Cig is changing what cig marketed the ship as. It is already nerfed by lack of armor and manuverability. Wallet is closed to cig until they stop these predatory business practice to sell more ships
star citizens player base is already at an all time low. cig still needs to tread lightly and not ignore the portion of players that they upset with these stupid nerfs. A lot of those people will stop playing
I could accept dropping the size of the two guns. But to take them away from the pilot is a direct betrayal of how they sold the ship. This is the last straw for me. Already started selling off my fleet in Star Hangar. F* you CIG
"nerfs" or balance changes for these type of things need to make sense , and people like myself see the slaving the fire of those guns to the copilot makes no sense as they are , a better option would be either turn those guns into another remote turret or the easier option for them would be to lower the size of the guns , those are logical changes .the moving forward facing guns to be fired by the copilot is not a logical change . its not good gameplay and just creates deadweight on the ship
They can argue it's too powerful but they cannot argue taking away six guns. Just reduce the size of the six guns. They have no idea what they're doing.
I don't think anyone has said anything about taking away all six guns. Anyways, it was an evo build. As someone who's actually evo? They throw a LOT of things at the wall in evocati that never make it in
@@DawnstealerGaming "They throw a LOT of things at the wall in evocati that never make it in" Makes sense. That's why I try not to get too worked up about evo leaks whether they be positive or negative.
An issue with changes is that the bigger picture is not exposed fully to backers even if all known inside CIG. The Redeemer had shields reduced in size and increased in number, for example. That can make sense knowing that the smaller components can be swapped-out in-flight once damaged in combat where the larger ones cannot, needing a trip to a space station: but how many people knew that? If this was part of CIG's thinking, it wasn't shared. So all backers saw was shields being reduced in size.
@@First_Chapter now that’s a good point - communicating the why behind their decisions, or communicating it ahead of time so people aren’t sideswiped, has always been a CIG issue
The fact this is a crowdfunded project, and we as a community have given so much funding, I feel like we should have more of a say whenever they make a decision like this.
I mean, they do have spectrum and the devs do respond there. But crowdfunding this project was giving money to Chris to make the game he’s wanted to make. We get a say, but at the end of the day, it’s CR’s game and CR’s call
You hit the nail on the head pretty much, I've got no concern over the fact that CIG changed the Corsair, we all agreed to them making changes when we accepted the ToS/EULA/etc, anyway, The matter in which they change stuff is important, though. I think giving the nose of the Corsair the downsize to gimballed S4s is the right compromise and leads to less work further down the line re-tooling the cockpit and model of the Corsair to accomodate another turret and rigging the functionality together. Assigning the two guns to the co-pilot arbitrarily frankly breaks with estabilished design paradigms applied to other ships and does not conform to the logic found throughout the rest of the game's balancing.
You forgot the fact that they mentioned that they did it because literally everyone in their grandma has this ship because we bought it for the fact that it can fight
There is one other solution that makes sense to me, but requires more work on the part of CIG. The two upper guns in front can remain in control of pilot, and two lower guns in nose placed in a chin turret for copilot. Having two guns that rely on the pilot to aim and copilot to fire is insane (as in truly stupid).
@DawnstealerGaming From what I've seen it seems to be a very consistent rumor. The ship question has 2 s4's too. Supposed to be 2 misc ships (if the rumors are true) I'm not a big Corsair player to begin with but it seems very suspicious. The final point is not that they changed it, it's how. (MM modes in my mind is really destroying the game) -But- stripping the guns from the pilot and giving it to Co's is completely insane. They could have stepped down the guns on the nose by 1 and the wings by 2.... It just seems like a completely nonsensical change. They at some point should tie weapons to power plants but I am not holding my breath on that lol.
8:30 I'm curious how they'll balance big multicrew ships vs small solo ships with engineering. Initial thoughts are that both ships will be able to engage in combat for the same amount of time but larger multicrew ships will have more staying power with the ability to damage control repair in a fight.
I think it'll eventually be with armor. Small solo ships just won't be able to penetrate the armor enough to really damage components. Probably anything S3 or smaller will be pointless to take against a cap ship. That's how I'd do it, anyways.
@@DawnstealerGaming I don't think I explained my question well. Let me rephrase it. How do you think engineering will be balanced so that someone can solo a solo or ship but discourage trying to solo a larger multicrew ship? With my staying power idea a larger ship will need that because they might not be able to effectively run from smaller faster ships.
Without dedicated anti fighter armaments, increasing multicrew guns projectile velocities, or making the turn rates on bigger ships better, fighters will still have a solid advantage without damage cut offs for armor. Say what you will about A1, but I think that is about the only thing he is being very honest about and he IS right. If all things are equal, fighters can just dodge crewed ships shots and get in free damage (likely disabling problematic turrets first). Crewed ships need to be able to outrange or otherwise close off their area of threat so that fighters cant just waltz into their blind spots. Because fighters are so quick and agile, by the time a turret has been brought to bear and fired its first shots, the fighter is already gone. And the fighter can just dance barely out of range (due to their smaller size and speed) and land all their shots while the bigger ship misses theirs (because the larger ship cant accelerate fast enough and their max speed is so slow they literally CANT dodge shots). As it stands, multi crew ships aren't going to be viable against other players almost entirely because of this. This wont be an issue for AI unless they change their behaviour to sit outside of enemy ship ranges, but at that point large ships will be more or less unplayable. We need flak, turrets need gun velocity buffs, and they need to make large ships more maneuverable on the nose (not necessarily in flight).
@@N0V-A42 Engineering will just draw out the larger ships lifespan. The damage that matters cant be repaired from inside the ship (ie losing guns), so with what I said earlier odds are you just fight until the fighter gets bored and leaves or until you literally cant fight back anymore.
@@youtopiadmin the connie has one less turret on its GUNSHIP then the corsair (admittedly built for pirating) does for exploration. Even with the corsairs nerf, and the connies turret upsizing, the corsair will still have more available firepower with a full crew than an andromeda will on the ship alone.
if they need to nerf the ship it would make more sense to me if they downsize the guns and not seperating them. copilot got enough stuff to do if engineering is in + turret.
And they'll be coming for the Connie next, I'm sure. They designed these ships for certain roles and certain power levels but that gimbal change broke a LOT of their metrics in that area, I'm guessing
This is probably the pitfall of the ships funding model. People get so literally and figuratively invested in the ship that changing it feels personal. Hard to step back and be objective about changes in that case. Even in an alpha project.
The problem is that they keep making changes in anticipation of other future changes. They make the game unplayable and too difficult to have fun. Then they leave it in that broken state and sell a new more powerful ship.
I’m a min-maxer, I try to maximise making aUEC for time spent in-game, which has been very painful after CIG doubled the cost of ships. I usually use my Retaliator on ERTs, but that has been nerfed with the disappearance of Northrock group bounties and combat beacons. What has remained in 3.23 and 3.24 is cargo loot. So to get your next shiny ship in-game, you need to grind Vaughn missions or ERTs for loot like Grasping Weevil Eggs, which is why you see Corsairs and Constellations dumped everywhere, especially at the scrapyards. With the nerf to the Corsair, players will simply move to the next meta and melt their Corsairs, or like me, CCU up to the Polaris
Northrock bounties are still there.. for me the mission only appeared only in Hurston, and never appeared in Crusader like it usually does... but once you clear it, the group bounties spawn in crusader, but be advised I did one earlier and only the 1st target appeared, on the other 2 drops none of the ships that appeared had the bounties name and despite taking them all out, I didnt succeed with the mission, this is an old bug I know...
@@DevilbyMoonlight thanks, I’ll try popping by Hurston in my Retaliator again. I usually have the yellow bounty marker disappear when I get close, but not the bounty name disappear, though I usually stay in Crusader, where I prefer to loot ships in Yela’s belt. I do encounter the bug where the location marker doesn’t spawn, if it’s above an outpost I usually QT there and the NPCs spawn in
You're self aware enough to know that yeah, you're chasing the min-max. You're not here in love with the sci-fi vision of the Corsair in the finished game, and you're self aware enough to know it. You will simply happily melt or CCU, no love lost. You are stand as an exemplar compared to all the people crying and moaning that the meta moves.
