Very interesting topic. Carl Jung has contributed tremendously towards the healing/wholeness of so many. His work which bridged psychology with esoteric concepts was quite monumental.
Lisa, you and I have spoken about this in context of a sense of calling and my concerns about an inflationary force. When I first met my Daimon in the early 90’s while I was chasing creativity and the creative impulse it triggered an inflationary event. That subsided when I chose to be a parent and set aside the overt call of my guide to follow the dharma, duty of parenthood always feeling as our friend did, that I would have a public life at some point - also knowing that I had a sacred but more subtle duty to my children to bring them into the world. I wrote Chasing Quicksilver about the nature of this phenomenon and I see it as much larger than what you have been exploring in this episode. It is true that the Greeks called it our Genius, and the Persians called our Jinn, or our Genie and it possesses and is connected to the great archetype of The Trickster and the Spirit of the Crossroads. It also has a connection to the great concept of The Logos. The Daimon being the personal experience of The Logos Itself. This connects us to something much greater than a personal sSpirit. It connects us to the archetype of “The Messenger of the Gods” the psychopomp, the bringer of language, writing, science and symbol itself. We ALSO now have neuroscience and psychological research that maps brain function residing in the brain stem, a function of the reticular formation system, that scans our environment for salience and meaning congruent with our natures, pointing these salient events and opportunities out to us. Yes, yes, yes, Reaching point in the exploration about THE WORD. This is The Logos. Discernment is a question explored in the 2nd century alchemical text The Aesclepius in the conversation between Poimanderes and Hermes, Oh Mind of Mine, how do we discern the inner voices? Love this topic. Embarked some months ago again to follow my guide, my friend, my companion towards my purpose - after He sat me down and gave me the book in 2019, now sets me towards that public role I’ve known about for most of my life.
Fantastic episode. This is a powerful subject to bring forth when talking about envy. A daemonic envy between destinies. All of these arcane gods / goddesses competing for specialness.
I'm really glad Debbie stuck to her guns in this episode around understanding that Deimos is a part of everybody's life, and everyone must have their own journey with their Deimos. I don't feel that the Einstein Deimos does have a more significant role to play than any "ordinary person" or Judy Garland, they just had a more visible role. We don't know what terrible evil is prevented by someone following their Deimos to simply be the best mother or father they can be, even tho in that very process they may well sacrifice the fame and noterity of a different pathway that presented itself to them to pursue.
Being a great mother/father and giving an appropriate value to new life is something to be cherished & admired when it happens, and the sacrifice worthy of tears and solace, but the experience of a 'daimon' seems to be a specific one that takes the person outside the group into unknown territory (ie, St Paul on the road to Damascus). If it were part of everyone's life, wouldn't everyone be aware of it? Would we need Jesus to explain to Nicodemus how you must be born again in spirit if he already knew? Perhaps it would be better to say the potential of the experience is available to everyone. The pattern/idea though of flattening prevents discernment of experiences that seemingly not everyone has. Would the Matrix be a fascinating movie if everyone was already awake? As mentioned, it seems anyone can potentially have the experience of being the One(Neo) that becomes aware of something other than ego consciousness (often accompanied with feelings of death/suicide etc...as ego previously thought it was the whole..ie. Eckhart Tolle's experience at the start of the power of now), but how many do have it and how many are interested in suffering through it. PS. your example could be correct specifically....in an age of rubbish child rearing say, a daimon could lead a parent to renew what it means to be a great parent and that could be as significant as Einstein's revelations (being revelatory in itself), but again that is then an experience outside the normal and doesn't equate to saying all parents, because they are parents had the same experience that this one parent did) I guess there is a primal tension between two sides of the infinite one: the great mother saying all life suffers, i care for all equally, get off your high horse etc and the great father wanting companions for dangerous adventures into the unknown, saying give up everything you thought you knew and come with me.
@@mutedplum465 all of the forces which Jung spoke of apply to all people universally, there is no person who has any special or secret relationship to the elements of the unconscious, which are closed to "normal" people.
