YES, more of this. Even if this prototype does not pan out (and I have my doubts about cooling), making a mini PC with a ton of m.2 slots (with proper cooling) is 1000% something we want
I do hope this ends up getting released as this finally pushed me to buy an MS-01! Have been looking for a small home server that can do 10gbe, 5+ NVME SSDs, and was more flexible than the Flashstor.
Even this doesn't pan out : they can still use that knowledge to make one works for the next model. Any brand that try to innovate for their customer is good.
since they'll need extra cooling anyway they should make this as a whole module that extends the case vertically. maybe with some extra ports or other functionality if that fits alongside a nice big fan and the nvme expansion.
When Dr. Frankenstein's creature was bolted together, things did not turn out especially well. Maybe Minisforum should rethink this addition to/conversion of the MS-01 and start building the MS-02. The same size box -- more or less -- in width and depth, but a bit thicker, to take a wider PCIe card in its internal slot, and with an OCuLink interface, like their AMD-based macine has. Since the MS-01 is already thicker that one rack unit, a 2U sized machine wouldn't be a major mounting hindrance. Indeed, I think Minisforum should offer a side-by-side 2U 2-unit rack mount kit for the machine.
I think they could do a 1U version if they committed to the idea that 2 of them should fit side-by-side in a 19" Rack. Personally I think they could make it a little wider, and a little longer. Use 40mm fans in the front.. Basically they should make a 1u half width "node" with a mobile SOC. Front to back airflow. They could even make the 1U mounting brackets themselves.
You can get 2 in 2U, or 4 in 3U right now, from Hive Tech Solutions in Australia. I have two of the 4 in 3U units and one of the 2 in 2U units. I'm a happy customer and they provide great customer service (replaced the entire first shipment, that arrived in the US smashed, with a more sturdily-designed set, that made it in one piece, at no additional cost to me; they printed a custom request item I had, and they are tinkering with the design of another custom request of mine.) I cannot speak more highly of their work and customer service.
It is possible to connect an external graphic card with existing usb 4 thunderbolt if I am not mistaken. A 2 x m.2 x4 gen 4 card with raid function put into existing PCIe x 16 gen 4 wired x 8 slot would be interesting for a workstation or virtualization platform but they are trying to add a NAS function by force. Spliting m.2 x4 gen 3 into 4 x 1 connectors makes disks slower but m.2 x4 gen 4 is capable of caching files for them and a raid function would be useful. This computer makes sense if one can combine a couple of functions on a one portable platform otherwise there are better options.
I've seen it before on another YT channel. Kudos for Minisforum for designing something quite creatively. Eventhough it might have some limitations and perhaps issues that still need to be overcome. Minisforum is really trying to move mountains (in a positive way!). If they can get the cooling solved in a solid way (thicker cooling pads stacked on top of all the M.2's?) it could be a desirable solution for some. As for the BDOD, you're sure you have removed the CrowdStruck drivers? (joke!) Looking forward to part 2!
Thank you. I'm only an enthusiastic amateur, who plays round with stuff like this for mental exercise. Your videos really help me, both with awareness of the hardware out there, and with ideas.. All the disclaimers with this board are noted ... but it's so interesting!
I love that Minisforum is experimenting in the consumer space like this. If the cooling is critical, I wouldn't mind his as like an add-on hump to the case, or a small extension to the case.
The coolest thing is that Minisforum shows interest in the desires of its customers, this is very commendable. Previously, I don’t remember such responsiveness from large brands.
I know some will complain about the PCI arrangement but it makes a lot of sense for Truenas or Unraid. You can buy a superfast NVME and put it in the PCIE4x4 slot and make it a cache drive
Sadly not possible I don't think, 3.0 X4 split into X1's I think is the best option running them a 1GB each, you can get slower older drives for cheaper. Splitting the 4.0 x4 into x1's I think would be a waste cause you would be limiting a 4.0 NVME to 2GB and that is dumb cause the cost of drives and loss of the drive speeds not to mention the extra cooling 4.0 drives need over 3.0.
Nice one MinisForum! Nice to know that there are companies out there that are paying attention to their customers and willing to try and innovate. Now this as pointed out may never become a purchasable product, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that MinisForum will probably use what's learn here for some future product that fits the bill.
I don't think it would hurt if they sold it with an alternative cover that's raised a bit and can accomodate the active cooler and the heatsinks for the drives themselves. It would still remain pretty small.
I'm glad they are working on things like this. This is what customers want. As long as the lane can saturate 10Gb, I'm all for it although PCIE4 x1 would have been nice. Please make this with large slim fan on top. And please don't get rid of 12600 option as that is more than enough for NAS storage machine and runs a lot cooler than that 13900.
Currently designing my own NAS, and here's what I would love. Icy Dock has 12 x m.2 SATA, and pairing it with a low profile Raid Expander card, gives me 24 drives. I'd love to see a similar product, that is 12 x m.2 sata with a 12 port pcie switch. Then you could put 12 drives, no drivers, and a m.2 slot gives you 12 drives. There is also dual mode expanders that could support it.
you could 3d print a one inch gasket/spacer to allow for the fan and cover. I hope it makes it to market, since it will give asustore some competition.
