For anyone that has been cheated on, unless you were physically or emotionally abusive to your partner/spouse, please don't think that it is your fault that your partner cheated. As she said, it's because the cheater has their own issues, not because of you. It's not your fault
THIS! It's the cheater's fault for cheating and if they try to trick you into thinking otherwise, I'll personally go up to them and slap them because NOBODY deserves to be cheated on.
Agree on everything you said. I'll readily admit that society used to put most (if not all) the blame on the mistress, but nowadays we've somehow overcorrected by refusing to hold the affair partner accountable for her deliberate and calculated actions. Women should support women, so where is that support from these mistresses while they're fucking another woman's husband? First rule of kindergarten: treat others how you want to be treated. If you have no respect for your fellow women, you don't deserve respect from other women. Adam and Ned are total garbage for cheating, but both Sumner and Alex 100% knew what they were doing (Sumner posted TikToks not so subtly shading Adam's wife in the past, and Alex worked with and befriended Ned's entire family) and need to accept responsibility for their choices in contributing to an affair.
Absolutely!! I've never understood why society was so quick to defend cheaters when their actions clearly showed they were far from innocent. People using "women supporting women" to defend horrible people just because they're women is...terribly misinformed. 🤦♀️ Sumner and Alex both made the decision to cheat with Adam and Ned. The only victims in this are the faithful wives and their kids that have to deal with all of this bs. /:
And what do you want people to do about it? What punishment do you think will satisfy your need of making sure Alex is properly punished? First of all, people are treating this differently because it's a complex situation. Employers have power over their employees in a way where this is not just a black/white issue, especially because she was a fangirl of the Try Guys before working with them. I'm not condoning her actions, but I've seen too many times how the internet piles hate on people when they shouldn't have. I think it's best to be cautious with their situation, especially because too much hate on her actually could make the situation worse for the Try Guys. Even if you think the power dynamic has nothing to do with her cheating, it makes no sense to give her any leverage where she could get a bigger payout if they fire her.
Thank you! So many people in my Try Guys fan groups are defending Alex because of the "power dynamic" but I've been like, even if her job was threatened (which I highly doubt), Alex still could have chosen her own 10+ year relationship and quit. Like, there is absolutely no excuse for either of them.
Though I do think the power dynamic has some impact, more on legality because I don’t think the try guys can’t fire Alex without a risk of being sued, I’m not going to ignore Alex’s fault in all this. She is just as bad and like you said she could have quit if she felt “pressured”. I do hope Alex has some decency and quit
YES! Ned was fired for having relations with his employee, but because Alex wasn't fired, people have been quick to assume that she's innocent. That was a legal issue, not a moral one. Morally, they're both completely in the wrong because they both cheated on their faithful partners! It's unacceptable /: I just hope Ariel, Will, and Ariel's kids are doing somewhat okay because my heart breaks for them.
EXACTLY! We're so quick to point fingers that we forget about the actual innocent victims in all of this (Ariel, Will, the kids). It's a slap in the face and years (at least a decade) of commitment and love down the drain. I hate that they have to go through this bs
I'm sorry, but 'we were going to break up anyway, so I cheated' is basically just saying 'oh, well, the relationship was going to end, so I decided to hurt them because I don't care for them anymore.' Whoever says that needs to take a long look at themselves and grow up.
YES! It was the one of the most careless and cruel reason I've heard and it was horrifying to see they didn't care to understand why this was wrong. They have a lot of reflection and growing up to do.
Yes thank you finally someone holding both Ned and Alex accountable. Yeah he's her Boss but she's a grown woman with a working Brain, she could have said no, decided to not go out with a married man. Power dynamics my eye it's Ned, he's two foot four
Yes! Ned was in a position of power so he was fired for having relations with an employee while Alex wasn't, but that doesn't mean that Alex is completely innocent! She knew Ned, Ariel, and their kids, and chose to cheat with him and cheat on Will. There are so many people saying she did nothing wrong and... 🤦♀️
Dude I have a friend who actually gave the childhood trauma exampl , she blamed her dad saying "My dad cheated on my mum and that's why I'm a cheater" and I'm like dude...no That's not how it works.....
@@thinmyatlwin7378 yeah dude that's the whole point ...it's upto you stop using your past trauma as an excuse. I have been sexually abused as a child and I will never let another person , especially a child get hurt the way I did
I think there is something to that though. Complete but relevant over share - I swear: I’m the product of my biological father’s affair. He lied by omission to my mom that he was married and she found out because another married man asked her out and he told her - but they’d been together for years to that point (she and my biological father worked together). When she confronted him, he said he and his wife been separated, so she continued the relationship because of his assertions that they were beginning the divorce process. Skip ahead a few years, no divorce and she’s pregnant with me, and finds out his wife had a kid a year earlier. He chose to stay with his wife and son and never so much as asked about me - even though he and my mom continued to work together. As the product of that whole situation, I grew up with a crappy now ex stepfather that sexually abused me and wondering why I wasn’t good enough for my biological father to want to be in my life. Skip forward to my early 20’s and I enter a friend with benefits relationship with a vet. Almost two years in, and with strong feelings having developed, I find out he’s been married with kids the whole time. But because of a combination of my low self worth from the crappy father figures in my life and the feelings I had for him, I stayed in the relationship for another couple of years. That’s all I thought I deserved. The emotional trauma I suffered is part of the reason I continued that cycle. I do think trauma can be overcome; I am now in my mid 30’s and have much more self respect for myself (most days, anyways) that I would never start or continue a relationship if that person is in a committed relationship (even if they’re not actually committed to the relationship). And it turns out, my biological father’s oldest son has cheated on his wife. I don’t agree that you have a free pass to cheat because your parents cheated. But I can see that side of trauma affecting the decisions people make, especially when that’s all you’ve been taught.
@@CsprsSassyHrly First I'm sorry about what happened with you I really am but you have learnt and grown and as you said your last trauma really affects you but I swear to God I always get so frustrated when I see a pedophile giving excuses that he /she was abused as a child . Wtf , you know how much it hurt you as a kid and you still did that ? The sane goes for cheaters just because you were cheated on or you saw your parents cheated on doesn't make a reasonable excuse to do what you do. I understand that it affects you, trust me I do but there is a limit to how much you use that excuse. I have night terrors and insomnia due to my sexual abuse , I can't let anyone touch me without my permission because of how much I hate skin contact and I will never get into a relationship because I can't trust people and that's that. You have to decide how you let your trauma affect you and how much it controls you and even if does it should never ruin another person's life
THANK YOU! It's wild how people will say that without an ounce of guilt and assume we'll give them a pass. 🤦♀️ Not everyone with childhood trauma cheats/has the desire to cheat... only cheaters do.
