In a time when marriage was used as a diplomatic tool, marrying for love was scandalous all on its own. The fact that it was the king making a love match set tongues to wagging at a furious pace. On top of this she was a widow with young children. A king would usually be wed to a young maiden. In a time when life expectancy was short the younger the bride the more years she had left to produce the necessary male heirs. "An heir and a spare" was deemed the bare minimum. It was said that the marriage of Elizabeth and Edward only came about “by Sorcerie and Wichecrafte, committed by the said Elizabeth, and her Moder Jaquett Duchess of Bedford”. Elizabeth's maternal side of the family, the Luxembourgs, claimed a mythical descent from the water deity Melusine. Rumors such as these were extremely serious. They could and often did result in innocent deaths. This shows just what an uproar their marriage caused. They seemed to truly love each other though and their marriage lasted around 19 years and produced several children. They were against the odds but endured. A love story for the ages.
You are SO WRONG on the wedding date of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville!!!!!!!!!! Pregnancy for all humans is 9 months, on average. If Elizabeth Woodville gave birth to Elizabeth of York on February 11, 1466.......go back 9 months aaaaaand TA-DA!!!!!!!!!!! MAY OF 1465!!!!!! So, perhaps THEY decided to get married on May Day because it was such a big deal in the time period they were married??? IF they were married "in late summer", as you have claimed, (which would be this time of year fyi!!! August!!!) So let's give August 1, 1465 as their marriage date to give you the best odds here!! (Btw......August 1st STILL ISN'T late summer....late summer would be like August 21 or another date later in August) The baby would have been born in May of 1466.....possibly a premature birth in April. But it seems Elizabeth had easy pregnancies that she had absolutely ZERO issues with carrying to full term, so I HIGHLY doubt Elizabeth would have given birth prematurely this time......plus, all the detractors of their marriage would have written and talked about her giving birth to a weak and sickly girl!!! NO DOUBTS about that!!! And if they married in August, she would have been giving birth at only 6 months pregnancy........see where I'm going here??? And seeing as Elizabeth of York was born healthy and strong.....I'm going with Elizabeth Woodville had a full pregnancy with Elizabeth of York!!! Therefore there is absolutely no way Edward and Elizabeth were married any later than May of 1465. None. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Unless you are claiming that Elizabeth Woodville, a woman known for and written about in history for NOT giving her body to any man before being married to him, was having sex with Edward IV for 3 months BEFORE they were married???? That would be the ONLY way your date of an August wedding and a February birth could co-exist in reality................
I find her story fascinating, and I appreciate your detail and clarity about facts vs supposition. As for their marriage, it reminds me of their grandson's marriage to Anne Boleyn, in that it seems both women refused to be seduced and then discarded as mistresses, and ended up as Queen of England.
She is one of my favorite historical people....with all of her losses SHE and Margaret Beaufort SOLVED the Wars by marrying their daughter and son. Very admirable ladies
Yes but I think the thousands of people who died and suffered during the Tudor era might not be so enthusiastic. The two ladies SOLUTION was hatched by their own greed, not because they cared about the common people. Henry Tudor did have the option of simply staying where he was.
I thank you for using the family tree graphic to show the familial relationships as well as the colors to explain the intricacies of the York/Lancastrian dynasties. A point that has previously confused me with all the Edwards, johns, Henry's etc. Thank you!!
Brilliant. Thanks for discussing Elizabeth Woodville. She is one of my favourite characters of the time. Such a strong and powerful woman but she suffered much too.
"Women of the Wars of the Roses" - thank you for excellent content as per usual - no wonder Elizabeth chose religious retreat as an option in the end - she did not seek any of the excitement that happened around her - to survive the climax of the Wars of the Roses as she did must have felt miraculous - I'd take a vow after all that - ty HC - 🛸
It was normal for high-born women to enter a religious institution. Catherine de Valois possibly had gone to Bermondsey Abbey (next to the Shard) before her. The Beguinage is popular in continental Europe. Cecily Neville chose to live in Berkhamstead in a major house and Margaret Beaufort at Collyweston and by all accounts relations were cordial.
Thank you for doing this series! I love watching period dramas, and watched all of The White Queen/The White Princess/The Spanish Queen/The Tudors etc. Its nice to hear someone speak on the facts versus the fiction. This kind of history really interests me, and you do such a beautiful job bringing it to life! ❤❤❤
Aren't they a fantastic, beautifully produced series? I love learning the genuine events from brilliant channels like this and look at the embellishments as historical fanfiction. 😄
Whew! That family tree is a migraine waiting to happen! You did a great job in giving the particulars. Thank you for your hard work and brain busting effort. As always, you’re the best!
She’s my favorite of all the ladies of the War of the Roses. Excellent content. Yes, it was scandalous. When Edward IV married Elizabeth Woodville he lost his friendship the Earl of Warwick. I think she had to adapt to being queen consort quickly, especially when her husband’s crown was still in dispute. It must’ve been difficult for her giving birth to her son Edward V while she was in refuge at Westminster Abby. She was intelligent and gutsy. Thank you. Your work is brilliant as always. Have a great weekend. 🌞
Yes, I can't imagine the stress of having to give birth in sanctuary either. She had servants with her I think, but it must have been a seriously reduced household and a very different experience to when she had her other royal children.
Elizabeth Woodville and Edward IV are my 14th great-grandparents! So I loved this look at her life and the wonderful explanation of the Yorkist vs. Lancastrian families at the beginning.
I have lots of people here in the comments of my videos who say they are descended from the Plantagenets and Tudors and I sometimes wonder how closely related they all are. I quite like the idea of distant cousins finding each other via my videos :-)
That's so amazing! Meanwhile, I can't find record of my last name anywhere in France. We just randomly show up in Quebec where the record states we came from France while fleeing the revolution. If I'm ever wealthy I'm hiring a good genealogist.
Wow, the absolute BEST EXPLANATION of how things came to be! I have never heard a better chronological/hierarchical discourse of the family tree down from Edward III! Thank you much for such wonderful content. To take the complexity of a topic such as this and to break down the immensity of a topic into more digestible/palatable portions or understandings that lay people such as I can begin to get a better grasp upon; that which has taken decades, perhaps centuries to reconstruct and display in such a way as to form a cohesive whole, is a standard and testament to your scholarly mastery of this subject. I wish there were more teachers and scholars of your caliber in our school systems. But maybe thats where TH-cam and Internet research come into their own.. For those who seek, shall be those who find....
