Smile being a trauma allegory is really frustrating considering how inaccurately it portrays it. It acted like it wanted to portray trauma as something meant to be confronted but also it doesn’t matter because it consumes you and drives you to unaliving anyway? Wouldn’t it have made more sense if her running away to her old house was making it worse? Like finding a community of people who don’t just instantly invalidate you instead of self-isolating? It basically ends up saying that trauma makes you an inconvenience to everyone in your life so they leave you and then you unalive yourself which causes someone ELSE to become infected with trauma like it’s some sort of bad luck charm?? Why??
I find it annoying whenever any horror film tries to make an allegory to anything. It never ends well, once in a blue moon you get psychological horror like Silent Hill that does work because they aren't making a direct allegory to a particular condition, they're just exploring the mind through horror. But things like DID, schizophrenia, psychosis and psycho/sociopathy never get properly presented. The film maker put a token gesture into organisations that represent these conditions but don't make any changes when they're told when their depiction is just insulting. It's not even that allegory to disorders cannot work either. My favourite piece of media is Mob Psycho 100, which more or less uses psychic powers as an allegory for autism and other neurodivergent conditions. It's brilliant.
I'm not even against the idea of trauma being contagious. I like the idea, but it was the execution that I hated. The creators didn't use that idea as well as it could have been used if they had been more thoughtful.
Me and my dad saw it and this is exactly why we hated it. It fell so flat in the end. The jumpscares were tiring verging on funny. And the ending fake out felt so cheap. For a big budget movie it all felt so cheap.
As a person on the schizophrenic spectrum, it was clear to me from the first moment of this film and has maintained in all commentary about it after, that Smile is made for people who are adjacent to and frightened by psychosis, NOT people who have experienced psychosis. It is not a coincidence, in my opinion, that the legitimacy of the film is seemingly always defended by those who “have a schizophrenic friend” or “have seen meltdowns like that before”, never from those who have actually experienced it themselves. It rings so hollow to me that it almost feels offensive, but it sits mostly in the “extremely annoying” category. The movie made me extremely uncomfortable, but more in a “triggered by the gratuitous depictions of being treated terribly for being mentally ill” way, not in a scared way. What’s insane is that I have experienced this EXACT hallucination throughout my life, and the movie still couldn’t convince me to identify with it. TLDR Smile makes me angry because its entire premise is to use mental illness as a PROP to depict terrible treatment of an acutely mentally ill person, clearly made for an audience who is not mentally ill. Trauma as entertainment. Gross.
Very well said and incredibly accurate. As a former mental health field worker this movie did nothing but depress me. It legitimately has nothing to say except: Wouldn't it be super scary if one day you suddenly lost your mind for no apparent reason? Wouldn't it be frightening to watch your entire support system collapse around you as you become more and more of a burden to them? Absolutely no empathy at all. Just "Man, mental illness sure is scary! I'm so glad that ain't me!" Disgusting.
This is an amazing comment. Thank you for saying it. As someone who has struggled with delusions and psychosis, everything you said is exactly right. I'm so tired of trauma survivors being used as monsters in film.
i remember watching this with my friends and getting so pissed off with the movie and especially ending but I wasn't able to communicate and make them understand exactly why it was so much more distressing and frustrating to me than anyone else in the room at the time i wasnt in a good place so when the movie ended the way it did i just flew off the handlebars because getting angry about the movie was better than letting the rugpull get to me
@@redwolftoboe6452 "Wouldn't it be frightening to watch your entire support system collapse around you as you become more and more of a burden to them?" hypothetically, just purely hypothetically, uh, no im not gonna ask you for solutions just holy shit wow yeah god damnit at least i know how to describe it now, thanks?
when i heard the premise for the original short film i was _certain_ that the twist would be that the re-occcuring dream wasn't a dream at alll, because she hasn't slept. not "ohhh oooh this whole time the therapist was the purple guy!"
I thought the whole point was that she was experiencing a paralysis. That she was stressing herself out over nothing in the end because sometimes the most terrifying thing there is is your imagination. The man never was real, she was just exhausted and ill. Like me fr
@ThePhantomSafetyPin at least it wouldn't of been a goofy plot twist. But truly it would require a little bit of actual rewriting to make better or more interestingly clear.
The fakeout at the end was truly…a choice. They spent this whole movie building up this monster as trauma manifested into a physical creature. Building up that having that unresolved trauma can hurt you and the ones you love. Then the big finale hits, where Rose is duking it out with the root of her current struggles, and she seems to defeat it. By confronting her trauma, she manages to defeat it. And then the creators turn to the audience and yell, “Gotcha!” It’s as lazy as it is patronizing. It’s like the creators are punishing the viewer for believing that there could be a resolution to the metaphor they’ve spend the last two hours beating us over the head with. And then, what kind of message are we left with? That trauma actually can’t be worked out and you’re doomed to succumb to the cycle no matter how hard you try? What a shitty message to give to an audience.
Exactlyyyy. The fakeout ending just turns the message from something that could be considered hopeful to something incredibly harmful. All for an ending that feels like the directors/writers themselves pointing to you like “bet you didn’t expect that ending, HUH? Hehehe 🤭.” Like ugh. The movie is still incredibly eugh with how it puts forth the message via the obnoxious characters, but the ending just feels straight up insulting. And the fact there’s going to be a Smile 2 feels even more eye rolling, because how in the world are they even going to expand on the already tired and established concept this first one put forth.
my thoughts exactly!! the metaphor is clumsy at best & downright mean-spirited at worst. maybe if the message was "everyone CAN heal from trauma but not everyone will bc some people don't want to be helped" i could almost understand the movie ending the way it does, but no, the implication is clearly that no one has ever meaningfully broken this cycle & therefore, we have to assume it's not possible. it bothers me.
It's trying to communicate the hard truth that you can never actually "defeat" your trauma. I didn't see it as a "GOTCHA!" But rather a recognition that in real life, you will always live with your trauma and there's not much you can do about it
Actually, the real problem with that second "don't watch it" comment is, how the hell are you supposed to know you don't like a movie _until_ you watch it?!
The comment applies to genres. I do not like Rom-Coms so I don't watch them, if I see a bad one... well I don't think I will even notice I did. The a 3/10 and 7/10 are the same to me.
@@lenorepoe4166 But it's still essentially throwing a tantrum because people have the nerve to support films that he personally doesn't like. It's still a pretty weird and unappealing take.
the whole message of the movie being "if you are sad or traumatised you can do nothing so you should just kill yourself alone so you dont fuck over anyone else" was... a choice.
Why do you think that was the entire, intentional message of the film to start with? Why do people have so much trouble distinguishing between something being portrayed in a piece of fiction, and that same something being endorsed by its author? Now I wanna show you Wages of Fear and see if the "whole message" you draw from it is "the director wants you to never, ever drive a truck again."
unfortunately, it would have been one thing for the story to show us an instance of someone surviving the trauma personified demon to show us that "all trauma is unable to be coped with and it will always kill you no matter what" Isn't the message at all, but the story didn't do that a single bit. Every single character we see that got infected and possessed by the demon died without exception, no matter how hard they try. As interesting as the "the protagonist is doomed from the start trope" can be if done correctly, the writers failed at it every step of the way, which is why i genuinely believe the story would have been better if the protagonist would have survived. Because if the protag would have survived, it would have proved that even though trauma Seems like it will kill you, it can still be coped with despite everything, but that's not what happened. Instead, we got a massive fakeout death ending, which if anything felt like a massive "fuck you for caring about the story". If the writers wanted to say that trauma is survivable, a character would have survived the demon.
@@WhiteTulip2002 also the Blair witch game they made, which also ends with the character offing themselves because I guess all ptsd-riddled war veterans turn into murderers? Also it had nothing to do with the Blair witch
I interpret “turning your brain off” as just asking me to view a film outside of the context of my personality and my experiences. I don’t know how somebody can do that. Unless they lack either personality or experiences.
@@katherineknapp3782 There’s no way it didn’t get started by some corporate plant looking to sway public opinion in shitty movies over the internet. Anti-intellectualism is at a high right now so even though it’s less of an issue than something like climate change denial or anti-vaccine sentiment i can see how it would work on a lot of people
It kinda jsut leads into people viewing movies as products and commodities instead of art, turning your brain off doesn’t let you enjoy the movie it lets you consume mindlessly without thinking of any greater themes the story might be trying to tell
@@katherineknapp3782 Well, when you engage with a piece of media, you are meant to set your own beliefs inside and meet with the story where it is. That being said, "turning your brain off" isn't meeting the story where it is, it's just _not engaging_ with the story. At that point, why are you even watching the film?
Someone who does turn their brain off when watching movies, here to provide some perspective. I think you can absolutely still appreciate a movie as art without deeply analyzing it, for me personally it’s more of a vibes thing. Like, I don’t know exactly what’s off about something, but I can tell it feels like a lazy cashgrab. However, if a movie actually feels good when I first watch it (and I like the movie) I’ll rewatch it and think more critically about it, looking for more things in it. Honestly there’s some movies and TV shows I’ve rewatched over 10 times just to catch things I missed. But that’s something I do when I am willing to invest time and energy into a piece of media. My brain is constantly over analyzing everything around me and does not shut up due to ADHD and several anxiety disorders. The best way to describe it to people who don’t experience it is just “I have my own personal backseating Twitch chat is constantly running in my brain”. So, sometimes, I don’t want to think critically about every piece of media I consume. However, Im also very picky with what movies I watch in the first place and usually don’t watch stuff I get that “this was made for money and not passion” vibe from. Sorry this was so long, just wanted to clarify why someone might prefer turning their brain off and also defend it a bit given the amount of “you’re not watching the movie the right way” comments I’ve seen here. Like, as an artist, if someone looked at piece of body horror vent art I made that was a very personal and detailed piece, I’m not gonna be offended if someone sees that and just thinks it looks cool. Now if the person that just thinks it looks cool argues that it has no deeper meaning or thought put into it then that’s a problem, but aside from that I don’t mind. Also (apologies for adding more), I don’t think putting all the blame on consumers is fair. The majority should be put on the companies that keep rolling this shit out and not the people watching it. I agree it’s easier to blame the consumer since that feels like something that can actually change, but the logic of “this person enjoying this cashgrab film is the reason film as an art form is dying” (movies being an example, this applies to other things) has led to individuals being blamed for corporate or societal problems. Anyways, if you’ve read this far then thanks for at the very least hearing me out even if you still disagree lmao.
The only impression this movie made on me was the ad campaign where they had weird smiling people sit behind home plate at baseball games so they were constantly on TV. This was scrapped when enough major league pitchers complained it was stupid to the point of distraction.
I thought that was really effectively creepy but to be honest they could have just pretended to do it and posted clips online all 'omg what's this at the game last night?' and it would have worked and not upset any pitchers.
The biggest issue with this movie is in my opinion one that you didn't even mention. We're supposed to be waiting for the big moment where the demon thing takes full control and makes the protagonist kill herself, but considering the birthday party scene, it's obvious that the demon is able to control her actions practically at the point of contraction, meaning that the struggle of the entire movie is pointless.
technically when she offs her cat the demon isnt controlling her she sees and feels herself as just wrapping presents the only thing the demon does at that point is changes her senses of sight and touch
Yeah. The cat thing for me I was certain was us being shown that there is room to question how physical the monster actually is- hinting to an ability in some form to affect the physical world. Hence her checking outside and coming back to the present box at the table, and the long time the cat was missing. We have so many opportunities for something physical and actually present to manipulate events. Smile 2, however, proved to me that this was not the author’s intent…
i have a feeling the "turn your brain off" crowd honestly think that something dubbed "entertainment" will always be a fun, easy watch because entertainment, to them, is simply fluff to pass the time that will make you feel good; and if it doesn't do that, it wasn't entertainment. even if someone from that crowd has a favorite film, book or show, i doubt they could articulate why they cherish it; if they can, they betrayed their own mantra since they had to turn their brain on to remember it.
The turn your brain off applies to like generic Netflix series where everything is presi and you keep it on because its popular and is just background noise so you can play on your phone. Thats all turn your brain off should be
As someone who generally keeps one foot in that crowd, here's my perspective. The only times I've ever told someone to "turn their brain off" is as a last resort when they just cannot handle any ambiguity and need everything wrapped up in a neat little package at the end or when they get WAY too caught up in details that aren't important because they weren't established as a determining factors to the story. And "entertainment" is a subjective term. For an example, Hereditary is one of my favorite movies - not just in horror, but in general. I found that movie very entertaining even though not a single thing in that movie was "fluff that made me feel good." I will describe as anything that keeps me invested in the story entertaining, regardless of the feelings it inflicts on me. Good or bad. I also find Smile "entertaining" even though I didn't like it... at all. Sometimes, I'm really only there to enjoy the story or the performances and I can appreciate what the director was going for even if it didn't land for me.
It's so frustrating that a movie about a 'trauma curse' sets it up so that the only way you could conceivably not spread the curse on is by doing the opposite of what someone suffering a mental breakdown should do.
The primary discomfiting drive of the movie (at least to me) was watching the entity deliberately manipulate the protagonist in order to isolate her from anyone who could actually help. It deprived her of sleep, it played with her perception of reality, and expertly frayed her every nerve until, finally, she decides that the only "logical" thing to do is to push everyone away and end it all somewhere isolated so that the thing can't spread to anyone else. I always felt that this being an obviously terrible idea that plays directly into the entity's metaphysical hands is kinda the whole point.
@@MistaZULE That's what it wants you to think--the entity wouldn't have gotten as far as it has if it were that easy to take out, and was likely banking on at least one person who cared about Rose to come and check on her regardless. Even if it guessed wrong, it spreads through *trauma*, not necessarily the trauma of seeing its host shuffle loose this mortal coil. For all we know it could be able to lie dormant until someone stumbles across the body.
@@filthymcnasty7960 aren't you just adding extra information to the logic of the monster? Rose gets the trauma demon curse because her patient unalived herself in front of her so she chose to unalive herself away from anyone that could find her. if that isn't the logic of the monster, then the movie did a terrible job of explaining the rules of the curse.
@@filthymcnasty7960 You're forgetting the fact that while that may be what the entity wants, it's still a really shitty message to put in your film. And THAT is why Smile fails.
I enjoyed Smile, but mostly as a popcorn movie. The beats were predictable. As soon as they couldn't find the cat, my friend and I turned to one another with one eyebrow raised and said, "The cat's dead." When the party scene began, we turned to one another again and my friend said, "Cat's in the box."
