No, this is a strange comment: I like to drink milk and hold it in my mouth and pretend I'm a geyser at Yellowstone National Park and spit it up onto the ceiling, then stand under the ceiling-milk rain and pretend I'm on a planet with giant cows that make milk rain.
@@adamk.7177 Hmm. Spelling? Check. Grammar? Check. Ideas of life on other planets? Check. I just switched to low-fat milk, so dreaming of milk-rain seems legit. But imagining that you're a geyser in Yellowstone? Yep, you got me, that is strange :-)
WOW , i never imagined such persecution was so close in time to Christianity becoming official religion , like there were people who were alive to see both ?
Oh yes. It was a collective cultural paradigm shift and it happened quite rapidly. The old order kicked and screamed all the way to its ultimate demise. There are modern parallels but I'll let you decide what those are.
@@barahng The obvious one is secularism in the west replacing Christianity, the trouble is you can’t really replace something with nothing so the pendulum will either swing back to Christianity or everyone’s going to be Muslim in 100 years.
@@barahng I decided to edit this comment to what it is now ^^ the reasons and the significant original parts of it can be found within the pretty interesting discussion below 👇
@@postholer Christianity wasn't enforced until it became the official religion of the empire. So the previous persecutions had nothing to do with that (which you admitted and oversimplified latter in the comment, so I don't see the point of, and the connection with, the first comment).
@@juliankraus1011 "The old order kicked and screamed all the way to its ultimate demise" pretty much refers to the point where it did become the state religion ^^ at least that's how I understand it. And since modern parallels were suggested, I felt the urge to point out that the "paradigm change" in question didn't happen because of Christianity but because of the general monotheistic tendencies of that time (mid 3. to 4. century) that didn't happen quite rapidly...until Christianity "won" and became the state religion ^^ and then (and that was the other point I wanted to get across) we had a rapid shift from polytheism and +/- religious tolerance to a monotheistic system, which was the true paradigm shift, the religion being Christianity is only of secondary relevance (in my opinion). So...I felt inclined to comment because of the parallels to modern day politics pointed out at the end of the comment in question ^^ Thanks for answering!
As a Christian, it is always very good to see an area of Christian history covered by a reliable and credible secular communicator. Plus, it was all in good faith (pun intended)
“History records the tragic fact that men have gone to war and cut each other’s throats because they couldn’t agree as to what was to become of them after their throats were cut.” Walter P Stacy
Hey, the Middle Ages experienced a relative level of peace and many would argue capital punishment made Europe in that period more law abiding. War should be avoided, but if Catholicism is true, it's worth fighting for.
@@franciscasilva8406 Duh. People in power love to use all possible arguments to gather support for their cause. But the real deal is to stay in a position of power.
@@franciscasilva8406 I have read that early Christianity was seen as a front for Judean royalist movements; hence more of a political than a spiritual threat...
"Christendom has had a series of revolutions and in each one of them Christianity has died. Christianity has died many times and risen again; for it had a God who knew the way out of the grave." - Gilbert K. Chesterton
Amen, as a Christian this perfectly encapsulates why Christianity has survived so many threats to it's existence throughout human history. The Islamic invasions, the Roman persecutions, the purges of secular regimes, it doesn't matter what it is.
@@mademoiselledusfonctionell1609I have tried implementing it in my own life and it just feels so alien and wrong I doubt the conclusion that the majority of people did this before the industrial age. I have relatives who lived in times before manmade electric lights were available en masse where they lived and none of them mentioned anything like it.
PAX DEORUM is a Latin phrase that translates to "peace of the gods". It was a central goal of Roman state religion, representing a mutually beneficial state of peace between the Roman people and their deities. In this state, the gods would protect the public welfare of Rome, while the Romans would provide the gods with the worship and cult they desired
Because they denied the existence of the Roman gods, Early Christians were often called atheists. Rome had a very wide pantheon incorporating almost every deity from every corner of the empire, not just the major Greco-Roman ones. For someone not just to say "My god is best/special/most powerful" but also "And your gods don't exist" was completely alien to the mind of antiquity. In the Mel Brooks comedy movie "History of the World Part I" the "stand-up philosopher" says "These Christians are so poor! (How poor are they?) They're so poor they only got one god! We Romans, the only we we don't have a god for is premature ejaculation!" Despite being a comedy movie and deliberately anachronistic, it's a pretty accurate picture of the Roman mindset.
@@Ganondorfdude11 THERE IS O N L Y one / 1 GOD = and HE is watching, ... 2 Chronicles 16: 8 - 9, etc Hanani's Message to Asa …8 Were not the Cushites and Libyans a vast army with many chariots and horsemen? Yet because you relied on the LORD, He delivered them into your hand. 9 For the eyes of the LORD roam to and fro over all the earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose hearts are fully devoted to Him. You have acted foolishly in this matter. From now on, therefore, you will be at war.” 10 Asa was angry with the seer and became so enraged over this matter that he put the man in prison. And at the same time Asa oppressed some of the people.… ------------------ P E O P L E -----------ARE STILL ANGRY, WITH ANYONE SEEKING / KNOWING / DOING THE '' THINGS PERTAINING THE TRUE GOSPEL ''. Like keeping those 10 commandments, especially number 4 '' remember , the Sabbth Day, to keep it Holy ''. Saturday, on our ancient roman pagan calendar, devised by men ; and flawed. God marks time, by the celestial bodies.....which Directly, Reflect on the moon cycles. READ Leviticus ch 23 and Exodus 20, for GODS' TRUE HOLY DAYS ! HE MADE ALL THAT THERE IS.,....any ' other gods'.....are ALL A BIG FAKE, FAT LIE OF / FROM SATAN THE DEVIL , which Still Rules. AND GOD RAINED DOWN FIRE AND BRIMSTONE,...AND SODOM AND GOMORAH WERE NO MORE ....''' FACTS OF ARCHAEOLOGY ! GO see the sulphur,...over there ! This modern ' system of babylon '''' started by none other , than....wait for it.....NIMROD....just after the Tower of Babel, in Babylon. Real, on the ground, FACTS.
Yeah... Augustine tells us how they worshipped their gods. People got sick of it, that's why Constantine happened. It's unnatural the things Rome did in peace.
Christians were considered to be what we would call “absolute barbarians” nowadays - poorly educated, unruly, warlike, dressed in black, dirty, unshaven and foul smelling… they would be the religious Islam terrorists of nowadays. Until Christianity took over high ranking females /women in the Roman Empire - Christianity was doomed. The only reason Christianity became popular - it took away the bloody “sacrifices” which were greatly misused by the priests/clergy. Animals were being raised just to be sacrificed - cats, chickens, roosters, goats, sheep, pigs, calves cows and bulls. Now your history !!
Christianity by that time already existed beyond the borders of the Roman Empire, in Persia, in Armenia, in Arabia, in Aksum (roughly today's Ethiopia), in the south of India
By 303, there were plenty of Christians outside of Rome. I can name a few places Ethiopia, Armenia, and even India. The Sasanian empire was tolerant towards Christianity too.
Yeah, historically monotheistic places generally loved Jesus and Christianity Ethiopian Orthodoxy and Assyrian/Armenian Churches of the East were already established Persians, especially. they fully believed he was the return of their prophet, Zoroaster. King Cyrus is considered a messiah in the Bible. and the "Wise Men of the East" (Majus) gave Jesus gifts were of Zoroastrian Persian Faith.
people refuse to accept it; but there were many holy lands, positive to Christendom, across the known world, even in such an early period of christian history; had their own branch of monotheism Indians supported it bc they already had Jains and Jews; Persian and Judeo-Christian theology are near-identical, Ethiopia has a deep relationship with God and Judaism. Armenia and Assyria are the weird outliers, honestly. I can't think of any reason they'd be so pro-christian without outside influences (besides general anarchism outside their walls)
@@nxtvim2521 Assyrians were like the first peoples to follow the teachings of christ. They're not outliers they're just maintaining a long line of Christian faith that's very interwoven with their culture. Do you remember where Jesus came from? haha
Yes, and within the Roman empire they may have been too numerous and too much part of many non-Christian people's social networks in many localities around the Mediterranean to be stamped out quickly, even though they were still a small-ish part of the empire's total population. And the political climate could change in their favour with every new usurper who gained control of the throne.
A great musical masterpiece which is about the persecutions under Diocletian is the oratorio "Theodora" by Handel the German-English composer. Especially moving was the production two decades ago in Glyndebourne, England by Peter Sellars which set the story in contemporary times. So moving was this production that ambulances were on hand by people overcome by this work and its tragic finale.