Hi Jeffrey, thank you for such a lovely comment. I'm delighted that you found my approach to the family tree and the origins of the Wars of the Roses easy enough to digest, as I know it's complicated and something a lot of people struggle to wrap their heads around. I hope you'll come back for part 2 of Elizabeth's story :-)
@@HistoryCalling Absolutely! Wouldn't miss it for anything and I have my notifications turned on! I would also love to donate and support you thru your Patreon Account. I love the idea of being able to support my favorite TH-cam content creators and become more involved in such a wonderful community! I consider myself a life long learner, and to that "Keep on Learning" has become a motto I use frequently as it's congruency harmonizes perfectly with my outlook on life. Cheers to you and can't wait to see what's next!
Your use of the family trees helped immensely! The War of the Roses was not something we learned about in school in the US, so my previous knowledge came from shows/books like The White Queen. Now I have a much better understanding of what happened during this crazy era!
I'd actually never gone into it in detail myself until I started this channel, so I understand how you feel. So many people, all related and many with the same first name. It's a nightmare!
We spent maybe ten minutes on it in AP European History in high school. But that was way too short to have any idea how important this time was! I've done a bunch of research personally just for fun, though my specialty is really 17th century England.
She is my 16th Great-grandmother, and her son Thomas Grey 1st Marquess of Dorset is my 15th Great Grandfather his father was Sir John Grey my 16th Great Grandfather. I have been doing my family history for a while now and have been surprised at my family's amazing history. What I have learned is how connected all the nobility was to each other and how many royals and nobility I have in my own family. It sometimes very unreal and hard to wrap my head around but we all have to be related to someone and it is a part of who we are.
The history of the Lancastrians is very interesting, not only because there were so many participants involved, but the crown seemed to change often. The heir and spares proved difficult. My favorite person during the Lancaster era was John of Gaunt’s third wife (first his mistress) Katherine Swynford. If I can remember correctly, her sister was Phillipa who married Geoffrey Chaucer , the author of the Canterberry Tales. I was so enthralled by Katherine’s life I named our daughter after her. I would love to know more.
I am descended from John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford. It is amazing how connected so many members of the nobility were and the fights and intrigue that always seemed to follow them.
I love Elizabeth Woodville. She was a strong, intelligent lady but also a very loving Mom to her 12 kids... Her kids cherished her & she passed on her loving parenting style to her daughter, Elizabeth of York who was also known to be a loving, hands on, nurturing Mom to her kids (including Henry VIII)... I often wonder had Elizabeth Woodville & Elizabeth of York lived to see Henry VIII become an adult how might history have differed... Henry loved his Mom & would listen to her before listening to anyone else... But she died shortly before he turned 12...
I love history... And it's even better when it's ur own history.....last year I started to found out where we came from.... I was shocked.... I'm both York and Lancasterian......she was one of my great grandmother......my daughter loved the white queen.....so last year we watch the show....... I realize I knew the last names...... So I went to my books and open it up and it shock my daughter as well...... Thank you for teaching parts of my history.
It is wonderful when our children discover they were not 'hatched' but truly have a history. My son had to absorb the joint history of Scot highlander and an Croation rebel.
This is my favorite period in English history, so bring it on, I can never get enough, and thank you for all your hard work, you're in the top 3 of my favorite channels and I enjoy my Friday morning with you and a cup of coffee ☕😀, so thanks again and love you 😍
The family trees 🌲 are helpful but a little confusing. When reading historical novels, or non-fiction books📚, if a family tree 🌲 was included, I find that I constantly refer back to it throughout the book 📚. That's when they're very helpful.
A superbly researched production as always. I would have liked more content about Elizabeth's personal experiences. There may not be particulars available but perhaps some additional context is, on things like life in "sanctuary" and what immunity it granted. For example, did Elizabeth Woodville have to stay one the building or could she have access to the entire precincts of Westminster? If so, what were those like at the time compared to royal palaces, and was she sharing space with less rarefied "fugitives" like debtors? Did people in sanctuary need the permission of the particular religious order to stay in the church? How did they pay for their needs while confined? Could nobles in sanctuary engage in commerce and communication with the outside world?
I happen to find sanctuary particularly alien and fascinating. Other ideas: Her and her father's exact social position relative to their spouses (I'm thinking of the fabulous breakdown you gave for us novices on the rank of "Lady" in another video); what it meant to prepare the Tower for a siege, etc.
Elizabeth Woodville is too widely unknown, for the brilliance, ambition and drama that was her life. She was intelligent, astute and cunning and ranks up there with the best of England's queens. She also lost a lot and suffered, due to her ambition and the times in which she lived, but was ultimately victorious in her aims and lived to see the end of the wars of the roses. I hope you do a video on her rival and one time ally Margaret Beaufort.
I guess it was the end. Unless you count the people Henry VII , VIII murdered because they had a much stronger claim then their own. Even Catherine of Aragon had a stronger claim. Lucky for her her nephew was who he was.
👏👏Echoing Chris Banks: Wow! It's amazing how you present so much detail and bring these historical figures to life, HC. I'm not familiar with Elizabeth except through your videos so this is fresh and exciting. Can't wait to check out the Patreon extras! As always, thanks for completing my week on a high note. Be well. 🙏🏼
I absolutely love the way you say the word tower. It is so very charming. I've never had history taught to me with such a sweet voice. I so look forward to your historical videos. Best wishes from Ohio, USA .
@@HistoryCallingDon't you dare! Americans can handle a different pronunciation of words. It broadens our minds. Just ignore the critics. They don't know what they're talking about.
Thanks. Another amazing video full of accurate detail. Yes, their marriage was scandalous and certainly rocked the boat of the time. However, look at their legacy. Grandparents to Henry VIII and Great Grandparents to Elizabeth I. Can’t wait for the next episode.
As always, perfection has been met, Dr Ms History! ❤️ It always amuses me just now huge the medieval family trees are. I guess because now in the UK you’d have one or two children, three tops, in the ‘normal’ family, while back then you’d have to have an heir, and a few spares just because of how dangerous it was just living in some time periods!
Though I've long been familiar with Elizabeth's story, your synopsis of her life at the beginning really brought it home in a concrete way. I've just never been able to warm to her as a person; I think it's all of her grasping relatives that ruin things for me. And although grasping relatives are nothing new, the Woodvilles really went above and beyond. With your mention of the Hastings document, perhaps that's another possibility of how Edward may have come to know about Elizabeth, given Hastings' good relationship with Edward as a loyal friend and supporter. And they even shared the same mistress -- Jane Shore -- though probably not at the same time:)
I really admire her resolve to maintain her position that she fought hard for and for surviving such a turbulent time period but I know what you mean, she's difficult to warm to, so is Margaret Beaufort I think, you can admire their grit and determination but looking at what their contemporaries had to say about them, they don't sound like nice people, both seemed to rub people the wrong way.
