. It's incomprehensible to me how a trained pilot wouldn't even glance at his primary flight controls for such a long period just to make sure he's not crashing everyone to certain death.
Shocking isn't it
Yes. This was a case of Captain Ego. Sadly they exist I've run into more than I ever should have in my lifetime. It never ends well for them.
Thank you for your service
You’re right.
I also do the same....its wild
It's so scary knowing that there are some pilots out there who are underqualified and can cause a crash
Believe me when I say that me and my Examiner colleagues are doing everything we can to stop that from happening. This crash serves as a stark reminder of why thats so important
KQ management and pilots, mmemulikwa!!
Coming straight to the USA too. You send the news that less flight hours are acceptable to fly now? It's terrible
I wouldn't call it under qualified, more like lack of discipline and zero interpersonal skills.
@@maxwellyegoOfficial I have a captain as a friend and we fly sometimes together on xplane espacialy in covid time when he was home. And he told me that im actually more orientated
than A LOT pilots he flight with that was crazy to hear
Lost a cousin who was part of the cabin crew on this flight. Thanks for the video, at least I have something to share with my kin back home on what really led to this tragic aircrash that claimed the life of one of our own.
......❤.......😢
I noticed in the comments section that the government of Kenya wasn’t much help and wrote it off as being caused by bad weather. In my opinion, that’s a very poor way of providing closure to the friends and families of the victims. I’m glad Mentour Pilot was able to do so for your family because the worst thing for the family of a victim who died in a plane crash is not knowing why.
So very sorry to hear this❤
I’m a Kenyan and I extensively read about the pilot’s character in one of the papers then. The writer described the captain as obnoxious man who took his colleague for a junior or treated him like his own son. Thanks for doing this vid.
Being a Kenyan, this episode has really hit differently. Other investigative series never really gave so much details.
Thanks Mentour pilot for this.
I know what you mean, for me the episode about Air France 447 was hard to watch
Thank this pale for what
@@reckontonottobemoved not very lovely mother of love 😂
This is when I got to know that we Africans our pride will kill us
Heard this 1st by @AbelMutua
It's great that you chose to cover the KQ507 crash from your own point of view. I do like your channel. As a crew for Kenya airways at that time this accident came as a shock and it's something I will never forget. I remember taking off from the same airport on another 737-800 a day after the lost aircraft had still not been found and I just looked down the dense forest with hopes of spotting something.
It was a really sad time for us and the families of the lost crew and passengers.
The weirdest thing is I had a strong premonition of a KQ plane crash in November 2006 the year before this fatal accident happened. That was the time I joined the airline as a trainee flight attendant. What's different in the dream was that I was in the plane and there were many survivors me being one of them. In the dream the plane ditched in the ocean.
I knew one of the crew, Lydia, it was so sad
@@fifirose6123 sad indeed. I knew her as well we were colleagues. A truly jovial lady from Kisii.
Stop your village arrogance.Soon nobody would fly Kenya airways...
Hello Freddy am Robert have seen you have commented on mentor pilot and decided to say hae. I will love to be a pilot in Kenya am already a graduate from Maseno university, is there anyway you can help
@@Rubanifarms Sorry I am not in any position to assist you with your career progression. I was working there in 2006-7 and left forever. Good luck though.
I'm pretty sure aviation has officially become my new special interest, and mostly thanks to this channel. Thank you so much for providing constant refueling to this fixation!
Same
I do what i can! Thank you for supporting.
@carlitocanadiancool6516 considering its safer than driving, no it absolutely shouldn't
@NHL 2K10 that’s just not accurate. If you are to forbid things based on how dangerous they are, you will have to start with things like motorcycles and cars.
@@carlitocanadiancool6516 I highly suggest you look at some numbers of annual losses of life in relation to passenger volumes in air traffic compared to other forms of transport. Be ready for a shock, as what you will find out may have an impact on your worldview.
Finally!! you covered this Kenyan flight. Very majestic work. I've been waiting on answers for this flight. Other TH-cam videos could absolutely not cover it like you did. I learnt alot from this video too. Much love from Kenya. Thank you Mentour Pilot✈️
Glad to hear that 💕
I hope you got some closure.
I must agree with you as a Kenyan that accident has never been clearly explained. Thank you Mentour Pilot for the closer
My brother in law was on this flight.