@@k0mm4nd3r_k3n The Corsair, in patch 3.24.1, is a ship specifically for taking out and looting large cargo ships and the Hammerhead, so it’s a pirates dream, but I’m not into the pirate roleplay. I can switch back to mining, or take up salvage as the meta moves on. The weapons nerf will add multi crew to make it more efficient, otherwise a solo pilot will take longer TTK. The Redeemer rebalance turns it into a fighter zestroyer with better manoeuvrability. FoxyLoxy just posted his PTU impressions.
I have owned the Corsair since its introduction. Cig sold it as a exploration ship but drake was always know as pirate focused. It's been my daily driver . The ship has always been a chore to fly due to its slow pitch, roll and yaw rates. Fighting light fighters was a challenge. A skilled pilot in an aurora could give you grief. If cig removes access to two size 5 guns for the pilot, it really sounds stupid. If this happens, I'll just think about melting it for something else. I do have many other ships like 890 reclaimer 600i and c1 c2, etc. Always come back to the corsair. If the make the stupid change I'll do the same.
Why do you want to nerf the ship even harder? The difference between 2x S5 and 4x S4's is 200 dps... Just get a friend and you'll have the same dps as before. The fuck is wrong with you people? Do you even play the same game we do?
“Two of my favorite ships are the Redeemer and Corsair. I’m having a lovely time with CIG as you can tell. What pisses me off is they have no problem with the Connie series. In fact they just up-gunned the Connie’s turrets. I’m so sick of you tubers saying crap like “it’s part of being in an alpha”, “just deal with it or go do something else”. Spineless responses to dealt with unethical treatment from a company that is WAY behind schedule and WAY over budget. How about a 3rd option of being extremely vocal in protest? Convincing other to also be vocal? Stop handing CIG money and stop pledging until backer concerns are addressed? All of that instead of “suck it up or do something else”. This is NOT a typical alpha project since backers have poured 100’s and $1000’s into this game each. That needs to be considered in your alpha. They are devaluing ships after they are already paid for. That is unethical whether they can legally do it or now. The Redeemer costs an expensive $330. After their coming changes this dedicated Gunship will be inferior in every stat and role to a $200 multi-role cargo hauler, the Taurus. That is ripping people off by making something worth far less after you’ve taken their money. Make balancing changes. That’s fine but a $330 ship still need to be WORTH $330 when you are done because people paid $330 of their hard earned money. Stop rolling over and showing your bellies to CIG and saying “it will do no good”. BS. It does no good because so much of the community takes that approach. Believe me. Hit their wallet and they WILL listen. They screw backers over and people still line up to consume more product only to be ripped off when they devalue that ship compared to others. Stop buying stuff until they address concerns. You hate MM’s? Let them know. Get other to as well and for god sakes stop feeding them money like their bitches. It embarrassingly took me way too long to wake up to CIG’s pattern of gross behavior of doing this just in time for new ship releases. They are not getting another penny from me.
corsair also has 2 additional pilot controlled size 4's from connie. Also connie was just fine with 2 size 4's and 2 size 5's. The change from size 4's to 5's was recent so i guess corsair is also fine? Id be fine with connie having 4 size 4's btw as those where the weapons it will come stock before the change and i never bothered switch them.
What you said is so confoundingly and stupid I just cant compute. The problem is not things need to be balanced but how this game is funded. CIG is unilaterally making changes to a contract, a purchase of goods and the reasonable expectation of that said good. Have they offered a refund or discount? The only thing CIG is doing is making it so you pump more money in this ‘game’ buying the next best thing. There is no way any EULA that agrees for you to except ‘any’ change to a purchased digital-good can stand in court. It doesn’t mean if it’s written it’s legal.
When u speak about the Concept of the Corsair, im misunderstanding it or...?? On all Concept Images, even today on the Homepage, the lower two front weapons are in a Turret like placed position - under the Gunner Seat instead of beside it. So basically i would assume its (will be) a rotating Turret The whole drama about the Pilot DPS is dumb - but i can "understand" it. But cmon, its an alpha and we get now step by step into the future with 1.0 at the end and an mmo in the next years. So stuff WILL Change - no matter what. Planes Change. A Concept changes in 5 years time. Its a Game. Its CRs Project we all can play - and if someone dont like it or even says "Its dumb, they dont know how do dev. the game - gib refund" .. I say: Then go and play some other games but SC is nothing for you it seems to me. People think they MUST challange the whole Verse alone. A Andromeda and Corsair are the only Ships that can/could solo a whole Idris atm.. Beside the Ares Ships but they a special build for such stuff - not like the Conni or Corsair so...
Yes. People also have a theory that there's a ship that's the same size as the Corsair dropping, so they're nerfing the Corsair so the new ship will be more powerful and people will buy it instead. Really, it's just balancing. That and I don't think there's actually a connie size ship dropping soon. Could be wrong, though.
Those are people who are emotionally primed to 'loss', so they engage in insane levels of confirmation bias when something is being 'taken away' from them, ignoring conflicting data that somethings are 'being given' too.
I’m wondering what they will do to the Connie, since it has less guns. Maybe just mess with the gimbals? Either way, I’ll roll with it when it happens. Not the first time I’ve had fire power etc messed with.
Why is it changing it at all, reducing the weapon size at all shouldn't be on the table unless they change the constellation series weapons size as well.
What I don't like about this fix is the fact that now the co-pilot have to choose between top turret or front turret. I honestly dont' like any of the ships that have more guns that stations shooting them. I could live with slaved guns that fire when they are within their ark, but having ships where guns stay silent even when fully crewed because the gunners have to choose which gun to fire is just bad in my oppinion.
This isn't the 1st time this has happened... a ship gets hyped and sold, and once a new one is in the wings it gets nerfed, I can see the marketing mindset here, look what they did to the Ion and also the Inferno.. the Inferno was sold as something that 'Turns light fighters to dust' and look at it... the Ion is a real mess how the hell can you get the dps on target effectively, I'm particularly pissed at what they did to my Omega, its a limited edition racer based on a mustang with an extra engine shoved in it with only 2 size1 guns and a paper hull, but it was fast and nimble, nimble enough to avoid fire, now a connie can come close to outrunning it.
I understand a nerf, but given cigs's track record it just causes a lot of problems to me, its bad game balance in the sense that the connie is already better in every aspect except fire power (and looks) the guns on the corsair were the only real thing it had going for it and even then it only had 2 size 4's more. so with this nerf it just crippled the corsair comparatively, youre essentially shooting yourself in the foot for using it instead of the connie now (the connie is also getting a buff to its turrets 🤦) Then its bad game design as in youre overwhelming one player with two different jobs that he has to focus on, and one of them isnt even engaging. He literally cannot aim the 2 size 5's. If they make the gun swivel that would be a tad better but then still, hes focusing on a remote turret as well as his manned turret. with how cig is, they will probably keep the connie as being the superior ship in everyway for about a year and then finally they might bring it down to the corsairs level, once it starts getting "too many kills" lol.
Easy... big guns = 180 deg forward. Small guns = 360 deg, but only needed backward or top side where the big ones don't shoot. Change with a button when needed. If Reclaimer users can manage 3 turrets on 1 console each, surely Drake fanbois are smart enough to handle just 2.
CIG: It's an alpha and things might change Also CIG: Buy this brand new fancy ship that has giant guns and will "punch up" for only $300. I understand that things will change but changing things that people spent a lot of money on, usually due to the things that they are changing, is a big deal. The redeemer isn't even the same role that it was when it was originally sold. Now it's an anti-fighter interceptor gunship, when before it was an anti-large gunship. I just wonder how many people wouldn't have bought it if that was what it was sold as.