@@susanmccormick6022 I can't really say anyone was worse than the other, they were all moving for their own gain. Some were just swept up in it all though and really didn't get a choice like all the York children, i feel heart sorry for them.
I’m so glad you explained who made up the Wars of the Roses. The families involved always confused me. I also love to hear her story! Such a great video. Thank you.
You're very welcome. I know I repeat myself a little bit when I do that stuff (from my other Wars of the Roses videos), but I always think it's worth a quick refresher, as it's so complex.
Such a tangled story.........but utterly fascinating!!!! It's been a long time desire of mine to visit the Tower of London.....soooooooo much history!!! Perhaps next year 😀
Yay! I was the 1000th thumbs up 👍. This period of history is my favourite, and I'm a Yorkist through and through.... even though I'm only a quarter English! The York/Lancaster family tree was confusing but interesting in the way that many seemed to be jostling for power. Edward and Elizabeth's marriage was certainly very controversial, and with everything going on around her, Elizabeth to have survived the Wars of the Roses was incredibly lucky.
These deep, focused videos have taught me more than any dry text I’ve poured over in my 25 year obsession with this drama. I only JUST learned & confirmed my husband is a direct descendant via Edmund of Langley and I’ve been walking on cloud 9 since. I know it’s dozens of generations ago but thrilling to have a connection. I knew the tree was complicated but once I dove in via my husband’s tree I was overwhelmed!!
THANK YOU for going through the lineage chart of how we got to the York and Lancaster factions! I knew some of it but it was very muddled. Appreciate how clearly you explained the relationshipd :)
As always I love your videos. They are so well researched and backed up by credible sources. If you ever write a book (or books) I will be in line to purchase! Very well done as always.
With the amount of times both earlier and later in the story that people had been dragged out of sanctuary to their deaths, I think that heading into Westminister was probably a bigger risk for Elizabeth and her children than most people realise. The Lancastrians chose to abide by the rules this time but they could have very easily chosen not to and as a result the Wars of the Roses could have been cut short as the York line could have been seriously reduced. Fantastic content as always and I can't wait for the rest of the story next week. I am curious to see what actual documentary evidence there is for what Elizabeth Woodville was doing when in sanctuary for the second time there is.
The Lancastrians by and large were very pious - look at the number of foundations they provided money for, Eton College, King's College, re-foundation of Christ's College and St. John's College in Cambridge. To leave Elizabeth in Sanctuary would fit into that. However the Yorkists ignored Sanctuary at Tewkesbury Abbey which had to be re-dedicated afterwards. They extricated the Duke of Somerset Margaret Beaufort's kinsman, sadly executing him the next day. The Lancastrians did however after Wakefield and Ludford pillage the surrounding 'enemy' territory.
I’m enjoying your videos of this era. I’ve read all of Phillipa Gregory’s books, and that’s how I became so interested in this era of British history. Thank you for sharing your dedication and research with us! Greetings from Kansas, USA
Just a word of warning, Gregory is more of a fiction writer than anything, and she’s noted for her poor scholarly standards and heavy bias towards Richard III to the point where she’s been known to use unreliable sources and straight up falsehoods to defend him. I’m certain she’s an entertaining and skilled writer, but as a historian she’s generally seen as a hack.
Absoulutly superb HC, Amazing research and and as I have mentioned before your powers of deduction on certain aspects of dates and times etc are amazing sherlock would be proud, as always Thank you. 😊
Thank you for your Due Diligence in researching with confidence, your love of the Role of women in History. Some folk think they were there just as Baby Making Machines [when one dies, replace ASAP]. I adored Henry & Elizabeth's amazing battle for Family, and their Calling. Both were Heroic, but the price they paid was very HIGH. Elizabeth: 2 sons murdered in Tower; Father & brothers executed; jailed beneath church [a crypt] to safeguard her children while having her husband banished or hunted, not to mention her Mother almost being burned at the stake for being an accused 'witch''.
There is so much back and forth as well as round and round. One should wonder where one will land at the end of the tale. I would only say for sure it will not be Kansas. I mean wow. Fascinating content tonight as always. I am looking forward to the next part.
Thanks for this video! I just love her story of a " "love match" back in times that a true "love match" wasn't a reason to marry ! Marriages were for political reasons and for money...not love! I'd like to get more information about Elizabeth Woodvilless Mother, Jaquetta of Luxembourg... One question I have is was she from the country of Luxembourg? I'm curious because my grandparents on my Mothers side came to the U.S. in the early 1920's and knowing how small Luxembourg is I would just love to know! Plus she married for love as well ! Plus she was an amazing woman in her own right... Thanks so much again! A great story and a favorite of mine!💖😊
Your video's are always well researched and presented in a fashion that is easy to follow. And while i understand the need for advertising, the amount and length of the advertisements within, have caused me on several occasions to simply not bother finishing watching
According to ancestry, she is "wife of 1st cousin 17x removed" in my tree... via my mom's mother's side. I gotta say I see a resemblance. There are a lot of well known historical figures in my tree on my mom's side... and they all look a lot like me. For years I noticed i looked like certain old renaissance portraits of some people and thought it was a neat coincidence, only to find out recently its cuz I am actually related to them! It's sort of cool... and like makes me feel a bit better about my looks. I was bullied mercilessly in school for looking so "different" and fair complected. People called me ugly all the time. Well... I would have fit right in back then. xp
I remember reading a book a while back where the author went on for quite a bit about why her surname is Wydville not Woodville (I'm not even sure if I spelt it right, but it was a "Wyd" not "Wood"). I've always seen it mostly as Woodville, but that book has left an impression, but I can't remember the reasoning, so it's frustrating!! It was making me feel like one of those novels where they take three pages describing the grass😄
I mean werent names back then spelled differently all the time? Like how Catherine of Aragon favored various spellings of her name such as Kathryn or Katherine,etc? Or does that not apply to family names?
@@agatha6999 It doesn’t apply to surnames ( family names). Many names in England ‘evolved’ following the Norman conquest and subsequent attempts to integrate. There is interesting information about the Wyvills if you look up Grafton Regis. The manor house itself is significant because since Roman times it was a recognised settlement being just off Watling Street.
Exactly. English had only been the official language of the Court since 1399 under Henry IV. Chaucer had been recent and was one of the first to codify it into a universally accepted idiom. Many surnames of Norman-French ancestry were being anglicised. Various spellings Wdyvlll, Wodevile existed before Woodville (modern) became adopted. By the time of the outbreak of the WotR English had only been the official language of record for 56 years and embryonic.