I watched it at a small new year's party at the very end of the night when we were all drunk and VERY tired. I enjoyed it enough at the time, but as soon as I thought about it again later sober and realized it is..... not very good lol
I watched this movie with my family, and halfway through I started playing live studio reaction sound effects, and playing Seinfeld transition music. And me and my family had a 5 star comedy experience.
Something thay angers me a lot about this movie is that the car jumpscare with the long neck smiling woman is almost 1:1 copied from the 2018 argentinian film Aterrados, and its absolutely done better in that film than in smile
@@PeiceofNick the clip is here in TH-cam, tho I'd fully recommend you watch the entire film cause it makes more sense with the entire context of what's happening and a pretty solid horror movie thats an interesting take on ghost hauntings
And Romeo and Juliet is cribbed directly from a Philip Marlowe play. But why should anybody care?! What's wrong with an homage, or borrowing a single shot from a film with a totally different plot, characters, and setting?! I think you're looking for a "foolish consistency" here, in the name of a fake originality that doesn't really need to exist.
I have friends who have fallen asleep during 2001: A Space Oddity and I fell asleep during a film-school showing of Citizen Kane once, so that's kind of a stupid criterion for a bad movie, sorry.
finally, a reviewer who points out the way she acts given that she’s a therapist. with her training as a mental health professional, how didn’t she think the extreme way she was acting was going to give those around her good reason to believe she was going crazy and becoming dangerous, especially at the hospital? i’d love to know a therapist’s opinion about the movie and what they’d do differently if they found themselves in the protagonist’s situation
You can logically understand a situation until you find yourself trapped within that same situation. People become desperate and irrational no matter what their profession is. Therapists and doctors are still human and make choices that don't benefit themselves. Already at the start of the film you can see she's a workaholic and not taking care of herself. Her sister wants her to get rid of the house they grew up in, but she's been refusing. She stopped seeing her own therapist quite some time ago and clearly that hasn't done much for her mental health. She hasn't taken care of her trauma and works 80 hour weeks against her better judgement. These are all things that happen to people in real life, even without the curse. The idea that people expect horror film characters to behave with a level of rationality or hindsight that you yourself wouldn't have in real life is an oxymoron. People obsess too much over the "what would I do if I was in this situation" not realizing their level of dramatic irony and hindsight they have being an observer of a story.
It's such a small thing, but I thought that red corded phone she uses during the patient freakout was actually hilarious. Irl employees on a psych unit have this life alert style button they carry at all times. Also how she got so spooked at a catatonic man on a PSYCH UNIT. Overall it was like watching a therapist on her first day in 1962.
What's funny is I remembered going into this film thinking the entity was going to be a metaphor on toxic positivity, and how society tries to trivialise trauma instead of helping those who need it... Seems even that was apparently too high brow to ask instead of just doing OOOOOOH EVIL SMILES SO DISTURBING OOOOH, put that shit on a poster.
Ok but that’s actually a good idea for a metaphor. A smiling entity that’s whole goal is to snuff out people who can’t just be happy is such a good horror metaphor for the failures of our mental healthcare systems. If you can’t survive these arbitrary and ridiculous rules then you don’t deserve the help, or in this extreme case the ability to live. Make the monster believe it’s an angel or some divine thing sent to help cure the world to help add to it’s delusion, and boom you have a good premise that doesn’t shit on people with trauma.
Smile was so vapid and unimpactful that my husband and I forgot we watched it, saw it on one of our streaming services and thought we hadn't seen it yet, so we watched it again.
Someone mentioned in Smile 2 that it seems like the smiling entity freezes the victim in place to force them to watch their previous victim die so the curse will pass. That could explain why Rose doesn't do anything when Laura is in danger towards the beginning. That doesn't excuse all the other issues or that the movie doesn't try to explain the freezing thing at all.
Even without this caveat the "deer in headlights" thing happens to people. People become frozen and shocked and dazed and don't know what to do. This happens in real life, I don't know why people complain about it happening in fiction.
I was unnerved by the movie, because it ends on the "you will never overcome trauma" message. Then about a week after I watched it, my friend and I went to see Prey for the Devil, which is also quite mediocre, but the fact that it ended on a happy note, with a premise also about trauma, made me enjoy it a lot more. If you're gonna have a hopeless ending, you need to pick the right metaphor.
As someone who has experienced things similar to what happens in the movie and have been told I have a creepy ass smile all my life, this film seems like it was written by a nine year old who thought edgy meant good. It legitimately felt like a group of young children trying to scare each other around a campfire using stories they heard from slightly older children "they opened the gift... AND IT WAS A DEAD CAT!!!!" "...but the scariest part was, SHE was smiling too" shit like that is the entire movie
@@NB-gu9rs Not inconsistent really, when you're sitting there waiting for something to happen, what it amounts to is that you're bored. There was less happening in Skinamarink, and yet he wasn't bored.
@@NB-gu9rs "You said pineapple on puzza is disgusting. But here you are EATING PINEAPPLE FLAVORED CANDY? Your food reviews are so inconsistent, i cant wait to make an itemized list". Get it ..? You can use one thing in two ways, and one can be good and one can be bad. Not all movies where he is "waiting for something to happen" are the same. One might be pineapple pizza, and one might be pineapple candy. GET IT??
I hated Smile. I'm so sick of horror movies revealing some boring monster at the end. Especially when the whole thing is meant to be about trauma, we don't need some dumb monster to be afraid of. If they had just taken the time to refine the story and treat it with more subtlety, it might have been better.
@@pringlebatchnope it's suppressed grief THAT is the monster....it's not somehow separate and it's not a REAL actual monster. Wowza can any of you not grasp metaphor and symbolism?!? This comes down to a general public who doesn't read anymore. Or if they do it's vapid shite books.
If you want to be real about it, the monster is meant to be a demon of trauma/grief or something along those lines. And, typically demons look like humans. Maybe not the most stylized design, but an intentional one.
See, I always just avoided Smile because it seemed like 1) cheap jumpscare horror, and 2) gross-out horror in psychological horror's clothing. But damn, this is worse.
Thank you for this criticism. I saw this movie at the wrong time in my life, when I was going through a mental health crisis myself and, I did not like the message at the end, it wasn’t just, “the monster wins.” Wrong. It’s not about that, it’s about the main character being gaslit by her fiancé, and how she didn’t escape what happened to her mother. I didn’t like that, but I did think the curse aspect was interesting in the development of the plot. I don’t care for how they portrayed mental health, this could’ve been done better but, once more, it’s handled poorly in its delivery. Thank you for your sharp critique, it’s refreshing.
It’s not that the protagonist didn’t win. It’s that the delivery was tasteless. A lesson at the end of a movie about offing yourself that amounts to:”there’s nothing you can do and you’ll only worsen the lives of people around you & k!ll yourself” is so irresponsible and cold to anyone who actually does have mental health issues
@@Montoni-sy7uz There's no lesson. For gods' sake people. The movie isn't a statement. For all this talk I read here about 'stupid people not wanting to anylize movies, and eating them up as they are served' - the people that are analyzing it seem as actually the personification of 'Media Literacy is Dead.' Look, having bad shit in the movie or presenting poor dealing with said shit doesn’t endorse it! Movies CAN teach things, but that's not their main job. The main job is to present an idea. And Smile did present the idea. It stuck to it till the very end. The idea is awful. Or rather presents awful stuff. Doesn't mean that it now has a message to You that: "This is how it really is. No cup. Trust me. Oh, and fighting with Mental Illnesses is useless, better off Yourself now." At no point in the movie, did it try to paint this as the right idea for Our real world. Our real life. It was self-contained. It was about a poor lass that went through the worst shit possible, and instead of it getting better for her, it ended even worse. The end. Very sad, upsetting and awful. It trully is. But such scenarios happen. The "it was bad, it is bad and it ends bad". That was what the movie presented. The idea it went with. The awful idea to think about, not to teach about. You can react to it however You want, that's what fiction is for. Just please, don't go around telling people online You want movies to be teaching You. No movie should ever teach as its main premise. It should introduce the idea and then welcome thinking and contemplating said idea. Judging it on Your Own
@Montoni-sy7uz I find that far too many people look for morals or lessons at the end of stories. Stories can just be stories, meant to portray certain ideas. The horror of the smile curse comes from its inevitability, the lack of control it gives you and how that parallels what it feels like in real life to suffer from mental illness. The way things feel hopeless. The way people treat her compounds onto her distress because she never really had an established support system, even pushing away the one guy who was willing to help her.
As someone who initially enjoyed the movie on my first watch and has mental health issues this was very interesting to hear. On my first watch while some stuff definitely came off as really dumb like the trailer spoiling scares or the therapist not trying to stop her patient from killing herself, I just saw a lot of what I was dealing with at the time. Friends and family not taking me seriously, traumatic memories playing over and over in my head. I agree that the first final design of the monster was just lame and ugly but when it peeled it’s skin it just gave me the implication that it’s made up of its past victims and being a practical effect just made it even scarier. My interpretation of the ending was more of a cautionary tale than telling people there’s no escaping their demons since she becomes so isolated throughout the movie. “Reach out to your friends and family, seek help” (not that her situation is meant to represent everyones, after all her support system is written to be self centred as opposed to encouraging her to fight this thing) but I think your point on it telling people that there’s no hope still stands. If horror is meant to represent our societal fears I think it makes sense to have a movie that touches on mental health and what happens when we try to ignore whatever we’re dealing with but if the ending tells someone who’s struggling that the monster is right? Then we need a movie that tackles this subject matter with more care.
The crucial difference between Rose (Smile) and Hannah Baker (Thirteen Reasons Why), is Hannah is a teenager and a newcomer to the town - it makes sense she's an arsehole, often makes poor decisions, and often doesn't know where to turn, since she has no network. That's quite different to an adult therapist with nearby family, friends and lovers.
It is genuinely crazy to me how many people have made video essays calling it a masterpiece and similar things when it's a movie with an ending that amounts to, "if you have trauma, it doesn't get better no matter what you do + kill yourself." I felt insane. The one thing I do think this movie did incredibly well is at the end when we see the monster's form without skin, it's done with practical effects. I think the design is cool with it looking like it's many bodies inside of each other like a matryoshka doll, and it would have been really fantastic in a better movie. I also just always want to praise practical effects since a lot of movies skip out on them now and ultimately make a worse product for it. That said, the cool thing is on scene for a few seconds and the movie is an hour and 55 minutes, so it really does not make it worth watching
@@NB-gu9rs This comment really feels like projection. Yeah, I think other people's subjective opinions on this movie are crazy. I made a comment about it and what? You're so aghast by my comment about my subjective opinion, you think I've just discovered different people have different thoughts? Come on girlypop. Get well soon
I'll agree that the movie as a whole is pretty mid and that the practical effects of the entity's true form were dope, but I have a diverging interpretation of the ending. The way I saw it, Rose never actually *dealt with* her trauma, instead sidestepping the issue to focus on the monster. Her defiant declaration of having control of her own mind is further proof of how deeply she's internalized the trite "it's all in your head" narrative that she and other incompetent therapists (real or otherwise) push, and the ending fakeout the creature pulls to show her the futility of this ends up causing her final mental break that allows it to win.
Does people watch horror movie for a moral and something positive to say ? I don't get the point where people say that the movie provides a bad message about trauma, yeah, obviously, the point of horror movie is to be unsettling I don't say it to praised for movie, it's quite mid. I liked the ending with the monster and the backstory as much that I totally forgot the cringy smiling face I just find that weird that morals, is in so many critics about the movies since I don't watch horror movie to have a good healthy depiction of something
I’ve enjoyed a lot of your takes on this movie, but some of the takes on the mental health profession are maybe misinformed. A lot of hospitals would not advise a doctor of any kind to approach a patient with a weapon. You’re usually trained to call for help or security if a patient is going to harm themselves or you. At the hospital I work at, there is an alarm on the wall you press, having it be a phone is weird. And it’s weird that they’re in a break like room and not an actual evaluation room where there would absolutely not be anything that could be used as a weapon. It’s also somewhat unclear how far into her profession rose is, so her freezing up could have had more weight if they clarified she was in med school still or this is her first job where she’s actually treating patients alone. As far as her therapist coming to see her, that is completely normal. It would be a lot more unprofessional/dangerous if she was just given medication based on what her husband stated instead of being evaluated in person. I actually think having a mental health professional be the main character could have been interesting if the story was better. Mental health professionals aren’t perfect people, and a lot of them get into the profession because they have suffered themselves and want to spare others.
21:40 I agree! But at least Hannah was a teenager, so I could see someone getting behind her dumb decisions due to immaturity. But in Smile, there is no such excuse.
I think the worst thing is they could've EASILY made this movie about generational trauma by giving it a way better ending. Asshole characters and unnecessary, foreseeable and gratuitous animal violence aside, this movie has moments that are interesting and then does nothing with them. As it is, the movie is not only about not being able to outrun trauma but also about not helping mentally ill people. Mr. Policeman is the only one getting burned (aside from Rose - ayo), the only one trying to help her. Her sister Holly is cartoonish levels of evil and narcissistic. She left her little sister with their obviously not well mother, not bothering to look back, resulting in her sister being traumatized and her mother dying. As soon as her sister starts exhibiting similar symptoms, she pushes her away, talking about protecting her family. Bitch that's your SISTER. Holly is basically saying 'You're going to die and I neither care nor am going to call somebody to help you.' What if, and hear me out, Rose killed Holly? There is way to survive the curse as mentioned in the movie: Make someone watch you kill someone and traumatize them to pass on the curse. And then it just gets kind of dropped. The movie could have ended with Rose driving to her sisters place to get to the root of her trauma. Her sister, of course, doesn't like that, but not giving up an opportunity to drag Rose through the mud, relents. They talk, starting of normal but getting louder and more frustrated as they start throwing out accusations. One shoves the other, they don't know who started it but they start to tussle. Holly hits her head and lays on the ground dazed and either trough desperation, anger or the curse taunting her trough her sister, Rose bludgeons Holly to death. The camera turns to show Holly's son watching. (You could even throw in the horror movie staple of 'Mom?'). Rose sits on her dead sisters torso, bloody, looking on in disbelief. No music, no ambiance, just her heavy breathing. Cut to black. (You could once again change it to the generic 'screaming with echo cut to black' ending.) This would change the entire message of the movie. Rose never got the closure she needed, resulting in her resenting her sister and blowing up. Holly, trying to outrun her own trauma by throwing everyone else under the bus, pays the price with her life while passing the curse of their trauma - get it? - onto her son. The message would be that trauma can't be outrun so you're fucked, but more along the lines of 'If it can't be outrun, you need to confront it.'
