@@halleylujah247that’s a total lie. You guys absolutely no interest in “working together” beyond trying to further your insane latinic lunacy about the infallible papacy.
@@SuperTommox nope. The Latinic Lunacy of the papacy and you’re insistence on this heretical idea is why you schismed from the Church and continue to be outside the Church.
What's funny is that I was raised an Evangelical Pentacostal but when I submitted myself to God and prayed for Him to lead me to the truth and then read my Bible, it led me straight to the Catholic Church. I'm fully convinced that any Protestant who claims they're just going by the Bible are, in-fact, not going by the Bible. Only people who aren't actually looking for the truth, consciously or subconsciously, can remain Protestant.
@Lone_BrotherinChrist reformed, where God chooses who goes to hell before they're born? Is that the reformed you mean? Reformed where the bread and wine aren't the true body and blood of Christ and the sacramental priesthood is removed? Do they even have bishops?
Recently broke through the heresy of sola scriptura by Gods grace. Attending an Orthodox Church, it’s great to be inline with the one Church of the 1st millennium
Nothing better than people who think they just need to read the bible, but aren't literate enough to know that "solo" and "sola" are just different forms of the same word
That's kind of the point, 'solo scriptura' (sometimes nuda/naked scripture, as it's scripture stripped of councils, creeds, confessions, congregation/church )is an insult from those intellectuals who cling to sola Scriptura
The perfect summary of 'Solo Scriptura': "If you're consistent with Sola Scriptura, then there is no truth, all that exists is will." - Matthew Raphael Johnson Nevertheless, thanks Craig for having Trent. Major appreciation for both of your scholarly imputs on Theology.
Wdym? The truth is the scriptures. 1 Pet 1: 24 _"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:_ 25 *_But the word of the Lord endureth for ever._*_ And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."_ Only the word of the Lord endures for ever. The will of God. Not the will of man.
@@prayunceasingly2029 Just because some people claim Sola Scriptura does not mean their doctrine is biblical. And that doesn't mean Sola Scriptura is false: just because there are an infinite number of wrong answers doesn't mean 2+2 is an unsolvable problem. 2 Tim 2: 15 _"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."_ 2 Tim 3: 16 _All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:_ 17 _That the man of God may be _*_perfect,_*_ thoroughly furnished unto _*_all good works."_* God gave us the scriptures as the mean to determine what is true and what is not. That’s how we know something is true or something is false, by the scriptures. So you can determinate what doctrine is biblical.
@@prayunceasingly2029 The will of man can be united with the will of God as long man obeys what God says. Even as Jesus, when he was in the flesh, submitted himself to the will of the Father: Luke 22: 42 _"Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: _*_nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."_*
I’d love to see one of you guys interact with Martin Chemnitz’s Examination of the Council of Trent Vol. 1 on Sacred Scripture and the Eight Kinds of Tradition.
Great show. I'm an avid watcher of Trent. Love his books. One small nitpick, it is "The Catholic Church" not "The Roman Catholic Church." The Latin (Roman) Rite is the largest segment, but there are 20 something other Rites...of which Trent is part of as he is Byzantine Catholic (which is essentially Greek Orthodox who is cool with the Pope). Anyway, God bless everyone.
All the rites must pay homage to Rome and Rome holds exclusive power to stamp out those rites and force them to become Roman at any time. It is not improper to call Rome what it actually is.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology I found no such record of this for the Lateran council Everything I have ever seen referrs to the Anglican Church inventing the term to both claim they are "Catholic" and at the same time, insult the Catholic Church by applying Rome to her name.
@@acekoala457 What you have said has nothing to do with the name of the Catholic Church. Even worse what you have just done is name the Catholic Church the Roman Church.
@@dave_ecclectic thats just not true orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2024/08/03/minutes-of-rome-769-against-lay-consecrations-iconoclasm/ Pope Nicholas 1 also uses the term a few times
No one could make a FLAWLESS (infallible or perfect) LOGIC out of FLAW (fallible or imperfect) PREMISE... As the old saying goes... "THE MEANS DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE END."... but ... "THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS" ... Amen.
Exactly. That's why Sola Scriptura makes no sense. Scripture cannot be more authoritative than the process that gave us scripture. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
I felt like that moment in the debate was one of the more critical moments where Ortlund's argument lost a TON of credibility. He kind of tried to play it off in a half joking tone but it was an uncomfortable moment. You could see the fact that the existence of WLC played a direct role in Ortlund's evaluation of the seriousness of that particular heresy. You could see it on his face and feel it in his hesitation. I wish Trent had followed up with this question: "If William Lane Craig didn't exist, do you think you would have the same opinion towards those who fall into monothelitism?" I don't think Ortlund could have honestly denied that the existence of WLC colored his answer. It's basically an admission that he isn't basing his opinion on that off of scripture but rather his own personal experience and "feel" of the situation.
So beautiful to see an orthodox brother working with a catholic brother unity will be easier with the advent of better communication through technology
The derisive tone is hardly something to win over Protestants, especially traditional ones with an understanding of what sola scriptura actually entails. More patting each other on the back than a meaty discussion.
Only those Evil and Hypocrite People will claim that the WORD of God (Written Inspired Scriptures) given to Mankind is INCOMPLETE and INSUFFICIENT... As a good old saying, "Before a Person knows something is INCOMPLETE (insufficient)... one must know the COMPLETE (sufficient) first." Facts and Truth of the matter, Logically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
@jvlp2046 As a believer in Sola Scriptura, your comment is well intentioned and holds some truth, but is massively flawed. You used a "good old saying" as a basis for your evidence of God's word being "incomplete", but your "good old saying" is not found in scripture. (Those who oppose Sola Scriptura can use this against you, because they can point out you are using NON-biblical sources to prove scripture. Just as they do with the church or tradition.) Sola Scriptura is that God's word (the Bible) has self-attesting authority. God's word has ultimate authority to that of the church and tradition. Thus God's word is the sole-infallible rule of faith all other authorities must be both corrected and be founded upon. The Bible's "completeness" is a different topic entirely.
@@FabledNarrative I did not claim that the WORD of God is Incomplete/Insufficient.. that was a response to someone (Blogger) who claimed that the Bible is Insufficient/Incomplete... My point is, even if you are not a Christian, there is a way to KNOW the Inspired Scripture is Sufficient/Complete, profitable for doctrines, for Reproof, for Correction and Instruction in Righteousness... (ref. 2 Tim. 3:16)... Amen.
Take Note: ... "Before someone knows the Incomplete, Insufficient, faulty, flaw, fallible, Evil or hate... one must first know the Complete, Sufficient, Faultless, flawless, infallible, Good or love... respectively... Facts and Truth of the Matters, logically with a little common sense reasoning... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
great discussion, some protestents only study their bible with a translation they like or with jehovahs witness' they take there "translation" and take there interpretation. really they should look at the greek, early church fathers, and history.
I never claimed that upon the Written Tradition completed around 110 A.D., the Oral/Spoken Tradition must stop. My point was, as long as the Spoken/Oral Tradition does not compromise (no contradiction) with the Inspired Complete/Sufficient Written Word of God (Inspired Scriptures), that is fine to practice... However, if it is not WRITTEN by context and meaning, then God has already decided that those Oral Traditions must cease/stop the practice... WHY?... Because the Spoke/Oral and Written Traditions must be UNITED AS ONE, just like the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit... For example only... If the Oral/Spoken Tradition practiced "REPETITIVE PRAYERS" while the Written was not Completed yet... but after completion, "IF" the Inspired Complete/Sufficient Written Scripture said "Do not pray the same Repetitive Words of Prayers over and over."... Will you still practice that same Oral/Spoke Tradition?... Therefore, If it is WRITTEN by Context and Meaning/Definition (not by Specific Word/s), then, that is God's WORD and TRUTH... Amen.
You: WHY?... Because the Spoke/Oral and Written Traditions must be UNITED AS ONE, just like the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit... Me: There is no Written Tradition without the oral tradition which established the canon, and thus, the Written Tradition. God did not give a written canon in inspired Scripture. So Scripture alone fails since it cannot start without oral tradition.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology if by that you mean that there is not found in the Apostolic Tradition anything resembling Vatican 1’s claim of “papal infallibility”, I would of course agree 👍🏻 …However we’ve both seen Roman Catholic apologists try to make that very argument.
Truglia needs to get some sort of a setup where he doesnt always sound like he is in a bathroom. Get a halfway decent mic and talk directly into it man...
Craig offers great research and insight, conversation and debate, and we can hear him with the mic he has. If he doesn't want to upgrade like other youtubers it's because he's humble and a minimalist. If it works, it works. Spend money elsewhere!
@dougmasters4561 at the end of the day i am not producing content for someone doesn't appreciate content. If i can just wave a wand and make instantly better video quality and audio quality would i do it? Of course. But, i wouldn't know what laptop to buy, what internet speed i need, what noise cancelation in my room, which room to look like a fancy studio that my kid is less likely to run into, which microphone to buy (i have a yeti, i thought that was good?), etc. someone may say "do your research" but that literally takes time away I don't have to research the primary sources AND to be Frank it does not come natural to me. I consider it vain to be too concerned. I suppose you can watch my documentary films and read my books...you don't have to hear me talk :)
One thing that protestants like to do when you ask them where ss (sola scriptura for short) is in the Bible is to say that ss does not say that everything has to be in the Bible, therefore, it is not a contradiction that ss is not found in the Bible. They will say that the only thing ss says is that the Bible is the only infallible source of authority, and because of that you can use things as traditions if they don't contradict the Bible. First, if ss does not say that everything has to be found in the Bible, it follows that doctrines like Mary's perpetual virginity do not need to be found in the Bible if the protestant wants to be coherent with what he's just said. Second, if I don't have to find everything in the Bible, with which authority should I validate it? Third, who will determine if tradition is really contradicting the Bible, since the one who can be wrong is the very person reading and interpreting the Bible and not the tradition? Fourth, if the Bible is the only infallible authority it means that you have to judge everything using the Scriptures. If you have to judge everything using the Scriptures, it means that you have to open your Bible and find a set of verses that explicitly or implicitly teach something that you can use to judge the tradition, the teaching, the doctrine, etc. (if "you have to use the Bible to judge everything" does not mean it, you definition is empty and meaningless). In other words, you have to find everything in the Bible. Ss is a tradition, show me where I can find a set of verses that can be used to confirm that the Bible is the only infallible authority (by the way, verses that show that the Bible is good, useful, inspired, the word of God, do not prove ss since ss does not say that, but the Bible is the ONLY INFALLIBLE authority). And if ss is not needed to be found in the Bible, with which authority do they validate ss? Who gave authority to it, and why is it valid? Who will determine that it is valid?
1:10:07 - They were Apostles. The whole point of Sola Scriptura is that we stay faithful to the teachings of the Apostles. We dont have the Apostles anymore. So what do we do? We have what they taught in Scripture. Sola Scriptura = Sola Apostolica.
@@shamubilogbilog6456 What is some guy 500 years after the death of John going to know about the teachings of the apostles save for what is left of their teachings in Scripture? Do they whisper additional hidden teachings into their ears at ordination?
This isn't about some hidden knowledge. The Scriptures never present themselves as nor claim to contain the totality of everything the Apostles taught. St Paul said to hold fast to the traditions taught by other word or epistle. Presupposed in there is that there were instructions handed down by word which were not handed down by epistle. Every single epistle in the Bible was to an audience who had already been given Christian instructions of some sort. These instructions continue to be handed down, not secretly but openly, and over time we see records of them as the successors of the Apostles make reference to them. For example, the necessity (not optional) for Christians to celebrate Easter, or Baptism by triple immersion in the name of the Trinity, or prayers for the departed. These aren't occult teachings; they are simply teachings not explicitly mentioned in the epistles, because the Church never operated under a _sola scriptura_ model. In those days, the written word was closer to "hidden teachings" than the oral word because of such limited literacy and how expensive writing was. This is why the canonical Scriptures were read aloud in the liturgies. These presuppositions about oral tradition vs the canonical Scriptures only make sense in a post-printing press world.
Christ Jesus is a Good Shepherd who always knew His own FLOCK for they Hear His VOICE... (ref. John 10:14 / 10:27-28). How do they HEAR the VOICE of Christ Jesus?... (Simple) Through READING the Teachings of Christ Jesus through His Apostles' WRITTEN WORD of God (Inspired Holy Scriptures) COMPLETED around 110 A.D. after the Gospel of John and God's Revelation, so that they could be guided accordingly by the Holy Spirit on how the PROPER WAY to Obey/follow the WILL of Father God/YHWH that is pleasing to/in HIS Eyesight... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
When it comes to Religious/Spiritual Matters, there must be only ONE Church, ONE Inspired Scripture, ONE Way, ONE Life, ONE Truth, ONE Father God, ONE Son/Word/Christ Jesus, ONE Holy Spirit... can not be many sources of TRUTH... Amen. Oral/Spoken and Written Tradition must be UNITED AS ONE without Contradictions, however, if it does, the Written Tradition must overrule/ supersede the practice of the Oral/spoken Tradition... As long as no contradiction, that is fine... If it is not WRITTEN, therefore, it must be a False Teachings/doctrine/dogma... while if it is WRITTEN, therefore it must be the Biblical TRUTH. St. Paul said, "DO NOT GO BEYOND/EXCEED WHAT IS WRITTEN" (ref. 1 Corin. 4:6)... or else, if you do, God's CURSE (anathema/eternal damnation) will fall upon you." (ref. Gal. 1:8)... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
I think Dr Gavin Ortlund, whom I have respect for, is starting to bump up against scripture v tradition in his recent episode defending the Trinity where he’s trying to explain the difference between “accretions” and doctrinal development. It becomes very arbitrary on what’s an accretion and what’s doctrinal development. I’m of the opinion you can’t hold to sola scriptura and accept some councils whilst rejecting others. As Trent put it, it’s very ad hoc.