Yes, her name was spelt various ways during her lifetime and Wydville was certainly one of them. Both are valid. I find it's good to just choose one spelling though and stick with it for consistency's sake.
Thanks Stephanie. I'm always glad when the family trees and my explanations work for people, as they take a long time to put together and I know the Wars of the Roses can be very confusing.
Thank you so much for using the family tree, it makes this so much easier to understand and it became very clear who was who, and with all the Edward it was confusing, but your grateful ideas of doing the family tree, this help to make clear and also since I read books on her life, I was still a little confused with all those Edward's.
It's interesting how kings back then wanted to have as many sons as possible but it seems like the one of the origins of the Wars of the Roses was because there were many sons and as a result, their descendants all had claims to the throne. Primogeniture can't be much of a a barrier when you can just murder or overthrow each other if one wants the crown bad enough, it seems.
Perhaps thats why King Henry VII and VIII thought 1 son was sufficient? Because we dont see kings having as many sons as Edward III did till centuries later with George III I believe
At 4:51, and I wanted to take the time to thank you profusely for so clearly illustrating WHY THE HELL all this happened and how twisted up it becomes without your use of some color and line drawings. It is all so clear to me now.
My great grandmother many times back through her oldest son Thomas. Some of her descendants moved to America which led to me. I have always had a fascination w Elizabeth’s story and was amazed to find out I descend from her which I learned recently.
She is also my 16th Great-grandmother, and her son Thomas Grey 1st Marquess of Dorset is my 15th Great Grandfather. I have been doing my family history for a while now and have been surprised at my family's amazing history.
My overall impression of Elizabeth Woodville is that, if nothing else, she was probably very intelligent and almost certainly more so than Edward. I could absolutely see her deciding that getting his attention was probably the best chance she could have at solving her problems, even if marriage wasn't her initial goal. Not that there wasn't love or anything else involved later, but I find the entire situation more believable as one of mutual convenience and expedience than some great, dramatic love story. I also don't believe that she was some gasping damsel or anything like that, and that she was probably just as tough in her own way as Margaret of Anjou or any of the other royal women who get tarred with that brush. Thank you for another fantastic video!
I cannot wholly agree, maybe you are correct about Elizabeth but Edward IV did seem to have a genuine passion for her; his marriage to her was wholly inconvenient and led to all manner of problems that ultimately led to the murder of her sons by her brother in law. Had Edward conveniently married a foreign princess much trouble would have been avoided.
Hmm, I understand what you mean about it not being as romantic as some have made out (he cheated on her a lot for instance), but I think there was a fair amount of lust, on his side at least, at the start. I agree that he wasn't always the brightest spark in the fire though and that she probably wasn't particularly grasping either.
@@themaltesepenny3504 I can see what you mean. By marriage of convenience, I was more getting at the idea that he got to act on what he wanted to while she potentially gained security, but that might not be quite right for the situation.
@@HistoryCalling I tend to separate lust from romance, but maybe in these situations one is as good as the other. It sounds like I need to re-evaluate my impressions of her, too!
@@AxeMichi It was a common practice that nobles would often persuade reluctant women to sleep with them by contracting secret fake marriages; indeed Edward was said to have done this with a lady named Eleanor Butler, and this was one of the reasons why Richard III declared his nephews bastards.
I just noticed that one of the pictures says Burlingame Public Library. We have a city called Burlingame here in California!! I wonder if it came from there?
Probably yes, because place names in the USA have origins from England (New York, New Jersey, Birmingham, etc), Netherlands (New Amsterdam = old name of New York), German (Gettysburg, any place ending in - berg or - burg), Spanish/ Mexican (San Antonio, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, etc).
@@HistoryCalling I know many people don't like Phillipa Gregory's books 📚, but I really enjoy them. And yes. I know they're novels but she really brings the characters to life.
@@HistoryCalling Definitely. Each time I find an historical fiction piece I like it always leads me to research the real history so it’s a win/win, despite the often less than accurate scripts… Okay, Max Irons, I watched for Max Irons, I can admit it. 😂
Another so interesting video. It’s not a part of history I know a great deal about so it was great to learn the facts. I think they should have been allowed to marry who they wished really . Also makes me feel like I would not have wanted to be Royalty in those days lol . Must have been very stressful
One thing ppl forget is that Elizabeth Woodville lost THREE sons and a brother in the fallout over Richard IIIs seizure of the throne, not just the two princes in the tower. Kind of crazy that Richard would be so brazen as to kill his nephews but leave his five nieces alive. Especially when you factor in Yorkist claims to throne by female lines of descent.
AW:Anthony Woodville is someone I would like to know more about.He was very gifted.He & Vaughn & Richard Woodville were executed by Richard & like Hastings death,that does bother me even if I am Ricardian.Edward should've had Richard know his nephews better.They were almost strangers as the young Prince was brought up by Anthony & spent time at Ludlow,whilst Richard stayed in the North where he was & still is, dearly loved.
Richard had a son when he moved to seize the throne and even when his son died he had no reason to believe he couldn’t have more. His sons would have far more claim than any daughters of his brother. His nieces wouldn’t have been a threat to him from his perspective
This was a very interesting and very informative video. You have done a terrific job on your research. Have you ever or do you plan to do an episode on Henry Viii's sister Margaret? I'm descended from her but don't know much about her.
Margaret Tudor is AMAZING!! I'm descended from her too, & she had a fascinating & pretty dramatic life, but she's yet another overshadowed Tudor- being the sister of Henry VIII & the grandmother of Mary, Queen of Scots will do that. HC will give us the BEST story of Margaret's life tho!
So glad were back to the Roses. Her in-laws the Greys of Groby were staunch Lancastrians and had been on Henry V's Agincourt campaign. Pity the acquiescence over sanctuary accorded to Elizabeth in Westminster by the Lancastrians wasn't matched by the Yorkists at Tewkesbury but that's the Yorkists for you.
Now, there's an apples-and-oranges comparison:) Allowing a woman and her children to take sanctuary is quite different from fighting a pitched battle for the crown...
@@katjack2780 Tewkesbury Abbey had to be re-dedicated, besides the battle was over and the Duke of Somerset was executed the next day. Edward had "form", he did the same thing with Owen Tudor the day after Mortimer's Cross and Lord Welles senior before Empingham not to mention executing his own brother George and restranging himself from his biggest supporter Warwick. After Ludfotd Queen Margaret captured Duchess Cecily, her eldest daughter Margaret of York and Cecily' s two youngest sons George & Richard. By all accounts they were treated fairly and taken back to Cuventry. Contrast that to how Margaret was treated after Tewkesbury when she was paraded in a chariot when taken back to London after her son had been executed possibly in cold blood by Clarence' s men and possibly by Clarence himself and later had her husband executed at prayer possibly on the orders of Edward. Thankfully the proper house won in the end.