I'm really tired of the stereotypical use of mental illness in horror movies. It's just insulting to me and people who actually struggle with mental illness. Like, whatever is going on in my mind is definitely scarier for me than it is for you!! It just feels like an attempt to make mentally ill people into a scary, malicious "other". It's dehumanizing and disrespectful.
I enjoyed Scream VI more than Smile. Give me a formulaic played out slasher over this, at least I know Ghostface won't use outdated mental illness tropes in 2024.
Honestly seeing the Internet praising it after watching Jack Saint's video and this just upsetting me more, how could they be so blind to its tone deafness?
Because not everyone, not even a majority of people sit down to watch a movie with a note book a bubble pipe and enough pretensions to cause hernias. You know what I took away from the film? That’s a way that evil can spread that I’ve never heard of before. This demon plays by rules that I’m not privy to. I wonder where it came from. What force from hell may have been it’s origin. I have self game over urges. I think watching a movie and coming to the conclusion the author says “trauma can not be escaped commit self die” just reeks of people looking to be angry about something
@@yayisnotasinger You don't have to look too deep in to the movie. In this case, its just not a very good movie. Its boring, its trite and it has no idea what its message is supposed to be. On a bit of an unrelated note, a big step toward accepting, treating and overcoming certain things is to call them what they are and not mask it in cute nicknames. I won't say the word here out of respect, but "self game over" and "self die" are truly self-defeating phrases when trying to tackle an issue and honestly take more effort to come up with than just saying it.
@@Sisren86 sure you can call it cute. But you’re either being willingly ignorant or you’re just foolish if you think the actual phrase won’t get my comment filtered or deleted.
@@Sisren86 I don’t make the rules. If I say the actual phrase my comment is deleted. Happened trying to respond to you, here’s my second attempt at making TH-cam not delete my comment
For sure, and it makes sense to a certain degree. Like, of course, watching someone hurt themselves would bring back memories of Rose's mom. But she's supposed to have gone through specific training and equipped for emergency situations. Which is why watching her not do anything feels frustrating. I still think it's a nice parallel to her not acting to save her mom either.
"You can't judge a book by it's cover" Except when the cover gives you a summary of most of the story and plot twists the book has before you open the damn thing.
For me, the movie felt like one of the "edgy horror stories" that kids would tell at summer camp when i was like 12. Like the whole movie all i hear is some kid trying their best to make the next creepypasta.
I heard something about it being an "allegory" for trauma and I thought "Oh, so it's a 'how do people put on a smile in the face of this crushing existential doom' kinda deal. That's...kind of on the nose, isn't it?" But apparently it's not even that level of "clever".
I absolutely HATE the criticism of "why was she just standing there doing nothing??" Because that is a trauma response! Everyone talks about "fight or flight" but it's really "fight, flight, friend, or freeze." Freezing as a trauma response may be what kept me alive when I was robbed as a cashier at a convenience store. Because of the fact that I could barely move or respond to the robbers, I wasn't able to tell them where the extra cigarettes were, which got them out of the store faster, which meant that they could leave before the cops got there, which meant that it didn't turn into a crazy hostage/stand-off situation. Freezing has also hurt me in other scary situations, so I'm not saying that it's a perfect response, but it absolutely is a way that people respond to terrifying situations
The problem there is that she is a medical professional who should be a lot more used to situations like this where a patient is acting violently. Obviously medical professionals can feel fear, but they have protocols they follow so probably wouldn't feel as scared as someone getting robbed.
@Ianmccullochsplinky you don't know how you'll react until you're in it. I was robbed. I was also trained on what to do if I was robbed. When it happened, my mind was blank. Psychiatrists aren't gods just because they have training
I didn’t think Laura was forced, because insomnia induced psychosis (something I’ve experienced) is extremely dramatic, over the top emotional and dis regulated.
Exactly.. Insomnia combined with seeing horrifying images for days and constantly not being believed would make someone act on edge and extremely emotional. That immediately made me view this critique as smarmy and "If you like something that I don't, you're not smart like me."
People merely disagreeing with your opinion of a film makes you sad, because you think your feelings about it are objectively correct and you take offense at other people having other things they enjoy about it? That makes me sad. And disappointed. And a little smirky, because that's not a very sophisticated perspective.
Moral of the story: Trauma and Mental illness is inescapable, inevitable, and there is no cure Jokes aside, I actually liked this movie. I think it actually shows great depth on how one may feel going through psychosis as we're taken on a first person delusional journey in which I'm wondering if that's all real or if that really was all just the main characters delusional state full of hallucinations. We see a character talk about how this is real and can't be happening to them because they're so smart, educated, and successful- but at the end of the day mental illness can happen to anyone. I don’t think the message is quite ‘psychosis is an unstoppable disease’ as I believed it was more about ‘without seeking help it is’. I believed what killed the woman was that she never opened up. She never told anyone about her trauma and real life struggles fully. At least I assumed that’s what they were going for, the fact she never opened up fully and got help and closure being the protagonists downfall. However, this is likely my incredible bias towards the movie. I was going through some rough episodes of psychosis at the time of my life that this movie came out. My largest fear was completely losing grip on reality to an extent showcased in this movie. I guess I felt better figuring that opening up was the best way to get help and move forward since that worked well enough for me
Thank you so much for this video. I agree so much and as a horror fiend, it really disappoints me that people ~still~ discount horror movies as stupid and bad, period. When people lost it over how good they thought this movie was, I was like, “Why? It’s fine, but it’s not amazing or anything…” Every time they take a short film that’s a decent idea or that’s actually executed reasonably well, and they stretch it into a full movie, it KILLS me. Working as a short doesn’t translate to working as a movie inherently.
Dude I am so glad that someone agrees that this movie is trash. Everyone I’ve talked to about it seemed to at least like it, but as someone who has experienced deep episodes of depression and anxiety, this just fell so flat for me. The only part that got a genuine reaction out of me was the scene with the cat and only because I felt bad for THE CAT. I covered my eyes for that scene because it made me nauseous.
smile made me mad the first time i watched it, too. i have lot of qualms with its premise, which is basically that, ‘ooo mentally ill people are scary and surrounded by demons.’ it’s just SO insulting as someone who actually IS mentally ill and has struggled with it my entire life. at this point, though, it’s such a common trope in mainstream horror films that it’s almost impossible to escape. i’ve gotten to the point in life where the best thing i can do for my own sanity is laugh about it. like yes, smile is BAD. but the second time i watched it, it sure as hell entertained me. i laughed through all the same parts you did. the characters were so insufferable that by the end of the movie, i was rooting for the demon. with regards to the demon itself, i was actually thrilled with the creature design! the main reason i watched it again is because i didn’t finish it the first time and never got to see the demon after it sheds its human ‘costume’. you didn’t touch on this at all while discussing the film’s ending which was little disappointing because i think it’s legitimately one of the movie’s VERY few saving graces. maybe it’s because i’m an artist myself, but i grew up on horror movies that used practical sfx almost exclusively, and it’s given me a serious appreciation for production teams that go out of their way to create monsters like the one in smile instead of resorting to bad, soulless cgi-something you did talk about regarding the original short film. i thought it was creepy as hell and reminiscent of the creature design we see in a lot of analog horror here on YT. in the end, it probably all comes down to personal sensibilities. the first time i watched smile, i was unable to enjoy it at all. i think that had to do with where i was in life at the time. now i’m in a different place and find value in laughing at comically bad movies that take themselves so seriously. clearly, you’re the kind of person who places high value on artistic integrity and that’s a good thing! i hate that the film industry doesn’t take horror seriously at all, too. it’s such a shame because there’s so much masterfully made horror out there that doesn’t get the recognition it deserves! i’m interested to know what your horror favorites are! liked and subscribed.
SPOILER ALERT! I have yet to sit down and watch the film fully, so I am 100% biased and will readily admit that, but I went through the entire synopsis in great detail. I’m also someone with mental health complications myself, so I’m unfairly biased there too. This is simply not my movie, but I’m going to be annoying and run my mouth anyway. They do two things I think are done to death: kill an animal just for the sake of “OH MY GOOOSH YOU MUST BE INSANE YOU MURDERED A SMALL CUTE INNOCENT ANIMAL” which…listen, I get that the demon is meant to isolate you from everyone, and does that by taking advantage of psychotic/antisocial behavior it makes you do, and the fact that people *will* run away rather than help…but REALLY??? And… it’s a downer ending. Which, considering the whole mental health theme and the fact that it’s aiming for realism…really doesn’t send the best message. Like “you can try to confront your trauma, but you’ll still probably traumatize all your loved ones in the process, and will never be the same at best, and maybe off yourself at the worst”. Like…thanks, movie. Tell me something I don’t know.
Does it need to send a good message though? Like its a horror movie (I'm not saying it's a good one, I think it sucks too there's like one really good shot at the end where the thing eats her but other than that it's ass) but people complaining that it's a poor portrayal of psychosis or whatever like... yeah of course it is this is a not very well made horror film? It doesn't need a happy ending, it doesn't need an accurate portrayal of schizophrenia, whatever. Media should be able to portray things in a variety of lights, not just positive ones. Obviously if the media is then good is a completely separate issue but I think it's annoying when people say something is bad purely because of the way it chooses to portray a mental illness: sometimes people do slip through the cracks and have "bad endings" yknow? I don't think it's bad to have a movie be like "yeah, psychosis is scary and sometimes people with trauma can't overcome it" because that is a factual statement lol
@@wehehehehe-k3gI mean, it's one thing to have a horror movie with a gloomy ending, but telling people that its better to avoid bothering your friends and family because you'd be a burden to them is fucked up in a way that goes further than "oh the main character died" into bad advice being spewed at the audience.
@@malachiluna9777 but is it the movie's responsibility to assume you don't know that isolating yourself is bad? Does the director need to premeditate what kinds of people their movie might reach, and what those people might know about psychology?
@@wehehehehe-k3g I mean, I presume if the director is releasing it to an audience, they'd have to expect that they're reaching an audience, right? Currently, I have no reason to assume that the director believes that isolation is bad in the first place, given what's in the movie.
@@malachiluna9777 can you not fathom the idea that a person might willingly want to portray a negative choice or way of navigating a horrible situation like what is presented in smile? Why is it so important that it needs a happy ending with accurate and responsible use of therapy/coping mechanisms? Rose's support system sucks and was written to be that way, just like how in real life some people slip through the cracks and succumb to trauma for a variety of reasons.
I watched Smile, and felt it was almost tolerable. But for me, and my enjoyment of Horror, the films are a vehicle for dope ass creature/monster designs. The Thing is one of my favorites because its good for a story and has amazing monster designs and effects. So the horrible film gave me a few seconds of pretty interesting creature design. Still too long.
Ngl I liked this movie, but that could be bc I don’t usually watch a lot of horror movies. Maybe I’m just jaded by all the “based on a _true story_ ” demon possession movies and literally any sort of original concept was enough for my approval.
Nah ur right it's a fun movie. This guy is just a cringe hyperbolic redditor. He thinks every movie that doesn't have a super deep meaning under 400 layers of boring crap, is a sin against nature.
I think a lot of the criticisms you gave were of pretty small nitpicky things which weaken your argument whereas the ending of the movie and the themes deserve so much more criticism. I was just as mad when I finished the movie and honestly The Haunting of Hill House made similar commentary on trauma, mental illness, and suicide but did it a billion times better. I think Smile was trying to say Rose died because she didn't reach out to anyone after her mom died, pretended everything was fine, and didn't have a good support system, but it didn't exaggerate that point enough for it to make sense and we aren't shown that, just told. After the monster infected her she sought therapy, she reached out to everyone in her life, she had her cop friend who listened to her, confronted her trauma, and still having her die in the end makes it seem like the filmmakers are trying to say she deserved it. I think they were trying to discourage secluding yourself while having suicidal thoughts but the monster's mechanics give her no other option of beating it without putting others in danger. Making the monster an allegory for trauma and mental health issues and then having the only possible way to beat it by hurting others or secluding yourself forever just doesn't work.
To make the interpretation that the filmmakers were saying she deserved it is missing the point. Similarly, you mention how these points weren't "exaggerated" enough to make sense, but you still caught on to them. Things don't need to be straight up said in your face for them to make sense. We understand these details by watching how characters behave and interact with one another and the language they use. It's evident in the way Rose and her therapist talk about mental health vs people outside of the field do. People in real life are not respectful and generally not educated on these topics. Even without the curse, Rose was in a bad place. And it's also made clear that the curse specifically seeks out people who have already experienced intense trauma so that it can have more to torment them with. Smile itself isn't making the argument that Rose deserved her end or that there is no hope in the face of mental illness. It's just displaying what it feels like to have things go out of control and your family and friends, while well meaning, might not understand you and do things that harm you further. It's a character study on dread and hopelessness.
The first movie was okay. It had some pieces that felt odd, and some of the horror felt too abrupt. They also set themself up by trying to make a movie about smiling, in an age where 26 year olds use the word "rizz". It's an actually hard thing to do right. The second movie on the other hand that went extra hard into the psychological horror. A good watch, and actually scared me. Another reason i think the second movie is actually good, bring up your point about how they never use "what's real or not", they do that so well. They also use the time much better. Also pro tip. STOP WATCHING TRAILERS. It's stupid. Also, to say it's the worst watching experience really shows your inner fantano.
i am of the opinion that in a purely practical sense, i know how to beat the smile thing. you get a friend you know you can trust, whom you also have another mutual friend with. you get a bunch of stuff for practical effects, and you take your trusted friend and your secondary friend on a trip to the woods, somewhere isolated. on the way, you and your trusted friend start bickering in front of your secondary friend. small things at first, and then, at the isolated location, you get in a big fight. by this point, you have a blood packet on your neck and your friend has grabbed a knife. they stab you, you fall on the floor, fake blood everywhere, blaaah, dead. you need to sell this. so if this thing passes from person to person by witnessing death (iirc the only man who’d ever survived it had murdered someone in front of a third party), then effectively your secondary friend has witnessed a murder. they’re terrified, and the demon jumps to them. then you get back up, tell them it’s fine, explain everything, and then they’re not traumatized anymore. a little weirded out, probably, but no one’s dead. anyway now the demon has nowhere to go no takes backsies xoxo now it’s gone forever
watched this movie with my girlfriend in theaters, shit was STUPID. my least favorite part was the sobbing breakdown i had when they showed the cat at the party scene, im a major cat person and them being subjected to any kind of violence is highly triggering.
Not really relevant to this movie but I swear sm people are unempathetic to cats especially in movies. Like scenes of cats dying will be played for laughs whereas dogs dying are known for making people cry
Therapists can't prescribe medication. However, the therapist was extremely unethical for ambushing the main character with her bf, and she could have referred her to see a psychiatrist at least.