I would love to see a version of this with the pci-e 4 m.2 slot split out instead, or even better split both the pci-e 3 (split to 2 X -> pci-e 3 by 2) and pci-e 4 (split to 4 pci-e 4x1) m.2 slots, that would give a nice even 2G per nvme on the card and give you a bonus pci-3 3x1 m.2
I could see an alternate side case panel with thermal pads as a cooling solution for the 6 drive prototype. Maybe some sort of larger passive heat sync panel.
Funny realization. Manufacturers moving to the right direction. My way is am5 mobo with bifurcation card (+4 full speed nvme up to pcie5). And there is not very expensive card - Sabrent PC-P3X4 based on ASMedia ASM2812X - with cards like that you only need 1 pcie x4 slot for 4 drives, not very fast, but simple way to expand nvme storage
The first (and much deserved) Rob pcb add-on. Wheres the seagull logo? That monster of a cpu will take anything you throw at it. MinisForum can go crazy in that box.
Found this by YT randomly suggesting it to me, and I'm kinda surprised they went with the splitting of the M.2 slots the way they did. I was expecting something like going from 3.0 x4 + 3.0 x4 + 4.0 x4 to 3.0 x2/x2 + 3.0 x2/x2 + 4.0 x2/x2, instead of 3.0 x4 + 3.0 x1/x1/x1/x1 + 4.0 x4. But I guess they might be a bit limited in how they can handle the multiplexing of lanes so went with using a multiplexer for just the one mobo slot's lanes instead of trying to multiplex all 3 slots.
One of the native PCIe 3.0 M.2 slots is only x2, so they couldn't split it out to two x2. Why they didn't touch the PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot, probably because anything surrounding 4.0 is quite a lot more expensive.
They should make a motherboard version out of the ms01 configuration This in a jonsbo n5 would allow a full lenght gpu on top of hdd with a m.2 to sata adapter would be great
I would pay for a chassis extension/exoansion to make it larger overall, slot the unit into but allows you to add more to the additional area. Unsure if that would make it taller, or wider.
I still say they should have made the chassis taller (and maybe even longer), cooling would have been so much easier if was 2U sized and they maybe could have stuck a fan on the expansion card (and 2210 drives could have been an option). Still really neat to see they are working on something like this, guess we'll have to wait and see.
Yes please, I want one 😊 Edit: actually that layout seems to work; use the one leveraging the u.2 as the os drive, and the other for a raidz1 array. Thinking truenas scale with containers.
Amazon has some laptop copper plates for laptop nvme drives that come with very thin thermal pads. I have used them with good results in my sff/laptop upgrade.
@NASCompares. I had contact with Minisforum about the NAS card and they don't know when or if they going to market it. Could you maybe advise them to market it as I have interest in it?
Hope Minisforum keeps up with this to compete with the Asustor unit. Maybe, model MS-02N, balance the PCIe lane distribution and make it 6x PCIe4x2. I'll be waiting in that line.
That's awesome, I hope that it does make it down to retail, or if they don't, just be real bros to the tinkering community and release the schematics and BIOS changes for it. I do think the cooling is a problem that'll be hard to overcome in this gen, but hope, at the very least, the next generation of the design is comfortable with this kind of expansion and giving just a little bit larger dimensions for compatibility and cooling.
I wish they'd give it ECC memory (or at the very least, inband ECC), and more space for taller U.2 drives. Bonus points if they'd allow *two* U.2 drives.
@@jedrzejwrotynski9421 Not really, they already have the lanes for multiple M.2 slots, they'd just need to make multiple of them have the same "can be a U.2 instead" feature.
@@danagoyette7932 I mean ecc function You suggested it in general requires a Xeon processor and adequate chipset and moreover Xeons bring more pciex lanes over i9 or i7. Also MS-A1 with several AMD cpu brings more pciex lanes.
@@jedrzejwrotynski9421 On recent generations, the i7 processors actually support ECC if you use a workstation chipset (such as W680) rather than a consumer chipset.
I love the idea, but the lane layout is a killer for me. Sure, for a NAS with 2x10GbE this is ok, but I also use a faster nic, as you do. The original configuration with 3.0x2 for OS, 3.0x4 for M.2 and the big slot for heavy duty seems to be the sweet spot for this machine. Splitting the 3.0x4 in half for same speed redundant os drives would have been nice though.
This would be fucking incredible. I just got my first and second MS-01 a few days ago. I am planning on buying more, and turning one of them into a NAS is very appealing.
Firstly.... what is that table mat with all the writing on... and where did you get it. Second..... interesting idea, but i wonder if they would be better off designing a card for the PCIe slot that had more than 4 m.2 connectors.
Those cards are already readily available. But they're not an option for somebody like me who's using an external drive enclosure connected to an HBA on that slot.
Maybe they should make a MS-02 specifically designed for this use case. Although I see potential in this approach, it will always be sub optimal, I think.
Wouldn't it make more sense to release a separate version that's designed for the additional M.2 slots and larger case to fit adequate cooling? They already have all the main components working, so it's just a matter of putting it all in a slightly larger case.