Good thing they can trade in their ship for sure credit. It's not CIGs responsibility to make people be smart with their money. We all should know what we're getting into here
I don't know what to add, except that I agree with your opinions on the Corsair. Gimbled size 5's were a dumb idea, and taking away pilot operated weapons is also dumb. I'am biased in that I mostly operate my ships solo though.
@@COMMANDERHAWK22 the price was based on the old gimbals and fixed weapon balance. That doesn’t exist anymore. Price is fine: she’s still a fantastic ship and if they downsize the hardpoints, she’ll be EXACTLY as powerful as patches prior to the gimbal change
@@Shypa agreed. I think it’s pretty clear that having the copilot control half the noise guns is probably a no-go. That said, this is the kind of crazy stuff they drop in evo builds, and also why evo builds were previously under a complete info lockdown
brought the boo birds out on this one! I'm an odd bird. I dropped the Corsair because I didn't like the clearance. It's a beautiful ship. I do keep thinking about going back to it. There's a lived in feel to it that I like.
I no longer play this title for the second time..gave up on it at 3.16...picked it up again 5 months ago. Gave up on it two weeks ago....I'm done with it until they release 9if ever) the game @ version 1.0 if the title lasts that long.
The connies are probably going to be fine. The corsair had 6 Pilot guns, and 3 turrets with two guns each. Even at maximum power and INCLUDING the andromedas turret buff, the corsair still has twice the power overall compared to a connie (more of one size smaller is still generally better then less of one size bigger). That said, the Connie Andromeda is a full on GUNSHIP, whereas the corsair claims to be for exploration. Even accounting for the upsized turrets on the connie, the only major advantage the connie has over the corsair (even accounting for the nerf) is purely survivability because having an extra turret (even if its more or less stuck facing forward is technically letting the corsair target 4 targets at once as opposed to the connies 3 (or 2 on all other connies besides the andromeda). And if they were going to downsize the connies guns they would have done it when they upsized their turret guns.
@@TheModelOmega honestly? Me either. But they’re also making a playable demo, which sometimes means balancing for the game as it is rather than what they eventually want it to be. The Corsair with x4 S5s and x2 S4s on a solo ship was a bit much
Meh. Go with the flow or take a break. There are other ships to fly, and there will be many, many more ships to come, with the ongoing changes. This project demands regular reality checks, otherwise you're just hurting yourself.
Im just as big of a Corsair fan as anyone. Put your emotions aside and the Corsair has waaaay to powerful of a set of pilot controlled guns. It felt pointless to even have crew on the ship. They just are going about changing it the wrong way. They should just drop all the pilot controlled guns down 1 size and raise all the turrets up 1 size. This would keep the firepower while requiring crew to obtain that firepower.
i agree.. best solution is making all pilot controlled weapons size 4's in both connie and corsair... corsair will still have 2 more guns that connie to compensate for the connies higher hp and come in line with the drakes more weapons less armor history.... Basically cig was wrong to give every ship bigger guns making it impossible to balance. large ships should go max size 4, medium max size 3 etc. so things will make sense again.
Mr White knight for CIG. Look it not about over power. It about selling and advertising a ship for F-ing $250 or more and then change it down the road to sell other ship or because someone say certain ship is to op. I am sick and tired of hearing it in Alpha for any excuses for F-ing up game play or changing SHIPS WE ALREADY PAY FOR. Now you can White Knight for CIG All u want, but 12 years going on 13 years is not alpha it a project already failing.
I honestly rate it as a sign that Star Citizen has truly become successful. The amount of inane crying coming from man babies about the meta moving in a game development cycle is a genuine measure of success. These man babies aren't serious. They love having 'CIG' to cry about. You have to learn to just laugh at them and never take them seriously.
I think you missed the nail and hit your thumb The Corsair has so many people flying it because it's a cheap fighter ship Some people paid real life money to buy the ship. How it was And in one simple update months later. Oh it's two opinion. It was two op back then. Should have done it right away
I am not so upset that there IS a nerf. I am upset at how stupid the nerf is. Taking 2 of the front guns and making them COpilot only. as others have speculated: you just sit there and wait for the pilot to line up a shot, then you pull the trigger? it sounds like Ford says "oh, our car is so much better than Chevy, that we are going to put 1 of the tires under control of the passenger." too arbitrary, too artificial.
@@gergenskits3940 probably should have said this in the vid, but that nerf was in evocati. I mean, it wasn’t even the PTU. Given this blowback, I’m guessing they’ll go with a different option
The Corsair needed a nerf. It was a super dropship, gunship, cargo ship and could be solo'ed. It wasn't supposed to be that at concept. When armor is in-game, it can be rebalanced.
@@vik12D yup - exactly what I said in the vid. I’ve had this ship since concept and I never saw it as a redeemer rivaling warship it is in the current patch
@DawnstealerGaming I don't want to see it nefed into oblivion just balanced and serving in it's role. It could even be a glass cannon for all I care but as is...yikes. On the other hand, its nice to see the Valk getting some love.
@@vik12D I mean, it’s Drake, so it should be up-gunned, but 4 S5s + 2 S4s is…a lot. I’m not shocked they decided to clip that back a little. Still say the obvious fix is just reducing the final size by one. Then it’s exactly as strong as it was in the last patch
I never got the whole 'Drakes are over gunned' thing... the Cutlass has no more firepower than the Freelancer and back when these ships were dominant, this was just a standard. Also... I always thought it was weird that the gunner in the Corsair slide under the pilot and didn't even have control of the guns they are sitting between, why even have a window looking forward anyway? I was shocked when I got in this seat, switch on the turret and suddenly you're facing backwards, on top of the ship! From concept, it always felt like the whole point of that gunner's seat was to control the lower pair of guns on the Corsair's nose anyway. Funny thing is, people only use the Corsair for the firepower anyway... is it really that much of a 1 trick pony? Take away that one meta trait and suddenly no one is flying the Corsair?!?! That's a definitely cause for balancing, right there imo.
The Corsair feels home-like..almost firefly-like. sep rooms for the crew...held together by duct tape. It has personality. sep the nose weapons are stupid and problematic. It would be cooler to fly/land the ship from that chair. It makes me reconsider any ship for purchase....if it's a good design, does that put it on the list to cripple? Also, the new MFDs do not do it for me...especially the flash Gordon radar. It looks like it needs a tape deck, and now we have an 80s display. I think I will do a lot more running away in my corsair now.
Trolling Drake fans is lowkey the favorite pastime of CIG marketing. Not that this game will ever go live, but lets pretend it does. Drake will be the ship for lower-level pirate NPCs.
I've got 3500 pledged into the game, the corsair was my favorite ship. What they did to it is horrid! The model makes no sense with having thr copilot control the chin guns.. they already have component and the remote turret...
Everything they have changed the past two years sucks. All the old good devs left. The new flight model sucks. The new hangers suck with no trespass timer. The MFDS suck. The community sucks because they always praise changes no matter how bad they are. Chris could smear shit on their face and they say it was great. The balancing has always been lazy, inconstant and illogical. The game sucks now end of story and will only get worse without the old guys there. Stopped playing months ago after playing for over 10 years straight. In the garbage can it goes.
The Corsair is OP as hell. The dang thing had way way to much pilot controlled weapons. It had more firepower than anything else in game for 1 person. There was no reason to ever fly any ship and have anyone man any turret instead just bring a Corsair. The only people upset where the Meta Chasing Spreadsheet Jockeys. No better than the Stick Jockeys complaining about the Gladius being nerfed. Why crew a turret on a Polaris just bring a Corsair instead, why crew a turret on a Redeemer just bring a Corsair, why crew any ship with anyone just bring another Corsair. The nerf is not even close to enough. The current Corsair has more DPS than the projected turret on a Perseus. That is totally insane.
