Lol right? It frustrates me when I work to make my point clear, and then someone else latches onto an aside, or misses my point entirely. "Well I agree that x point has some merit, I think that y point is a better idea" "Why are you going with y when you just said you agree with x?!" "..."
One of my best friends is an ENTP, our friendship is so sarcastic and competitive that a couple of teachers were worried we were bullying each other. Those conversations are my refreshing “battle of wits” I get almost daily.
I can't count the number of times I've seen a potential conflict coming and done everything to try and pivot around it, only for the very person/people I was trying to accommodate turn around and question my motives as if I had malicious intent. Usually led to conversations where I had to do the receipt keeping of mental gymnastics performed to try and avoid this very talk, because if you're going to question my integrity you better be ready to battle. 😆
It depends on the scenario you're talking about, but the net has given me more power. I've realized one thing, most people that know me, don't insult me, no matter how much they may not like me; it just doesn't happen. But people on the net, and people that don't know me, have no qualms. Why would I let somebody that doesn't know me let me get riled up? Call me all sorts of bad names, I don't care, it only shows you a fool, because you know nothing about me, other than what I typed. You'll also notice that those resorting to name-calling, etc, usually have nothing, or at least nothing else, once they resort to that mode. I don't argue with children, especially some clown on the net I'll never meet. Those sort of people put me to sleep. I want a bit of intellectual stimulation talking to you perhaps, and to call me names like a lame twelve-year-old, doesn't serve me one iota, and there's all sort of equally shallow people not worth my time. They simply have no power over me, and often I just laugh at them, go to sleep over them 😴, give them a lesson, or the ol' ignore them (I like variety). Once lesson commences, the few times I lower myself to that level, they're running for the hills. It's certainly made it easier for me not to care a lick about what real life such idiots think of me. If you're going to insult me, at least have something to base it on, because otherwise you're telling me about somebody else, and he's not here.
As an INTJ, I'm happy to explore differences in opinion (which is not conflict), but that's different from Enjoying Conflict...But as you said, if there's a bigger issue and higher stakes, we won't avoid the conflict to get things set straight.
I have heard that Ni-types enjoy entertaining different-often conflicting- ideas in their mind at once. And sometimes they can seem disjointed in their arguing because they will seamlessly introduce a conflicting idea just to mentally or rhetorically chew on, while still very much believing in their original viewpoint. People often mistake an INTJ entertaining an idea for them agreeing with it.
I also saw the clip from Melissa where she compares how INTJs and INFJs support their "arguments" (I think we are talking about the same clip) and I commented that INTJs dont argue for the sake of arguing. INTJ would correct if correction is needed. And you dont want the INTJ to argue with you. It would only mean they are frustrated that they had to explain. They are not enjoying the situation and they are disappointed that you dont get it all. You won me with the Klee intermission number.
A frustrated INTJ is rare to see and I dont envy whomever is in our way. I had to put Klee in one of my videos, I laughed so hard the first time I saw it 😂
When I was younger I heard a lot, that I "ate all minds" (translate from Polish), that I was arrogant and I was always denying/questioning everything - most from my family. It took me to point, that i was scared to speak, because i hate conflicts so much (they are draining my energy and often has no point) and i didn't want to be cause of it. I needed a lot of work to rebuild my confidence.
It sucks to hear that you felt that way around with your family and I empathize. I learned after time apart from my loved ones that they don't need to hear everything that's on my mind and I don't need to fully understand them to love them. I hope you found your confidence or working on reclaiming it. I'm rooting for you fellow INTJ ✊
@@justcallmejon22 I just stopped explaining them my point of view and fun fact is that they doesn't even ask "why", they just say, that im weirdo - but im not mad, i get used to this. It was exhausting to discuss with them, and the end was the same anyway, so i just shorten the process XD To regain that confidence i had to understand that the saying: "everyone has the right to their own opinion, and I have right to not care about it" works both ways, and as you said: sometimes it's better to keep quiet just for peace.
One conflict that I think INTJs have in arguing or discussing, is assuming that the other person has thought things through and has access to all the same knowledge that we bring to the discussion. The amount of times that I have made a point and had someone say "well that doesn't make sense! did you think about this other factor?" Of course I did, but the impact of that other factor is negligible and if it does occur, I have already made a course of action to deal with it. It is like you're playing cards, and you show a card and they challenge the single card that they see and think that they win, despite you still having a handful of cards that you're holding up that they cannot see. And I am in no way saying that INTJs are always right or anything. Just that people underestimate how much INTJs have thought things through most of the time lol.
I learned to go step-by-step now when I explain my thoughts. Some people claim that I make them feel dumb and I always retort with, "I just want to make sure we're all on the same page". It usually works 😅
From what I can tell, when people express themselves and we then engage them in an effort to produce clarity, they seem to perceive this as challenging their emotional process which, to them, puts them on the defensive and makes them feel judged. This reminds me a lot of HS when my friends would label me as judgmental, when truthfully, I hadn't felt like I had enough information to arrive at a judgment yet. But if you don't immediately agree or validate people, they take you as causing conflict. But I think I was around a lot of unhealthy Feelers back then. Constantly being tone-policed. 🙄
I lucked out in HS and found a solid group of Thinkers who would defend me when the Feelers accused me of causing conflict. Tale as old as time amirite?!
2 reasons why the "conflict-lover" image persists.. One, An onlooker looks at the verbal sparring and thinks oh, no, they are fighting Two, INTJ doesn't shy away from difficult discussions. I have seen most people act like there is no problem and not talking about the problem will magically resolve it (even when it is clearly not happening). Maybe you can cover this in conflict-resolution techniques.
how i deal with it, if i have a problem with some-one: i dissapear. problem gone. easy. 😂 (its what i do, when i have something more interesting to do, then a discussion with some-one who doesent seem smart enough... just energie-management)
The key may very well be, because they sense, correctly, that we get off on it at times. It's a way to stimulate our minds, and especially if we've on a recent downturn using the ol' brain, we're more likely to spring to life in some argument. Also, I think we often have a lot more going in these arguments than we realize, whereas our opponents don't really care as much, so we look like we're argument-addicts. It goes along with what I've said about how smart I might be. I'm NOT smarter than you (in reality I can't tell this one way or the other, and why should it matter?). Let's say I'm talking to an extrovert. The extrovert is perhaps smarter than me in the short run, because he's always looking for shorter solutions, but I'm smarter in the long run, because I look for longer solutions. Or, to put it another way, they may have a great solution after five minutes thinking on a particular problem, perhaps the very same one I would have if we left the problem to a five-minute thought process. The difference why I might seem smarter, is because I almost never will stop at five minutes. If their five-minute solution achieved a 95% result, and I spent an hour on it and got a 100% result, I look smarter because it was a better result, but considering the time spent, was it really? If the extrovert spent another five minutes on it, could he have got the 100% by then? Quite possibly. The extrovert lives in a quicker world, so he needs quick solutions, which may be superior to the longer ones even. It's not exactly unknown, that we may spend hours, if not weeks searching for just that sweet spot of a solution, only to find that the one we had right away was better all along. Usually, the longer put into it, the better result, because more angles are considered, but as we know, there's over-thinking something too, and time spent has to be considered.