It becomes incredibly hard to avoid being arbitrary when the Bible does not use the word hypostasis at all nor ousia like we do nowadays. I think a lot of Protestants are now realizing how problematic sola scriptura is from an existential standpoint: how do I know I’m interpreting this right?
Gavin has a clear methodology: whatever he likes from Tradition is simply explicating the clear teaching of the Scriptures, whatever he doesn't like is an accretion.
'Sola Scriptura' does not lead to any particular interpretation of the Bible; rather it is a method of interpreting the Bible that allows a person to claim any interpretation they wish. It is, in others words, eisegesis.
@@tony1685is this evidenced by the unity within the Protestant tradition? The unity which Christ Himself prayed for? The Protestant tradition’s Achilles heel will always be their lack of unity. From the very beginning of their revolution, the spirit of division was at work. If Jesus hadn’t prayed for unity, I’d say it’s not that big a deal. Except He did, because he knew it would lead to the discrediting of the message of the gospel by the unbeliever. The evidence of our failure to be united is all around us in the culture. Our current culture of death. We are in a post Christian society now. Disunity is not our strength. It only serves to damage the gospel. Christ only built one Church. There is no blueprint in the scriptures for one breaking off and forming one’s own. Cling to the traditions, oral or written. That is our encouragement. God Bless and keep you.
@@fredricos9468 what does that have to do with what was said? mary is a human and any human can intercede for anyone else. do you doubt that she's in heaven? she believed in Him usually that is what i hear the standard is.
The Apostles of Christ Jesus including Paul, Stephen, Barnabas, etc., and the Early 7 Churches of God in Christ of the 1st Cent. A.D. never made a SIGN of the Cross with their Right hand... only came from Roman Catholicism in the 4th Century A.D. Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
So how is it that the book of Jasher is not considered as scripture when God himself has told us all to go to it as a testament of the Truth of the account in the authorized cannon? Verbatim, is it not written in the book of Jasher?, twice. Title means The book of the Just Man, AKA The record as it is. I have been asking about this for four years, this time around the maypole, and not one of anyone who has read the comment or the hosts of the videos, yet not one reply. While y'all are at it please answer me about who is the one who rested on the seventh day of the recreation/replenishment done in six days? Afterall Jesus said neither he nor his Father had ever rested.
Or the Annals of the Kings of Judah etc. Canonical recognition separates between what is useful or what God selects as true from a non prophehic source.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology guess you are not willing to answer my question as far as who rested on the seventh day. Hint, and I saw a great battle in heaven and....was cast down.
@@neilhaverly4117 ..... easy, not sure if you're just being facetious or truly asking, since it's quite simple and I frankly don't believe you haven't gotten an answer: 1. You're confusing what "rest" means - Words can have different meanings, depending on their context, especially when what you're reading is a translation of a language long unused, which had it's own specifics and meanings. Example: When Christ says "let he who has ears listen" doesn't mean "hear me out" - It means "listen to what I'm saying and trying to teach you/explain to you, make sure to remember it and apply it carefully and truly to your life according to what you learned from it". This is something you'd never really grasp unless you have a bit of a background of how ancient hebrews communicated with each other. 2. To the topic at hand: Who rested on the 7th day? God did. What does it mean to "rest" in that context? To rule. Over His creation. What does it mean to "enter his rest"? To rule with Him over His creation. The rest Jesus is refering to when neither He nor his Father having "rested" is the rest you have in mind - the "inactive" kind of rest. Back to the initial point, words can have different meanings. The word "god" appears numerous times in the Bible and it's referring to different beings multiple times - How is that not confusing to you but this is?
The Written Original Greek Scripture of Matt. 26:44... "TON AUTON LOGON" which means in English "THE SAME THING" and not "THE SAME WORDS" (Ton Auton Logia)... This English Version (KJV) is WRONG, taken from the Latin Vulgate to favor the Dogma of the ROSARY... refer to the Original Greek Version... Therefore, clearly... "THE SAME THING" (ton auton logon) means the same Prayer Request/Petition but not necessarily THE SAME WORDS (ton auton logia) used over and over again... Christ Jesus knew His Father God/YHWH is not DEAF... If Christ used THE SAME EXACT WORDS 3X in His own Prayer in Gethsemane, He would be contradicting His own Teachings to His Apostles... The Biblical TRUTH shall set you FREE... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen..
Analogy... for example only... during your practice review test/exam, you got used to encircle the correct answer... When the actual test/exam begins, and the WRITTEN instruction was to underline the correct answer... will you still encircle the correct answer which you used to do?... Will that give you any credit from the examiner?... NOPE... all your answers are considered WRONG even though they were right, for just not following the WRITTEN Instructions... the same analogy... If it is WRITTEN by context and meaning/definition (not by specific word/s) then, that is God's WORD, WILL, and TRUTH... Amen.
Yet again Tony I suggest you read the actual Bible to see the first Christian’s in the Bible celebrated on Sunday. Unlike you SDAs we Catholics and Orthodox actually follow the Bible Remember and I’ve shown you this countless times by now in the Gospels Jesus reaffirms all 10 Commandments EXCEPT the Sabbath…
@@irishandscottish1829 Christians worship 24/7 -- but none pretended the Lord's day changed to the 1st day of the week. NONE. ok, prove me wrong -- show me just a few times where the 1st day was sanctified, blessed, made Holy -- here's a few for the 7th day: Gen 2:2-3, Ex 20:8-11, Mk 1:21, Mk 6:2, Luke 4:16, Acts 13:42, Acts 17:2, Acts 18:4, etc, etc, etc, etc *Happy Sabbath!!!* may the Lord's day -- *TODAY* -- be a blessing and church be wonderful for all Christians!
@@kwing6017 if we aren't to use His Word, what do we use for understanding Truth? *Happy Sabbath!!!* headed to church now, Jesus is there! may the Lord's day be a blessing for you and yours!
@@tony1685 They Celebrated the "Prayers of the Breaking of Bread" on the 1st Day of the Week, the day of the Resurrection. And the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
A book CONTAINS the "Word of God." A SCRIPTURE can only ever be a representation of that. Otherwise, the writing itself becomes a focus of idolatry. It is a TOOL.
Could Catholics consider William Lane Craig Christian if he holds to the one will of Christ? Would his baptism be valid? It seems odd to speak of non inspired, not God breathed, Sacred Tradition and Councils. If it is from God it should be inspired. I will keep listening and if someone wants to clarify that would be great.
The first part is an unjustified assumption. Both Orthodox and Catholics would argue tradition and councils are inspired. Is the Trinity and deity of the Son and Holy Spirit not dogma? Both of which were definitely defended and dogmatized at Nicaea I and Constantinople I. If the councils definitely decided those issues (much like Acts 15 lays out), how could God working through them not be inspired? On a personal note, my patron saint is Maximus the Confessor, whose works WLC has probably never read nor has he ever attempted to engage his arguments. I take it personally that Craig defends a heresy that my patron saint not only dedicated his life to combatting, but also has his tongue and hand cut off for fighting. Also, Craig is an Apollinarian atop that, Hershey this all matters. Think of it this way, is it acceptable to be an Arian or Macedonianist? How about an Ebioine or adoptionist? All these positions can be reasoned from Scripture, so why deny them? If you can appeal to non-scriptural condemnations of these positions, the you really don’t have any defense of WLC. Lastly, that which is not assumed is not redeemed (Ironically, this is an anti-Apollinarian argument made by St. Gregory the Theologian). If Christ did not have a human will, He did not redeem us since He lacked something which needed redeeming, especially something that needed it as desperately as our will. I recommend literally anything Maximus wrote on this subject. His stuff is superb.
@@deadalivemaniac You stated, "The first part is an unjustified assumption. Both Orthodox and Catholics would argue tradition and councils are inspired." I thought the CCC stated only Sacred Scripture is inspired. Both Sacred Tradition and the Councils are from God, Agreed! They are both God's Revelation. However, I don't think we can call Sacred Tradition inspired in the same way the Sacred Scripture is.
The Big Problem was that after the WRITTEN TRADITION was finally completed in around 110 A.D... Some Early Christians do not want to stop/cease those Oral/Spoken Traditions that God had decided not to WRITE down, which means, not to continue the practice...
Before St. Paul died in around 67 A.D., he wrote to the Thessalonians (2 Thessa. 2:15) to Hold Firmly on both Spoken/Oral and Written Traditions... why?... because the Written Tradition was just beginning to be written down at that time and had not been completed yet... Around 40 years after St. Paul died of Martyrdom (beheaded) when the Written Tradition was finally completed... God had summarized all Christ Jesus had done on Earth which were so many that were witnessed by some, and God had selected only those with Great IMPORTANCE (relevance) with the Process of Salvation of Mankind, for if all EVENTS be written down, the whole world can not hold them... (ref. John 21:25). After the Written Inspired Scripture was completed in around 110 A.D., we must all verify and check whether the Oral/Spoken Tradition does not contradict the Written Tradition because that is the WILL and WORD of God... "If it is not WRITTEN, then it is not INCLUDED to be practiced anymore... while if is INCLUDED to be still practiced, therefore, it must have been WRITTEN down... logically speaking with a little common sense... Amen. The Oral/Spoken Tradition and Written Tradition must be UNITED as ONE... Just like the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT... Amen.
We only need LOGICAL REASONING, which unfortunately some don't have... That is the reason why God made Mankind above the Animal Kingdom... If the WORD of God (Written Inspired Scripture) is "INSUFFICIENT" (Incomplete), how can it REPROOF, CORRECT, and INSTRUCT in Righteousness that the Man of God may be PERFECT, thoroughly FURNISHED unto all GOOD WORKS???... (ref. 2 Timothy 3:16) "If sinful (Evil) people know how to give their children good things, how much more God our Father in Heaven"... (ref. Matt. 7:11)... With this passage, will God/YHWH give INSUFFICIENT (Incomplete) "WORD of God" (Inspire Scripture) for those who seek God, His TRUTH, and Righteousness???... NOPE, it must be SUFFICIENT/COMPLETE... As a good old saying, "Before a Person knows something is INCOMPLETE (insufficient)... one must know the COMPLETE (sufficient) first." Facts and Truth of the matters, Biblically and Logically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
@@bibleman8010 Fortunately, I am a True Christian who worships God in Spirit and in Truth (without Physical Stone/Wood Idols, Statues, Sculptures, Rosary, Pendants, Scapulars, etc., and by kneeling and kissing the hands of the Priest/Pope)... and I am not a Protestant Reformer (Prodigal Son of R.C.C.) who came out from Roman Catholicism...
Thomas Aquinas once noted that no matter how flawless one's logic was, if it began with a faulty premise, then the end result would be a conclusion founded upon error.
Yikes someone needs to read there Bible because Christ clearly said things that are not found anywhere in the OT thus He was using Jewish tradition also! Here is one example Matthew 23:1-3 when He references the Pharisees sit on the seat of Moses which is a phrase not mentioned anywhere in the OT but is found in the Mishna (the oral teachings)
@@irishandscottish1829 paragraph 1 & 2 -- yikes, someone needs to gather and comprehend CONTENT -- 'tradition' can NEVER be in contradiction to His Word -- Isaiah 8:20, Deut 4:2, 12:32, Rev 22:18 ya have to think a bit, Sir -- as hard as it may be. *Happy Sabbath!!!* i pray the Lord's day (today) is a blessing and church is wonderful for all Christians!
Like all complicated doctrines, the comparisons must be made 1:1. Taking a high, Catholic view and comparing it with a perspective of the uneducated Protestant is fallacious and uncharitable. The educated Protestant knows this about sola scriptura: the church has authority; the Catholic church preserved and defended both the Old Testament (which predated it) and the apostolic writings which became the New; the boundary on church decree is the apostolic authority; according to the apostles, that authority is present in their letters; therefore, scripture provides the doctrinal bounds on church authority; therefore, the sola scriptura position is the same as Catholic magisterial limitations. Dear Lord Christ, your church needs charity and obedience to your call to reconciliation. No Protestant will argue that someone reading the scripture alone under a tree cannot receive insight from the Holy Spirit, and neither would any Catholic. But! No Protestant will argue that this type of reading will give you everything you possibly need to know, only that anyone doing so will find sufficiency for salvation. Why is this controversial?
when you say protestants know the church has authority what do you mean by church? the position i've usually heard is that the church is the invisible body of believers and that's all. that clearly doesn't jibe with all the disagreement between believers how can the church under that understanding have any authority at all? i think it cannot and that is why among other reasons they say scripture is the only thing to go by. it is odd a protestant could say that the catholic church gave us scripture and then deny everything else it taught. i think the usual thing they say is that the early church recognized what was scripture organically and just used them no need for the church at all. the catholic church is bound by its apostolic authority that means she cannot teach error. that authority comes from Christ to the apostles passing it along through their successors the bishops and in union with the bishop of rome. scripture provides bounds yes because it is true but tradition and infallible declarations are also bounds. ultimately the truth on faith and morals is the bound. sola scriptura in practice is bounded not by truth but by human imagination. that is why heretics can twist scripture to teach false doctrine to their own destruction of course. the Holy Spirit speaks to us all through scripture yes but cannot teach 2 different things about one topic. the controversy is that church authority binds us to one understanding when the church defines it and sola scriptura doesn't bind anything and allows for wildly different views on every topic thus creating endless division and confusion at times heretical.