11:52 so glad you pointed out how fucking stupid this scene is. I wanted to like the movie up until that point but I literally had to pause to laugh my ass off & couldn't get back into it at all for the rest of the runtime 😂
Hi Connor, you said something in this that I think was really uncalled for. Critisize something you don't like by all means, but why be condescending and mean about it? I don't say this to defend this movie, but it did scare me. I have very little experience watching horror, so I haven't had the opportunity to get bored by or resistant to these horror tropes. Some people out there, like me, just have a different tolerance and proclivity to fear, that doesn't make me a 7 year old or immature, not sure what you were going for with this comment
i feel like there was a point of the film u missed, its not about being traumatized and suicide being the only option, its about how u shouldnt deal with trauma yourself, the whole thing is that she went to deal with it alone and it ended badly
Maybe that’s what they were going for but if so they completely failed, throughout the whole story her trying actively to talk to others and get help is rejected and she is treated horribly by those who should be helping her, which ends up sending the message that reaching out for help will lead to you being hurt further
@@chairly It should also be taken to be understood as what happens when you ignore people in crisis. You can tell by the language her and her therapist use about mental health vs how people elsewhere talk about it, there's a level of disconnect in understanding how to actually deal with it. People are uneducated on these topics and thus reject people who look for help from them, leading to their further isolation.
I suggested to my friends that we go and see this movie when it came out because I had recently rediscovered my love of horror media. I hadn’t seen any trailers, just noticed that it was a horror movie, and was excited to see one in theatres. I genuinely believe the car window jumpscare was amazingly done. You know the main character is very very deep into her own fears but at that point I still believed at least her sister would pull through for her. Watching her walk back down the path to her car and tapping the window actually made me feel relieved, and the jumpscare was very well done and looked good. Then, the shot right after, of the main character sitting in her car, crying to herself, really showed exactly how alone she was. The camera is above her and far away, really effectively making her seem aloof and isolated. It’s a real shame the rest of the movie was just not good at all because that whole scene was so good. Like I really want people to see that scene (not just out of context in a trailer) but I cannot recommend anyone actually watch the movie.
I think the part that frustrated me the most was the fact that the mc and her ex boyfriend essentially researched this entity as much as they could and knew what caused someone to get the curse and what you had to do to avoid it, and YET the boyfriend still stared DIRECTLY AT HER while she burned herself alive. Made me think he simply wanted to die atp.
Unless you left it out - and that seems extremely unlikely - there is no excuse for casting a bunch of identical-looking people with the same hair color and style unless identity, doppelgängers, family resemblance, how society promotes bland conformity, etc., are themes being developed. If all of your perfect actors happen to look the same, here are some easy things you can do: 1. Wigs/dyeing/haircut/styling, 2. Glasses, 3. Subtly Color-coding their clothes, 4. Giving them distinctive clothing styles, 5. Regional accents and oh, yeah, 6. writing well.
When I showed my mom this movie and by the way, is a psychiatric hospital, she immediately saw how well this movie shows mental disorders or something and was genuinely impressed. Its not that the movie is long or "dumb" its that you didn't understand what the movie was supposed to show on a way smaller scale
I've only seen the second one and it shook me to my core. I think you might like that more because it is just better in nearly every aspect from what I've heard.
The way this video starts is funny to me because yes, turning your brain off will make you miss the subtleties, which is exactly why many people do it. I don’t (most of the time). But lots of people just want to watch it and enjoy it at a purely surface level, they couldn’t care less about the themes or character development. Which to be fair, is OK. People are allowed to enjoy media however they want. And some stories are built for an audience like that. Some stories mostly exist for cool fight scenes and don’t really focus on writing deep characters because the audience doesn’t care. They just want to see cool fight scenes, and that’s it. Heck, sometimes you know something isn’t objectively good, but you still unironically enjoy it, and to some extent that does involve turning your brain off just enough to not let the downsides bother you that much. The real problem arises when people tell you that you should turn your brain off. I’m not going to tell you to turn your brain on, so don’t tell me to turn mine off.
Generally I think they were saying that since Rose was a therapist she should probably know how to communicate well with? Others, since acting even when fearful would be part of her job
@@gummywormee41 maybe her being a therapist highlights how much she wanted to fix/indulge in other people's problems/trauma rather than focus on the very big overlooked problem she has herself
I'm a Smile defender sorry 🫡 the jumpscary nature doesnt ruin movies for me typically, & the plot didnt bother me, I actually felt I resonated with it & the characters at some points. It also played on my biggest fear, that being things imitating people. That's my favorite favorite FAVORITE part of horror & it is not utilized well typically... except for in Smile. There's just something about it that catches me off-guard & unsettles me greatly. I thought the opening scene was extremely captivating & the 3rd act... genuinely the most scared I've been during a movie since Hereditary. I felt so claustrophobic bc of how close the shots of monstrosity were framed. I loved how Sosie portrayed Rose. To me, she was quite believeable & her fear & trauma levels were tangible. Overall, it just struck the perfect nerve for me. That combined with the creepy, unique soundtrack & great cinematography are just a chef's kiss from me. It was my perfect cup of tea! I can completely understand people not enjoying Smile, though. My opinion is probably super controversial bc I didn't enjoy It Follows 🤷♀️ I'll probably give it another shot, though :)
Smile is what happens when you want to use mental health as a *prop* for the scares, not because you actually want to talk about how scary being mentally ill or traumatized is and can be, care more about the metaphor than anything else in the movie, and you have so little trust in the intelligence of the audience to understand that metaphor that you feel the need to hold their hand and walk them through it. The theme of trauma and mental illness can be done well, especially in horror and suspense, but you have to pick exactly which mental illness you want to cover, not just lump it all under "crazy", then do intense research on that specific diagnosis and actually listen to people who live with it because the more accurate it is the more realistic, and sometimes the realistic depiction is scarier than anything in fiction. I even like the idea of the representation of these things smiling because after, or even sometimes as we're going through traumatic events and experiences or when mental health is declining, a lot of people will still smile to put on a brave face to hide their pain for various reasons, something people don't notice because its something we associate with being happy or okay, we see people do every day on the street, even as a courteous acknowledgement of others as we pass each other by, so we never know truly if it's a genuine smile or someone hiding their struggle, and an exaggerated impression of Willam Defoe if he played The Joker makes it too obvious, too goofy looking, and makes me giggle because all I can think of is that "we live in a society" line. Using a metaphor, even a universal one like mental health and trauma, isn't enough to make a horror movie good, or even interesting, and using it badly just leaves the audience with nothing. Smile, quite frankly, annoyed me as a writer, a movie goer, a psych student, and as a person who struggles with the central themes the whole movie is supposed to be about.
You and I clearly have different thresholds for what amount of camp is acceptable in an otherwise serious horror movie. I agree that the birthday scene was too dramatic and too cookie cutter, but other scenes you were critical of I thought were good.
"Maybe you could enjoy the movie if you stopped analyzing it" is such a weird comment. Analyzing a good story only makes it better, because then you experience both the emotions the story is meant to trigger AND the admiration of seeing a sophisticated well-tuned mechanism run.
As some who has been through what this movie is I believe is attempting to depict (ie, suicidal ideation, the hopelessness that leads to ending one’s life), this movie really affected me. Like, panic attack in the parking lot affected. The points that were made on Rose not communicating her issues to her loved ones can happen. The people around her just writing her off as crazy can happen. Her isolating herself in the cabin waiting for the pain to stop can happen. Now, I’m not saying that I am the spokesperson of people that have felt this way, nor am I saying my experience is the one to measure to. Everyone who has felt this way has experienced it differently and while there are commonalities, no two people’s experience is the same. I know people have walked a similar path that didn’t like this movie, and that is totally fair. People who have experienced the thing the film is crafting an allegory for are not a monolith. However, stating that you are “offended” that people liked or found the movie effective in its horror (6:45), whether jokingly or not, is kinda shitty. Of course you don’t have to like the movie, and I actually love to hear criticism of media that I liked to broaden my perspectives on what I consume. But speaking down to those that did like something you find schlocky or “bad” leaves the worst taste in my mouth. So you didn’t like it, great! So you made a video explaining why, excellent! You insult people that may have different tastes and experiences that inform how you watch and interpret a film, you lost me. You also don’t take into account the people that like horror movies, but aren’t able to handle things that could be considered “high horror.” While I agree that Triple A studios do fund some pretty stupid movies, wouldn’t ever tell a person that they were dumb for liking it. Some people can’t handle Skinamirink (another film that deeply affected me because of lived experience), but can handle Tarot or Truth or Dare. So to piss on people that have different levels of horror tolerance and enjoy what you would consider “dumb horror” is not only elitist, but a truly boring and played out way of analyzing film that probably turns more people off the genre than brings them into it. And I say this as a horror fan that is also frustrated about the cash grab horror movies that are released in droves. But I can love The Exorcist, Get Out, and The Lighthouse, but still be affected by and enjoy films like Smile, The Conjuring, and Tarot. Not all horror needs to be groundbreaking, especially because the movies you call out as bad in this video could be someone’s intro to horror, and calling them dumb for liking them isn’t helping the horror genre’s case. And while I do get the frustration of being told to just “turn your brain off,” a better term for this sentiment is to “suspend your disbelief.” This is more a theatre term, but the idea still stands for analysis in film. Yes, turning off your brain does impact your ability to analyze and appreciate a film; you can miss themes and flourishes that a director/writer/set designer/etc put into a shot or the very point of the film. The flip side of this is that being overly analytical can devoid a piece of any enjoyment whatsoever, and you can’t see why anyone could ever like it. You can allow yourself to let go of the logical and still be able to pickup on the intent of the piece. Now, I admit that there are some films where that is hard if not impossible to do, which is fair. But letting go of the logical could maybe help not make pariahs of those that like something you find “bad.” Again, I’m not the end-all-be-all for wanting to jump off this mortal coil. But I personally thought this was an effective depiction of the slow and disastrous decent of seeing now way out of the pain that life brings, and just being to told to smile. While I can appreciate your criticism, what I don’t appreciate is being spoken down to because I found it affective. TDLR: Don’t shit on people that like things you don’t. You’re likely to turn people off from the genre, and it’s insulting to forgo people experiences that inform why they like a film and make them feel like idiots. It’s elitist and does nothing to further the love of the genre.
Smile being a trauma allegory is really frustrating considering how inaccurately it portrays it. It acted like it wanted to portray trauma as something meant to be confronted but also it doesn’t matter because it consumes you and drives you to unaliving anyway?
Wouldn’t it have made more sense if her running away to her old house was making it worse? Like finding a community of people who don’t just instantly invalidate you instead of self-isolating? It basically ends up saying that trauma makes you an inconvenience to everyone in your life so they leave you and then you unalive yourself which causes someone ELSE to become infected with trauma like it’s some sort of bad luck charm?? Why??
I keep seeing this and I feel vindicated. I thought it was only me who felt this way! I appreciate you sharing, I know I’m not alone now.
I find it annoying whenever any horror film tries to make an allegory to anything. It never ends well, once in a blue moon you get psychological horror like Silent Hill that does work because they aren't making a direct allegory to a particular condition, they're just exploring the mind through horror. But things like DID, schizophrenia, psychosis and psycho/sociopathy never get properly presented. The film maker put a token gesture into organisations that represent these conditions but don't make any changes when they're told when their depiction is just insulting.
It's not even that allegory to disorders cannot work either. My favourite piece of media is Mob Psycho 100, which more or less uses psychic powers as an allegory for autism and other neurodivergent conditions. It's brilliant.
I'm not even against the idea of trauma being contagious. I like the idea, but it was the execution that I hated. The creators didn't use that idea as well as it could have been used if they had been more thoughtful.
@@RayPoreon The Babadook did the trauma allegory way better years earlier.
Me and my dad saw it and this is exactly why we hated it. It fell so flat in the end. The jumpscares were tiring verging on funny. And the ending fake out felt so cheap. For a big budget movie it all felt so cheap.
This movie went from horror to comedy incredibly quick the moment i saw the first smile and could only think of the jerma sus face.
Yeah, when the mind monster showed up, all I could think about was the clip from Ghost Stories where the girl says “It’s Marilyn Manson!”
I watched smile 2 in theatres and i literally couldn’t take it seriously at all, i laughed most of the time
As a person on the schizophrenic spectrum, it was clear to me from the first moment of this film and has maintained in all commentary about it after, that Smile is made for people who are adjacent to and frightened by psychosis, NOT people who have experienced psychosis.
It is not a coincidence, in my opinion, that the legitimacy of the film is seemingly always defended by those who “have a schizophrenic friend” or “have seen meltdowns like that before”, never from those who have actually experienced it themselves.
It rings so hollow to me that it almost feels offensive, but it sits mostly in the “extremely annoying” category. The movie made me extremely uncomfortable, but more in a “triggered by the gratuitous depictions of being treated terribly for being mentally ill” way, not in a scared way. What’s insane is that I have experienced this EXACT hallucination throughout my life, and the movie still couldn’t convince me to identify with it.
TLDR Smile makes me angry because its entire premise is to use mental illness as a PROP to depict terrible treatment of an acutely mentally ill person, clearly made for an audience who is not mentally ill. Trauma as entertainment. Gross.
Very well said and incredibly accurate. As a former mental health field worker this movie did nothing but depress me. It legitimately has nothing to say except: Wouldn't it be super scary if one day you suddenly lost your mind for no apparent reason? Wouldn't it be frightening to watch your entire support system collapse around you as you become more and more of a burden to them?
Absolutely no empathy at all. Just "Man, mental illness sure is scary! I'm so glad that ain't me!" Disgusting.
@@redwolftoboe6452 that is EXACTLY how it made me feel. You described it better than I could.
This is an amazing comment. Thank you for saying it. As someone who has struggled with delusions and psychosis, everything you said is exactly right. I'm so tired of trauma survivors being used as monsters in film.
i remember watching this with my friends and getting so pissed off with the movie and especially ending but I wasn't able to communicate and make them understand exactly why it was so much more distressing and frustrating to me than anyone else in the room
at the time i wasnt in a good place so when the movie ended the way it did i just flew off the handlebars because getting angry about the movie was better than letting the rugpull get to me
@@redwolftoboe6452 "Wouldn't it be frightening to watch your entire support system collapse around you as you become more and more of a burden to them?"
hypothetically, just purely hypothetically, uh, no im not gonna ask you for solutions just holy shit wow yeah god damnit at least i know how to describe it now, thanks?
when i heard the premise for the original short film i was _certain_ that the twist would be that the re-occcuring dream wasn't a dream at alll, because she hasn't slept. not "ohhh oooh this whole time the therapist was the purple guy!"