This video = 💯!! I just spent a couple weeks out of town with some friends I don't spend long periods of time with normally, and they made comments about me being argumentative. It was very frustrating, and draining to have to resist engaging in what feels like normal conversation to me. The majority of people seem to want to make statements with no further exploration. Any questions or further clarifying a problem statement leads to "conflict".
Some people like to bring this up that we "don't have to explain ourselves to others", which may be one of the many reasons why some people like to make statements without having to explore things more. I understand where they're coming from because it can be exhausting to have to explain yourself many times (probably why it feels like "conflict" to them), but to us INTJs it causes conversations with these kinds of people to stagnant in something that's shallow. While some INTJs have matured enough to learn how to do small talk, but if all of our conversations get stuck on all these surface level stuff... yeeeah, you're just asking us to wanna say 'bye-bye'.
@@BuizelCream While it was a struggle, and still not my favorite, I have learned the value of small talk over the course of life. It has its places in building connections and exploring for common interests. My problem becomes when someone wants to make statements about big topics like workers rights, with seemingly no rebuttal or clarifying questions allowed. It feels a bit like a form of assault to then act like we can't explore the topic deeper. Almost, as if no other opinions are allowed or you are labeled argumentative. You are right that it makes one want to say "bye-bye" really quick. I get what you are saying about it feeling draining to have to explain yourself over and over, though. I wonder if nuance is the key? Maybe other types aren't naturally as skilled or interested in looking at the nuances of a topic, and how they may have far reaching consequences. I suppose that is Ni talking.
@@chriscivarra471 It's our Ni talking for sure. Other types with lower Ni in their stack tend to use Ni leaning on the negative light more often, or if not it's with limited stamina, thus requiring more effort to keep their Ni going. It can be a source of stress for them. And Ni is singular-focused. Others prefer Ne. This kind of explains itself why some people just can't handle exploring all the nuances and the deep conversations we naturally crave for, unfortunately. What I tend to notice with my group of friends is that whenever I try to incite interesting conversations that requires critical thought, they can't help but give me a blank face, or them wanting to move on to a different topic right away, or just praise me for my critical thinking (which often irks me because they make it about me instead of the topic at hand xD). It still boggles my mind why they don't have this instinctive tendency to bounce back asking intriguing questions. But then again, as brought up above, doing just that will be mentally taxing to a lot of them.
I understand completely how you feel. I usually limit my trips with people to 3 days max unless I know that I can vibe with them for longer. So far the only people that I know I can vibe with for a while are my INTP and ISTP friends. Ti is refreshing to be around because they seek deep understanding as well.
@@chriscivarra471 I've got what may provide a shock to you (it did me). In certain situations, perhaps even the majority, you don't have to put up with small talk, and don't fool yourself. It's NOT making a connection, at least for INTJ's, it nothing but nonsense, going nowhere, achieving nothing, but for extroverts, it's what you said. Now for the good part. I'll try to condense this, but I concluded an experiment recently which lasted some 3-4 years. I found out a number of things. The main thing I won't discuss here, which was the whole point of the experiment (which succeeded enormously - 100% in fact). But one side thing I found out, was the value of taking the initiative, and guess what? Initiative destroys small talk. Let's take you a bit into my experiment shall we? Let's say you're a woman (I did this only to women) minding your own business in the canned vegetables aisle at the grocery store, and suddenly somebody, with one finger, touched your shoulder, and as you turn start turning around, they say "Excuse me" to you. Then they wait a couple of seconds for you to gather your wits, then they ask you a question. You answer, or make a comment, and that's the end of this discussion. Considering I took the initiative, where was the small talk in all of that? And yet, in the entire experiment, not one time did I ever get small talk (approximately 100 samples). Why is this presumably? Because I took the initiative, I think that's clear, but also for a more specific reason, because I DID NOT start off with small talk, nor did I ever. It's because of what you noted, that this is a warming up process, at least for some people, but also whether you like small talk or not, you're used to adapting to the greeting you get, which is precisely where the vast majority of small talk is, in the greeting. Thusly, if somebody starts off small talk greeting with me, I will physically cringe (no kidding) but clearly show my reluctance to do so, but adapt I still do. If I come to you with a fact-based greeting, you dispense with the small talk and talk facts with me, with me being in control of probably at least the first fifteen seconds, where all the small talk would go. See? Initiator does the greeting and controls the talk for a bit. Now presumably, at least 80% were extroverted women, since the population is 80% extrovert, so surely if any of them wanted to pop off with small talk, I would have seen it, right? I mean extroverts have no problem opening their mouths. And yet I never went small talk and each and every one of them clearly enjoyed my little interruption. I never said anything in a romantic way, nor asked for phone numbers or anything of the sort. Just basically slightly with some enthusiasm and pretty much just normal me. I expected maybe a 70% success rate, but got 100% instead, but the point wasn't to establish how to destroy small talk, that was just a side realization. IOW, if you beat somebody to the greeting, speaking first with some facts, it would appear you're all set. Only problem is we inevitably can't have it our way all the time, and we're liable to get caught off guard at times. I know I'll be working on beating people to the punch from now on, but it's important to have something on your mind in the first place to greet them with. I don't really consider "Excuse me" a greeting, at least not in all situations, but maybe "Hello, did you see the M3GAN movie (lousy thing to ask perhaps, but just an example)"?
6:12 that's what I learnt after many failed friendships. People don't change because we give them advice. They change because they want to. To save my energy I stop that automatic function, stop giving people advice or spending my brain cells for their problems.
I hate drama and conflict. It’s a waste of time. I’m a very direct communicator which apparently is off putting to some people. As I matured I now accept that everyone is different and communicate differently. I can even adjust my communication style to match the person because people don’t change unless they want to. I love knowledge and research. If I meet someone who has knowledge that I want. I will aggressively ask everything. It’s one of my favorite things to do except for maybe discussing something I’m passionate about with someone who is interested. However if someone is being a bully, unkind, unethical, or dangerous, I have no problem destroying you. If you’re just being stupid, you aren’t worth my time.