What if they are cheating to get away from an abusive partner? I am not condoning cheating, just wondering what you think. Yeah one thing that hasn't been talked about enough in this whole Ned Fulmer scandal, in my opinion is how he called it "consensual." If he didn't have the consent of Will and Ariel as well, that it's like they are all exposed to extra sexual partners without agreeing to that. If someone thinks they are having sex with a trusted long-term partner, they might approach use of contraception differently. That seems quite important and I'm surprised that point hasn't been made more. Appreciate your takes on this situation!
That's a really good question! I'm really conflicted about that because while I think that cheating is horrible, I understand why the ones in abusive relationships felt like they had no choice but to cheat. With abusers, sometimes it's easier and less destructive to get out of the relationship by being the "bad person" so the abuser can break things off instead. Abusive relationships are so tricky and dangerous that I wouldn't completely blame them for doing so. It doesn't excuse their behavior, but I wouldn't shame them for it either. It's not so black and white with this one /: YES! The "consensual workplace relationship" makes absolutely no sense for the reasons you stated. It was not a "consensual workplace relationship", it was an affair. I'm guessing he said it to show that he, as Alex's boss, was not pressuring her and it was consensual between him and Alex, but it was just plain wrong.. (sorry for the long message!)
Hey! Victim of domestic abuse from an ex here! So while my situation is obviously vastly different from the next person's--I personally could not even THINK about sex or romance while I was with him. I couldn't cheat--I didn't have the self esteem to say "I deserve this" sooo...I'm not sure how other people react to it, but at least for me, cheating "because of my abuse" never seemed to make sense.
@@theflyingarioh i second this. But the thing is I would prioritize cut them off and gtfo as soon as I can from that relationship first, and then... we can talk about dating someone else. As said before, it is tricky and possibly dangerous. You would not want your next partner to be in danger.
I was in an emotionally and mentally abusive relationship, I doubted myself, felt so unattractive and so unworthy to the point of giving up on life and then I met someone who was there for me, listened to me and made me feel validated, ended up emotionally cheating and was able to break up with that person. I tried many times before but that person would threatened me with taking their life if I did which made me feel so guilty and horrible but thanks to that person I learned that I shouldn't feel responsible for someone else's actions, that it wasn't my fault if I he did (which he didn't) and that I shouldn't feel guilty for breaking up for obvious reasons.
As someone who's been cheated on it can be very hard to get back into the dating field and trust people. Ever since then I've been scared of commitment in fear the rug will suddenly be pulled out from under me again. Luckily I found someone who understands and who is willing to take things slow and I'm so grateful 💛💛
You did NOT deserve what happened to you and I'm so sorry that it did, but I'm so glad that you found a partner to trust in who is respecting your boundaries and experiences! ❤️
I have SO many thoughts as I'm currently going through a horrible marriage breakup. I tried to he understanding when he said it was a drunken kiss. I have spent 6 months finding out that it was a 2 year affair, he siphoned money off, he lied, he subscribed to only fans, sent her explicit video, etc. She was barely an adult when he met her and he was in his late 20s. He is blaming mental health but lying about almost everything. He said he is on meds but won't tell me the name or show me he is. Everything is a lie and he used to be this loving person. He is now this cold monster. It's not a mistake, it's an active choice that only shitty people do. And even worse people do when they do it over and over.
I'm so incredibly sorry that you're going through a breakup/divorce right now and you experienced that. A 2 year affair is vile and the fact that she was barely legal makes it...not great. As someone who has a mental illness and struggles with their mental health, mental health does NOT excuse horrible behavior. I'm sorry you were betrayed by someone you loved because you do NOT deserve to be treated like that! I can't even begin to imagine what you're going through, but you're doing the right thing by ending things with someone who isn't treating you how you deserve to be treated. ❤️🩹
It usually takes a huge catastrophe for the person to change. Rock bottom. For example, with Ned, this cheating news reached Time magazine, Rolling Stone, and CNN- that’s exposure that’s bigger than anything the Try Guys ever tried. Ned Fulmer’s cheating broke the internet. So this could be the rock bottom he needs to turn his attitude around…
You have absolutely NOTHING to be guilty about. I know it might be hard to believe, but it's true. I'm really sorry you were born into a situation like that and it's unfair that you have to deal with the trauma that comes with it. I hope you understand that you're worth so much more and the actions of your parents is not a reflection on who you are.
I absolutely despite cheaters, they made a conscious decision to hurt their partner, repeated or not. My mom had a shit bf who tried to get engaged to her but was caught MULTIPLE times cheating on my mom with another woman, was even directly caught by my mom and his mom a few times, but would always play the stupid 'i didnt mean to, im gonna change, i really do love you and blah blah blah' well finally after a shitty few years finally broke up, and yes he was a jealous and insecure af man. His daughter was also living with us to at the time when he was cheating since him and his daughter had been living with us as well for years, but you know he only cared about himself.
Good riddance! Your mom deserves SO much better than an insecure, jealous, consistently cheating partner who brings more pain than anything else. I'm sorry you and your mom had to deal with that kind of trauma, and I think you both are amazing for realizing your worth and kicking him to the curb. Hope you both are healing and understanding that you both deserve THE BEST! 💗
THIS!! The kids and the wives are the innocent victims that got wrapped up in all of this because their dad/husbands decided to cheat and it's all over the internet, which makes things even more complicated. /:
Really i found someone who matches my vibe now. I was cheated on and had to deal with ptsd aftermath. I feel bad for what ariel and the others you mentioned going through.The audacity of some men and also("other") women just ruining and kinda humiliating them is outrageous.
I'm so sorry that you had that experience and had to navigate through ptsd /: nobody deserves to be betrayed by their partners. Ariel, Will, and the Try Guys fam deserve so much better.
@@theflyingarioh hey there! Thanks a lot im feeling much better these days☺. I have seen other videos of yours especially how to forgive within was really something i am trying to practice. Thanks for showing and giving such a good perspective.
