I've gotten one play in, watched some playthroughs...I think with some more plays of this game it's going to be one of my favorite all time. The mix of power unlocking, bag building, area control, and press-your-luck with a fairly elegant ruleset (when you get used to it) is really, really fantastic. This is great. Really great game.
I've only been able to play on TTS before and I'm going mad having to wait to play with my physical copy of the game! Definitely in my Top 5 games....maybe even my new #1. I've seen a few people say that it looks convoluted. I will agree in that learning to play this game is a bit of a steep hill, but once you get going, you'll find it to be smooth sailing. And honestly, I don't think I'd want anything taken away from it. It has just enough meatiness to make it a delight for me. Also, bears noting that I usually don't enjoy area control games, but I simply love this one. Maybe it's because it has a lot more light heartedness to it....or maybe because no one is killing off my troops....it's all my doing with my bag pulls as I'm letting them go mad and scurry off the battlefield. Whatever the reason, it stands as the only area control game I will eagerly play and would never turn down a game of it. Truly deserving of the Seal of Excellence!
Going mad is very appropriate here :). It's not convoluted. Play it, and it flows really well. There's a LOT GOING ON, and for all that, it doesn't play long (to me).
Played last night as the Jabberwocky - its default power is weak because it's easy for players to avoid taking the poison, but one of the upgrades was great - the ability to exploit the madness cycle really ramped up my power in battles. We had five players and barely had time to finish, but everyone was playing for the first time so a replay would be much faster. They could have made the setup better and the person who owned the game had the deluxe version and had a couple of chip decals that were coming off (brand new game, so it's a production issue).
Such an intriguing mix of games here: Quacks of Quedlinburg, Glen More II rondel, El Grande area control and dispersion, Coffee Roaster push your luck and other things to name a few. Saw this one in the FLGS and might have to keep an eye on it. Nice review Tom!
I'm very much fond of the Jabberwock! Fill your bag with Creatures and while in a war, when you add a creature to your active track not only does it get +1 str but also you get to place one extra supporter there making you last long in battles! Sweeet
FIVE? I couldn't be paid to play this with five again! 2 was ok but it felt a little repetitive with the battles. Are we both fighting in this region, yes. And the next, yes...... And that..... And that.... Every region, every round.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Three and four is the sweet spot on this one I think... haven't played a 5 but it might be a bit overly chaotic and too hard to accomplish things at times :). Dunno!
I rate this game 8/10. The bag drawing mechanism is awesome and super fun. The game is entertaining, balanced, rewards creative thinking and planning. I like playing as the Cheshire cat the most. He is pretty strong. I love fighting for the Red Castle, The Toggy forest and the Lake of Tears.
Awesome, good to hear this one has replayability because that's always my go to concern with any game. I also love how Tom has gotten ever so slightly edgier with his tattoo making guest appearances at the cuff haha.
This is my biggest crowd funding regret! Especially after seeing this review. I didn't back due to the cost and I was backing other things. Will put this on my wishlist!
James Hudson just did a live stream where he announced that there are limited quantities of the Deluxe version of the game and the chip upgrade. I'd definitely jump on it soon while they still have stock of it.
@@rickrolledreviews186 thanks for the tip! Unfortunately the chip upgrade wasn't available when I looked yesterday. I will pick the retail edition at my FLGS.
@@joshuataggart bummer! One other thing to look into is coin capsules. I've heard some players are picking those up as an alternative to having the premium chips.
"slightly longer than it needs to be" - that's an understatement! 4 players exceeds 2-2.5 hours, that's way too long for a push your luck game. "Slightly longer" is like 10 minutes, not 45-60! I won't play this again at more than 3 players. This needed to be 90 minutes max and then I'd be loving it to bits. As it stands I like it, but that length, table space and the insanely long setup/takedown that wasn't mentioned kills a lot of the desire to bring it out for me despite its great aesthetics and having some fun mechanics in the mix. I just wanted it to be a little longer than Quacks at most, but when you're pulling chips out of a bag and relying on luck of the draw, 2+ hours is insane!
I feel like I have to be missing something here, but when I played the game I felt it was too long and fiddly for the actual payoff. Given all the positive buzz I would like to try it again and see if my opinion changes.
First games or those with teaching will be very long. It's a good 20 minute teach at least and that new person is going to be asking questions also. By Act III I have noticed that the fiddliness jumps up with everyone's max power state at that time. Biggest concern though is the point spread. Regularly points are 50-60 points between last and first place. You can easily tell when you're screwed.