As an ENTJ, you're not argumentative, or blunt. You're refreshingly honest, thoughtful enough to speak the truth especially when it concerns the well being of others, and welcome information that can help reshape or complete the puzzle you've carefully crafted - hence your confidence. 🫶 So much fun to have someone who gets that it isn't an argument to discuss something from all angles. COMPLETE opposite of ISTJ who IS argumentative for the sake of No, because only they can decide what is true. They do eventually come back and value your input, but it took them months to admit someone else could also have brain. 😅
ENTJs are one the easiest types to get along with. I swear we're in eachother's minds most of the time. I actually really appreciate ISTJs so I hope you give them another chance. It was probably an unhealthy ISTJ that you met ✊
ISTJs can be such great allies in executing INTJ’s visions. Yeah sure sometimes they express frustrations, but if the relationship works, they can be great friends and often think alike.
11:29 can confirm, one time I microwaved a burrito that I thought was wrapped in plain paper, this was years ago and the microwave still smells of smoke lol.
😂 So real and authentic, that is why I love your vidoes more than those, who it is obvious to me that they are guessing how or what the INTJ is really thinking.....Just this week I spent 5 hours with an INTP girlfriend, and we respectfully parted ways when our long conversation came to a joyoys butting of heads at the end 😂. Any way, keep doing what you are doing...and keep it real as you have been doing! When will you do INTJs Love ESTP (and ESFJs). I am wanting for those two please, and thank you. 😊.
Yes, arguments are just about sharing each other's perspective and knowledge. On the internet it's also about sharing it to any other readers. Then stop before it gets repetitive.
Battle of wits.. That is a very interesting stuff, good way to learn something new, but it could be tiring as hell.. But then again, idk why i love to measure others based on their knowledge or putting them under psychological tension until they show their capabilities
It's not that I personally hate or like conflicts. If I do get into conflict is to protect my morals and ideals or someone I truly love and care (or by accident because the other person perception of conflict) Or I just want to light the "fire of chaos" and see it unfolding for fun, not even getting involved anymore after the beginning spark lol
I think why others see me as confrontational at work is because I ask the tough questions when everyone else is just doing what the boss says. Also, I LOVE intellectual sparring/playing devil's advocate and I try it on people even though they are not the type to enjoy it, so perhaps that also seems confrontational? Lastly, I sometimes I speak up (which others may see as confrontational) on purpose IF my Fi values are on the line (being moral and doing the right thing).
You just cant let stupidity go uncontested. Other stupid people take it for fact and those stupid ideas spread. On the topic of mbti creators, Dear Kristen does great intj bits.
I liked how someone explained it-she (an INTJ) couldn’t stand to see people thinking/saying things that she believed would then lead to immoral actions being committed. I hate seeing people getting emotionally caught up in falsehoods and then causing chaos and sometimes society-wide damage because of it.
I used to try to correct people if they were saying something factually wrong, or harmful. But I usually just got hate and snark for my efforts, so if I get the impression that I'm speaking to a brick wall, I usually just give up and concede, and then move onto something more rewarding.
@@adamd9166hat's also my position most of the time... I don't correct for the sake of that person saying it... But facts are facts.. I tried to give sound advices too and if my advice is for some reason not heard and the person chose an approach that would go against my conscience without a good logical reason, then I will just give it up and let him dwell on his stupidity..
I was at a wedding for one of my brother’s clients. I eventually joined a quieter bunch on the porch. One of the brides maids, a stewardess, tried to introduce us to a game. She went away.
I will say, sometimes I do enjoy a good conflict. It allows me to grab some popcorn and just lean back and enjoy the show, at least until I have to end it. Since, conflict resolution is part of my job description, I will take my jollies where I can, if I don't the job will be the death of me. A battle of wits, or some intellectual sparing is refreshing for sure.
I think INFJ and INTJ have many things in common. I am constantly being told by, usually men, lol, to calm down. I look at them as if they lost their mind bc I'm fine and perfectly calm. Maybe people are mirroring in their mind. I just was texting with another INTJ friend.. I told him I was fascinated by his mind. Jon, I am fascinated by your mind as well. I learn so much from INTJ.
I think the most difference comes in why the INTJ gets into an argument or conflict in compare with for example ENTJ's or E types in general is to further our own understanding trying to make the world a better place. Other types are more likely to just ''want to set people straight'' or just get a kick out of it. And I thoroughly hate it when people do that. INTJ's do not cause conflict for the sake of causing conflict, we know that it is often the best way to progress. If the situation needs a bit of conflict to resolve, INTJ's will not often hesitate to cause as much as is needed. Controversial opinion I guess but sometimes I do like a bit of conflict, it's also kind of exhilarating.
The right kind of conflict is fun but not when people's feelings are being hurt. And I agree that even though the Extroverts do it more than we do, we get the same label and it's odd why 🙃
It's write, I avoid conflicts at all costs. Because we want understand and solve problems that's all. "Socrated method" ! Ahah so true. Ni function like the 3 sieves of Socrates. I like your INTJ ISTP example it's fun ! Ohh I understand now why in the past people think we always arguing my ex boyfriend ENTJ and me INTJ. Te/Te We not argued, we just talked. Me younger wanting to explain ... parents stop me and say I am arguing. As a result I didn't want to talk anymore or express myself.
This is why I tend to just auto-pilot my way through work and be as quiet and unassuming as humanly possible because I'm aware that if I do speak, I'm going to end up pointing out how people are doing things wrong or asking the wrong kinds of questions that could get me in trouble for no real benefit to myself or anyone else. I'm used to everything being a minefield where one slightly wrong move and consequences will never be the same. So I just end up going through the motions, not really bothering, avoiding trouble where I can (considering I have a manager who I suspect has a personality disorder since she actually has pulled me up for minor things I've said which are obviously true like even I said I was quiet she pounced on me and started telling me how she never would have hired me if I'd said that during an interview; it makes such things an absolute chore. Even when I try to avoid trouble, I still end up neck deep in it... -.-) What's funny is when I'm alone with a colleague I've vetted, they tend to be quite shocked by how outspoken and accurate I can be in pointing out problems (as well as how funny I can be since my sense of humour tends to spark conflict so at work, I tend to keep it to myself). I don't actually go Fe or anything or pretend to be something I'm not (because then I'd really exhaust myself...), I just go very quiet. It's the same physically because I know if I were to defend myself when people are being annoying without actually hurting me (violating my boundaries basically), that I'd be seen as the aggressor and the follow-up would be authority figures punishing me instead of the person violating my boundaries, or if I push them away, chances are they and their friends will all descend upon me and I'm never going to win that fight (they always operate in packs), plus they want me to react to give them a blank cheque to do whatever they want. Sometimes the only winning move is not to play, which seems to be the case most of the time. It's all so tiresome... -.-
Trust me dude, I feel your pain. That's why remote work has been a blessing for me, so that I have alone time to recharge for the next time I have to play the Fe game. It's inevitable for an INTJ to get into conflict, most of the time it's not by choice so I agree, pick your battles and just let things slide. You don't have to be liked, you just have to make money so you can spend it on things that makes you happy ✊
@@justcallmejon22 Yeah, I don't do it to be liked, I do it to avoid some unreasonable authority figure deciding to fire me for silly reasons. It's going to be counter-productive to my overarching plans if that happens. I end up not really asserting boundaries much at work because A. I know how strict I can be with them when I do assert them and B. No-one ever really explained to me where in my job role my boundaries even are, like what tasks I can and can't refuse... so I just end up doing everything. Told someone from work all the weird tasks I wound up performing yesterday (including treating injuries and checking machines for issues I wouldn't know how to find...) and they were like "Wait, that's not your job though. You should have told them you were busy." Like, what if they fired me or had my pay docked or something for refusing?
