The Problems With White Feminism
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Author Kyla Schuller breaks down the problems with white feminism in her book, The Trouble with White Women: A Counterhistory of Feminism. In it she add context to the legacy of women's rights heroes like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and how they purposefully excluded feminists of color from their legacy.
We stream our live show every day at 12 PM ET.
We need your help to keep providing free videos! Support the Majority Report's video content by going to / majorityreport
Watch the Majority Report live M-F at 12 p.m. EST at / samseder or listen via daily podcast at Majority.FM
Download our FREE app: majorityapp.com
SUPPORT the show by becoming a member: jointhemajority...
We Have Merch!!! shop.majorityre...
LIKE us on Facebook: / majorityreport
FOLLOW us on Twitter: / majorityfm
SUBSCRIBE to us on TH-cam: / samseder
Image Credit,
commons.wikime...
creativecommon...
Image has been cropped and color has been altered.
Image Credit,
snl.no/Elizabe...
creativecommon...
Image has been cropped and color has been altered.
Emma: You write about how white feminism works alongside or works with racism capitalism and empire. And the empire thing struck me because another contemporary example, George W Bush, came out after Biden withdrew from Afghanistan and was saying well what about the women? What about the women in Afghanistan? and that is another I think a great manifestation of this dynamic or not great but a great example of the dynamic that you're describing.
Schuller: Absolutely and especially when it comes to women in the middle east that have been a major threat actually for 130-40 years that it is the goal of white women to help save women from supposedly less civilized societies. The theorist of Gayatri Spivak put it really well in the 1980s. She said it's the rhetoric of white women trying to save brown women from brown men. and it ends up actually just reinforcing the idea that the US is a beacon of progress and white civilization. and that you can use feminism as not just a cover for imperialism but an explicit rationale for imperialism.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 82 วันนี้!! คู่เอก | ยอดไอคิว vs อับดัลลาห์](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hSsyTl_9bqs/mqdefault.jpg)
Feminism is a white woman's game.
--George Carlin
I agree and that’s why I would never be a feminist 😂😂😂
Please start clipping the full-interviews seperate from the rest of the show! I know I am not the only one who'd enjoy this (esp for sharability).
The video description could contain a link to the episode with the full interview, complete with time stamp reference to take you straight to it, but it never has. It doesn't even tell you which episode to look in.
I had a teacher that talked about this, but in as much details when I was in high school. She didn't have a good opinion of Susan B Anthony.
Jay Leno's wife jump on the *_"Save the Afghan Women"_* bandwagon many years ago.
I’m sure the comment section will be mature and fair. 🤞
For some people, the TH-cam comments sections of circa 2015 was the peak of their life.
Said no body ever
Don't you think it odd for two White women having this discussion on this channel? No Black, brown, er cetera women on staff to weigh in on this?
As for your question, I think it's good for white women to engage in self-criticism and identify potential pitfalls and past mistakes so as to remain vigilant and alert.
That being said, you're definitely onto something with your second point. A panel with non white women as well would be far more productive and informative
Actually, they're both Jewish and both hate white people. That's their entire grift
Excellent interview
Everyone should be paying attention to this discussion!
This applies to Nomiki, who still has tweets up from 2011 about her working with white feminist NGOs to push for regime change in Libya. Even though she's more of an intersectional feminist when it comes to domestic issues, she has a massive empire shaped blindspot that turns her into a white feminist whenever foreign policy is brought up
Well, at least she didn't try to bury the tweets.
That's valid critism
@@MasterAdam100 True, unfortunately she still doesn't have many regrets either. But yes, glad she's not sweeping it under the rug and pretending it never happened
Such feminists are like the missionaries who want to spread the word of God to "uncivilized" tribes in the jungle and inform them of "problems" they didnt know they had.
Color me shocked that people of the day who shared the (arguably) majority opinion on race used said opinion to help further progress for themselves and others. The left of that day fractured due to vested interests on numerous hot button issues and we see that continued to now. The right tends to band together when weathering disagreement and consensus change, whereas the left often will in-fight. This sadly causes the right’s unified front to engender a populist movement for the people rather than what they *actually* are.
@@seanhovan7426 You can't just say "collectivism" and "individual rights" are the two things separating the left and right, because neither side are those two.