@@English_Dawn I do not have an axe to grind (ho, ho) either way; I am a great admirer of Margaret of Anjou, for example. But atrocities were committed on both sides. I don't think Margaret's killing and displaying of Richard of York's head was exactly chivalrous. That "the ;proper house won in the end" is certainly moot. It's just a turn of Dame Fortune's Wheel.
The only possible explanation for Edward’s marrying Elizabeth Is love. He gave up every diplomatic and dynastic advantage and stuck with her firmly. Maybe he saw her intelligence and really liked her as well as desired her. And he certainly needed one person in his family he could trust. Maybe he didn’t feel he could ever trust a bride arranged for him by another. We’re talking the Wars of the Roses, right? Who else could he really trust?
Yes, I think there was a strong attraction to her if nothing else. He cheated on her a lot, but given the number of children they had, they were obviously still spending a lot of time together.
@@HistoryCalling It wouldn't have been the last time a powerful man stuck with his intelligent wife (or she stuck with him), even while getting it on with other temporary flings. Ask a recent American presidential candidate! In fact, you could ask the very intelligent late wives of several US presidents! But Elizabeth certainly had more children than they did!
@@HistoryCalling Then again it was the 'done thing' for powerful men to have as many 'concubines' as they wished, so I suppose most of their wives simply accepted it - until Anne Boleyn.
@@Nightbird1914 Perhaps that would be a good topic for another HC post: what do we really know about Mistress Shore? How reliable is the information we have about her?
I have to wonder how Elizabeth Woodville reacted to an offer of marriage. None of the stories really suggested that was her goal and her motives in the stories are always either refusing to sleep with a man shes not married to or trying to find help for her financial issues due to her mother-in-law
Elizabeth had big Edward wrapped around her finger 😁 married her as an unmarried widow who wouldn't give it up to the king even at dagger point and with all his advisors against it! Get it girl!! I know the dagger story might not be true but I love how it's Italians chronicling it, bringing that Italian passion and drama 😀
Although if she was deeply enough religious, she might have been frightened enough for her everlasting soul to refuse sex before marriage even if threatened with physical death.
The highlight on black was brilliant .. ( reminds me of a Star Trek control panel. ) . but it's still a mess to sort out. LOL. I think the dagger was probably used but I don't know who used it or why . lol .. another crazy mystery of the time. Elizabeth must have had beauty and brains.. and a captivating personality.. I suspect many women would love to bag a prince. She did endure a lot as many of the women did on both sides. Her story is interesting. Thanks.
@@HistoryCalling I just did a bit of a search, and I think it might be to do with filling the moat with wild flowers for the Queen's Jubilee. In March they'd have been preparing it.
Earl of Warwick: "Your Majesty, your queen comes with no political advantage and no dowry fit for your status as king. In fact, all she brings is a grasping, conniving family trying to headbutt their way into the upper ranks of the aristocracy through the making of advantageous marriages." Edward IV: "Yeah...but she's so hot!"
@@HistoryCalling I remember reading Sharon Key Penman's "The Sunne in Splendour", and all I could think was, "Yeah, that was totally Edward's reasoning." He really was led by his loins.
Interesting point to stop Elizabeth's story. Other than deciding it was marriage or nothing with Edward iv it's interesting how passive she is up to 1471. What we'll find in the second episode is that she becomes much more of a player. In becoming increasingly political she, like Margaret of Anjou, began to behave in a way outside the normal contemporary expectations of queenship. It didn't work out well for either of them! Maybe due to the weakness of Henry vi Margaret had more excuse? I certainly feel that Elizabeth was more aggressive in promoting the interests of her family than was wise. This was apparent in the destruction of Clarence, 1483 and her strange fall from grace under Henry vii. Still that's for next week and I'm looking forward to your take on all this!
I didn't realize that Elizabeth Woodville was also a descendant of John of Gaunt; thank you for teaching me something new with that (knotty) family tree.
Oh yeah History calling do you think you will be doing a video on Marilyn Monroe, Andrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, JFK, Elvis Presley or Elizabeth Taylor or any of these people at some point in the future
Really good vlog on Elizabeth Woodville. With a view to part 2, is there any connection between Margaret Beaufort and Richard 3rd? I don't know why, but I have always felt that MB is not as squeaky clean as some historians make out. Being an illegitimate granddaughter of Edward 3rd means her claim to the throne was always very tenuous and her son Henry 7th had very little entitlement. Really interested in how you handle part 2, so many thanks for this.