@@Dischordian I agree with the first part, the forces are universal..Jung says so here: "But whoever is capable of such insight, no matter how isolated he is, should be aware of the law of synchronicity. As the old Chinese saying goes: "The right man sitting in his house and thinking the right thought will be heard a 1000 miles away." Neither propaganda nor exhibitionist confessions are needed. If the archetype, which is universal, i.e., identical with itself always and anywhere, is properly dealt with in one place only, it is influenced as a whole, i.e., simultaneously and everywhere. Thus an old alchemist gave the following consolation to one of his disciples: "No matter how isolated you are and how lonely you feel, if you do your work truly and conscientiously, unknown friends will come and seek you."" But disagree with the second, as why would we need words like 'enlightenment' or 'revelation' if everyone currently had the same relationship with the unconscious? The vision Nikola Tesla received from the unconscious regarding instructions on how to build an AC motor(dynamo as he called them back then) would have seemed like giibberish to someone without the understanding of the physics concepts the unconscious was conveying...and also more dangerous if it had been given to a person who might have understood, but had more nefarious intentions. Everyone can reflect and gain wisdom, but is everyone equally wise? Why did J.K.Rowling make a distinction between wizards and muggles when the wizards are working closely with the mythic/magical (analogous to working with the unconscious). Are the muggles open to magic?
In Esotericism it called the Holy Guardian Angel, (I just wrote this and then the show started talking about this ) Jung would call this ….. synchronicity !
Also from Nietzsche .... (Plz forgive paraphrase) "It is all very well to possess one's talent but one must have one's permission to possess it. eh ? My friends?" Perhaps his own complex ,verbalised though I think he had an acute awareness of collective foibles. Loved this one, guys.
This concept also started an ancient Greece, and it was a creative spirit, responsible for artistic endeavors, whatever they may be. So they could not blame themselves it it did not become popular, or if it was magnificent, they could not get an ego about it. It was a displacement, but I thought it started in ancient Greece, but I could definitely be wrong, because this is your subject matter primarily, and mine, secondary as a special interest.
In psychological astrology it's the lot of spirit..... assigned to guide you to your destiny which is different from fate. Searching Al Muten Figuris will lead you down an interesting path of this topic
This is a very interesting installation on the many topics you all have presented in your numerous and interesting podcasts. I had an experience when I was younger that revealed to me what this daemon was to me, but it took me several harrowing instances in life ,and also learning about the truth of what it was to grasp the power of what it actually is (the daemon and what it means). I also had a numinous experience that presented the opposite of what this entity is. They (my daemon in its ambiguity) have opposite characters and the characters create who I am as a whole. I find, ironically, that the best callings I have received to fulfill in life have been those that entail the hard and harrowing characteristics of the daemon and lead to the opposite characteristics of its lighter side. Mine has definitely shown itself to be a unity in duality, and that is what Jung expressed in a few of his works as being a Self image. Living out of this dual image and using it to measure situations and embark on experiences has helped me to protract what I could gain from the situation, and also gives me the measure of whether it means something large in my life or something of convenience or brevity. Last night I was doing some work on looking into ,and doing some personal amplification of, this inner genius’ parts (and possibly it is a historical entity, I find) and wanted to find a podcast that I could listen to in order to help me to feed my enthusiasm in doing so ,and synchronistically, I came to this episode. Thanks for this one again!!
The book of Abremelin the Mage is the work referenced and it is not something someone attempts lightly as it is a year and a half long operation. The transformation usually requires a destructive event in one's life, something that wrenchs one from an old life and throws them into another. Lots of myths in the Old and New testament highlight this process with events like Jacob being thrown into the well by his brothers, Moses killing an Egyptian and having to flee his comfortable life at court, Saul on the road to Damascus, our myths are filled with these motifs but most are too busy worrying about whether these things actually happened and lose complete sight of their profound inner truths.
I love this channel. How can I contact you guys, if I have a dream I’d deeply be honored if you’d analyze for me? I’ve had several ‘mythological’ dreams lately, and am curious what an outside source might interpret. Again, love this channel ❤️
Is it reasonable to assume that Philemon is an example of a daimonic complex? I've read in psychology and alchemy that the daimon could represent the nous of a person, the "reason". So i am curious to know how should we qualify this figure
Very interesting topic. Carl Jung has contributed tremendously towards the healing/wholeness of so many. His work which bridged psychology with esoteric concepts was quite monumental.
