@@FishDinners OH WOW, LIKE 2 CASES OF POLICE BRUTALITY IN A COUNTRY OF 365 MILLION PEOPLE, ALL POLICE BAD AND WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM WITH SOCIAL WORKERS WHO WILL SIMPLY TALK DOWN CRACKHEADS WITH GUNS
"Our prisons are overcrowded and we can't send prisoners to America anymore. Should we stop locking people up for low-level financial debts?" "Nah, let's colonize Australia and dump them there."
A lot of the people who were sent to Australia on the First Fleet were convicted of stealing...napkins. They didn't call it the Bloody Code for nothing!
@@KnakuanaRka Due to the murder of George Floyd some "enlightened" American politicians are proposing to remove the police force (at least in some states) and have a citizen's militia instead. Yes, they are serious. Yes, the journalists reporting what the politicians are saying are also serious. No empire lasts forever though Americans are convinced the USA will be different.
I think that Robert Peel is the person who John Keele was named after, the man who would shape the career of policeman Samuel Vimes in the Discworld books. Vimes enacted quite a few reforms of his own on the police force in his city, going from a bunch of louts who sweep up the corpses and the drunk to get them out of the public eye to a police force fitting a metropole like Ankh-Morpork.
I do know that in Discworld, police officers are eventually called Sammies or some variation of, which is a refrence to how police officers in England got called Bobbies after Robert Peele.
That seems very likely, especially with how Robert Peele features in Dodger. Of course, John Keel would never deal with the potato blight as Peele did.
It's wild to me that it's been known that poverty is a key factor in crime for nearly 250 years and poor people are still being treated like they're the problem.
@Eric da' MAJ who cares. What matters is decreasing crime. Do you care more about preventing crime or complaining about the individual character of criminals?
@@Gear3k well if you make the prisons not terrible awful places where you get stabbed and beaten then people might think its worth it. But if you make them horrific places people wont even consider the possibility of getting caught as an option. While it is a worse kind of prison, it is still technically a potential option. You used to be able to do both by doing the rehabilitation option while at the same time building a terrible reputation thought cleverly disguised misinformation.
See, we can learn from our past mistakes. These days the Private Prison Industry would never allow someone into their faculties to inspect the places and then write multiple books exposing the barbarity. That would get in the way of their profits.
If you want to continue this story in an Australian direction, the book “The Fatal Shore” is pretty good. It covers a fair bit of British law and culture at the time, and is generally fair to the aboriginal cultures (though we now know more about their history).
@@gewurzgurke4964 Thats true but the UK also did some good like fighting to end the global slave trade stopped widow burning and exported some western ideals
I really want to find out how the "prisoners making their own rules" thing worked out. It sounds like one of those things that nobody thinks will work but is actually incredibly effective in criminal reform.
I wonder why, if the prisons were so overcrowded, that there was no massive prison revolt or riot. Something that massive could caused a ton of damage.
There were most likely, but it was the prison *system* that got overcrowded. Each prison could only hold so many, and word didn't spread to others that well.
Broken, tired and malnurished poor people vs guards with no rules on what they can do to punish people, also no room to maneuver, tiny cramped dorm cells
There's something deeply disturbing in remembering that just some years ago (five, I'd guess) where I live we have a situation in which our military police has also charged protestors with sabers drawn, as happened in the Peterloo Massacre 200 years ago. And that even after that, a lot of people in my country (and outside my country, when thinking about what should happen here) think it's alright for police to be trained to kill rather than contain.
*sees the modern prison system in the U.S* I realize this is focusing on prisons in England, but I'm certain Elizabeth Frye would be spinning in her grave upon knowing her hard work was ignored by prisons across the pond.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 not until I notice the American revolution war ended which racked up on the crimes as the video explained. Honestly I had no idea.
Ahmed Ziad Turk is such a cursed name too, it's always jarring for me to hear at the end of these videos, because of the current and historical bad blood between Turks and Arabs.
Though long an admirer of the 2 prisoner advocate societies, I had no idea that John Howard and Elizabeth Fry were contemporaries and compatriots - almost like homies!
Seeing all this history on policing and crime just reminds me how everything must progress and perhaps it’s time to review these same systems for more reform.