I agree on everything you said ESPECIALLY the insecure reason. My dad cheated on my mom multiple times and idk he's reasons all I know is that he's a dick for doing that to my mom and ruining my family's life. He's probably insecure that he doesn't have a job and my mom is doing all the work but he doesn't even have the right to do that even if he didn't abused us in the past cheating and cheating MULTIPLE times is just not it. I hate cheaters period.
I'm SO sorry you and your mom went through that! He had absolutely NO RIGHT to do that to you both for any reason and the fact that he probably tried to assert dominance over the situation by cheating (when he's actually insecure). You and your mom deserve SO much more than an insecure, abusive, cheating person in your life.
I mean I do think there is nuance when power dynamics become involved, but ultimately it really is a decision to cheat with a married person. I just think we shouldn’t forget that the power dynamic does exist entirely. It’s kinda hard to keep the balance between that and holding people accountable.
I agree! If one person is in a position of power, it's not so clear cut especially when we don't know what happened behind closed doors. In the end, the cheaters decided to cheat so they need to be held accountable, but it IS complicated when power dynamics are involved.
I'm really learning through my marriage breakdown that it was never me. I loved him, I asked him to get help, I cleaned the house, I treated him well, I was patient, I was loyal. It was never me. It was him. Whilst it feels like I failed, I'm starting to see that he failed me and he failed us. I am seeing that you can love someone with 100% of you but if they don't return it, it's not your fault.
ABSOLUTELY! It was never because of what you did or didn't do. Cheating is always about the cheater themselves. I hate that you have to go through this, but it was never your fault he cheated. It's his and only his.
I will agree that sleeping around when everyone is single is perfectly fine , I will say that I understand the idea of an open relationship however that seems like a complicated mess and I will leave it alone personally.
Yes, I agree! it doesn't matter as long as everyone involved is single and everything is consensual. Open relationships are pretty cool, but I agree that it can get complicated so communication & boundaries are key!
I would typically agree (especially since my parents divorced because my dad cheated with a younger woman), but we don't know Alex, as much as people like to think they do from her public persona. We have know idea how much or how little the employer/employee dynamic was in play, especially because she outright admitted she was a fangirl before working for them. In the end, it's fine to have whatever opinion you want, but anyone actively persuading others that Alex "deserves" to be punished more is straight up bullying... and you need to let it go. Eugene basically told everyone to leave her alone (and I think he meant Ariel, too, if she decides to stay with Ned), anyone going against their wishes will contribute to making the situation for them more difficult. Imagine his angry face judging you any time you decide you know better than him, and that Alex deserves more backlash. Besides that, it looks like Alex lost her fiance at this point, it's not up to us to make sure she's punished further. I dunno, I feel like even remaining neutral, because this is a precarious situation between employer/employee, while not condoning her actions, is still seen as defending her. Nah, I just would prefer if the internet acted like grownups about it instead of devolving into a high schooler. If I can leave her be, someone that had their life upended by a cheating dad and "other woman", no one else has any excuse.
That's a good point! We don't know what happened behind closed doors with Ned & Alex (especially since he was her boss while she was his employee) so there's still a lot of missing information to jump to conclusions. Eugene was right when he said that the internet (and society) are much harsher to women than men so we need to make sure that we don't spread hate to either Alex or Ariel. However, I think that we still need to hold people accountable. I've seen a lot of people say that Alex was 100% innocent because of this dynamic and that's just not true because she not only cheated with Ned, but she cheated on her fiancé as well. As you mentioned, the situation is complicated because their dynamic can't allow for a "consensual workplace relationship" and it's not up to random strangers on the internet to determine what's what. But at the end of the day, the actions of Ned and Alex hurt a lot of people and they should be held accountable.
I heard that people who cheat often make their marriage their entire personality to make up for the cheating. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though
I don't have any proof of this, but I do think that people who are insecure about something tend to overcompensate in life (not just when it comes to cheating) so I think you may have a point!
There's a lot of reasons for why cheating happens. I'm not going to defend the action itself, but it's not simplistic. You see, gender stereotypes exist, and these stereotypes affect society and the people that live within it. In case you've already noticed, there's standards for this. In the role of sexism, in the sense that a man who cheats would be praised for doing so(the toxic masculinity ideal that men would be men, and men are always sexually polygamous and that doing this is a proof of manhood, ridiculing a Virgin man who has never had sex), on the other hand, a woman who cheats would be utterly demonized for doing so(The toxic femininity ideal that women are puritan creatures and that women who are sexually polygamous are whores and prostitutes and are cheap, and in their case, virginity is valued, instead of ridiculed). So you can see this dynamic, to get that out of the way. You also have to consider other important factors to play here. Like Sexual Repression and Starvation in relationships, yes. It's a thing, and can be extremely frustrating for one partner or the other. The ones who are unable to do this end up cheating. Sexual Starvation can sometimes be used in abusive marriages or relationships as a sort of power dynamic and can be harmful and might drive someone to the edge. Another one here is the normalization of toxic monogamy culture and romanticism of love. You see, toxic monogamy culture is one that extremely prioritizes the tenets of monogamy in a very puritan manner and utterly demonizes any other sexual deviant attitudes that don't align with societal expectations of heteronormative relationships. This can also be applied to homosexual relationships too. This is tied hand in hand to romanticism as we understand it from the 18th century, which made a lot of archetypal but harmful stereotypes about love. Here are just a few things I'd consider part of the toxic monogamy culture. 1. The idea that your partner fulfills you and is all you should ever require. 2. The idea that being attracted to another person who isn't your partner is shameful. 3. The idea that your partner is the only person that should and can supply all your needs, and that if you find someone outside who isn't your partner that may do these things, that's utterly unacceptable. 4. The idea that you can ONLY love one person. 5. The idea that sexual jealousy or overprotectiveness of your partner is equal to true love. 6. The idea that being unsatisfied with your partner is something in itself inherently wrong. 7. The idea that True love conquers all, without considering a lot of issues like compatibility. 8. Finally, the last one, demonizing sexually polygamous relationships as degeneracy or debauchery. I can go on and on. The point I'm trying to make here is, the idea of cheating is very complex. It's not just about people being bad because that's it, or about giving excuses because they're irredeemable assholes. And I like that you stated that this isn't black and white. There's a lot of nuance as to why people cheat. Power dynamics, ideology, emotional immaturity, gender stereotypes, a lot of stuff.