You're practically saying that lefties are authoritarian while righties are pro-freedom. Reality doesn't bend to your will that way.
@@seanhovan7426 Are people free when they are sick? Are people free when they are dead? Are people free when they are starving? Are people free when they can lose their life savings to medical debt? Are people free when they can get their things repossessed by civil asset forfeiture? Are people free to understand their bodies enough to prevent pregnancy (abstinence only education undermines this)? Are people in low paying jobs able to not be imprisoned without a trial (see the cash bail system)?
Yea.. many liberals support this bullshit, but this is mostly a conservative thing, but the leftists and progressives on the other hand want these kinds of freedom.
@@seanhovan7426 I looked at articles and noticed that the system accidentally did not notice that he was on notice for a violent crime of vehicular assault. Bail reform concerns are for non violent crimes which flood our criminal justice system. In any case, do you support taking away many people's freedom through mass incarceration?
Republicans are universally squares, and nobody wants to party with squares.
Bad bunny(twitch streamer) gives off white feminist vibes
Very much! Her cult doesn't like it when you call her on her bullshit, either.
Nah, she's just a grifter, just on the left, and is really bad at being convincing to anyone who isn't a massive simp
@@PancakemonsterFO4 most people on the left are grifters so nothing new there
@@jingoist-sj8gj most? Are you counting tankies as leftists or what?
Thank you.
i learned something about Susan B. Anthony ... too bad
Very few heroes survive scrutiny.
@@zotaninoron3548 I know a lot about Susan B Anthony. And I say it’s all good. These people have one part of the whole picture of her and Stanton. Especially the times they lived in. Part of the flax against feminism is the hatred of women. It isn’t anything but. The people of today thinks it’s easier to go against feminism. (It was then also). White women have had racial behavior toward black women. Same with BLM, I’m sure black men have had sexist behavior towards other black women. But you don’t throw out the whole outfit. You work within it. Susan B and Stanton got me my right to vote.
As far as big movements are concern the people of today should check out Gandhi’s treatment of women, while he was fighting the cast system. His views and practices were terrible. He was also racist himself. Big and good human rights movements have non perfect people. But the movement has to go on.
@@sampsonlittle7368 While taking away the same right from not just black men, who were actually the first men in this country to champion the right of all women to vote, but black women as well. So, see, you understand white feminism better than you thought you did.
What about the Women that we are starving in Afghanistan & Yemen
every time some right winger brought up afghan women i told them the afghan women have to fight for their rights themselves. a bunch of american women going there and trying to change anything will have no effect on anything and would likely get them imprisoned and/or killed.
as for the feminists of the 19th century, they were of their times and racism was not confined to the south . it was nationwide as it is now. we can lament the past and the present, but the work is for the future. we shouldn't be patient; we should be proactive. privilege should apply to no one for any reason.
Any time anyone brings up Afghan women, I tell them that over 70% of the Afghan population lives in farming villages, not the cities the media bombarded us with the last 20 years. And, a majority of THOSE women support the Taliban. As the Taliban is made up of their sons and husbands that were fighting to overthrow the even worse warlords that came before them. The same warlords the US freed and then employed in attempt to eradicate Taliban. Westerners need to get out of thinking they know a fucking thing about what the desires are of those in Afghanistan.
I find the abuses of women and children in Afghanistan absolutely horrifying, especially things like bombing girls' schools and killing those innocent girls. When people ask me how I could support our withdrawal from Afghanistan, I tell them 20 years of an American presence there didn't materially alter how Afghani females are going to be treated now, and I doubt that 20 more years of America there would have made much of a difference. Things are changing, although slowly, for some middle eastern women, like in Saudi Arabia. I think women's rights being advanced in other muslim countries have the most likelihood of helping to eventually change the circumstances of Afghani women.
@@cjohnson3836 reminds me of the joke: how many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb? just one but the lightbulb has to want to change.
when people want changes they will make them themselves. interfering has never actually helped anyone.
Revolutionary leftist feminist orgs in Afghanistan have pointed out that the occupation only hinders gender equality in Afghanistan. There are absolutely women in Afghanistan who are ready to take up the fight for their rights. They just needed us to get out of their way
@@sirius1696 pecisely. we need to stay out of it other than support for all women.