To be fair to them, making a PCIe card to 'test interest' and whether it's feasible is ALOT cheaper and efficient than developing a whole new product. I imagine this was their thinking, anyway
Could you also test Networking over Thunderbolt please? The MS-01 has two TB Ports that can be used for Thunderbolt networking (each with abbout 25Gbit/s performance).
Tbh I technically ALREADY did this, but not in use way you are asking. I'm about 20% into my Zimacube pro review tests and I used the TB ports on the MS-01 and they worked like a charm! Not quite what you asked, but I'll try to get this tested too, alongside completing the 40Gbs tests
This is so funny. I literally mailed them July 25th that was looking forward if they developed a NAS bare one system and I have a MS-01 13900h barebone and ordered a MS-A1 barebone. I really hope they will produce and sell it. The MS-01 would be my NAS then and the MS-A1 will be my new Home lab mini PC. Don't know if you have the Lexar NM790 4TB SSD in house. If so is it possible to benchmark and test real life data transfer on it.
Very cool card! :) Nothing for me personally but still very cool! The by faaaar most disliked part of the MS-01 is the I226-LM and the bugs with DHCP/vPro and how it blocks one for using that port for DHCP server like in a software firewall.. :'( But if i understood it correctly it's not Minisforum's fault.
Researching this. Most of what I'm seeing says 'no', but CRUCIALLY not ALL! And I don't wanna make the vid till I have more confirmation. No point t scaring people. Nevertheless, if Intel's patch is applied BEFORE damage takes hold, then it's apparently ok. But it's weather 24x7 system that are not generally at PEAK very often/at all, would fall fowl of it. Plus SoC/mobile versions on NAS have a tendency to be a bit of, even Vs laptop CPUs. TBC buddy
Short answer: YES, all Raptor Lake generation at the least. But what's more important is the way the Intel is handling the problem, which is badly. Not only have they been withholding information, but their official plan is not to recall the effected processors. Lawsuits are inevitable at this point. The biggest problems with their current microcode patch plan is that it's unclear that it will do anything other than slow down the processors, and the fact that they haven't been forthcoming with information about this KNOWN problem for 2 (!) generations of processors doesn't encourage us to trust them now. For all we know the microcode patch is just a stalling tactic until they can fix the problem for real in their 15th gen.
From what I've read desktop is more affected than mobile because of the overvoltage microcode issues - I've bought 2 x 13th gen laptops and a 13th gen i9 MS-01 in the last three months - so hopefully that's true (I've not had any issues, so far...).
My guess is that this really is a prototype and we'll most likely see an actual product like this in the next version of the MS-01 (perhaps an MS-02 that doesn't use a Raptor Lake processor?). Who knows what processor that will use, maybe the Core Ultra 9 285K? Ummm... if Arrow Lake doesn't turn out to have the same degradation problems as Raptor Lake. The MS-01 is an I/O monster, it's too bad that the MS-A1 isn't. There's a bunch of reasons for this, not the least of them being that once they start adding this many M.2 NVME slots, they really need either more PCIE lanes or faster gen5 lanes or both (the Ultra 9 285 has 20x PCIE5 lanes). Plus, by designing an MS-02 with this sort of daughter card in mind from the beginning, they can also upgrade the 2x SFP+ ports to a single QSFP port (100Gbps!), the NICs to 10GiB, and they can take more creative license in squeezing cooling into the case. A slightly taller case that accommodates the extra cooling, might also allow us to fit a double width PCIE card inside a well, so added bonus? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea of an expansion option for SSD storage, it's really encouraging to see a company build a thing like this at all! Minisforum likes to push the envelope and that's great for us. There's also the small issue of seeing how well their NVME-to-Oculink adapter holds up to real world usage, we won't be privy to failure rates on that, but it will surely color whether we see similar daughter card designs in the future. I hope we do see a multi-SSD daughter card soon, but I wouldn't pin too much hope on seeing many upgrade products made for systems that use 13/14th gen processors.
Interesting unit but heat is going to be a massive issue. Nice modular idea though with the addition card! If I install unraid on my pc, is it a partition or does it replace windows? I really like the look of it :)
Will this SSD fitt inn the U2 slot of the Minisforum MS-01 aand function withoutt any issues? It's a Western Digittall Ultrastar DC SN650, U.3, 15MM, 15,360GB, 2.5-inch, PCIe.
The card is good, but you know what would be better? That's right, a design of mini PC that is dedicated for micro NAS or micro hyperconverged machine. It could be a bit bigger than the MS-01 in height, but with the following improvement: proper ventilation for stuff inside as the ms-01 can overheat More m.2 ports (let's say 6+) space for sata drives 2.5" (or u2) good ventilation for drives too. 2x10GB sfp + just like on current ms-01 usb 4 + thunderbolt. at least 13900HX or 7945HX 4 sodimm ports (yeah we could finally have 192GB of RAM). SAS 8088 or newer for external expandability. That should be barely more expensive than the ms-01 to build but give a lot more options and can be an all in one mini server for a lot of people.