I think we can all agree that cheating is wrong, but I feel like you didn't provide quite enough nuance to this. My dad cheated on my mom due to being severely unhappy in their marriage. I'm not saying what he did was right, but just that there are more complex reasons why someone would do such a horrible thing.
yeah been on both sides. f that but the media is trying to make ales the victim.... shocker only blaming Ned. guess because Ned is more popular than Alex
Right! I understand why Ned was fired from the company while Alex wasn't (legal complications) and that he was in a position of power so we don't know EVERYTHING that happened, but people are acting as if Alex is completely innocent..and.. that's not it 😭
Maybe I'm not one to speak on this since I've never been in a relationship, but I was always under the impression that whoever the person cheated with wasn't responsible. It's the person in the committed relationship that cheated at the game, it's not someone else's responsibility to keep your husband/wife in check. Like Alex and Ned. Yeah, Ned's the piece of shit for cheating on Ariel but Alex wasn't a part of that relationship, Ned's the one at fault for cheating at his marriage. Alex should also be thrown to the lions for cheating on her own relationship, but I'm not seeing people mad at Ned for ruining Alex's relationship with her partner when everyone is blaming Alex for ruining Ned's relationship with Ariel. I dunno, I just thought it was kinda odd. EDIT: Also, I remember reading somewhere that men are more likely to leave a relationship if they already have something lined up. They won't leave someone and just be alone for a while like a woman will.
It's cause Ned is the public figure but if you asked me he is to blame for ruining is relationship. She is to blame for ruining her own relationship. And THEY'RE both to blame for doing it with someone who was in a committed relationship.
I think there are multiple reasons you’re seeing much more hate towards Alex for “ruining Ned’s relationship” than you are towards Ned for “ruining Alex’s relationship”. For starters, fans feel like they know Ned - and Ariel by extension - much more than they know Alex and her fiancé. I think that automatically makes people take Ariel’s side, Ariel’s side is that she was cheated on, the person her husband cheated on her with is Alex, which makes Alex the bad one. While - as far as I remember - Alex’s fiancé has never been in a video, though he’s been discussed in a few videos. In general, I think people are much harsher on women than they are on men. People are almost always going to give the man more benefit of the doubt because “he can’t help it” or “it’s in his nature”, while dragging the woman he cheated with as being a “home wrecker” and “seducing” the man - as though men are incapable of saying no and are ONLY going to cheat because they’re “biologically predisposed” to cheating. This, again, makes Alex the bad one and gives Ned a free pass. Another reason might be because the repercussions have been stronger for Ned than for Alex. As far as I know, Alex hasn’t been fired - and I go back and forth on whether she should. If Ned cheated and that’s why he got fired, then Alex should be fired as well. But this situation is more complicated, in that Ned was a boss, while Alex was his subordinate, and it doesn’t matter how “consensual” the relationship is claimed to be, they were never on equal footing, which I think leaves people giving Ned more flack than Alex (and, in my opinion, rightfully so). Whether he intentionally used his position as her boss to start the relationship or not, the fact is, he was her boss and should’ve behaved more professionally. But the fact that people are likely seeing this as an abuse of power almost makes what Ned did worse (he had “farther to fall” than Alex) - even though their actions of cheating on someone are the same. But this employer/subordinate relationship, mixed with - typically - giving men the free pass means Ned had “more to lose” and that “makes” what Alex did to Ned somehow “worse” than what Ned did to Alex. Not to mention, I think people bought into - or at least really wanted to buy into - Ned’s family act. Happy marriages seem to be few and far between and I think when there’s an example of a good one, you cling to it, despite any cracks. And the general consensus is “shame on Alex for ruining the happy marriage”. Nobody really knows how Alex’s relationship with her fiancé is - we can likely assume if they’ve been together for 7+ years and are engaged, that they’re happy, but we don’t really know and out of sight, out of mind. That was incredibly long - I’ve been watching the Try Guys since their early Buzzfeed days and I was one of the people that was completely shocked at hearing all of this come out… I am also the product of an affair and have unknowingly been involved in affairs (well, one, but still). I have a loooooooot of feelings about this whole situation.
I don't blame alex for cheating with ned but I'm blaming her for cheating on her boyfriend of 10 fucking years , befriending Ariel and acting all sweet to her ,they are both wrong , you can't steal a man / woman who's committed to their partners.
Sexless marriages suck, but that still doesn't warrant cheating.. Even though it's difficult to go about divorce, ending the marriage FIRST and seeking out other partners is the way to go.
@@theflyingarioh bc lets be real, you can love tf outta your partner but if they aren’t meeting a human need,, it’s not realistic to just say divorce when otherwise the marriage is perfect.
@@MaZiya___ easier said than done. How do you leave an otherwise perfect marriage with the love of your life? This isnt about emotions, its about human urges.
I disagree. The woman are not equally to blame. The men were in a relationship and should’ve respected their spouse no matter who came at them. If they were faithful they would’ve stayed faithful even with other people coming at them. Stop blaming the other women.
Alex the one Ned cheated with was in a long term relationship as well even engaged and was well aware of Ned's marriage as she was close with his wife.
Blaming men cannot always be the answer. The worst betrayal is when everyone is well aware that the other is in a relationship and still goes ahead even when engaged to hurt both partners.
I see your point, but Alex was also in a relationship (engaged), so she is definitely equally to blame. Aaaand she claimed to have a friendship with his wife??? I'm sorry, but that just makes her a horrible horrible person in its own way.
I don’t know much about the Adam Levine cheating scandal, but as far as Ned and Alex go, Alex was engaged to someone she had been committed to for 7+ years. She knew going into that relationship that she was with someone and that Ned was with someone - and that there were children involved. Not to mention, she and Ariel were supposed to be friends. I think the only reason there’s nuance to that situation is that Ned was in a position of power but, Alex is just as much to blame and just as wrong as Ned.
For anyone that has been cheated on, unless you were physically or emotionally abusive to your partner/spouse, please don't think that it is your fault that your partner cheated. As she said, it's because the cheater has their own issues, not because of you. It's not your fault
THIS! It's the cheater's fault for cheating and if they try to trick you into thinking otherwise, I'll personally go up to them and slap them because NOBODY deserves to be cheated on.
Agree on everything you said. I'll readily admit that society used to put most (if not all) the blame on the mistress, but nowadays we've somehow overcorrected by refusing to hold the affair partner accountable for her deliberate and calculated actions. Women should support women, so where is that support from these mistresses while they're fucking another woman's husband? First rule of kindergarten: treat others how you want to be treated. If you have no respect for your fellow women, you don't deserve respect from other women. Adam and Ned are total garbage for cheating, but both Sumner and Alex 100% knew what they were doing (Sumner posted TikToks not so subtly shading Adam's wife in the past, and Alex worked with and befriended Ned's entire family) and need to accept responsibility for their choices in contributing to an affair.