I despised school and did not do well. I was constantly bored. Every report card said I was not working to my potential. So I grew up thinking I wasn’t very smart. Turns out I am but I still struggle to accept it. This being good at school part is one of the main reasons why I question if I am an INTJ.
1. Yes! 2. Yes! 3. Yes! As an INTJ woman, I am seen as extremely disagreeable and alien like. I just don't have time for stupid. And as you get older you learn there are people who cannot learn. Rude, stupid, and ignorant responses roll off my back like water off a duck. People don't like me and I don't like them. I can't speak for all women, but over the years I have developed a loathing of people. They are boring and petty. Watching paint dry is more interesting than speaking to them. Those you think are interesting- 99% of the time about ten minutes in you discover- no they are not interesting. I'm not a negative person. It just is what it is. Possibly, you could do a video on INTJ women. We truly are like an alien race out here among average women with very little in common with them. Relationships with men are also strained- although I find friendships with men are usually very good. If you already did this video...sorry.... I'm not caught up yet. Thank you.
I've reached out to fellow INTJ woman with lists of questions and I'm waiting for all their responses to synthesize the video. In a true INTJ form, I'm still waiting for a response from most of them😂
Whats wrong with Boggle? I like Scrabble, Boggle, Words in Words, Monopoly, Magic: The Gathering (other Colletible Card Games,) Chess and Minesweeper. Later in life I learned to appreciate table top roleplaying games like D&D and Call of Cthulhu, (I never got into the Console gaming.) I hate Yahtzee and Rummikub with a passion, probably because those were the only games my mother had a chance at winning after I turned 15, so she made me play them constantly.
@@quasarsmom I forgot to put phone app* and the only issue with Boggle is it is a 2 minute timer. Oddly stressful probably in that it's a literal reminder of the time you're spending vs 'leisurely' enjoying all that extra time finding words in scrabble 😈
I think it comes down to abstraction. Another NT type is not emotionally attached to the arguments, it is about facts and facts are provable. So if my argument collapses because I am proven wrong? So what, I have learned something and I have to adjust, I cannot wish it away. The only thing is that this rarely happens because INTJs do their homework. One step further is a discussion with an INFP for example. As long as it doesn't touch the points INFP believes in - without having any proof - you can also have a great discussion. But touch these points or like everyone else who is narrowminded and emotionally attached to his points of view - it escalates very quickly and I don't think any INTJ want to go down that path because you cannot win and any sane person wants to avoid that kind of conflict. I had some experience discussing with a troll and it proved the point: I prompted him to serve new facts or prove my points wrong, but he simply didn't - he evaded and instead attacked me or my acquaintances personally with accusations which are not provable. That is not a discussion, that is throwing dirt. I think the problem is the perception of INTJs - because we defend the positions we have thoroughly researched and we won't accept any BS we are seen as confrontational. My favorite quote is from Terry Goodkind's book: "Wizards First Rule": People will believe any lie. Either if they are hoping it is true, or if they are fearing it is true. Except INTJs of course ...
I feel like INTJs fall into the trap of believing in a lie sometimes too because we tend to only do enough research and not necessarily a deep dive like Ti users. I do agree with what you said about conflict with feeling types, it's a totally different ball game 😅
@@justcallmejon22 Feeling Sensors are the worst. I am a bit autistic and so people where I worked on site complained about me. Not because I did shoddy work, but I was "unfriendly". But really, I couldn't talk to them because - just like you said - they always got my intent wrong. And for the trap: It is not about lies, that is hard to do with an INTJ. But as a Jack-of-all-Trades it can easily happen that I do something wrong because of missing information, I try to get every information I need for the job, but miss some obvious detail every specialist knows.
If there's a shirt that says not conflict avoidant I will buy it but I'll never wear it in public. Like all those INTJ tshirts. That scream over here look at me. Nope not gonna wear it
I hate having to tell people that “I’m not trying to argue. I’m trying to explain/understand.” Right alongside “That’s not what I meant/said!”
(In my Celine Dion voice) Tale as old as timeeeeeeeeee 😂
Lol right? It frustrates me when I work to make my point clear, and then someone else latches onto an aside, or misses my point entirely.
"Well I agree that x point has some merit, I think that y point is a better idea"
"Why are you going with y when you just said you agree with x?!"
"..."
Jhon: INTJs aren't confrontational on purpose
Also him: makes an argumentative video
😂😂
Love this chanel.
😂
My rule for conflict is "what will this solve?"
One of my best friends is an ENTP, our friendship is so sarcastic and competitive that a couple of teachers were worried we were bullying each other. Those conversations are my refreshing “battle of wits” I get almost daily.
Sounds like you had fun in school 😂
I can't count the number of times I've seen a potential conflict coming and done everything to try and pivot around it, only for the very person/people I was trying to accommodate turn around and question my motives as if I had malicious intent. Usually led to conversations where I had to do the receipt keeping of mental gymnastics performed to try and avoid this very talk, because if you're going to question my integrity you better be ready to battle. 😆
Trust me when I say that I understand exactly what you go through 😅
It depends on the scenario you're talking about, but the net has given me more power. I've realized one thing, most people that know me, don't insult me, no matter how much they may not like me; it just doesn't happen. But people on the net, and people that don't know me, have no qualms. Why would I let somebody that doesn't know me let me get riled up? Call me all sorts of bad names, I don't care, it only shows you a fool, because you know nothing about me, other than what I typed. You'll also notice that those resorting to name-calling, etc, usually have nothing, or at least nothing else, once they resort to that mode.
I don't argue with children, especially some clown on the net I'll never meet. Those sort of people put me to sleep. I want a bit of intellectual stimulation talking to you perhaps, and to call me names like a lame twelve-year-old, doesn't serve me one iota, and there's all sort of equally shallow people not worth my time. They simply have no power over me, and often I just laugh at them, go to sleep over them 😴, give them a lesson, or the ol' ignore them (I like variety). Once lesson commences, the few times I lower myself to that level, they're running for the hills. It's certainly made it easier for me not to care a lick about what real life such idiots think of me. If you're going to insult me, at least have something to base it on, because otherwise you're telling me about somebody else, and he's not here.