Lisa, you and I have spoken about this in context of a sense of calling and my concerns about an inflationary force. When I first met my Daimon in the early 90’s while I was chasing creativity and the creative impulse it triggered an inflationary event. That subsided when I chose to be a parent and set aside the overt call of my guide to follow the dharma, duty of parenthood always feeling as our friend did, that I would have a public life at some point - also knowing that I had a sacred but more subtle duty to my children to bring them into the world.
I wrote Chasing Quicksilver about the nature of this phenomenon and I see it as much larger than what you have been exploring in this episode. It is true that the Greeks called it our Genius, and the Persians called our Jinn, or our Genie and it possesses and is connected to the great archetype of The Trickster and the Spirit of the Crossroads. It also has a connection to the great concept of The Logos. The Daimon being the personal experience of The Logos Itself.
This connects us to something much greater than a personal sSpirit. It connects us to the archetype of “The Messenger of the Gods” the psychopomp, the bringer of language, writing, science and symbol itself.
We ALSO now have neuroscience and psychological research that maps brain function residing in the brain stem, a function of the reticular formation system, that scans our environment for salience and meaning congruent with our natures, pointing these salient events and opportunities out to us.
Yes, yes, yes, Reaching point in the exploration about THE WORD. This is The Logos.
Discernment is a question explored in the 2nd century alchemical text The Aesclepius in the conversation between Poimanderes and Hermes, Oh Mind of Mine, how do we discern the inner voices?
Love this topic. Embarked some months ago again to follow my guide, my friend, my companion towards my purpose - after He sat me down and gave me the book in 2019, now sets me towards that public role I’ve known about for most of my life.
Fantastic episode. This is a powerful subject to bring forth when talking about envy. A daemonic envy between destinies. All of these arcane gods / goddesses competing for specialness.
I'm really glad Debbie stuck to her guns in this episode around understanding that Deimos is a part of everybody's life, and everyone must have their own journey with their Deimos.
I don't feel that the Einstein Deimos does have a more significant role to play than any "ordinary person" or Judy Garland, they just had a more visible role.
We don't know what terrible evil is prevented by someone following their Deimos to simply be the best mother or father they can be, even tho in that very process they may well sacrifice the fame and noterity of a different pathway that presented itself to them to pursue.
Being a great mother/father and giving an appropriate value to new life is something to be cherished & admired when it happens, and the sacrifice worthy of tears and solace, but the experience of a 'daimon' seems to be a specific one that takes the person outside the group into unknown territory (ie, St Paul on the road to Damascus). If it were part of everyone's life, wouldn't everyone be aware of it? Would we need Jesus to explain to Nicodemus how you must be born again in spirit if he already knew? Perhaps it would be better to say the potential of the experience is available to everyone. The pattern/idea though of flattening prevents discernment of experiences that seemingly not everyone has. Would the Matrix be a fascinating movie if everyone was already awake? As mentioned, it seems anyone can potentially have the experience of being the One(Neo) that becomes aware of something other than ego consciousness (often accompanied with feelings of death/suicide etc...as ego previously thought it was the whole..ie. Eckhart Tolle's experience at the start of the power of now), but how many do have it and how many are interested in suffering through it.
PS. your example could be correct specifically....in an age of rubbish child rearing say, a daimon could lead a parent to renew what it means to be a great parent and that could be as significant as Einstein's revelations (being revelatory in itself), but again that is then an experience outside the normal and doesn't equate to saying all parents, because they are parents had the same experience that this one parent did) I guess there is a primal tension between two sides of the infinite one: the great mother saying all life suffers, i care for all equally, get off your high horse etc and the great father wanting companions for dangerous adventures into the unknown, saying give up everything you thought you knew and come with me.
@@mutedplum465 all of the forces which Jung spoke of apply to all people universally, there is no person who has any special or secret relationship to the elements of the unconscious, which are closed to "normal" people.
@@Dischordian I agree with the first part, the forces are universal..Jung says so here: "But whoever is capable of such insight, no matter how isolated he is, should be aware of the law of synchronicity. As the old Chinese saying goes: "The right man sitting in his house and thinking the right thought will be heard a 1000 miles away." Neither propaganda nor exhibitionist confessions are needed. If the archetype, which is universal, i.e., identical with itself always and anywhere, is properly dealt with in one place only, it is influenced as a whole, i.e., simultaneously and everywhere. Thus an old alchemist gave the following consolation to one of his disciples: "No matter how isolated you are and how lonely you feel, if you do your work truly and conscientiously, unknown friends will come and seek you.""