@@kwing6017 I'm a Protestant theologian who doesn't fly any denominational flag, but went to a Baptist school. I'm certainly out of step with them on a lot, but *they* taught the authority and good work of the Catholic church in preserving for us a right and good New Testament. The denial of other things taught by Catholics (not everything they teach) comes from historically recognizing that doctrines have accreted over time, some make apostolic sense, ie, fit with apostolic teaching, and others are more difficult to justify. I don't find this to be a reasonable basis for the radical lack of fellowship we all have. And this is back to my first statement, we can't compare the good of one with the bad of another. The bounds you're talking about work to exactly the same outcomes for each. Badly understood solas lead those who are not of the faith to justify their sin. Badly catechized Catholics do the same. Comparing the liberalizing slide in both will show that the same kinds of relativistic justifications are employed against the authority of scripture for the Protestant and against the traditional magisterial teaching of the church for the Catholic. The heart is always always the issue, not the type of hedge against sin. That's why the truly heretical is showing up increasingly among Catholics as well as Protestants, even while revivals are going on among both. That's called the NT church. And to be truly fair, there are only a handful of matters where we have wildly different views.
@@AndrewKendall71 that is interesting that they trust the catholic church enough to give us the 27 books from many other contemporary works thought as scripture but then say they are wrong on other topics. the catholic church is the pillar and foundation of the truth or it isn't. a heresy creeps in it is dealt with and anathematized. those who hold to sola scriptura as a whole good faith or not believe in wildly different things and that is not ok. poorly catechized catholics eventually get corrected if its bad enough or get lured to protestantism and leave catholicism. in protestantism any liberal can start up a church and deceive the people with scripture the highest authority. no one can do anything about it except feel something is off and leave to find a more traditional church. in catholicism something can be done if clergy are being liberal their superior can remove them from ministry and excommunicate them. if a bishop is doing it then the vatican will eventually hear of it and remove him from ministry and excommunicate him. usually it would be longer than that trying to bring them back into to order. the problem we have in catholicism is those who are obsessed with the extraordinary form of mass that have a problem with authority. in general sola scriptura in practice doesn't safe guard orthodoxy. the church does.
@@kwing6017 "Trusting" the church to do the right work in preserving and providing the NT is no surprise since we know the means they employed. They documented and did the work - proper hermeneutical and exegetical analysis, cross referencing the OT, etc. It's obvious that good work was done. So, no trust without verification is needed. They did it and it's obvious, and educated Protestants feel a fellowship with those theologians, councils, scribes. And the Catholic church - even according to the Catholic church - is not the only church and therefore isn't the only pillar and foundation. The broader, global church that has the true Christ as its center and purpose is indeed the pillar and foundation (perhaps best ecclesiastically organized by Catholics, but not only), and it is such based directly on apostolic teaching and conformity with it and with Christ. And this can be seen in and out of Catholicism to varying degrees. Again, not blind trust. We have the apostles' words and the OT that predates the church. We can know when and how people truly go wrong. You're not wrong about Protestants being able to start up a church and push people into error. That's why Protestants have so strong an emphasis on deeper and deeper study, and they/we do so based on orthodox commentary, with prayer and expectation of grace, gathering a lot from the traditional church understanding in matters that are otherwise unclear (which is few). The degree to which the Protestant in the pew gets things wrong as individuals in a church, however, occurs at the same rate as in Catholicism. And yes, the church has a recourse, but I have very very rarely seen it used. So, parishes continue under bad priests with a similar expectation by the wider church that Protestants go by - an expectation of grace for those truly trying to follow the biblical Christ.
@@AndrewKendall71 the same church that did the work for the new testament gave us a 46 book canon for the old testament and at ecumenical councils defining dogma for all to believe or be anathema. the global church made up of all the faithful include all sorts of contradictory doctrine. baptism saves some say no. eucharist some say is Christ true real body and blood others just a memorial a symbol a remembrance others it's just spiritual. the list goes on. how can one global church not agree on anything? that isn't truth. that isn't being guided by the Holy Spirit into truth. the catholic church affirms "this church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure". meaning the catholic church says she has the fullness of truth but other places also have truth but diminished. yeah bad priests do not often get stopped. i don't know why their bishops don't correct them or if they will not be corrected just remove them from ministry. maybe it has something to do with supply of priests or something else. the parishioners are there primarily to receive Jesus and they like any faithful can tune out bad teaching but at least there is teaching that is defined and we can cling too. unlike in protestantism where there is an array of teaching even within denominations. you only really have your own interpretation of the bible versus the bad pastor's interpretation where either you are right or you are wrong along with your pastor.
Here are many Scriptures in the Bible that speak about lying. As you can see by these many Scriptures written in the Old Testament as well as in the New Testament God means what He says that He is very serious and angry with those who lie because it is an abomination to the Lord that sends many to hell. Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Leviticus 19:11 ‘You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another. Psalms 119:163 I hate and abhor lying, But I love Your law. Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, But those who deal truthfully are His delight. Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness does not lie, But a false witness will utter lies. Proverbs 13:5 A righteous man hates lying, But a wicked man is loathsome and comes to shame. Proverbs 17:7 Excellent speech is not becoming to a fool, Much less lying lips to a prince. Hosea 11:12 “Ephraim has encircled Me with lies, And the house of Israel with deceit; But Judah still walks with God, Even with the Holy One who is faithful. Zephaniah 3:13 The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid.” John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. Acts 5:3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. Colossians 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds. 1 Timothy 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron. James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. Revelation 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY... is not a prayer but an ACCLIMATION to God/YHWH...just like Hail, Hail, Hail Caesar... or Long, long, Long Live the King... etc... Aside from that, Christ Jesus prayed only 3X with the same request (but not the same exact words) to take away the task from Him but not His will but God's will be done in the Garden of Gethsemane not 50X with exact words or phrases or more in one (1) Cycle of Prayer continuously without stop... while Christ Jesus stopped 2X in His prayer request to go to his apostles who were sleeping... Do you see the Difference?... "NOT USE VAIN REPETITIONS" (me' battalog'es'ete in Greek) in prayer... what does it mean in Context and Meaning? ... Let us Analyze, why will a Righteous Person turn or convert the Greetings of Angel Gabriel into Prayer 50X?... "Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with you (and so on)."...(ref. Luke 1:26-38)... What is the valid LOGICAL Reason behind the SAME PHRASES over and over in a single CYCLE of Prayer?... Why 50X not 40X? or 12X?, 7X?, or 3X only?, those are Biblical Numbers... Does the Bible somehow have an explanation for it? When we pray daily, it does not mean we use THE SAME WORDS/PHRASES over and over to God... For Father God/YHWH is no DEAF, logically speaking... R.C.C. was used to pray the NOVENA Prayers, a prayer composed by someone (Author) to be recited as if they are from their own, personally, over and over again with lighted candles even in the morning... Christ said, "God knows already even before you ask God your needs in prayer." (ref. Matt. 6:8)... It is hypocritical to say, where can we find the literal words RAPTURE, TRINITY, or BIBLE in the Scripture?... Obviously, no one can find them because the Original Scriptures were not written in English... You must find the ESSENCE, CONTEXT, and MEANING/DEFINITION... Again, when it is WRITTEN by context and meaning (not specific English word/s), that is God's WORD, WILL, and TRUTH... Amen.
And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again. The vain, repetitious prayer Jesus warned about was the type of prayer described in 1 Kings 18:26-28: Quote: “And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made. And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.” The pagans would call upon the name of their gods over and over until they got the god to respond. If their god responded, it made the shaman or holy man a big shot, capable of calling the gods down from heaven. That's the "vain" part. The "repetitious" part is not the problem. Jesus prayed the same prayer three times in the Garden. The angels in heaven endlessly repeat "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME." Now that's repetitious prayer, but it's pleasing to God. Just like the Rosary. Keep on prayin'! Here is a list of some in each category that you can check in your Bible. (V) 1King 18:25-29, (U) Isa 6:3, (U) Dan 3:52-90, (V) *Mt 6:7, (U) Mt *26:44, (U) *Lk 6:12, (U) Lk 18:1,9-14,*21:36, (U)*Col 1:9, (U) 1Thes 3:10,5:17, (U) *Jam 5:16, (U) **Rev 4:8 I Thessalonians 5:16-18 NKJV Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
@@bibleman8010 FYI, the Written Original Greek Scripture of Matt. 26:44... "TON AUTON LOGON" which means in English "THE SAME THING" and not "THE SAME WORDS" (Ton Auton Logia)... This English Version (KJV) is WRONG, taken from the Latin Vulgate to favor the Dogma of the ROSARY... refer to the Original Greek Version... Therefore, clearly... "THE SAME THING" (ton auton logon) means the same Prayer Request/Petition but not necessarily THE SAME WORDS (ton auton logia) used over and over again... Christ Jesus knew His Father God/YHWH is not DEAF... If Christ used THE SAME EXACT WORDS 3X in His own Prayer in Gethsemane, He would be contradicting His own Teachings to His Apostles... The Biblical TRUTH shall set you FREE... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen...
Sola Scriptura= the Scriptures alone are the inspired-inerrant Word of God. Therefore they are the ultimate authority for the Christian and the Christian church. There is no equal nor greater authority than the Scriptures. Where is the official list of all the traditions of the roman catholic church to be found?
@@Justas399 the Orthodox definition of tradition is all matters we have consensus demonstrably from antiquity. There are a list of canons on these questions , but this is not exclusively the list. Other matters have historical consensus but no canon, similar to how Protestants treat their own biblical canon.
Justas399 Where is the list of books within scripture, to identify this body of work? I didn't add _official_ as if it is *IN* scripture it would be official. Where does scripture say there is no greater or equal authority than Scripture?
The Church debated and CHOSE the list of books which are to be accepted as Scripture in the 5th century. What was the infallible rule before? It was the Church.
So your saying that God's word, "Jesus is not the only way for salvation? Luke 11:27 And it happened as He spoke these words that a cirten women in the crowd raised her voice and said, " Blessed is the womb that bore you and Blessed are the paps which nursed you "! 28 But Jesus said, " More than that, " Blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it"!!!
It is fine to say things about your religion to defend its doctrine to be true whether you are a Catholic or a Protestant or any other religious belief like the Mormons, JW, SDA, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Sikhism, Taoism, Islam, etc... but one thing that could be against you and your religion is that if you say something doctrinal that is a lie you will all end up in hell for eternity for being a liar my friend. As an example, the Roman Catholic church keeps preaching the doctrinal of “Purgatory” to be true with many other doctrinal that are not Biblical, and the Protestants teach to their members that their salvation is guaranteed to be secure in the heresy doctrine of Calvin of Once Saved Always Saved, should you all not make sure before making those claims to look deeper into the Scriptures that they are true where it could make you lose your salvation instead. If there is a possibility to convince you that those doctrines are lies and you deny it to be a lie and keep preaching that lie and as far as your faith is in that religion and say you are a born-again Christian and have been baptized, do you know you still will not inherit the kingdom of God? All that belief will do you no good and your effort to still partake in this religion even thinking it is the truth will all be done in vain if you keep on lying and believe in the lie. All the good things you are doing while being a member of that religion like going to every Sunday mass, praying the rosary, going to confession, taking the Eucharist, doing the seven sacraments, or being a member of the clergy priesthood of a church or is in the halls of Vatican either the pope, bishops or cardinals will not save you if you commit one sin of lying. It only takes one sin to end up in hell. Look what happened to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Only one sin they were kicked out of the garden and you who are lying will be kicked out of heaven. That should put fear in your heart to think seriously not lying. Luke 12:4-5 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! So, I would recommend all of you to be extra careful of what you are saying especially things that you say are not written in the inspired words of God in the Bible you could be blamed to send many to hell and yourself for lying. It will be a terrible day for you when you will face your King and Judge Jesus Christ and Him telling you that those doctrines you have been teaching and preaching and you were warned about them were lies and you did not believe it, and then be sent to hell. It will be too late to ask for forgiveness on that judgment day my friend. I recommend forgetting and leaving aside all those who are mentioned in the Bible like Mary, Joseph the saints that you put too much emphasis on as if they are important to be part of your salvation as not call anyone mother, holy father, dead saints, or one as vicar of Christ which the only one who is the Vicar of Christ is the Holy Spirit, not the pope. When Jesus ascended into heaven He told His disciples He was going to give us a comforter and that is the one we should all look up to and listen for what He was going to say to us and not add someone else in its place like Mary and all the saints because that would be committing the sin of idolatry which places the RCC and you in grave danger. Jesus said there will be many Christians who think they did good things in their life and will be shocked to find out on their day of judgment they are not saved. That also means that certain people they know are saved like the popes, bishops, cardinals, priests, Catholics even Protestant ministers, pastors, and Christians Protestants that could happen to them. Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ What you should all do is stick to the source of the word of God that's from the Bible get rid of all your pride in man-made additional doctrines and written books, and stop trying to add or look for something more than what is not in the Bible or come with your interpretation by twisting the Scriptures to justify your belief, it is extremely dangerous to your soul. This passage below in 2 Timothy proves to us, is all we need to know is how to be saved. I would almost say it is showing to us that the “Bible Only” (Sola Scriptura) is all we need for our salvation. We don't need another religion or books to tell us more about what we already have in the Bible. If we follow and obey the holy, inspired, infallible words of God in the Bible and take it as our source for our salvation then it is good enough. If we take it at its face value and in the context that it was written at that time then we would find it is not necessary to make one of our own. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. In conclusion. The Bible is all we need to know how to be saved. Adding more than what the Bible says could lead us to hell instead of helping us make it to heaven by false doctrines. It is safer that we stick to the words of God instead of the words of men and not venture somewhere else outside the Bible that nothing is mentioned in it you try to add more doctrines to improve your religion to bring more into your religion. In writing extra books to add or take out of the book, the Bible warns us not to do so. Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Deuteronomy 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Many religions and churches have walked further and further away from the truth and have become apostates and that is why so many are on their way to hell today my friend. In Luke 10:16 Christ said to His Apostles [first-century apostolic fathers], "Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; whoever rejects me rejects Him who sent me." Jesus Himself said clearly and unambiguously: "The churches that came many centuries after the first century apostolic fathers has rejected Him and walked away from His teaching through them which is a different gospel and made themselves a religion of their own and they called it Roman Catholic, but hijack the name Catholic, which means universal by the way, to say “You see we were there when Peter was alive and Jesus chose the Catholic church to be His church. That is a lie from the pit of hell, therefore it is another type of religious denomination like all the other apostate man-made religions that follow and that he hates". Jesus Christ's church is not a religion but a relationship. The true church says Jesus Christ is His body, "THE GREAT I AM, THE ROCK, CORNERSTONE, AND HIGHPRIEST, THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA" not a man-made building built by hands but built WITH HIS HANDS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WHERE THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAILED AGAINST IT.