Being the wife of an airline pilot who saved our lives with an engine failure on take off and he saved many lives when the engine dettached on take off at CT international
Its all about training, training, training and experience
Sorry to hear that
I applaud your recommendation to take a suitability test before starting flight training. For some people, becoming a pilot is more about social status than passion for aviation. As an instructor, I have met a few people who started flight training with the wrong motivation. Many years ago, I was instructor for a young man on a type rating course on a transport category aircraft. His dad had paid for all of his training, and he was promised a job in an airline company after completing the type rating. You should think that he was very motivated, but as the training progressed, his performance declined. He struggled with situational awarness and emergency procedures. Remedial training didn't help. He just gave up. This was just not the right thing for him. So yes, it is better to be screened before spending a small fortune on flight training. The airline companies alwyas set the border higher than the licencing authorities.
Absolutely, without a doubt.
If a career is not right for you, it is better you recognise it early on. I love flying, but I would not be a good pilot as I am rubbish at Maths and direction!! I work in an ED as a senior nurse, and I guess many pilots couldn’t cope that either 😂❤
@@kerryoxford9232 Indeed, exactly. And to prevent huge frustration and a shattered self-confidence - and not at least: waste of lifetime.
Yep, especially with careers which can put lives on the line. It's not a big deal if you go into advertising by mistake, but a pilot, a doctor, a military officer, all those kinds of positions *have* to be filled by the right people.
@@kerryoxford9232 I get that, I’m not emotionally suited for it. I’m not constructed for confinement and boredom.
In a world full of TikTok crap, it’s great to see someone use platforms in such thoughtfulness, professionalism and detail. This content is what TH-cam and other platforms were meant to be. Excellent work.
I cannot imagine being on the flight from Abidjan to Douala...landing safely...only to discover shortly after that the place crashed on its last leg to Nairobi. Really feel for the families who lost their loved ones, colleagues, and friends during this tragic flight.
Thank you for explaining the cause of this accident in detail. As a Kenyan, the reports we received from the media at the time didn't tell the complete story. I appreciate the huge amount of effort you put into your explanations of tragic events such as these.
He's done a great job.. trying to simplify flight technical stuff
I Remember on how this incidence was uncovered in the Stormy Cockpit Episode... Whereby due to lack of situational awareness, the captain panicked and then everything went downhill from there... If only he had managed to stay calm and let the autopilot to steer the plane back into control...
From what I’ve read in other comments, Kenya’s government wasn’t much help since they basically wrote it off as bad weather.
As an avid Mentour Pilot fan who's Kenyan, I'm happy to have you cover this accident. It's the first ever air accident I ever got aware of thanks to my uncle, Captain Peter Maranga who is a retired senior captain at Kenya Airways.
There was also the ivory coast accident.... Year 2000 if I am not wrong
@@that_bloke_kiri There was. I’m still surprised that 10 people survived the crash of Flight 431
Legend, best wishes as he enjoys his retirement
Airplanes are the safest means of transportation.Airplane accidents are preplanned to sacrifice people.I hate this because it's all bad politics to kill people.
Why? You should be more happier if a Kenyan cover it
It's very painful watching this video coz initially the report from KQ was shallow. The first officer happened to be a son of my high school, Homescience teacher. I recall how the incident carried her away and took her alot of months to comeback to school. May his soul rest in eternal peace 🕊️
I can’t imagine how she felt. No one wants to outlive their children like that…hopefully his soul is at peace, and hers as well. I wouldn’t fault the first officer for anything, with the captain being a giant asshat. I hope his mom knows that in her heart.
I remember when this accident happened it was such a trigger event for me, because 7 years earlier, I lost my father in the Kenya Airways crash in Abidjan (Côte d’Ivoire). The worst part is that one friend’s older brother, was on KQ507. For many years I wanted to understand in details what happened to with KQ507 and the doomed Abidjan flight. Thank you Mentour for providing such detailed and easy to follow explanation.
Flight 431 was caused by pilot error where the first officer responded improperly to a false stall warning.
Damn
I never knew there was another kq accident apart from this
I am sorry for your loss. I lost two friends and colleagues on KQ 431
I am Kenyan and an avid follower of your videos. I have literally watched all of them and had been eagerly awaiting for this one. Thanks for presenting such a clear and detailed insight into this shocking incident. We have finally understood what happened .