7:11 This is when the food in the arena took its first major hit. From defeated warriors and the occasional dead gladiator or equally well fed political traitor, it went down to scrawny malnourished Christians all at once. And it was only to go down from there.
Diocletian's concerns would seem strange to us by any measure. He became such an enthusiastic gardener after he retired, that he responded to a plea for him to un-retire thus. "If you could see the magnificence of these cabbages I've grown, you would never ask such of me."
Eusebius’ work “Martyrs of Palestine” describes the 10 years of this horrific event in his local area. I made an illustrated audio book of it on my channel.
I know the title is clickbait, and really is just talking about Rome, but I really wish it wasnt. In 301 Armenia adopted Christianity as its state religion. It wasn't going anywhere in 303AD.
There were also Christians in Persia, Ethiopia, Arabia and India. Diocletian destroyed many early Christian writings which are only available in ancient Ethiopia, Old Slavonic and Persian languages. The St. Thomas Christians preserved ancient documents, but the Portuguese destroyed them, thinking they were all heretical. This persecution was terrible, but there were already Christians outside the Roman Empire.
Good video, but the notion of Julian attempting to create a "pagan church" hierarchy to rival Christianity is hamfisted and a bit out of date, not to mention less than precise when dealing with such a complicated topic. I would heartily recommend "Julian's Gods: Religion and Philosophy in the Thought and Action of Julian the Apostate" by Rowland B. E. Smith for a scholarly assessment of his theology and best speculation on his nuanced intentions. I would also recommend "Emperor and Author: The Writings of Julian 'the Apostate' " by Nicholas J. Baker-Brian for a good analysis of the writings left to us by Julian, to further add color to his thought. He really is so much more complex a character than a man trying to ape or rival Christianity in some way, and his theological disposition is worthy of many more studies.
@@Anonymous-wd6ik Specifically to re-centralize Jewish worship in Judea and undermine the Christian prophecies around the Third Temple. This is 200 years after the Bar Kokhba Revolt, your implication that anything done that tangentially serves their interests implies control over leaders or nations is quite literally insanity.
Could you make a video on religious practices done by Germanic auxilia? I've heard of Mercury-Hrabnus and Mars-Thingsus but it's so hard know were to find information on obscure deities
I don’t think you will find much more than conjecture. Mars Thingus could convincingly be Tyr/Tiw given his association with oaths and law and Thing being a law giving assembly in Germanic terms. Tyr/Tiw also being syncretised with Mars hence Tiw’s day being cognate with Mardi
@edhaworth8151 I mean in my mind it just seems so odd that given Germanic auxilia learned Latin and were literate at least to some degree but no diaries have been found that I know of aside from little Vindolanda note scraps, but I'm a modern person and wouldn't have the same internal dialogue to record.
Reconstructed names are easy enough with Wōdnaz being attested on the Vindelev (connected to Vindolanda with Proto-Germanic *Windōlandau/*Windōlaibō?) medallion but I'm grasping at straws, it's just sad so little detailed writings like the Bela Germanicae didn't get to us
Hey man I love your channel. I had a note for you regarding lighting in your talking head shot. You’re clearly using some nicer lights set to either side of the camera to light your face, but I’m assuming there’s also socket lighting in the ceiling of the room you’re filming in. There is a bulb directly over your head casting unflattering shadows on your face causing a subtle skull eyes/hitler stache effect. If turning off all the overhead socket lighting in the room makes the background look too dark I’d recommend just unscrewing the bulb directly over your head - at least when you film segments like this.
I have read somewhere that in the Edict of Milan Constantine took the credit for an earlier edict of toleration by his rival Maxentius. I would be interested to see a video with your views on this.
Acts 5:38-39 “So in the present case, I tell you, stay away from these men and leave them alone. For if this plan or this work is of human origin, it will fail; “but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even be found fighting against God.” They were persuaded by him.
Side note: my level of respect immediately jumps through the roof when people don’t introduce themselves or their channels. “Hey guys welcome back to my Chanel” is like homicidally enraging to me. Within literally 7 seconds of this video I was sat like a school kid being learned on some things. That’s how it should be.
Good to hear mention of the oppression of the Manicheans - a campaign of repression that preceded by a year the Christian persecution. Did the Edict of Toleration by Galerius, or the Edict of Milan suspend persecution of the Manicheans? Or was oppression continued, on into the reign of Theodosius? Or, were the Manicheans given breathing space between the Edict of Milan and when Theodosius considerably escalated oppression around AD 382?
@@SD-wg3xo He never claimed to be The UnBegotten Father.. but He says “You see Me you see The Father”. He said “I and My Father are One”. He said “Believe In Me As You believe In The Father”. He said “I came from Heaven”. YHVH surely has an eternally plurality.. demonstrated in Zechariah 2:8-11.. YHVh of Hosts says “YHvH Sent Me”…. (That is Jesus) …. Since the SHEMA says YHVH is ONE GOD…. There cannot be 2 YHVHs.. since Jesus identified as The One Who Came From YHVH.. there is no other conclusion.. He is YHVH. Consider John 1 “The LOGOS is both GOD and With GOD”. You are a living being.. You are your Word… and your Word is with you. Both can be true. Finally if you look at Revelation 21:7 Jesus says “I will be their GOD”. There is no denying Who Jesus claimed to be.
I love told in stone, i usualy watch it stoned and nerd out to the closes person to me (my dog lol) but i struggle to find other chanels that are as captivating as well as scholarly, i dont nessesarily want the matterial to be delivered compellingly but the material itself to be compelling, is there any other channel anyone can reccomed that is similarly educational and scholarly as is told in stone? Please let me know😁 ( sorry if i have some bad grammar)
@@adizmal I'll check those out. For Gael, Military history channels such as History Marche, Historiograph and Baz Battles are a little less academic, History for GRANITE is focused on the Pyramids, History with Kayleigh and Stephan Milo are quite academic but more into archeology and paleontology. Have fun :-)
8:30 to say that the persecution started the Donatist schism is a stretch. The tensions that eventually led to the schism (rigorist vs laxist) we’re already a serious issue by the time of cyprian. It’s more accurate to say that Constantine’s policy triggered the schism rather than the great persecution
Excellent video as always. I'm actually studying the New Testament for the first time, and so this is a coincidental blessing. Thank you for your work, Garrett.
The comments could stand to learn from your consistent professionalism and decorum professor Ryan. Also, we have the same first name. Never see that much, even online!
Do you guys actually have any a well preserved and documented religion or are you larpers like the “Norse” who hang around in circles and sing kumbaya because they don’t even know anything about Norse paganism because it was basically completely destroyed.
@@blackkennedy3966 What an unnecessary and nasty comment. If you don't care for others to judge or mock you, then I would advise not doing it to others.
@ it’s legitimate curiosity because I assumed Islam with the whole thing about one god and no idols would’ve stamped down hard on it considering isis is blowing up statues of a dead culture just because it’s an “idol” and in the past the caliphates tried to destroy the pyramids for the same reason but it cost too much money and manpower. People are easier to destroy if you catch my meaning. Same thing happens with Norse all the holy sites destroyed converted into churches trees cut down all religious rites and rituals lost all we have is the list of gods and a bunch of dweebs pretend to follow the old religion not even knowing anything about it. The most well preserved would be the greco-roman Hellenic paganism.
@@blackkennedy3966 do you hear yourself? Everything was destroyed ON PURPOSE so that edgelords like you could lord it over future non-xtians that they don’t really know what their ancestors did. It’s despicable behavior you are exhibiting. Monotheistic beliefs aren’t better, but its adherents are definitely more destructive. When people want to reconnect with what has been lost by exploring what we still have, it has absolutely no effect on you whatsoever. People are curious about the past and their roots. People are tired of the abrahamic nonsense. You honestly sound like you need to get some tx
Christianity was far from almost vanishing even in the hour of its greatest persecution. With the example of its own founder who himself went through a prolonged execution and was then said to have risen again, Christians had an enormous reservoir of inner strength and resolve to draw from. As Tertullian had written almost a century before: "the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church."
I don't know about the reasons, but you're absolutely right that the persecution didn't come close to stamping out Christianity. It's hard to say if it even realyl slowed its growth noticeably.
I've never heard of Jesus being referred to as the 'founder' of Christianity. He wasn't worshipped in his life. I had always imagined it as developing over the first century AD. Thanks for the perspective!