Chappelle touched upon this in his last special, "The Closer". It's a shame that got overshadowed by the controversy regarding his take on trans issues.
*the problem with white feminism* video of 2 white women talking about white feminists
We have reached the nexus phase, where white women have finally had enough of white women.
Loved this
I remember a prominent white Canadian feminist talking about a time when a group of black women she worked with in the movement told her to f off because she was calling all the shots.
Sounds like your typical bw behavior yep lmao
Great interview 👍🏾!
White Feminist! ✊🏻
Great job, ladys. My wife is white. I love her and have shared the truth.
Sojourner Truth grew up speaking dutch.
I had no idea that she spoke and knew Dutch.
LOL
These women are both white
@@user-M45kn9 Ashkenazi are white for the most part. They're "whiter" than Greeks, Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese etc.
And their economic success compared to Black people is evidence of their whiteness.
I think it's good for white women to identify and critique white feminism so they can be vigilant against it. This is exactly what I want white women to be doing
Your powers of observation are strong.
Does your brain just shut down when it sees people who are capable of self-criticism and self-reflection?
Fair point, Jews are not in the white category due to many years of persecution, despite appearances, that was a mistake. All the same, I can’t help but feel that raising the fact that the interests of people of colour are not typically served by white feminism loses impact when they don’t include a wider range of voices e.g. women with lived experience of being consistently perceived as being non-white, which to be fair a Jewish woman may or may not experience. It’s like when two men discuss the problems of marginalising female voices but fail to invite women to the discussion. If it’s an issue worth discussing I think people should try including the people most affected by that issue- it’s more interesting that way in my opinion, and leads to a more authentic conversation.
what you couldn't get robin diangelo?
THIS is why I'm not a feminist
It is in group/out group bias which often causes trouble not women who are white who identify as being feminist. Some women who identify as feminist possess an in group/out group bias however that is true for some women and men from other backgrounds too. People pleasing by going along with an group/out group bias is not healthy.
^facts
Even if we take a charitable interpretation that they mean "feminism which advances the interests of white women", they are tripping over themselves to frame it in a counterproductive idpol way. Which has been the left's MO for roughly the past decade.
@Frances Bernard, please read Hazel Carby before it's toooooo late!!!!!! Or just keep doing/saying what you're doing/saying and there will never be a "sisterhood" with WOC.
Francis Harper, Surjourne Truth. Fredrick Douglous original Intersectional Feminists
"Super Preditors " Hillary Clintonn
This show only has white women hosts…
It has one full time woman hosting who happens to be white.
@@jordanpeterson7179 and a white man and then white guest hosts. Naomi or something, Francisco, etc
Honest question: do you really think women’s rights in Afghanistan generally were not better under the American occupation than they were before back in the ‘90s or than they have been since we left? You can be snarky and culturally-relativist and say, “supposedly less-civilized societies,” but when it comes to the Taliban, let’s just say it: yeah, when it comes to women, they’re objectively less-civilized and worse!
Now, does that mean that the entire war and everything that went on was totally justified, that we were doing it all for the women, and that we should listen do Dubya again and stay in Afghanistan forever? That’s another conversation. But to pretend that there’s no difference between the American-backed admittedly-wildly-corrupt Afghan democracy/kleptocracy that still featured women’s education and gave women the right to vote and allowed women to work and take some role in the public sphere vs. the Taliban and everything they get up to…I don’t feel like you guys are honestly engaging with the issue.
All that being said, I agree there are and have been problems with what you call “white feminism.” Still, you need to acknowledge the tradeoffs and complexities of the issue.
I think women's rights were better in 70s before Operation Cyclone. Also there are revolutionary leftist feminist orgs in Afghanistan. Their position was that the US occupation ultimately hindered and set back the fight for women's rights. Not much room for any kind of social progress with the Taliban on one side and imperial occupation on the other.