I’m glad you got closure. I read in other comments that Kenya’s government wasn’t exactly helpful in giving answers and wrote it off as caused by bad weather.
Am Kenyan and I was 10 years old when this happened….OMG that captain killed all those souls 😢thank you so much for covering this
Yes, and I would underline that he killed those people. If one single mistake in a perfectly fine aircraft makes it to go down, I would name that "killing".
@@Delibro I agree …so sad 😢
@@wanjikuk7662 But reading the comments, it is so wholesome to hear so many Kenyans writing their thoughts and connections about this flight.
@@Delibro I noticed it as well. And Petter gave them the answers that Kenya’s government failed to do.
I can’t get my self to stop watching Mentour he has a way to keep you watching !
Sounds like a good thing 😂
Yeah he has a very good script
Right? I should be studying aviation or aviating, but end up spending a lot of time on this. Oddly, I don’t consider it a waste of time
Thank you! As a Kenyan, this is the first thing I searched for when I stumbled upon your channel a few weeks ago. I was a kid when it happened but I vividly remember the headlines in the papers.
Oh my gosh! I moved to Nairobi for work 5 years ago and I fly Kenya Airways twice a month, at least. I’m so surprised I didn’t know a single thing about this sad tragedy. I’m glad they have trained their pilots better. This programme was so excellently done! It was astounding and fascinating beyond measure! Thank you!
2007 to 2023.. Lots has happened to improve all piloting skills all around the world. Thank goodness.
Keep flying that airline if you have a death wish. A lot of unbelievably dangerous incompetence and cutting of corners going on behind the scenes and it will culminate in something disastrous...then there will be a commission of inquiry...thats the Kenyan style
@@marehemudanielarapmoi6424 😂😂sasa what airlines should they fly no pilot is willingly going to endanger themselves and their passengers. No matter how many corners KQ cut the decision is always to the pilots . They don’t get paid well enough for them to take off with a plane that’s not up to code.Kenya,SA and Ethiopia produce the best pilots on the continent. It’s good to give credit where credit is due and not demonize a whole industry
3:52 - you describe elements of narcissism really well - entitlement, lack of self awareness, blaming others for their own mistakes (it's always someone else's fault). And you're right, you've got very limited possibilities for improvement as this is unfortunately a very persistent personality style. In order to behave better in a limited area they would first need to know how this improvement would benefit first of all them, it doesn't really help explaining how their bad behaviour will affect others - they don't care about others. And such unpleasant people straight from the dark triad (that's what it's called) also fly planes - but if they do, they'd better do it right.
Indeed 😔
Any time someone tried to explain to my father that his behaviour was causing a lot of people problems, he instantly started talking about himself and the struggles he’d been facing as if it somehow excused all the horrible things he’d done. I had no choice but to cut him off because we need to look after ourselves sometimes too, not try and help those who can’t even care about you. I empathise with anyone stuck in a relationship with a narcissist, whether it’s a sibling, friend, lover or parent. Or in this case unfortunately, pilot.
Yep, a very good description!
@@Yuki-di2rb You did well. Toxic people needs to be removed from your life, even if it is someone as close as a father or brother. It will hurt a lot but it will pay off!
@@Yuki-di2rb Yes, making everything about themselves - also typical. Countless excuses to why they're mean, so they don't need to do anything about it. They always give us bad experiences and trauma, so better to part ways, unfortunately even when these are your parents - if possible. As you say, it's a matter of self care to do it. That's why this knowledge is so important in every walk of life. Also in aviation. Unfortunately I think this is not the first time a horrible accident happened where this personality contributed.
Nowadays, nothing haunts me more than the words "and this is going to become important very soon..."
These videos are excellent, and I apply many principles to my non-flying life. Keep up the great work!
When I'm watching a video on an accident I'm unfamiliar with, it haunts me to hear "maximum altitude reached" since I then immediately know the aircraft is doomed.
I am a pilot and Im planing to crash my next flight with 200 people on board , hope you won't be on that flight ... this will become very important soon ...
I like watching aviation accident investigation here and on nat geo. But as a Kenyan, watching this one hits differently. I had my heart in my mouth the whole time.
Kenyan here. Thank you Petter for covering this horrible accident. Patience with an inexperienced junior is a vital element in CRM
With every pilot/co-pilot! So important to work together at all times!