A nice balance view with a logical history leading up to this change. I can’t stand the hysteria around this subject. I think CIG have gone around it wrong and have come to all the wrong conclusions about how to resolve this issue (shock horror) and feel that 4 x pilot controlled S4’s was the right approach. I love the new Redeemer. It feels it did when it was first released before it got nerfed and when you consider it had the same shields as a HH but was a 1/4 of the size then the changes feel justified. Nice video earned a sub from me 👍
You mentioned the word “gimbal(s)” wayyy too frequently in this video, gimbals are irrelevant now, it’s mastermodes - and you’re still talking in old money. Nobody ever used gimbals, people used AUTO gimbal, that is now gone, so now the only viable option is fixed, regular gimbals (non-auto) are useless and always have been. The entire flight model for pilots is now fixed guns period
@@PlottingAnEscape I’ll say it’s a eithera skill issue or you just don’t fly the corsair then, because the extra play you get with the gimbals absolutely matters against smaller, more nimble fighters…if you know how to use them. You can run gimbals the same size as the hard point now so there’s literally no reason to pull the gimbals now.
@@DawnstealerGaming The point is you kept on saying "because gimbals", you even went on to say "the connie is next... because gimbals", you're right, but for the wrong reason, the gimbals are irrelevant. Think of it this way, gimbals used to have to be a size lower than fixed, fixed s5 OR gimbal s4 - that was the choice, but that was only due to AUTO gimbal, the word "gimbal" in star citizen for the last 10 years has strictly referred to AUTO gimbal, regular gimbal has been a largely ignored mode. The trade off with mastermodes (another dumb CIG decision) is - auto gimbals are removed, but regular gimbals can now be used with full size weapons... great... nobody cares about regular gimbals... they are useless... we want auto gimbals back, but great whatever. So what I'm saying is, you shouldn't even be mentioning the word gimbal in this video, it is irrelevant, the reason they think 4 s5 and 2 s4 pilot weapons is too much firepower... has got absolutely NOTHING to do with "regular" gimbals.
@@PlottingAnEscape Yeah, I get what you're saying. I'm also saying you're not correct. Autogimbals were fine for new players, but also OP for any experienced players, which is why CIG yanked them. But you keep using MM where you actually mean the flight model. Conflating the two is largely why I think you might just be parroting A1 without getting what he's actually talking about. What he's talking about absolutely applies to Interceptors, which can engage MM to NAV mode and boost away without consequences. It's very specific to light and medium fighters. MM is just switching between the different "modes" of a ship - at the moment, that's switching between SCM and NAV (and mining and salvage), and that'll grow over time. Again, the fact that you keep going to the "MM is bad" well kind of tells me you don't understand what MM is in relation to this topic. Anyways, I'm about to walk out the door to work, but let me leave you with this, and you can take this to A1 and ask him: You have two corsairs piloted by equally skilled pilots. Both are in SCM mode. One is running S5 gimbals and the other is running S5 fixed. Who will win the fight on average? The guy with fixed weapons? ...or the guy who can hold the target for an extra five degrees?
Shows how much the complainers know about the game... the difference between 2x S5 and 4x S4's is 200dps... Get a friend and you're back to the same massive DPS as before. Splitting them up also means half the guns on now different capacitors = more shots. It's a multi-crew ship in a multiplayer game, if you think about it and aren't biased about solo'ing everything, it's actually a buff, even more so if they make the co-pilot guns a turret.
People complaining about the corsair "nerf" surely have never looked at the front of it and thought " why is there a seat with glass view below the pilot with guns attached to it?" Ive been bashing on this since it came out, saying this was a last minute call, to sell more of it.. Frankly im surprized it took 2 years to correct this. For a ship of this size and it being drake, 6xs4`s for the pilot would not be unheard of imo. redesign the front and remove the lower station and slap a copilot seat behind the pilot for the rear turret and call it a day. As for the constallations (im looking at you taurus) kick off the 4xs5's, and use s4's instead. and remove the 24 s2 missile launchers for more cargo space.. its a hauler and not a gunship like the andro. The andro however, should stay as it is imo (no i dont have a andro, but i do have a taurus)
Totally - x6 S4s is about right for a Drake ship (or x4 S4s and 2 S3s). If they turned the thing into an actual nose turret, kind of like what the Redeemer has (but remote), it would be fine
@@DawnstealerGaming Guess we will have to wait to see what the cooks come up with 😼 A B17 style chin turret would have looked good on it i think, but with S2/S3 guns, and not the world ending S5`s it currently holds. *Runs away from corsair owners*
so I have thought about the corsair nerf for some time, and after looking over the dps per size and function and sadly, I actually agree with the nerf. :(
what does the Corsair now offer, that one of the Connies can't do while offering more? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm legit asking. I rock both the Connie and the Corsair, and I'm probably not going to get rid of it, but I dont know why I wouldn't grab the Andromeda for a mission from now on, other than the Corsair just looks dope as shit ( imho).
@@0311matt to be honest, I think the nerf the way the did it is dumb. I would have rather seen them take the guns off the wings and add more missles than the co pilot control. to me it is dumb. That being said, the corsair is like all the connies rolled into one. so instead of having to pick a varient, you have 1 ship that can manage all of the above. Thats just my opinion though.,
@@hirofortis I 100% agree with you on the changes. I would even be more happy with removing the guns on the wings and not adding anything, rather than splitting the guns the way they are talking. I can see your rationale for taking the Corsair, I wouldn't say that's wrong by any means, I think I buy more into picking a role and playing into its specific strength. So that's probably why I'm a bit more salty about it.
Idk. Each time my ship explode because a box move. Remind me it alpha. Or when I get out of bed in the wall. Or a unknown wreak ship in my hangar. Or my ship just lost when I log in. Well I always know that am in alpha
Cig is changing what cig marketed the ship as. It is already nerfed by lack of armor and manuverability. Wallet is closed to cig until they stop these predatory business practice to sell more ships
star citizens player base is already at an all time low. cig still needs to tread lightly and not ignore the portion of players that they upset with these stupid nerfs. A lot of those people will stop playing
I could accept dropping the size of the two guns. But to take them away from the pilot is a direct betrayal of how they sold the ship. This is the last straw for me. Already started selling off my fleet in Star Hangar. F* you CIG
Completely agree. What a joke.
I have already sold all my ships. I only kept the Titan, my starter. F* you CIG.
My friends, they still have your money :P
@@xxbeatleadxx way to point out the obvious, the point is to stop feeding the beast. Or you can continue boot licking, up to you.
I'm tired of CIGs "fixes," they just fuck everything up.
@@tyandy1424 if it helps, this was one test on an evo build - it wasn’t even the wider PTU
"nerfs" or balance changes for these type of things need to make sense , and people like myself see the slaving the fire of those guns to the copilot makes no sense as they are , a better option would be either turn those guns into another remote turret or the easier option for them would be to lower the size of the guns , those are logical changes .the moving forward facing guns to be fired by the copilot is not a logical change . its not good gameplay and just creates deadweight on the ship
I completely disagree with your assessment about the corsair being over powered. We live in the era of the hornet, which has roughly the same dps
The more I see of CIG’s ideas for the game, the more I wish somebody over there was actually a player
They can argue it's too powerful but they cannot argue taking away six guns. Just reduce the size of the six guns. They have no idea what they're doing.
I don't think anyone has said anything about taking away all six guns. Anyways, it was an evo build. As someone who's actually evo? They throw a LOT of things at the wall in evocati that never make it in
@@DawnstealerGaming "They throw a LOT of things at the wall in evocati that never make it in"
Makes sense. That's why I try not to get too worked up about evo leaks whether they be positive or negative.
@DawnstealerGaming it's in the PTU
An issue with changes is that the bigger picture is not exposed fully to backers even if all known inside CIG. The Redeemer had shields reduced in size and increased in number, for example. That can make sense knowing that the smaller components can be swapped-out in-flight once damaged in combat where the larger ones cannot, needing a trip to a space station: but how many people knew that? If this was part of CIG's thinking, it wasn't shared. So all backers saw was shields being reduced in size.
@@First_Chapter now that’s a good point - communicating the why behind their decisions, or communicating it ahead of time so people aren’t sideswiped, has always been a CIG issue
The fact this is a crowdfunded project, and we as a community have given so much funding, I feel like we should have more of a say whenever they make a decision like this.