if something isn't in the bible it doesn't make it false. it is only false if it contradicts the bible. purgatory doesn't contradict. the catholic church did and does look deep deep into scripture tradition and previous magisterial teaching of the past 2000 years before teaching any dogma or doctrine. if you can convince us it is false then yeah we'll stop but you can't because if you try you are not trying to prove man wrong but the Holy Spirit who taught man. we all know who wins and loses that fight. those who believe in lies that came later or persisted from before should seek truth and find it but we who are in truth will hold fast to it. not all lies condemn you to hell only those that are mortally sinful lies and even then while still alive you can repent and be forgiven. praise God for His mercy. going to mass on sunday is following the 3rd commandment which is still in effect. the rosary was given to us by mary who wants us to get closer to her Son. you know what the rosary is? it is a prayerful meditation on the gospel. going to confession is the way Jesus wants to forgive our sins. Jesus told us to receive the eucharist. we don't have to do all 7 most people will do 3 at the least. 7 is very unusual in the roman church since one sacrament stops you from getting another. the most a regular person would get is 6. you go less than what is written as i imagine you have 66 books in your bible. mine has 73. you are also going beyond what is written because the bible doesn't tell you what the books or the bible are. the saints help us on our journey by praying for us. i didn't understand the mother father part but i assume it stems from call no man father. i imagine you call your parents by their rightful titles as it is disrespectful to not do so in most cultures let alone what God thinks like the 4th commandment. st. paul calls himself father and abraham his father too. was he wrong in doing so? why did the Holy Spirit let him write that? the saints aren't dead. they are like Jesus (except in being God) more alive than you and me. vicar means representative. the Holy Spirit is that but so are the apostles and anyone who does what they did. the pope in a special way is the vicar as he is the shepard of the whole church while the true shepard of the flock is away. i do not see how listening to great teachers of the faith who had the Holy Spirit in large amount could possibly be idolatry. catholics do not say anyone is saved matter of factly. the church says what the road is and we try to walk on it. which is being in a state of grace. what we do know is certain people who are already in heaven praying for us like mary, joseph, peter, andrew, james, john, paul, mark, thomas, luke, matthew etc. the bible is not the only source of God's word there are things called apostolic tradition that was taught and is as much the word of God. there are also truths that we must up hold like trinity, 2 natures 1 person of Christ, mary mother of God etc. you follow the bible but you are not perfect and will hold to what you read which is not universal for ever person. you will believe something and someone else will not. can the Spirit teach you both contradictory doctrines? i doubt think so. what paul was telling timothy was the old testament but you would say the new testament is needed. the word complete there can also mean prepared. i would say it's safer to go by the bible as understood by the church Jesus established as the pillar and foundation of truth which will keep me safe from any heresy i can come up with by just reading the bible myself. that revelation verse was talking about the book of revelation itself. this will not happen but hypothetically if God inspired a biblical book today would you add it to the bible? that deuteronomy verse say you cannot add right? why are there books after it? i thought it says you cannot add. where is that church that has apostolic authority that whoever rejects it rejects Christ? is there no church today that faithfully holds to the apostolic fathers? the church lost in the second century to the gates of hell? where does the bible say that the church is a relationship? does God hate religion? was the jewish religion before Christ hated by God? how can you say the holy spirit will not allow the church to be defeated when you hold that the church ended in the second century? the church is made up of people who have faith in Jesus but it is also called a religion practicing certain things that He Himself told us to do. the church is a visible body of people who follow Christ by following His teachings as well as the apostles' teaching and being in submission to their successors who teach what they taught. the church is also invisible made up of people who believe but are not in the visible church those in the visible church and all those in heaven.
@@kwing6017 Nowhere in the Bible talks about a place called purgatory. Please give me some proof. You said “If something isn't in the bible it doesn't make it false. it is only false if it contradicts the bible. Well it does contradict the Bible then it is false and a lie and I can prove it. As example. The doctrine of purgatory was first established at the Second Council of Lyon in 1274. How could they know that when they were not even there when the apostolic fathers lived where none of them mention it either, therefore it is a man-made doctrine? Show me where is purgatory in the Bible passage of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man in a tormented place and Lazarus in paradise in the bosom of Abraham. Only two places. Where is purgatory in that passage? Why would the Holy Spirit teach men about a place called purgatory when Jesus Christ never mentioned it to His disciples while He was here on earth? Don't you think He would have said something about it if He created such a place? He talked 10 times more about hell than heaven. Sir, you are saying things that are not true which makes you a liar That's what happens when you are a Catholic they trained you very well to lie. You said: “Not all lies condemn you to hell only those that are mortally sinful lies“ No such things as mortal and venial sins in the Bible. Here is proof that the Bible will disagree with you; “The wages of sin is death” and “All liars will have their part in the lake of fire” which means all types of sin mortal (grave sins) and venial sins (white lies) all will send you to hell if you do not repent.
Did you know that God hates vain repetitions as the heathen did? For they think that they will be heard for their many words. God does not listen to your many words of the rosary prayer you will gain nothing and it is all vanity. The Rosary was invented by Peter the Hermit in 1184 AD again man-made doctrine. Jesus said to pray only to the Father who is in heaven in the quiet room of your house. Nowhere in the Bible speaks about a pope as Christ's representative here on the earth or even qualified to hold any office in church or any position especially this Mr. Francis how radical he has become. Jesus Christ does not need a vicar from down here. He is already present with us through His Holy Spirit who is guiding and teaching each one of us and performing miracles. He ministers through the saints to one another. The Lord Jesus Christ entrusted the universal care of souls into the safekeeping of the Divine Person of the Holy Spirit. Concerning this Third Person of the Godhead who was to be His substitute, the Lord promised that, "When he comes, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteous, and judgment." The Holy Spirit convicts of sin as He makes the sinner realize his lost condition and convicts him of his need for Christ's righteousness. He it is who brings a soul dead in sin to life. This miracle of grace is spoken of in Scripture as, "The exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which He wrought in Christ when He raised Him from the dead.” The majesty, greatness, and indescribable power of the office of the Vicar of Christ are such that a believer stands in awe of His divine Person. That any human being should lay claim to the office of Vicar of Christ seems absurd and blasphemous. Now have I convinced you? Are you ready to stop believing in this lie? Catholics please do not play games or with fire with your soul or you will end up being in the fire yourself for eternity.
@@jpd4676 purgatory was formally defined in the council but christians had a concept of it from the beginning by praying for the dead. those in heaven need no prayers and prayers are useless for those in hell. either they were praying for no reason or there prayers were efficacious to souls in need of purification from non serious sin. Jesus speaks of a sin that will not be forgiven in the next life that implies that sins can be forgiven in the next life. 1 corinthians 3:8-15 speaks of what is understood as purgatory just not naming it. the bosom of abraham isn't heaven so actually believe in 3 places. maybe it could be that it was purgatory a waiting area for righteous souls waiting for heaven. Jesus never formally taught the trinity either but it is true. there are sins that lead to death (1 corinthians 6:9-10) and sins that do not lead to death (1 john 5:17). the rosary was not invented by a man it was given by the mother of the Savior to a man. the concept existed before then too as the psalter which is praying all the psalms. praying as the heathens do means you say so many words but your heart isn't in it. the heathens thought that they could control God. the rosary prayed right with all your heart mind and soul is a very good prayer and meditation on the gospel. you are only to pray to the Father? you can't pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit that's weird why not? if you can only pray the our father how is that not repetitive? Jesus prayed repetitively in the garden before His arrest. sure pope isn't a word in the bible the word came later the concept was there in the start. no positions in the church? the apostles had the position of leadership they made people deacons elders overseers each with qualifications. francis has trouble with words but many slander him saying he denies truths of the church when he doesn't. he hasn't done anything contrary to bible, tradition, or church teaching. Jesus doesn't need anyone? why did he send His apostles to preach and teach with his authority. the Holy Spirit works in tandem with men not to the exclusion of men. he works in a special way through the pope who he preserves from teaching doctrinal error.
@@kwing6017 Just like I thought I get the same answer all the time. Catholics are like parrots. Sir all the examples you have given me were from man-made interpretations none of them were from the Bible. All I want and ask for is proof from the Bible and since we go by the Bible for the truth let's stick to the Bible for answers and not get it from men. Catholics cannot give me a single proof that they need to go get it from someone who was not there, to begin with, and who witnessed it and said it, and if they cannot they come up with scriptures and twist their meanings to fit their narrative but what it shows is how more ignorant they are when they come with unbelievable answers. I've given the answers to those Bible scriptures and debunked them completely and Catholics could not come back and defend it. It is like debating with Muslims. How about this Bible passage? Show me where is purgatory in the Bible passage of the rich man and Lazarus and it is not in the bosom of Abraham. The rich man in a tormented place and Lazarus in paradise in the bosom of Abraham. Only two places. Where is purgatory in that passage? Please show it to me. Do you want to know why the bosom of Abraham is not purgatory? Imagine poor Lazarus lived a life of complete poverty and suffering miserably and died righteously and you think him being in purgatory and for what reason? He was sinless holy and blameless no reason for him being there he would go directly to heaven instead. You see your explanation does not hold water. Please Catholics idolaters stop twisting the scriptures and lie at the same time. And don't think that the rich man who lived a life of wealth, pleasure, and sin died in sin and you think Jesus will accept him in heaven or even give him a second chance at the cherry? What a lie from the pit of hell. Where is God's justice if He gives him a second chance? Repent or you will likewise perish and end in hell yourself. If there was such a place called purgatory why Jesus Christ never mentioned it to His disciples while He was here on earth? Don't you think He would have said something about it if Jesus created such a place? He talked 10 times more about hell than heaven.
It's actually just grossly ignorant to say the vast majority of Protestants are not magisterial. Lutheranism, Anglicanism, and Presbyterianism do constitute the world's share of Protestants. So yes, we can be annoyed at Trent and Craig for attacking the lowest common denominator.
Would you not say that Presbyterianism falls under solo scriptura? Since they essentially reject the concensus of the church over time for a wide range of doctrines. They believe in tradition being authoritative but specifically reformed tradition from the 1500’s, which itself was derived essentially from solo scriptura. I agree lutherans and Anglican’s probably don’t fall under the criticism Craig and Trent make as neatly as the others.
All combined those variations of protestants do not outnumber the number of evangelicals and definitely don't make up the majority of protestants as a whole. Also having a committee while also being firmly within the sola scriptura tradition is not meaningfully different.
![กี่หมื่นฟ้า | Your Sky Series EP.1 [1/4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vLGjxFL6U_I/mqdefault.jpg)
As a catholic I love see orthodox and catholic voices work togheter on the trutch we know to be true.
Same
@@halleylujah247that’s a total lie. You guys absolutely no interest in “working together” beyond trying to further your insane latinic lunacy about the infallible papacy.
In the end of the day we're all Christians and all on the same side.
@@SuperTommox nope. The Latinic Lunacy of the papacy and you’re insistence on this heretical idea is why you schismed from the Church and continue to be outside the Church.
@@EricAlHarb Give us your best Orthobro impression please.
We all love to see EO and Catholics getting along, thanks guys
What's funny is that I was raised an Evangelical Pentacostal but when I submitted myself to God and prayed for Him to lead me to the truth and then read my Bible, it led me straight to the Catholic Church. I'm fully convinced that any Protestant who claims they're just going by the Bible are, in-fact, not going by the Bible. Only people who aren't actually looking for the truth, consciously or subconsciously, can remain Protestant.
@Lone_BrotherinChrist reformed, where God chooses who goes to hell before they're born? Is that the reformed you mean? Reformed where the bread and wine aren't the true body and blood of Christ and the sacramental priesthood is removed? Do they even have bishops?
That’s either a purposeful lie to deceive or ignorance. Either way your definition of Vicar of Christ is wrong. Servant not God on Earth.
Amen IsaiahINRI - I too was pentecostal and Holy Spirit led me to the one true church
same story her brother
Just subscribed to Your Channel! Thank you for this Apostolic Power Tag-Team! Blessings!
Fr. Sergio
Recently broke through the heresy of sola scriptura by Gods grace. Attending an Orthodox Church, it’s great to be inline with the one Church of the 1st millennium
So nice to see Catholic/Orthodox collaborate on beliefs we both hold to be true ❤️✝️
The Dad-joke apologetics are top tier Trent. No True Protsman 😂
Fantastic collab!
I absolutely love my Orthodox brothers and sisters and their liturgies. Great contribution!
Happy to see this collaboration. I miss seeing you on R & T. Just subscribed to your channel.
-a Catholic brother
This was really good! ☦️
Nothing better than people who think they just need to read the bible, but aren't literate enough to know that "solo" and "sola" are just different forms of the same word
We are happy to use prima scriptura, if you prefer.
@@clivejungle6999 lol. the point is that you just hide behind meme-jargon regurgitation that you don't even understand. thanks for proving my point.
@@zeroisnine Solo doesn’t even work in Latin. Something I thought you would know considering what a giant intellect you are declaring yourself to be.