@@akimmel6941 In fact, the New Testament contains numerous verses where Jesus was worshipped by various people. Matthew 8:2 refers to a healed leper who worshipped Jesus. Matthew 9:18 states that a ruler knelt before Jesus after he had healed his son. There are a number of other verses as well. Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that they thought Jesus was divine, this could have been indicative of a reverential attitude to someone they thought was a great prophet or miracle worker. But that people revered Jesus during his lifetime is clearly asserted in numerous passages throughout the New Testament. As far as Jesus being the founder of Christianity goes, Matthew 16:18 states that Jesus, addressing Peter, one of his disciples, says: "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it," so the claim of Jesus as founding the Christian faith is made by the Gospels as well.
@@akimmel6941 That's an incredibly short amount of time for a religion to form though because He is also estimated to have conducted His ministry in the first century AD, and all of his disciples believed He was genuinely God, and they recorded that people called Him Lord. And they were all willing to die brutal deaths for their beliefs. Keep in mind, those people claimed to see Him rise from the dead and claimed to see Him perform miracles. Really makes you wonder. At the very least you must concede that the circumstances of Christianity's rise as a faith are the most extraordinary out of all known religions.
Being Christian back then must've been strange to others who kept their pagan religion. They were borderline nietzchean in their focus on spirituality without classical tradition/practice and saw them as a much more modern version of Judaism. Also, keep in mind that Rome had a very strong military culture, seeing Christ's servant theology be a huge clash to Rome's master/military beliefs.
Christians were even more troublesome for rulers of old tradition, due to their organized but isolated strong-knit communities; a hierarchy that recognizes some distant religious figure (not the current emperor and his dynasty) as supreme authority; and their un-conformity, or even downright hostility, toward established beliefs and traditions. Worse, they have a nasty habit of converting well-adjust civilians into their cult. I wonder if the pagan Roman Emperors (as well as the Japanese Shogun, Chinese and Vietnamese Emperors) view Christianity like the West view communist during the Cold War.
Interestingly, there evidence that Christianity spread through the Roman Legion quickly and early. Similar outside religions/gods had done the same like Mithraism. A few scholars argue that by the time Constantine had his vision huge sections of his army were already Christian and some suggest even the majority of his forces were. It would make sense since the common ranks were filled with the lower classes. Also, the oldest known inscription related to Jesus is a piece of graffiti a thought to be made by a Roman soldier making fun of a fellow soldier’s Christian belief (it’s a body of a man crucified with a donkey’s head). Some very significant early Saints were also Roman soldiers George, Demetrios, Maurice, Eustace, Forty Martyrs of Sebaste, etc. and then there is the Centurion in the Gospels who Christ indicated had more faith than anyone in Israel.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard his full name until now… Suddenly I’m wondering if all the other Roman names I thought I knew were just as absurdly awesomely long.
They normally had 3, given name, family name and nickname. Take the example of Gaius Julius Caesar. Given name: Gaius Family name: Julius Nickname: Caesar Anything beyond three were normally titles
@@kobblestonemc Oh, okay, I see: OP is shocked at the number of people who think the world would have been better off without Christianity. Well, I am similarly shocked - that number should be higher.
This is an excellent short documentary. It would be great if you would do a longer documentary on the Church of the East and when it got started. There are not too many reliable sources for such a documentary, but it would be most interesting. It's amazing that the Caesars in Rome persecuted Christianity and yet that's where the Popes began to proclaim the greatest church in Christendom, the Catholic Church; and also it was Pope Pius XII and the Catholic Adolf Hitler that caused the dearth of six million Jews in Germany's concentration camps.
Love the content, and I have read your books :-) but could you in the next video move the light you got over you head down, so you dont look like the walking death ;-D
The "acts of Pilate" that Maximinus ordered distributed: are those the same "Acts of Pilate" that make up the first half of the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus?
Not Christian, Im native American and I follow my traditional religion, but I respect Christians alot cuz they're mostly nice. Shame we have so much bad blood between us because of some shitty men in power and the way of thinking of the time. Though it's always fun to see how much our religions overlap. Like single creator deity who is about love and teaching our children to do good things and be moral. Thought we don't need stuff like hell or sins or stuff like that to get the same points across. Found that unfortunate cuz it seems a lot of ppl get misery from their religion when it involves those sort of aspects.
Agree! If you’re curious about the overlap between Native American and Christian beliefs, check out the work of Chief Joseph RiverWind. He wrote a book called “that’s what the old ones say”. Also technically the bible teaches a “second death” (destruction/ annihilation) rather than eternal torment. The medieval Dante version of hell was invented by the Manichaeans and brought into Christianity by Augustine of Hippo.
We are still amazed, inspired, and emboldened by the martyrs and confessors today (the confessors are those who suffered greatly but didn't actually die as a result of the persecutions). Because they are also saints in heaven, we pray for their intercession as well. It's good to have friends in high places!
@@RPe-jk6dv, the Megiddo Church in Israel is one prominent example. It's dated from around AD 230 and was abandoned around AD 305, right around the Diocletian persecution, as evident in the plastering of its now famous mosaic floor, the oldest archeological artifact that declares Jesus as "God". Also, what is now called the Church of St. Pudentiana in Rome was the seat of the Bishops of Rome in the Pre-Constantinian period prior to the donation of the Lateran Palace by Constantine where St. John Lateran now stands. Though the actual building isn't Pre-Constantinian, the site is. A church was erected during the time of Pope Pius I (AD 140-155) over a 2nd-century house, reusing part of a Roman bath facility which is still visible in the structure of the current apse. During the pontificate of Siricus in the 4th century, the site was transformed into a basilica and the renovated building which stands now follows that basilican format. This makes St. Pudentiana one of the, if not, the oldest continuously-used site of Christian worship in the world with a direct succession of buildings and renovations.
Ya the degenerate nihilists are everywhere these days. Sad. But still nowhere near as bad as it was for our brothers and sisters during the periods from this video.
"Thy Martyrs, O Lord, in their courageous contest for Thee received as the prize the crowns of incorruption and life from Thee, our immortal God. For since they possessed Thy strength, they cast down the tyrants and wholly destroyed the demons' strengthless presumption. O Christ God, by their prayers, save our souls, since Thou art merciful."
@@PomazeBog1389 Hi Pomaže. I did enjoy your Achilles joke on the other video. I don't have much grasp of Slavic languages, does your username mean "Helping God"? Cheers
Christianity really got a lucky strike after those series of persecution. On the other hand bad luck seem had befallen upon Manichaeism such that the once rival to Christianity was virtually forgotten.
@@0ut0fafricaa Still incorrect. Here are some examples of how christianity slowed social and scientific progress: Outlawing heliocentrism for over a century, outlawing and destroying rare scientific texts, pushing for creationism in schools, outlawing gay marriage, banning gays from adopting, "deconversion therapy",... Christianity has been a pox on humanity since Constantine and remains so to this day.
@@0ut0fafricaa Then you're still wrong, here are some examples of how christianity slowed social and scientific progress: Outlawing the heliocentric model for over a century, banning and destroying rare scientific works from non-christians, banning LGBTQ marriage, stopping LGBTQ people from adopting, "conversion therapy". Christianity has been a pox on humanity since Constantine and remains so to this day.
@@XarXXon If that's stuff is social progress, then thank God us Christians put up such resistance to it, historically. Just look at the fruits of the Sexual Revolution today. Civilizations collapse when they embrace sexual freedom. And look what science has brought us. We are living in a technocratic and scientific dictatorship under constant surveillance and future that looks like we'll be ruled by psychopaths and AI.
I heard someone saying that you partially look like a typical ancient Roman from one of the statues. Are you descended from a Roman patrician by any chance?
What is really tragic and heartbreaking is how the persecution of Chriatians under even the most evil Roman Emperors like Nero, etc only lasted a few years, unlike the persecution under Muhammad that has lasted for fourteen centuries.
@danrhinehart1134 there was no persecution of Christians under Muhammad. Jihad Islam is a rather modern thing. For the first ten centuries Arab conquerors didn't mind practicing other religions, but the Islam worshipers were getting better treatment and less taxes. In other words, Arabs didn't conquer the lands to spread the religion, but to gain power and resources.
Can you imagine a time when being Christian was considered anti-social, then another period of history where being not Christian was considered anti-social 🤣
@nsbd90now The thing is, there's so many flavors different theological takes of christianity, especially after the reformation. So you need to be. It's specific. Prior to the reformation, not counting short lived heretical movements There's about maybe four or five different churches. All of them still exist today, by the way. Are those the ones who have problems with? Or is it gonna be one of the countless flavors of the post reformation world? And post great awakenings in the US movements that we see?
@@MrJMB122 That's the whole point. Jews, Christians, Muslims... all countless flavors, as you have put it. No truth. No agreement over centuries. And now, in 2024 they are only a negative destructive force on the entire planet. Decent people leave those legacies and reject them.