I mean, they do have spectrum and the devs do respond there. But crowdfunding this project was giving money to Chris to make the game he’s wanted to make. We get a say, but at the end of the day, it’s CR’s game and CR’s call
@@DawnstealerGaming true
Like you said in the up above bits, things will be changing for some time to come. If you are chasing the meta, you are in for a bumpy ride.
The people moaning and crying never loved the Corsair, they loved the meta. Dawnstealer is a real Corsair lover.
You hit the nail on the head pretty much, I've got no concern over the fact that CIG changed the Corsair, we all agreed to them making changes when we accepted the ToS/EULA/etc, anyway, The matter in which they change stuff is important, though. I think giving the nose of the Corsair the downsize to gimballed S4s is the right compromise and leads to less work further down the line re-tooling the cockpit and model of the Corsair to accomodate another turret and rigging the functionality together. Assigning the two guns to the co-pilot arbitrarily frankly breaks with estabilished design paradigms applied to other ships and does not conform to the logic found throughout the rest of the game's balancing.
You forgot the fact that they mentioned that they did it because literally everyone in their grandma has this ship because we bought it for the fact that it can fight
@@everythingpony Well that's just one hand not knowing what the other's doing.. and that's one thing CIG will never change.
There is one other solution that makes sense to me, but requires more work on the part of CIG. The two upper guns in front can remain in control of pilot, and two lower guns in nose placed in a chin turret for copilot. Having two guns that rely on the pilot to aim and copilot to fire is insane (as in truly stupid).
Its happening now because they have a competition in the ship sale coming in Citizen Con.
The Misc Starlancer or whatever the hell its called.
@@briangueringer3673 nah - that’s a rumor I’ve seen kick up a lot. It’s likely BS. The Corsair was wildly OP this patch and it was obvious
@DawnstealerGaming From what I've seen it seems to be a very consistent rumor.
The ship question has 2 s4's too.
Supposed to be 2 misc ships (if the rumors are true)
I'm not a big Corsair player to begin with but it seems very suspicious.
The final point is not that they changed it, it's how.
(MM modes in my mind is really destroying the game)
-But- stripping the guns from the pilot and giving it to Co's is completely insane.
They could have stepped down the guns on the nose by 1 and the wings by 2....
It just seems like a completely nonsensical change.
They at some point should tie weapons to power plants but I am not holding my breath on that lol.
8:30 I'm curious how they'll balance big multicrew ships vs small solo ships with engineering. Initial thoughts are that both ships will be able to engage in combat for the same amount of time but larger multicrew ships will have more staying power with the ability to damage control repair in a fight.
I think it'll eventually be with armor. Small solo ships just won't be able to penetrate the armor enough to really damage components. Probably anything S3 or smaller will be pointless to take against a cap ship. That's how I'd do it, anyways.
@@DawnstealerGaming I don't think I explained my question well. Let me rephrase it. How do you think engineering will be balanced so that someone can solo a solo or ship but discourage trying to solo a larger multicrew ship?
With my staying power idea a larger ship will need that because they might not be able to effectively run from smaller faster ships.
Without dedicated anti fighter armaments, increasing multicrew guns projectile velocities, or making the turn rates on bigger ships better, fighters will still have a solid advantage without damage cut offs for armor. Say what you will about A1, but I think that is about the only thing he is being very honest about and he IS right. If all things are equal, fighters can just dodge crewed ships shots and get in free damage (likely disabling problematic turrets first). Crewed ships need to be able to outrange or otherwise close off their area of threat so that fighters cant just waltz into their blind spots.
Because fighters are so quick and agile, by the time a turret has been brought to bear and fired its first shots, the fighter is already gone. And the fighter can just dance barely out of range (due to their smaller size and speed) and land all their shots while the bigger ship misses theirs (because the larger ship cant accelerate fast enough and their max speed is so slow they literally CANT dodge shots).
As it stands, multi crew ships aren't going to be viable against other players almost entirely because of this. This wont be an issue for AI unless they change their behaviour to sit outside of enemy ship ranges, but at that point large ships will be more or less unplayable. We need flak, turrets need gun velocity buffs, and they need to make large ships more maneuverable on the nose (not necessarily in flight).
@@N0V-A42 Engineering will just draw out the larger ships lifespan. The damage that matters cant be repaired from inside the ship (ie losing guns), so with what I said earlier odds are you just fight until the fighter gets bored and leaves or until you literally cant fight back anymore.
connie shakeiing in the corner being the next
connie was fine with 2s 4's and 2s 5's. That is what corsair has rn.
@@youtopiadmin the connie has one less turret on its GUNSHIP then the corsair (admittedly built for pirating) does for exploration. Even with the corsairs nerf, and the connies turret upsizing, the corsair will still have more available firepower with a full crew than an andromeda will on the ship alone.
@@ThreeGoddesses don't worry they will nerf it so you buy the next one. Same for medical, mining, salvage. You name it, they nerf it.
if they need to nerf the ship it would make more sense to me if they downsize the guns and not seperating them. copilot got enough stuff to do if engineering is in + turret.
@@PQKnuckles yep
To alleviate the poor turn rate for small ships use boost turns with de-couple
Given the Redeemer nerfs it’s not surprising that they came for the Corsair.
Redeemer, Are's, Ion, Gladiator...etc
And they'll be coming for the Connie next, I'm sure. They designed these ships for certain roles and certain power levels but that gimbal change broke a LOT of their metrics in that area, I'm guessing
@@DawnstealerGaming Hell I wouldn't be surprised if the gun size on the Perseus is downed to 6.
@@Puerkl8r dont you give those bastards any ideas!
@@Puerkl8rok, hey now. Calm down with that talk :P
The co-pilot already has access to the top turret though what are they going to do with that then 🤔
Reclaimer gunners have 3 turrets each... i think the co-pilot can manage 2.
When the Misc 'Fortune' is shown off, I want someone to reference the 'Oh Arthur Fortune!' scene from the Simpsons.
This is probably the pitfall of the ships funding model. People get so literally and figuratively invested in the ship that changing it feels personal. Hard to step back and be objective about changes in that case. Even in an alpha project.
Well put.
The problem is that they keep making changes in anticipation of other future changes. They make the game unplayable and too difficult to have fun. Then they leave it in that broken state and sell a new more powerful ship.
I’m a min-maxer, I try to maximise making aUEC for time spent in-game, which has been very painful after CIG doubled the cost of ships. I usually use my Retaliator on ERTs, but that has been nerfed with the disappearance of Northrock group bounties and combat beacons. What has remained in 3.23 and 3.24 is cargo loot. So to get your next shiny ship in-game, you need to grind Vaughn missions or ERTs for loot like Grasping Weevil Eggs, which is why you see Corsairs and Constellations dumped everywhere, especially at the scrapyards.
With the nerf to the Corsair, players will simply move to the next meta and melt their Corsairs, or like me, CCU up to the Polaris
Northrock bounties are still there.. for me the mission only appeared only in Hurston, and never appeared in Crusader like it usually does... but once you clear it, the group bounties spawn in crusader, but be advised I did one earlier and only the 1st target appeared, on the other 2 drops none of the ships that appeared had the bounties name and despite taking them all out, I didnt succeed with the mission, this is an old bug I know...
@@DevilbyMoonlight thanks, I’ll try popping by Hurston in my Retaliator again. I usually have the yellow bounty marker disappear when I get close, but not the bounty name disappear, though I usually stay in Crusader, where I prefer to loot ships in Yela’s belt.
I do encounter the bug where the location marker doesn’t spawn, if it’s above an outpost I usually QT there and the NPCs spawn in
You're self aware enough to know that yeah, you're chasing the min-max. You're not here in love with the sci-fi vision of the Corsair in the finished game, and you're self aware enough to know it. You will simply happily melt or CCU, no love lost. You are stand as an exemplar compared to all the people crying and moaning that the meta moves.