OK fine, it's a 3 player game at most (and the reason to describe it as if it for more was probably more commercial wise than designing wise), And you should have tried this at 5p only to know that it doesn't actually works at 5p (Such as Mark and Walker from SVWAG podcast whom have been through the same experience and came into the same conclusion), but - Does this game worth the hype and the buzz as a 3p game..?
In my experience playtesting, demoing, teaching, and playing this game with new crowds the ONLY time I've witnessed this game going over 2 hours (after first game) was with players who are heavily prone to Analysis Paralysis. If you play this game 2+ times, you'll get this under 120 minutes at 4 players.
After the initial teach there is no way the game should take 2.5 at 4 players again. The game should be very snappy and could easily be 1.5 if people aren't goofing around.
I think the 'overproduction' actually helps this game, yes its huge that does too, it's grand, it's pretty and those are some of the reasons why I love it.
Only disappointment is I didn't know about it until too late. Got a retail version, which is fine. But those premium chips and the minis would have been amazing.
Im seeing the base game for like 60 bucks, but the delux is like 300 wtf, is that with the minis and chips,, does the base game only have the cardboard standies, seems expensive
Can 2 people play it or should be 3 and above?I am thinking of buying it,to play with husband,but I don't know if it is good just for two people...Anybody played it with just two;🤔🤔
My wife and I played at 2 and we had fun. There is a light AI element for the war phase that keeps the battles going even when both players aren't in a territory. The characters also have 2 player versions that are balanced for that player count.
Very glad I backed this, despite having no idea what it was going to be like (drinking + KS = trouble ;) ). Very much kicking myself for not getting the upgraded chips
I didn't get the upgraded chips either...what I did get is 25mm chip cases and put the chips in them. Perfect! Protects the chips, great premium feel! No longer fits in the chip tray (didn't fit well in it anyway) but they're truly excellent!
@@trojan403 I would say "appropriate" fit :). Snap right in and work great. They present a storage dilemma but I found coin cases too that work so I'm all set now!
I always loved anything that is Alice in Wonderland. Obviously when this is announced, I was intrigued. I watched several play through TH-cam videos on how this game is played. Unfortunately it just didn’t speak to me. It is gorgeous though.
FYI - if you have TTS, you can always give it a play on there for free. Maybe it won't be your cup of tea (pardon the pun), but I found I enjoyed it more than I initially expected!
Rules are mostly straightforward but consist of lots of little things and the same can be said of set up. People can have trouble understanding combat and how supporters work in different zones. There is also a fair amount of symbology in the game that may take people a while to understand. In my experience the entire first round at least is mostly teaching before people start to really understand the mechanics of the game, so the initial teach takes a while. Set up is not quick as you have to shuffle 5 different decks, set up the individual player boards, set up the global chip stack, and set up several unique items that will change every round.
IMHO the rules are incredibly easy and simple. The game should be a super easy teach to experienced gamers. The setup and teardown is the only negative about this game I can come up with. It will take a while no doubt.
What Bige said. Are the rules complex? No. But is there a lot of them? Yes. And some can be fiddly to explain like the concept of busting and when you exhaust and get back chips. The rulebook is good for most part but it flips back and forth between overly explained (2 pages just for easy as hell leader abilities) and a wall of easy to misread text (various small rules)
I think the rules are a bit involved so ONE PERSON will have to invest time. The teach is pretty quick actually...one person has to invest, and the rest of the players will ask a question or two along the way but it's actually a quick teach.
@@TheBlakeWhitaker Look for SideGame LLC to come out with an "organization video", he's already planning it. He has great videos for organization of games to quickly setup and tear down games to maximize playtime!
It's been a long while since I played Blood Rage (and I only played a couple times), but if memory serves there are definitely some similar notes there.
Was it because Becca Scott and geek and sundry had a play through of it 2 years ago? Cause that game play video was the reason I backed it and love it!!! I’m so glad I got this game
@@FemmeSensei I thought I had enough with this Area Control genre due to negative interaction between players.. Is it both understandable and forgiveable to fight over majority on an area on game, or might feels uncomfortable, and even personal..?
@@wishmeheaven The brilliance of this game is YOU aren't taking out my troops, I am! I can stop any time and sometimes it even helps me to stop without winning! The Jabberwock has some player attack but for the most part it's not you vs me, it's my strength vs yours and the state of my bag and my willingness to press on vs yours!
