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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- The show Andor is different compared to other Star Wars content on Disney Plus. In this video I explain why that could be a problem for the future of the franchise...
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#starwars #andor #epicsell
People who made Andor should make Thrawn series or movie. In Andor almost every empirial officer (even low rank) feels way more competent and intimidating that the Grand Admiral in Ahsoka.
What exactly makes Thrawn incapable? The only major loss he had was due to something outside of his control. Yet another Force User (Baylan Skoll) interfering with his plans by abandoning the group. Either way, he still got the time he needed. The entire goal of Thrawn was to delay the heroes long enough to make it back to the Galaxy. He successfully did it. He KNEW how difficult it would be to hold Ahsoka back from his experiences with Anakin/Vader. And he did it while losing an extremely small amount of assets in the process. The Tactical goal was achieved and he didn't expend anymore resources than necessary to do so.
So, tell me, what did Thrawn do wrong again?
I don't think the Andor group could do Thrawn correctly anymore than Filoni + Zahn (yes, Thrawn's creator assisted with the Character in both Rebel and Ahsoka). Part of the problem here is that you're trying to translate the thought process of an incredibly complex and intelligent character from the Book to the screen where you no longer get that internal insight that books can give you with characters. Thrawn is a really hard character to write for the screen, period.
@@Eagledelta3 He could have easily gotten out of there sooner, or destroyed the temple with the heroes on it with the armaments on his SD. Also the scenes with the Death Troopers were always so contrived with them running after the heroes instead of using their ranged weapons when it made sense.
Edit: Also he failed for years to apprehend/kill a hobo.
@@Eagledelta3 In the first place, the scenario setup by the writers did not really make a great amount of sense, but he also makes multiple questionable decisions where he neglects using adequate and available resources to deal with threats for no clear reason.
That by itself could be overlooked, but the fact is we never see ANY kind of situation where Thrawn's competence is demonstrated through cunning action. The whole escape feels like a forgone conclusion and just an excuse for a few fights that give our heroes a chance to show off, and give Sabine an opportunity to activate her new force abilities. There was no real tension, hence why Sabine and Ezra are just lollygagging around catching up and hanging out with the turtle people, so much so that they don't even discuss the situation with Thrawn for quite a while after meeting, as if it's not that important. The stakes just don't feel real and the heroes never really feel threatened by anything he does, nor do they act as though they're genuinely worried about what he could do. The fact that the Night Mothers are even present on Peridea for him to ally with is already just a massive plot contrivance that strains credulity, but his escape doesn't even feel like it's the product of his own cunning. It's more down to the Night Mothers and him sacrificing Elsbeth, which simply doesn't add any weight to his character.
I do agree he's a difficult character to write and I also question whether any of these screenwriters have the talent to pull it off, but that is really the OP's point. Somehow the villains in Andor feel closer to what we imagined Thrawn would be than what we actually got.
no, for the love of the force dont. that would finish star wars . the next movie is our only hope 😩
- yoda :there is another one 😳🤣
@@Eagledelta3 um... Thrawn didn't manage to find Ezra (who wasn't even hiding, nor was he very far away) in LITERALLY YEARS of searching with a whole Star Destroyer's worth of troops and vehicles and scanning equipment at his disposal. Sabine found him on her own in half a day. Tell me how Thrawn is highly capable and frighteningly efficient. Go on. Tell me. I can't wait.
And that's just one example.
Kenobi was a joke. Andor was deep, and it was complex and showed the dangers of the Empire, and how far people were willing to go to oppose it.
if Kenobi was a joke, how would you rate Book of Boba Fett?
you don't understand Kenobi then. There's some very deep psychology in Kenobi tbh. Obiwan even admits he lost, the jedi lost, and to move on. He is a defeated person, he has very little reason for existing outside of protecting Luke. Owen of course is more or less trying to deprive him of his only mission left in life. He's nearly given up on life more or less. He has lost his entire self-identity. He has even lost the ability to use the force. Suffering regret, self-guilt, PTSD, and effectively being required to live in hiding to continue on for some pointless purpose, he goes on one last mission to save a little girl whom he was sworn to protect. In doing so he self-heals emotionally, spiritually, and gains his former power as a Jedi Master to defeat vader.
I would have liked to see two seasons, but the one season pretty much completes the character arc of Obi wan. It answers the question of what Obiwan was doing between the fall of the Republic and the time he gives luke his father's lightsabre
@@ryangossett8211 Book of Boba Fett was very interesting actually. I was impressed they started out with him in the Sarlacc. But Boba Fett is one of those weird characters, he's mandalorian, but yet he's not mandalorlian. It was interesting to see the differences between the Tusken tribes as well. When you compare the Tusken from BoBF to others from the other movies, games, and books (and yes I know we're dipping into Expanded and Canon here) but it's telling.
BoBF is about a man trying to find and redefine himself. He's not just about the money or the reputation anymore. He wants to build and protect something, in the only kind of life he knows, the criminal side of life.
I'd like to see another season to be honest. Cobb Vance was good character. And it would be nice to see him back in the land of the living.
@@daomingjin Deep psychology... he's suffering PTSD from the Clone Wars; he's wondering how he failed in his teaching of Anakin, for Anakin to fall to the dark side; he's suffering tremendous guilt for "killing" Anakin, his brother; he feels useless and guilty watching over a child, safe, while the surviving Jedi are hunted and killed by the Empire; he doesn't understand Yoda's final remarks to him but he's following the little toad's orders as usual, which is also a source of resentment and yes, guilt. And Owen Lars won't let him near Luke, who would, Kenobi was a walking poster child for what to watch out for in future suicides.
And then comes along the last person he expects or wants to see, Bail Fucking Organa. The man who promised Kenobi he would watch over and protect Leia, keeping her identity a secret.
He comes, a Galactic Senator from one of the most respected Core Worlds shows up on Tattooine, looking to talk to some elderly desert worker? That alone would send/should have sent up massive red flags to Imp Intel.