If you litsened to the story or followed the tragedy since 2007 you'll realize problem was not so called inexperienced junior , it was so called experienced officer
This answered so many questions I have had over the years. Especially since it happened close to more than 15 ago, I really thought it was mainly the weather. Thank you for this break down.
Now you know the government was hiding the truth by just saying bad weather. The weather didn't even cause the accident.
What I really love about your videos is the non-judgemental and human way in which you point out mistakes. Very measured. Thank you.
This is super super amazing to watch this accident investigation considering I am from Kenya and I work in the aviation industry. I am both a researcher and writer on matters of safety and security in the industry and so this one comes in handy especially on safety topics of CRM, Training, Swiss Cheese Model and character/attitude for personnel working in the industry. I am today a very happy aviator and I will share this one all over. I've just been watching other series of accident investigations from mentour pilot's channel but today I have watched that which I can best relate to. 👏👏
As a Kenyan aviator living in Australia, this story was well explained. The captain rushed the procedure, lacked cockpit discipline and was controlling to his first officer. As the main carrier connecting west Africa to east Africa, the Kenyan government did little to reassure families affected and It’s believed
“The gods of doula“ never forgave KQ. It’s never been the same again for Kenya airways.
b737 is better than B777
How did that happen
@@saintmjin how is the 73 better than the 77 😂
@@rayanaltowayan9558 that was my little son =]]
Julien daddy miss you I hope you find this.
I felt every word of your narration run through my body in chills of terror. I held my breath as I watched this , thinking of all those unsuspecting passengers at the back who trusted they'd get home safe. Im Kenyan so it hit home real💔
Problem of buying exams to get into courses one does not qualify for.
It shocks me how many times an incident could have been prevented, had the pilots only been paying attention to what the airplane was telling them through the primary instruments. When I'm on instruments or under the hood, I am SO afraid of missing something that I almost never take my eyes out of the cockpit.
Exactly
I Remember on how this incidence was uncovered in the Stormy Cockpit Episode... Whereby due to lack of situational awareness, the captain panicked and then everything went downhill from there... If only he had managed to stay calm and let the autopilot to steer the plane back into control...
Even flying on my PC, I monitor my gauges every 2-3 seconds out of habit. I think the problem is that you get complacent as flying larger planes is very much like steering a big boat and the feedback is very delayed. Large inputs tend to not end well as it just makes things worse. Certainly not yanking in every direction in a panic.
Late to the party, but as a Kenyan thank you for covering this incident. I was around 3 years old when it happened, and all I can remember is being grateful my dad wasn't on this flight, as he was travelling to Cameroon when I first heard the news. And thank you for addressing the important issue that sometimes being a pilot isn't for everyone (as we unfortunately saw during this incident).
You had so much awareness at 3? 😆
@Freddy O yes! Some ppl do. Myself included.
Hope wewe ni mrembo😍😍,are you taken🤗
@@UnknownUser-in1ok 😂😂😂😂 wow
2007...3yrs...what are you saying
The one thing I liked most about this video is how meticulously it was professionally prepared; not only the research data used but also the creation of perfect visual aids.
Petter is so polite. He never calls that pilot fate’s lethal agent. (Amended after a thoughtful reply)
All companies should screen their employees, especially when what they do puts the public’s lives at risk.
I know. This pilot was such a hack. Such a fool. And a tool that got hundreds killed. If it hadn’t killed 100+, his recovery efforts would have been hilarious. Him just randomly yanking the yoke left and right. Just hoping he might get lucky. 🤦♂️
I don't understand why an airline would promote to Commander a person who showed serious issues in CRM and personal attitude, even when being subordinate. It's bad to have a Second-in-Command like that, but outright hazardous to have a Commander like that! Is there such a shortage of Captains that they need to promote people that aren't up to that role?
Because Peter is calm, collected and professional at all times which is pretty much a crucial necessity for good pilots to have especially when it comes to emergencies. Sully Sullenberger is a great example
Probably because they’re usually dead and you’re just being a jerk to his family and relatives
Not exactly intentional to crash your plane unless you’re Al-Qaeda
i am always amazed at the amount of research you do to get to the facts behind these accidents
What never ceases to amaze me is how much “normal” workplaces could learn from pilot training. When mistakes cost hundreds of lives you come up with really efficient systems and procedures real quick. I reckon if you walked into any business, passed on a bit of knowledge, they’d see a huge jump in productivity, or at the very least safety and oversight
this. The focus on the effects of psychology and workplace atmosphere especially
@@cdreid9999 absolutely, especially understanding and accepting human limitations, and designing processes that work with them to improve performance rather than actively being counterproductive.