@@sirius1696 Of course women’s rights in Afghanistan were better in the 70s. That’s why I specifically mentioned the 90s as the alternative. 1970s Afghanistan isn’t on the table these days. America/NATO couldn’t achieve it and the Taliban of course has no desire to. You can’t make the unattainable idyllic past the enemy of the lesser of two evils that are really the only possible outcomes for the foreseeable future and then throw up your hands and say, “Taliban, deeply-flawed-democracy-with-some-guaranteed-women’s-rights, what’s the difference? Let’s just cede it all back to the Taliban.” I mean, it may well have been that getting out was the right thing to do, all things considered, because women’s rights wasn’t the only issue, but to pretend that any gains made in the past 20 years on the women’s rights front were all solely a white American woman’s fantasy and not actual on-the-ground changes for Afghan women is disingenuous. It is, however, very convenient if your only foreign policy position is “American intervention always 100% bad” to pretend that there were absolutely zero gains in any area in Afghanistan over the past 20 years.
Also, I looked up revolutionary leftist feminist organizations in Afghanistan, which to be fair I was unaware of, and what I found was the Revolutionary Association of Women in Afghanistan (RAWA.) But it’s a bit of a misnomer to say that they’re in Afghanistan, though; according to Wikipedia, they’ve been headquartered in Pakistan since the early 1980s. Also, it says that since 1977 they’ve opposed every single Afghan government, which, fair enough, none of them have been great, but if pressed, it would be interesting to hear their opinions on how relatively bad each particular government was for Afghan women. My guess is that if it really came down to it, they’d have to admit that some of those governments were objectively considerably better than others on the women’s rights front.
💯
It's just as much able-bodied feminism as it is white, but of course that aspect doesn't get highlighted, as always. I wonder why?
What are you saying?
Because people can't focus on every issue simultaneously? I would agree that there is lots to discuss in that aspect if you had framed it differently. Let's not tear down people doing important and good work just because they don't tackle every conceivable issue at once.
There are women who fight for disability rights. Feminists and non feminists.
❤️
I’m a feminist. I stand up for women’s rights for equality.
@@dwightschrute47 Should a trans man taking testosterone be the world champion in women's sports? Because that seems to be the world you want, separating sports by _chromosomal_ sex of all things.
@@h..8083 You have a skew idea what feminism means. Anyone who supports equal rights for women, is a fminist. It's not that hard mate. Very straight forward stuff to think about out.
@@Domzdream I'll never call myself a feminist, and I believe in equal rights for women. Watched too much black woman trauma from white women in the '70s and '80s, then grew up and experienced it myself. Totally understood why Alice Walker created an intersectional feminist movement called womanism.
@@andreabrown4541 That's good that you support their support for equal rights. I know you hate the label of feminist, but sorry, you automatically qualify as that.
It's like someone who doesnt want to be known as an Atheist, but doesnt believe in any gods. He's automatically an atheists, irrespective of what he calls himself as.
Definition of a feminist:
an advocate of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes
👍
I am not into Religion and therefore I do not believe in the Rights of religious Men to oppress Women in the Name of Religion.
That Women can be Racists is a sad Fact as Men can be Racists. And this has to be fought, but that does not mean we have to accept Taliban mistreat Women.
That’s my problem with feminism, Kyle Kalinsky calls it Mc feminism. If feminism wasn’t used for politically advancing corporate interests through the Democrat Party by means of identity politics, if it wasn’t for that I would be much less critical of feminism.
McFeminism is a much better name for it. "White feminism" is a great rhetorical way for the left to continue to eat itself. Where I disagree is that I think even most non-partisan or non-corporatized feminism sucks.
LOL Feminists don't advance corporate interests. Corporations don't have sexes or genders. You seem to be in some contest to develop the most ludicrous ideas.
@@aheroictaxidriver3180 they use feminism to advance corporate interests by doing just what Emma said, “George bush won’t someone think of the women” was used in part to justify the war on terror, and that directly benefited the industrial military complex, which is directly connected to things like Boeing and Lockheed Martin. So you’re 100% wrong.
@@rockerteen8300 George Bush is not a feminist, genius.
Wait so you see through this but instead of seeking out actual revolutionary feminism you choose to just side eye feminism as a whole? That's silly.
Wow, thanks, guys
Boop
Again with the misinformation about imperialism. Imperialism is not a foreign policy, it is an economic system. Imperialism cannot be abolished by changing foreign policy, it will only be abolished when the ruling class is overthrown and private ownership of the means of production is abolished.
This is like saying you can't exploit a rule because exploitation is the extraction of surplus value of labor. The word refers to both things. If you can understand that "scientific socialism" doesn't mean you can study it in a lab, you can understand this. Your average lib both wants imperialism to end in one way but also doesn't care that it exists in the other.