As others have stated its kinda sad that several hundreds of years ago folks already understood to some extent that crime and criminals in large part isn't a problem so much as it is a symptom of other problems in a society. Yet to this day folks still think it's more important to put focus on demonizing criminals and clench and iron fist of punishment at them rather then turn to the people who all but have no choice to commit crime and reach out a open hand of empathy and respect and help them away from that path.
I never realized that the "Peterloo Massacre" led to police reform in London. That's a great illustration of how one event can have unpredictable consequences.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
A lot of familiar faces in this series, but this was just kind of a wild time for England.
Could you guys do a series about Salem, the Reconquista, or maybe a long one about the British Colonies
*looks around for the wondering Walpole....
*Just strolls in* ;)
Shouldn't that be a Jonathan Wild Time?
Actually yeah- reconquista would be cool
"They needed men trained to arrest, not kill" truer words have never been spoken.
Someone tell this to the American cops
@@FishDinners OH WOW, LIKE 2 CASES OF POLICE BRUTALITY IN A COUNTRY OF 365 MILLION PEOPLE, ALL POLICE BAD AND WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM WITH SOCIAL WORKERS WHO WILL SIMPLY TALK DOWN CRACKHEADS WITH GUNS
@@FishDinnersOur Cops don’t shoot people for no reason. People look at the outliers. Damn.
So people should just ignore it right
@@Top2BottomGamingcope lmaooo
"Our prisons are overcrowded and we can't send prisoners to America anymore. Should we stop locking people up for low-level financial debts?"
"Nah, let's colonize Australia and dump them there."
A lot of the people who were sent to Australia on the First Fleet were convicted of stealing...napkins. They didn't call it the Bloody Code for nothing!
Best idea ever
Don't mind me. I'm just waiting for an Aussie to confirm this statement.
@Mullerornis Not much you can learn from aboriginals on how to run a large society lets be honest.
@Mullerornis There were an estimated 250,000 Aboriginals on the Australian continent at first contact. In 1800, London alone had 6,500,000 people.
First Walpole now Peel? Everyone’s making a cameo in this series!
You summoned me?
@@robertwalpole360 Nah, you're needed in the previous video.
Ok guys, time for more Walpole merch!
Ok the Peel cameo sucks more then the Walpole one
@@robertwalpole360 also youre dead already.
"The Hue and Cry protects our civil liberties!" Yeah, the last thing I want is random civilians policing whatever they happen to decide is crime.
Random citizens deciding what is and what isn't crime and how to catch the crooks? That sounds like the premise to an above average reality TV show.
This aged interestingly...
@@KnakuanaRka Due to the murder of George Floyd some "enlightened" American politicians are proposing to remove the police force (at least in some states) and have a citizen's militia instead. Yes, they are serious. Yes, the journalists reporting what the politicians are saying are also serious. No empire lasts forever though Americans are convinced the USA will be different.
@@mikshinee87 A claimed “citizen’s arrest” led to the cruel murder of Ahmaud Arbery. Thankfully, those offenders were rightly convicted
@@mikshinee87 Which one?
Given the obvious connection with Australia, how about a series about the early days of the Australian colonies?
Well, we already had Ned Kelly, so yeah, I'd be down for that
I think that Robert Peel is the person who John Keele was named after, the man who would shape the career of policeman Samuel Vimes in the Discworld books. Vimes enacted quite a few reforms of his own on the police force in his city, going from a bunch of louts who sweep up the corpses and the drunk to get them out of the public eye to a police force fitting a metropole like Ankh-Morpork.
I do know that in Discworld, police officers are eventually called Sammies or some variation of, which is a refrence to how police officers in England got called Bobbies after Robert Peele.
That seems very likely, especially with how Robert Peele features in Dodger. Of course, John Keel would never deal with the potato blight as Peele did.
He also integrated the force, didn't he? Trolls were hired, along with dwarves and a beautiful werewolf.
@@briangarrow448 And towards the end of the series a Goblin.
Isnt John Keele just Sam Vimes himelf in a stable time loop?
It's wild to me that it's been known that poverty is a key factor in crime for nearly 250 years and poor people are still being treated like they're the problem.
Also how they realized that the goal of prison should be rehabilitation, but countries like the US still think it's purely for punishment.