The most depressing of these accidents are where it would have been completely avoided if the junior pilot had just felt comfortable questioning his superiors decisions.
Yeah thats kinda fucked up tho .. how " normal " workplaces could learn ? Dont forget those flight companies make ALOT of fking money . And you think they all work fine and efficient ? I can tell you its every single fking time they are not working . And also , sure those people have to learn alot , but dont forget why they come up with really efficient systems . If they would make the same money without investing in new safer systems while people dying , they would not invest the money in safer systems .
@@cdreid9999 I could bot possibly agree more with smth! You're my hero this morning lol, the other commenter here too. People with brains, refreshing.
Its scary to know that there are pilots out there that will be unable to stabilize plane from simple turn by being startled.
People
Ikr? Yikes!
Terrifying. Some real morons out there. This man killed dozens of people with his arrogance and incompetence.
The best channel ever! I had always waited for this story for so long. Just the way you produce your videos gives me goosebumps! Keep up the good work Sir. Kind regards from Kenya.☺
Thank you, I hope I made the story Justice . 😔
@@MentourPilot Anytime. ☺ Yes you have. I love this episode!
I remember this day with nostalgia.
As a member of the in-flight crew with the company then, the news broke our hearts and immense fear. Need less to say, we all needed some counselling that we dint get. RIP colleagues.
May they rest in peace.
I remember too. We were so traumatized but never got any professional counseling. It was business as usual immediately afterwards. I can remember passenger numbers being so low amidst the somber mood. Life had to continue. Had to stay strong and hold tears while working.
I’ve been patiently waiting for your next video since binge watching nearly everything on your channel 😅 You’re an inspiration! I went from having pre-flight jitters to looking into a pilots license thanks to you!
Kenyan culture emphasizes unquestioning respect for elders/ superiors that is sometimes hard to overcome by training..
I’ve heard that culture can sometimes play a part. Korean Airlines had some safety issues because of how Korean culture influenced their training.
Are you implying that we have a closed culture ? That may be your opinion but from a professional standpoint it’s not factual.
@@a.nasongo3152 I think what she’s trying to say is that the culture of some countries can have an effect on pilot training and unintentionally compromise safety. Kenyan culture is not bad, but when it comes to aviation, it is vitally important that crew members work as a team now matter how big the age gap is.
Colonial culture imposed that in professions.
@@martino6205
Haha.. ya sure mate. It's colonialisms fault. Having respect for one's elders can't possibly be something inherent to a culture by itself right? All the colonized countries were just blank slates before the evil whities came.
I was working with Kenya Airways as a vendor at the time out of JNB, I remember when it happened. The PR and marketing manager for SA I worked with, visited the crash site a day after the accident. He came back a changed man and needed serious therapy sessions following what he saw. He was very much affected by this... he reported the carnage as inexplicably awful.😪
Thank you for the aptitude test links, just worked some. I don't intend to become a pilot but as a professional, the tests are helping me see where I'm lacking, especially about things I thought obvious but clearly knew little about!
Keep up the good work man 🙏
Your pilot testing procedure in the cockpit looks so very complicated. You’re watching the pilot’s every move, monitoring those screens, and doing your written evaluation or checklist at the same time, impressive! You must be tired out after one of these tests. I wish you could test every pilot in the planes in which I’m a passenger!
Right? I wish I could request that only Petter or Kelsey (from the 74Gear channel) fly me around 😂
There is also an effect when light is off to the side of the airplane. I first encountered that in training in Laramie, where the airport is west of the town. The lights give the illusion that you are in a bank, causing you to want to turn away from the lights to "level" the airplane (on the assumption that ground lighting should be below you.) Lightning in clouds, I learned and experienced later does the same thing.
I cant imagine the work done on each video of this series, from research to writing the script, simulating and editing..
Great job to you and your team, really appreciate the work.
Thank you my friend!