Title is somewhat misleading as the video focuses on Europe/Roman empire when Christianity was far more extant than that. For instance it thrived all over West Asia and beyond, including what is now modern day Sudan and Eritrea/Ethiopia regions of Eastern Africa where it became the state religion of variosu kingdoms as early as the 4th century
The Jews had already caused trouble for the Romans before and were given exemptions, and early Christians fell under that umbrella too, but Christians were trying to distance themselves from Judaism and also were actively trying to convert Roman citizens to their religion and were spreading across the empire, while the Jews were perfectly happy to more or less mind their own business and keep Judaism Jewish. Christians were making problems for themselves and were actively ‘harming’ Rome by reducing the number of worshippers and sacrifices for the Roman gods.
@@Mfields4517you don’t know what you’re talking about, Judaism was actually something of a fad in Rome prior to the rise of Christianity, which is part of the reason why Christianity was able to spread so far so fast.
@@BobbyHill26you’re also wrong. All of the early Christians were Jewish, called Nazarenes. And Jesus wasn’t the only messiah claimant of the late second temple period. Not by a long shot. Do you all not know about Simon Bar Kokhba or anything like that?
I am interested if you think Christianity might've helped preserve the empire past its "due date." In my opinion Christianity's emphasis on unity amongst its followers on matters of doctrine and practice was more useful for the state of Rome rather than the more fragmented cults of the traditional Roman faith. How unified was the pagan Roman faith? How significant were the differences of doctrine and theology in their day and was it like what we see in current religions?
Generally speaking Rome wanted you to sacrifice to the state's most important patron god, Jupiter, as well as the cult of the ascendant Augustus, at least early on.
Julian was far smarter about it. He had the larger goal of eradication but he isded his decrees in ways that seemed haphazerd and only obvious in hindsight so there was no onvious strategy to counter him. He went out of his way to NOT martyr anyone. He attacked Christianity on theological grounds (his weakest strategy according to both Christian apologists and his own reflections later). He kept bishops in his inner circle which undercut clsims of intolerance. He actively promoted Judaism to give a non problematic (they'd do sacrafices and pray for the Empire so long as they didn't have to do it in the name of the Olympians) option for Christians to go without outright abandoning their beliefs. His masterstroke, which he only made after critically weakening Christianity, was requiring the Classics to be tought by those who lived by those teachings, this was a secular position at face value but made it so Christians were cut out of the education process while Hellenic teaching were favored. If he'd lived or been replaced by someone that shated his religious opinions, Christianity would have been reduced to a small following in Palestine and communities outside the Empire like Ethiopia and Arabia. It'd have otherwise been eradicated, much as the Muslims did to Zoroastrianism.
It’s sad what Israel is doing to one of the oldest populations of Christians in the world, the Palestinian Christians. Also, the way Christians are treated within the borders of Israel is appalling.
Are there Christian churches in gaza? Christians in Israel have citizenship, are free to worship, assemble, sit in parliament and have all the same rights. Can the same be said for Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc? In fact the only place in Israel Christians (or Jews) can't go are the temple mount, muslims won't allow it.
@@kevindoran9389 yes, there are Christian churches in Gaza. You should look up on TH-cam how some Israelis treat Christians. Spitting on nuns and stuff like that. It’s really sad to see. Btw why are you talking about Pakistan??? That country is really far from Gaza and has nothing to do with what I said.
@@kevindoran9389 Yes, there are Christian churches in Gaza. You should look at the TH-cam videos that show how Christians are treated in Israel. Nuns getting spit on, priests getting slapped. It’s sad, but Israel has become a religious extremist state.
Question, why were the Jews not persecuted during this time? I know there was a diaspora already by this point, but they also worshiped one god. Did they pay homage to the emperor somehow?
The persecutions were motivated by evil spiritual forces that hated Christ. They aren't going to influence their worldly followers to persecute groups already under their sway.
so crazy to think that just 1 century prior, the roman 'concern' had been that flagrant, comedienne-emperor from the east, elegabal--flash forward a hundred years, the 'issue' still comes from the east, 'cept this time in the form of (supposedly) self-flagellating, ascetic "christians" . . .
This is a strange comment, but your face is slowly starting to form my view of what romans looked like.
@@NKuijlaars He cultivates that look :-)
No, this is a strange comment: I like to drink milk and hold it in my mouth and pretend I'm a geyser at Yellowstone National Park and spit it up onto the ceiling, then stand under the ceiling-milk rain and pretend I'm on a planet with giant cows that make milk rain.
@adamk.7177 You win.
@@adamk.7177 Hmm. Spelling? Check. Grammar? Check. Ideas of life on other planets? Check.
I just switched to low-fat milk, so dreaming of milk-rain seems legit. But imagining that you're a geyser in Yellowstone? Yep, you got me, that is strange :-)
🤣
WOW , i never imagined such persecution was so close in time to Christianity becoming official religion , like there were people who were alive to see both ?
Oh yes. It was a collective cultural paradigm shift and it happened quite rapidly. The old order kicked and screamed all the way to its ultimate demise. There are modern parallels but I'll let you decide what those are.
@@barahng
The obvious one is secularism in the west replacing Christianity, the trouble is you can’t really replace something with nothing so the pendulum will either swing back to Christianity or everyone’s going to be Muslim in 100 years.
@@barahng I decided to edit this comment to what it is now ^^ the reasons and the significant original parts of it can be found within the pretty interesting discussion below 👇
@@postholer Christianity wasn't enforced until it became the official religion of the empire. So the previous persecutions had nothing to do with that (which you admitted and oversimplified latter in the comment, so I don't see the point of, and the connection with, the first comment).
@@juliankraus1011 "The old order kicked and screamed all the way to its ultimate demise" pretty much refers to the point where it did become the state religion ^^ at least that's how I understand it. And since modern parallels were suggested, I felt the urge to point out that the "paradigm change" in question didn't happen because of Christianity but because of the general monotheistic tendencies of that time (mid 3. to 4. century) that didn't happen quite rapidly...until Christianity "won" and became the state religion ^^ and then (and that was the other point I wanted to get across) we had a rapid shift from polytheism and +/- religious tolerance to a monotheistic system, which was the true paradigm shift, the religion being Christianity is only of secondary relevance (in my opinion). So...I felt inclined to comment because of the parallels to modern day politics pointed out at the end of the comment in question ^^
Thanks for answering!
As a Christian, it is always very good to see an area of Christian history covered by a reliable and credible secular communicator. Plus, it was all in good faith (pun intended)
This kid is killing it.
You guys learnt from the best
Same as a Roman pagan
Glory to the universal god of Humanity!
@@LeoJackson98 *American larper.
“History records the tragic fact that men have gone to war and cut each other’s throats because they couldn’t agree as to what was to become of them after their throats were cut.”
Walter P Stacy
Hey, the Middle Ages experienced a relative level of peace and many would argue capital punishment made Europe in that period more law abiding. War should be avoided, but if Catholicism is true, it's worth fighting for.
Come on, Rome's problem wasn't about what happened after death, they were simply afraid that christians would become a threat to their power.
@@franciscasilva8406 Duh. People in power love to use all possible arguments to gather support for their cause. But the real deal is to stay in a position of power.
Not really. It was mostly just an excuse to steal each others stuff.
@@franciscasilva8406 I have read that early Christianity was seen as a front for Judean royalist movements; hence more of a political than a spiritual threat...
"Christendom has had a series of revolutions and in each one of them Christianity has died. Christianity has died many times and risen again; for it had a God who knew the way out of the grave."
- Gilbert K. Chesterton
What a stupid comment.
Amen, as a Christian this perfectly encapsulates why Christianity has survived so many threats to it's existence throughout human history. The Islamic invasions, the Roman persecutions, the purges of secular regimes, it doesn't matter what it is.
Christendom is not real Christianity. Separate from the Kingdoms of the World, don't join into it.
Death cannot defeat us.
@LouisaWatt If you believe this garbage, the fear of death has defeated you.
The last time I was this early Constantine was kicking butt in Dacia.
Wow you know history and you’re so smart. 🍪
😂
@@0_1_2 That would work better in Latin like one of your previous comments :-)
In Dacia, or in a Dacia? Because that's two very different images 😂
Could you please talk about Roman sleep habits? Their beds, clothes, times, alarms, etc. thank you for all your hard work ❤❤
I get sleepy too sometimes
And is there evidence that they, as people did in times before artificial lighting did, have the first and second sleep?