![30 ชั่วโมงคนเดียว บนรถไฟชั้น 3 โซเวียต [Around The World Ep. 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MlE9boAVqDA/mqdefault.jpg)
I've gotten one play in, watched some playthroughs...I think with some more plays of this game it's going to be one of my favorite all time. The mix of power unlocking, bag building, area control, and press-your-luck with a fairly elegant ruleset (when you get used to it) is really, really fantastic. This is great. Really great game.
Played last night. The hype is real. The game is a masterpiece of design and is incredibly fun!
Also Tom I like your wonderland dress attire with the mad hatter purple hat vibes and cat tie. Props!
I. Need. My. Copy. Can't wait for it to arrives. Thanks Tom, as always, great review.
I've only been able to play on TTS before and I'm going mad having to wait to play with my physical copy of the game! Definitely in my Top 5 games....maybe even my new #1. I've seen a few people say that it looks convoluted. I will agree in that learning to play this game is a bit of a steep hill, but once you get going, you'll find it to be smooth sailing. And honestly, I don't think I'd want anything taken away from it. It has just enough meatiness to make it a delight for me. Also, bears noting that I usually don't enjoy area control games, but I simply love this one. Maybe it's because it has a lot more light heartedness to it....or maybe because no one is killing off my troops....it's all my doing with my bag pulls as I'm letting them go mad and scurry off the battlefield. Whatever the reason, it stands as the only area control game I will eagerly play and would never turn down a game of it. Truly deserving of the Seal of Excellence!
Going mad is very appropriate here :). It's not convoluted. Play it, and it flows really well. There's a LOT GOING ON, and for all that, it doesn't play long (to me).
Congrats on the Seal of Excellence! Well deserved!!
Loving this game so far! And I agree - painted my minis so they’re more distinguished on the board - solid 9/10 for me!
Played last night as the Jabberwocky - its default power is weak because it's easy for players to avoid taking the poison, but one of the upgrades was great - the ability to exploit the madness cycle really ramped up my power in battles. We had five players and barely had time to finish, but everyone was playing for the first time so a replay would be much faster. They could have made the setup better and the person who owned the game had the deluxe version and had a couple of chip decals that were coming off (brand new game, so it's a production issue).
Such an intriguing mix of games here: Quacks of Quedlinburg, Glen More II rondel, El Grande area control and dispersion, Coffee Roaster push your luck and other things to name a few. Saw this one in the FLGS and might have to keep an eye on it. Nice review Tom!
I really liked the combat with the bag drawing mechanism
I'm very much fond of the Jabberwock! Fill your bag with Creatures and while in a war, when you add a creature to your active track not only does it get +1 str but also you get to place one extra supporter there making you last long in battles! Sweeet
Tom, will you be changing your BGG rating on this one from 7.5 to 8.5 (which is where the Week in Review had it after this video)?
This instantly went to my #1 game of all time. Brilliant game! I think it plays excellent at 2 and 5 as well
FIVE? I couldn't be paid to play this with five again! 2 was ok but it felt a little repetitive with the battles. Are we both fighting in this region, yes. And the next, yes...... And that..... And that.... Every region, every round.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Three and four is the sweet spot on this one I think... haven't played a 5 but it might be a bit overly chaotic and too hard to accomplish things at times :). Dunno!
I rate this game 8/10. The bag drawing mechanism is awesome and super fun. The game is entertaining, balanced, rewards creative thinking and planning. I like playing as the Cheshire cat the most. He is pretty strong. I love fighting for the Red Castle, The Toggy forest and the Lake of Tears.
Just bought it! (Retail version) and will be ordering the coin capsules for the chits. After hearing even more rave reviews about it! :D
Took a chance on the KS version but haven't had a chance to play as of yet. Really looking forward to it after this positive review...Phew😃
It just came back in stock at my local game store. Instantly bought it!
Can't wait to get this to the table
Do they sell online?
Awesome, good to hear this one has replayability because that's always my go to concern with any game. I also love how Tom has gotten ever so slightly edgier with his tattoo making guest appearances at the cuff haha.
Amazingly fun game with beautiful artwork and components!
This is my biggest crowd funding regret! Especially after seeing this review. I didn't back due to the cost and I was backing other things. Will put this on my wishlist!
James Hudson just did a live stream where he announced that there are limited quantities of the Deluxe version of the game and the chip upgrade. I'd definitely jump on it soon while they still have stock of it.
I did a random back of this, kicking myself for not getting the upgraded tokens
@@rickrolledreviews186 thanks for the tip! Unfortunately the chip upgrade wasn't available when I looked yesterday. I will pick the retail edition at my FLGS.