That's kind of the point, 'solo scriptura' (sometimes nuda/naked scripture, as it's scripture stripped of councils, creeds, confessions, congregation/church )is an insult from those intellectuals who cling to sola Scriptura
The perfect summary of 'Solo Scriptura':
"If you're consistent with Sola Scriptura, then there is no truth, all that exists is will." - Matthew Raphael Johnson
Nevertheless, thanks Craig for having Trent. Major appreciation for both of your scholarly imputs on Theology.
Wdym? The truth is the scriptures.
1 Pet 1:
24 _"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:_
25 *_But the word of the Lord endureth for ever._*_ And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."_
Only the word of the Lord endures for ever. The will of God. Not the will of man.
@@Romans-hu3uy the will of man can be united with the will of God. You have to prove that that's not the case in this regard.
@Romans-hu3uy Sola scriptura makes hundreds of different interpretations of scripture, each one claiming they have the truth.
@@prayunceasingly2029
Just because some people claim Sola Scriptura does not mean their doctrine is biblical. And that doesn't mean Sola Scriptura is false: just because there are an infinite number of wrong answers doesn't mean 2+2 is an unsolvable problem.
2 Tim 2:
15 _"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."_
2 Tim 3:
16 _All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:_
17 _That the man of God may be _*_perfect,_*_ thoroughly furnished unto _*_all good works."_*
God gave us the scriptures as the mean to determine what is true and what is not.
That’s how we know something is true or something is false, by the scriptures.
So you can determinate what doctrine is biblical.
@@prayunceasingly2029
The will of man can be united with the will of God as long man obeys what God says. Even as Jesus, when he was in the flesh, submitted himself to the will of the Father:
Luke 22:
42 _"Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: _*_nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."_*
You are tempting this Catholic to give you a sub....
Do it :)
I’d love to see one of you guys interact with Martin Chemnitz’s Examination of the Council of Trent Vol. 1 on Sacred Scripture and the Eight Kinds of Tradition.
Great show. I'm an avid watcher of Trent. Love his books.
One small nitpick, it is "The Catholic Church" not "The Roman Catholic Church." The Latin (Roman) Rite is the largest segment, but there are 20 something other Rites...of which Trent is part of as he is Byzantine Catholic (which is essentially Greek Orthodox who is cool with the Pope).
Anyway, God bless everyone.
All the rites must pay homage to Rome and Rome holds exclusive power to stamp out those rites and force them to become Roman at any time.
It is not improper to call Rome what it actually is.
@@manny75586 council of rome 769 calls itself "roman catholic church"
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology
I found no such record of this for the Lateran council
Everything I have ever seen referrs to the Anglican Church inventing the term to both claim they are "Catholic" and at the same time, insult the Catholic Church by applying Rome to her name.
@@acekoala457
What you have said has nothing to do with the name of the Catholic Church. Even worse what you have just done is name the Catholic Church the Roman Church.
@@dave_ecclectic thats just not true orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2024/08/03/minutes-of-rome-769-against-lay-consecrations-iconoclasm/
Pope Nicholas 1 also uses the term a few times
No one could make a FLAWLESS (infallible or perfect) LOGIC out of FLAW (fallible or imperfect) PREMISE...
As the old saying goes... "THE MEANS DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE END."... but ... "THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS" ... Amen.
Exactly. That's why Sola Scriptura makes no sense. Scripture cannot be more authoritative than the process that gave us scripture. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Didn't realise WLC is a heretic.
Always has been
I felt like that moment in the debate was one of the more critical moments where Ortlund's argument lost a TON of credibility. He kind of tried to play it off in a half joking tone but it was an uncomfortable moment. You could see the fact that the existence of WLC played a direct role in Ortlund's evaluation of the seriousness of that particular heresy. You could see it on his face and feel it in his hesitation. I wish Trent had followed up with this question: "If William Lane Craig didn't exist, do you think you would have the same opinion towards those who fall into monothelitism?" I don't think Ortlund could have honestly denied that the existence of WLC colored his answer. It's basically an admission that he isn't basing his opinion on that off of scripture but rather his own personal experience and "feel" of the situation.
careful, use the word properly, your lack of Bible literacy is showing.
@@tony1685
He publicly teaches Heresy, ie Apollonarianism.
@@acekoala457 please use 'heresy' correctly.
ask if you need the Biblical definition of it.
So beautiful to see an orthodox brother working with a catholic brother unity will be easier with the advent of better communication through technology
The derisive tone is hardly something to win over Protestants, especially traditional ones with an understanding of what sola scriptura actually entails.
More patting each other on the back than a meaty discussion.
They covered that.
Only those Evil and Hypocrite People will claim that the WORD of God (Written Inspired Scriptures) given to Mankind is INCOMPLETE and INSUFFICIENT...
As a good old saying, "Before a Person knows something is INCOMPLETE (insufficient)... one must know the COMPLETE (sufficient) first."
Facts and Truth of the matter, Logically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
@jvlp2046
As a believer in Sola Scriptura, your comment is well intentioned and holds some truth, but is massively flawed.
You used a "good old saying" as a basis for your evidence of God's word being "incomplete", but your "good old saying" is not found in scripture. (Those who oppose Sola Scriptura can use this against you, because they can point out you are using NON-biblical sources to prove scripture. Just as they do with the church or tradition.)
Sola Scriptura is that God's word (the Bible) has self-attesting authority.
God's word has ultimate authority to that of the church and tradition.
Thus God's word is the sole-infallible rule of faith all other authorities must be both corrected and be founded upon.
The Bible's "completeness" is a different topic entirely.
@@FabledNarrative I did not claim that the WORD of God is Incomplete/Insufficient.. that was a response to someone (Blogger) who claimed that the Bible is Insufficient/Incomplete...
My point is, even if you are not a Christian, there is a way to KNOW the Inspired Scripture is Sufficient/Complete, profitable for doctrines, for Reproof, for Correction and Instruction in Righteousness... (ref. 2 Tim. 3:16)... Amen.
Take Note: ... "Before someone knows the Incomplete, Insufficient, faulty, flaw, fallible, Evil or hate... one must first know the Complete, Sufficient, Faultless, flawless, infallible, Good or love... respectively...
Facts and Truth of the Matters, logically with a little common sense reasoning... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
great discussion, some protestents only study their bible with a translation they like or with jehovahs witness' they take there "translation" and take there interpretation. really they should look at the greek, early church fathers, and history.
Love ur profile picture
Scripture can only be received in faith but faith only comes thru grace.
I never claimed that upon the Written Tradition completed around 110 A.D., the Oral/Spoken Tradition must stop. My point was, as long as the Spoken/Oral Tradition does not compromise (no contradiction) with the Inspired Complete/Sufficient Written Word of God (Inspired Scriptures), that is fine to practice... However, if it is not WRITTEN by context and meaning, then God has already decided that those Oral Traditions must cease/stop the practice...
WHY?... Because the Spoke/Oral and Written Traditions must be UNITED AS ONE, just like the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit...
For example only... If the Oral/Spoken Tradition practiced "REPETITIVE PRAYERS" while the Written was not Completed yet... but after completion, "IF" the Inspired Complete/Sufficient Written Scripture said "Do not pray the same Repetitive Words of Prayers over and over."... Will you still practice that same Oral/Spoke Tradition?...
Therefore, If it is WRITTEN by Context and Meaning/Definition (not by Specific Word/s), then, that is God's WORD and TRUTH... Amen.
You: WHY?... Because the Spoke/Oral and Written Traditions must be UNITED AS ONE, just like the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit...
Me: There is no Written Tradition without the oral tradition which established the canon, and thus, the Written Tradition. God did not give a written canon in inspired Scripture. So Scripture alone fails since it cannot start without oral tradition.
Of course, Craig and Trent would disagree with each other as to which side is cherry picking the ‘Tradition’ in regard to the issue of the papacy.
@@doubtingthomas9117there isnt a vatican i papal tradition
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology if by that you mean that there is not found in the Apostolic Tradition anything resembling Vatican 1’s claim of “papal infallibility”, I would of course agree 👍🏻
…However we’ve both seen Roman Catholic apologists try to make that very argument.
Truglia needs to get some sort of a setup where he doesnt always sound like he is in a bathroom. Get a halfway decent mic and talk directly into it man...
Craig offers great research and insight, conversation and debate, and we can hear him with the mic he has. If he doesn't want to upgrade like other youtubers it's because he's humble and a minimalist. If it works, it works. Spend money elsewhere!
He would probably appreciate a donation of a better mic.
@@acekoala457 This is the thing he does, he can get a microphone.
@@genevieverose1234 And every other person who does this this regularly gets a mic isn't humble? Minimalism doesn't preclude getting a microphone.
@dougmasters4561 at the end of the day i am not producing content for someone doesn't appreciate content. If i can just wave a wand and make instantly better video quality and audio quality would i do it? Of course. But, i wouldn't know what laptop to buy, what internet speed i need, what noise cancelation in my room, which room to look like a fancy studio that my kid is less likely to run into, which microphone to buy (i have a yeti, i thought that was good?), etc. someone may say "do your research" but that literally takes time away I don't have to research the primary sources AND to be Frank it does not come natural to me. I consider it vain to be too concerned.
I suppose you can watch my documentary films and read my books...you don't have to hear me talk :)
One thing that protestants like to do when you ask them where ss (sola scriptura for short) is in the Bible is to say that ss does not say that everything has to be in the Bible, therefore, it is not a contradiction that ss is not found in the Bible. They will say that the only thing ss says is that the Bible is the only infallible source of authority, and because of that you can use things as traditions if they don't contradict the Bible.
First, if ss does not say that everything has to be found in the Bible, it follows that doctrines like Mary's perpetual virginity do not need to be found in the Bible if the protestant wants to be coherent with what he's just said. Second, if I don't have to find everything in the Bible, with which authority should I validate it? Third, who will determine if tradition is really contradicting the Bible, since the one who can be wrong is the very person reading and interpreting the Bible and not the tradition? Fourth, if the Bible is the only infallible authority it means that you have to judge everything using the Scriptures. If you have to judge everything using the Scriptures, it means that you have to open your Bible and find a set of verses that explicitly or implicitly teach something that you can use to judge the tradition, the teaching, the doctrine, etc. (if "you have to use the Bible to judge everything" does not mean it, you definition is empty and meaningless). In other words, you have to find everything in the Bible. Ss is a tradition, show me where I can find a set of verses that can be used to confirm that the Bible is the only infallible authority (by the way, verses that show that the Bible is good, useful, inspired, the word of God, do not prove ss since ss does not say that, but the Bible is the ONLY INFALLIBLE authority). And if ss is not needed to be found in the Bible, with which authority do they validate ss? Who gave authority to it, and why is it valid? Who will determine that it is valid?
1:10:07 - They were Apostles. The whole point of Sola Scriptura is that we stay faithful to the teachings of the Apostles. We dont have the Apostles anymore. So what do we do? We have what they taught in Scripture. Sola Scriptura = Sola Apostolica.
Huh? They did have succesors, there is the Church
@@shamubilogbilog6456 What is some guy 500 years after the death of John going to know about the teachings of the apostles save for what is left of their teachings in Scripture? Do they whisper additional hidden teachings into their ears at ordination?
This isn't about some hidden knowledge. The Scriptures never present themselves as nor claim to contain the totality of everything the Apostles taught. St Paul said to hold fast to the traditions taught by other word or epistle. Presupposed in there is that there were instructions handed down by word which were not handed down by epistle. Every single epistle in the Bible was to an audience who had already been given Christian instructions of some sort. These instructions continue to be handed down, not secretly but openly, and over time we see records of them as the successors of the Apostles make reference to them. For example, the necessity (not optional) for Christians to celebrate Easter, or Baptism by triple immersion in the name of the Trinity, or prayers for the departed. These aren't occult teachings; they are simply teachings not explicitly mentioned in the epistles, because the Church never operated under a _sola scriptura_ model. In those days, the written word was closer to "hidden teachings" than the oral word because of such limited literacy and how expensive writing was. This is why the canonical Scriptures were read aloud in the liturgies. These presuppositions about oral tradition vs the canonical Scriptures only make sense in a post-printing press world.
Christ Jesus is a Good Shepherd who always knew His own FLOCK for they Hear His VOICE... (ref. John 10:14 / 10:27-28). How do they HEAR the VOICE of Christ Jesus?... (Simple)
Through READING the Teachings of Christ Jesus through His Apostles' WRITTEN WORD of God (Inspired Holy Scriptures) COMPLETED around 110 A.D. after the Gospel of John and God's Revelation, so that they could be guided accordingly by the Holy Spirit on how the PROPER WAY to Obey/follow the WILL of Father God/YHWH that is pleasing to/in HIS Eyesight...
Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
Can you post the link to Trent's original video you referenced in the beginning?
th-cam.com/video/5vvtNAYjG7M/w-d-xo.html&
Oh you mean this: th-cam.com/video/p8iztTWts-Y/w-d-xo.html
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology That second one, thanks!
When it comes to Religious/Spiritual Matters, there must be only ONE Church, ONE Inspired Scripture, ONE Way, ONE Life, ONE Truth, ONE Father God, ONE Son/Word/Christ Jesus, ONE Holy Spirit... can not be many sources of TRUTH... Amen.
Oral/Spoken and Written Tradition must be UNITED AS ONE without Contradictions, however, if it does, the Written Tradition must overrule/ supersede the practice of the Oral/spoken Tradition... As long as no contradiction, that is fine...
If it is not WRITTEN, therefore, it must be a False Teachings/doctrine/dogma... while if it is WRITTEN, therefore it must be the Biblical TRUTH.