@@Gear3k US doesn't think they purely for punishment, they are also for profit.
@Eric da' MAJ no one said otherwise. However it's undeniable that there's a correlation between poverty and acting out of desperation.
@Eric da' MAJ who cares. What matters is decreasing crime. Do you care more about preventing crime or complaining about the individual character of criminals?
@@Gear3k well if you make the prisons not terrible awful places where you get stabbed and beaten then people might think its worth it. But if you make them horrific places people wont even consider the possibility of getting caught as an option.
While it is a worse kind of prison, it is still technically a potential option. You used to be able to do both by doing the rehabilitation option while at the same time building a terrible reputation thought cleverly disguised misinformation.
See, we can learn from our past mistakes. These days the Private Prison Industry would never allow someone into their faculties to inspect the places and then write multiple books exposing the barbarity. That would get in the way of their profits.
Sure they will. Just hire on as a minimum wage guard and don't publish 'til you quit. Background checks cost money!
Just a minor point: Gaol is pronounced 'jail'. It's the UK spelling.
Most UK accents have back in the throat vowels though.
@@jonnunn4196 Not wrong, but the hard 'g' was the real flaw here more so than the vowel.
It used to be UK spelling, now it's been phased out, except in Ireland and Australia.
alright i get most uk spellings of things but thats just silly
It's the antique spelling evolved from the french word for the keeper of the imprisoned.
A random Earl: "We need a police force. A *competent* police force."
Me: _sarcastically_ "NAAAH! REALLY?!"
The things we take for granted.
You know there's something wrong if you have to specify that you need a competent anything
"Gaol" is pronounced "Jail", it's just a different spelling of the same word
so it's actually the "Jail's Act"
*entirely baffled* How? I mean... just...you know... how? Go home english language, you are drunk.
@@gaborfabian1239, the g is pronounced the same as in the names George and Hengist. The final two letters indicate a dark l as in purple.
@@Ggdivhjkjl u mean like in GIF?
English is broken. :(
I mean, Oscar Wilde wrote "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" and it's just strange to think of someone misreading that poem for so many years of their life.
Love the cameo from The Invisibles' King Mob.
tbh i clicked the video just for that.
As will likely be explained in the next episode, this is why a common Victorian slang term for policemen, particularly among the Irish, is "Peelers".
Fun fact: Elizabeth Fry is an ancestor of Stephen Fry.
Why am I not surprised. Stephen Fry came from a family that values learning, and he is one of the most erudite men around.
Also.. she used to appear on one of the cash notes used in the UK.
What about Jacob and Evie
@@dauphinstudios2956 Ah yes, our favourite twins
And the series continues to tie into other episodes. I love it
After all, Justice is blind...
He is the reason justice is blind
Jk
Nice and Smooth seeing the one and only King Mob make an appearance.
Holy forking heck! That Gordon Riots were something astonishing.
If you want to continue this story in an Australian direction, the book “The Fatal Shore” is pretty good. It covers a fair bit of British law and culture at the time, and is generally fair to the aboriginal cultures (though we now know more about their history).
{Imput Irish Catholic Rebels Here}
For 500 we fought them without and we’ll fight them for 500 more
A video on British influence on the societies and cultures around the world would be great.
^this
Colonialism is UKs biggest export, that would be a depressing series
@@gewurzgurke4964 Thats true but the UK also did some good like fighting to end the global slave trade stopped widow burning and exported some western ideals
We have a ton of videos about UK already. And the influences are pretty obvious if you know about English culture already.
I really want to find out how the "prisoners making their own rules" thing worked out. It sounds like one of those things that nobody thinks will work but is actually incredibly effective in criminal reform.
Peterloo was a landmark point in the history of British democracy
I wonder why, if the prisons were so overcrowded, that there was no massive prison revolt or riot. Something that massive could caused a ton of damage.
Their were a few but in general the army was sent in to surpress it and execute the ring leaders
There were most likely, but it was the prison *system* that got overcrowded. Each prison could only hold so many, and word didn't spread to others that well.
Broken, tired and malnurished poor people vs guards with no rules on what they can do to punish people, also no room to maneuver, tiny cramped dorm cells
@Luís Filipe Andrade I think maybe that grievance and opportunity are the more determining factors.