Their alarm was a rooster 😂
sun go down = sleep
sun go up = wake up
@@mademoiselledusfonctionell1609I have tried implementing it in my own life and it just feels so alien and wrong I doubt the conclusion that the majority of people did this before the industrial age. I have relatives who lived in times before manmade electric lights were available en masse where they lived and none of them mentioned anything like it.
PAX DEORUM is a Latin phrase that translates to "peace of the gods".
It was a central goal of Roman state religion, representing a mutually beneficial state of peace between the Roman people and their deities.
In this state, the gods would protect the public welfare of Rome, while the Romans would provide the gods with the worship and cult they desired
Because they denied the existence of the Roman gods, Early Christians were often called atheists. Rome had a very wide pantheon incorporating almost every deity from every corner of the empire, not just the major Greco-Roman ones. For someone not just to say "My god is best/special/most powerful" but also "And your gods don't exist" was completely alien to the mind of antiquity. In the Mel Brooks comedy movie "History of the World Part I" the "stand-up philosopher" says "These Christians are so poor! (How poor are they?) They're so poor they only got one god! We Romans, the only we we don't have a god for is premature ejaculation!" Despite being a comedy movie and deliberately anachronistic, it's a pretty accurate picture of the Roman mindset.
@@Ganondorfdude11 THERE IS O N L Y one / 1 GOD = and HE is watching, ... 2 Chronicles 16: 8 - 9, etc
Hanani's Message to Asa
…8 Were not the Cushites and Libyans a vast army with many chariots and horsemen? Yet because you relied on the LORD, He delivered them into your hand.
9 For the eyes of the LORD roam to and fro over all the earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose hearts are fully devoted to Him. You have acted foolishly in this matter. From now on, therefore, you will be at war.”
10 Asa was angry with the seer and became so enraged over this matter that he put the man in prison. And at the same time Asa oppressed some of the people.…
------------------ P E O P L E -----------ARE STILL ANGRY, WITH ANYONE SEEKING / KNOWING / DOING THE '' THINGS PERTAINING THE TRUE GOSPEL ''. Like keeping those
10 commandments, especially number 4 '' remember , the Sabbth Day, to keep it Holy ''. Saturday, on our ancient roman pagan calendar, devised by men ; and flawed. God marks time, by the celestial bodies.....which Directly, Reflect on the moon cycles. READ Leviticus ch 23 and Exodus 20, for GODS' TRUE HOLY DAYS ! HE MADE ALL THAT THERE IS.,....any ' other gods'.....are ALL A BIG FAKE, FAT LIE OF / FROM SATAN THE DEVIL , which Still Rules. AND GOD RAINED DOWN FIRE AND BRIMSTONE,...AND SODOM AND GOMORAH WERE NO MORE ....''' FACTS OF ARCHAEOLOGY ! GO see the sulphur,...over there ! This modern ' system of babylon '''' started by none other , than....wait for it.....NIMROD....just after the Tower of Babel, in Babylon. Real, on the ground, FACTS.
Yeah... Augustine tells us how they worshipped their gods. People got sick of it, that's why Constantine happened. It's unnatural the things Rome did in peace.
@@BKNeifert Constantine happened due to his mother’s religious affiliation. Why do people come up with these idea, what do you guys read?😂
Christians were considered to be what we would call “absolute barbarians” nowadays - poorly educated, unruly, warlike, dressed in black, dirty, unshaven and foul smelling… they would be the religious Islam terrorists of nowadays.
Until Christianity took over high ranking females /women in the Roman Empire - Christianity was doomed.
The only reason Christianity became popular - it took away the bloody “sacrifices” which were greatly misused by the priests/clergy.
Animals were being raised just to be sacrificed - cats, chickens, roosters, goats, sheep, pigs, calves cows and bulls.
Now your history !!
Christianity by that time already existed beyond the borders of the Roman Empire, in Persia, in Armenia, in Arabia, in Aksum (roughly today's Ethiopia), in the south of India
I literally just commented on this
Parthians keeping Zoroastrianism strong
Dont forget Nubia which is modern day Sudan
By 303, there were plenty of Christians outside of Rome. I can name a few places Ethiopia, Armenia, and even India. The Sasanian empire was tolerant towards Christianity too.
Yeah, historically monotheistic places generally loved Jesus and Christianity
Ethiopian Orthodoxy and Assyrian/Armenian Churches of the East were already established
Persians, especially. they fully believed he was the return of their prophet, Zoroaster. King Cyrus is considered a messiah in the Bible. and the "Wise Men of the East" (Majus) gave Jesus gifts were of Zoroastrian Persian Faith.
people refuse to accept it; but there were many holy lands, positive to Christendom, across the known world, even in such an early period of christian history; had their own branch of monotheism
Indians supported it bc they already had Jains and Jews; Persian and Judeo-Christian theology are near-identical, Ethiopia has a deep relationship with God and Judaism.
Armenia and Assyria are the weird outliers, honestly. I can't think of any reason they'd be so pro-christian without outside influences (besides general anarchism outside their walls)
@@nxtvim2521 Assyrians were like the first peoples to follow the teachings of christ. They're not outliers they're just maintaining a long line of Christian faith that's very interwoven with their culture. Do you remember where Jesus came from? haha
Yes, and within the Roman empire they may have been too numerous and too much part of many non-Christian people's social networks in many localities around the Mediterranean to be stamped out quickly, even though they were still a small-ish part of the empire's total population. And the political climate could change in their favour with every new usurper who gained control of the throne.
We would have been so better off without Christianity …
Love the channel, awesome video as usual!
A great musical masterpiece which is about the persecutions under Diocletian is the oratorio "Theodora" by Handel the German-English composer. Especially moving was the production two decades ago in Glyndebourne, England by Peter Sellars which set the story in contemporary times. So moving was this production that ambulances were on hand by people overcome by this work and its tragic finale.
7:11 This is when the food in the arena took its first major hit. From defeated warriors and the occasional dead gladiator or equally well fed political traitor, it went down to scrawny malnourished Christians all at once. And it was only to go down from there.
Diocletian's concerns would seem strange to us by any measure. He became such an enthusiastic gardener after he retired, that he responded to a plea for him to un-retire thus. "If you could see the magnificence of these cabbages I've grown, you would never ask such of me."
My captions had auto translate to Latin on for some reason and I'm here for it
Persecution accelerated it's adoption, like any prohibition does. Lesson for politicians today.
Eusebius’ work “Martyrs of Palestine” describes the 10 years of this horrific event in his local area. I made an illustrated audio book of it on my channel.
I know the title is clickbait, and really is just talking about Rome, but I really wish it wasnt. In 301 Armenia adopted Christianity as its state religion. It wasn't going anywhere in 303AD.
It was also established pretty well in Ethiopia, too.
Without Rome’s continued patronage it might have died out, but not in 303AD
@Marcus280898 nope it wouldn't even after hundreds of years in Islamic world it stull remains...
great video !
There were also Christians in Persia, Ethiopia, Arabia and India. Diocletian destroyed many early Christian writings which are only available in ancient Ethiopia, Old Slavonic and Persian languages. The St. Thomas Christians preserved ancient documents, but the Portuguese destroyed them, thinking they were all heretical. This persecution was terrible, but there were already Christians outside the Roman Empire.
You mean catholics?
Great work.
Awesome video!
👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐EXCELLENT WORK I LOOK FORWARD TO NEW VIDEOS! THANK YOU!!!
I am heading to bed and this pops up, sleep is overrated 😁👍
Good video, but the notion of Julian attempting to create a "pagan church" hierarchy to rival Christianity is hamfisted and a bit out of date, not to mention less than precise when dealing with such a complicated topic. I would heartily recommend "Julian's Gods: Religion and Philosophy in the Thought and Action of Julian the Apostate" by Rowland B. E. Smith for a scholarly assessment of his theology and best speculation on his nuanced intentions. I would also recommend "Emperor and Author: The Writings of Julian 'the Apostate' " by Nicholas J. Baker-Brian for a good analysis of the writings left to us by Julian, to further add color to his thought. He really is so much more complex a character than a man trying to ape or rival Christianity in some way, and his theological disposition is worthy of many more studies.
@@Anonymous-wd6ik🤨
@@Anonymous-wd6ik pfffff wtf, that is so random 😂
@@Anonymous-wd6ik Specifically to re-centralize Jewish worship in Judea and undermine the Christian prophecies around the Third Temple. This is 200 years after the Bar Kokhba Revolt, your implication that anything done that tangentially serves their interests implies control over leaders or nations is quite literally insanity.
lets be honest, late paganism (which basically neoplatonism) is basically christianity anyways...