Not really Richard III was maternally a Neville whose power base was at Raby in the North of England. His maternal grandfather Ralph Neville had been with Henry V on the Agincourt Campaign and was enobled as the Earl of Westmorland (See Shakespeare's "Henry V"). Ralph's first family were staunch Lancastrians. His second family disputed heirlooms with the senior branch and despite being the junior branch were richer. Their rise to power was in the 1400's. Their main rival in the North were the Percies who had risen to power in the 1300's and were Earls and Dukes of Northumberland. They too were staunch Lancastrians and indeed had helped Henry IV to the throne before rebelling under Harry "Hotspur". They had reconciled to the House of Lancaster. It has been posited the WotR was a development of the Neville/Percy feud and the first battle at St. Albans was a Neville/Percy dispute NOT a battle for the crown. On the paternal side Richard's grandfather had been executed for his part in the Southampton Plot. The Beauforts on the other hand were a completely different family. Margaret lost 3 close relatives uncles, etc in the WotR. Indeed her uncle had a dispute with Richard Neville over land in Glamorgan, Wales. Always staunch Lancastrians the Beauforts were an ever-present on the Lancastrian side until ultimate victory. She was extremely religious, Saint John Fisher was one of her confessors, she helped re-found Christ's College Cambridge, founded St. John's College and has a Roman Catholic Theological College in Cambridge named after her as is Lady Margaret Hall in Oxford. She was a wealthy and important person from the get-go. She was betrothed(?) to William de la Pole, much sought after and married Edmund Tudor and had her son Henry when she was 13. The Tudors were half-brothers to Henry VI. Her next husband was a member of the Staffords, who had become the Dukes of Buckingham. He wasn't a Duke. Again like the Tudors they were staunch Lancastrians initially. One was sadly killed at Northampton (1460). The Yorkist star was waxing so her her husband changed sides and fought for Edward IV at Barnet. Sadly he received wounds he succumbed to. Her next husband was Thomas Stanley. The Stanleys had risen as mercenaries in the Hundred Years War and were gentry. They had been related to Richard III's mother Cecily and the Nevilles. The Stanleys joined the A List when Thomas married Margaret. The Stanleys as American's might know, instituted the oldest sporting trophy in North America the Stanley Cup as well as using their title as the Earls of Derby pronounced "Darby" for horse-racing. Richard III was extremely suspicious of Margaret but needed her husband as his Chamberlain. He was charged basically to keep his wife under house-arrest. Margaret in deep danger at the enemy court had actually carried the train of Anne Neville at her and Richard's coronation. She was an exceptional politician born before her time, about 500 years before her time! Another of her confessors was Christopher Urswick and she was a an associate of Cardinal John Morton, Archbishop of Canterbury and Lord Chancellor, a huge Lancastrian figure and man of great ability and was probably the second-most important figure after the king. He was to feature during her son's reign and was even kept on under Edward IV for his abilities despite being a Lancastrian. The Urswick link was key. Morton eventually went into exile in the Low Countries. Urswick visted him and Morton heard of Richard's plan to arrest Henry Tudor at the Brittany Court. The Duke of Brittany was ill but his second-in-command had done a deal with Richard To arrest Margaret's son. Urswick got word to Henry Tudor and he escaped to neighbouring France with hours to spare. If it hadn't been for these two gentlemen, Morton and Urswick, history could have been very different. It was Margaret's physician Lewis Caerleon that was the go-between between Margaret and Elizabeth Woodville when she was in Sanctuary. Margaret showed her modern skill by making sure her version of the WotR was the one people would know in history. To this end she asked Christopher Urswick to get Polydore Vergil the Italian to write the official English History basically her official history. On one trip to Richmond Palace which had fallen into disrepair after Richard II next to the old Sheen Palace, at Christmastide she, her son and daughter-in-law narrowly escaped with their lives after a fire. (It was subsequently rebuilt). She outlived her son and helped organise the coronation of her second grandson, her first, Arthur, sadly having passed-away. Her son had invented the "Tudor Rose" a combining of the Red and White Roses. The Houses of Parliament at Westminster has two particular emblems that are ubiquitous in its architecture the "Tudor Rose" and, guess what, The Beaufort Emblem the "Portcullis". In fact the official badge of the Houses is the "Portcullis". Margaret had the last word after all!
@@dianetheisen8664 She was, she was both, pious and a politician of the highest order, 500 years before her time. 1). She re-founded Christ's College Cambridge, Founded St. John's College, has the Margaret Beaufort Roman Theolgical College named after her, Lady Margaret College, Oxford named after her and many other institutions. One of her confessors was Saint John Fisher. Another was Chrstipher Urswick who helped save her son along with Cardinal John Morton Archishop of Canterbury and Lord Chancellor, when he was in danger of being captured in Brittany. Prelates like Morton, Bourchier, Kemp before him and many others often performed dual roles as later Cardinal Wolsey was to do. Often combining being the Archbishop of Canterbury or York with Lord Chancellor the second most political position after the monarch. Often sent as ambassadors to foreign courts and Rome. Margaret was just streets ahead politically. Her physician Lewis Caerleon was the conduit between her and Elizabeth Woodville when the latter was in Sanctuary. To make sure her version was the one posterity would relate to she asked Christopher Urswick to get Polydore Vergil to write the "English History" - as she saw it! From a Lancastrian point of view. Shakespeare used it. Her legacy lives on, her badge , the Beaufort "Portcullis" along with her son's "Tudor Rose" is everywhere in the Palace of Westminster and is in fact the official emblem of the Houses of Parliament. She would like that!
Interesting that Edward's paternal line claim to the throne went through Richard of Conigsberg who probably was the illegitimate son not of Edmunds of Langley but of John Holland Duke of Exeter, son of Joan the Fair Maid of Kent by her first husband Thomas Holland (she later married the Black Prince). This is substantiated by the fact that Richard III's DNA showed a break in the male line of descent from Edward IIII. There is a lot we don't know, but one thing that seems incontestable is that the Holland family were GOOD looking.
Henry Holland Duke of Exeter tends to get missed but was a significant player and is only mentioned as being married to Richard III's sister. The Hollands were of note. Henry was badly wounded at Barnet having led a Lancastrian wing and left for dead. He survived.
@@HistoryCalling It was rumored at the time Edmund's wife Isabella was having an affair with Holland, and apparently Edmund failed to leave anything to this son and otherwise behaved differently towards him than his other children. You've got to know he must have been very handsome as his mother Joan of Kent was a renowned beauty and his father Thomas Holland was a landless knight who nonetheless won Joan's hand in marriage -- a marriage she clung to despite her mother's efforts to force into another marriage with Earl of Salisbury heir. Hence her being known at one time as "the woman with two husbands".
@@English_Dawn Yeah, I keep noticing Hollands who married into the royal family! Margaret Beaufort & Richard, Duke of York, were each descended from a niece of John Holland, one of whom later married Henry V's brother Thomas, Duke of Clarence. And ofc Joan of Kent was Edward I's granddaughter.
@@themaltesepenny3504 I've not heard that rumour either, but wiki sees fit to mention it, & if Edmund left nothing to Richard, it's at least _possible_ to speculate about. Richard wasn't the heir- Edmund could just quietly leave him out of his will; no need to cause scandal repudiating him to avoid another man's son inheriting the dukedom... And Isabel of Castile was illegitimate herself, & had a crazy upbringing- her father Peter I was overthrown then murdered, etc etc
When some people comment that Queen Elizabeth the 2nd has the most scandalous and dramatic family issues to date, it makes me flinch. Um...no. Enter.... "The War of the Roses."
What do you make of Elizabeth and Edward's scandalous marriage? Let me know below.
In a time when marriage was used as a diplomatic tool, marrying for love was scandalous all on its own. The fact that it was the king making a love match set tongues to wagging at a furious pace. On top of this she was a widow with young children. A king would usually be wed to a young maiden. In a time when life expectancy was short the younger the bride the more years she had left to produce the necessary male heirs. "An heir and a spare" was deemed the bare minimum. It was said that the marriage of Elizabeth and Edward only came about “by Sorcerie and Wichecrafte, committed by the said Elizabeth, and her Moder Jaquett Duchess of Bedford”. Elizabeth's maternal side of the family, the Luxembourgs, claimed a mythical descent from the water deity Melusine. Rumors such as these were extremely serious. They could and often did result in innocent deaths. This shows just what an uproar their marriage caused. They seemed to truly love each other though and their marriage lasted around 19 years and produced several children. They were against the odds but endured. A love story for the ages.