Kenobi didn't win his battle against Vader, he merely made it look like he "might" have died. Which is why everyone but Vader believed he was dead by the time of EP. 4. Also the Kenobi Series totally invalidates that whole "helps us Obi-wan you're our only hope" speech in EP. 4. Because it's pretty self-evident that Leia didn't know Kenobi when she was going to get him on Tattooine, and you'd think Organa would have told her he was the who rescued her when she was kidnapped as a child.
The main premise/story of the movie wasn't Kenobi and Vader, and it wasn't Kenobi and Leia, it was Kenobi and Inquisitor Reva. Her return to the Light was the real story of the entire series...
But it's so out of place with an ancient space wizard, 19-year-old kids, a sasquatch, Laurel and Hardy in droid form, and a smartass outlaw blowing up a giant ball in space.
The ISB, Stormtroopers, Imperial Army, Imperial Navy, it's Star Destroyers, TIE Fighters and Bombers are a lot more terrifying if you don't have a lightsaber and plot armor to save you. The Empire was terrifying for the average person and the rank and file Rebel soldier and pilot.
But the bad batcht alredy showed how cruel the empire is.. without bored US to death
@@FULANODETALYeah, as much as a cartoon can make them.
Stick to watching Clone Wars and let the adults enjoy actual cinema.
@@Lobsterwithinternet fuck that..andor cured my imnsonia
@@FULANODETAL Then why are you staying up past your bedtime, kiddo?
You gotta get some sleep for school and let mommy and daddy watch their shows.
@@Lobsterwithinternet i saw dune 1984 on cinema,,and was less boringthan ANDOR
I can never get over how good Andor is I think about this show every day
I'm so happy to know that I'm not the only one
Facts. You can see how wrongheaded this TH-camr is by the low views and all the comments.
the video is pro Andor btw, its a clickbait title
@@astropioneer3296
you are sooo me
@@astropioneer3296 what fkin video did you watch??? This video agrees with you.
The prison arc was the most horrifying and satisfying part in the series.
g-rated "horrifying".
there was nothing horrifying about it at ALL.
@@TheSighphiguyHeh, I guess there's always gotta be kids around who think not empathizing with realistic horrors that people go through is "cool" because it doesn't have gore.
It made absolutely no sense if you think about it
@@TheSighphiguy I used to work in the prison system in my state. The amount of control and constant fear in Narkina 5 was indeed horrifying. How would you like to live in an environment barefoot, no privacy, liquid sludge for food, and having an electrified floor that could end you at any moment, at the whim of sadists.
@@TheParadoxDestroyer I get all that, but they sure didnt instill that into me at all.
My main issue was, it was less then an episode GOING to prison....
1 episode IN prison... and less than 1 episode escaping.
this is while skipping about all the other plot lines.
NOT enough time to get you invested in any way with their plight.
to me it looked like a prison i would HAPPILY go to in lieu of an American State pen... ANY effin day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Andor is too good, i cant watch any other series anymore, i only trule care about Andor S2, rest of the upcoming titles are gonna be nonsencial, fanservice and low budget shows shot in fake environment.
Well Ahsoka sure as shit confirms this. Star Wars is dead
Exactly. I was hyped for Mando season 1 and I enjoyed it a lot. Then came season 2, which had it's flaws, but I liked it too. And finally came Andor. After witnessing it's greatness, every show released after it feels so god damn flat and boring. I hardly can enjoy anything SW related besides Andor now.
Same. Skeleton Poo? The Acoshite? Not interested. Andor for the win. BTW, ignore the childish opening to my comment, I'm joking. Though not interested in viewing them.
Just let Tony Gilroy do it all. Andor was incredible. I put it on thinking it was going to be another Kenobi, then slowly realized “wow. This is really really good!”
I had zero expectations of Andor. Didn't like Rogue One very much (meh... it was OK) and after they made such a mess of all the shows I'd actually been excited by, I thought Andor would be dismal. Wow, was I wrong.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) I don't think he wants to be tied down to a franchise like that.
@@lukew6725thats how star wars should be, it shouldnt just be fans/creators playing with their action figures (filioni) but good creators telling stories in the universe.
tony gilroy said he wasn´t a fan before starting shoting andor
@@nickscope27 no andor is not what star wars should be the dialogue is not how the characters should talk in the star wars universe
Reva: "Tell me where Kenobi is."
Leia: "Lol nope."
Reva: "Damn that sucks."
Deedra: "Where's Andor?"
Bix: "🤷🏽♂️"
Deedra: "Okay, have fun with this audio recording of dying children engineered to drive you insane."
To be fair, despite Reva's poor characterization, we are dealing with a character in Reva who wasn't fully bought into the Empire and was scarred enough by her experiences to not want to harm kids AND she had to deal with the political implications of holding a Senator's daughter as the Senate still held a decent amount of power at that point.
@Eagledelta3 yeah that's bad writing. We never see Reva give a hint of this internal conflict, so that falls flat.
@@Eagledelta3exactly why do so many fans want to see kids getting hurt in tv shows, its weird
@@Eagledelta3 OK, so, we know all that, or can work it out. Leia - a ten year old child - had no idea of any of it. And she wasn't even a little bit scared.
@@Jwa-fo6nbIt's weird that it doesn't happen.
It's like having a show about Nazis but they are horrified by Jaywalking.
Andor is one of the best things to happen to Star Wars. I’ll never believe otherwise. It is like Star Wars, but for grownups.
It’s Bladerunner for people who’ve never seen Bladerunner
@@ChadKing69Blade runner 2049 was a POS
Like the first two Star Wars movies. They were adult level in how things were presented but were watchable by kids.
No grown up would stand up to such low level script writing sorry
I still can't believe that it is Star Wars honestly
I saw this title and i was like "Holy shit. I never thought i'd see the day where someone actually dislikes Andor. Let's hear what he's gotta say."
Mans: "I love Andor"
Me: "I was clickbaited...but I'm not even mad." *Keeps watching*
Same here, I freakin love this show and it truly raised the bar.