@@k0mm4nd3r_k3n The Corsair, in patch 3.24.1, is a ship specifically for taking out and looting large cargo ships and the Hammerhead, so it’s a pirates dream, but I’m not into the pirate roleplay. I can switch back to mining, or take up salvage as the meta moves on.
The weapons nerf will add multi crew to make it more efficient, otherwise a solo pilot will take longer TTK. The Redeemer rebalance turns it into a fighter zestroyer with better manoeuvrability. FoxyLoxy just posted his PTU impressions.
I have owned the Corsair since its introduction. Cig sold it as a exploration ship but drake was always know as pirate focused. It's been my daily driver . The ship has always been a chore to fly due to its slow pitch, roll and yaw rates. Fighting light fighters was a challenge. A skilled pilot in an aurora could give you grief. If cig removes access to two size 5 guns for the pilot, it really sounds stupid. If this happens, I'll just think about melting it for something else. I do have many other ships like 890 reclaimer 600i and c1 c2, etc. Always come back to the corsair. If the make the stupid change I'll do the same.
agree completely on the gimbal change
There was an obvious fix for this. Downsize guns. But wtf is this.
Why do you want to nerf the ship even harder? The difference between 2x S5 and 4x S4's is 200 dps... Just get a friend and you'll have the same dps as before. The fuck is wrong with you people? Do you even play the same game we do?
“Two of my favorite ships are the Redeemer and Corsair. I’m having a lovely time with CIG as you can tell. What pisses me off is they have no problem with the Connie series. In fact they just up-gunned the Connie’s turrets. I’m so sick of you tubers saying crap like “it’s part of being in an alpha”, “just deal with it or go do something else”. Spineless responses to dealt with unethical treatment from a company that is WAY behind schedule and WAY over budget. How about a 3rd option of being extremely vocal in protest? Convincing other to also be vocal? Stop handing CIG money and stop pledging until backer concerns are addressed? All of that instead of “suck it up or do something else”. This is NOT a typical alpha project since backers have poured 100’s and $1000’s into this game each. That needs to be considered in your alpha. They are devaluing ships after they are already paid for. That is unethical whether they can legally do it or now. The Redeemer costs an expensive $330. After their coming changes this dedicated Gunship will be inferior in every stat and role to a $200 multi-role cargo hauler, the Taurus. That is ripping people off by making something worth far less after you’ve taken their money. Make balancing changes. That’s fine but a $330 ship still need to be WORTH $330 when you are done because people paid $330 of their hard earned money. Stop rolling over and showing your bellies to CIG and saying “it will do no good”. BS. It does no good because so much of the community takes that approach. Believe me. Hit their wallet and they WILL listen. They screw backers over and people still line up to consume more product only to be ripped off when they devalue that ship compared to others. Stop buying stuff until they address concerns. You hate MM’s? Let them know. Get other to as well and for god sakes stop feeding them money like their bitches. It embarrassingly took me way too long to wake up to CIG’s pattern of gross behavior of doing this just in time for new ship releases. They are not getting another penny from me.
NO, you have to throat CIGs blatant bait and switch tactics and when they nerf stuff you paid for, punish them by giving them more money. I R SMART
corsair also has 2 additional pilot controlled size 4's from connie. Also connie was just fine with 2 size 4's and 2 size 5's. The change from size 4's to 5's was recent so i guess corsair is also fine?
Id be fine with connie having 4 size 4's btw as those where the weapons it will come stock before the change and i never bothered switch them.
What you said is so confoundingly and stupid I just cant compute. The problem is not things need to be balanced but how this game is funded. CIG is unilaterally making changes to a contract, a purchase of goods and the reasonable expectation of that said good. Have they offered a refund or discount? The only thing CIG is doing is making it so you pump more money in this ‘game’ buying the next best thing. There is no way any EULA that agrees for you to except ‘any’ change to a purchased digital-good can stand in court. It doesn’t mean if it’s written it’s legal.
Except your not purchasing the ship as advertised and I'm almost certain they have a disclaimer saying that things are likely to change.
Lol. Your point about the Connie - center pilot gets 2, left pilot gets 1, right pilot gets 1 😂
When u speak about the Concept of the Corsair, im misunderstanding it or...?? On all Concept Images, even today on the Homepage, the lower two front weapons are in a Turret like placed position - under the Gunner Seat instead of beside it. So basically i would assume its (will be) a rotating Turret
The whole drama about the Pilot DPS is dumb - but i can "understand" it. But cmon, its an alpha and we get now step by step into the future with 1.0 at the end and an mmo in the next years. So stuff WILL Change - no matter what. Planes Change. A Concept changes in 5 years time. Its a Game. Its CRs Project we all can play - and if someone dont like it or even says "Its dumb, they dont know how do dev. the game - gib refund" .. I say: Then go and play some other games but SC is nothing for you it seems to me. People think they MUST challange the whole Verse alone. A Andromeda and Corsair are the only Ships that can/could solo a whole Idris atm.. Beside the Ares Ships but they a special build for such stuff - not like the Conni or Corsair so...
Yup - people who don't realize that this kind of balancing will be going on long after the game is fully released are in for a bad, bad time, I think
2:15 Is that why people are screaming "CIG always nerfs ships after release!"?
Yes. People also have a theory that there's a ship that's the same size as the Corsair dropping, so they're nerfing the Corsair so the new ship will be more powerful and people will buy it instead. Really, it's just balancing. That and I don't think there's actually a connie size ship dropping soon. Could be wrong, though.
Those are people who are emotionally primed to 'loss', so they engage in insane levels of confirmation bias when something is being 'taken away' from them, ignoring conflicting data that somethings are 'being given' too.
It still looks like a beautiful ship.
@@BC-vv3ot it’s absolutely one of my favorites in the game
@@DawnstealerGaming drake holds a special place in my heart and wallet
I’m wondering what they will do to the Connie, since it has less guns. Maybe just mess with the gimbals?
Either way, I’ll roll with it when it happens. Not the first time I’ve had fire power etc messed with.
they are downsizing the Connie's guns to 4s, but upgunning the turrets to 2xs3. or at least thats the last i heard.
Has CIG actually confirmed the nerf is happening?
Why is it changing it at all, reducing the weapon size at all shouldn't be on the table unless they change the constellation series weapons size as well.
What I don't like about this fix is the fact that now the co-pilot have to choose between top turret or front turret. I honestly dont' like any of the ships that have more guns that stations shooting them. I could live with slaved guns that fire when they are within their ark, but having ships where guns stay silent even when fully crewed because the gunners have to choose which gun to fire is just bad in my oppinion.
That’s fine whatever they do. I’m just not playing until I think the game is where it feels fun
This isn't the 1st time this has happened... a ship gets hyped and sold, and once a new one is in the wings it gets nerfed, I can see the marketing mindset here, look what they did to the Ion and also the Inferno.. the Inferno was sold as something that 'Turns light fighters to dust' and look at it... the Ion is a real mess how the hell can you get the dps on target effectively, I'm particularly pissed at what they did to my Omega, its a limited edition racer based on a mustang with an extra engine shoved in it with only 2 size1 guns and a paper hull, but it was fast and nimble, nimble enough to avoid fire, now a connie can come close to outrunning it.
I understand a nerf, but given cigs's track record it just causes a lot of problems to me, its bad game balance in the sense that the connie is already better in every aspect except fire power (and looks) the guns on the corsair were the only real thing it had going for it and even then it only had 2 size 4's more. so with this nerf it just crippled the corsair comparatively, youre essentially shooting yourself in the foot for using it instead of the connie now (the connie is also getting a buff to its turrets 🤦)
Then its bad game design as in youre overwhelming one player with two different jobs that he has to focus on, and one of them isnt even engaging. He literally cannot aim the 2 size 5's.
If they make the gun swivel that would be a tad better but then still, hes focusing on a remote turret as well as his manned turret.
with how cig is, they will probably keep the connie as being the superior ship in everyway for about a year and then finally they might bring it down to the corsairs level, once it starts getting "too many kills" lol.