Indeed. I think it is a lot of work
I was just thinking the same thing. The re enactments in Microsoft flight simulator are top notch and must take forever to make, from finding the correct models in the correct livery to the actual airport. I'm always impressed. The one where the captain got sucked out the cockpit window mid flight was a masterpiece. Keep up the good work!
This is a great job
@@MentourPilot Is this criticism that is positive done by you to pilots all over the world?
feel so bad for the 23 year old young first officer who didn’t have a better captain by his side
Exclusive information than can be hardly found anywhere else, thanks for answering conundrums that has been with us for the past 1½ decade.
The fact that the pilot took off without clearance pretty much sums up his ability as a pilot. He screwed up before the plane even left the runway. It’s a perfect example of pilot incompetence
Indeed, exactly.
Yes.
You said it better than I, incompetence is polite for what I was thinking.
Petter and team - you continue to make the best series on aviation globally, be that online and/or on TV.
Aww, those are nice words to hear. Thank you
I know, right? Those TV aircraft accident investigations are so sensationalist and unnecessarily bloated in contrast. You have the same segments being repeated over and over again just to "build up tension". That's what generally differentiates quality TH-cam content from traditional TV imo - there's pure CONTENT instead of bullshit. If something has content for 15 minutes, it's 15 minutes long, not 1:30 hours...
@@MentourPilot you are welcome.
@ I used to love them. But they are just people screaming. Ugh. And very little detail once the great "secret" is revealed at the very end...
Thanks for the video, as a Kenyan, I was really looking for a detailed answer to this particular crash and finaly you created time to dig deeper into details. Keep up the good work, Much love from Kenya
Mentour Pilot has been a tremendous learning experience way beyond my very small number of flying hours. These videos have taught me so much I somehow instinctively knew Flight 507 had not been cleared for takeoff. Terrific work by the entire Mentor Pilot crew! May safety continue to improve, in memory of and out of respect for lives lost.
You are a golden standard in aviation reporting.
As a person who works in occupational health and safety I would say he's a gold standard in just general incident investigation communication, I struggle to imagine an industry that does a better job of responding to incidents, investigating and making changes. I'm sure it's there but the aviation industry and petter specifically are definitely very impressive.
Hi Petter, i flew from Nairobi to Douala and Abidjan and back several times in this era and was mystified by the crash. We heard from Kenya Airways staff that a rainstorm had caused engine failure. Made no sense at all. Thanks for this detailed reconstruction, which l have been waiting for!
"Engine failure from rainstorm," 🤣🤣 🤣. The government thinks you guys are idiots. It's good to see that not everyone fell for it.
This is really thorough and éducative. I've been waiting for this coverage since discovering Mentour Pilot and your research and delivery of this incident report had done it justice. Great work. Loved it!
Glad to hear that
Thank you for analyzing this accident and sharing crucial details! As a Kenyan, I really appreciate it!!!
As a Kenyan, I believe this was all down to the attitude and how each pilot worked
Being a primary school kid back then and hearing the news later that evening, was a clear sign to me to always pay attention- A lesson you can only learn from mistakes. Thank you Mentour Pilot for the critical details. Am now 100% aware of the situation after reading the recommendations and now your video. Keep up.
Happened when I was in Primary School in Kenya. Back then there was no way we could comprehend the complexities behind such accidents. All my classmates said they would never want to be pilots but for me it remained a big dream. Sadly never got the chance.
Sorry to hear that. I hope this video answered done questions though
@@MentourPilot It has helped and I am really thankful for the details in all your videos. Fascinating stuff and very important life lessons in there. I feel like almost all professions require the same kind of care and presence.
It’s not too late if you still want to fly!
Reminds me of the Korean air crash where a young Co pilot was scared to tell the senior pilot he was making a mistake because of the "respect your elders" culture which is also a thing in Africa.
why? african elders believe in witchcraft. they do not know shit
I remember I was just a kid in Kenya when this accident happened and every media station kept the news about the accident for days back to back even though I didn't understand much of what was going on, It was so terrifying. Such amazing video I've finally understood step by step what happened. Thanks a lot.
I had just been enrolled into boarding school that year so I completely missed all of this. None of our teachers ever mentioned it either. At least I came upon this properly explained coverage of the accident.
@@mia.__ I mean it was immensely overlookedin school but the media would say its just bad weather
When there's no horizon, flying an airplane without looking at your instruments is sort of like driving without looking out the windshield. Incredible. Infuriating how people can fly a perfectly good aircraft into the ground.