Absolutely!! I've never understood why society was so quick to defend cheaters when their actions clearly showed they were far from innocent. People using "women supporting women" to defend horrible people just because they're women is...terribly misinformed. 🤦♀️
Sumner and Alex both made the decision to cheat with Adam and Ned. The only victims in this are the faithful wives and their kids that have to deal with all of this bs. /:
The thing is Alex had her own affair, being engaged. No one seems to be talking about her Fiancé
@@theflyingarioh And Alex's Fiancé
And what do you want people to do about it? What punishment do you think will satisfy your need of making sure Alex is properly punished? First of all, people are treating this differently because it's a complex situation. Employers have power over their employees in a way where this is not just a black/white issue, especially because she was a fangirl of the Try Guys before working with them. I'm not condoning her actions, but I've seen too many times how the internet piles hate on people when they shouldn't have.
I think it's best to be cautious with their situation, especially because too much hate on her actually could make the situation worse for the Try Guys. Even if you think the power dynamic has nothing to do with her cheating, it makes no sense to give her any leverage where she could get a bigger payout if they fire her.
Thank you! So many people in my Try Guys fan groups are defending Alex because of the "power dynamic" but I've been like, even if her job was threatened (which I highly doubt), Alex still could have chosen her own 10+ year relationship and quit. Like, there is absolutely no excuse for either of them.
Though I do think the power dynamic has some impact, more on legality because I don’t think the try guys can’t fire Alex without a risk of being sued, I’m not going to ignore Alex’s fault in all this. She is just as bad and like you said she could have quit if she felt “pressured”.
I do hope Alex has some decency and quit
YES! Ned was fired for having relations with his employee, but because Alex wasn't fired, people have been quick to assume that she's innocent. That was a legal issue, not a moral one.
Morally, they're both completely in the wrong because they both cheated on their faithful partners! It's unacceptable /:
I just hope Ariel, Will, and Ariel's kids are doing somewhat okay because my heart breaks for them.
Thing is both Ned and Alex were in 10+ year long relationships which is so heartbreaking for Ariel and Will
EXACTLY! We're so quick to point fingers that we forget about the actual innocent victims in all of this (Ariel, Will, the kids). It's a slap in the face and years (at least a decade) of commitment and love down the drain. I hate that they have to go through this bs
I'm sorry, but 'we were going to break up anyway, so I cheated' is basically just saying 'oh, well, the relationship was going to end, so I decided to hurt them because I don't care for them anymore.' Whoever says that needs to take a long look at themselves and grow up.
YES! It was the one of the most careless and cruel reason I've heard and it was horrifying to see they didn't care to understand why this was wrong. They have a lot of reflection and growing up to do.
No one is mentioning Alex's Fiancé, he was made out to be a fool.
yeah i really feel for him
You're right, and the fact that they've been together for over a decade is... gut wrenching /:
Yes thank you finally someone holding both Ned and Alex accountable. Yeah he's her Boss but she's a grown woman with a working Brain, she could have said no, decided to not go out with a married man. Power dynamics my eye it's Ned, he's two foot four
Yes! Ned was in a position of power so he was fired for having relations with an employee while Alex wasn't, but that doesn't mean that Alex is completely innocent!
She knew Ned, Ariel, and their kids, and chose to cheat with him and cheat on Will. There are so many people saying she did nothing wrong and... 🤦♀️
@@theflyingarioh also she had a bf of ten years like she cheated too 😭
Dude I have a friend who actually gave the childhood trauma exampl , she blamed her dad saying "My dad cheated on my mum and that's why I'm a cheater" and I'm like dude...no
That's not how it works.....
Actually it can happen quite often. Kids learn from their parents and continue the toxic generation cycle. But there are also people who break them
@@thinmyatlwin7378 yeah dude that's the whole point ...it's upto you stop using your past trauma as an excuse. I have been sexually abused as a child and I will never let another person , especially a child get hurt the way I did
I think there is something to that though. Complete but relevant over share - I swear: I’m the product of my biological father’s affair. He lied by omission to my mom that he was married and she found out because another married man asked her out and he told her - but they’d been together for years to that point (she and my biological father worked together). When she confronted him, he said he and his wife been separated, so she continued the relationship because of his assertions that they were beginning the divorce process. Skip ahead a few years, no divorce and she’s pregnant with me, and finds out his wife had a kid a year earlier. He chose to stay with his wife and son and never so much as asked about me - even though he and my mom continued to work together. As the product of that whole situation, I grew up with a crappy now ex stepfather that sexually abused me and wondering why I wasn’t good enough for my biological father to want to be in my life.
Skip forward to my early 20’s and I enter a friend with benefits relationship with a vet. Almost two years in, and with strong feelings having developed, I find out he’s been married with kids the whole time. But because of a combination of my low self worth from the crappy father figures in my life and the feelings I had for him, I stayed in the relationship for another couple of years.
That’s all I thought I deserved. The emotional trauma I suffered is part of the reason I continued that cycle. I do think trauma can be overcome; I am now in my mid 30’s and have much more self respect for myself (most days, anyways) that I would never start or continue a relationship if that person is in a committed relationship (even if they’re not actually committed to the relationship). And it turns out, my biological father’s oldest son has cheated on his wife. I don’t agree that you have a free pass to cheat because your parents cheated. But I can see that side of trauma affecting the decisions people make, especially when that’s all you’ve been taught.
@@CsprsSassyHrly
First
I'm sorry about what happened with you I really am but you have learnt and grown and as you said your last trauma really affects you but I swear to God I always get so frustrated when I see a pedophile giving excuses that he /she was abused as a child . Wtf , you know how much it hurt you as a kid and you still did that ? The sane goes for cheaters just because you were cheated on or you saw your parents cheated on doesn't make a reasonable excuse to do what you do. I understand that it affects you, trust me I do but there is a limit to how much you use that excuse.
I have night terrors and insomnia due to my sexual abuse , I can't let anyone touch me without my permission because of how much I hate skin contact and I will never get into a relationship because I can't trust people and that's that. You have to decide how you let your trauma affect you and how much it controls you and even if does it should never ruin another person's life
THANK YOU! It's wild how people will say that without an ounce of guilt and assume we'll give them a pass. 🤦♀️ Not everyone with childhood trauma cheats/has the desire to cheat... only cheaters do.