St. Paul said, "DO NOT GO BEYOND/EXCEED WHAT IS WRITTEN" (ref. 1 Corin. 4:6)... or else, if you do, God's CURSE (anathema/eternal damnation) will fall upon you." (ref. Gal. 1:8)... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
I think Dr Gavin Ortlund, whom I have respect for, is starting to bump up against scripture v tradition in his recent episode defending the Trinity where he’s trying to explain the difference between “accretions” and doctrinal development.
It becomes very arbitrary on what’s an accretion and what’s doctrinal development.
I’m of the opinion you can’t hold to sola scriptura and accept some councils whilst rejecting others. As Trent put it, it’s very ad hoc.
It becomes incredibly hard to avoid being arbitrary when the Bible does not use the word hypostasis at all nor ousia like we do nowadays. I think a lot of Protestants are now realizing how problematic sola scriptura is from an existential standpoint: how do I know I’m interpreting this right?
Gavin has a clear methodology: whatever he likes from Tradition is simply explicating the clear teaching of the Scriptures, whatever he doesn't like is an accretion.
No scam, just plain truth and security.
I didn’t realize truth could uphold contradicting doctrines.
'Sola Scriptura' does not lead to any particular interpretation of the Bible; rather it is a method of interpreting the Bible that allows a person to claim any interpretation they wish. It is, in others words, eisegesis.
It's just relativism and why atheism is rampant in places protestantism long ago became the status quo.
nonsense, Bible has rules of interpretation.
@@tony1685is this evidenced by the unity within the Protestant tradition? The unity which Christ Himself prayed for? The Protestant tradition’s Achilles heel will always be their lack of unity. From the very beginning of their revolution, the spirit of division was at work.
If Jesus hadn’t prayed for unity, I’d say it’s not that big a deal. Except He did, because he knew it would lead to the discrediting of the message of the gospel by the unbeliever. The evidence of our failure to be united is all around us in the culture. Our current culture of death. We are in a post Christian society now. Disunity is not our strength. It only serves to damage the gospel. Christ only built one Church. There is no blueprint in the scriptures for one breaking off and forming one’s own. Cling to the traditions, oral or written. That is our encouragement. God Bless and keep you.
Please show me in scripture were it says Mary has the power to interseed prayers and is in heaven?
@@fredricos9468 what does that have to do with what was said? mary is a human and any human can intercede for anyone else. do you doubt that she's in heaven? she believed in Him usually that is what i hear the standard is.
what is the name of the book
you were referencing ?
The Shape of Sola Scriptura
The Apostles of Christ Jesus including Paul, Stephen, Barnabas, etc., and the Early 7 Churches of God in Christ of the 1st Cent. A.D. never made a SIGN of the Cross with their Right hand... only came from Roman Catholicism in the 4th Century A.D.
Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
So how is it that the book of Jasher is not considered as scripture when God himself has told us all to go to it as a testament of the Truth of the account in the authorized cannon?
Verbatim, is it not written in the book of Jasher?, twice.
Title means The book of the Just Man, AKA The record as it is.
I have been asking about this for four years, this time around the maypole, and not one of anyone who has read the comment or the hosts of the videos, yet not one reply.
While y'all are at it please answer me about who is the one who rested on the seventh day of the recreation/replenishment done in six days? Afterall Jesus said neither he nor his Father had ever rested.
Or the Annals of the Kings of Judah etc. Canonical recognition separates between what is useful or what God selects as true from a non prophehic source.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology guess you are not willing to answer my question as far as who rested on the seventh day.
Hint, and I saw a great battle in heaven and....was cast down.
@@neilhaverly4117 ..... easy, not sure if you're just being facetious or truly asking, since it's quite simple and I frankly don't believe you haven't gotten an answer:
1. You're confusing what "rest" means - Words can have different meanings, depending on their context, especially when what you're reading is a translation of a language long unused, which had it's own specifics and meanings. Example: When Christ says "let he who has ears listen" doesn't mean "hear me out" - It means "listen to what I'm saying and trying to teach you/explain to you, make sure to remember it and apply it carefully and truly to your life according to what you learned from it". This is something you'd never really grasp unless you have a bit of a background of how ancient hebrews communicated with each other.
2. To the topic at hand: Who rested on the 7th day? God did. What does it mean to "rest" in that context? To rule. Over His creation. What does it mean to "enter his rest"? To rule with Him over His creation.
The rest Jesus is refering to when neither He nor his Father having "rested" is the rest you have in mind - the "inactive" kind of rest.
Back to the initial point, words can have different meanings. The word "god" appears numerous times in the Bible and it's referring to different beings multiple times - How is that not confusing to you but this is?
The Written Original Greek Scripture of Matt. 26:44... "TON AUTON LOGON" which means in English "THE SAME THING" and not "THE SAME WORDS" (Ton Auton Logia)... This English Version (KJV) is WRONG, taken from the Latin Vulgate to favor the Dogma of the ROSARY... refer to the Original Greek Version...
Therefore, clearly... "THE SAME THING" (ton auton logon) means the same Prayer Request/Petition but not necessarily THE SAME WORDS (ton auton logia) used over and over again... Christ Jesus knew His Father God/YHWH is not DEAF... If Christ used THE SAME EXACT WORDS 3X in His own Prayer in Gethsemane, He would be contradicting His own Teachings to His Apostles...
The Biblical TRUTH shall set you FREE... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen..
Analogy... for example only... during your practice review test/exam, you got used to encircle the correct answer... When the actual test/exam begins, and the WRITTEN instruction was to underline the correct answer... will you still encircle the correct answer which you used to do?... Will that give you any credit from the examiner?... NOPE... all your answers are considered WRONG even though they were right, for just not following the WRITTEN Instructions... the same analogy...
If it is WRITTEN by context and meaning/definition (not by specific word/s) then, that is God's WORD, WILL, and TRUTH... Amen.
still waiting for one thing comparable to God's Word.
will check back tomorrow, church in the morning -- the Lord's day is here!
*Happy Sabbath!!!*
what do you mean comparable to God's word?
Yet again Tony I suggest you read the actual Bible to see the first Christian’s in the Bible celebrated on Sunday.
Unlike you SDAs we Catholics and Orthodox actually follow the Bible
Remember and I’ve shown you this countless times by now in the Gospels Jesus reaffirms all 10 Commandments EXCEPT the Sabbath…
@@irishandscottish1829 Christians worship 24/7 -- but none pretended the Lord's day changed to the 1st day of the week.
NONE.
ok, prove me wrong -- show me just a few times where the 1st day was sanctified, blessed, made Holy -- here's a few for the 7th day:
Gen 2:2-3, Ex 20:8-11, Mk 1:21, Mk 6:2, Luke 4:16, Acts 13:42, Acts 17:2, Acts 18:4, etc, etc, etc, etc
*Happy Sabbath!!!*
may the Lord's day -- *TODAY* -- be a blessing and church be wonderful for all Christians!
@@kwing6017 if we aren't to use His Word, what do we use for understanding Truth?
*Happy Sabbath!!!*
headed to church now, Jesus is there!
may the Lord's day be a blessing for you and yours!
@@tony1685
They Celebrated the "Prayers of the Breaking of Bread" on the 1st Day of the Week, the day of the Resurrection.
And the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
A book CONTAINS the "Word of God." A SCRIPTURE can only ever be a representation of that.
Otherwise, the writing itself becomes a focus of idolatry.
It is a TOOL.
Could Catholics consider William Lane Craig Christian if he holds to the one will of Christ? Would his baptism be valid?
It seems odd to speak of non inspired, not God breathed, Sacred Tradition and Councils. If it is from God it should be inspired. I will keep listening and if someone wants to clarify that would be great.
The first part is an unjustified assumption. Both Orthodox and Catholics would argue tradition and councils are inspired. Is the Trinity and deity of the Son and Holy Spirit not dogma? Both of which were definitely defended and dogmatized at Nicaea I and Constantinople I. If the councils definitely decided those issues (much like Acts 15 lays out), how could God working through them not be inspired?
On a personal note, my patron saint is Maximus the Confessor, whose works WLC has probably never read nor has he ever attempted to engage his arguments. I take it personally that Craig defends a heresy that my patron saint not only dedicated his life to combatting, but also has his tongue and hand cut off for fighting. Also, Craig is an Apollinarian atop that, Hershey this all matters.
Think of it this way, is it acceptable to be an Arian or Macedonianist? How about an Ebioine or adoptionist? All these positions can be reasoned from Scripture, so why deny them? If you can appeal to non-scriptural condemnations of these positions, the you really don’t have any defense of WLC.
Lastly, that which is not assumed is not redeemed (Ironically, this is an anti-Apollinarian argument made by St. Gregory the Theologian). If Christ did not have a human will, He did not redeem us since He lacked something which needed redeeming, especially something that needed it as desperately as our will. I recommend literally anything Maximus wrote on this subject. His stuff is superb.
@@deadalivemaniac You stated, "The first part is an unjustified assumption. Both Orthodox and Catholics would argue tradition and councils are inspired." I thought the CCC stated only Sacred Scripture is inspired. Both Sacred Tradition and the Councils are from God, Agreed! They are both God's Revelation. However, I don't think we can call Sacred Tradition inspired in the same way the Sacred Scripture is.
@@deadalivemaniac I believe all the councils to be authoritative and binding.
The Big Problem was that after the WRITTEN TRADITION was finally completed in around 110 A.D... Some Early Christians do not want to stop/cease those Oral/Spoken Traditions that God had decided not to WRITE down, which means, not to continue the practice...
Before St. Paul died in around 67 A.D., he wrote to the Thessalonians (2 Thessa. 2:15) to Hold Firmly on both Spoken/Oral and Written Traditions... why?... because the Written Tradition was just beginning to be written down at that time and had not been completed yet... Around 40 years after St. Paul died of Martyrdom (beheaded) when the Written Tradition was finally completed...
God had summarized all Christ Jesus had done on Earth which were so many that were witnessed by some, and God had selected only those with Great IMPORTANCE (relevance) with the Process of Salvation of Mankind, for if all EVENTS be written down, the whole world can not hold them... (ref. John 21:25).
After the Written Inspired Scripture was completed in around 110 A.D., we must all verify and check whether the Oral/Spoken Tradition does not contradict the Written Tradition because that is the WILL and WORD of God... "If it is not WRITTEN, then it is not INCLUDED to be practiced anymore... while if is INCLUDED to be still practiced, therefore, it must have been WRITTEN down... logically speaking with a little common sense... Amen.
The Oral/Spoken Tradition and Written Tradition must be UNITED as ONE... Just like the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT... Amen.
Great stream. Trent Horn is not a Popespaliner, I think I'll check him out.
Trent Horn cooked. viva el Papa Francisco ✝️
Bless the Holy Father 🙏🏼
We only need LOGICAL REASONING, which unfortunately some don't have... That is the reason why God made Mankind above the Animal Kingdom...
If the WORD of God (Written Inspired Scripture) is "INSUFFICIENT" (Incomplete), how can it REPROOF, CORRECT, and INSTRUCT in Righteousness that the Man of God may be PERFECT, thoroughly FURNISHED unto all GOOD WORKS???... (ref. 2 Timothy 3:16)
"If sinful (Evil) people know how to give their children good things, how much more God our Father in Heaven"... (ref. Matt. 7:11)...
With this passage, will God/YHWH give INSUFFICIENT (Incomplete) "WORD of God" (Inspire Scripture) for those who seek God, His TRUTH, and Righteousness???... NOPE, it must be SUFFICIENT/COMPLETE...
As a good old saying, "Before a Person knows something is INCOMPLETE (insufficient)... one must know the COMPLETE (sufficient) first."
Facts and Truth of the matters, Biblically and Logically speaking... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen.
protestant's reject good works
@@bibleman8010 Fortunately, I am a True Christian who worships God in Spirit and in Truth (without Physical Stone/Wood Idols, Statues, Sculptures, Rosary, Pendants, Scapulars, etc., and by kneeling and kissing the hands of the Priest/Pope)... and I am not a Protestant Reformer (Prodigal Son of R.C.C.) who came out from Roman Catholicism...
@@jvlp2046Baptist?
@@Ruudes1483 BAPTIST is one of the many Protestant Reformer Denominations... They are the PRODIGAL SONS of the Roman Catholicism... Amen.
Thomas Aquinas once noted that no matter how flawless one's logic was, if it began with a faulty premise, then the end result would be a conclusion founded upon error.
Christ used scripture consistently when defending truth. Was he "Sola Scriptura"? 🤦
*False Dichotomy Logical Fallacy* -- what's written would never contradict what He stated that wasn't written.
Yikes someone needs to read there Bible because Christ clearly said things that are not found anywhere in the OT thus He was using Jewish tradition also!
Here is one example Matthew 23:1-3 when He references the Pharisees sit on the seat of Moses which is a phrase not mentioned anywhere in the OT but is found in the Mishna (the oral teachings)
@@irishandscottish1829 paragraph 1 & 2 -- yikes, someone needs to gather and comprehend CONTENT -- 'tradition' can NEVER be in contradiction to His Word -- Isaiah 8:20, Deut 4:2, 12:32, Rev 22:18
ya have to think a bit, Sir -- as hard as it may be.
*Happy Sabbath!!!*
i pray the Lord's day (today) is a blessing and church is wonderful for all Christians!
I wana debate Trent horn on sola scripture how do I do it
Hey Adam!
Say you don't understand Sola Scriptura without using those words...