As a pilot I always thought a ding or chime along with a soft voice announcing when a system is turned on would be a nice additional confirmation. This of course couldn’t be on all the many systems but could be on quite a few. Much like apps on your phone have different alert chimes for different apps, this audible confirmation along with the normal visual confirmations would help. In this case of the auto pilot he would not have heard the notification which may have caused him to confirm visually.
I have this for my wireless earplugs when the battery low and it’s not too distracting when doing tasks. I can see why it would be a good idea as a pilot. Reduces the human error. There is one when it’s disconnected, right?
I have been waiting for you to cover this accident!! I love your explanations as a subject matter expert. I am not a pilot, but I love the science of aviation. I also like to think of CRM in my position of managing my employees, and I stress attention to detail. Just because you've done something a thousand times doesn't mean you can't make a mistake
Kenyan here, I lost 4 good folks on the flight. magnificent coverage as always. massive fan of the channel, keep up the awesome work.
I can't imagine the terror of that young first officer as the guy he's supposed to be learning from, supposed to be a professional training and airmanship partner, just panics and starts shouting 'We're crashing!' and randomly yanking around the controls, randomly flicking the autopilot on and off, clearly just with no idea what he's doing or why.
Thank you Petter for yet another 5* review. Some live and learn, others do not, but we are all deeply indebted to those like you who strive to make aviation safer. RIP to those involved in this tragedy.
It's hard to believe this flight crew screwed up so badly. A tragic accident. As always, a fantastic analysis of an airline accident.
My first flight lesson in a little Cessna the old bird was really well kept up, but had just a bit of a cant to the right. The owner just kept reminding me to look at the artificial horizon to keep the wings level rather than relying on the rudder to match the compass heading. Loved my XAv program!
I just wish you knew how many people are educated by watching your videos. A special thank you for covering this horrible disaster from my country Kenya 🇰🇪.
I certainly noticed. Some of the people who commented lost friends and relatives in that crash and I’m glad they got some closure.
As a Kenyan,I have always wondered what really happened that fateful night at Duala.... thanks a lot for this factual account of the crash...
Thank you so much for this informative technical video with great inputs on pilot error and aero dynamics.
Yes, an aptitude test at initial stage is very important.
My heartfelt condolences to the familied of all the precious souls aboard flight 507.May their souls RIP.
Pray such accidents does not happen.
May God be with all the Pilots as they command the flying marvel.
Thanks again for this excellent video.
Much appreciated.
Watching from Nairobi, Kenya. This incident was a dark chapter for Kenya Airways
I can imagine..
Mentour Pilot. I'm an avid fun of your astounding work. I have watched 95% of your videos. I'm an aircraft maintenance Certifying engineer & your videos have really assisted me to Become a better person. I'm so humbled, Be blessed......
Aww, that’s lovely to hear!
@@MentourPilot , you are always very meticulous in your analysis of each incident / accident. You are my Mentour
What a great clear and concise analysis! Great job @MentourPilot, I've learnt a thing or two on principles of flying an aircraft and the actual circumstances that led to the accident.
I requested this a while back, thank you for covering the story, we really needed to understand what happened in this very sad and catastrophic incident. sending lots of love from Kenyans 👏👏
My condolences to anyone who lost a loved one 🙏 💔
I always find the pilot insights fascinating. Whilst other channels cover the mechanics of the accidents well, having the insight of pilot history and personalities adds a valuable dynamic to understanding these tragedies.
Unbelievable. This captain was totally unable to do his job. Its a miracle that he didnt crash a plane earlier
Glad to see this story featured on mentour pilot. I like how you break down things such that a layman can understand. Nowadays I know definition of terms such as; ILS approach, toga, GPWS, CRM, PAN PAN, May day, etc etc
I remember watching the Air Crash Investigation episode of it and was just shocked with the way he treated the first officer.
Yes, indeed.
I've flown Kenya Airways frequently on business trips in Africa (US professional). Always competent and comfortable. Even had a flight with a female captain (a celebrity in Kenya I imagine!) and she kept us out of trouble in a t-storm, aborted our landing a few hundred feet up and went to a holding pattern. I thanked her on the way out. Flying in Africa is extra challenging because the air traffic is very light and remote so captains don't have as much weather information. RIP the lost souls.