For the same reason, that popular revolution never happen: sick and starving people arent good for revolting.
"They needed men trained to arrest, not kill."
Boy, the more things change, huh?
The ending music always gives me goosebumps. So epic
I find Fry saying single cells were too cruel kinda funny, since the Quakers invented solitary confinement thinking it would do spiritual good
As the only actual Quaker here, I did not know that.
@@mothman9713 Bold of you to assume I'm not a Quaker.
@@Windona Nani?
@@mothman9713 I too quake before the Lord. Also random fun fact: Two US presidents were Quakers. Both of them kinda sucked
@@Windona Nixon and I forget. Yeah both my parents are Quaker, my grandpa actually went to prison for refusing to fight in Vietnam.
This is a good series. I can't wait for them to cover Nicholas Angel.
I can't wait to see the next episode of this series 'cause it's so exiting to learn more about history.
0:49
Oh, that reference. The Invisibles' King Mob himself!!!
Rapidly became my favourite channel on TH-cam
TV series recommendation re:Bow Street Runners and Fielding Bros: 'City of Vice' with Iain Glen and Ian McDiarmid.
London needs a police force
Judges: *faints like a princess*
Actually, I thought that was a Memeber of the House of Commons.
That's not a judge it's a member of the house of lords
@@DavidChipmanHouse of lords not commons
0:45 That's King Mob from Grant Morrison's The Invisibles.
(It's a comic book reference.)
3:38 Serving in the Royal Navy at this time, has been described as "Like prison, with the added risk of drowning!"
*John Fielding didn't wear Daredevil's costume*
I'M ON STRIKE! I WILL NOT LIKE THIS VIDEO! I'M SO RIOTING! WALPOLE TO ME!
Did you mean Walpeople?
@@Wraithninja1 WALPEOPLE UNITE!
OMG HE ACTUALLY DID IT
Henry was awesome , there's no way you can beat that.
Enter his brother ......... whoa
The inspiration of Marvel's Daredevil
*immortalized. That came out so wrong 😀
John Fielding is the Birdbox Challenge Champion of the century
I didn't know that Peterloo had this effect on the movement for police reform. I also did not know much about the Gordon Riots.
Every week is a new chapter of history for me :)
as a criminal justice student this series makes me excited
The Hue and Cry is a system that only works in Skyrim.
There's something deeply disturbing in remembering that just some years ago (five, I'd guess) where I live we have a situation in which our military police has also charged protestors with sabers drawn, as happened in the Peterloo Massacre 200 years ago. And that even after that, a lot of people in my country (and outside my country, when thinking about what should happen here) think it's alright for police to be trained to kill rather than contain.
Which country is that?
@@ILikedGooglePlus Brazil
@@psicominstrel I'm sorry about Bolsonaro, and Fascism, and everything else
*sees the modern prison system in the U.S* I realize this is focusing on prisons in England, but I'm certain Elizabeth Frye would be spinning in her grave upon knowing her hard work was ignored by prisons across the pond.
“Gaol” is just the older way of saying jail, it’s said the same way.
Gaol is Gaol!
I love the animation at 4:13 - 4:20. "We are Free". I guess us Americans got that from somewhere.
Elizabeth Fry would end up on the £5 note
I always wondered who was the lady in those fivers. Thanks! Now I know!
Cold, the air and water flowing
Hard, the land we call our home
Push, to keep the dark from coming
Feel the weight of what we owe
I always wondered why Britain back then didn't have law enforcement until too many riots are bad enough and costly for the Military?
Can't become a police state if you've got no police...
It’s not so many. And you notice how long period this series has covered?
@@sarasamaletdin4574 not until I notice the American revolution war ended which racked up on the crimes as the video explained. Honestly I had no idea.
1780 a Winter's Ball and the Schuyler Sisters are the envy of all
Sacred One if you could marry a sister your rich son...
This is a great series thank you!
Weird, people back then thought records keeping as a "surveillance" system
This seems familiar. Hello from Jan 6th 2021
Wow, can you imagine that ? Law enforcement who focus on making arrests and not on killing? Wow! Now were can we get one of those?
Move to Canada or Britain
So…sir John Feilding is basically Real-Life Toph Beifong. Cool.