As an INTJ, I'm happy to explore differences in opinion (which is not conflict), but that's different from Enjoying Conflict...But as you said, if there's a bigger issue and higher stakes, we won't avoid the conflict to get things set straight.
We don't think it's conflict but that's not what the others say 🙃
I have heard that Ni-types enjoy entertaining different-often conflicting- ideas in their mind at once. And sometimes they can seem disjointed in their arguing because they will seamlessly introduce a conflicting idea just to mentally or rhetorically chew on, while still very much believing in their original viewpoint.
People often mistake an INTJ entertaining an idea for them agreeing with it.
I also saw the clip from Melissa where she compares how INTJs and INFJs support their "arguments" (I think we are talking about the same clip) and I commented that INTJs dont argue for the sake of arguing. INTJ would correct if correction is needed. And you dont want the INTJ to argue with you. It would only mean they are frustrated that they had to explain. They are not enjoying the situation and they are disappointed that you dont get it all.
You won me with the Klee intermission number.
A frustrated INTJ is rare to see and I dont envy whomever is in our way. I had to put Klee in one of my videos, I laughed so hard the first time I saw it 😂
yeah! that is it i should say next time, when some-one says im "arguing": "I'm not arguing, I'm just frustrated that you don't get it it." 😁
When I was younger I heard a lot, that I "ate all minds" (translate from Polish), that I was arrogant and I was always denying/questioning everything - most from my family. It took me to point, that i was scared to speak, because i hate conflicts so much (they are draining my energy and often has no point) and i didn't want to be cause of it. I needed a lot of work to rebuild my confidence.
It sucks to hear that you felt that way around with your family and I empathize. I learned after time apart from my loved ones that they don't need to hear everything that's on my mind and I don't need to fully understand them to love them. I hope you found your confidence or working on reclaiming it. I'm rooting for you fellow INTJ ✊
@@justcallmejon22 I just stopped explaining them my point of view and fun fact is that they doesn't even ask "why", they just say, that im weirdo - but im not mad, i get used to this. It was exhausting to discuss with them, and the end was the same anyway, so i just shorten the process XD
To regain that confidence i had to understand that the saying: "everyone has the right to their own opinion, and I have right to not care about it" works both ways, and as you said: sometimes it's better to keep quiet just for peace.
3:46 THAT'S EXACTLY THE DIRECTION I THOUGHT FRANKK WAS GOING TO GO IN. I'm so glad that I actually paused to watch the video.
😂
One conflict that I think INTJs have in arguing or discussing, is assuming that the other person has thought things through and has access to all the same knowledge that we bring to the discussion.
The amount of times that I have made a point and had someone say "well that doesn't make sense! did you think about this other factor?"
Of course I did, but the impact of that other factor is negligible and if it does occur, I have already made a course of action to deal with it. It is like you're playing cards, and you show a card and they challenge the single card that they see and think that they win, despite you still having a handful of cards that you're holding up that they cannot see.
And I am in no way saying that INTJs are always right or anything. Just that people underestimate how much INTJs have thought things through most of the time lol.
I learned to go step-by-step now when I explain my thoughts. Some people claim that I make them feel dumb and I always retort with, "I just want to make sure we're all on the same page". It usually works 😅
As an INTJ; definitely not into competition. 💯
Exactly. Unless we can learn something then sure lets do it 😂
From what I can tell, when people express themselves and we then engage them in an effort to produce clarity, they seem to perceive this as challenging their emotional process which, to them, puts them on the defensive and makes them feel judged.
This reminds me a lot of HS when my friends would label me as judgmental, when truthfully, I hadn't felt like I had enough information to arrive at a judgment yet. But if you don't immediately agree or validate people, they take you as causing conflict.
But I think I was around a lot of unhealthy Feelers back then. Constantly being tone-policed. 🙄
I lucked out in HS and found a solid group of Thinkers who would defend me when the Feelers accused me of causing conflict. Tale as old as time amirite?!
2 reasons why the "conflict-lover" image persists..
One, An onlooker looks at the verbal sparring and thinks oh, no, they are fighting
Two, INTJ doesn't shy away from difficult discussions. I have seen most people act like there is no problem and not talking about the problem will magically resolve it (even when it is clearly not happening). Maybe you can cover this in conflict-resolution techniques.
💯, it's annoying to deal with a person who thinks that a problem will dissapear on it's own. It shows a lack of ownership.
how i deal with it, if i have a problem with some-one: i dissapear. problem gone. easy. 😂
(its what i do, when i have something more interesting to do, then a discussion with some-one who doesent seem smart enough... just energie-management)
The key may very well be, because they sense, correctly, that we get off on it at times. It's a way to stimulate our minds, and especially if we've on a recent downturn using the ol' brain, we're more likely to spring to life in some argument. Also, I think we often have a lot more going in these arguments than we realize, whereas our opponents don't really care as much, so we look like we're argument-addicts.
It goes along with what I've said about how smart I might be. I'm NOT smarter than you (in reality I can't tell this one way or the other, and why should it matter?). Let's say I'm talking to an extrovert. The extrovert is perhaps smarter than me in the short run, because he's always looking for shorter solutions, but I'm smarter in the long run, because I look for longer solutions. Or, to put it another way, they may have a great solution after five minutes thinking on a particular problem, perhaps the very same one I would have if we left the problem to a five-minute thought process. The difference why I might seem smarter, is because I almost never will stop at five minutes.
If their five-minute solution achieved a 95% result, and I spent an hour on it and got a 100% result, I look smarter because it was a better result, but considering the time spent, was it really? If the extrovert spent another five minutes on it, could he have got the 100% by then? Quite possibly. The extrovert lives in a quicker world, so he needs quick solutions, which may be superior to the longer ones even. It's not exactly unknown, that we may spend hours, if not weeks searching for just that sweet spot of a solution, only to find that the one we had right away was better all along. Usually, the longer put into it, the better result, because more angles are considered, but as we know, there's over-thinking something too, and time spent has to be considered.
This video = 💯!!
I just spent a couple weeks out of town with some friends I don't spend long periods of time with normally, and they made comments about me being argumentative. It was very frustrating, and draining to have to resist engaging in what feels like normal conversation to me. The majority of people seem to want to make statements with no further exploration. Any questions or further clarifying a problem statement leads to "conflict".
Some people like to bring this up that we "don't have to explain ourselves to others", which may be one of the many reasons why some people like to make statements without having to explore things more. I understand where they're coming from because it can be exhausting to have to explain yourself many times (probably why it feels like "conflict" to them), but to us INTJs it causes conversations with these kinds of people to stagnant in something that's shallow.
While some INTJs have matured enough to learn how to do small talk, but if all of our conversations get stuck on all these surface level stuff... yeeeah, you're just asking us to wanna say 'bye-bye'.