Agreed. But as I mention in the vid from my correspondence with Minisforum, they are unsure if there is a market for this (they aren't a NAS focused company, so the analytics and market stats aren't freely available). This is a test to see engagement...and long before this vid was live, they already had enough positive data to pursue this one!
Does it use cpu-based bifurcation? Do you need special bios for that to work? If it is on a stock bios - I'm sure even if they'll not sell it I'll be able to trace something similar
Maybe they'd be better off making a product from the ground up designed to have multiple drives. Kinda like the ssd nas from ugreen/asus/qnap but without the OS. That would work much better than kludging this card to an existing device.
would be interesting if they could make it "standard" with proper cooling and keeping the noise down... and ditch the U.2 thing which isn't useful for most
I have an ARC 380 in 1 of mine that I am currently testing with :D. Sparkle Genie A380, removed the fans and it "Just Barely Fits". Thinking about adding fan to outside or doing a swap w/ the A310 heatsink/fan but wanted to test if fan would be needed at all since only using it for transcoding/compute, but I may just use the onboard GPU instead and using a dual 25G network card instead. Still trying to find the time to do the testing....
It is a PCI 4.0 x8 slot, however they have already said that the way the lanes come off the CPU they can not any PCIe bifurcation to it in BIOS. That being said it can only do 1 NVME on it unless you get a card that has a PCIe Splitter chip on it. Something like GLOTRENDS PA40(3.0 x8 for 4 NVME's) or GLOTRENDS PA20(3.0 x4 for 2 NVME's). I have not tested that these work or fit but theoretically they should. GEOTERNDS PA21 or PA41 would not.
I'd rather have 2x PCIe/4 or 4x PCIe4/2 M.2 devices in the PCI slot. An extra 2x pair of PCIe4/4 devices would be excellent. That would provide 1x PCIe3/2, 1x PCIe3/4 and 3x PCIe4/4 all up. I think there are some cards available, but it would be excellent if Minisforum sold or at least sanctioned a particular brand(s).
What i'd love to see someone do is make a reasonable priced PCIE card that has a PLX chip to take 8 PCIE 4.0 lanes, and turns them into 16x3.0 lanes, then have 8 slots, 4 on the front, 4 on the back with an old school blower GPU like fan and heatsinks that cools both sides, automatically bifurcate between 8 SSDS getting 2x, and 4 SSDs getting 4x To be clear, i dont want it to be a hardware raid card, but rather more like a USB-hub for PCIe
Alteratively a simpler card may be one that still has a PLX, but just does bifurcation between 8*1x and 4*2x and runs at whatever PCIe version the motherboard supports.
I am in for one for my MS-01 if they also offer a better cooling to go along.. Or even a way to increase the height of the basis with a standup. I don't mind few extra cm of height
Just print a fan bracket on it and put a large fan on it and connect it with USB? We should just get more PCIe lanes without needing to resort to large expensive servers.
YES, more of this. Even if this prototype does not pan out (and I have my doubts about cooling), making a mini PC with a ton of m.2 slots (with proper cooling) is 1000% something we want
I'm guessing the cooling will require a separate slide-on case with a slightly higher lid to allow space for fans.
Is there an update?
I do hope this ends up getting released as this finally pushed me to buy an MS-01! Have been looking for a small home server that can do 10gbe, 5+ NVME SSDs, and was more flexible than the Flashstor.
Even this doesn't pan out : they can still use that knowledge to make one works for the next model.
Any brand that try to innovate for their customer is good.
since they'll need extra cooling anyway they should make this as a whole module that extends the case vertically. maybe with some extra ports or other functionality if that fits alongside a nice big fan and the nvme expansion.
When Dr. Frankenstein's creature was bolted together, things did not turn out especially well. Maybe Minisforum should rethink this addition to/conversion of the MS-01 and start building the MS-02. The same size box -- more or less -- in width and depth, but a bit thicker, to take a wider PCIe card in its internal slot, and with an OCuLink interface, like their AMD-based macine has.
Since the MS-01 is already thicker that one rack unit, a 2U sized machine wouldn't be a major mounting hindrance. Indeed, I think Minisforum should offer a side-by-side 2U 2-unit rack mount kit for the machine.
I think they could do a 1U version if they committed to the idea that 2 of them should fit side-by-side in a 19" Rack.
Personally I think they could make it a little wider, and a little longer. Use 40mm fans in the front..
Basically they should make a 1u half width "node" with a mobile SOC. Front to back airflow. They could even make the 1U mounting brackets themselves.
You can get 2 in 2U, or 4 in 3U right now, from Hive Tech Solutions in Australia. I have two of the 4 in 3U units and one of the 2 in 2U units. I'm a happy customer and they provide great customer service (replaced the entire first shipment, that arrived in the US smashed, with a more sturdily-designed set, that made it in one piece, at no additional cost to me; they printed a custom request item I had, and they are tinkering with the design of another custom request of mine.) I cannot speak more highly of their work and customer service.
@@shaunerickson2858 I've been to their site some time ago. I will give them another look. Thanks for the recommendation.