You are SO WRONG on the wedding date of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville!!!!!!!!!!
Pregnancy for all humans is 9 months, on average.
If Elizabeth Woodville gave birth to Elizabeth of York on February 11, 1466.......go back 9 months aaaaaand TA-DA!!!!!!!!!!! MAY OF 1465!!!!!! So, perhaps THEY decided to get married on May Day because it was such a big deal in the time period they were married???
IF they were married "in late summer", as you have claimed, (which would be this time of year fyi!!! August!!!) So let's give August 1, 1465 as their marriage date to give you the best odds here!! (Btw......August 1st STILL ISN'T late summer....late summer would be like August 21 or another date later in August) The baby would have been born in May of 1466.....possibly a premature birth in April. But it seems Elizabeth had easy pregnancies that she had absolutely ZERO issues with carrying to full term, so I HIGHLY doubt Elizabeth would have given birth prematurely this time......plus, all the detractors of their marriage would have written and talked about her giving birth to a weak and sickly girl!!! NO DOUBTS about that!!! And if they married in August, she would have been giving birth at only 6 months pregnancy........see where I'm going here??? And seeing as Elizabeth of York was born healthy and strong.....I'm going with Elizabeth Woodville had a full pregnancy with Elizabeth of York!!!
Therefore there is absolutely no way Edward and Elizabeth were married any later than May of 1465. None. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Unless you are claiming that Elizabeth Woodville, a woman known for and written about in history for NOT giving her body to any man before being married to him, was having sex with Edward IV for 3 months BEFORE they were married???? That would be the ONLY way your date of an August wedding and a February birth could co-exist in reality................
Enjoyed this video
I find her story fascinating, and I appreciate your detail and clarity about facts vs supposition. As for their marriage, it reminds me of their grandson's marriage to Anne Boleyn, in that it seems both women refused to be seduced and then discarded as mistresses, and ended up as Queen of England.
Have you done anything on Jane Shore. His constant mistress for many years until his death.
She is one of my favorite historical people....with all of her losses SHE and Margaret Beaufort SOLVED the Wars by marrying their daughter and son. Very admirable ladies
Margaret will be up next in the series 😁
@@HistoryCalling can’t wait! I ❤️ all your videos
Yes but I think the thousands of people who died and suffered during the Tudor era might not be so enthusiastic. The two ladies SOLUTION was hatched by their own greed, not because they cared about the common people. Henry Tudor did have the option of simply staying where he was.
What a load of absolute tosh.. they were both avaricious harridans.. 😂😂🇬🇧
@@Ionabrodie69 agreed!
I thank you for using the family tree graphic to show the familial relationships as well as the colors to explain the intricacies of the York/Lancastrian dynasties. A point that has previously confused me with all the Edwards, johns, Henry's etc. Thank you!!
No problem. It helps me to keep them all straight in my head too.
Brilliant. Thanks for discussing Elizabeth Woodville. She is one of my favourite characters of the time. Such a strong and powerful woman but she suffered much too.
Thank you. Mine too 😄
"Women of the Wars of the Roses" - thank you for excellent content as per usual - no wonder Elizabeth chose religious retreat as an option in the end - she did not seek any of the excitement that happened around her - to survive the climax of the Wars of the Roses as she did must have felt miraculous - I'd take a vow after all that - ty HC - 🛸
Ahh, but did she choose it? Come back next week for a discussion of that. 🙂
@@HistoryCalling - I would have in her spot - looking forward to the next vid for sure then - 👽
I think she saw the opportunity and took advantage of it.
It was normal for high-born women to enter a religious institution. Catherine de Valois possibly had gone to Bermondsey Abbey (next to the Shard) before her.
The Beguinage is popular in continental Europe.
Cecily Neville chose to live in Berkhamstead in a major house and Margaret Beaufort at Collyweston and by all accounts relations were cordial.
@@HistoryCalling Have you been to Bermondsey Abbey in your visits?
Thank you for doing this series! I love watching period dramas, and watched all of The White Queen/The White Princess/The Spanish Queen/The Tudors etc. Its nice to hear someone speak on the facts versus the fiction. This kind of history really interests me, and you do such a beautiful job bringing it to life! ❤❤❤
Aren't they a fantastic, beautifully produced series? I love learning the genuine events from brilliant channels like this and look at the embellishments as historical fanfiction. 😄
The whole plot on Margaret Beaufort is horrendous and deeply inaccurate. The problem is that most people think they have some historical weight.
Whew! That family tree is a migraine waiting to happen! You did a great job in giving the particulars. Thank you for your hard work and brain busting effort. As always, you’re the best!
Can't disagree with you there. Those things take AGES to put together and my brain does indeed feel slightly bust at the end of it. :-(
@@HistoryCalling bless your heart!
so good! i never get tired of hearing her story. plus your excellent research always has new info for me. can’t wait for part 2! 🙌🏻
Thank you. Yes, things are only going to get more dramatic next week.
we love the drama!😂
Me TOO. Your not ALONE THERE.
She’s my favorite of all the ladies of the War of the Roses. Excellent content. Yes, it was scandalous. When Edward IV married Elizabeth Woodville he lost his friendship the Earl of Warwick. I think she had to adapt to being queen consort quickly, especially when her husband’s crown was still in dispute. It must’ve been difficult for her giving birth to her son Edward V while she was in refuge at Westminster Abby. She was intelligent and gutsy.
Thank you. Your work is brilliant as always. Have a great weekend. 🌞
Yes, I can't imagine the stress of having to give birth in sanctuary either. She had servants with her I think, but it must have been a seriously reduced household and a very different experience to when she had her other royal children.
Elizabeth Woodville and Edward IV are my 14th great-grandparents! So I loved this look at her life and the wonderful explanation of the Yorkist vs. Lancastrian families at the beginning.
They are my 17th Great Grandparents. Hello Cousin!
I have lots of people here in the comments of my videos who say they are descended from the Plantagenets and Tudors and I sometimes wonder how closely related they all are. I quite like the idea of distant cousins finding each other via my videos :-)
That's so amazing! Meanwhile, I can't find record of my last name anywhere in France. We just randomly show up in Quebec where the record states we came from France while fleeing the revolution. If I'm ever wealthy I'm hiring a good genealogist.
WOW!!!! that's incredible
So Queen Philippa of Hanault was one of your ancestors?