@@BuizelCream While it was a struggle, and still not my favorite, I have learned the value of small talk over the course of life. It has its places in building connections and exploring for common interests.
My problem becomes when someone wants to make statements about big topics like workers rights, with seemingly no rebuttal or clarifying questions allowed. It feels a bit like a form of assault to then act like we can't explore the topic deeper. Almost, as if no other opinions are allowed or you are labeled argumentative. You are right that it makes one want to say "bye-bye" really quick.
I get what you are saying about it feeling draining to have to explain yourself over and over, though. I wonder if nuance is the key? Maybe other types aren't naturally as skilled or interested in looking at the nuances of a topic, and how they may have far reaching consequences. I suppose that is Ni talking.
@@chriscivarra471 It's our Ni talking for sure. Other types with lower Ni in their stack tend to use Ni leaning on the negative light more often, or if not it's with limited stamina, thus requiring more effort to keep their Ni going. It can be a source of stress for them. And Ni is singular-focused. Others prefer Ne.
This kind of explains itself why some people just can't handle exploring all the nuances and the deep conversations we naturally crave for, unfortunately.
What I tend to notice with my group of friends is that whenever I try to incite interesting conversations that requires critical thought, they can't help but give me a blank face, or them wanting to move on to a different topic right away, or just praise me for my critical thinking (which often irks me because they make it about me instead of the topic at hand xD).
It still boggles my mind why they don't have this instinctive tendency to bounce back asking intriguing questions. But then again, as brought up above, doing just that will be mentally taxing to a lot of them.
I understand completely how you feel. I usually limit my trips with people to 3 days max unless I know that I can vibe with them for longer. So far the only people that I know I can vibe with for a while are my INTP and ISTP friends. Ti is refreshing to be around because they seek deep understanding as well.
@@chriscivarra471 I've got what may provide a shock to you (it did me). In certain situations, perhaps even the majority, you don't have to put up with small talk, and don't fool yourself. It's NOT making a connection, at least for INTJ's, it nothing but nonsense, going nowhere, achieving nothing, but for extroverts, it's what you said.
Now for the good part. I'll try to condense this, but I concluded an experiment recently which lasted some 3-4 years. I found out a number of things. The main thing I won't discuss here, which was the whole point of the experiment (which succeeded enormously - 100% in fact). But one side thing I found out, was the value of taking the initiative, and guess what? Initiative destroys small talk.
Let's take you a bit into my experiment shall we? Let's say you're a woman (I did this only to women) minding your own business in the canned vegetables aisle at the grocery store, and suddenly somebody, with one finger, touched your shoulder, and as you turn start turning around, they say "Excuse me" to you. Then they wait a couple of seconds for you to gather your wits, then they ask you a question. You answer, or make a comment, and that's the end of this discussion. Considering I took the initiative, where was the small talk in all of that? And yet, in the entire experiment, not one time did I ever get small talk (approximately 100 samples). Why is this presumably?
Because I took the initiative, I think that's clear, but also for a more specific reason, because I DID NOT start off with small talk, nor did I ever. It's because of what you noted, that this is a warming up process, at least for some people, but also whether you like small talk or not, you're used to adapting to the greeting you get, which is precisely where the vast majority of small talk is, in the greeting. Thusly, if somebody starts off small talk greeting with me, I will physically cringe (no kidding) but clearly show my reluctance to do so, but adapt I still do. If I come to you with a fact-based greeting, you dispense with the small talk and talk facts with me, with me being in control of probably at least the first fifteen seconds, where all the small talk would go. See? Initiator does the greeting and controls the talk for a bit.
Now presumably, at least 80% were extroverted women, since the population is 80% extrovert, so surely if any of them wanted to pop off with small talk, I would have seen it, right? I mean extroverts have no problem opening their mouths. And yet I never went small talk and each and every one of them clearly enjoyed my little interruption. I never said anything in a romantic way, nor asked for phone numbers or anything of the sort. Just basically slightly with some enthusiasm and pretty much just normal me. I expected maybe a 70% success rate, but got 100% instead, but the point wasn't to establish how to destroy small talk, that was just a side realization. IOW, if you beat somebody to the greeting, speaking first with some facts, it would appear you're all set. Only problem is we inevitably can't have it our way all the time, and we're liable to get caught off guard at times. I know I'll be working on beating people to the punch from now on, but it's important to have something on your mind in the first place to greet them with. I don't really consider "Excuse me" a greeting, at least not in all situations, but maybe "Hello, did you see the M3GAN movie (lousy thing to ask perhaps, but just an example)"?
6:12 that's what I learnt after many failed friendships. People don't change because we give them advice. They change because they want to. To save my energy I stop that automatic function, stop giving people advice or spending my brain cells for their problems.
I believe that life gets easier once we realize it 🙂
I hate drama and conflict. It’s a waste of time. I’m a very direct communicator which apparently is off putting to some people. As I matured I now accept that everyone is different and communicate differently. I can even adjust my communication style to match the person because people don’t change unless they want to. I love knowledge and research. If I meet someone who has knowledge that I want. I will aggressively ask everything. It’s one of my favorite things to do except for maybe discussing something I’m passionate about with someone who is interested. However if someone is being a bully, unkind, unethical, or dangerous, I have no problem destroying you. If you’re just being stupid, you aren’t worth my time.
INTJ. I agree with you that I do not like conflict event though it is a paradoxical affirmation.
lmao the pokemon scenario had me rolling
😂
As an ENTJ, you're not argumentative, or blunt. You're refreshingly honest, thoughtful enough to speak the truth especially when it concerns the well being of others, and welcome information that can help reshape or complete the puzzle you've carefully crafted - hence your confidence. 🫶
So much fun to have someone who gets that it isn't an argument to discuss something from all angles. COMPLETE opposite of ISTJ who IS argumentative for the sake of No, because only they can decide what is true. They do eventually come back and value your input, but it took them months to admit someone else could also have brain. 😅
ENTJs are one the easiest types to get along with. I swear we're in eachother's minds most of the time. I actually really appreciate ISTJs so I hope you give them another chance. It was probably an unhealthy ISTJ that you met ✊
ISTJs can be such great allies in executing INTJ’s visions. Yeah sure sometimes they express frustrations, but if the relationship works, they can be great friends and often think alike.
thank you
i can't seem to think of a more original response at the moment, i'll probably this later
No original response needed, I just appreciate the comment ✊
11:29 can confirm, one time I microwaved a burrito that I thought was wrapped in plain paper, this was years ago and the microwave still smells of smoke lol.
I did it with a thermos in high school 🙃
😂
So real and authentic, that is why I love your vidoes more than those, who it is obvious to me that they are guessing how or what the INTJ is really thinking.....Just this week I spent 5 hours with an INTP girlfriend, and we respectfully parted ways when our long conversation came to a joyoys butting of heads at the end 😂. Any way, keep doing what you are doing...and keep it real as you have been doing!