@@jackeyboy6538 The Amish are an insidious bunch. 😋
Awesome topic! Super interesting!
Could you make a video on religious practices done by Germanic auxilia? I've heard of Mercury-Hrabnus and Mars-Thingsus but it's so hard know were to find information on obscure deities
I don’t think you will find much more than conjecture. Mars Thingus could convincingly be Tyr/Tiw given his association with oaths and law and Thing being a law giving assembly in Germanic terms. Tyr/Tiw also being syncretised with Mars hence Tiw’s day being cognate with Mardi
@edhaworth8151 I mean in my mind it just seems so odd that given Germanic auxilia learned Latin and were literate at least to some degree but no diaries have been found that I know of aside from little Vindolanda note scraps, but I'm a modern person and wouldn't have the same internal dialogue to record.
Reconstructed names are easy enough with Wōdnaz being attested on the Vindelev (connected to Vindolanda with Proto-Germanic *Windōlandau/*Windōlaibō?) medallion but I'm grasping at straws, it's just sad so little detailed writings like the Bela Germanicae didn't get to us
You even look like a Roman! Thank you so much for these informative documentaries. Top-quality!!!!
I thought the same thing!😂
Thank you so much for this video
Good video.
Good channel period. No click baits or anything. Dude just talks about what he's got his PHD in.
Hey man I love your channel. I had a note for you regarding lighting in your talking head shot. You’re clearly using some nicer lights set to either side of the camera to light your face, but I’m assuming there’s also socket lighting in the ceiling of the room you’re filming in. There is a bulb directly over your head casting unflattering shadows on your face causing a subtle skull eyes/hitler stache effect. If turning off all the overhead socket lighting in the room makes the background look too dark I’d recommend just unscrewing the bulb directly over your head - at least when you film segments like this.
this man films or takes pictures
What a great channel...I love each and every vid.
Love the channel!
I have read somewhere that in the Edict of Milan Constantine took the credit for an earlier edict of toleration by his rival Maxentius. I would be interested to see a video with your views on this.
Donatists: “You’re not a real Christian if you don’t subject yourself to torture or martyrdom.”
Been there done that
@falconeshield you haven gone through martyrdom...
Acts 5:38-39 “So in the present case, I tell you, stay away from these men and leave them alone. For if this plan or this work is of human origin, it will fail; “but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even be found fighting against God.” They were persuaded by him.
It will be done
Side note: my level of respect immediately jumps through the roof when people don’t introduce themselves or their channels.
“Hey guys welcome back to my Chanel” is like homicidally enraging to me.
Within literally 7 seconds of this video I was sat like a school kid being learned on some things.
That’s how it should be.
A tip of the hat to Mr. Miller for his excellent graphics. Where do you find all those paintings and drawings?
Good to hear mention of the oppression of the Manicheans - a campaign of repression that preceded by a year the Christian persecution. Did the Edict of Toleration by Galerius, or the Edict of Milan suspend persecution of the Manicheans? Or was oppression continued, on into the reign of Theodosius? Or, were the Manicheans given breathing space between the Edict of Milan and when Theodosius considerably escalated oppression around AD 382?
A Toldinstone crossover with Liz Taylor??? Awesome!
Google Translate says that "Pax De Orum" (note the extra space) means "peace on Earth", while just "orum" means "ear".
It's spelled "Pax Deorum", which means "peace of the gods".
@@greyfells2829 that's what I learned when Googling "Pax De Orum".
Remember Christians resilience is not new for us
Christianity is notorious for growing under persecution.. since at its heart is martyrdom of God Himself.
True enough. Though curious since Christ never claimed to be anything but God’s son
@@SD-wg3xo Jesus accepted worship of him. There could not be a more clear indication of his deity.
@@SD-wg3xo he claimed to be the first and the last...... what would the first be??? what would the last be?? Ill let your comment sense tell you
@@SD-wg3xo He never claimed to be The UnBegotten Father.. but He says “You see Me you see The Father”. He said “I and My Father are One”. He said “Believe In Me As You believe In The Father”. He said “I came from Heaven”.
YHVH surely has an eternally plurality.. demonstrated in Zechariah 2:8-11.. YHVh of Hosts says “YHvH Sent Me”…. (That is Jesus) …. Since the SHEMA says YHVH is ONE GOD…. There cannot be 2 YHVHs.. since Jesus identified as The One Who Came From YHVH.. there is no other conclusion.. He is YHVH. Consider John 1 “The LOGOS is both GOD and With GOD”. You are a living being.. You are your Word… and your Word is with you. Both can be true.
Finally if you look at Revelation 21:7 Jesus says “I will be their GOD”.
There is no denying Who Jesus claimed to be.
Tertullian's Scorpiace intensifies
Yes, time for more Told in Stone!
I love told in stone, i usualy watch it stoned and nerd out to the closes person to me (my dog lol) but i struggle to find other chanels that are as captivating as well as scholarly, i dont nessesarily want the matterial to be delivered compellingly but the material itself to be compelling, is there any other channel anyone can reccomed that is similarly educational and scholarly as is told in stone? Please let me know😁 ( sorry if i have some bad grammar)
Same! The combination of weed and his choice of visuals really lets you imagine yourself there
Historia Civilis, and Thersites the Historian
@@adizmal I'll check those out. For Gael, Military history channels such as History Marche, Historiograph and Baz Battles are a little less academic, History for GRANITE is focused on the Pyramids, History with Kayleigh and Stephan Milo are quite academic but more into archeology and paleontology. Have fun :-)
History Guy is always good.
@ THANK YOU!!
8:30 to say that the persecution started the Donatist schism is a stretch. The tensions that eventually led to the schism (rigorist vs laxist) we’re already a serious issue by the time of cyprian. It’s more accurate to say that Constantine’s policy triggered the schism rather than the great persecution
Excellent video as always. I'm actually studying the New Testament for the first time, and so this is a coincidental blessing. Thank you for your work, Garrett.
Interesting content thanks. Just one thing, your pronunciation of worship sounds like warship.
The comments could stand to learn from your consistent professionalism and decorum professor Ryan. Also, we have the same first name. Never see that much, even online!
Can we have a movie about this?
There’s an issue with the audio. Each line is cut off in the beginning, just a syllable or two, but it often obscures the meaning.
Watching this after leaving my first-ever underground Pagan meeting in Arabia. Interesting 🤨
Do you guys actually have any a well preserved and documented religion or are you larpers like the “Norse” who hang around in circles and sing kumbaya because they don’t even know anything about Norse paganism because it was basically completely destroyed.
@@blackkennedy3966 What an unnecessary and nasty comment. If you don't care for others to judge or mock you, then I would advise not doing it to others.
@ it’s legitimate curiosity because I assumed Islam with the whole thing about one god and no idols would’ve stamped down hard on it considering isis is blowing up statues of a dead culture just because it’s an “idol” and in the past the caliphates tried to destroy the pyramids for the same reason but it cost too much money and manpower. People are easier to destroy if you catch my meaning. Same thing happens with Norse all the holy sites destroyed converted into churches trees cut down all religious rites and rituals lost all we have is the list of gods and a bunch of dweebs pretend to follow the old religion not even knowing anything about it. The most well preserved would be the greco-roman Hellenic paganism.
@@blackkennedy3966 do you hear yourself? Everything was destroyed ON PURPOSE so that edgelords like you could lord it over future non-xtians that they don’t really know what their ancestors did. It’s despicable behavior you are exhibiting. Monotheistic beliefs aren’t better, but its adherents are definitely more destructive. When people want to reconnect with what has been lost by exploring what we still have, it has absolutely no effect on you whatsoever. People are curious about the past and their roots. People are tired of the abrahamic nonsense. You honestly sound like you need to get some tx
@@khalidalali186 keep the old traditions alive and don’t listen to the haters. They are small and jealous people and they always have been.
What is that opening music? Sounds familiar and beautiful
Christianity was far from almost vanishing even in the hour of its greatest persecution. With the example of its own founder who himself went through a prolonged execution and was then said to have risen again, Christians had an enormous reservoir of inner strength and resolve to draw from. As Tertullian had written almost a century before: "the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church."
I don't know about the reasons, but you're absolutely right that the persecution didn't come close to stamping out Christianity. It's hard to say if it even realyl slowed its growth noticeably.
I've never heard of Jesus being referred to as the 'founder' of Christianity. He wasn't worshipped in his life.
I had always imagined it as developing over the first century AD.
Thanks for the perspective!
@@guydreamr, thank you, as well!
@@akimmel6941 In fact, the New Testament contains numerous verses where Jesus was worshipped by various people. Matthew 8:2 refers to a healed leper who worshipped Jesus. Matthew 9:18 states that a ruler knelt before Jesus after he had healed his son. There are a number of other verses as well.
Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that they thought Jesus was divine, this could have been indicative of a reverential attitude to someone they thought was a great prophet or miracle worker. But that people revered Jesus during his lifetime is clearly asserted in numerous passages throughout the New Testament.
As far as Jesus being the founder of Christianity goes, Matthew 16:18 states that Jesus, addressing Peter, one of his disciples, says: "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it," so the claim of Jesus as founding the Christian faith is made by the Gospels as well.
@@akimmel6941 That's an incredibly short amount of time for a religion to form though because He is also estimated to have conducted His ministry in the first century AD, and all of his disciples believed He was genuinely God, and they recorded that people called Him Lord. And they were all willing to die brutal deaths for their beliefs. Keep in mind, those people claimed to see Him rise from the dead and claimed to see Him perform miracles. Really makes you wonder. At the very least you must concede that the circumstances of Christianity's rise as a faith are the most extraordinary out of all known religions.
Armenia was the first in 301ad. Many people don’t like to mention it for some reason
Being Christian back then must've been strange to others who kept their pagan religion. They were borderline nietzchean in their focus on spirituality without classical tradition/practice and saw them as a much more modern version of Judaism.
Also, keep in mind that Rome had a very strong military culture, seeing Christ's servant theology be a huge clash to Rome's master/military beliefs.
christianity is to rome what lgbt is to the west
Christians were even more troublesome for rulers of old tradition, due to their organized but isolated strong-knit communities; a hierarchy that recognizes some distant religious figure (not the current emperor and his dynasty) as supreme authority; and their un-conformity, or even downright hostility, toward established beliefs and traditions. Worse, they have a nasty habit of converting well-adjust civilians into their cult.
I wonder if the pagan Roman Emperors (as well as the Japanese Shogun, Chinese and Vietnamese Emperors) view Christianity like the West view communist during the Cold War.
Interestingly, there evidence that Christianity spread through the Roman Legion quickly and early. Similar outside religions/gods had done the same like Mithraism. A few scholars argue that by the time Constantine had his vision huge sections of his army were already Christian and some suggest even the majority of his forces were. It would make sense since the common ranks were filled with the lower classes. Also, the oldest known inscription related to Jesus is a piece of graffiti a thought to be made by a Roman soldier making fun of a fellow soldier’s Christian belief (it’s a body of a man crucified with a donkey’s head). Some very significant early Saints were also Roman soldiers George, Demetrios, Maurice, Eustace, Forty Martyrs of Sebaste, etc. and then there is the Centurion in the Gospels who Christ indicated had more faith than anyone in Israel.
@@eotikuracthere’s literally no parallel there whatsoever.
@@eotikurac are you implying the transformers are a religion (they are)
I don’t think I’ve ever heard his full name until now…
Suddenly I’m wondering if all the other Roman names I thought I knew were just as absurdly awesomely long.
They normally had 3, given name, family name and nickname. Take the example of Gaius Julius Caesar.
Given name: Gaius
Family name: Julius
Nickname: Caesar
Anything beyond three were normally titles
Genuinely shocked at this community
Why? What happened?
@@AlbertaGeek Scroll down in the comments
@@kobblestonemc Oh, okay, I see: OP is shocked at the number of people who think the world would have been better off without Christianity. Well, I am similarly shocked - that number should be higher.
@@AlbertaGeekcanadian detected opinion rejected
@@AlbertaGeekCome back and tell us what you think when your body hair comes in.
The history of the Coptic Church is amazing
And they have never lost of the martyr complex since.
What?
jew
Communism 👎 Godless government
Marxism 🤢 Rebellion against God's authority
Wokism 🤮 Ideological immorality
~untold atrocities
God bless America 🇺🇲✝️
This is an excellent short documentary. It would be great if you would do a longer documentary on the Church of the East and when it got started. There are not too many reliable sources for such a documentary, but it would be most interesting. It's amazing that the Caesars in Rome persecuted Christianity and yet that's where the Popes began to proclaim the greatest church in Christendom, the Catholic Church; and also it was Pope Pius XII and the Catholic Adolf Hitler that caused the dearth of six million Jews in Germany's concentration camps.
fantastic
@toldinstone is there any archeology that identifies that church in Nicomedia that was across from the palace?
Love the content, and I have read your books :-) but could you in the next video move the light you got over you head down, so you dont look like the walking death ;-D
Roasted lol
The "acts of Pilate" that Maximinus ordered distributed: are those the same "Acts of Pilate" that make up the first half of the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus?
Not Christian, Im native American and I follow my traditional religion, but I respect Christians alot cuz they're mostly nice. Shame we have so much bad blood between us because of some shitty men in power and the way of thinking of the time.
Though it's always fun to see how much our religions overlap. Like single creator deity who is about love and teaching our children to do good things and be moral. Thought we don't need stuff like hell or sins or stuff like that to get the same points across. Found that unfortunate cuz it seems a lot of ppl get misery from their religion when it involves those sort of aspects.
Agree! If you’re curious about the overlap between Native American and Christian beliefs, check out the work of Chief Joseph RiverWind. He wrote a book called “that’s what the old ones say”.
Also technically the bible teaches a “second death” (destruction/ annihilation) rather than eternal torment. The medieval Dante version of hell was invented by the Manichaeans and brought into Christianity by Augustine of Hippo.
Everything I know about late antiquity comes from your channel.
We are still amazed, inspired, and emboldened by the martyrs and confessors today (the confessors are those who suffered greatly but didn't actually die as a result of the persecutions). Because they are also saints in heaven, we pray for their intercession as well. It's good to have friends in high places!
This is the stealth best account on TH-cam.
Church buildings, especially a great church in Nicomedia before 313? Truth or Legend?
Certainly true, to judge from our sources. But it's hard to say how monumental pre-Constantinian churches were.
@toldinstone where are the remains of these churches? A religio illicita could hardly have
Own buildings.
@@RPe-jk6dv, the Megiddo Church in Israel is one prominent example. It's dated from around AD 230 and was abandoned around AD 305, right around the Diocletian persecution, as evident in the plastering of its now famous mosaic floor, the oldest archeological artifact that declares Jesus as "God". Also, what is now called the Church of St. Pudentiana in Rome was the seat of the Bishops of Rome in the Pre-Constantinian period prior to the donation of the Lateran Palace by Constantine where St. John Lateran now stands. Though the actual building isn't Pre-Constantinian, the site is. A church was erected during the time of Pope Pius I (AD 140-155) over a 2nd-century house, reusing part of a Roman bath facility which is still visible in the structure of the current apse. During the pontificate of Siricus in the 4th century, the site was transformed into a basilica and the renovated building which stands now follows that basilican format. This makes St. Pudentiana one of the, if not, the oldest continuously-used site of Christian worship in the world with a direct succession of buildings and renovations.
A modern day prison in Israel found an ancient Church underneath it and has been excavating it for over a decade now. Iirc it was from the 200's.
@@georgerafa5041 Grimly appropriate that it should be covered up by an isn'treali prison
Did Diocletian issue similar persecutions for jews, who are also monotheistic?
Era of the Martyrs
Fascinating - thanks... ☝️😎
Feels like Reddit in this comment section
I think you'll find there are a lot of more that disagree with Christianity off reddit too
@@watermelon2223 But the form in which they express it is unfortunately identical.
@@watermelon2223Tips fedora*
@@domca4617I guess it depends on your viewpoint. In what way are their expressions identical?
Ya the degenerate nihilists are everywhere these days. Sad. But still nowhere near as bad as it was for our brothers and sisters during the periods from this video.
"Thy Martyrs, O Lord, in their courageous contest for Thee received as the prize the crowns of incorruption and life from Thee, our immortal God. For since they possessed Thy strength, they cast down the tyrants and wholly destroyed the demons' strengthless presumption. O Christ God, by their prayers, save our souls, since Thou art merciful."
The gates of hell will never prevail against it.
@@PomazeBog1389 Hi Pomaže. I did enjoy your Achilles joke on the other video. I don't have much grasp of Slavic languages, does your username mean "Helping God"? Cheers
"God helps" and your reply should be "God help you." Something along those lines.
Amen brother
Doesnt sound like they need to, considering how much of a grotesque parody Christianity has become in the US.
The danger, as with many enterprises, comes from within. “Is the pope a Catholic?” Once a rhetorical joke, it’s become a real one, just like Frankie.
Christianity really got a lucky strike after those series of persecution. On the other hand bad luck seem had befallen upon Manichaeism such that the once rival to Christianity was virtually forgotten.