Totally. There are parts of this that COULD work, if they were explored a little more thoughtfully.
"WAS THAT THE SMILE OF '87?"
I thought the whole point was that she was experiencing a paralysis. That she was stressing herself out over nothing in the end because sometimes the most terrifying thing there is is your imagination. The man never was real, she was just exhausted and ill. Like me fr
@@HanleyBrook-pz9iw That still isn't well telegraphed then or that well explored.
@ThePhantomSafetyPin at least it wouldn't of been a goofy plot twist. But truly it would require a little bit of actual rewriting to make better or more interestingly clear.
The fakeout at the end was truly…a choice. They spent this whole movie building up this monster as trauma manifested into a physical creature. Building up that having that unresolved trauma can hurt you and the ones you love.
Then the big finale hits, where Rose is duking it out with the root of her current struggles, and she seems to defeat it. By confronting her trauma, she manages to defeat it.
And then the creators turn to the audience and yell, “Gotcha!”
It’s as lazy as it is patronizing. It’s like the creators are punishing the viewer for believing that there could be a resolution to the metaphor they’ve spend the last two hours beating us over the head with.
And then, what kind of message are we left with? That trauma actually can’t be worked out and you’re doomed to succumb to the cycle no matter how hard you try? What a shitty message to give to an audience.
THANK
*GOD* IT’S NOT JUST ME WHO FEELS THIS WAY.
apologies for the capslock, this movie just grinds my gears in that exact way.
Exactlyyyy. The fakeout ending just turns the message from something that could be considered hopeful to something incredibly harmful. All for an ending that feels like the directors/writers themselves pointing to you like “bet you didn’t expect that ending, HUH? Hehehe 🤭.” Like ugh. The movie is still incredibly eugh with how it puts forth the message via the obnoxious characters, but the ending just feels straight up insulting. And the fact there’s going to be a Smile 2 feels even more eye rolling, because how in the world are they even going to expand on the already tired and established concept this first one put forth.
I mean. They likely wanted to avoid a cliche ending. And they were willing to waste your time for it
my thoughts exactly!! the metaphor is clumsy at best & downright mean-spirited at worst. maybe if the message was "everyone CAN heal from trauma but not everyone will bc some people don't want to be helped" i could almost understand the movie ending the way it does, but no, the implication is clearly that no one has ever meaningfully broken this cycle & therefore, we have to assume it's not possible. it bothers me.
It's trying to communicate the hard truth that you can never actually "defeat" your trauma. I didn't see it as a "GOTCHA!" But rather a recognition that in real life, you will always live with your trauma and there's not much you can do about it
Actually, the real problem with that second "don't watch it" comment is, how the hell are you supposed to know you don't like a movie _until_ you watch it?!
The comment applies to genres. I do not like Rom-Coms so I don't watch them, if I see a bad one... well I don't think I will even notice I did. The a 3/10 and 7/10 are the same to me.
right-? a movie can feel mid or even awful until the end where it wraps it up beautifully and makes every moment you hated suddenly feel so important
Ever tried eating shit? Why not? You never know...
I think he means In theaters where the money really matters if everyone waits till streaming it gets less money
@@lenorepoe4166 But it's still essentially throwing a tantrum because people have the nerve to support films that he personally doesn't like. It's still a pretty weird and unappealing take.
the whole message of the movie being "if you are sad or traumatised you can do nothing so you should just kill yourself alone so you dont fuck over anyone else" was... a choice.
Why do you think that was the entire, intentional message of the film to start with? Why do people have so much trouble distinguishing between something being portrayed in a piece of fiction, and that same something being endorsed by its author? Now I wanna show you Wages of Fear and see if the "whole message" you draw from it is "the director wants you to never, ever drive a truck again."
unfortunately, it would have been one thing for the story to show us an instance of someone surviving the trauma personified demon to show us that "all trauma is unable to be coped with and it will always kill you no matter what" Isn't the message at all, but the story didn't do that a single bit. Every single character we see that got infected and possessed by the demon died without exception, no matter how hard they try. As interesting as the "the protagonist is doomed from the start trope" can be if done correctly, the writers failed at it every step of the way, which is why i genuinely believe the story would have been better if the protagonist would have survived. Because if the protag would have survived, it would have proved that even though trauma Seems like it will kill you, it can still be coped with despite everything, but that's not what happened. Instead, we got a massive fakeout death ending, which if anything felt like a massive "fuck you for caring about the story". If the writers wanted to say that trauma is survivable, a character would have survived the demon.
@@NB-gu9rs Somebody needs to retake an English class and learn that stories have meaning 😶
This is highly reminiscent of Bloober’s The Medium, particularly the character Lily
@@WhiteTulip2002 also the Blair witch game they made, which also ends with the character offing themselves because I guess all ptsd-riddled war veterans turn into murderers? Also it had nothing to do with the Blair witch
"Turn your brain off" logic is such a slippery slope into absolutely brainless current filmmaking tropes escalating to the extreme lmao
I interpret “turning your brain off” as just asking me to view a film outside of the context of my personality and my experiences. I don’t know how somebody can do that. Unless they lack either personality or experiences.
@@katherineknapp3782 There’s no way it didn’t get started by some corporate plant looking to sway public opinion in shitty movies over the internet. Anti-intellectualism is at a high right now so even though it’s less of an issue than something like climate change denial or anti-vaccine sentiment i can see how it would work on a lot of people
It kinda jsut leads into people viewing movies as products and commodities instead of art, turning your brain off doesn’t let you enjoy the movie it lets you consume mindlessly without thinking of any greater themes the story might be trying to tell
@@katherineknapp3782 Well, when you engage with a piece of media, you are meant to set your own beliefs inside and meet with the story where it is. That being said, "turning your brain off" isn't meeting the story where it is, it's just _not engaging_ with the story. At that point, why are you even watching the film?
Someone who does turn their brain off when watching movies, here to provide some perspective. I think you can absolutely still appreciate a movie as art without deeply analyzing it, for me personally it’s more of a vibes thing. Like, I don’t know exactly what’s off about something, but I can tell it feels like a lazy cashgrab.
However, if a movie actually feels good when I first watch it (and I like the movie) I’ll rewatch it and think more critically about it, looking for more things in it. Honestly there’s some movies and TV shows I’ve rewatched over 10 times just to catch things I missed. But that’s something I do when I am willing to invest time and energy into a piece of media.
My brain is constantly over analyzing everything around me and does not shut up due to ADHD and several anxiety disorders. The best way to describe it to people who don’t experience it is just “I have my own personal backseating Twitch chat is constantly running in my brain”. So, sometimes, I don’t want to think critically about every piece of media I consume. However, Im also very picky with what movies I watch in the first place and usually don’t watch stuff I get that “this was made for money and not passion” vibe from.
Sorry this was so long, just wanted to clarify why someone might prefer turning their brain off and also defend it a bit given the amount of “you’re not watching the movie the right way” comments I’ve seen here. Like, as an artist, if someone looked at piece of body horror vent art I made that was a very personal and detailed piece, I’m not gonna be offended if someone sees that and just thinks it looks cool. Now if the person that just thinks it looks cool argues that it has no deeper meaning or thought put into it then that’s a problem, but aside from that I don’t mind.
Also (apologies for adding more), I don’t think putting all the blame on consumers is fair. The majority should be put on the companies that keep rolling this shit out and not the people watching it. I agree it’s easier to blame the consumer since that feels like something that can actually change, but the logic of “this person enjoying this cashgrab film is the reason film as an art form is dying” (movies being an example, this applies to other things) has led to individuals being blamed for corporate or societal problems.
Anyways, if you’ve read this far then thanks for at the very least hearing me out even if you still disagree lmao.
The only impression this movie made on me was the ad campaign where they had weird smiling people sit behind home plate at baseball games so they were constantly on TV. This was scrapped when enough major league pitchers complained it was stupid to the point of distraction.
I thought that was really effectively creepy but to be honest they could have just pretended to do it and posted clips online all 'omg what's this at the game last night?' and it would have worked and not upset any pitchers.
@TheHopperUK "Did anyone catch the game last night?"
*Cough cough cough*
Glitching starts
The biggest issue with this movie is in my opinion one that you didn't even mention. We're supposed to be waiting for the big moment where the demon thing takes full control and makes the protagonist kill herself, but considering the birthday party scene, it's obvious that the demon is able to control her actions practically at the point of contraction, meaning that the struggle of the entire movie is pointless.
technically when she offs her cat the demon isnt controlling her
she sees and feels herself as just wrapping presents
the only thing the demon does at that point is changes her senses of sight and touch
Yeah. The cat thing for me I was certain was us being shown that there is room to question how physical the monster actually is- hinting to an ability in some form to affect the physical world. Hence her checking outside and coming back to the present box at the table, and the long time the cat was missing. We have so many opportunities for something physical and actually present to manipulate events.
Smile 2, however, proved to me that this was not the author’s intent…
i have a feeling the "turn your brain off" crowd honestly think that something dubbed "entertainment" will always be a fun, easy watch because entertainment, to them, is simply fluff to pass the time that will make you feel good; and if it doesn't do that, it wasn't entertainment. even if someone from that crowd has a favorite film, book or show, i doubt they could articulate why they cherish it; if they can, they betrayed their own mantra since they had to turn their brain on to remember it.
i think you’re probably right about this, at least in a lot of cases
The turn your brain off applies to like generic Netflix series where everything is presi and you keep it on because its popular and is just background noise so you can play on your phone. Thats all turn your brain off should be
As someone who generally keeps one foot in that crowd, here's my perspective. The only times I've ever told someone to "turn their brain off" is as a last resort when they just cannot handle any ambiguity and need everything wrapped up in a neat little package at the end or when they get WAY too caught up in details that aren't important because they weren't established as a determining factors to the story.
And "entertainment" is a subjective term. For an example, Hereditary is one of my favorite movies - not just in horror, but in general. I found that movie very entertaining even though not a single thing in that movie was "fluff that made me feel good." I will describe as anything that keeps me invested in the story entertaining, regardless of the feelings it inflicts on me. Good or bad. I also find Smile "entertaining" even though I didn't like it... at all. Sometimes, I'm really only there to enjoy the story or the performances and I can appreciate what the director was going for even if it didn't land for me.
HER BOYFRIEND WAS A-TRAIN!?!?!?!?!?
I wonder if she was asked to blow A-Train
He gets Messages From The Stars
That makes her like Schroedinger's GF, existing in a quantum state between being and not being splattered.
It's so frustrating that a movie about a 'trauma curse' sets it up so that the only way you could conceivably not spread the curse on is by doing the opposite of what someone suffering a mental breakdown should do.
The primary discomfiting drive of the movie (at least to me) was watching the entity deliberately manipulate the protagonist in order to isolate her from anyone who could actually help. It deprived her of sleep, it played with her perception of reality, and expertly frayed her every nerve until, finally, she decides that the only "logical" thing to do is to push everyone away and end it all somewhere isolated so that the thing can't spread to anyone else. I always felt that this being an obviously terrible idea that plays directly into the entity's metaphysical hands is kinda the whole point.
@filthymcnasty7960 but then wouldn't the trauma demon be dead if the protag unalives herself somewhere secluded?
@@MistaZULE
That's what it wants you to think--the entity wouldn't have gotten as far as it has if it were that easy to take out, and was likely banking on at least one person who cared about Rose to come and check on her regardless. Even if it guessed wrong, it spreads through *trauma*, not necessarily the trauma of seeing its host shuffle loose this mortal coil. For all we know it could be able to lie dormant until someone stumbles across the body.
@@filthymcnasty7960 aren't you just adding extra information to the logic of the monster? Rose gets the trauma demon curse because her patient unalived herself in front of her so she chose to unalive herself away from anyone that could find her.
if that isn't the logic of the monster, then the movie did a terrible job of explaining the rules of the curse.
@@filthymcnasty7960 You're forgetting the fact that while that may be what the entity wants, it's still a really shitty message to put in your film. And THAT is why Smile fails.
Imo the “stop analysing and enjoy it” argument can only really be applied to media that don’t take itself seriously.
I enjoyed Smile, but mostly as a popcorn movie. The beats were predictable. As soon as they couldn't find the cat, my friend and I turned to one another with one eyebrow raised and said, "The cat's dead." When the party scene began, we turned to one another again and my friend said, "Cat's in the box."
Bad movies are good when you have someone to make fun of them with
My exact reaction to this movie when I saw it for the first time
I watched it at a small new year's party at the very end of the night when we were all drunk and VERY tired. I enjoyed it enough at the time, but as soon as I thought about it again later sober and realized it is..... not very good lol
a "popcorn movie", aka, turning your brain off - the point he discusses in this video
At this point, I know something bad's gonna happen to the animal the second an animal is introduced in a horror movie lol
The "You're going to Die" line just sounds like a John Mulaney impression to me and I can't unhear it
Therapists can’t prescribe meds. That’s a psychiatrist’s job.
then it's a good thing Rose is a psychiatrist
I watched this movie with my family, and halfway through I started playing live studio reaction sound effects, and playing Seinfeld transition music. And me and my family had a 5 star comedy experience.
i love that
Someone should make that into a video ngl
Something thay angers me a lot about this movie is that the car jumpscare with the long neck smiling woman is almost 1:1 copied from the 2018 argentinian film Aterrados, and its absolutely done better in that film than in smile
Really? I didn't know that.
@@PeiceofNick the clip is here in TH-cam, tho I'd fully recommend you watch the entire film cause it makes more sense with the entire context of what's happening and a pretty solid horror movie thats an interesting take on ghost hauntings
Oh I knew I'd seen it before somewhere!
And Romeo and Juliet is cribbed directly from a Philip Marlowe play. But why should anybody care?! What's wrong with an homage, or borrowing a single shot from a film with a totally different plot, characters, and setting?! I think you're looking for a "foolish consistency" here, in the name of a fake originality that doesn't really need to exist.
I’m more upset they spoiled it in the trailer because it’s one of the best scares in the movie. 🥲
I watched this at home on Halloween with my friend and she FELL ASLEEP during the CLIMAX of the movie💀pretty symbolic of how "scary" this movie was
I have friends who have fallen asleep during 2001: A Space Oddity and I fell asleep during a film-school showing of Citizen Kane once, so that's kind of a stupid criterion for a bad movie, sorry.
@@NB-gu9rstrue!! I mostly just thought it was a funny story but ur right 😔
@@lilyh9791 It can still be a good indicator for how engaging a movie is, assuming your friends weren't tired at the start of the movie.