I totally agree. Andor has raised the bar to impossible heights. Andor is a masterpiece.
It must be a joy to have been a part of that production. Now... we all worry about what comes next.
Will the rest of the story before Rogue 1 live up to what we have already seen? I suspect it will.
Just one thing... Dear God, please do not let them reveal Deirdre to be Andor's missing sister.
If they did that, they would Kennedy/Disney the whole beautiful thing right down the toilet.
100% agreed
How hard is it to spell the word ROGUE? Seriously, it's *right there* in the title, and this just keeps happening.
@@ZenMonkeyGod Lmfao yeah I know. It's spelled Roage, right?
@@TheLostArchangel666 Nuh uh! It's obviously spelled Ragugoue!
@@ZenMonkeyGod
Mon visage est tres rouge, n'est-ce pas?
Sometimes, I go home on the spellings.
Merci Beaucoup.
If I type too fast and the misspelling comes out as an actual word, I might miss it.
Thanks again for your help.
How do you bold in comments?
Thank you, thank you. I am so glad that there are people out here who see Star Wars as more than lightsabers. This show is amazing and is sad that so many “influencers” out there crap on it and crap on fans who like this show. I loved every minute of it, it showed that the galaxy really is vast and the franchise could be so much more!!
Let's hope Disney takes note of what the fan base says about Andor, and makes more future projects in a similar manner.
Unlikely. I think the only reason it turned out as good as it did was because KK didn't care about it and just left Gilroy and his team alone. But now the studio has an accidental success on their hands and the big shots will be paying attention. They're going to meddle, and they're going to fuck it up, either by incompetence because they don't understand how and why it succeeded, or purposefully because it succeeded without them and that can't be tolerated.
They won't, because they want to control the narrative and take the franchise in a very specific direction. Andor was different because it's a niche little story about an unimportant side character, they could just let it be it's own thing. And that means more creative freedom for the people working on that show.
@@Towboatin it is not good and it belongs in a alternate universe just like the sequels
@@user-bean-ys8uz9fz4x It was tightly scripted, very well produced, and brilliantly acted. The sequels were none of those things.
Never in my entire life have I been afraid of the empire. Sure Vader and Palpatine are always intimidating but the empire itself? No.
In Andor, that completely changed. I was genuinely scared for these characters and what they were going to do with them. That scene with Bix and the doctor just casually explaining how they created the torture technology only for them not to even show us what the screams sound like? Fuck man. I was deeply uncomfortable. This show is not afraid to be bold or be dangerous and it’s something that has been missing from Star Wars for quite a while.
I never thought Andor would be the Star Wars show I’ve always wanted but here we are.
The closest thing to Andor in the star wars universe is the movie Rogue one
Tony Gilroy was involved in both of them
@@MoreEpicSell I wouldn't have guessed honestly, andor is miles better
@@TheGalaxyWingsprobably because rouge one was a shit show in terms of making the film and also because there was a different director for andor
@@sundancetitan5675ROGUE***** the word is ROGUE
@@ZenMonkeyGod I’m a foreigner it’s not my fault
4:10 I disagree. Star Wars started out with moral shape shifters. We take for granted that Han is a goodguy NOW, but he was a moral shapeshifter in New Hope. Watching that for the first time, we didn't know if he would redeem himself, likewise with Lando who Han introduces us to. Star Wars has always had shadowy morally questionable characters.
I think it's a little different in Andor, though I agree with the observation. With Han and Lando, it's shady characters who come around to do "good" things; but in Andor, it's "good" characters who *have* to do shady things. There's a fine line of separation between the two, in my opinion. The movies are for that more fantastical element of pure good and evil and how characters are or become aligned with each, which I like for them to be that way. But in Andor, and to be hoped for the shows in the future, I really want that more gritty and nuanced moral grayness in characters who, by virtue of not being heroes or villains of legend, must make nuanced choices that can't be slotted purely into "good" or "evil".
@@pwh1981 ...'good characters who have to DO shady things.' ....well put. That's a meaningful distinction. I think there is value in both: expressions that explore the more grown up world of 'gray' moral confusion ....but also the more black and white moral pallet that George operates in. For George, it's clear. You're either acting out of selfishness or you're acting out of profound selflessness. And there's value in that lesson. Do or do not. ....but the gray zone is the journey, and that's valuable too. Cheers.
Andor is one of the few SW projects I’ve liked so far. It’s trying to be serious and tell a message that needs to be said in this kind of environment. It’s not doing callbacks to past movies or shows, winking at the camera every five minutes to references from a past show, or trying to fit in as many cameos a fanboy wants. It’s why all those SW channels that relied on those things didn’t like this show. I’m sad we have to wait 2 years for the second and final season. But I’m glad it’s not overstaying it’s welcome and quality still remains with the project
It's garbage
@@aako-dd1lyhow, it’s perfect. The real garbage is everything but this, Rogue One, and parts of Mandolorian and Bad Batch
@rougebluefire to me. It's all trash. Sure andors production value was much better than the other shows but the story was just lame. The stupid officer guy stalking dinner with mother storyline. The boring imperial committee storyline. Typical man on the run storyline. Everything about it was a snoozefest.
Andor is actually fantastic. You have to be a OF "Original Fan" to totally appreciate the 70's sci-fi look and feel. I wish there was a bit of comedy, it's very dark, all the time. The prison is a direct reference to Lucas "THX 1138". Frankly Disney nailed it hard. This time, it's really for the old fans who saw the original trilogy in theater. Thx
"I wish there was a bit of comedy"
I think that is a very perceptive suggestion. I've never heard anybody before say that about Andor. Andor is unremittingly dark and bleak in its ambition to be"serious" Star Wars "for adults". Maybe too unremittingly dark and bleak. Maybe unrealistically dark and bleak - all the time. Any good screenwriter knows to leaven his script with a bit of humour, at the right moments. Humour can be used to amplify the plot points too. They could have had Syril Karn's police squad do some bumbling cop thing in Episode 2 or 3. Maybe some more humour around the B2EMO robot.
b2emo was the only humor I saw
@@ShazzPotz Good analysis
@@ShazzPotzI think the absence of humor, while not inherently a positive quality of media, absolutely benefits Andor. This is a series trying to show the true oppression of fascism through the lens of a universe that has only ever engaged in surface-level criticism.