@@joshuataggart bummer! One other thing to look into is coin capsules. I've heard some players are picking those up as an alternative to having the premium chips.
I REALLY hesitated at first...but I'm a fanatic about Wonderland, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger...worth every penny. Seriously...great game!
The game is definitely a looker. I hope to play next week.
Am I the only one that noticed that a lead instrument was missing in the outro music? :P
"slightly longer than it needs to be" - that's an understatement!
4 players exceeds 2-2.5 hours, that's way too long for a push your luck game. "Slightly longer" is like 10 minutes, not 45-60! I won't play this again at more than 3 players. This needed to be 90 minutes max and then I'd be loving it to bits. As it stands I like it, but that length, table space and the insanely long setup/takedown that wasn't mentioned kills a lot of the desire to bring it out for me despite its great aesthetics and having some fun mechanics in the mix. I just wanted it to be a little longer than Quacks at most, but when you're pulling chips out of a bag and relying on luck of the draw, 2+ hours is insane!
I feel like I have to be missing something here, but when I played the game I felt it was too long and fiddly for the actual payoff. Given all the positive buzz I would like to try it again and see if my opinion changes.
First games or those with teaching will be very long. It's a good 20 minute teach at least and that new person is going to be asking questions also. By Act III I have noticed that the fiddliness jumps up with everyone's max power state at that time.
Biggest concern though is the point spread. Regularly points are 50-60 points between last and first place. You can easily tell when you're screwed.
OK fine, it's a 3 player game at most (and the reason to describe it as if it for more was probably more commercial wise than designing wise),
And you should have tried this at 5p only to know that it doesn't actually works at 5p (Such as Mark and Walker from SVWAG podcast whom have been through the same experience and came into the same conclusion), but -
Does this game worth the hype and the buzz as a 3p game..?
In my experience playtesting, demoing, teaching, and playing this game with new crowds the ONLY time I've witnessed this game going over 2 hours (after first game) was with players who are heavily prone to Analysis Paralysis.
If you play this game 2+ times, you'll get this under 120 minutes at 4 players.
After the initial teach there is no way the game should take 2.5 at 4 players again. The game should be very snappy and could easily be 1.5 if people aren't goofing around.
I think the 'overproduction' actually helps this game, yes its huge that does too, it's grand, it's pretty and those are some of the reasons why I love it.
Only disappointment is I didn't know about it until too late. Got a retail version, which is fine. But those premium chips and the minis would have been amazing.
The premium chips are sold separately from the deluxe and I like the vibrate art on the standees more.
I have a heart attack every time the gavel comes down on plastic minis. 😱
Somehow, some way, by some miracle, I think they’re fine.
In a way...it shows they're really quality components.
Same
Rest in pieces, Luigi.
Mee too, does he really have to use all that strength?
Im seeing the base game for like 60 bucks, but the delux is like 300 wtf, is that with the minis and chips,, does the base game only have the cardboard standies, seems expensive
Can anyone tell me the size of the tokens? I just ordered a retail edition and I want to get some coin capsules
I'm thinking the same..
@@trojan403 I ordered the 25mm. They fit exactly. I wont be able to get them out even if I wanted to
@@grrfufulyus4768 Awesome! Thanks, I just pulled the trigger on the game and purchased it 10 minutes ago! now I'm about to order the capsules :D
@@trojan403 enjoy my friend. It is a great game
@@grrfufulyus4768 I will, thanks!
Love that cat 😻 tie!!
Can 2 people play it or should be 3 and above?I am thinking of buying it,to play with husband,but I don't know if it is good just for two people...Anybody played it with just two;🤔🤔
My wife and I played at 2 and we had fun. There is a light AI element for the war phase that keeps the battles going even when both players aren't in a territory. The characters also have 2 player versions that are balanced for that player count.
Tyyyyy @@PRC533
Very glad I backed this, despite having no idea what it was going to be like (drinking + KS = trouble ;) ). Very much kicking myself for not getting the upgraded chips
I didn't get the upgraded chips either...what I did get is 25mm chip cases and put the chips in them. Perfect! Protects the chips, great premium feel! No longer fits in the chip tray (didn't fit well in it anyway) but they're truly excellent!
@@FemmeSensei So the 25mm is a snug fit? I was wondering what size might be needed!
@@trojan403 I would say "appropriate" fit :). Snap right in and work great. They present a storage dilemma but I found coin cases too that work so I'm all set now!
@@FemmeSensei Awesome, thank you!