I’m an atheist. Christianity was required to get us where we are today.
You're either lying or severely misinformed. Or do you like the idea that the USA will soon be the first democracy that will revert to a theocracy?
@XarXXon I misspoke. I meant to the 20th century. Not literally today. Now it's obsolete.
@@0ut0fafricaa Still incorrect. Here are some examples of how christianity slowed social and scientific progress:
Outlawing heliocentrism for over a century, outlawing and destroying rare scientific texts, pushing for creationism in schools, outlawing gay marriage, banning gays from adopting, "deconversion therapy",...
Christianity has been a pox on humanity since Constantine and remains so to this day.
@@0ut0fafricaa
Then you're still wrong, here are some examples of how christianity slowed social and scientific progress:
Outlawing the heliocentric model for over a century, banning and destroying rare scientific works from non-christians, banning LGBTQ marriage, stopping LGBTQ people from adopting, "conversion therapy".
Christianity has been a pox on humanity since Constantine and remains so to this day.
@@XarXXon If that's stuff is social progress, then thank God us Christians put up such resistance to it, historically. Just look at the fruits of the Sexual Revolution today. Civilizations collapse when they embrace sexual freedom. And look what science has brought us. We are living in a technocratic and scientific dictatorship under constant surveillance and future that looks like we'll be ruled by psychopaths and AI.
I heard someone saying that you partially look like a typical ancient Roman from one of the statues. Are you descended from a Roman patrician by any chance?
1:15 "Jesus Christ look at that rack"!! (to the right of the painting)
What rack?
It's not that glorious
You okay man?
Its absolutely GLORIOUS IF IT DEPICTS THE GREATEST. Your lifestyle and morals is nothing compared to Christ. .@cellyzs
She even has her ankles out. Golly !
Christianity is just a bunch of previous religions and myths morphed into one dogma.
Christianity has almost disappeared today in all its original lands.
In Greece, still many Christians live.
What is really tragic and heartbreaking is how the persecution of Chriatians under even the most evil Roman Emperors like Nero, etc only lasted a few years, unlike the persecution under Muhammad that has lasted for fourteen centuries.
@@danrhinehart1134With most of the nations of Christendom welcoming the invaders with open arms today. It’s disgusting.
@danrhinehart1134 there was no persecution of Christians under Muhammad. Jihad Islam is a rather modern thing. For the first ten centuries Arab conquerors didn't mind practicing other religions, but the Islam worshipers were getting better treatment and less taxes. In other words, Arabs didn't conquer the lands to spread the religion, but to gain power and resources.
😂😂😂 yo're so funny@@sypialnia_studio
Thanks 🙏🏻
Can you imagine a time when being Christian was considered anti-social, then another period of history where being not Christian was considered anti-social 🤣
In 2024 I consider Christians to be a force for the awful.
All over fairy stories.
Yes, I can. We are in such a time. Hopefully the second never returns.
@nsbd90now The thing is, there's so many flavors different theological takes of christianity, especially after the reformation. So you need to be. It's specific. Prior to the reformation, not counting short lived heretical movements There's about maybe four or five different churches. All of them still exist today, by the way. Are those the ones who have problems with? Or is it gonna be one of the countless flavors of the post reformation world? And post great awakenings in the US movements that we see?
@@MrJMB122 That's the whole point. Jews, Christians, Muslims... all countless flavors, as you have put it. No truth. No agreement over centuries. And now, in 2024 they are only a negative destructive force on the entire planet. Decent people leave those legacies and reject them.
Christianity wouldn't have vanished if Diocletian were successful. There were Christians in India and the Persian Empire by this time.
Glory to God
Title is somewhat misleading as the video focuses on Europe/Roman empire when Christianity was far more extant than that. For instance it thrived all over West Asia and beyond, including what is now modern day Sudan and Eritrea/Ethiopia regions of Eastern Africa where it became the state religion of variosu kingdoms as early as the 4th century
2:18 All this was also true for the Jews, who were not persecuted. So there must have been other reasons.
The jews never promoted their religion as a religion for the masses.
@@Mfields4517 true
The Jews had already caused trouble for the Romans before and were given exemptions, and early Christians fell under that umbrella too, but Christians were trying to distance themselves from Judaism and also were actively trying to convert Roman citizens to their religion and were spreading across the empire, while the Jews were perfectly happy to more or less mind their own business and keep Judaism Jewish. Christians were making problems for themselves and were actively ‘harming’ Rome by reducing the number of worshippers and sacrifices for the Roman gods.
@@Mfields4517you don’t know what you’re talking about, Judaism was actually something of a fad in Rome prior to the rise of Christianity, which is part of the reason why Christianity was able to spread so far so fast.
@@BobbyHill26you’re also wrong. All of the early Christians were Jewish, called Nazarenes. And Jesus wasn’t the only messiah claimant of the late second temple period. Not by a long shot. Do you all not know about Simon Bar Kokhba or anything like that?
If only they were successful we would have a better world
I am interested if you think Christianity might've helped preserve the empire past its "due date." In my opinion Christianity's emphasis on unity amongst its followers on matters of doctrine and practice was more useful for the state of Rome rather than the more fragmented cults of the traditional Roman faith. How unified was the pagan Roman faith? How significant were the differences of doctrine and theology in their day and was it like what we see in current religions?
Now that is a fun topic I would also love to hear more about!
Generally speaking Rome wanted you to sacrifice to the state's most important patron god, Jupiter, as well as the cult of the ascendant Augustus, at least early on.
Julian was far smarter about it. He had the larger goal of eradication but he isded his decrees in ways that seemed haphazerd and only obvious in hindsight so there was no onvious strategy to counter him. He went out of his way to NOT martyr anyone. He attacked Christianity on theological grounds (his weakest strategy according to both Christian apologists and his own reflections later). He kept bishops in his inner circle which undercut clsims of intolerance. He actively promoted Judaism to give a non problematic (they'd do sacrafices and pray for the Empire so long as they didn't have to do it in the name of the Olympians) option for Christians to go without outright abandoning their beliefs. His masterstroke, which he only made after critically weakening Christianity, was requiring the Classics to be tought by those who lived by those teachings, this was a secular position at face value but made it so Christians were cut out of the education process while Hellenic teaching were favored.
If he'd lived or been replaced by someone that shated his religious opinions, Christianity would have been reduced to a small following in Palestine and communities outside the Empire like Ethiopia and Arabia. It'd have otherwise been eradicated, much as the Muslims did to Zoroastrianism.
It’s sad what Israel is doing to one of the oldest populations of Christians in the world, the Palestinian Christians. Also, the way Christians are treated within the borders of Israel is appalling.
Are there Christian churches in gaza?
Christians in Israel have citizenship, are free to worship, assemble, sit in parliament and have all the same rights. Can the same be said for Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc?
In fact the only place in Israel Christians (or Jews) can't go are the temple mount, muslims won't allow it.
@@kevindoran9389 yes, there are Christian churches in Gaza. You should look up on TH-cam how some Israelis treat Christians. Spitting on nuns and stuff like that. It’s really sad to see.
Btw why are you talking about Pakistan??? That country is really far from Gaza and has nothing to do with what I said.
@@kevindoran9389 Yes, there are Christian churches in Gaza. You should look at the TH-cam videos that show how Christians are treated in Israel. Nuns getting spit on, priests getting slapped. It’s sad, but Israel has become a religious extremist state.
@@kevindoran9389 Yes, there are Christian churches in gaza. And no, Christians don’t have it so great in Israel. Look it up
@@kevindoran9389 Yes, there are Christian churches in Gaza
i like to think that there's a world where diocletian completed his reforms in rome and banished the galilleans from the empire
Another good video. More of them inre Rome's republican era is always enjoyed
Question, why were the Jews not persecuted during this time? I know there was a diaspora already by this point, but they also worshiped one god. Did they pay homage to the emperor somehow?
The persecutions were motivated by evil spiritual forces that hated Christ. They aren't going to influence their worldly followers to persecute groups already under their sway.
No romans would change their religion to judaism but they would change to christianity. Comment before is a example why christianity was worse.
You can’t win Diocletian, if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
so crazy to think that just 1 century prior, the roman 'concern' had been that flagrant, comedienne-emperor from the east, elegabal--flash forward a hundred years, the 'issue' still comes from the east, 'cept this time in the form of (supposedly) self-flagellating, ascetic "christians" . . .
The Edict of Milan and the subsequent conversion of Rome to Christianity should be told in this context
I'd be very curious what an alternate timeline would have looked like for Europe without Christianity.
Blessed martyrs, pray for us.