The true consequence of fascism isn’t the risk of death or the inability to speak; it’s the suffocation of ideology and human spirit. It’s the imposed fear and control that drains one’s empathy, love, hope, etc. Other Star Wars media has been full of humor and drama, but the institutions that serve as antagonists never truly deprive the characters (and, therefore, audience) of hope and optimism. It’s fun and enjoyable, but it opts to use the aesthetic of fascism as an enemy instead of using the true moral repercussions of it. Even when a space station kills millions, the poisoning and hijacking of the human soul isn’t touched on.
Andor is really the first prominent example of Star Wars media that tries to show the true horror of such a system. As such, it bears the responsibility of needing to maintain a laser-focus on properly depicting the Empire. Normally, even the most brutal view of fascism can survive a little humor, but Andor has to be especially selective as to not suffer the pitfalls of the contemporary media of the franchise.
@@Night5225
You sound like a pretentious film student. You typed 3 involved paragraphs to say that the Star Wars Empire is a harsh fascist government, and should not be subjected to humour? Well, Andor is just a TV show and every TV show can be improved with a bit of funny sprinkled here and there, even if it's only black comedy.
Thankfully we have quality star wars shows like Andor and The bad batch to enjoy.
...why the bad batch?
That's like saying pepperoni pizza and broccoli are equal
@@11SurvivorWhat’s wrong with Bad Batch?
Bad Batch is somewhat too formulaic. Especially the front characters are bordering on unflavored filonism. They're so right and fair and always win that it is hard to actually care for them.
Crosshair arc alone , especially S2, seem to give Bad Batch most of the merits
@@Gregolec Reminds me of Rebels which also only had like 2 good arcs.
@@11Survivor Broccoli pizza is delicious tho
Notice that Andor wasn't written by Dave Filoni.
Coincidentally, the only other current somwhat interesting Star Wars series - namely Bad Batch S2 - also kept Filoni as far as it could from meddling.
Dude is grave digger for the franchise if anyone ask me.
God this show rules.
Thnx for liking man! I will say one thing do. I genuinely like TLJ, despite the issues.
The character development, of both protagonists and antagonists, is breath-taking... I've never seen such wonderfully fleshed out villains. They have families, motivations you can understand, realistic dialogue, etc. It's just astonishing. I LOVE this series with the same intensity as I have hated everything else that came between the original trilogy and it...
When someone tells me that Andor was boring and they didn’t like it, it tells me a lot about them.
Andor is a masterpiece. would i like all my star wars to be like Andor? no.
i wouldnt. i like Andor as a sub genre of Star Wars. im glad i can watch this type of show and it be star wars.
but i like star wars to be star wars. that been said this is the show that i have rewatched the most out of all the disney plus shows that they have done
it truly is a beautiful piece of art.
stakes. All starwars needs is stakes. using legacy characters doesn't allow this. completely original ones do. stakes are everything.
Andor ruined star wars by showing the world that all the Disney productions were fully capable of being great enough to stand toe to toe with the original trilogy, they just CHOSE not to make them that good.
It was good but it could have easily been an independent stand alone sci fi series without any Star Wars branding.
really? it is a prequel of Rouge One, one of the best SW movies, it is about how the rebelion got togeter, i mean it is in the name of the franchise starWARS!
Not really. SW themes are fundamental to this show - the vastness and threat of the empire, the universal nature of resistnce and rebellion, the contrast between usual SW heroic fantasy and more dark and grounded approach Andor takes which makes it feel unique. But pop the hood and it's still a story of a little guys taking up a fight agains a monstrous machine and landing their blow, jusl like ANH. Nothing more SW than that.
You're right, there was nothing in it that reminded me it was Star Wars. And there was no alien diversity in it at all, everyone was just human. It was bland and boring, full of revolting, weak characters.
So it is a Clickbait-Title
I am curently trying Ahsoka again. And it simply hurts.
I do not know how that's possible but Disney shows, Andor not included, are actually became worse with time. The first ones were simple uncomplicated fun, but had some watchable merits. With each next one, theoretically more serious, their quality in terms of story and characters gets worse and worse.
Agree!!
Andor ruined a lot of modern television for me especially from Disney. I now knew it could be way better. I don’t need everything to feel like Andor I just wish more properties would respect the art of storytelling in the same way.
Dude so true. I always felt that star wars needed more stakes. Also Your style of editing is so professional. I am happy to be one of your first fans :D
Andor ruined star wars
By setting the bar too high 😂
That the later series cant even dream of getting close to.
title is hilarious because i expected to see like darth vader being like "hey get this video off the holonet back to work citizen"
Andor seems like someone realised that anyone who thought spaceships were cool in 1977 has seen a bit of family, work, and corporate life during the last 45 years.
Now, I didn't really care for Cassian's arc for most of the series, but it still kept me watching and drew me in, got me invested.
What had me hooked the most was the Imperial Intelligence parts. They were the bad guys, but I still somehow wanted them to succeed.
And then there's Ahsoka.
A show so bloated with empty scenes and unnecessary pauses between lines that a friend condensed it to about three to four hours, and it STILL felt overly long, bloated, full of nothing, with every second characted decision making me want to strangle them.
Andor I at worst went "Oh, that was a mistake", never "...if it were raining soup, you'd grab a fork!"
Andor is everything the prequels and sequels should have been. Incredibly good writing. I love how we get to see behind the scenes into the empire and experience those villains on a more personal level. You actually start to empathize with some of them, which is quite a triumph. There also many cultural elements that connect us to the different peoples. So good.
They also keep the plots simple without getting mired down in lore and introducing too many factions. I'm a casual Star Wars fan and don't get too deep into the lore. Often times I'm confused by it all, but not in this series.