It is possible to connect an external graphic card with existing usb 4 thunderbolt if I am not mistaken. A 2 x m.2 x4 gen 4 card with raid function put into existing PCIe x 16 gen 4 wired x 8 slot would be interesting for a workstation or virtualization platform but they are trying to add a NAS function by force. Spliting m.2 x4 gen 3 into 4 x 1 connectors makes disks slower but m.2 x4 gen 4 is capable of caching files for them and a raid function would be useful. This computer makes sense if one can combine a couple of functions on a one portable platform otherwise there are better options.
I've seen it before on another YT channel.
Kudos for Minisforum for designing something quite creatively.
Eventhough it might have some limitations and perhaps issues that still need to be overcome.
Minisforum is really trying to move mountains (in a positive way!).
If they can get the cooling solved in a solid way (thicker cooling pads stacked on top of all the M.2's?) it could be a desirable solution for some.
As for the BDOD, you're sure you have removed the CrowdStruck drivers? (joke!)
Looking forward to part 2!
Please release it Minisforum!!
Thank you. I'm only an enthusiastic amateur, who plays round with stuff like this for mental exercise. Your videos really help me, both with awareness of the hardware out there, and with ideas.. All the disclaimers with this board are noted ... but it's so interesting!
I love that Minisforum is experimenting in the consumer space like this.
If the cooling is critical, I wouldn't mind his as like an add-on hump to the case, or a small extension to the case.
The coolest thing is that Minisforum shows interest in the desires of its customers, this is very commendable. Previously, I don’t remember such responsiveness from large brands.
THIS!
+1
I know some will complain about the PCI arrangement but it makes a lot of sense for Truenas or Unraid. You can buy a superfast NVME and put it in the PCIE4x4 slot and make it a cache drive
This make 3x NVME with 4x4 PCI-E in 6x NVME with 2x4 PCI-E LAN's.
For the Most NVME's its enough. Also for 2x10gbit nic in a Trunk.
I want one. Excellent post as always.
Looks good but I would love to see a more balanced speed across all the connectors
Sadly not possible I don't think, 3.0 X4 split into X1's I think is the best option running them a 1GB each, you can get slower older drives for cheaper. Splitting the 4.0 x4 into x1's I think would be a waste cause you would be limiting a 4.0 NVME to 2GB and that is dumb cause the cost of drives and loss of the drive speeds not to mention the extra cooling 4.0 drives need over 3.0.
Nice one MinisForum! Nice to know that there are companies out there that are paying attention to their customers and willing to try and innovate. Now this as pointed out may never become a purchasable product, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that MinisForum will probably use what's learn here for some future product that fits the bill.
THIS!
Hi, any updates for this?
I don't think it would hurt if they sold it with an alternative cover that's raised a bit and can accomodate the active cooler and the heatsinks for the drives themselves. It would still remain pretty small.
this seems to be great idea, minisforum good job. hope it will release the retail version soon❤
I'm glad they are working on things like this. This is what customers want. As long as the lane can saturate 10Gb, I'm all for it although PCIE4 x1 would have been nice. Please make this with large slim fan on top. And please don't get rid of 12600 option as that is more than enough for NAS storage machine and runs a lot cooler than that 13900.
sooooo where can we buy it ? :)
Currently designing my own NAS, and here's what I would love. Icy Dock has 12 x m.2 SATA, and pairing it with a low profile Raid Expander card, gives me 24 drives. I'd love to see a similar product, that is 12 x m.2 sata with a 12 port pcie switch. Then you could put 12 drives, no drivers, and a m.2 slot gives you 12 drives. There is also dual mode expanders that could support it.
Im very keen if they can get a finished product out. This has a lot of potential in a few markets including business IT.
Please provide an update
Tbh I hope this makes it to market. I could see a lot of niche uses for a system like this.
you could 3d print a one inch gasket/spacer to allow for the fan and cover. I hope it makes it to market, since it will give asustore some competition.
I would love to see a version of this with the pci-e 4 m.2 slot split out instead, or even better split both the pci-e 3 (split to 2 X -> pci-e 3 by 2) and pci-e 4 (split to 4 pci-e 4x1) m.2 slots, that would give a nice even 2G per nvme on the card and give you a bonus pci-3 3x1 m.2
Any word if this is going to be released?
I picture proxmox with ceph running on this and being really useful.
Ceph would burn those drives right up and the performance would be bad. Enterprise U.2 is already the way to go for Caph in a MS-01.
I could see an alternate side case panel with thermal pads as a cooling solution for the 6 drive prototype.
Maybe some sort of larger passive heat sync panel.
Funny realization. Manufacturers moving to the right direction. My way is am5 mobo with bifurcation card (+4 full speed nvme up to pcie5). And there is not very expensive card - Sabrent PC-P3X4 based on ASMedia ASM2812X - with cards like that you only need 1 pcie x4 slot for 4 drives, not very fast, but simple way to expand nvme storage
The first (and much deserved) Rob pcb add-on. Wheres the seagull logo? That monster of a cpu will take anything you throw at it. MinisForum can go crazy in that box.
Found this by YT randomly suggesting it to me, and I'm kinda surprised they went with the splitting of the M.2 slots the way they did.