What if they are cheating to get away from an abusive partner? I am not condoning cheating, just wondering what you think. Yeah one thing that hasn't been talked about enough in this whole Ned Fulmer scandal, in my opinion is how he called it "consensual." If he didn't have the consent of Will and Ariel as well, that it's like they are all exposed to extra sexual partners without agreeing to that. If someone thinks they are having sex with a trusted long-term partner, they might approach use of contraception differently. That seems quite important and I'm surprised that point hasn't been made more. Appreciate your takes on this situation!
That's a really good question! I'm really conflicted about that because while I think that cheating is horrible, I understand why the ones in abusive relationships felt like they had no choice but to cheat. With abusers, sometimes it's easier and less destructive to get out of the relationship by being the "bad person" so the abuser can break things off instead. Abusive relationships are so tricky and dangerous that I wouldn't completely blame them for doing so. It doesn't excuse their behavior, but I wouldn't shame them for it either. It's not so black and white with this one /:
YES! The "consensual workplace relationship" makes absolutely no sense for the reasons you stated. It was not a "consensual workplace relationship", it was an affair. I'm guessing he said it to show that he, as Alex's boss, was not pressuring her and it was consensual between him and Alex, but it was just plain wrong..
(sorry for the long message!)
Hey! Victim of domestic abuse from an ex here! So while my situation is obviously vastly different from the next person's--I personally could not even THINK about sex or romance while I was with him. I couldn't cheat--I didn't have the self esteem to say "I deserve this" sooo...I'm not sure how other people react to it, but at least for me, cheating "because of my abuse" never seemed to make sense.
@@theflyingarioh i second this. But the thing is I would prioritize cut them off and gtfo as soon as I can from that relationship first, and then... we can talk about dating someone else. As said before, it is tricky and possibly dangerous. You would not want your next partner to be in danger.
I was in an emotionally and mentally abusive relationship, I doubted myself, felt so unattractive and so unworthy to the point of giving up on life and then I met someone who was there for me, listened to me and made me feel validated, ended up emotionally cheating and was able to break up with that person. I tried many times before but that person would threatened me with taking their life if I did which made me feel so guilty and horrible but thanks to that person I learned that I shouldn't feel responsible for someone else's actions, that it wasn't my fault if I he did (which he didn't) and that I shouldn't feel guilty for breaking up for obvious reasons.
i bet you Ariel knew and looked the other way till he got caught and will prob still stay with him. Will is a simp so who gives a shit.
As someone who's been cheated on it can be very hard to get back into the dating field and trust people. Ever since then I've been scared of commitment in fear the rug will suddenly be pulled out from under me again. Luckily I found someone who understands and who is willing to take things slow and I'm so grateful 💛💛
You did NOT deserve what happened to you and I'm so sorry that it did, but I'm so glad that you found a partner to trust in who is respecting your boundaries and experiences! ❤️
I have SO many thoughts as I'm currently going through a horrible marriage breakup. I tried to he understanding when he said it was a drunken kiss. I have spent 6 months finding out that it was a 2 year affair, he siphoned money off, he lied, he subscribed to only fans, sent her explicit video, etc. She was barely an adult when he met her and he was in his late 20s. He is blaming mental health but lying about almost everything. He said he is on meds but won't tell me the name or show me he is. Everything is a lie and he used to be this loving person. He is now this cold monster.
It's not a mistake, it's an active choice that only shitty people do. And even worse people do when they do it over and over.
I'm so incredibly sorry that you're going through a breakup/divorce right now and you experienced that. A 2 year affair is vile and the fact that she was barely legal makes it...not great.
As someone who has a mental illness and struggles with their mental health, mental health does NOT excuse horrible behavior.
I'm sorry you were betrayed by someone you loved because you do NOT deserve to be treated like that! I can't even begin to imagine what you're going through, but you're doing the right thing by ending things with someone who isn't treating you how you deserve to be treated. ❤️🩹
It usually takes a huge catastrophe for the person to change. Rock bottom. For example, with Ned, this cheating news reached Time magazine, Rolling Stone, and CNN- that’s exposure that’s bigger than anything the Try Guys ever tried. Ned Fulmer’s cheating broke the internet. So this could be the rock bottom he needs to turn his attitude around…
I really hope that he gets his act together and does some self reflection after this... The Try Guys deserve better /:
I am the product of an affair. My mum cheated on my dad and got pregnant with me as a result. My existence comes with so much guilt because of it
You have absolutely NOTHING to be guilty about. I know it might be hard to believe, but it's true. I'm really sorry you were born into a situation like that and it's unfair that you have to deal with the trauma that comes with it. I hope you understand that you're worth so much more and the actions of your parents is not a reflection on who you are.
I absolutely despite cheaters, they made a conscious decision to hurt their partner, repeated or not. My mom had a shit bf who tried to get engaged to her but was caught MULTIPLE times cheating on my mom with another woman, was even directly caught by my mom and his mom a few times, but would always play the stupid 'i didnt mean to, im gonna change, i really do love you and blah blah blah' well finally after a shitty few years finally broke up, and yes he was a jealous and insecure af man. His daughter was also living with us to at the time when he was cheating since him and his daughter had been living with us as well for years, but you know he only cared about himself.
Good riddance! Your mom deserves SO much better than an insecure, jealous, consistently cheating partner who brings more pain than anything else. I'm sorry you and your mom had to deal with that kind of trauma, and I think you both are amazing for realizing your worth and kicking him to the curb. Hope you both are healing and understanding that you both deserve THE BEST! 💗
I think it going to be really hard on the kid because it all online and the kid can see how there dads where.
THIS!! The kids and the wives are the innocent victims that got wrapped up in all of this because their dad/husbands decided to cheat and it's all over the internet, which makes things even more complicated. /:
Really i found someone who matches my vibe now. I was cheated on and had to deal with ptsd aftermath. I feel bad for what ariel and the others you mentioned going through.The audacity of some men and also("other") women just ruining and kinda humiliating them is outrageous.
I'm so sorry that you had that experience and had to navigate through ptsd /: nobody deserves to be betrayed by their partners. Ariel, Will, and the Try Guys fam deserve so much better.
@@theflyingarioh hey there! Thanks a lot im feeling much better these days☺. I have seen other videos of yours especially how to forgive within was really something i am trying to practice. Thanks for showing and giving such a good perspective.