Even understated action, like the tie fighter fly-bys in the mountains are tense and meaningful, and look cool as hell. And let's not forget the cute robot that tugs at the heart strings!
The plots are deep and smart. The senator reluctantly offering her daughter to the thug's son as a political move is disturbing and shows how much trouble she is in and what she is willing to do for the cause and it's all presented in a clean, simple way. God this is good.
For me it feels like Star Wars, or at least what I want SW to be. The settings, themes, characters and goals place it solidly in the Star Wars space (no pun intended). Yes, the directing style and pace is a bit different, but that's ok with me because it's so high quality.
Hopefully Disney has cracked the code with Andor and there may be hope for future series.
Andor is Star Wars for old people. No Jedi, no Sith, no space battles, no interesting or even remotely impactful combat.
Just my opinion but I don't care about non force sensitives. If I want a show about normal people I'll watch the office. People watch Marvel or Star Wars because they want to see extraordinary beings do extraordinary things
Where exactly is the good writing?
@@JustTheFacts45Couldn't be anymore wrong when half of the fanbase adores someone as lowkey ordinary as Boba Fett or Din Djarin. And obnoxiously chants "this is the way".Then you have absolute badasses like Captain Rex, Cad Bane, and Han Solo.
@@JustTheFacts45 Andor has the most impactful combat out of all of Star Wars... battles that actually build suspense and make a difference in the story. There is no point in having jedi and sith if there is no story behind any of it. Star Wars isn't just empty and flashy lightsaber fights - it's an amazing story and Andor encapsulates that perfectly.
Sorry but if you think the Prequels have bad writting then you don't understand nothing
One thing I have noticed (and do not like) with Andor, and all of the other Disney Star Wars shows and movies, is that the characters do not talk like Star Wars characters.
According to some interviews from George Lucas and other reports, he took inspiration from classical acting from the Golden Age of Hollywood (1930s and 1940s). Look at films like Casablanca or Gone With The Wind (or any of the Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers film serials), then watch any of Lucas' original six films and I believe you will notice the similarities. I always thought that was a genius idea to take classical acting and put it in another galaxy.
However, once Disney took over and Lucas left, Star Wars no longer feels like "a galaxy far, far away" anymore. The characters talk more like people on Earth with current vernacular and swear words (the word "shit" used in Andor, for instance). Current vernacular works in shows like the Expanse because it takes place in our galaxy and most of the people come from Earth. But it doesn't work when you put it in Star Wars. Now before you say anything, I know that Han Solo said the word "Hell" in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. The difference between that and what Disney is doing is that Star Wars was still finding its footing in 1977 and 1980. By the time you get to Return of The Jedi in 1983 and the prequels in 1999 up to 2005, the characters stopped saying that word. Now it's commonplace for them to not say "Hell" because they are from a different galaxy, so they would not know any of our religions, thus not use "Hell" as a swear word.
Another reason that Andor doesn't feel like Star Wars to me (and it's not just because it has no lightsabers or pew, pew, pew) is that it felt more like they were trying to go for a feeling similar to Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica or that of the Expanse. The problem is that that type of science fiction doesn't fit with Star Wars. Star Wars is supposed to have the feeling of a grand space opera similar in style to the classical acting seen in 1930s-1940s Hollywood, even when you focus on a non-force sensitive character. Now there have been cases in the original Expanded Universe where some stories didn't focus on Jedi. For example, I read one and a half of the X-wing novels a few years ago and while they focused more on non-force sensitive pilots and felt more like a spy espionage type story, they still felt like I was reading something from a galaxy far, far away.
In regards to the dialogue in the prequels, I was able to relate to the characters despite what people considered to be "clunky" dialogue, because I understood what Lucas wanted to do. Also, I am a fan of some of those older films and am a fan of that type of acting. The original King Kong from 1933 has a similar style to how the dialogue was delivered in the prequels, and it is one of my favorite films of all time. I think the other problem was that some of the fans hadn't watched those older films, nor read about Lucas' inspirations, so they jumped to the conclusion that it was silly and stupid, which was unfair.
The old style (Golden Age) acting is exactly what George wanted to do. It gives the saga a more timeless feel. If you look back at those older films, they are going to seem awkward to a modern audience, because most of them didn't grow up watching those films, or weren't born at the time those films were made. In regards to Anakin coming off as awkward with his speaking, especially in Episode II, he's supposed to be awkward. The reason his "I don't like sand" moment with Padme seems silly is because he was chosen to be a Jedi at an age that the Counsil thought was too old and has spent the next 10 years training to basically become an intergalactic monk. At the time of the Old Republic, Jedi were not allowed to have any intimate relationships with anyone, they were not allowed to marry, and not allowed to have children. If Anakin had been taken to the Jedi Counsil immediately after his birth (which is what was normally done), he might've turned out a different man. But since he was forced to leave his mother when he was 8 - 10 years of age, after promising her he would free her one day, and being told to let go of those he loved, he has all these emotions running through his head and his inexperience with Padme shows this.
The other reason, I believe, that the dialogue could come off as campy and awkward to audiences is that the characters are aliens. How they talk to each other may seem awkward to us, but it is normal for them. They shouldn't talk like we do. Disney tried doing this, and look how that's turned out. I'd rather have the characters seem awkward (even in the OT, they talk a little like this) over the use of current vernacular in a galaxy far, far away.
Another theory I have regarding the Star Wars galaxy is that while we, the audience, are hearing the characters speak English, they aren't really speaking English. It's just translated for the audience. Throughout the six films, it's been revealed that the galaxy has a universally written language (Aurebesh), but we never hear them speak the language. That's because it is translated to English (or any other language on Earth).
Oh, and for the record, I know that in the original version of "A New Hope," there was English lettering on the tractor beam readout and Lucas added the Aurebesh in the "Special Edition." However, he did have Aurebesh in the later films, so it made sense for him to add it in the original film for continuity.