I was expecting something like going from 3.0 x4 + 3.0 x4 + 4.0 x4 to 3.0 x2/x2 + 3.0 x2/x2 + 4.0 x2/x2, instead of 3.0 x4 + 3.0 x1/x1/x1/x1 + 4.0 x4. But I guess they might be a bit limited in how they can handle the multiplexing of lanes so went with using a multiplexer for just the one mobo slot's lanes instead of trying to multiplex all 3 slots.
One of the native PCIe 3.0 M.2 slots is only x2, so they couldn't split it out to two x2. Why they didn't touch the PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot, probably because anything surrounding 4.0 is quite a lot more expensive.
They should make a motherboard version out of the ms01 configuration
This in a jonsbo n5 would allow a full lenght gpu on top of hdd with a m.2 to sata adapter would be great
Bonkers. Great video. Thanks!
The word "bonkers" is not used enough! Thanks for the positive vibes man
YES please small form factor NAS is what we all want
I would pay for a chassis extension/exoansion to make it larger overall, slot the unit into but allows you to add more to the additional area. Unsure if that would make it taller, or wider.
I still say they should have made the chassis taller (and maybe even longer), cooling would have been so much easier if was 2U sized and they maybe could have stuck a fan on the expansion card (and 2210 drives could have been an option). Still really neat to see they are working on something like this, guess we'll have to wait and see.
Yes please, I want one 😊
Edit: actually that layout seems to work; use the one leveraging the u.2 as the os drive, and the other for a raidz1 array. Thinking truenas scale with containers.
I expect them to make it a separate module with a addon case that screws onto the main body if they release it
Amazon has some laptop copper plates for laptop nvme drives that come with very thin thermal pads. I have used them with good results in my sff/laptop upgrade.
I think it shows an awesome company who listen. Even if it comes to nothing, they get credit for trying.
@NASCompares.
I had contact with Minisforum about the NAS card and they don't know when or if they going to market it.
Could you maybe advise them to market it as I have interest in it?
Cool! nice of them to share.
Seems like an imperfect temporary solution when a redesigned and/or MS-02 variant might be better long-term.
Now they should make a rackmount version of thus, would be amazing
I see they are coming for the QNAP nvme system. If the Ms-01 does thunderbolt to thunderbolt then this is a GAME CHANGER for a lower price.
YES
Mate see how many of us appericated your review!!
gahhh, I hope they make this. So cool!
Hope Minisforum keeps up with this to compete with the Asustor unit. Maybe, model MS-02N, balance the PCIe lane distribution and make it 6x PCIe4x2. I'll be waiting in that line.
This needs to make it to retail as I’ll be in
That's awesome, I hope that it does make it down to retail, or if they don't, just be real bros to the tinkering community and release the schematics and BIOS changes for it. I do think the cooling is a problem that'll be hard to overcome in this gen, but hope, at the very least, the next generation of the design is comfortable with this kind of expansion and giving just a little bit larger dimensions for compatibility and cooling.
maybe if the expansion card is finalised they'll sell it with a new outer case to make space for the cooling fan?
I wish they'd give it ECC memory (or at the very least, inband ECC), and more space for taller U.2 drives. Bonus points if they'd allow *two* U.2 drives.
this would require a Xeon processor if I am not mistaken. It would also possibly add more PCIe lanes.
samsung u.2 pm683 comes in 7mm mlc
@@jedrzejwrotynski9421 Not really, they already have the lanes for multiple M.2 slots, they'd just need to make multiple of them have the same "can be a U.2 instead" feature.
@@danagoyette7932 I mean ecc function You suggested it in general requires a Xeon processor and adequate chipset and moreover Xeons bring more pciex lanes over i9 or i7. Also MS-A1 with several AMD cpu brings more pciex lanes.
@@jedrzejwrotynski9421 On recent generations, the i7 processors actually support ECC if you use a workstation chipset (such as W680) rather than a consumer chipset.
0:57 who is "MSI forum" and why they were watching that video?
Man alive, I wish I'd cut that F up...
How do we get one with ecc, wink wink?
Love it... Hope it turns into a retail item
I love the idea, but the lane layout is a killer for me. Sure, for a NAS with 2x10GbE this is ok, but I also use a faster nic, as you do. The original configuration with 3.0x2 for OS, 3.0x4 for M.2 and the big slot for heavy duty seems to be the sweet spot for this machine. Splitting the 3.0x4 in half for same speed redundant os drives would have been nice though.
Fully saturation of the network would be 2*sfp25 mikrotek has the perfect switch for it so ceph ssd osd would benperfect 😊
great idea, it just might push me to buy ms01
if they release that in a polished version (ie with cooling) they will officially do more than assus for their customers.
This would be fucking incredible. I just got my first and second MS-01 a few days ago. I am planning on buying more, and turning one of them into a NAS is very appealing.
Firstly.... what is that table mat with all the writing on... and where did you get it.
Second..... interesting idea, but i wonder if they would be better off designing a card for the PCIe slot that had more than 4 m.2 connectors.
Those cards are already readily available. But they're not an option for somebody like me who's using an external drive enclosure connected to an HBA on that slot.
Maybe they should make a MS-02 specifically designed for this use case. Although I see potential in this approach, it will always be sub optimal, I think.