It’s still sad that it took the loss of so many lives for Kenya Airways to start taking the personality of their pilots into account.
I may have convinced a friend to try flying again because of your awesome videos. He is a nervous flyer, especially after a hard landing about a decade ago. He’s been watching these with me as his wife wants to book a vacation, I hope he goes through with it. Thanks so much for these videos .
Kenyan here . I was about 6 when this accident happened . I barely understood what was going on but I remember I couldn't talk about ever being a pilot after this . This accident shook the country to it's core .
This brings memories, bad memories...
I remember the day when I heard the aircraft had disappeared... upon learning who the Capt was, I said, he's killed people...
I remember two previous incidents with the same captain, one not directly with me... and I wonder would we have averted this 😭
Maybe yes/no... it's sad that so many people lost their lives.
Kenya Airways is really safety oriented and takes serious CRM.
We pray this never happens again 🙏🏾
Thank you for the detailed and fact-filled explanation.
This shows you do your research very well.
I hope this will be used to avert future accidents.
Very interesting to understand what actually make these accidents happen. As a customer, it's always scary to be ignorant of what actually cause these tragedies! People keep saying aviation is the statistically safest way of transportation, yet are unable to tell anything about how accident happens. When sitting for the first time in those (basically) large winged alluminimium bus, I prefer to know! Hearing that every pilot goes trough specific training every 6 month is crucial to understanding how we are taken care of as passengers. Thank you Mentour Pilot : )
Oh My, TYVM for your comment, I didnt realize anyone conceptualizes commercial aircraft as "basically large winged aluminum bus". Did I miss a joke? sorry. If I could make wishes come true, I'd wish for every air passenger to seek & gain basic knowledge concerning aircraft design, safety redundancies, (back up systems with back up systems for the back up systems), Beyond the hull composition, as aluminum aircraft are mostly those of past history. Newer aircraft use composites more and more with each new release from either Airbus or Boeing. Glass Cockpits, and fly by wire are also items you may wish to take a peek into. Aviation safety is paramount, which is certainly what keeps the industry miles ahead of all other means of travel on & around earth.
If it’s any further comfort, know that it’s not just the pilots. It’s the flight attendants, the engineers, ground handlers, security, ATC, everyone who works airside does their best every day to keep the aircraft safe.
Fascinating analysis. As a non-pilot (I play sims), but someone who designs and implements user interfaces, I find the way autopilots work really unintuitive. It's such an important function, yet you have to pay attention to know it's on/off. When you're so busy, it should be something that's really obvious. I would literally have a coloured LED strip across the dash that changes from red to green so it's impossible to miss.
It's quite disturbing too that this plane could basically be crashed by mistake in bad but manageable weather. A 'button of last resort' where the AP takes over and returns the flight to horizontal flight is surely something that's possible, even as a retrofit? Anyway, always enjoy these videos, even if they're a bit unsettling.
In a programmer myself and fully agree. So often problems occur because being a pilot requires monitoring hundreds of things. A plane, for example, should be able to detect when zero controller input is given for a prolonged period of time when the autopilot is turned off. That should be an audible warning
The same thing is done for cars with auto driving abilities
I agree wholeheartedly. I find these user interfaces to be rather poorly designed. Granted, there are reasons why they are they way they are and it would be exceptionally difficult to revamp them entirely considering the amount of testing and retraining required. But I think a long-term planned modernization of these interfaces is long past due.
Some military aircraft have such a button and even a system that returns the plane to level flight when zero inputs are detected for a period - it's saved lives of pilots when they've blacked out
A lot of accidents show the pilots failing to notice a couple of tiny letters on a tiny screen, it really looks like they could have made it way more obvious.
Thank you so much, for this insightful narration of what led to this tragic accident. Here in Kenya, it was thrown under the carpet, and simply termed as bad weather.
Your videos are riveting. Top notch research, simulations, voiceover, editing... Excellence in every step. Thank you for educating us, especially when the incident ends poorly - it must be hard for you and your whole team. Much appreciated.
I have been waiting for you to do this review of KQ507. Being Kenyan. This was always a mystery of why a brand new 737 would go down.I have family members who are retired KQ 737 pilots. Especially for an airline that had only until this accident one hull loss being KQ 431 . Thank you
The research on this particular crash is quite articulate and comprehensive. Awesome scripting and simulation!!