I loved Andor. It maybe my favorite show ever
If star wars is smart they'll keep whoever is responsible for andor and put them in charge of everything else
That is too good to be true, they are gonna give SW to another big name that doesnt know anything about SW.
@@fabianhm77 that series had me re watching rogue one and new hope I cried when when they played that speech from his mom
@@LambSauceLocated im planning on re watching rogue one =], guess it is gonna be a rainy day
@@fabianhm77 if you're really sad after just watch the Luke trilogy (right where rogue one leaves off) it'll definitely help in the end when they're celebrating
Sadly tony gilroy will not be doing anymore star wars projects as he really isn’t a Star Wars fan
I hope so to, but I think what Andor shows us is that getting great writing and a budget and the right talent to put it all together is an incredibly rare thing, no matter the universe. Consider how many chances the Star Wars IP's owners have had to simply continue something great, let alone build on it and deepen it, and failed. I don't think all those people are talentless idiots. On the contrary, I think lots of smart people are rightfully trusted to do the work of continuing art but we all end up finding out over and over again that art is difficult. You can't make a formula and delegate it. You can't find a consensus on what it even is (the object of art I mean, in this case SW). It's like when you realize how precious life is compared with inorganic material, there is something almost infinitely precious in finding an art 'continuation' that manages to honor all the right things about the source while also deepening it further. The original series has all this gravity because it had that gift of life and truth in it, not because of CGI or tropes or fancy dialogue or groundbreaking screenwriting. While 99% of us seem able to appreciate this kind of resonant art, 98.9% of us either misattribute the source of that gravitas or lack the skills to do anything with it (like be a movie director or writer or executive or studio owner).
A great writer like Gilroy isn't a god. He's just someone that has the very common ability to relate to deep art , the more rare ability to understand it's sources, and the yet more rare ability to recapitulate that into new material, both with skill in writing and in business (getting the job in the first place). The banality of these things doesn't disrupt the importance of it in combination. Good writing and editing and directing and showrunning and production is to be revered if only for an appreciation of how difficult it is to bring these mundane things together in concert, how rare it is to give something like 'talent' then spark of life. At the end of the day they've created a living thing. Like any good novel it dusts off a shelf for itself in the library of our cultural understanding of ourselves.
Andor ruined Star Wars because it wasn't watched enough. But that can still happen when season 2 comes out.
Andor ruined star wars tv shows the same way Daredevil ruined marvel tv shows
How can i accept writing so bad aftet seeing how good things can be
Andor is Disney STAR WARS at the apex of it's prime! It was GOOD-GOOD-GOOD!! My ONLY complaint about Andor was that it was cut from 5 Seasons 60 Episodes, to 2 Seasons 24 Episodes.
step one, disregard anything that isn't andor
step two, rebuild star wars in andor's image
Kenobi and Ahsoka were like cartoons made live-action for adults. Andor was the real deal; it cranked up the gravity of the original trilogy with bone-crushing intensity.
Andor did to star wars what BG3 did to gaming
Andor was brilliant in that it skillfully and intelligently built up over a season interest in a character/group of characters no one knew they cared about before. Kenobi and Ahsoka were devastating failures because they took characters that every fan already loved and made them an illogical and poorly crafted joke. I still don't know if the writers/directors for Kenobi and Ahsoka were so high that they didn't know how to create effective dialogue/scenes/story, or were just really so bad at their jobs that they thought being a diversity hire at Disney was enough to ensure a quality production. Despite initially low viewership, Andor is rightfully growing in popularity, while Kenobi and Ahsoka are increasingly overlooked as irrelevant pieces of trash courtesy of Kathleen Kennedy and her identity politics driven "entertainment."
Andor is good, but it's not good Star Wars. It wears Star Wars' skin but nothing about it feels like Star Wars. It's fundamentally a creative failure.
Andor did what kotor II did years before, that you don't need to be a jedi to have some value in the galaxy... At times the normal people are far more capable than a jedi and has done more than jedis... Look at the original trilogy era the rebellion existed because normal people wanted to be free of the empire, while jedis were hidden doing nothing... They were fighting, their fight allow to set the stage for the events in new hope, without normal people luke and his friends wouldn't be able to save the galaxy.
Now days (thanks to feloni) characters don't have value unless they are jedi or use the force, andor is superior because it shows the struggle of the normal person in the world of star wars
I really truly hope the writers of other shows learn from Andor. Don't copy it, but learn its lessons, understand why it works so much better than everything else.
But so far, it doesn't look like they did. Ahsoka had so much potential that was completely wasted, where it was so easy to do the right thing and every time they didn't.
One of the funniest things is, that fans got bashed by actors and producers as homophobic and bigoted for criticizing The Acolyte, but absolutely no one talked about nor did mind the lesbian couple in Andor, because the show was just excellently written.
Andor set the standard for Star Wars in expanding the universe.
I liked the mandalorian, people hate on it and the second season was not perfect but its a good product overall.
In full honesty, I think the quality and style of writing fans expect from Star Wars has simply aged with them. Say what you will about the objective writing quality of newer vs older installments, (I'm not sure if it exists imo) Star Wars was never originally intended to provoke these morally complex emotions and make us explore these deep themes about what is essentially a fascist regime. Even according to George Lucas himself, it was always meant as a family-friendly hero's journey, not as a particularly commentary-rich film, though Lucas did have some takes on the Vietnam war sprinkled in there, they are far from the main focus. Even when Lucas set out to make the prequels in the vision of a morally complex film with commentary, the script was far from as good as Andor's, and he didn't fully commit to the bit of growing up with his audience. (Case in point, Jar Jar)
Star Wars evolved with Andor, and scratches an itch for moral complexity that adult fans weren't getting until very recently.
Overall, I do not think that either approach is inherently bad or worse, but I do greatly prefer Andor's. I will never have that itch for content like it for a very long time, and it generally bleeds into how I enjoy everything else. If someone didn't prefer Andor, (Like I know some of my friends and my cousins didn't or liked it less.) I wouldn't begrudge them however, we clearly just have different tastes.
Agreed, Andor is Star Wars at it's very best.