> "people you respect the opinion of"
> picture of joe rogan
?????
It was a joke, right?... right?
He’s like… the last person I’d ever trust the opinion of
finally, a reviewer who points out the way she acts given that she’s a therapist. with her training as a mental health professional, how didn’t she think the extreme way she was acting was going to give those around her good reason to believe she was going crazy and becoming dangerous, especially at the hospital?
i’d love to know a therapist’s opinion about the movie and what they’d do differently if they found themselves in the protagonist’s situation
You can logically understand a situation until you find yourself trapped within that same situation. People become desperate and irrational no matter what their profession is. Therapists and doctors are still human and make choices that don't benefit themselves. Already at the start of the film you can see she's a workaholic and not taking care of herself. Her sister wants her to get rid of the house they grew up in, but she's been refusing. She stopped seeing her own therapist quite some time ago and clearly that hasn't done much for her mental health. She hasn't taken care of her trauma and works 80 hour weeks against her better judgement.
These are all things that happen to people in real life, even without the curse.
The idea that people expect horror film characters to behave with a level of rationality or hindsight that you yourself wouldn't have in real life is an oxymoron. People obsess too much over the "what would I do if I was in this situation" not realizing their level of dramatic irony and hindsight they have being an observer of a story.
It's such a small thing, but I thought that red corded phone she uses during the patient freakout was actually hilarious. Irl employees on a psych unit have this life alert style button they carry at all times. Also how she got so spooked at a catatonic man on a PSYCH UNIT. Overall it was like watching a therapist on her first day in 1962.
After watching Smile I literally told my friend i thought it was "a bad version of it follows"
Literally? Wow.
shit follows
What's funny is I remembered going into this film thinking the entity was going to be a metaphor on toxic positivity, and how society tries to trivialise trauma instead of helping those who need it...
Seems even that was apparently too high brow to ask instead of just doing OOOOOOH EVIL SMILES SO DISTURBING OOOOH, put that shit on a poster.
Yes, that was me too! It felt like the perfect way to tell that story.
But no... THEY CHOSE THE MOST GENERIC PLOT THAT HAD BEEN DONE TO DEATH!!!
That sounds like an actually good idea.
At least the sequel kiiinda leaned more that way. Not really, but kinda.
Ok but that’s actually a good idea for a metaphor. A smiling entity that’s whole goal is to snuff out people who can’t just be happy is such a good horror metaphor for the failures of our mental healthcare systems. If you can’t survive these arbitrary and ridiculous rules then you don’t deserve the help, or in this extreme case the ability to live. Make the monster believe it’s an angel or some divine thing sent to help cure the world to help add to it’s delusion, and boom you have a good premise that doesn’t shit on people with trauma.
Smile was so vapid and unimpactful that my husband and I forgot we watched it, saw it on one of our streaming services and thought we hadn't seen it yet, so we watched it again.
Someone mentioned in Smile 2 that it seems like the smiling entity freezes the victim in place to force them to watch their previous victim die so the curse will pass. That could explain why Rose doesn't do anything when Laura is in danger towards the beginning.
That doesn't excuse all the other issues or that the movie doesn't try to explain the freezing thing at all.
I mean, it’s pretty obvious to infer
Even without this caveat the "deer in headlights" thing happens to people. People become frozen and shocked and dazed and don't know what to do. This happens in real life, I don't know why people complain about it happening in fiction.
I was unnerved by the movie, because it ends on the "you will never overcome trauma" message. Then about a week after I watched it, my friend and I went to see Prey for the Devil, which is also quite mediocre, but the fact that it ended on a happy note, with a premise also about trauma, made me enjoy it a lot more. If you're gonna have a hopeless ending, you need to pick the right metaphor.
Another good one for this message is The Babadook
As someone who has experienced things similar to what happens in the movie and have been told I have a creepy ass smile all my life, this film seems like it was written by a nine year old who thought edgy meant good. It legitimately felt like a group of young children trying to scare each other around a campfire using stories they heard from slightly older children "they opened the gift... AND IT WAS A DEAD CAT!!!!" "...but the scariest part was, SHE was smiling too" shit like that is the entire movie
I'm constantly baffled that people think that asking you to turn your brain off to enjoy something is a compelling rebuttal to criticism
I’m actually now interested in your top 20 horror shorts. Analyzing how effective a scare can be given its short run time would be interesting!
Yes, same!!
I'm a huge fan of horror shorts. They're mostly ok but there's so many amazing gems out there.
There's a TH-camr I follow called Emily's Adventures In Horrorland. She has a top 20 short horror films list oddly enough!
Sitting there waiting for something to happen is a devastating insult when skinamarink was one of your horror favorites (is also one of my favorites)
It just goes to show how important atmosphere and framing is!
@@spookymcg Or how little consistency there is in your criticism. I can't wait to do an itemized list.
@@NB-gu9rs Not inconsistent really, when you're sitting there waiting for something to happen, what it amounts to is that you're bored. There was less happening in Skinamarink, and yet he wasn't bored.
@@NB-gu9rsdamn dude chill 😭
@@NB-gu9rs "You said pineapple on puzza is disgusting. But here you are EATING PINEAPPLE FLAVORED CANDY?
Your food reviews are so inconsistent, i cant wait to make an itemized list".
Get it ..? You can use one thing in two ways, and one can be good and one can be bad.
Not all movies where he is "waiting for something to happen" are the same. One might be pineapple pizza, and one might be pineapple candy.
GET IT??
I hated Smile. I'm so sick of horror movies revealing some boring monster at the end. Especially when the whole thing is meant to be about trauma, we don't need some dumb monster to be afraid of. If they had just taken the time to refine the story and treat it with more subtlety, it might have been better.
Good points! Interested to hear your thoughts on The Babadook then, as it has a bit of both (family trauma AND a monster tying things together)
@@pringlebatchboth movies and both monsters are GREAT. especially the practical effects with smile
Ummmm ya do know almost all horror is ABOUT TRAUMA right??!? But sure....maybe when you get older you'll see it 🙄
@@pringlebatchnope it's suppressed grief THAT is the monster....it's not somehow separate and it's not a REAL actual monster. Wowza can any of you not grasp metaphor and symbolism?!?
This comes down to a general public who doesn't read anymore. Or if they do it's vapid shite books.
If you want to be real about it, the monster is meant to be a demon of trauma/grief or something along those lines. And, typically demons look like humans. Maybe not the most stylized design, but an intentional one.
See, I always just avoided Smile because it seemed like 1) cheap jumpscare horror, and 2) gross-out horror in psychological horror's clothing. But damn, this is worse.
If you have to "turn your brain off" to enjoy a movie, it's a bad movie.
It’s fine if the movie doesn’t take itself seriously
Thank you for this criticism. I saw this movie at the wrong time in my life, when I was going through a mental health crisis myself and, I did not like the message at the end, it wasn’t just, “the monster wins.” Wrong. It’s not about that, it’s about the main character being gaslit by her fiancé, and how she didn’t escape what happened to her mother. I didn’t like that, but I did think the curse aspect was interesting in the development of the plot. I don’t care for how they portrayed mental health, this could’ve been done better but, once more, it’s handled poorly in its delivery. Thank you for your sharp critique, it’s refreshing.
So you’re mad bc the protagonist didn’t “win” at the end? Its not always sunshine and rainbows
It’s not that the protagonist didn’t win. It’s that the delivery was tasteless. A lesson at the end of a movie about offing yourself that amounts to:”there’s nothing you can do and you’ll only worsen the lives of people around you & k!ll yourself” is so irresponsible and cold to anyone who actually does have mental health issues
@@emiliogonzales7073 Can you read? They literally said its NOT that
@@Montoni-sy7uz
There's no lesson.
For gods' sake people. The movie isn't a statement.
For all this talk I read here about 'stupid people not wanting to anylize movies, and eating them up as they are served' - the people that are analyzing it seem as actually the personification of 'Media Literacy is Dead.'
Look, having bad shit in the movie or presenting poor dealing with said shit doesn’t endorse it! Movies CAN teach things, but that's not their main job.
The main job is to present an idea.
And Smile did present the idea.
It stuck to it till the very end.
The idea is awful. Or rather presents awful stuff.
Doesn't mean that it now has a message to You that:
"This is how it really is. No cup. Trust me. Oh, and fighting with Mental Illnesses is useless, better off Yourself now."
At no point in the movie, did it try to paint this as the right idea for Our real world. Our real life.
It was self-contained.
It was about a poor lass that went through the worst shit possible, and instead of it getting better for her, it ended even worse.
The end.
Very sad, upsetting and awful.
It trully is. But such scenarios happen. The "it was bad, it is bad and it ends bad".
That was what the movie presented. The idea it went with. The awful idea to think about, not to teach about.
You can react to it however You want, that's what fiction is for.
Just please, don't go around telling people online You want movies to be teaching You.
No movie should ever teach as its main premise.
It should introduce the idea and then welcome thinking and contemplating said idea. Judging it on Your Own
@Montoni-sy7uz I find that far too many people look for morals or lessons at the end of stories. Stories can just be stories, meant to portray certain ideas.
The horror of the smile curse comes from its inevitability, the lack of control it gives you and how that parallels what it feels like in real life to suffer from mental illness. The way things feel hopeless.
The way people treat her compounds onto her distress because she never really had an established support system, even pushing away the one guy who was willing to help her.
As someone who initially enjoyed the movie on my first watch and has mental health issues this was very interesting to hear. On my first watch while some stuff definitely came off as really dumb like the trailer spoiling scares or the therapist not trying to stop her patient from killing herself, I just saw a lot of what I was dealing with at the time. Friends and family not taking me seriously, traumatic memories playing over and over in my head. I agree that the first final design of the monster was just lame and ugly but when it peeled it’s skin it just gave me the implication that it’s made up of its past victims and being a practical effect just made it even scarier. My interpretation of the ending was more of a cautionary tale than telling people there’s no escaping their demons since she becomes so isolated throughout the movie. “Reach out to your friends and family, seek help” (not that her situation is meant to represent everyones, after all her support system is written to be self centred as opposed to encouraging her to fight this thing) but I think your point on it telling people that there’s no hope still stands. If horror is meant to represent our societal fears I think it makes sense to have a movie that touches on mental health and what happens when we try to ignore whatever we’re dealing with but if the ending tells someone who’s struggling that the monster is right? Then we need a movie that tackles this subject matter with more care.
The crucial difference between Rose (Smile) and Hannah Baker (Thirteen Reasons Why), is Hannah is a teenager and a newcomer to the town - it makes sense she's an arsehole, often makes poor decisions, and often doesn't know where to turn, since she has no network. That's quite different to an adult therapist with nearby family, friends and lovers.
*Describes the coolest thing ever*
"yeah this kinda sucks actually"
My passionate unsustained hatred for reviewers continues to grow
It is genuinely crazy to me how many people have made video essays calling it a masterpiece and similar things when it's a movie with an ending that amounts to, "if you have trauma, it doesn't get better no matter what you do + kill yourself." I felt insane. The one thing I do think this movie did incredibly well is at the end when we see the monster's form without skin, it's done with practical effects. I think the design is cool with it looking like it's many bodies inside of each other like a matryoshka doll, and it would have been really fantastic in a better movie. I also just always want to praise practical effects since a lot of movies skip out on them now and ultimately make a worse product for it. That said, the cool thing is on scene for a few seconds and the movie is an hour and 55 minutes, so it really does not make it worth watching
"Local fan discovers film appreciation is subjective, learns nothing from it! Film at 11."
@@NB-gu9rs This comment really feels like projection. Yeah, I think other people's subjective opinions on this movie are crazy. I made a comment about it and what? You're so aghast by my comment about my subjective opinion, you think I've just discovered different people have different thoughts? Come on girlypop. Get well soon
I'll agree that the movie as a whole is pretty mid and that the practical effects of the entity's true form were dope, but I have a diverging interpretation of the ending. The way I saw it, Rose never actually *dealt with* her trauma, instead sidestepping the issue to focus on the monster. Her defiant declaration of having control of her own mind is further proof of how deeply she's internalized the trite "it's all in your head" narrative that she and other incompetent therapists (real or otherwise) push, and the ending fakeout the creature pulls to show her the futility of this ends up causing her final mental break that allows it to win.
It's so funny seeing you going through multiple comments trying to defend slop lol @@NB-gu9rs
Does people watch horror movie for a moral and something positive to say ?
I don't get the point where people say that the movie provides a bad message about trauma, yeah, obviously, the point of horror movie is to be unsettling
I don't say it to praised for movie, it's quite mid. I liked the ending with the monster and the backstory as much that I totally forgot the cringy smiling face
I just find that weird that morals, is in so many critics about the movies since I don't watch horror movie to have a good healthy depiction of something
I’ve enjoyed a lot of your takes on this movie, but some of the takes on the mental health profession are maybe misinformed.
A lot of hospitals would not advise a doctor of any kind to approach a patient with a weapon. You’re usually trained to call for help or security if a patient is going to harm themselves or you. At the hospital I work at, there is an alarm on the wall you press, having it be a phone is weird. And it’s weird that they’re in a break like room and not an actual evaluation room where there would absolutely not be anything that could be used as a weapon. It’s also somewhat unclear how far into her profession rose is, so her freezing up could have had more weight if they clarified she was in med school still or this is her first job where she’s actually treating patients alone.
As far as her therapist coming to see her, that is completely normal. It would be a lot more unprofessional/dangerous if she was just given medication based on what her husband stated instead of being evaluated in person.
I actually think having a mental health professional be the main character could have been interesting if the story was better. Mental health professionals aren’t perfect people, and a lot of them get into the profession because they have suffered themselves and want to spare others.
21:40 I agree! But at least Hannah was a teenager, so I could see someone getting behind her dumb decisions due to immaturity. But in Smile, there is no such excuse.
I think the worst thing is they could've EASILY made this movie about generational trauma by giving it a way better ending.
Asshole characters and unnecessary, foreseeable and gratuitous animal violence aside, this movie has moments that are interesting and then does nothing with them.
As it is, the movie is not only about not being able to outrun trauma but also about not helping mentally ill people. Mr. Policeman is the only one getting burned (aside from Rose - ayo), the only one trying to help her.
Her sister Holly is cartoonish levels of evil and narcissistic. She left her little sister with their obviously not well mother, not bothering to look back, resulting in her sister being traumatized and her mother dying. As soon as her sister starts exhibiting similar symptoms, she pushes her away, talking about protecting her family. Bitch that's your SISTER. Holly is basically saying 'You're going to die and I neither care nor am going to call somebody to help you.'