Like all complicated doctrines, the comparisons must be made 1:1. Taking a high, Catholic view and comparing it with a perspective of the uneducated Protestant is fallacious and uncharitable. The educated Protestant knows this about sola scriptura: the church has authority; the Catholic church preserved and defended both the Old Testament (which predated it) and the apostolic writings which became the New; the boundary on church decree is the apostolic authority; according to the apostles, that authority is present in their letters; therefore, scripture provides the doctrinal bounds on church authority; therefore, the sola scriptura position is the same as Catholic magisterial limitations. Dear Lord Christ, your church needs charity and obedience to your call to reconciliation. No Protestant will argue that someone reading the scripture alone under a tree cannot receive insight from the Holy Spirit, and neither would any Catholic. But! No Protestant will argue that this type of reading will give you everything you possibly need to know, only that anyone doing so will find sufficiency for salvation. Why is this controversial?
when you say protestants know the church has authority what do you mean by church? the position i've usually heard is that the church is the invisible body of believers and that's all. that clearly doesn't jibe with all the disagreement between believers how can the church under that understanding have any authority at all? i think it cannot and that is why among other reasons they say scripture is the only thing to go by. it is odd a protestant could say that the catholic church gave us scripture and then deny everything else it taught. i think the usual thing they say is that the early church recognized what was scripture organically and just used them no need for the church at all. the catholic church is bound by its apostolic authority that means she cannot teach error. that authority comes from Christ to the apostles passing it along through their successors the bishops and in union with the bishop of rome.
scripture provides bounds yes because it is true but tradition and infallible declarations are also bounds. ultimately the truth on faith and morals is the bound. sola scriptura in practice is bounded not by truth but by human imagination. that is why heretics can twist scripture to teach false doctrine to their own destruction of course. the Holy Spirit speaks to us all through scripture yes but cannot teach 2 different things about one topic. the controversy is that church authority binds us to one understanding when the church defines it and sola scriptura doesn't bind anything and allows for wildly different views on every topic thus creating endless division and confusion at times heretical.
@@kwing6017 I'm a Protestant theologian who doesn't fly any denominational flag, but went to a Baptist school. I'm certainly out of step with them on a lot, but *they* taught the authority and good work of the Catholic church in preserving for us a right and good New Testament. The denial of other things taught by Catholics (not everything they teach) comes from historically recognizing that doctrines have accreted over time, some make apostolic sense, ie, fit with apostolic teaching, and others are more difficult to justify. I don't find this to be a reasonable basis for the radical lack of fellowship we all have. And this is back to my first statement, we can't compare the good of one with the bad of another. The bounds you're talking about work to exactly the same outcomes for each. Badly understood solas lead those who are not of the faith to justify their sin. Badly catechized Catholics do the same. Comparing the liberalizing slide in both will show that the same kinds of relativistic justifications are employed against the authority of scripture for the Protestant and against the traditional magisterial teaching of the church for the Catholic. The heart is always always the issue, not the type of hedge against sin. That's why the truly heretical is showing up increasingly among Catholics as well as Protestants, even while revivals are going on among both. That's called the NT church. And to be truly fair, there are only a handful of matters where we have wildly different views.
@@AndrewKendall71 that is interesting that they trust the catholic church enough to give us the 27 books from many other contemporary works thought as scripture but then say they are wrong on other topics. the catholic church is the pillar and foundation of the truth or it isn't. a heresy creeps in it is dealt with and anathematized. those who hold to sola scriptura as a whole good faith or not believe in wildly different things and that is not ok. poorly catechized catholics eventually get corrected if its bad enough or get lured to protestantism and leave catholicism. in protestantism any liberal can start up a church and deceive the people with scripture the highest authority. no one can do anything about it except feel something is off and leave to find a more traditional church. in catholicism something can be done if clergy are being liberal their superior can remove them from ministry and excommunicate them. if a bishop is doing it then the vatican will eventually hear of it and remove him from ministry and excommunicate him. usually it would be longer than that trying to bring them back into to order. the problem we have in catholicism is those who are obsessed with the extraordinary form of mass that have a problem with authority. in general sola scriptura in practice doesn't safe guard orthodoxy. the church does.
@@kwing6017 "Trusting" the church to do the right work in preserving and providing the NT is no surprise since we know the means they employed. They documented and did the work - proper hermeneutical and exegetical analysis, cross referencing the OT, etc. It's obvious that good work was done. So, no trust without verification is needed. They did it and it's obvious, and educated Protestants feel a fellowship with those theologians, councils, scribes. And the Catholic church - even according to the Catholic church - is not the only church and therefore isn't the only pillar and foundation. The broader, global church that has the true Christ as its center and purpose is indeed the pillar and foundation (perhaps best ecclesiastically organized by Catholics, but not only), and it is such based directly on apostolic teaching and conformity with it and with Christ. And this can be seen in and out of Catholicism to varying degrees. Again, not blind trust. We have the apostles' words and the OT that predates the church. We can know when and how people truly go wrong. You're not wrong about Protestants being able to start up a church and push people into error. That's why Protestants have so strong an emphasis on deeper and deeper study, and they/we do so based on orthodox commentary, with prayer and expectation of grace, gathering a lot from the traditional church understanding in matters that are otherwise unclear (which is few). The degree to which the Protestant in the pew gets things wrong as individuals in a church, however, occurs at the same rate as in Catholicism. And yes, the church has a recourse, but I have very very rarely seen it used. So, parishes continue under bad priests with a similar expectation by the wider church that Protestants go by - an expectation of grace for those truly trying to follow the biblical Christ.
@@AndrewKendall71 the same church that did the work for the new testament gave us a 46 book canon for the old testament and at ecumenical councils defining dogma for all to believe or be anathema. the global church made up of all the faithful include all sorts of contradictory doctrine. baptism saves some say no. eucharist some say is Christ true real body and blood others just a memorial a symbol a remembrance others it's just spiritual. the list goes on. how can one global church not agree on anything? that isn't truth. that isn't being guided by the Holy Spirit into truth. the catholic church affirms "this church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure". meaning the catholic church says she has the fullness of truth but other places also have truth but diminished. yeah bad priests do not often get stopped. i don't know why their bishops don't correct them or if they will not be corrected just remove them from ministry. maybe it has something to do with supply of priests or something else. the parishioners are there primarily to receive Jesus and they like any faithful can tune out bad teaching but at least there is teaching that is defined and we can cling too. unlike in protestantism where there is an array of teaching even within denominations. you only really have your own interpretation of the bible versus the bad pastor's interpretation where either you are right or you are wrong along with your pastor.
Here are many Scriptures in the Bible that speak about lying. As you can see by these many Scriptures written in the Old Testament as well as in the New Testament God means what He says that He is very serious and angry with those who lie because it is an abomination to the Lord that sends many to hell.
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Leviticus 19:11 ‘You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another.
Psalms 119:163 I hate and abhor lying, But I love Your law.
Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, But those who deal truthfully are His delight.
Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness does not lie, But a false witness will utter lies.
Proverbs 13:5 A righteous man hates lying, But a wicked man is loathsome and comes to shame.
Proverbs 17:7 Excellent speech is not becoming to a fool, Much less lying lips to a prince.
Hosea 11:12 “Ephraim has encircled Me with lies, And the house of Israel with deceit; But Judah still walks with God, Even with the Holy One who is faithful.
Zephaniah 3:13 The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid.”
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
Colossians 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds.
1 Timothy 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron.
James 3:1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
Revelation 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Are you claiming someone is lying? Or just sharing random biblical facts because that's your thing online?
@@prayunceasingly2029 Yes the RCC is the lying one.
💯 TH
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY... is not a prayer but an ACCLIMATION to God/YHWH...just like Hail, Hail, Hail Caesar... or Long, long, Long Live the King... etc... Aside from that, Christ Jesus prayed only 3X with the same request (but not the same exact words) to take away the task from Him but not His will but God's will be done in the Garden of Gethsemane not 50X with exact words or phrases or more in one (1) Cycle of Prayer continuously without stop... while Christ Jesus stopped 2X in His prayer request to go to his apostles who were sleeping... Do you see the Difference?...
"NOT USE VAIN REPETITIONS" (me' battalog'es'ete in Greek) in prayer... what does it mean in Context and Meaning? ... Let us Analyze, why will a Righteous Person turn or convert the Greetings of Angel Gabriel into Prayer 50X?... "Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with you (and so on)."...(ref. Luke 1:26-38)...
What is the valid LOGICAL Reason behind the SAME PHRASES over and over in a single CYCLE of Prayer?... Why 50X not 40X? or 12X?, 7X?, or 3X only?, those are Biblical Numbers... Does the Bible somehow have an explanation for it?
When we pray daily, it does not mean we use THE SAME WORDS/PHRASES over and over to God... For Father God/YHWH is no DEAF, logically speaking...
R.C.C. was used to pray the NOVENA Prayers, a prayer composed by someone (Author) to be recited as if they are from their own, personally, over and over again with lighted candles even in the morning...
Christ said, "God knows already even before you ask God your needs in prayer." (ref. Matt. 6:8)...
It is hypocritical to say, where can we find the literal words RAPTURE, TRINITY, or BIBLE in the Scripture?... Obviously, no one can find them because the Original Scriptures were not written in English... You must find the ESSENCE, CONTEXT, and MEANING/DEFINITION...
Again, when it is WRITTEN by context and meaning (not specific English word/s), that is God's WORD, WILL, and TRUTH... Amen.
And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again.
The vain, repetitious prayer Jesus warned about was the type of prayer described in
1 Kings 18:26-28:
Quote:
“And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made. And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.”
The pagans would call upon the name of their gods over and over until they got the god to respond. If their god responded, it made the shaman or holy man a big shot, capable of calling the gods down from heaven. That's the "vain" part.
The "repetitious" part is not the problem. Jesus prayed the same prayer three times in the Garden. The angels in heaven endlessly repeat "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME." Now that's repetitious prayer, but it's pleasing to God. Just like the Rosary. Keep on prayin'!
Here is a list of some in each category that you can check in your Bible. (V) 1King 18:25-29, (U) Isa 6:3, (U) Dan 3:52-90, (V) *Mt 6:7, (U) Mt *26:44, (U) *Lk 6:12, (U) Lk 18:1,9-14,*21:36, (U)*Col 1:9, (U) 1Thes 3:10,5:17, (U) *Jam 5:16, (U) **Rev 4:8
I Thessalonians 5:16-18 NKJV
Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
@@bibleman8010 FYI, the Written Original Greek Scripture of Matt. 26:44... "TON AUTON LOGON" which means in English "THE SAME THING" and not "THE SAME WORDS" (Ton Auton Logia)... This English Version (KJV) is WRONG, taken from the Latin Vulgate to favor the Dogma of the ROSARY... refer to the Original Greek Version...
Therefore, clearly... "THE SAME THING" (ton auton logon) means the same Prayer Request/Petition but not necessarily THE SAME WORDS (ton auton logia) used over and over again... Christ Jesus knew His Father God/YHWH is not DEAF... If Christ used THE SAME EXACT WORDS 3X in His own Prayer in Gethsemane, He would be contradicting His own Teachings to His Apostles...
The Biblical TRUTH shall set you FREE... Praise be to God in Christ Jesus... Amen...
@@jvlp2046 love your stupidity now go learn to speak and read greek
Sola Scriptura= the Scriptures alone are the inspired-inerrant Word of God. Therefore they are the ultimate authority for the Christian and the Christian church. There is no equal nor greater authority than the Scriptures.
Where is the official list of all the traditions of the roman catholic church to be found?
@@Justas399 the Orthodox definition of tradition is all matters we have consensus demonstrably from antiquity. There are a list of canons on these questions , but this is not exclusively the list. Other matters have historical consensus but no canon, similar to how Protestants treat their own biblical canon.
Justas399
Where is the list of books within scripture, to identify this body of work? I didn't add _official_ as if it is *IN* scripture it would be official.
Where does scripture say there is no greater or equal authority than Scripture?
@@dave_ecclectic so there is no "official list of all the traditions of the roman catholic church to be found?"
The Catechism of the Catholic Church contains all of the church’s teachings and traditions.
The Church debated and CHOSE the list of books which are to be accepted as Scripture in the 5th century.
What was the infallible rule before? It was the Church.
So your saying that God's word, "Jesus is not the only way for salvation?
Luke 11:27 And it happened as He spoke these words that a cirten women in the crowd raised her voice and said, " Blessed is the womb that bore you and Blessed are the paps which nursed you "!
28 But Jesus said, " More than that, " Blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it"!!!
they didn't say Jesus isn't the way. they would both agree with that luke quote
It is fine to say things about your religion to defend its doctrine to be true whether you are a Catholic or a Protestant or any other religious belief like the Mormons, JW, SDA, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Sikhism, Taoism, Islam, etc... but one thing that could be against you and your religion is that if you say something doctrinal that is a lie you will all end up in hell for eternity for being a liar my friend.
As an example, the Roman Catholic church keeps preaching the doctrinal of “Purgatory” to be true with many other doctrinal that are not Biblical, and the Protestants teach to their members that their salvation is guaranteed to be secure in the heresy doctrine of Calvin of Once Saved Always Saved, should you all not make sure before making those claims to look deeper into the Scriptures that they are true where it could make you lose your salvation instead.
If there is a possibility to convince you that those doctrines are lies and you deny it to be a lie and keep preaching that lie and as far as your faith is in that religion and say you are a born-again Christian and have been baptized, do you know you still will not inherit the kingdom of God? All that belief will do you no good and your effort to still partake in this religion even thinking it is the truth will all be done in vain if you keep on lying and believe in the lie.
All the good things you are doing while being a member of that religion like going to every Sunday mass, praying the rosary, going to confession, taking the Eucharist, doing the seven sacraments, or being a member of the clergy priesthood of a church or is in the halls of Vatican either the pope, bishops or cardinals will not save you if you commit one sin of lying. It only takes one sin to end up in hell. Look what happened to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Only one sin they were kicked out of the garden and you who are lying will be kicked out of heaven. That should put fear in your heart to think seriously not lying.
Luke 12:4-5 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
So, I would recommend all of you to be extra careful of what you are saying especially things that you say are not written in the inspired words of God in the Bible you could be blamed to send many to hell and yourself for lying.