I overlooked andor at first, but now im starting to realise how much of phenomenal show this was. a bit Slow? Yes, but the core requirements of writing and presenting a great tv show were near perfection!
Andor, Severance and House of the Dragon were the best series in 2022. The Gilroys and team created a masterpiece that’s basically a prequel “Gilroy SW Trilogy” with Rogue One & Andor season 2. Andor from a cinematic masterpiece standpoint is arguably, Disney’s best project in decades. Hence all the accolades awarded.
Andor is the best show, wait, STAR WARS we’ve gotten post Disney.
I saw the title, and thought it would be interesting to hear the thoughts of someone with an opinion that contradicts my own. You know, like a well adjusted adult. But apparently I never left my echo-chamber of Andor lovers.
I remember snapping at a fool on twitter who laughed atAndor saying the characters were scared of a simple TIE fighter. They have given everyone so much power that the audience has become too stupid to realise the average person would be terrified
how bad were all the others if Andor is the pinnacle?
Andor was decent,...but it wasnt as good as all that.
im 59. saw them ALL from day one.
Andor is a 6.5 at best,....so far.
Andor did not ruined it… it made star wars alive in a way we never believed could be done. It’s like watching GOT but it’s star wars. Plotting, character developments, sneaky writing. It’s the thing we all are most excited, not only fighting scenes.
Watch the video he says it ruined it in the sense that everything else is so bad compared to it.
@@TheRogueJedii he just read the headline...
Jeez, you didn't even bother neither watching the video nor reading the comments, it seems, before jumping to conclusions. Disliked the video probably, too, even though you and the author both liked Andor. Where are we going with a perception like this when no one bothers to listen, only to talk? No understanding is possible that way.
Andor: Excellent story, believable characters, interesting world building and really good villains. I have given up on Star Wars and couldn't even bother watching Ashoka, I want to remember her as she was in Clone Wars. I may return for Andor season 2, but appreciate how Disney can ruin everything that is good about Star Wars, Marvel etc.
It is a Masterpiece
Starwars for adults
Andor highlights all of other modern Star Wars failings.
Andor did the worst thing it could have for a modern Star Wars entry: showed that everything wrong with Disney's management of it is a choice.
Disney destroyed Star Wars, the only thing Disney did good was Mando seasons 1 and 2, thats it since the prequels and originals, the sequel trilogy was trash. Rogue and Solo was good too.
Andor was written by adults for adults.
Kenobi, Ashoka, Mando (later shows), and Book of BOOBA (cuz that’s what they made of him) were written for the least common denominator…kids like my 6 year old nephew.
I will hope that the people making Star Wars films and TV series learn from and extrapolate from "Andor".
this is easily one of the best pieces of visual media I've seen over the past few years - great characters, great writing, lots of build ups and payoffs - it felt like the producers/directors really cared about their characters and their stories here, the political commentary also... the empire seems so severe, the first time seeing a tie fighter fly through the aldahni mountains was terrifying - the empire seems so much more tyrannical and twisted, and the amount of depth shown with the various factions/characters and their collective/shared motivations/fears... I'm really happy to watch this series, there's so much damn depth to it, whoever was involved in this team deserves far more time and support imo
The most striking thing about Andor in comparison to every other star wars property is the absolute lack of humor. There are no nods to the audience, no in jokes, no cute aliens. No protocol droids casually dropping E Chu Ta. Andor is tight as a drum, and relentlessly bleak and gritty. There are no space wizards with laser swords to solve every problem. These are the people on whose bones the Empire and the Rebel Alliance was built. Remember the joke about the contractors that built the Death Star? These are those millions of faceless beings who ground their blood into the Durasteel.
Andor is awesome! And I wasn’t even expecting it to be. I thought it wouldn’t be a good idea because honestly I didn’t like Andor in Rogue One although I loved the movie. I was wrong though. I can’t wait for Andor to return.
Andor was a great snooze-fest for me. And the characters were not compelling. Cassian Andor was well-written but the others were annoyingly predictable and unrealistic.
Luthen Rael is a monster no better than the Emperor - sacrificing innocents for his own selfish goals. At least I can respect the simplicity of Saw Guerrera and his motives.
Syril Karn is a gadfly that I cannot take seriously. And the Empire is still incompetent in its own way, so no real tension. Even the ISB is laughable in its own way because of how politicized and easily manipulated it is.
(On a side note regarding the Empire's competency, if the streets are clean, the water is running, and there's food on the table most people don't care who's in charge. So I don't get the uprising in the final episode outside of creating drama.)
Basically, I don't want my heroes or villains to be complicated because most people are not that complex. And even if they were, their goals and machinations can only be met through a series of coincidences that fall perfectly into place. Another rarity.
The only thing at which this series does succeed is not making everyone who is a badass is not through a lightsaber or some latent Force connection that gets awoken all of a sudden through desperation...
Try Ahsoka.
In episode 6 Sabine rides for 20 frakking minutes across empty landscape. You'll die from boredom.
@@Gregolec , yeah, that series was a disappointment, too. It showed that Filoni is much better suited to writing episodic programming. Eight episodes to tell one story was too much. He might even be better suited to writing a movie as that requires a tighter script...
@@Robert_Westwood I have almost all his work now afresh and frankly I think he is unable to write anything for even older teenagers.
His characters, dialogues, situations, ideas are always the same way simpleton, unadvanced. Like taken out from stasis. They're roughly always the same, unchanged.
I have no faith in Filoni. He's a grave digger for franchise.
The only thing I hate about Andor is that there will be only two seasons. 😢 Hopefully there will be more like it. Such a great show.