Easy... big guns = 180 deg forward. Small guns = 360 deg, but only needed backward or top side where the big ones don't shoot. Change with a button when needed. If Reclaimer users can manage 3 turrets on 1 console each, surely Drake fanbois are smart enough to handle just 2.
CIG: It's an alpha and things might change
Also CIG: Buy this brand new fancy ship that has giant guns and will "punch up" for only $300.
I understand that things will change but changing things that people spent a lot of money on, usually due to the things that they are changing, is a big deal. The redeemer isn't even the same role that it was when it was originally sold. Now it's an anti-fighter interceptor gunship, when before it was an anti-large gunship. I just wonder how many people wouldn't have bought it if that was what it was sold as.
Good thing they can trade in their ship for sure credit. It's not CIGs responsibility to make people be smart with their money. We all should know what we're getting into here
I don't know what to add, except that I agree with your opinions on the Corsair. Gimbled size 5's were a dumb idea, and taking away pilot operated weapons is also dumb. I'am biased in that I mostly operate my ships solo though.
balance the price then.
@@COMMANDERHAWK22 the price was based on the old gimbals and fixed weapon balance. That doesn’t exist anymore. Price is fine: she’s still a fantastic ship and if they downsize the hardpoints, she’ll be EXACTLY as powerful as patches prior to the gimbal change
No argument here
If the Copilot seat would have been turned into a manned ball turret it would have fitted the ship way better. Fixed guns for the Copilot are aweful
@@Shypa agreed. I think it’s pretty clear that having the copilot control half the noise guns is probably a no-go. That said, this is the kind of crazy stuff they drop in evo builds, and also why evo builds were previously under a complete info lockdown
brought the boo birds out on this one! I'm an odd bird. I dropped the Corsair because I didn't like the clearance. It's a beautiful ship. I do keep thinking about going back to it. There's a lived in feel to it that I like.
why does the pilot have control over the guns in the first place??? pointless turret design
I'm okay with the pilot having control over the majority of the guns in the Drake ship, but agreed that the side turrets are...weird.
I no longer play this title for the second time..gave up on it at 3.16...picked it up again 5 months ago. Gave up on it two weeks ago....I'm done with it until they release 9if ever) the game @ version 1.0 if the title lasts that long.
The connies are probably going to be fine. The corsair had 6 Pilot guns, and 3 turrets with two guns each. Even at maximum power and INCLUDING the andromedas turret buff, the corsair still has twice the power overall compared to a connie (more of one size smaller is still generally better then less of one size bigger). That said, the Connie Andromeda is a full on GUNSHIP, whereas the corsair claims to be for exploration. Even accounting for the upsized turrets on the connie, the only major advantage the connie has over the corsair (even accounting for the nerf) is purely survivability because having an extra turret (even if its more or less stuck facing forward is technically letting the corsair target 4 targets at once as opposed to the connies 3 (or 2 on all other connies besides the andromeda).
And if they were going to downsize the connies guns they would have done it when they upsized their turret guns.
Pilot and copilot= now separate energy pools for bespoke weaps; pilot =0 shots but copilot can fire;-)
I don't understand the reasoning behind nerfing--sorry, "balancing"--the Corsair, when armor hasn't been introduced yet.
@@TheModelOmega honestly? Me either. But they’re also making a playable demo, which sometimes means balancing for the game as it is rather than what they eventually want it to be. The Corsair with x4 S5s and x2 S4s on a solo ship was a bit much
Meh. Go with the flow or take a break. There are other ships to fly, and there will be many, many more ships to come, with the ongoing changes. This project demands regular reality checks, otherwise you're just hurting yourself.
@@Bell_the_Cat exxxxxxactly.
By their logic every ship in game should be the same firepower lol
It still has better firepower. Fix the Ion; that nerf made it unplayable.
Im just as big of a Corsair fan as anyone. Put your emotions aside and the Corsair has waaaay to powerful of a set of pilot controlled guns. It felt pointless to even have crew on the ship. They just are going about changing it the wrong way. They should just drop all the pilot controlled guns down 1 size and raise all the turrets up 1 size. This would keep the firepower while requiring crew to obtain that firepower.
Yup - exactly what I said. Totally agreed: it'll bring it back to the power level of the previous patch, where it notably was not OP
100% agree
i agree.. best solution is making all pilot controlled weapons size 4's in both connie and corsair... corsair will still have 2 more guns that connie to compensate for the connies higher hp and come in line with the drakes more weapons less armor history....
Basically cig was wrong to give every ship bigger guns making it impossible to balance.
large ships should go max size 4, medium max size 3 etc. so things will make sense again.
Mr White knight for CIG. Look it not about over power. It about selling and advertising a ship for F-ing $250 or more and then change it down the road to sell other ship or because someone say certain ship is to op. I am sick and tired of hearing it in Alpha for any excuses for F-ing up game play or changing SHIPS WE ALREADY PAY FOR. Now you can White Knight for CIG All u want, but 12 years going on 13 years is not alpha it a project already failing.
Reading the comments it's kinda wild. Reminding me of the size 9 torpedo speed decrease. They are testing things in the test server. Calm down, people
I honestly rate it as a sign that Star Citizen has truly become successful. The amount of inane crying coming from man babies about the meta moving in a game development cycle is a genuine measure of success.
These man babies aren't serious. They love having 'CIG' to cry about. You have to learn to just laugh at them and never take them seriously.
I think you missed the nail and hit your thumb
The Corsair has so many people flying it because it's a cheap fighter ship
Some people paid real life money to buy the ship. How it was
And in one simple update months later. Oh it's two opinion. It was two op back then. Should have done it right away
I am not so upset that there IS a nerf. I am upset at how stupid the nerf is. Taking 2 of the front guns and making them COpilot only. as others have speculated: you just sit there and wait for the pilot to line up a shot, then you pull the trigger?
it sounds like Ford says "oh, our car is so much better than Chevy, that we are going to put 1 of the tires under control of the passenger."
too arbitrary, too artificial.
@@gergenskits3940 probably should have said this in the vid, but that nerf was in evocati. I mean, it wasn’t even the PTU. Given this blowback, I’m guessing they’ll go with a different option
The Corsair needed a nerf. It was a super dropship, gunship, cargo ship and could be solo'ed. It wasn't supposed to be that at concept. When armor is in-game, it can be rebalanced.
@@vik12D yup - exactly what I said in the vid. I’ve had this ship since concept and I never saw it as a redeemer rivaling warship it is in the current patch
@DawnstealerGaming I don't want to see it nefed into oblivion just balanced and serving in it's role. It could even be a glass cannon for all I care but as is...yikes. On the other hand, its nice to see the Valk getting some love.
@@vik12D I mean, it’s Drake, so it should be up-gunned, but 4 S5s + 2 S4s is…a lot. I’m not shocked they decided to clip that back a little. Still say the obvious fix is just reducing the final size by one. Then it’s exactly as strong as it was in the last patch
I never got the whole 'Drakes are over gunned' thing... the Cutlass has no more firepower than the Freelancer and back when these ships were dominant, this was just a standard.
Also... I always thought it was weird that the gunner in the Corsair slide under the pilot and didn't even have control of the guns they are sitting between, why even have a window looking forward anyway? I was shocked when I got in this seat, switch on the turret and suddenly you're facing backwards, on top of the ship! From concept, it always felt like the whole point of that gunner's seat was to control the lower pair of guns on the Corsair's nose anyway. Funny thing is, people only use the Corsair for the firepower anyway... is it really that much of a 1 trick pony? Take away that one meta trait and suddenly no one is flying the Corsair?!?! That's a definitely cause for balancing, right there imo.
Thank goodness this thing got a nurf!
The Corsair feels home-like..almost firefly-like. sep rooms for the crew...held together by duct tape. It has personality. sep the nose weapons are stupid and problematic. It would be cooler to fly/land the ship from that chair. It makes me reconsider any ship for purchase....if it's a good design, does that put it on the list to cripple? Also, the new MFDs do not do it for me...especially the flash Gordon radar. It looks like it needs a tape deck, and now we have an 80s display. I think I will do a lot more running away in my corsair now.