What if, and hear me out, Rose killed Holly?
There is way to survive the curse as mentioned in the movie: Make someone watch you kill someone and traumatize them to pass on the curse. And then it just gets kind of dropped.
The movie could have ended with Rose driving to her sisters place to get to the root of her trauma. Her sister, of course, doesn't like that, but not giving up an opportunity to drag Rose through the mud, relents. They talk, starting of normal but getting louder and more frustrated as they start throwing out accusations. One shoves the other, they don't know who started it but they start to tussle. Holly hits her head and lays on the ground dazed and either trough desperation, anger or the curse taunting her trough her sister, Rose bludgeons Holly to death.
The camera turns to show Holly's son watching. (You could even throw in the horror movie staple of 'Mom?'). Rose sits on her dead sisters torso, bloody, looking on in disbelief. No music, no ambiance, just her heavy breathing. Cut to black. (You could once again change it to the generic 'screaming with echo cut to black' ending.)
This would change the entire message of the movie. Rose never got the closure she needed, resulting in her resenting her sister and blowing up. Holly, trying to outrun her own trauma by throwing everyone else under the bus, pays the price with her life while passing the curse of their trauma - get it? - onto her son. The message would be that trauma can't be outrun so you're fucked, but more along the lines of 'If it can't be outrun, you need to confront it.'
I'm really tired of the stereotypical use of mental illness in horror movies. It's just insulting to me and people who actually struggle with mental illness. Like, whatever is going on in my mind is definitely scarier for me than it is for you!! It just feels like an attempt to make mentally ill people into a scary, malicious "other". It's dehumanizing and disrespectful.
I enjoyed Scream VI more than Smile. Give me a formulaic played out slasher over this, at least I know Ghostface won't use outdated mental illness tropes in 2024.
All I see on the internet is praise for this movie and I'm so glad there's someone else that finally feels the same way as me about it.
Honestly seeing the Internet praising it after watching Jack Saint's video and this just upsetting me more, how could they be so blind to its tone deafness?
Because not everyone, not even a majority of people sit down to watch a movie with a note book a bubble pipe and enough pretensions to cause hernias.
You know what I took away from the film? That’s a way that evil can spread that I’ve never heard of before. This demon plays by rules that I’m not privy to. I wonder where it came from. What force from hell may have been it’s origin.
I have self game over urges. I think watching a movie and coming to the conclusion the author says “trauma can not be escaped commit self die” just reeks of people looking to be angry about something
@@yayisnotasinger You don't have to look too deep in to the movie. In this case, its just not a very good movie. Its boring, its trite and it has no idea what its message is supposed to be.
On a bit of an unrelated note, a big step toward accepting, treating and overcoming certain things is to call them what they are and not mask it in cute nicknames. I won't say the word here out of respect, but "self game over" and "self die" are truly self-defeating phrases when trying to tackle an issue and honestly take more effort to come up with than just saying it.
@@Sisren86 sure you can call it cute. But you’re either being willingly ignorant or you’re just foolish if you think the actual phrase won’t get my comment filtered or deleted.
@@Sisren86 I don’t make the rules. If I say the actual phrase my comment is deleted. Happened trying to respond to you, here’s my second attempt at making TH-cam not delete my comment
I think Rose not responding to Laura was meant to show the feeling of being frozen, or unable to look away
For sure, and it makes sense to a certain degree. Like, of course, watching someone hurt themselves would bring back memories of Rose's mom. But she's supposed to have gone through specific training and equipped for emergency situations. Which is why watching her not do anything feels frustrating. I still think it's a nice parallel to her not acting to save her mom either.
"You can't judge a book by it's cover" Except when the cover gives you a summary of most of the story and plot twists the book has before you open the damn thing.
I forgot how LONG the birthday cat glass table thing lasted and i do like the creature when It opens its mouth within mouth face comes out
I'll admit the creature is cool looking because it's majorly made of practical effects rather than CGI
"lol this weirdo wants movies to be good" is such a wild stance to have. What is even happening?
You would think a trained mental health professional wouldn't react like 😲😰☹️😭😱 every single time someone exhibits unusual behavior
Oh my god, THANK YOU. I thought I was going crazy! Everyone says how good this film is, and I was the only one who thought it was terrible.
My mom loves that "turn your brain off" argument whenever we watch movies together cuz i like to analyze them while watching lol
For me, the movie felt like one of the "edgy horror stories" that kids would tell at summer camp when i was like 12. Like the whole movie all i hear is some kid trying their best to make the next creepypasta.
I heard something about it being an "allegory" for trauma and I thought "Oh, so it's a 'how do people put on a smile in the face of this crushing existential doom' kinda deal. That's...kind of on the nose, isn't it?" But apparently it's not even that level of "clever".
I absolutely HATE the criticism of "why was she just standing there doing nothing??" Because that is a trauma response! Everyone talks about "fight or flight" but it's really "fight, flight, friend, or freeze." Freezing as a trauma response may be what kept me alive when I was robbed as a cashier at a convenience store. Because of the fact that I could barely move or respond to the robbers, I wasn't able to tell them where the extra cigarettes were, which got them out of the store faster, which meant that they could leave before the cops got there, which meant that it didn't turn into a crazy hostage/stand-off situation. Freezing has also hurt me in other scary situations, so I'm not saying that it's a perfect response, but it absolutely is a way that people respond to terrifying situations
The problem there is that she is a medical professional who should be a lot more used to situations like this where a patient is acting violently. Obviously medical professionals can feel fear, but they have protocols they follow so probably wouldn't feel as scared as someone getting robbed.
@Ianmccullochsplinky you don't know how you'll react until you're in it. I was robbed. I was also trained on what to do if I was robbed. When it happened, my mind was blank. Psychiatrists aren't gods just because they have training
@@Ianmccullochsplinky Orderlies and nurses handle situations like that, whom she called as soon as Laura began freaking out.
I didn’t think Laura was forced, because insomnia induced psychosis (something I’ve experienced) is extremely dramatic, over the top emotional and dis regulated.
Exactly.. Insomnia combined with seeing horrifying images for days and constantly not being believed would make someone act on edge and extremely emotional. That immediately made me view this critique as smarmy and "If you like something that I don't, you're not smart like me."
Literally right below this I got a recommendation for "Smile is a horrir masterpiece" which just makes me sad
same
same
Same 😂
I actually saw the thumbnail to a video like that before watching this 😂
People merely disagreeing with your opinion of a film makes you sad, because you think your feelings about it are objectively correct and you take offense at other people having other things they enjoy about it?
That makes me sad. And disappointed. And a little smirky, because that's not a very sophisticated perspective.
Moral of the story: Trauma and Mental illness is inescapable, inevitable, and there is no cure
Jokes aside, I actually liked this movie. I think it actually shows great depth on how one may feel going through psychosis as we're taken on a first person delusional journey in which I'm wondering if that's all real or if that really was all just the main characters delusional state full of hallucinations. We see a character talk about how this is real and can't be happening to them because they're so smart, educated, and successful- but at the end of the day mental illness can happen to anyone.
I don’t think the message is quite ‘psychosis is an unstoppable disease’ as I believed it was more about ‘without seeking help it is’. I believed what killed the woman was that she never opened up. She never told anyone about her trauma and real life struggles fully. At least I assumed that’s what they were going for, the fact she never opened up fully and got help and closure being the protagonists downfall.
However, this is likely my incredible bias towards the movie. I was going through some rough episodes of psychosis at the time of my life that this movie came out. My largest fear was completely losing grip on reality to an extent showcased in this movie. I guess I felt better figuring that opening up was the best way to get help and move forward since that worked well enough for me
Thank you so much for this video. I agree so much and as a horror fiend, it really disappoints me that people ~still~ discount horror movies as stupid and bad, period. When people lost it over how good they thought this movie was, I was like, “Why? It’s fine, but it’s not amazing or anything…” Every time they take a short film that’s a decent idea or that’s actually executed reasonably well, and they stretch it into a full movie, it KILLS me. Working as a short doesn’t translate to working as a movie inherently.
1:52 Soo... What are the top 20 horror shorts? Come on skeleton man, we gots to know.
tbf not all movies have to be cinematic masterpieces and sometimes u can watch for fun
Watch out, don't say this in front of the redditors!!
@ I will keep that in mind! 😅
Dude I am so glad that someone agrees that this movie is trash. Everyone I’ve talked to about it seemed to at least like it, but as someone who has experienced deep episodes of depression and anxiety, this just fell so flat for me. The only part that got a genuine reaction out of me was the scene with the cat and only because I felt bad for THE CAT. I covered my eyes for that scene because it made me nauseous.
smile made me mad the first time i watched it, too. i have lot of qualms with its premise, which is basically that, ‘ooo mentally ill people are scary and surrounded by demons.’ it’s just SO insulting as someone who actually IS mentally ill and has struggled with it my entire life. at this point, though, it’s such a common trope in mainstream horror films that it’s almost impossible to escape. i’ve gotten to the point in life where the best thing i can do for my own sanity is laugh about it. like yes, smile is BAD. but the second time i watched it, it sure as hell entertained me. i laughed through all the same parts you did. the characters were so insufferable that by the end of the movie, i was rooting for the demon. with regards to the demon itself, i was actually thrilled with the creature design! the main reason i watched it again is because i didn’t finish it the first time and never got to see the demon after it sheds its human ‘costume’. you didn’t touch on this at all while discussing the film’s ending which was little disappointing because i think it’s legitimately one of the movie’s VERY few saving graces. maybe it’s because i’m an artist myself, but i grew up on horror movies that used practical sfx almost exclusively, and it’s given me a serious appreciation for production teams that go out of their way to create monsters like the one in smile instead of resorting to bad, soulless cgi-something you did talk about regarding the original short film. i thought it was creepy as hell and reminiscent of the creature design we see in a lot of analog horror here on YT.
in the end, it probably all comes down to personal sensibilities. the first time i watched smile, i was unable to enjoy it at all. i think that had to do with where i was in life at the time. now i’m in a different place and find value in laughing at comically bad movies that take themselves so seriously. clearly, you’re the kind of person who places high value on artistic integrity and that’s a good thing! i hate that the film industry doesn’t take horror seriously at all, too. it’s such a shame because there’s so much masterfully made horror out there that doesn’t get the recognition it deserves! i’m interested to know what your horror favorites are! liked and subscribed.
For such a critical thinker, you couldn’t critically think of a better word then “unalive”? Advertisers must love you
SPOILER ALERT!
I have yet to sit down and watch the film fully, so I am 100% biased and will readily admit that, but I went through the entire synopsis in great detail. I’m also someone with mental health complications myself, so I’m unfairly biased there too. This is simply not my movie, but I’m going to be annoying and run my mouth anyway.
They do two things I think are done to death: kill an animal just for the sake of “OH MY GOOOSH YOU MUST BE INSANE YOU MURDERED A SMALL CUTE INNOCENT ANIMAL” which…listen, I get that the demon is meant to isolate you from everyone, and does that by taking advantage of psychotic/antisocial behavior it makes you do, and the fact that people *will* run away rather than help…but REALLY???
And… it’s a downer ending. Which, considering the whole mental health theme and the fact that it’s aiming for realism…really doesn’t send the best message.
Like “you can try to confront your trauma, but you’ll still probably traumatize all your loved ones in the process, and will never be the same at best, and maybe off yourself at the worst”. Like…thanks, movie. Tell me something I don’t know.
Does it need to send a good message though? Like its a horror movie (I'm not saying it's a good one, I think it sucks too there's like one really good shot at the end where the thing eats her but other than that it's ass) but people complaining that it's a poor portrayal of psychosis or whatever like... yeah of course it is this is a not very well made horror film? It doesn't need a happy ending, it doesn't need an accurate portrayal of schizophrenia, whatever. Media should be able to portray things in a variety of lights, not just positive ones.
Obviously if the media is then good is a completely separate issue but I think it's annoying when people say something is bad purely because of the way it chooses to portray a mental illness: sometimes people do slip through the cracks and have "bad endings" yknow? I don't think it's bad to have a movie be like "yeah, psychosis is scary and sometimes people with trauma can't overcome it" because that is a factual statement lol
@@wehehehehe-k3gI mean, it's one thing to have a horror movie with a gloomy ending, but telling people that its better to avoid bothering your friends and family because you'd be a burden to them is fucked up in a way that goes further than "oh the main character died" into bad advice being spewed at the audience.
@@malachiluna9777 but is it the movie's responsibility to assume you don't know that isolating yourself is bad? Does the director need to premeditate what kinds of people their movie might reach, and what those people might know about psychology?
@@wehehehehe-k3g I mean, I presume if the director is releasing it to an audience, they'd have to expect that they're reaching an audience, right?
Currently, I have no reason to assume that the director believes that isolation is bad in the first place, given what's in the movie.
@@malachiluna9777 can you not fathom the idea that a person might willingly want to portray a negative choice or way of navigating a horrible situation like what is presented in smile?
Why is it so important that it needs a happy ending with accurate and responsible use of therapy/coping mechanisms? Rose's support system sucks and was written to be that way, just like how in real life some people slip through the cracks and succumb to trauma for a variety of reasons.
I watched Smile, and felt it was almost tolerable. But for me, and my enjoyment of Horror, the films are a vehicle for dope ass creature/monster designs. The Thing is one of my favorites because its good for a story and has amazing monster designs and effects. So the horrible film gave me a few seconds of pretty interesting creature design. Still too long.
Not showing the final monster design in the video sure is a choice you made.
Ngl I liked this movie, but that could be bc I don’t usually watch a lot of horror movies. Maybe I’m just jaded by all the “based on a _true story_ ” demon possession movies and literally any sort of original concept was enough for my approval.
Nah ur right it's a fun movie. This guy is just a cringe hyperbolic redditor. He thinks every movie that doesn't have a super deep meaning under 400 layers of boring crap, is a sin against nature.
I think a lot of the criticisms you gave were of pretty small nitpicky things which weaken your argument whereas the ending of the movie and the themes deserve so much more criticism. I was just as mad when I finished the movie and honestly The Haunting of Hill House made similar commentary on trauma, mental illness, and suicide but did it a billion times better. I think Smile was trying to say Rose died because she didn't reach out to anyone after her mom died, pretended everything was fine, and didn't have a good support system, but it didn't exaggerate that point enough for it to make sense and we aren't shown that, just told. After the monster infected her she sought therapy, she reached out to everyone in her life, she had her cop friend who listened to her, confronted her trauma, and still having her die in the end makes it seem like the filmmakers are trying to say she deserved it. I think they were trying to discourage secluding yourself while having suicidal thoughts but the monster's mechanics give her no other option of beating it without putting others in danger. Making the monster an allegory for trauma and mental health issues and then having the only possible way to beat it by hurting others or secluding yourself forever just doesn't work.