I thought you were going to say non-replacement fertility rates, collapsing demographics
First
How is this any different from Robin Diangelo's "white fragility"?
This analysis challenges capitalism and imperialism whereas White Fragility does not. That being said, she was absolutely, 100% on the money with the title
@@sirius1696 Yes, you are right. It has depths that "white fragility" lacks (because it's dumb nonsense). But "white feminism" doesn't refer to an actual phenomena, distinct from anything else we already know.
I have no horse in the feminism stuff but This labeling and distinction does not seem like the best way to go about attaining actual progress on this matter.
I disagree. It’s important to understand critiques of the feminist movement especially when the white feminist movement may reinforce the same systems we should be fighting. We should aim to be better. That’s true progress
that just doesn't make any sense
if we don't address the actual nature of our issues, how can we hope to solve them?
@@h..8083 ...? what lol
@@dwightschrute47 no, no you're not lol
The only way to understand what you are saying and why you are saying it, is to understand what you AREN'T saying, and WHY you aren't saying that.
Sorry I haven't watched the segment, but I don't like this premise and can't watch further. Do I think white people (all of us) should be doing more to support black people and end racism? Yes. But white women are the demographic (outside of black people) who are most sympathetic and participate in activism for this case, so I hate that we are always scapegoated for racism. Of course, *some* white women are the most virulent racists out there, but the demographic as a whole (outside of black people themselves) is the most supportive of the cause for racial justice, so this singling out of white women has to stop.
It also makes me angry that people don't fight misogyny with the same virulence that we fight racism in our society. The fight against racism has not been successful, and it too sadly exists everywhere. But so does misogyny. Black people die at the hands of cops all the time and it's horrific. But women die at the hands of their partners every single day (at a higher rate) and NOBODY talks about that at a national level.
It seems that some black women always apportion the blame to white women for misogynoir. And some white women deserve that blame. But very few of them call out black men for their role in misogyny, which, I have to say (its a generalisation but true), black men as a demographic have not been blame-free in any way when it comes to misogyny, and I'm sure if you surveyed a random 100 people, you're going to find a shit tonne more white women who are vehemently in favor of the black cause, than black men who even basically support feminism.
So if you're gonna call out specific demographics: call out everyone, or call out nobody. I also think "the problem with white women" is just a terrible name for a book anyway. If you wrote a book and titled it "the problem with black men" people would be all over you, and for good reason.
P.S. I'm sure this book is largely referring to the start of feminism, which was historically initiated by purely white women (as black women had zero rights) and was horribly racist. But that still doesn't give you the right to call a book "the problem with white women", because that's an attack on all (including current) white women - not a bygone trend of wealthy, white, racist women trying to get the vote. And before y'all say: this sounds "all lives matter"y. I don't believe in the sentiment behind All Lives Matter in any way. It's the singling out of white WOMEN, not white people as a whole, for being culpable for racism, that I take issue with.
Also I can see the comment section below full of people using this as a justification for "not supporting feminism". I'm sorry but this stinks. The left needs to do better here. There are better ways to fight racism than throwing feminists under a bus (although I'm happy for people to be made aware of, and acknowledge the extent of racism in the past, including by groups who were supposed to be fighting for rights and instead they were throwing black women under a bus). But it shouldn't be under this tone of "therefore feminism and white women suck". Which is too often the conclusion here.
@S Regan, Seriously! Why do you think white women made themselves a "minority," when they were the majority, after the Civil Rights Movement? Black women, like my mother who had been active in the CRM for more than a decade, were more than willing to work with white women in 2nd wave feminism only to be rebuffed and marginalized.
I was a fan of the majority report but I've noticed a shift in how they seem to want to devide over coming together ❤. I hope they change course.
lol what a bizarre takeaway
This is literally a video about critiquing those who would divide movements based on identity instead of having an intersectional approach. If this critique causes you to feel on the outs, look in the mirror for the one needing to 'change course'.
@@zotaninoron3548 love not hate
@@davidgetchell630 Whose hating, exactly?
@Alabama Man Special Edition y'all stormed the capital because you were unable to win more votes
feminism tends toward absurdity more often than not.