I always loved anything that is Alice in Wonderland. Obviously when this is announced, I was intrigued. I watched several play through TH-cam videos on how this game is played. Unfortunately it just didn’t speak to me. It is gorgeous though.
FYI - if you have TTS, you can always give it a play on there for free. Maybe it won't be your cup of tea (pardon the pun), but I found I enjoyed it more than I initially expected!
Cant wait for my copy to arrive
How has it been? I ordered my copy tonight :D
Such a good game!
But when will you be reviewing Dragonite?
Are the rules easy to understand? and how long does setup and teardown take?
Rules are mostly straightforward but consist of lots of little things and the same can be said of set up. People can have trouble understanding combat and how supporters work in different zones. There is also a fair amount of symbology in the game that may take people a while to understand. In my experience the entire first round at least is mostly teaching before people start to really understand the mechanics of the game, so the initial teach takes a while. Set up is not quick as you have to shuffle 5 different decks, set up the individual player boards, set up the global chip stack, and set up several unique items that will change every round.
IMHO the rules are incredibly easy and simple. The game should be a super easy teach to experienced gamers. The setup and teardown is the only negative about this game I can come up with. It will take a while no doubt.
What Bige said. Are the rules complex? No. But is there a lot of them? Yes. And some can be fiddly to explain like the concept of busting and when you exhaust and get back chips.
The rulebook is good for most part but it flips back and forth between overly explained (2 pages just for easy as hell leader abilities) and a wall of easy to misread text (various small rules)
I think the rules are a bit involved so ONE PERSON will have to invest time. The teach is pretty quick actually...one person has to invest, and the rest of the players will ask a question or two along the way but it's actually a quick teach.
@@TheBlakeWhitaker Look for SideGame LLC to come out with an "organization video", he's already planning it. He has great videos for organization of games to quickly setup and tear down games to maximize playtime!
Yeah, the standees have awesome color without requiring painting. Would probably prefer them.
I need to find someone who paints miniatures! This game deserves painted minis!
Iggggggggg!!!! - my reaction after he smack the plastic insert
Seems like a game where the retail edition is just fine except maybe the chips
I was thinking the same thing. 170 dollars for the game with chips seems like a lot of money.
I think the deluxe chips makes a huge difference, everything else not so much.
@@tehbige73 Yeah I saw the deluxe version and it looks great. But I just can’t justified spending 170 dollars on one game.
You can just buy the 25mm plastic coin capsules online for $10
@@shawnokelley7419 Where at?
Is it like Blood rage?
Less Vikings, more tea.
It's been a long while since I played Blood Rage (and I only played a couple times), but if memory serves there are definitely some similar notes there.
Maybe like Blood Rage and Quacks had a love child that went mad?
I thought this game came out years ago?
Was it because Becca Scott and geek and sundry had a play through of it 2 years ago? Cause that game play video was the reason I backed it and love it!!! I’m so glad I got this game
I was thinking of a different Wonderlands and thought Gearbox made a board game XD
🤑🤑🤑🤑 I'll skip this because of the exclusivity and the extreme price point
Oh... Excellent? That good?
Interesting...
It is! Check reviews on BGG for confirmation. This game is amazing.
@@TheBlakeWhitaker In how many players it shines..?
@@wishmeheaven IMO: 3 to 4. Haven't played 5. Area control never really sings at 2 player...
@@FemmeSensei I thought I had enough with this Area Control genre due to negative interaction between players..
Is it both understandable and forgiveable to fight over majority on an area on game, or might feels uncomfortable, and even personal..?
@@wishmeheaven The brilliance of this game is YOU aren't taking out my troops, I am! I can stop any time and sometimes it even helps me to stop without winning! The Jabberwock has some player attack but for the most part it's not you vs me, it's my strength vs yours and the state of my bag and my willingness to press on vs yours!
Would you please stop blurring around. My eyes are crying
Che-shuh, like wuss-tuh-shuh rather than che-shire
Talk about Convoluted. Yikes
The way it appears or the way it plays?
Unnecessarily overly convoluted and tedious
Ameritrash with Victory Points are so boring
Almost as boring as Eurotrash with Victory Points !
ONE WAY STREET! Stop making up words for something that's had a term for a decade.
Pretty sure he didn't make up the word ratchet, but it's clear your temper is ratchetting up.
I don't know why it causes you so much anger. Unnecessary.
It's clearly not a one-way street if Alice goes the opposite direction.
@@belg4mit haha! Good one
@@nbraun80 Yes they did, and they've been pushing it in every video with this mechanic.