To make the interpretation that the filmmakers were saying she deserved it is missing the point.
Similarly, you mention how these points weren't "exaggerated" enough to make sense, but you still caught on to them. Things don't need to be straight up said in your face for them to make sense. We understand these details by watching how characters behave and interact with one another and the language they use.
It's evident in the way Rose and her therapist talk about mental health vs people outside of the field do. People in real life are not respectful and generally not educated on these topics.
Even without the curse, Rose was in a bad place. And it's also made clear that the curse specifically seeks out people who have already experienced intense trauma so that it can have more to torment them with.
Smile itself isn't making the argument that Rose deserved her end or that there is no hope in the face of mental illness. It's just displaying what it feels like to have things go out of control and your family and friends, while well meaning, might not understand you and do things that harm you further. It's a character study on dread and hopelessness.
The first movie was okay. It had some pieces that felt odd, and some of the horror felt too abrupt. They also set themself up by trying to make a movie about smiling, in an age where 26 year olds use the word "rizz". It's an actually hard thing to do right. The second movie on the other hand that went extra hard into the psychological horror. A good watch, and actually scared me.
Another reason i think the second movie is actually good, bring up your point about how they never use "what's real or not", they do that so well. They also use the time much better.
Also pro tip. STOP WATCHING TRAILERS. It's stupid.
Also, to say it's the worst watching experience really shows your inner fantano.
What’s an “inner fantano”, is that when people act like cringy melodramatic haters lol
@alexbennet4195 i was going for overly critical on certain things
i am of the opinion that in a purely practical sense, i know how to beat the smile thing. you get a friend you know you can trust, whom you also have another mutual friend with. you get a bunch of stuff for practical effects, and you take your trusted friend and your secondary friend on a trip to the woods, somewhere isolated. on the way, you and your trusted friend start bickering in front of your secondary friend. small things at first, and then, at the isolated location, you get in a big fight. by this point, you have a blood packet on your neck and your friend has grabbed a knife. they stab you, you fall on the floor, fake blood everywhere, blaaah, dead. you need to sell this. so if this thing passes from person to person by witnessing death (iirc the only man who’d ever survived it had murdered someone in front of a third party), then effectively your secondary friend has witnessed a murder. they’re terrified, and the demon jumps to them. then you get back up, tell them it’s fine, explain everything, and then they’re not traumatized anymore. a little weirded out, probably, but no one’s dead. anyway now the demon has nowhere to go no takes backsies xoxo now it’s gone forever
Do you actually hate twinks
Did you ignore the actual monster design on purpose? The mother wasn't the actual monster design lol
Why are you pretending the demonic form of the mother was the final form of the demon? The actual final form looked good
Everyone in this comment section has probably never been invited to a party
watched this movie with my girlfriend in theaters, shit was STUPID. my least favorite part was the sobbing breakdown i had when they showed the cat at the party scene, im a major cat person and them being subjected to any kind of violence is highly triggering.
Not really relevant to this movie but I swear sm people are unempathetic to cats especially in movies. Like scenes of cats dying will be played for laughs whereas dogs dying are known for making people cry
What did it trigger? Your PTSD over… being a cat person? I’m sure that must be very stressful
Got to love how you lied about the ending, especially the monster’s design.
Man, if this is one of the worst movies you've ever seen, you've lived a blessed life.
Therapists can't prescribe medication. However, the therapist was extremely unethical for ambushing the main character with her bf, and she could have referred her to see a psychiatrist at least.
The writer saw the cover of an Aphex Twin album and was like "i can make a horror movie out of this"
11:52 so glad you pointed out how fucking stupid this scene is. I wanted to like the movie up until that point but I literally had to pause to laugh my ass off & couldn't get back into it at all for the rest of the runtime 😂
Hi Connor, you said something in this that I think was really uncalled for. Critisize something you don't like by all means, but why be condescending and mean about it? I don't say this to defend this movie, but it did scare me. I have very little experience watching horror, so I haven't had the opportunity to get bored by or resistant to these horror tropes. Some people out there, like me, just have a different tolerance and proclivity to fear, that doesn't make me a 7 year old or immature, not sure what you were going for with this comment
He's a redditor spewing hive mind garbage.
i feel like there was a point of the film u missed, its not about being traumatized and suicide being the only option, its about how u shouldnt deal with trauma yourself, the whole thing is that she went to deal with it alone and it ended badly
Maybe that’s what they were going for but if so they completely failed, throughout the whole story her trying actively to talk to others and get help is rejected and she is treated horribly by those who should be helping her, which ends up sending the message that reaching out for help will lead to you being hurt further
@@chairly It should also be taken to be understood as what happens when you ignore people in crisis.
You can tell by the language her and her therapist use about mental health vs how people elsewhere talk about it, there's a level of disconnect in understanding how to actually deal with it.
People are uneducated on these topics and thus reject people who look for help from them, leading to their further isolation.
I suggested to my friends that we go and see this movie when it came out because I had recently rediscovered my love of horror media. I hadn’t seen any trailers, just noticed that it was a horror movie, and was excited to see one in theatres. I genuinely believe the car window jumpscare was amazingly done. You know the main character is very very deep into her own fears but at that point I still believed at least her sister would pull through for her. Watching her walk back down the path to her car and tapping the window actually made me feel relieved, and the jumpscare was very well done and looked good. Then, the shot right after, of the main character sitting in her car, crying to herself, really showed exactly how alone she was. The camera is above her and far away, really effectively making her seem aloof and isolated.
It’s a real shame the rest of the movie was just not good at all because that whole scene was so good. Like I really want people to see that scene (not just out of context in a trailer) but I cannot recommend anyone actually watch the movie.
I actually liked the final appearance of the demon or whatever want call it after it ripped its face off. Kind of surprised you didn’t mention it.
This video is so patronizing. Definitely not in my top 20.
I think the part that frustrated me the most was the fact that the mc and her ex boyfriend essentially researched this entity as much as they could and knew what caused someone to get the curse and what you had to do to avoid it, and YET the boyfriend still stared DIRECTLY AT HER while she burned herself alive. Made me think he simply wanted to die atp.
Unless you left it out - and that seems extremely unlikely - there is no excuse for casting a bunch of identical-looking people with the same hair color and style unless identity, doppelgängers, family resemblance, how society promotes bland conformity, etc., are themes being developed. If all of your perfect actors happen to look the same, here are some easy things you can do: 1. Wigs/dyeing/haircut/styling, 2. Glasses, 3. Subtly Color-coding their clothes, 4. Giving them distinctive clothing styles, 5. Regional accents and oh, yeah, 6. writing well.
When I showed my mom this movie and by the way, is a psychiatric hospital, she immediately saw how well this movie shows mental disorders or something and was genuinely impressed. Its not that the movie is long or "dumb" its that you didn't understand what the movie was supposed to show on a way smaller scale
bruv if this is one of the worst movie experiences of your life, I don't think you watch enough movies
I've only seen the second one and it shook me to my core. I think you might like that more because it is just better in nearly every aspect from what I've heard.
The way this video starts is funny to me because yes, turning your brain off will make you miss the subtleties, which is exactly why many people do it. I don’t (most of the time). But lots of people just want to watch it and enjoy it at a purely surface level, they couldn’t care less about the themes or character development. Which to be fair, is OK. People are allowed to enjoy media however they want. And some stories are built for an audience like that. Some stories mostly exist for cool fight scenes and don’t really focus on writing deep characters because the audience doesn’t care. They just want to see cool fight scenes, and that’s it. Heck, sometimes you know something isn’t objectively good, but you still unironically enjoy it, and to some extent that does involve turning your brain off just enough to not let the downsides bother you that much.
The real problem arises when people tell you that you should turn your brain off. I’m not going to tell you to turn your brain on, so don’t tell me to turn mine off.
"Why didn't this person in mental anguish use logic and reasoning? Why were they acting out of character??" Really?
Generally I think they were saying that since Rose was a therapist she should probably know how to communicate well with? Others, since acting even when fearful would be part of her job
@@gummywormee41 maybe her being a therapist highlights how much she wanted to fix/indulge in other people's problems/trauma rather than focus on the very big overlooked problem she has herself
@@gummywormee41 therapists are also humans with fear responses
I'm a Smile defender sorry 🫡 the jumpscary nature doesnt ruin movies for me typically, & the plot didnt bother me, I actually felt I resonated with it & the characters at some points. It also played on my biggest fear, that being things imitating people. That's my favorite favorite FAVORITE part of horror & it is not utilized well typically... except for in Smile. There's just something about it that catches me off-guard & unsettles me greatly. I thought the opening scene was extremely captivating & the 3rd act... genuinely the most scared I've been during a movie since Hereditary. I felt so claustrophobic bc of how close the shots of monstrosity were framed. I loved how Sosie portrayed Rose. To me, she was quite believeable & her fear & trauma levels were tangible. Overall, it just struck the perfect nerve for me. That combined with the creepy, unique soundtrack & great cinematography are just a chef's kiss from me. It was my perfect cup of tea! I can completely understand people not enjoying Smile, though. My opinion is probably super controversial bc I didn't enjoy It Follows 🤷♀️ I'll probably give it another shot, though :)
Bro had the most emotionally turbulent viewing experience of this movie conceivable and is still disappointed
Smile is what happens when you want to use mental health as a *prop* for the scares, not because you actually want to talk about how scary being mentally ill or traumatized is and can be, care more about the metaphor than anything else in the movie, and you have so little trust in the intelligence of the audience to understand that metaphor that you feel the need to hold their hand and walk them through it.
The theme of trauma and mental illness can be done well, especially in horror and suspense, but you have to pick exactly which mental illness you want to cover, not just lump it all under "crazy", then do intense research on that specific diagnosis and actually listen to people who live with it because the more accurate it is the more realistic, and sometimes the realistic depiction is scarier than anything in fiction. I even like the idea of the representation of these things smiling because after, or even sometimes as we're going through traumatic events and experiences or when mental health is declining, a lot of people will still smile to put on a brave face to hide their pain for various reasons, something people don't notice because its something we associate with being happy or okay, we see people do every day on the street, even as a courteous acknowledgement of others as we pass each other by, so we never know truly if it's a genuine smile or someone hiding their struggle, and an exaggerated impression of Willam Defoe if he played The Joker makes it too obvious, too goofy looking, and makes me giggle because all I can think of is that "we live in a society" line. Using a metaphor, even a universal one like mental health and trauma, isn't enough to make a horror movie good, or even interesting, and using it badly just leaves the audience with nothing. Smile, quite frankly, annoyed me as a writer, a movie goer, a psych student, and as a person who struggles with the central themes the whole movie is supposed to be about.
Ego Alert! Ego Alert!
facts
@@SjeheheDhshdh
Connor has an ego problem.
You and I clearly have different thresholds for what amount of camp is acceptable in an otherwise serious horror movie. I agree that the birthday scene was too dramatic and too cookie cutter, but other scenes you were critical of I thought were good.
"Maybe you could enjoy the movie if you stopped analyzing it" is such a weird comment. Analyzing a good story only makes it better, because then you experience both the emotions the story is meant to trigger AND the admiration of seeing a sophisticated well-tuned mechanism run.
As some who has been through what this movie is I believe is attempting to depict (ie, suicidal ideation, the hopelessness that leads to ending one’s life), this movie really affected me. Like, panic attack in the parking lot affected. The points that were made on Rose not communicating her issues to her loved ones can happen. The people around her just writing her off as crazy can happen. Her isolating herself in the cabin waiting for the pain to stop can happen.
Now, I’m not saying that I am the spokesperson of people that have felt this way, nor am I saying my experience is the one to measure to. Everyone who has felt this way has experienced it differently and while there are commonalities, no two people’s experience is the same. I know people have walked a similar path that didn’t like this movie, and that is totally fair. People who have experienced the thing the film is crafting an allegory for are not a monolith.
However, stating that you are “offended” that people liked or found the movie effective in its horror (6:45), whether jokingly or not, is kinda shitty. Of course you don’t have to like the movie, and I actually love to hear criticism of media that I liked to broaden my perspectives on what I consume. But speaking down to those that did like something you find schlocky or “bad” leaves the worst taste in my mouth. So you didn’t like it, great! So you made a video explaining why, excellent! You insult people that may have different tastes and experiences that inform how you watch and interpret a film, you lost me.
You also don’t take into account the people that like horror movies, but aren’t able to handle things that could be considered “high horror.” While I agree that Triple A studios do fund some pretty stupid movies, wouldn’t ever tell a person that they were dumb for liking it. Some people can’t handle Skinamirink (another film that deeply affected me because of lived experience), but can handle Tarot or Truth or Dare. So to piss on people that have different levels of horror tolerance and enjoy what you would consider “dumb horror” is not only elitist, but a truly boring and played out way of analyzing film that probably turns more people off the genre than brings them into it. And I say this as a horror fan that is also frustrated about the cash grab horror movies that are released in droves. But I can love The Exorcist, Get Out, and The Lighthouse, but still be affected by and enjoy films like Smile, The Conjuring, and Tarot. Not all horror needs to be groundbreaking, especially because the movies you call out as bad in this video could be someone’s intro to horror, and calling them dumb for liking them isn’t helping the horror genre’s case.
And while I do get the frustration of being told to just “turn your brain off,” a better term for this sentiment is to “suspend your disbelief.” This is more a theatre term, but the idea still stands for analysis in film. Yes, turning off your brain does impact your ability to analyze and appreciate a film; you can miss themes and flourishes that a director/writer/set designer/etc put into a shot or the very point of the film. The flip side of this is that being overly analytical can devoid a piece of any enjoyment whatsoever, and you can’t see why anyone could ever like it. You can allow yourself to let go of the logical and still be able to pickup on the intent of the piece. Now, I admit that there are some films where that is hard if not impossible to do, which is fair. But letting go of the logical could maybe help not make pariahs of those that like something you find “bad.”
Again, I’m not the end-all-be-all for wanting to jump off this mortal coil. But I personally thought this was an effective depiction of the slow and disastrous decent of seeing now way out of the pain that life brings, and just being to told to smile. While I can appreciate your criticism, what I don’t appreciate is being spoken down to because I found it affective.
TDLR: Don’t shit on people that like things you don’t. You’re likely to turn people off from the genre, and it’s insulting to forgo people experiences that inform why they like a film and make them feel like idiots. It’s elitist and does nothing to further the love of the genre.
“Turn your brain off and enjoy the movie” only works for things like Kids movies