How did I not draw that parallel, I-
I love this channel 💙
I just love how history is literally "b-buh...money!"
"freed by his majesty king mob" is pretty metal actually
i think we have a lot to owe to the patrons but Ahmad Ziad Turk, Joseph Blaim and Dominic Valenciana because they're almost always on these videos
Ahmed Ziad Turk is such a cursed name too, it's always jarring for me to hear at the end of these videos, because of the current and historical bad blood between Turks and Arabs.
Gaol is pronounced as jail in England.
And both back in the throat (dark vowels compared to American accents)
"we needed men trained to arrest not kill" sadly i think that needs to be present tense
@Paul Calixte handing out military gear to unregulated citizens**
Can you spot Jonathan Wilde's "Best Crime Boss" mug?
Yes
Some strong restraint from the lack of blind justice puns here.
who else noticed Johnathan Wilde’s “Best Crime Boss” mug on the shelf?
"There were no American colonies"
British North American remained in existence until 1907
I've seen FMotL, sovcit, and other 'liberty!!!!!' oriented people describe transitions like this as 'when things started to go wrong'
Though long an admirer of the 2 prisoner advocate societies, I had no idea that John Howard and Elizabeth Fry were contemporaries and compatriots - almost like homies!
Everytime you think it's a two-parter, there's more and more
I'd like to see a video on the evolution of leadership in war
It would be great if you made a serie of videos about Napoleonic Wars
Reference to The Invisibles? Wow! I love you guys
I appreciate the tiny King Mob from the Invisibles
Seeing all this history on policing and crime just reminds me how everything must progress and perhaps it’s time to review these same systems for more reform.
You should cover the fall of the Eastern Block
they sotra did
Velvet Revolution
"They needed men trained to arrest, not kill." Evidently the US didn't quite understand the meaning of that sentence
Well to be fair it’s population is made up of decedents from criminals so that makes sense
Justice is blind - he is just and literaly blind...... oh my
Caught that little nod to The Invisibles there. Noice!
an 18th century real-life Matt Murdock aka Daredevil?!
No offense, charge at the mob with saber on horseback does looks awesome and cool.
FYI, gaol and jail are different spellings of the same word, so they are pronounced the same ;-)
“Trained to arrest NOT KILL.”
*gasps in american* 😂
I’ve picked up Hoi4 well enough but CK3 is where I draw the line.
How are you suppose to pay for a debt if you are in prison.
8:10 "gaol" is pronounced "jail"
MKD247 THANK YOU
And in UK, the vowels are dark.
Really? That is helpful, I would never have guessed that from its spelling...
@@GandWizard, it's phonetical. The g makes the same sound as in the names George and Hengist.
@@Ggdivhjkjl are you sure George and Hengist have the same G?
This scenario would make a kickass open world game.
The term Cop comes from “Constable on Patrol” 🧐
God i love this outro music
Love the Grant Morrison cameo.
anyone getting the ankh morpok flashbacks?
Pretty certain Ankh-Morpork was based heavily on (old) London, as satire.
Pterry was, after all, English.
His Majesty King Mob?
What is this some new joke about the french?
Gaol is pronounced "jail", don't ask why.
'G' can be pronounced as 'J', vowels can be pronounced by their letter names, and the vowel before 'l' is often quite soft/weak.
Because English is stupid?
Questions will be punished with linguistic history.
person:We need a police force
Person in background:-FAINT-
me:oh wow-
As others have stated its kinda sad that several hundreds of years ago folks already understood to some extent that crime and criminals in large part isn't a problem so much as it is a symptom of other problems in a society.
Yet to this day folks still think it's more important to put focus on demonizing criminals and clench and iron fist of punishment at them rather then turn to the people who all but have no choice to commit crime and reach out a open hand of empathy and respect and help them away from that path.
I never realized that the "Peterloo Massacre" led to police reform in London. That's a great illustration of how one event can have unpredictable consequences.
Robert peele is back
Certainly a complicated character
Only 2 e's in his last name. "Peel" as in apple peel.
Always a pleasure
You should do one on another country's police force development next!
When everyone the Channel mention all relate to each other. *yeh it all coming together.*
'Gaol' is pronounced the same as 'jail', and has been since the 16th century