Wouldn't it make more sense to release a separate version that's designed for the additional M.2 slots and larger case to fit adequate cooling? They already have all the main components working, so it's just a matter of putting it all in a slightly larger case.
To be fair to them, making a PCIe card to 'test interest' and whether it's feasible is ALOT cheaper and efficient than developing a whole new product. I imagine this was their thinking, anyway
Could you also test Networking over Thunderbolt please? The MS-01 has two TB Ports that can be used for Thunderbolt networking (each with abbout 25Gbit/s performance).
Tbh I technically ALREADY did this, but not in use way you are asking. I'm about 20% into my Zimacube pro review tests and I used the TB ports on the MS-01 and they worked like a charm! Not quite what you asked, but I'll try to get this tested too, alongside completing the 40Gbs tests
Will this be available for MS-A1
Shiiittt. I need it👏👏👏
This is so funny. I literally mailed them July 25th that was looking forward if they developed a NAS bare one system and I have a MS-01 13900h barebone and ordered a MS-A1 barebone.
I really hope they will produce and sell it.
The MS-01 would be my NAS then and the MS-A1 will be my new Home lab mini PC.
Don't know if you have the Lexar NM790 4TB SSD in house.
If so is it possible to benchmark and test real life data transfer on it.
Very cool card! :) Nothing for me personally but still very cool! The by faaaar most disliked part of the MS-01 is the I226-LM and the bugs with DHCP/vPro and how it blocks one for using that port for DHCP server like in a software firewall.. :'( But if i understood it correctly it's not Minisforum's fault.
I'm interested on this for the same purpose, but, instead of this convoluted way, just adding a nvme adapter on the pcie slot.
MS-02? 10mm thicker?
amazing. pls release it
Hey, that would be great. I love my little MS-01. Mine is a Blue Iris Server, and with my limited cameras, Reolink 8k Its doing ok without a GPU.
Air jet mini would be cool to replace the fan
Is that Intel issue affecting the mobile chip in this too? I’ve heard conflicting reports.
Researching this. Most of what I'm seeing says 'no', but CRUCIALLY not ALL! And I don't wanna make the vid till I have more confirmation. No point t scaring people. Nevertheless, if Intel's patch is applied BEFORE damage takes hold, then it's apparently ok. But it's weather 24x7 system that are not generally at PEAK very often/at all, would fall fowl of it. Plus SoC/mobile versions on NAS have a tendency to be a bit of, even Vs laptop CPUs. TBC buddy
Short answer: YES, all Raptor Lake generation at the least.
But what's more important is the way the Intel is handling the problem, which is badly. Not only have they been withholding information, but their official plan is not to recall the effected processors. Lawsuits are inevitable at this point.
The biggest problems with their current microcode patch plan is that it's unclear that it will do anything other than slow down the processors, and the fact that they haven't been forthcoming with information about this KNOWN problem for 2 (!) generations of processors doesn't encourage us to trust them now. For all we know the microcode patch is just a stalling tactic until they can fix the problem for real in their 15th gen.
@@daveweinstein5044 Yeah, I’m pretty pissed as I bought an MS-01 like a month and a half before this started on May 6.
From what I've read desktop is more affected than mobile because of the overvoltage microcode issues - I've bought 2 x 13th gen laptops and a 13th gen i9 MS-01 in the last three months - so hopefully that's true (I've not had any issues, so far...).
idk they can try the next gen by adding 10-30mm thicker to add that with cooling
and oculink please
yes plss
Where are those pci-e lanes coming from though?
@@jorper2526 I want it all!
@@jorper2526 from etherlink oft2
Your voice sounds like David Williams of little Britain...imagine David reviewing tech ey.
My guess is that this really is a prototype and we'll most likely see an actual product like this in the next version of the MS-01 (perhaps an MS-02 that doesn't use a Raptor Lake processor?). Who knows what processor that will use, maybe the Core Ultra 9 285K? Ummm... if Arrow Lake doesn't turn out to have the same degradation problems as Raptor Lake. The MS-01 is an I/O monster, it's too bad that the MS-A1 isn't.
There's a bunch of reasons for this, not the least of them being that once they start adding this many M.2 NVME slots, they really need either more PCIE lanes or faster gen5 lanes or both (the Ultra 9 285 has 20x PCIE5 lanes). Plus, by designing an MS-02 with this sort of daughter card in mind from the beginning, they can also upgrade the 2x SFP+ ports to a single QSFP port (100Gbps!), the NICs to 10GiB, and they can take more creative license in squeezing cooling into the case. A slightly taller case that accommodates the extra cooling, might also allow us to fit a double width PCIE card inside a well, so added bonus?
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea of an expansion option for SSD storage, it's really encouraging to see a company build a thing like this at all! Minisforum likes to push the envelope and that's great for us.
There's also the small issue of seeing how well their NVME-to-Oculink adapter holds up to real world usage, we won't be privy to failure rates on that, but it will surely color whether we see similar daughter card designs in the future. I hope we do see a multi-SSD daughter card soon, but I wouldn't pin too much hope on seeing many upgrade products made for systems that use 13/14th gen processors.