It will be a terrible day for you when you will face your King and Judge Jesus Christ and Him telling you that those doctrines you have been teaching and preaching and you were warned about them were lies and you did not believe it, and then be sent to hell. It will be too late to ask for forgiveness on that judgment day my friend.
I recommend forgetting and leaving aside all those who are mentioned in the Bible like Mary, Joseph the saints that you put too much emphasis on as if they are important to be part of your salvation as not call anyone mother, holy father, dead saints, or one as vicar of Christ which the only one who is the Vicar of Christ is the Holy Spirit, not the pope.
When Jesus ascended into heaven He told His disciples He was going to give us a comforter and that is the one we should all look up to and listen for what He was going to say to us and not add someone else in its place like Mary and all the saints because that would be committing the sin of idolatry which places the RCC and you in grave danger.
Jesus said there will be many Christians who think they did good things in their life and will be shocked to find out on their day of judgment they are not saved. That also means that certain people they know are saved like the popes, bishops, cardinals, priests, Catholics even Protestant ministers, pastors, and Christians Protestants that could happen to them.
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
What you should all do is stick to the source of the word of God that's from the Bible get rid of all your pride in man-made additional doctrines and written books, and stop trying to add or look for something more than what is not in the Bible or come with your interpretation by twisting the Scriptures to justify your belief, it is extremely dangerous to your soul.
This passage below in 2 Timothy proves to us, is all we need to know is how to be saved. I would almost say it is showing to us that the “Bible Only” (Sola Scriptura) is all we need for our salvation. We don't need another religion or books to tell us more about what we already have in the Bible. If we follow and obey the holy, inspired, infallible words of God in the Bible and take it as our source for our salvation then it is good enough. If we take it at its face value and in the context that it was written at that time then we would find it is not necessary to make one of our own.
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
In conclusion. The Bible is all we need to know how to be saved. Adding more than what the Bible says could lead us to hell instead of helping us make it to heaven by false doctrines. It is safer that we stick to the words of God instead of the words of men and not venture somewhere else outside the Bible that nothing is mentioned in it you try to add more doctrines to improve your religion to bring more into your religion. In writing extra books to add or take out of the book, the Bible warns us not to do so.
Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Deuteronomy 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Many religions and churches have walked further and further away from the truth and have become apostates and that is why so many are on their way to hell today my friend.
In Luke 10:16 Christ said to His Apostles [first-century apostolic fathers], "Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; whoever rejects me rejects Him who sent me." Jesus Himself said clearly and unambiguously: "The churches that came many centuries after the first century apostolic fathers has rejected Him and walked away from His teaching through them which is a different gospel and made themselves a religion of their own and they called it Roman Catholic, but hijack the name Catholic, which means universal by the way, to say “You see we were there when Peter was alive and Jesus chose the Catholic church to be His church. That is a lie from the pit of hell, therefore it is another type of religious denomination like all the other apostate man-made religions that follow and that he hates". Jesus Christ's church is not a religion but a relationship.
The true church says Jesus Christ is His body, "THE GREAT I AM, THE ROCK, CORNERSTONE, AND HIGHPRIEST, THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA" not a man-made building built by hands but built WITH HIS HANDS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WHERE THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAILED AGAINST IT.
if something isn't in the bible it doesn't make it false. it is only false if it contradicts the bible. purgatory doesn't contradict. the catholic church did and does look deep deep into scripture tradition and previous magisterial teaching of the past 2000 years before teaching any dogma or doctrine. if you can convince us it is false then yeah we'll stop but you can't because if you try you are not trying to prove man wrong but the Holy Spirit who taught man. we all know who wins and loses that fight. those who believe in lies that came later or persisted from before should seek truth and find it but we who are in truth will hold fast to it. not all lies condemn you to hell only those that are mortally sinful lies and even then while still alive you can repent and be forgiven. praise God for His mercy. going to mass on sunday is following the 3rd commandment which is still in effect. the rosary was given to us by mary who wants us to get closer to her Son. you know what the rosary is? it is a prayerful meditation on the gospel. going to confession is the way Jesus wants to forgive our sins. Jesus told us to receive the eucharist. we don't have to do all 7 most people will do 3 at the least. 7 is very unusual in the roman church since one sacrament stops you from getting another. the most a regular person would get is 6.
you go less than what is written as i imagine you have 66 books in your bible. mine has 73. you are also going beyond what is written because the bible doesn't tell you what the books or the bible are. the saints help us on our journey by praying for us. i didn't understand the mother father part but i assume it stems from call no man father. i imagine you call your parents by their rightful titles as it is disrespectful to not do so in most cultures let alone what God thinks like the 4th commandment. st. paul calls himself father and abraham his father too. was he wrong in doing so? why did the Holy Spirit let him write that? the saints aren't dead. they are like Jesus (except in being God) more alive than you and me. vicar means representative. the Holy Spirit is that but so are the apostles and anyone who does what they did. the pope in a special way is the vicar as he is the shepard of the whole church while the true shepard of the flock is away. i do not see how listening to great teachers of the faith who had the Holy Spirit in large amount could possibly be idolatry. catholics do not say anyone is saved matter of factly. the church says what the road is and we try to walk on it. which is being in a state of grace.
what we do know is certain people who are already in heaven praying for us like mary, joseph, peter, andrew, james, john, paul, mark, thomas, luke, matthew etc. the bible is not the only source of God's word there are things called apostolic tradition that was taught and is as much the word of God. there are also truths that we must up hold like trinity, 2 natures 1 person of Christ, mary mother of God etc. you follow the bible but you are not perfect and will hold to what you read which is not universal for ever person. you will believe something and someone else will not. can the Spirit teach you both contradictory doctrines? i doubt think so. what paul was telling timothy was the old testament but you would say the new testament is needed. the word complete there can also mean prepared. i would say it's safer to go by the bible as understood by the church Jesus established as the pillar and foundation of truth which will keep me safe from any heresy i can come up with by just reading the bible myself. that revelation verse was talking about the book of revelation itself.
this will not happen but hypothetically if God inspired a biblical book today would you add it to the bible? that deuteronomy verse say you cannot add right? why are there books after it? i thought it says you cannot add. where is that church that has apostolic authority that whoever rejects it rejects Christ? is there no church today that faithfully holds to the apostolic fathers? the church lost in the second century to the gates of hell? where does the bible say that the church is a relationship? does God hate religion? was the jewish religion before Christ hated by God? how can you say the holy spirit will not allow the church to be defeated when you hold that the church ended in the second century? the church is made up of people who have faith in Jesus but it is also called a religion practicing certain things that He Himself told us to do. the church is a visible body of people who follow Christ by following His teachings as well as the apostles' teaching and being in submission to their successors who teach what they taught. the church is also invisible made up of people who believe but are not in the visible church those in the visible church and all those in heaven.
@@kwing6017 Nowhere in the Bible talks about a place called purgatory. Please give me some proof.
You said “If something isn't in the bible it doesn't make it false. it is only false if it contradicts the bible. Well it does contradict the Bible then it is false and a lie and I can prove it.
As example. The doctrine of purgatory was first established at the Second Council of Lyon in 1274. How could they know that when they were not even there when the apostolic fathers lived where none of them mention it either, therefore it is a man-made doctrine?
Show me where is purgatory in the Bible passage of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man in a tormented place and Lazarus in paradise in the bosom of Abraham. Only two places. Where is purgatory in that passage?
Why would the Holy Spirit teach men about a place called purgatory when Jesus Christ never mentioned it to His disciples while He was here on earth? Don't you think He would have said something about it if He created such a place? He talked 10 times more about hell than heaven.
Sir, you are saying things that are not true which makes you a liar That's what happens when you are a Catholic they trained you very well to lie.
You said: “Not all lies condemn you to hell only those that are mortally sinful lies“
No such things as mortal and venial sins in the Bible. Here is proof that the Bible will disagree with you; “The wages of sin is death” and “All liars will have their part in the lake of fire” which means all types of sin mortal (grave sins) and venial sins (white lies) all will send you to hell if you do not repent.
Did you know that God hates vain repetitions as the heathen did? For they think that they will be heard for their many words. God does not listen to your many words of the rosary prayer you will gain nothing and it is all vanity. The Rosary was invented by Peter the Hermit in 1184 AD again man-made doctrine. Jesus said to pray only to the Father who is in heaven in the quiet room of your house.
Nowhere in the Bible speaks about a pope as Christ's representative here on the earth or even qualified to hold any office in church or any position especially this Mr. Francis how radical he has become.
Jesus Christ does not need a vicar from down here. He is already present with us through His Holy Spirit who is guiding and teaching each one of us and performing miracles. He ministers through the saints to one another.
The Lord Jesus Christ entrusted the universal care of souls into the safekeeping of the Divine Person of the Holy Spirit. Concerning this Third Person of the Godhead who was to be His substitute, the Lord promised that, "When he comes, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteous, and judgment."
The Holy Spirit convicts of sin as He makes the sinner realize his lost condition and convicts him of his need for Christ's righteousness. He it is who brings a soul dead in sin to life. This miracle of grace is spoken of in Scripture as, "The exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which He wrought in Christ when He raised Him from the dead.”
The majesty, greatness, and indescribable power of the office of the Vicar of Christ are such that a believer stands in awe of His divine Person. That any human being should lay claim to the office of Vicar of Christ seems absurd and blasphemous.
Now have I convinced you? Are you ready to stop believing in this lie? Catholics please do not play games or with fire with your soul or you will end up being in the fire yourself for eternity.
@@jpd4676 purgatory was formally defined in the council but christians had a concept of it from the beginning by praying for the dead. those in heaven need no prayers and prayers are useless for those in hell. either they were praying for no reason or there prayers were efficacious to souls in need of purification from non serious sin. Jesus speaks of a sin that will not be forgiven in the next life that implies that sins can be forgiven in the next life. 1 corinthians 3:8-15 speaks of what is understood as purgatory just not naming it. the bosom of abraham isn't heaven so actually believe in 3 places. maybe it could be that it was purgatory a waiting area for righteous souls waiting for heaven. Jesus never formally taught the trinity either but it is true.
there are sins that lead to death (1 corinthians 6:9-10) and sins that do not lead to death (1 john 5:17).
the rosary was not invented by a man it was given by the mother of the Savior to a man. the concept existed before then too as the psalter which is praying all the psalms. praying as the heathens do means you say so many words but your heart isn't in it. the heathens thought that they could control God. the rosary prayed right with all your heart mind and soul is a very good prayer and meditation on the gospel.
you are only to pray to the Father? you can't pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit that's weird why not? if you can only pray the our father how is that not repetitive? Jesus prayed repetitively in the garden before His arrest.
sure pope isn't a word in the bible the word came later the concept was there in the start. no positions in the church? the apostles had the position of leadership they made people deacons elders overseers each with qualifications. francis has trouble with words but many slander him saying he denies truths of the church when he doesn't. he hasn't done anything contrary to bible, tradition, or church teaching.
Jesus doesn't need anyone? why did he send His apostles to preach and teach with his authority. the Holy Spirit works in tandem with men not to the exclusion of men. he works in a special way through the pope who he preserves from teaching doctrinal error.
@@kwing6017 Just like I thought I get the same answer all the time. Catholics are like parrots. Sir all the examples you have given me were from man-made interpretations none of them were from the Bible. All I want and ask for is proof from the Bible and since we go by the Bible for the truth let's stick to the Bible for answers and not get it from men.
Catholics cannot give me a single proof that they need to go get it from someone who was not there, to begin with, and who witnessed it and said it, and if they cannot they come up with scriptures and twist their meanings to fit their narrative but what it shows is how more ignorant they are when they come with unbelievable answers. I've given the answers to those Bible scriptures and debunked them completely and Catholics could not come back and defend it. It is like debating with Muslims.
How about this Bible passage? Show me where is purgatory in the Bible passage of the rich man and Lazarus and it is not in the bosom of Abraham. The rich man in a tormented place and Lazarus in paradise in the bosom of Abraham. Only two places. Where is purgatory in that passage? Please show it to me.
Do you want to know why the bosom of Abraham is not purgatory? Imagine poor Lazarus lived a life of complete poverty and suffering miserably and died righteously and you think him being in purgatory and for what reason? He was sinless holy and blameless no reason for him being there he would go directly to heaven instead. You see your explanation does not hold water.
Please Catholics idolaters stop twisting the scriptures and lie at the same time. And don't think that the rich man who lived a life of wealth, pleasure, and sin died in sin and you think Jesus will accept him in heaven or even give him a second chance at the cherry? What a lie from the pit of hell. Where is God's justice if He gives him a second chance? Repent or you will likewise perish and end in hell yourself.
If there was such a place called purgatory why Jesus Christ never mentioned it to His disciples while He was here on earth? Don't you think He would have said something about it if Jesus created such a place? He talked 10 times more about hell than heaven.
It's actually just grossly ignorant to say the vast majority of Protestants are not magisterial. Lutheranism, Anglicanism, and Presbyterianism do constitute the world's share of Protestants. So yes, we can be annoyed at Trent and Craig for attacking the lowest common denominator.
Would you not say that Presbyterianism falls under solo scriptura?
Since they essentially reject the concensus of the church over time for a wide range of doctrines. They believe in tradition being authoritative but specifically reformed tradition from the 1500’s, which itself was derived essentially from solo scriptura. I agree lutherans and Anglican’s probably don’t fall under the criticism Craig and Trent make as neatly as the others.
@@BendyBeamits far more complicated than that, like FAR more complicated
Video reply time haha
@@EthanMiller-ul9sp No no my short TH-cam comment captures the entire situation 😂
All combined those variations of protestants do not outnumber the number of evangelicals and definitely don't make up the majority of protestants as a whole. Also having a committee while also being firmly within the sola scriptura tradition is not meaningfully different.
there really isn’t any papal teaching that is “non-infallible” as per Vatican I