Trolling Drake fans is lowkey the favorite pastime of CIG marketing. Not that this game will ever go live, but lets pretend it does. Drake will be the ship for lower-level pirate NPCs.
I've got 3500 pledged into the game, the corsair was my favorite ship. What they did to it is horrid! The model makes no sense with having thr copilot control the chin guns.. they already have component and the remote turret...
@@piranhax6466 agreed that’s a dumb decision, but I also don’t think it’ll be the final decision
I also call my corsair by name and not "Corsair" Mines is called the Emerald Duchess.
That's an awesome name for a Corsair
Everything they have changed the past two years sucks. All the old good devs left. The new flight model sucks. The new hangers suck with no trespass timer. The MFDS suck. The community sucks because they always praise changes no matter how bad they are. Chris could smear shit on their face and they say it was great. The balancing has always been lazy, inconstant and illogical. The game sucks now end of story and will only get worse without the old guys there. Stopped playing months ago after playing for over 10 years straight. In the garbage can it goes.
It’s almost as if the lower nose guns weren’t originally designed to be on a co pilot controlled TURRET.
the game is in alpha for to long. backers are getting old. old people don't like changes (joke)
The Corsair is OP as hell. The dang thing had way way to much pilot controlled weapons. It had more firepower than anything else in game for 1 person. There was no reason to ever fly any ship and have anyone man any turret instead just bring a Corsair. The only people upset where the Meta Chasing Spreadsheet Jockeys. No better than the Stick Jockeys complaining about the Gladius being nerfed. Why crew a turret on a Polaris just bring a Corsair instead, why crew a turret on a Redeemer just bring a Corsair, why crew any ship with anyone just bring another Corsair. The nerf is not even close to enough. The current Corsair has more DPS than the projected turret on a Perseus. That is totally insane.
It wasn't....awful...in the previous patch, but in the current one? Yeah - it's ridiculous. OF COURSE they were going to realign it.
A nice balance view with a logical history leading up to this change. I can’t stand the hysteria around this subject. I think CIG have gone around it wrong and have come to all the wrong conclusions about how to resolve this issue (shock horror) and feel that 4 x pilot controlled S4’s was the right approach. I love the new Redeemer. It feels it did when it was first released before it got nerfed and when you consider it had the same shields as a HH but was a 1/4 of the size then the changes feel justified. Nice video earned a sub from me 👍
You mentioned the word “gimbal(s)” wayyy too frequently in this video, gimbals are irrelevant now, it’s mastermodes - and you’re still talking in old money.
Nobody ever used gimbals, people used AUTO gimbal, that is now gone, so now the only viable option is fixed, regular gimbals (non-auto) are useless and always have been.
The entire flight model for pilots is now fixed guns period
@@PlottingAnEscape I’ll say it’s a eithera skill issue or you just don’t fly the corsair then, because the extra play you get with the gimbals absolutely matters against smaller, more nimble fighters…if you know how to use them. You can run gimbals the same size as the hard point now so there’s literally no reason to pull the gimbals now.
@@DawnstealerGaming The point is you kept on saying "because gimbals", you even went on to say "the connie is next... because gimbals", you're right, but for the wrong reason, the gimbals are irrelevant.
Think of it this way, gimbals used to have to be a size lower than fixed, fixed s5 OR gimbal s4 - that was the choice, but that was only due to AUTO gimbal, the word "gimbal" in star citizen for the last 10 years has strictly referred to AUTO gimbal, regular gimbal has been a largely ignored mode.
The trade off with mastermodes (another dumb CIG decision) is - auto gimbals are removed, but regular gimbals can now be used with full size weapons... great... nobody cares about regular gimbals... they are useless... we want auto gimbals back, but great whatever.
So what I'm saying is, you shouldn't even be mentioning the word gimbal in this video, it is irrelevant, the reason they think 4 s5 and 2 s4 pilot weapons is too much firepower... has got absolutely NOTHING to do with "regular" gimbals.
@@PlottingAnEscape Yeah, I get what you're saying. I'm also saying you're not correct.
Autogimbals were fine for new players, but also OP for any experienced players, which is why CIG yanked them.
But you keep using MM where you actually mean the flight model. Conflating the two is largely why I think you might just be parroting A1 without getting what he's actually talking about. What he's talking about absolutely applies to Interceptors, which can engage MM to NAV mode and boost away without consequences. It's very specific to light and medium fighters.
MM is just switching between the different "modes" of a ship - at the moment, that's switching between SCM and NAV (and mining and salvage), and that'll grow over time. Again, the fact that you keep going to the "MM is bad" well kind of tells me you don't understand what MM is in relation to this topic.
Anyways, I'm about to walk out the door to work, but let me leave you with this, and you can take this to A1 and ask him:
You have two corsairs piloted by equally skilled pilots. Both are in SCM mode. One is running S5 gimbals and the other is running S5 fixed. Who will win the fight on average?
The guy with fixed weapons? ...or the guy who can hold the target for an extra five degrees?
Nerf? It was always ridiculous that it had 4xS5s to start with. But what they should have done is just leave them pilot controlled and all S4s
@@Kiwi_Dave might want to watch the vid
Shows how much the complainers know about the game... the difference between 2x S5 and 4x S4's is 200dps... Get a friend and you're back to the same massive DPS as before. Splitting them up also means half the guns on now different capacitors = more shots. It's a multi-crew ship in a multiplayer game, if you think about it and aren't biased about solo'ing everything, it's actually a buff, even more so if they make the co-pilot guns a turret.
People complaining about the corsair "nerf" surely have never looked at the front of it and thought " why is there a seat with glass view below the pilot with guns attached to it?" Ive been bashing on this since it came out, saying this was a last minute call, to sell more of it.. Frankly im surprized it took 2 years to correct this. For a ship of this size and it being drake, 6xs4`s for the pilot would not be unheard of imo. redesign the front and remove the lower station and slap a copilot seat behind the pilot for the rear turret and call it a day. As for the constallations (im looking at you taurus) kick off the 4xs5's, and use s4's instead. and remove the 24 s2 missile launchers for more cargo space.. its a hauler and not a gunship like the andro. The andro however, should stay as it is imo (no i dont have a andro, but i do have a taurus)
Totally - x6 S4s is about right for a Drake ship (or x4 S4s and 2 S3s). If they turned the thing into an actual nose turret, kind of like what the Redeemer has (but remote), it would be fine
@@DawnstealerGaming Guess we will have to wait to see what the cooks come up with 😼 A B17 style chin turret would have looked good on it i think, but with S2/S3 guns, and not the world ending S5`s it currently holds.
*Runs away from corsair owners*
so I have thought about the corsair nerf for some time, and after looking over the dps per size and function and sadly, I actually agree with the nerf. :(
what does the Corsair now offer, that one of the Connies can't do while offering more? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm legit asking. I rock both the Connie and the Corsair, and I'm probably not going to get rid of it, but I dont know why I wouldn't grab the Andromeda for a mission from now on, other than the Corsair just looks dope as shit ( imho).
@@0311matt to be honest, I think the nerf the way the did it is dumb. I would have rather seen them take the guns off the wings and add more missles than the co pilot control. to me it is dumb. That being said, the corsair is like all the connies rolled into one. so instead of having to pick a varient, you have 1 ship that can manage all of the above. Thats just my opinion though.,
@@hirofortis I 100% agree with you on the changes. I would even be more happy with removing the guns on the wings and not adding anything, rather than splitting the guns the way they are talking.
I can see your rationale for taking the Corsair, I wouldn't say that's wrong by any means, I think I buy more into picking a role and playing into its specific strength. So that's probably why I'm a bit more salty about it.
How quickly people forget this is an Alpha
12 year Alpha
Idk. Each time my ship explode because a box move. Remind me it alpha. Or when I get out of bed in the wall. Or a unknown wreak ship in my hangar. Or my ship just lost when I log in. Well I always know that am in alpha