Personally, id just invest in a large enterprise u.2 drive over this card with a bunch of NVMe drives, but it's a really cool solution nonetheless.
Just keep the speed of the card to pcie 3.0 they need way less cooling and is fast enough for any LAN connection.Even SATA M.2 are fast enough.
Sata M.2 is legacy, it's better to develop for M.2 nvme, even pcie 3.0 with x2 lanes per drive is 100% fine for a large array like this
I have to have this.
Interesting unit but heat is going to be a massive issue. Nice modular idea though with the addition card!
If I install unraid on my pc, is it a partition or does it replace windows? I really like the look of it :)
If you're only using gen 3.0 drives you're probably fine
Will this SSD fitt inn the U2 slot of the Minisforum MS-01 aand function withoutt any issues? It's a Western Digittall Ultrastar DC SN650, U.3, 15MM, 15,360GB, 2.5-inch, PCIe.
Nice, on my want list.
The card is good, but you know what would be better?
That's right, a design of mini PC that is dedicated for micro NAS or micro hyperconverged machine.
It could be a bit bigger than the MS-01 in height, but with the following improvement:
proper ventilation for stuff inside as the ms-01 can overheat
More m.2 ports (let's say 6+)
space for sata drives 2.5" (or u2)
good ventilation for drives too.
2x10GB sfp + just like on current ms-01
usb 4 + thunderbolt.
at least 13900HX or 7945HX
4 sodimm ports (yeah we could finally have 192GB of RAM).
SAS 8088 or newer for external expandability.
That should be barely more expensive than the ms-01 to build but give a lot more options and can be an all in one mini server for a lot of people.
Agreed. But as I mention in the vid from my correspondence with Minisforum, they are unsure if there is a market for this (they aren't a NAS focused company, so the analytics and market stats aren't freely available). This is a test to see engagement...and long before this vid was live, they already had enough positive data to pursue this one!
Does it use cpu-based bifurcation? Do you need special bios for that to work?
If it is on a stock bios - I'm sure even if they'll not sell it I'll be able to trace something similar
He did say bios firmware updates were necessary.
I fuckin cant wait for this......... and then if and when HexOS comes out.. and we put that in there..... thats starting to look tasty
anyone happen to know the DC jack size? for MS-01?
You tried testing the 40Gb interfaces on Linux by any chance?
New test rig arrived yesterday. Should do the 40Gb test next week. Will add a few other tests to the vid as well
Please measure fan noise on the next video.
Thank you.....
Maybe they'd be better off making a product from the ground up designed to have multiple drives. Kinda like the ssd nas from ugreen/asus/qnap but without the OS.
That would work much better than kludging this card to an existing device.
would be interesting if they could make it "standard" with proper cooling and keeping the noise down... and ditch the U.2 thing which isn't useful for most
Would be nice if Minisforum would make the MS-01 to use a low-profile graphics card like ARC A380 so something different
I have an ARC 380 in 1 of mine that I am currently testing with :D. Sparkle Genie A380, removed the fans and it "Just Barely Fits". Thinking about adding fan to outside or doing a swap w/ the A310 heatsink/fan but wanted to test if fan would be needed at all since only using it for transcoding/compute, but I may just use the onboard GPU instead and using a dual 25G network card instead. Still trying to find the time to do the testing....
How many more drives can fit in that pcie slot?
It is a PCI 4.0 x8 slot, however they have already said that the way the lanes come off the CPU they can not any PCIe bifurcation to it in BIOS. That being said it can only do 1 NVME on it unless you get a card that has a PCIe Splitter chip on it. Something like GLOTRENDS PA40(3.0 x8 for 4 NVME's) or GLOTRENDS PA20(3.0 x4 for 2 NVME's). I have not tested that these work or fit but theoretically they should. GEOTERNDS PA21 or PA41 would not.
Swap the single drive to the PCIe 3.0x4 and the 4 drives over to the 4.0x4
I'd rather have 2x PCIe/4 or 4x PCIe4/2 M.2 devices in the PCI slot. An extra 2x pair of PCIe4/4 devices would be excellent. That would provide 1x PCIe3/2, 1x PCIe3/4 and 3x PCIe4/4 all up. I think there are some cards available, but it would be excellent if Minisforum sold or at least sanctioned a particular brand(s).
What i'd love to see someone do is make a reasonable priced PCIE card that has a PLX chip to take 8 PCIE 4.0 lanes, and turns them into 16x3.0 lanes, then have 8 slots, 4 on the front, 4 on the back with an old school blower GPU like fan and heatsinks that cools both sides, automatically bifurcate between 8 SSDS getting 2x, and 4 SSDs getting 4x
To be clear, i dont want it to be a hardware raid card, but rather more like a USB-hub for PCIe
Alteratively a simpler card may be one that still has a PLX, but just does bifurcation between 8*1x and 4*2x and runs at whatever PCIe version the motherboard supports.
I am in for one for my MS-01 if they also offer a better cooling to go along.. Or even a way to increase the height of the basis with a standup. I don't mind few extra cm of height
Just print a fan bracket on it and put a large fan on it and connect it with USB? We should just get more PCIe lanes without needing to resort to large expensive servers.