When will you do INTJs Love ESTP (and ESFJs). I am wanting for those two please, and thank you. 😊.
Both videos will come soon, just not sure when. Those videos are charged by Fi so it's whenever it 'feels' right to make them 🙃
Yes, arguments are just about sharing each other's perspective and knowledge. On the internet it's also about sharing it to any other readers. Then stop before it gets repetitive.
Battle of wits.. That is a very interesting stuff, good way to learn something new, but it could be tiring as hell..
But then again, idk why i love to measure others based on their knowledge or putting them under psychological tension until they show their capabilities
It's not that I personally hate or like conflicts. If I do get into conflict is to protect my morals and ideals or someone I truly love and care (or by accident because the other person perception of conflict)
Or I just want to light the "fire of chaos" and see it unfolding for fun, not even getting involved anymore after the beginning spark lol
Be careful with the spark brotha, i've lost friendships doing that 😕
Battle of the wits is on Point
I think why others see me as confrontational at work is because I ask the tough questions when everyone else is just doing what the boss says. Also, I LOVE intellectual sparring/playing devil's advocate and I try it on people even though they are not the type to enjoy it, so perhaps that also seems confrontational? Lastly, I sometimes I speak up (which others may see as confrontational) on purpose IF my Fi values are on the line (being moral and doing the right thing).
Agreed 💯
You just cant let stupidity go uncontested. Other stupid people take it for fact and those stupid ideas spread.
On the topic of mbti creators, Dear Kristen does great intj bits.
I love her videos!
I liked how someone explained it-she (an INTJ) couldn’t stand to see people thinking/saying things that she believed would then lead to immoral actions being committed. I hate seeing people getting emotionally caught up in falsehoods and then causing chaos and sometimes society-wide damage because of it.
I used to try to correct people if they were saying something factually wrong, or harmful. But I usually just got hate and snark for my efforts, so if I get the impression that I'm speaking to a brick wall, I usually just give up and concede, and then move onto something more rewarding.
@@adamd9166 I don't do it to correct them, I do it for the outside Observer
@@adamd9166hat's also my position most of the time... I don't correct for the sake of that person saying it... But facts are facts..
I tried to give sound advices too and if my advice is for some reason not heard and the person chose an approach that would go against my conscience without a good logical reason, then I will just give it up and let him dwell on his stupidity..
"It's not that I want to be better than you, I just cant help it."
Bars 🎵
2:36 had me rollin! 🤣🤣
I was dying the first time I saw that clip too 😂
The Taylor Swift of the MBTI community hahahaha 😆🤣
😂
Well done my man congrats for 1k subs. Love your stuff 👍
Thanks man, I really appreciate the support 🙏
The dance break earned you the like 😉😂
...ok and now the pokemon... my two best friends are INTP and INTJ... good job 🤗 from ENFP me
Welcome to the channel ENFP. Stay as long as you'd like ✊
I was at a wedding for one of my brother’s clients. I eventually joined a quieter bunch on the porch. One of the brides maids, a stewardess, tried to introduce us to a game. She went away.
She went away because of you?
That's why I almost always want to argue via chat because thru that there's a receipt of what I truly said.
I'm too old and tired to have arguments anymore 😅
I will say, sometimes I do enjoy a good conflict. It allows me to grab some popcorn and just lean back and enjoy the show, at least until I have to end it. Since, conflict resolution is part of my job description, I will take my jollies where I can, if I don't the job will be the death of me. A battle of wits, or some intellectual sparing is refreshing for sure.
Sounds like not having conflict in your life is causing conflict 😂
Heeey, i've been watching your videos! Binge watching them. You represent what we, INTS, really are. Thanks Jon!
Are you Filipino?
I'm not Filipino, I'm just Pinoy passing 😅.
I think INFJ and INTJ have many things in common. I am constantly being told by, usually men, lol, to calm down. I look at them as if they lost their mind bc I'm fine and perfectly calm. Maybe people are mirroring in their mind. I just was texting with another INTJ friend.. I told him I was fascinated by his mind. Jon, I am fascinated by your mind as well. I learn so much from INTJ.
Thank you! A person should never lose interest in learning especially when it comes down to humanity and how we operate 😁
I've had this dispute numerous times with so many people who are wrong.
Wrong that we don't enjoy conflict on wrong in their reasoning?
@@justcallmejon22 they're wrong and they don't have the evidence to back it up.
I think the most difference comes in why the INTJ gets into an argument or conflict in compare with for example ENTJ's or E types in general is to further our own understanding trying to make the world a better place. Other types are more likely to just ''want to set people straight'' or just get a kick out of it. And I thoroughly hate it when people do that.
INTJ's do not cause conflict for the sake of causing conflict, we know that it is often the best way to progress. If the situation needs a bit of conflict to resolve, INTJ's will not often hesitate to cause as much as is needed.
Controversial opinion I guess but sometimes I do like a bit of conflict, it's also kind of exhilarating.
The right kind of conflict is fun but not when people's feelings are being hurt. And I agree that even though the Extroverts do it more than we do, we get the same label and it's odd why 🙃
It's write, I avoid conflicts at all costs. Because we want understand and solve problems that's all.
"Socrated method" ! Ahah so true. Ni function like the 3 sieves of Socrates.
I like your INTJ ISTP example it's fun !
Ohh I understand now why in the past people think we always arguing my ex boyfriend ENTJ and me INTJ. Te/Te We not argued, we just talked.
Me younger wanting to explain ... parents stop me and say I am arguing. As a result I didn't want to talk anymore or express myself.
Can confirm, people always think my ENTJ friend and I are arguing when we're just having a pleasant conversation 😂
same with my intp-ex: people think we are arguing, but for us its just an interesting conversation. especially for feelers this is hard to watch. 😁
This is why I tend to just auto-pilot my way through work and be as quiet and unassuming as humanly possible because I'm aware that if I do speak, I'm going to end up pointing out how people are doing things wrong or asking the wrong kinds of questions that could get me in trouble for no real benefit to myself or anyone else. I'm used to everything being a minefield where one slightly wrong move and consequences will never be the same. So I just end up going through the motions, not really bothering, avoiding trouble where I can (considering I have a manager who I suspect has a personality disorder since she actually has pulled me up for minor things I've said which are obviously true like even I said I was quiet she pounced on me and started telling me how she never would have hired me if I'd said that during an interview; it makes such things an absolute chore. Even when I try to avoid trouble, I still end up neck deep in it... -.-) What's funny is when I'm alone with a colleague I've vetted, they tend to be quite shocked by how outspoken and accurate I can be in pointing out problems (as well as how funny I can be since my sense of humour tends to spark conflict so at work, I tend to keep it to myself). I don't actually go Fe or anything or pretend to be something I'm not (because then I'd really exhaust myself...), I just go very quiet. It's the same physically because I know if I were to defend myself when people are being annoying without actually hurting me (violating my boundaries basically), that I'd be seen as the aggressor and the follow-up would be authority figures punishing me instead of the person violating my boundaries, or if I push them away, chances are they and their friends will all descend upon me and I'm never going to win that fight (they always operate in packs), plus they want me to react to give them a blank cheque to do whatever they want. Sometimes the only winning move is not to play, which seems to be the case most of the time.