Andor may be good, but Star Wars is declining because it is denying its fairy tale roots for the sake of realism.
best star wars show, and a stands up as a great show in or out of the SW universe. Just a great show
I loved both Obi Wan Kenobi and Andor, but when you contrast them, you have to also recognize that they are exploring very different themes. Let's take your example that in Obi Wan Kenobi, Reva wasn't able to intimidate Leia, while in Andor even the sound of a TIE Fighter was enough to send chills down the audience's spine. The fact is that Andor is a series ABOUT resistance to fascism, ABOUT hidden rebellion, ABOUT the oppression of uncaring bureaucracy upon the lives of common people. So when the Empire flexes its muscles, we're meant to see them as an oppressive force so vast, so powerful, so omnipresent, and so well-armed that it's basically impossible to defeat them: and that makes them scary: from cop, to the sentencing judge, to the garrisons, to the ISB, Andor shows the empire as a nightmarish, thuggish bureaucracy.
Obi Wan Kenobi, instead, was about childhood trauma, resentment toward authority, loss of faith, and rebuilding oneself after experiencing total failure. In the case of Reva, she experienced that trauma with her near-death experience as a child, feels that resentment toward the Jedi that were supposed to protect her but didn't, and she rebuilt herself as a hardened, merciless Inquisitor after nearly dying by internalizing all the wrong lessons. So, the conversation between Reva and Leia was not meant to be scary, but REVELATORY, because Reva wasn't really talking to Leia, she was talking to herself. She was stating out loud the lessons she learned during the night of Order 66: that no one is coming to save you, that you need to look out for yourself and yourself alone. But that's also why she wasn't able to get through to Leia: because Leia hasn't internalized those lessons, she hasn't lost her faith in herself or the grown-ups in her life, so Reva's words rang hollow for her.
That Leia refused to be intimidated by Reva doesn't mean Reva was not scary: the idea of learning the wrong lessons from childhood trauma and perpetuating a cycle of violence can be immensely scary in an existential way.
One small note, the imperials we follow? They are so low on the totem poll they don't come close to the heart of the empire, and thats the true tragedy; A machine so evil that it self perpetuates until it destroys everyone and everything.
Andor respects it’s audience. Kenobi and the latest Mando s3 doesn’t.
Andor did not ruin Star Wars, Disney did.
Andow shows what Star Wars could be.
War makes every side monstrous. Andor nails that. What made 1977 STAR WARS so popular was the escapism from Vietnam, war, patriarchy, and white supremacy. We felt complicit in historical crimes but the movie was a clean slate. Good vs. Evil
No baggage
Andor put Star Wars on another level to me. I always love the saga, but Andor make feel like I felt on my childhood when I see the episode 1 on the cinema. That realistic nosthalgia for being on another galaxy on a different time. Simply amaizing and I always will be grateful with Disney for have the courage of make this masterpeace ♥
Andor is the highest quality Star Wars since Disney, although I prefer Mandalorian because it's near the same quality, but has more action in it. Andor & Mando carrying Star Wars right now, while Ahsoka was alright and a great improvement on Kenobi or Boba Fett ( Last Vader v Kenobi scene in Kenobi was cool as farrik though).
Andor doesnt feel like SW and that's why it's so good.
The worst part about this series is, it won't be surpassed. It won't be done, because at the core, Disney cares more about pulp content for kids than actual good writing.
Andor is the Blake's 7 of Star Wars. The only series I've gone back to rewatch. I will undoubtedly rewatch season 1 again.
Dont know how i get here but enjoyed this video thanks
Andor is not only the best SW, it’s my favorite series ever full stop.
A show about a side character from a spin off movie had no reason to be as good as it was. Andor is perhaps the greatest thing Star Wars has ever made, but it is very different then what people usually assosciate with Star Wars so I can understand why some peoplegot turned off by it.
He was looking for his sister.... in that one scene only.
Also the break in somewhere and steal something against the odds has been done to death especially in SW, and Andor is no different.
The Mandoverse fan in me believes Andor had no right to be as good as it was.
@Shadow_Revan I feel sorry for the fact that people have become pro-Andor drones since Andor. Something that isn't Andor standards doesn't make it horrible. Keeps those expectations in check, you'll never be disappointed.
Maarva Andor’s speech was an epic moment in the Star Wats Saga.
very right. Andor is the only star-wars that doesn't try to appeal to young audience by being cute. it makes a massive difference as it allows itself to be real and sometimes disturbing (eg torture)
I think it's successful because it has this air of humility. You can feel it. It doesn't try to be groundbreaking for the sake of it. And, ironically, that is why it is.
It's ruined Star Wars because now I want more gripping and consistent stories like this. And while I'll admit I am not optimistic, we have proof it can be done.
the fact that Andor doesn't feel like Star Wars is kind of the point imho. there has always been this confusion about what Star Wars is about: is it just about Luke Skywalker or is it about the whole universe where his story takes place? obviously, the films have went with the first option; but that provides a problem when his story arc is played out, which it decidedly has. one solution is to try and fill in all the backstories of characters who have touched on Luke's arc, but this is unsatisfying since we know already, more or less, how the story will end, so there's much less tension. the second option has its difficulties too: if it doesn't feel like Star Wars, then why have the Star Wars logo in the first place? is it just marketing? perhaps though the Star Wars universe is sufficiently rich to allow all manner of stories to be told within it if creators are permitted, and I hope Andor shows the way there
That's honestly why I liked andor. It was something different
Man, I absolutetly despise most of the Disney Star Wars stuff but Andor is a absolute masterpiece imo
0:05 In contrast, MY relationship with SW (Dizney's version) has become.. quite simple.
We don't have one.
I hope they retcon Mon Mothma's speech in Andor season 2. Her speech in Rebels wasn't as powerful as the speeches in Andor season 1. It doesn't make me want to start a riot the way Kino Loy's speech did; it doesn't make me sympathize as much as I did with Luthen Rael's speech; and it didn't made me feel as if I was freed from oppression the way Maarva Andor's speech did. It's just a speech-motivational, but just not motivational enough like the ones in Andor. It's just there...
Clickbait title got me here I guess... but when you tell me that Andor ruined Star Wars in the title, then tell me how I'm wrong for thinking that Andor ruined Star Wars...well, no one likes getting gaslit, do they?
A new hope, The empire strikes back & Return of the jedi ..... Are always in my heart. Anything else legends.