I agree on everything you said ESPECIALLY the insecure reason. My dad cheated on my mom multiple times and idk he's reasons all I know is that he's a dick for doing that to my mom and ruining my family's life. He's probably insecure that he doesn't have a job and my mom is doing all the work but he doesn't even have the right to do that even if he didn't abused us in the past cheating and cheating MULTIPLE times is just not it. I hate cheaters period.
I'm SO sorry you and your mom went through that! He had absolutely NO RIGHT to do that to you both for any reason and the fact that he probably tried to assert dominance over the situation by cheating (when he's actually insecure). You and your mom deserve SO much more than an insecure, abusive, cheating person in your life.
I mean I do think there is nuance when power dynamics become involved, but ultimately it really is a decision to cheat with a married person. I just think we shouldn’t forget that the power dynamic does exist entirely. It’s kinda hard to keep the balance between that and holding people accountable.
I agree! If one person is in a position of power, it's not so clear cut especially when we don't know what happened behind closed doors. In the end, the cheaters decided to cheat so they need to be held accountable, but it IS complicated when power dynamics are involved.
I'm really learning through my marriage breakdown that it was never me. I loved him, I asked him to get help, I cleaned the house, I treated him well, I was patient, I was loyal. It was never me. It was him.
Whilst it feels like I failed, I'm starting to see that he failed me and he failed us.
I am seeing that you can love someone with 100% of you but if they don't return it, it's not your fault.
ABSOLUTELY! It was never because of what you did or didn't do. Cheating is always about the cheater themselves.
I hate that you have to go through this, but it was never your fault he cheated. It's his and only his.
I will agree that sleeping around when everyone is single is perfectly fine , I will say that I understand the idea of an open relationship however that seems like a complicated mess and I will leave it alone personally.
Yes, I agree! it doesn't matter as long as everyone involved is single and everything is consensual. Open relationships are pretty cool, but I agree that it can get complicated so communication & boundaries are key!
I would typically agree (especially since my parents divorced because my dad cheated with a younger woman), but we don't know Alex, as much as people like to think they do from her public persona. We have know idea how much or how little the employer/employee dynamic was in play, especially because she outright admitted she was a fangirl before working for them. In the end, it's fine to have whatever opinion you want, but anyone actively persuading others that Alex "deserves" to be punished more is straight up bullying... and you need to let it go.
Eugene basically told everyone to leave her alone (and I think he meant Ariel, too, if she decides to stay with Ned), anyone going against their wishes will contribute to making the situation for them more difficult. Imagine his angry face judging you any time you decide you know better than him, and that Alex deserves more backlash. Besides that, it looks like Alex lost her fiance at this point, it's not up to us to make sure she's punished further.
I dunno, I feel like even remaining neutral, because this is a precarious situation between employer/employee, while not condoning her actions, is still seen as defending her. Nah, I just would prefer if the internet acted like grownups about it instead of devolving into a high schooler. If I can leave her be, someone that had their life upended by a cheating dad and "other woman", no one else has any excuse.
You have made some good points.
That's a good point! We don't know what happened behind closed doors with Ned & Alex (especially since he was her boss while she was his employee) so there's still a lot of missing information to jump to conclusions. Eugene was right when he said that the internet (and society) are much harsher to women than men so we need to make sure that we don't spread hate to either Alex or Ariel.
However, I think that we still need to hold people accountable. I've seen a lot of people say that Alex was 100% innocent because of this dynamic and that's just not true because she not only cheated with Ned, but she cheated on her fiancé as well.
As you mentioned, the situation is complicated because their dynamic can't allow for a "consensual workplace relationship" and it's not up to random strangers on the internet to determine what's what. But at the end of the day, the actions of Ned and Alex hurt a lot of people and they should be held accountable.
I heard that people who cheat often make their marriage their entire personality to make up for the cheating.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though
I don't have any proof of this, but I do think that people who are insecure about something tend to overcompensate in life (not just when it comes to cheating) so I think you may have a point!
There's a lot of reasons for why cheating happens. I'm not going to defend the action itself, but it's not simplistic.
You see, gender stereotypes exist, and these stereotypes affect society and the people that live within it. In case you've already noticed, there's standards for this. In the role of sexism, in the sense that a man who cheats would be praised for doing so(the toxic masculinity ideal that men would be men, and men are always sexually polygamous and that doing this is a proof of manhood, ridiculing a Virgin man who has never had sex), on the other hand, a woman who cheats would be utterly demonized for doing so(The toxic femininity ideal that women are puritan creatures and that women who are sexually polygamous are whores and prostitutes and are cheap, and in their case, virginity is valued, instead of ridiculed).
So you can see this dynamic, to get that out of the way. You also have to consider other important factors to play here.
Like Sexual Repression and Starvation in relationships, yes. It's a thing, and can be extremely frustrating for one partner or the other. The ones who are unable to do this end up cheating. Sexual Starvation can sometimes be used in abusive marriages or relationships as a sort of power dynamic and can be harmful and might drive someone to the edge.
Another one here is the normalization of toxic monogamy culture and romanticism of love.
You see, toxic monogamy culture is one that extremely prioritizes the tenets of monogamy in a very puritan manner and utterly demonizes any other sexual deviant attitudes that don't align with societal expectations of heteronormative relationships. This can also be applied to homosexual relationships too.
This is tied hand in hand to romanticism as we understand it from the 18th century, which made a lot of archetypal but harmful stereotypes about love.
Here are just a few things I'd consider part of the toxic monogamy culture.
1. The idea that your partner fulfills you and is all you should ever require.
2. The idea that being attracted to another person who isn't your partner is shameful.
3. The idea that your partner is the only person that should and can supply all your needs, and that if you find someone outside who isn't your partner that may do these things, that's utterly unacceptable.
4. The idea that you can ONLY love one person.
5. The idea that sexual jealousy or overprotectiveness of your partner is equal to true love.
6. The idea that being unsatisfied with your partner is something in itself inherently wrong.
7. The idea that True love conquers all, without considering a lot of issues like compatibility.
8. Finally, the last one, demonizing sexually polygamous relationships as degeneracy or debauchery.
I can go on and on. The point I'm trying to make here is, the idea of cheating is very complex. It's not just about people being bad because that's it, or about giving excuses because they're irredeemable assholes. And I like that you stated that this isn't black and white.