It's all so tiresome... -.-
Trust me dude, I feel your pain. That's why remote work has been a blessing for me, so that I have alone time to recharge for the next time I have to play the Fe game. It's inevitable for an INTJ to get into conflict, most of the time it's not by choice so I agree, pick your battles and just let things slide. You don't have to be liked, you just have to make money so you can spend it on things that makes you happy ✊
@@justcallmejon22 Yeah, I don't do it to be liked, I do it to avoid some unreasonable authority figure deciding to fire me for silly reasons. It's going to be counter-productive to my overarching plans if that happens. I end up not really asserting boundaries much at work because A. I know how strict I can be with them when I do assert them and B. No-one ever really explained to me where in my job role my boundaries even are, like what tasks I can and can't refuse... so I just end up doing everything. Told someone from work all the weird tasks I wound up performing yesterday (including treating injuries and checking machines for issues I wouldn't know how to find...) and they were like "Wait, that's not your job though. You should have told them you were busy." Like, what if they fired me or had my pay docked or something for refusing?
Btw, I am interested in learning about that battle of wits. What kind of arguments are they?
Anything we can come up with 😂
@@justcallmejon22 i ment in reference to that video game clip 🤔
Whenever the video was trimmed I tried to guess the next colour on the 'JustCallMeJon' and now I need to watch again for what was actually said.
I always thought it would be too distracting 😂. Love your name btw! That's how I feel every day 🙃
Big Facts
🙏
This is one of those reactions that make me want to hit like multiple times
😂
"And you can't blame a young INTJ who feels superior, because... you throw us in school with everyone else."
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
I didn't realize how pretentious that sounds until I read it off this comment 😂
I despised school and did not do well. I was constantly bored. Every report card said I was not working to my potential. So I grew up thinking I wasn’t very smart. Turns out I am but I still struggle to accept it. This being good at school part is one of the main reasons why I question if I am an INTJ.
1. Yes!
2. Yes!
3. Yes!
As an INTJ woman, I am seen as extremely disagreeable and alien like. I just don't have time for stupid. And as you get older you learn there are people who cannot learn. Rude, stupid, and ignorant responses roll off my back like water off a duck. People don't like me and I don't like them.
I can't speak for all women, but over the years I have developed a loathing of people. They are boring and petty. Watching paint dry is more interesting than speaking to them. Those you think are interesting- 99% of the time about ten minutes in you discover- no they are not interesting.
I'm not a negative person. It just is what it is.
Possibly, you could do a video on INTJ women. We truly are like an alien race out here among average women with very little in common with them. Relationships with men are also strained- although I find friendships with men are usually very good. If you already did this video...sorry.... I'm not caught up yet. Thank you.
I've reached out to fellow INTJ woman with lists of questions and I'm waiting for all their responses to synthesize the video. In a true INTJ form, I'm still waiting for a response from most of them😂
Topic: INTJ favorite games.
Catan, words with friends, yahtzee, rummikub, jaipur.
Not Boggle, lol.
Whats wrong with Boggle? I like Scrabble, Boggle, Words in Words, Monopoly, Magic: The Gathering (other Colletible Card Games,) Chess and Minesweeper. Later in life I learned to appreciate table top roleplaying games like D&D and Call of Cthulhu, (I never got into the Console gaming.) I hate Yahtzee and Rummikub with a passion, probably because those were the only games my mother had a chance at winning after I turned 15, so she made me play them constantly.
@@quasarsmom I forgot to put phone app* and the only issue with Boggle is it is a 2 minute timer. Oddly stressful probably in that it's a literal reminder of the time you're spending vs 'leisurely' enjoying all that extra time finding words in scrabble 😈
I think it comes down to abstraction. Another NT type is not emotionally attached to the arguments, it is about facts and facts are provable. So if my argument collapses because I am proven wrong? So what, I have learned something and I have to adjust, I cannot wish it away. The only thing is that this rarely happens because INTJs do their homework. One step further is a discussion with an INFP for example. As long as it doesn't touch the points INFP believes in - without having any proof - you can also have a great discussion. But touch these points or like everyone else who is narrowminded and emotionally attached to his points of view - it escalates very quickly and I don't think any INTJ want to go down that path because you cannot win and any sane person wants to avoid that kind of conflict.
I had some experience discussing with a troll and it proved the point: I prompted him to serve new facts or prove my points wrong, but he simply didn't - he evaded and instead attacked me or my acquaintances personally with accusations which are not provable. That is not a discussion, that is throwing dirt.
I think the problem is the perception of INTJs - because we defend the positions we have thoroughly researched and we won't accept any BS we are seen as confrontational. My favorite quote is from Terry Goodkind's book: "Wizards First Rule": People will believe any lie. Either if they are hoping it is true, or if they are fearing it is true. Except INTJs of course ...
I feel like INTJs fall into the trap of believing in a lie sometimes too because we tend to only do enough research and not necessarily a deep dive like Ti users. I do agree with what you said about conflict with feeling types, it's a totally different ball game 😅
@@justcallmejon22 Feeling Sensors are the worst. I am a bit autistic and so people where I worked on site complained about me. Not because I did shoddy work, but I was "unfriendly". But really, I couldn't talk to them because - just like you said - they always got my intent wrong.
And for the trap: It is not about lies, that is hard to do with an INTJ. But as a Jack-of-all-Trades it can easily happen that I do something wrong because of missing information, I try to get every information I need for the job, but miss some obvious detail every specialist knows.
My INTP brother and I 100%!
You guys must have some fun conversations 😂
I do though.
I support your decision fellow INTJ 😅
If there's a shirt that says not conflict avoidant I will buy it but I'll never wear it in public. Like all those INTJ tshirts. That scream over here look at me. Nope not gonna wear it
Intj here
How to make good teamates with estj . Difficulty lvl 99 😂
ESTJ are fantastic in small doses 😅
@@justcallmejon22 yeah please create content . Cause estj/intj arrogance met eachother 😂
Intj looking for intp to battle with 😆
😂
intj doesn't enjoy conflict
intj at their lowest may initiate conflict
lowest point uses shadow function
intj shadow function is entp
entp = conflict
I definitely see that but I still stand by my stance that we don't actively look for it. BUT! if it's in our face, game on 😂