But disagree with the second, as why would we need words like 'enlightenment' or 'revelation' if everyone currently had the same relationship with the unconscious? The vision Nikola Tesla received from the unconscious regarding instructions on how to build an AC motor(dynamo as he called them back then) would have seemed like giibberish to someone without the understanding of the physics concepts the unconscious was conveying...and also more dangerous if it had been given to a person who might have understood, but had more nefarious intentions. Everyone can reflect and gain wisdom, but is everyone equally wise? Why did J.K.Rowling make a distinction between wizards and muggles when the wizards are working closely with the mythic/magical (analogous to working with the unconscious). Are the muggles open to magic?
In Esotericism it called the Holy Guardian Angel, (I just wrote this and then the show started talking about this )
Jung would call this ….. synchronicity !
Also from Nietzsche ....
(Plz forgive paraphrase)
"It is all very well to possess one's talent but one must have one's permission to possess it. eh ? My friends?"
Perhaps his own complex ,verbalised though I think he had an acute awareness of collective foibles.
Loved this one,
guys.
Every topic you chose fascinates me. I am following your steps
This concept also started an ancient Greece, and it was a creative spirit, responsible for artistic endeavors, whatever they may be. So they could not blame themselves it it did not become popular, or if it was magnificent, they could not get an ego about it. It was a displacement, but I thought it started in ancient Greece, but I could definitely be wrong, because this is your subject matter primarily, and mine, secondary as a special interest.
I wish I lived back East where I grew up. 💛🦋💛
In psychological astrology it's the lot of spirit..... assigned to guide you to your destiny which is different from fate. Searching Al Muten Figuris will lead you down an interesting path of this topic
This is a very interesting installation on the many topics you all have presented in your numerous and interesting podcasts.
I had an experience when I was younger that revealed to me what this daemon was to me, but it took me several harrowing instances in life ,and also learning about the truth of what it was to grasp the power of what it actually is (the daemon and what it means).
I also had a numinous experience that presented the opposite of what this entity is. They (my daemon in its ambiguity) have opposite characters and the characters create who I am as a whole. I find, ironically, that the best callings I have received to fulfill in life have been those that entail the hard and harrowing characteristics of the daemon and lead to the opposite characteristics of its lighter side.
Mine has definitely shown itself to be a unity in duality, and that is what Jung expressed in a few of his works as being a Self image. Living out of this dual image and using it to measure situations and embark on experiences has helped me to protract what I could gain from the situation, and also gives me the measure of whether it means something large in my life or something of convenience or brevity.
Last night I was doing some work on looking into ,and doing some personal amplification of, this inner genius’ parts (and possibly it is a historical entity, I find) and wanted to find a podcast that I could listen to in order to help me to feed my enthusiasm in doing so ,and synchronistically, I came to this episode. Thanks for this one again!!
What a fantastic episode-thank you warmly TJL p.s. big congratulations Lisa on your new book!
So what differentiates the daimon from the shadow, or the anima, as manifest through archetype?
Thank you
The book of Abremelin the Mage is the work referenced and it is not something someone attempts lightly as it is a year and a half long operation. The transformation usually requires a destructive event in one's life, something that wrenchs one from an old life and throws them into another. Lots of myths in the Old and New testament highlight this process with events like Jacob being thrown into the well by his brothers, Moses killing an Egyptian and having to flee his comfortable life at court, Saul on the road to Damascus, our myths are filled with these motifs but most are too busy worrying about whether these things actually happened and lose complete sight of their profound inner truths.
Abramelin the Mage my bad 🤭
Love this! I need to re read Rumpelstiltskin!
I love this channel. How can I contact you guys, if I have a dream I’d deeply be honored if you’d analyze for me? I’ve had several ‘mythological’ dreams lately, and am curious what an outside source might interpret. Again, love this channel ❤️
You can contact This Jungian Life team via their Patreon page, or via Dreamschool
❤❤❤❤
👏👏👏👏
Is it reasonable to assume that Philemon is an example of a daimonic complex? I've read in psychology and alchemy that the daimon could represent the nous of a person, the "reason". So i am curious to know how should we qualify this figure
Yes, I believe that could apply.
XD