There's a lot of nuance as to why people cheat. Power dynamics, ideology, emotional immaturity, gender stereotypes, a lot of stuff.
I think we can all agree that cheating is wrong, but I feel like you didn't provide quite enough nuance to this. My dad cheated on my mom due to being severely unhappy in their marriage. I'm not saying what he did was right, but just that there are more complex reasons why someone would do such a horrible thing.
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omg no way! thank you for being here 🥺💞
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 nothing but true words
It’s Zilch, not Zilt.
oops my bad thanks for letting me know!
yeah been on both sides. f that but the media is trying to make ales the victim.... shocker only blaming Ned. guess because Ned is more popular than Alex
Right! I understand why Ned was fired from the company while Alex wasn't (legal complications) and that he was in a position of power so we don't know EVERYTHING that happened, but people are acting as if Alex is completely innocent..and.. that's not it 😭
Maybe I'm not one to speak on this since I've never been in a relationship, but I was always under the impression that whoever the person cheated with wasn't responsible. It's the person in the committed relationship that cheated at the game, it's not someone else's responsibility to keep your husband/wife in check. Like Alex and Ned. Yeah, Ned's the piece of shit for cheating on Ariel but Alex wasn't a part of that relationship, Ned's the one at fault for cheating at his marriage. Alex should also be thrown to the lions for cheating on her own relationship, but I'm not seeing people mad at Ned for ruining Alex's relationship with her partner when everyone is blaming Alex for ruining Ned's relationship with Ariel.
I dunno, I just thought it was kinda odd.
EDIT:
Also, I remember reading somewhere that men are more likely to leave a relationship if they already have something lined up. They won't leave someone and just be alone for a while like a woman will.
It's cause Ned is the public figure but if you asked me he is to blame for ruining is relationship.
She is to blame for ruining her own relationship.
And THEY'RE both to blame for doing it with someone who was in a committed relationship.
I think there are multiple reasons you’re seeing much more hate towards Alex for “ruining Ned’s relationship” than you are towards Ned for “ruining Alex’s relationship”.
For starters, fans feel like they know Ned - and Ariel by extension - much more than they know Alex and her fiancé. I think that automatically makes people take Ariel’s side, Ariel’s side is that she was cheated on, the person her husband cheated on her with is Alex, which makes Alex the bad one. While - as far as I remember - Alex’s fiancé has never been in a video, though he’s been discussed in a few videos.
In general, I think people are much harsher on women than they are on men. People are almost always going to give the man more benefit of the doubt because “he can’t help it” or “it’s in his nature”, while dragging the woman he cheated with as being a “home wrecker” and “seducing” the man - as though men are incapable of saying no and are ONLY going to cheat because they’re “biologically predisposed” to cheating. This, again, makes Alex the bad one and gives Ned a free pass.
Another reason might be because the repercussions have been stronger for Ned than for Alex. As far as I know, Alex hasn’t been fired - and I go back and forth on whether she should. If Ned cheated and that’s why he got fired, then Alex should be fired as well. But this situation is more complicated, in that Ned was a boss, while Alex was his subordinate, and it doesn’t matter how “consensual” the relationship is claimed to be, they were never on equal footing, which I think leaves people giving Ned more flack than Alex (and, in my opinion, rightfully so). Whether he intentionally used his position as her boss to start the relationship or not, the fact is, he was her boss and should’ve behaved more professionally. But the fact that people are likely seeing this as an abuse of power almost makes what Ned did worse (he had “farther to fall” than Alex) - even though their actions of cheating on someone are the same. But this employer/subordinate relationship, mixed with - typically - giving men the free pass means Ned had “more to lose” and that “makes” what Alex did to Ned somehow “worse” than what Ned did to Alex.
Not to mention, I think people bought into - or at least really wanted to buy into - Ned’s family act. Happy marriages seem to be few and far between and I think when there’s an example of a good one, you cling to it, despite any cracks. And the general consensus is “shame on Alex for ruining the happy marriage”. Nobody really knows how Alex’s relationship with her fiancé is - we can likely assume if they’ve been together for 7+ years and are engaged, that they’re happy, but we don’t really know and out of sight, out of mind.
That was incredibly long - I’ve been watching the Try Guys since their early Buzzfeed days and I was one of the people that was completely shocked at hearing all of this come out… I am also the product of an affair and have unknowingly been involved in affairs (well, one, but still). I have a loooooooot of feelings about this whole situation.
I don't blame alex for cheating with ned but I'm blaming her for cheating on her boyfriend of 10 fucking years , befriending Ariel and acting all sweet to her ,they are both wrong , you can't steal a man / woman who's committed to their partners.
I’ve noticed no one ever talks about sexless marriages. Like years with no sex
Then just leave, don't cheat
Sexless marriages suck, but that still doesn't warrant cheating.. Even though it's difficult to go about divorce, ending the marriage FIRST and seeking out other partners is the way to go.
@@theflyingarioh and if they don’t want you to leave and you tell them you will probably end up cheating ?
@@theflyingarioh bc lets be real, you can love tf outta your partner but if they aren’t meeting a human need,, it’s not realistic to just say divorce when otherwise the marriage is perfect.
@@MaZiya___ easier said than done. How do you leave an otherwise perfect marriage with the love of your life? This isnt about emotions, its about human urges.
I disagree. The woman are not equally to blame. The men were in a relationship and should’ve respected their spouse no matter who came at them. If they were faithful they would’ve stayed faithful even with other people coming at them. Stop blaming the other women.
Alex the one Ned cheated with was in a long term relationship as well even engaged and was well aware of Ned's marriage as she was close with his wife.
Blaming men cannot always be the answer. The worst betrayal is when everyone is well aware that the other is in a relationship and still goes ahead even when engaged to hurt both partners.
Woman here. I blame Alex just as much as I blame Ned.
I see your point, but Alex was also in a relationship (engaged), so she is definitely equally to blame. Aaaand she claimed to have a friendship with his wife??? I'm sorry, but that just makes her a horrible horrible person in its own way.
I don’t know much about the Adam Levine cheating scandal, but as far as Ned and Alex go, Alex was engaged to someone she had been committed to for 7+ years. She knew going into that relationship that she was with someone and that Ned was with someone - and that there were children involved. Not to mention, she and Ariel were supposed to be friends. I think the only reason there’s nuance to that situation is that Ned was in a position of power but, Alex is just as much to blame and just as wrong as Ned.