Wow, the absolute BEST EXPLANATION of how things came to be! I have never heard a better chronological/hierarchical discourse of the family tree down from Edward III! Thank you much for such wonderful content. To take the complexity of a topic such as this and to break down the immensity of a topic into more digestible/palatable portions or understandings that lay people such as I can begin to get a better grasp upon; that which has taken decades, perhaps centuries to reconstruct and display in such a way as to form a cohesive whole, is a standard and testament to your scholarly mastery of this subject. I wish there were more teachers and scholars of your caliber in our school systems. But maybe thats where TH-cam and Internet research come into their own.. For those who seek, shall be those who find....
Hi Jeffrey, thank you for such a lovely comment. I'm delighted that you found my approach to the family tree and the origins of the Wars of the Roses easy enough to digest, as I know it's complicated and something a lot of people struggle to wrap their heads around. I hope you'll come back for part 2 of Elizabeth's story :-)
@@HistoryCalling Absolutely! Wouldn't miss it for anything and I have my notifications turned on! I would also love to donate and support you thru your Patreon Account. I love the idea of being able to support my favorite TH-cam content creators and become more involved in such a wonderful community! I consider myself a life long learner, and to that "Keep on Learning" has become a motto I use frequently as it's congruency harmonizes perfectly with my outlook on life. Cheers to you and can't wait to see what's next!
Your use of the family trees helped immensely! The War of the Roses was not something we learned about in school in the US, so my previous knowledge came from shows/books like The White Queen. Now I have a much better understanding of what happened during this crazy era!
I'd actually never gone into it in detail myself until I started this channel, so I understand how you feel. So many people, all related and many with the same first name. It's a nightmare!
We spent maybe ten minutes on it in AP European History in high school. But that was way too short to have any idea how important this time was! I've done a bunch of research personally just for fun, though my specialty is really 17th century England.
She is my 16th Great-grandmother, and her son Thomas Grey 1st Marquess of Dorset is my 15th Great Grandfather his father was Sir John Grey my 16th Great Grandfather. I have been doing my family history for a while now and have been surprised at my family's amazing history. What I have learned is how connected all the nobility was to each other and how many royals and nobility I have in my own family. It sometimes very unreal and hard to wrap my head around but we all have to be related to someone and it is a part of who we are.
" ... Try to keep up." Ha! Indeed. Fantastic research and content, your voice and reading of the material is very pleasing and clear. Very well done!
The history of the Lancastrians is very interesting, not only because there were so many participants involved, but the crown seemed to change often. The heir and spares proved difficult. My favorite person during the Lancaster era was John of Gaunt’s third wife (first his mistress) Katherine Swynford. If I can remember correctly, her sister was Phillipa who married Geoffrey Chaucer , the author of the Canterberry Tales. I was so enthralled by Katherine’s life I named our daughter after her. I would love to know more.
The Plantangenets had too many heirs. Too many people raised to think they deserve power by birth within the same gens.
I am descended from John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford. It is amazing how connected so many members of the nobility were and the fights and intrigue that always seemed to follow them.
I love Elizabeth Woodville. She was a strong, intelligent lady but also a very loving Mom to her 12 kids... Her kids cherished her & she passed on her loving parenting style to her daughter, Elizabeth of York who was also known to be a loving, hands on, nurturing Mom to her kids (including Henry VIII)... I often wonder had Elizabeth Woodville & Elizabeth of York lived to see Henry VIII become an adult how might history have differed... Henry loved his Mom & would listen to her before listening to anyone else... But she died shortly before he turned 12...
I love history... And it's even better when it's ur own history.....last year I started to found out where we came from.... I was shocked.... I'm both York and Lancasterian......she was one of my great grandmother......my daughter loved the white queen.....so last year we watch the show....... I realize I knew the last names...... So I went to my books and open it up and it shock my daughter as well...... Thank you for teaching parts of my history.
It is wonderful when our children discover they were not 'hatched' but truly have a history. My son had to absorb the joint history of Scot highlander and an Croation rebel.
This is my favorite period in English history, so bring it on, I can never get enough, and thank you for all your hard work, you're in the top 3 of my favorite channels and I enjoy my Friday morning with you and a cup of coffee ☕😀, so thanks again and love you 😍
Thanks Nancy :-) You'll be happy to hear then that part 2 is even longer (though not by much).
@@HistoryCalling Woo Hoo, I can't wait!
Always enjoy your deep dives into primary sources. In this video, the inclusion of family trees was very helpful.
The family trees 🌲 are helpful but a little confusing. When reading historical novels, or non-fiction books📚, if a family tree 🌲 was included, I find that I constantly refer back to it throughout the book 📚. That's when they're very helpful.
Thank you. I really need them as much as anyone to help me to keep track, especially as so many people have the same first name.
That family tree sums up the complicated family relationships very well: no wonder I could never remember who was who!
I know, it is nightmarish trying to keep track of everyone.
So much information! You did a great job. I'll have to listen a few times to absorb it all.
A superbly researched production as always. I would have liked more content about Elizabeth's personal experiences. There may not be particulars available but perhaps some additional context is, on things like life in "sanctuary" and what immunity it granted. For example, did Elizabeth Woodville have to stay one the building or could she have access to the entire precincts of Westminster? If so, what were those like at the time compared to royal palaces, and was she sharing space with less rarefied "fugitives" like debtors? Did people in sanctuary need the permission of the particular religious order to stay in the church? How did they pay for their needs while confined? Could nobles in sanctuary engage in commerce and communication with the outside world?
I happen to find sanctuary particularly alien and fascinating. Other ideas: Her and her father's exact social position relative to their spouses (I'm thinking of the fabulous breakdown you gave for us novices on the rank of "Lady" in another video); what it meant to prepare the Tower for a siege, etc.
Elizabeth Woodville is too widely unknown, for the brilliance, ambition and drama that was her life. She was intelligent, astute and cunning and ranks up there with the best of England's queens. She also lost a lot and suffered, due to her ambition and the times in which she lived, but was ultimately victorious in her aims and lived to see the end of the wars of the roses. I hope you do a video on her rival and one time ally Margaret Beaufort.
Margaret's up next. I already have the books purchased to read up on her 😁
@@HistoryCalling She's a fascinating woman, look forward to your video :).
I guess it was the end. Unless you count the people Henry VII , VIII murdered because they had a much stronger claim then their own. Even Catherine of Aragon had a stronger claim. Lucky for her her nephew was who he was.
There's a series about her. It's fiction but that's how I first heard about her.
@@kevinc809- I have an ancestor murdered by Henry VIII for that reason.
👏👏Echoing Chris Banks: Wow! It's amazing how you present so much detail and bring these historical figures to life, HC. I'm not familiar with Elizabeth except through your videos so this is fresh and exciting. Can't wait to check out the Patreon extras! As always, thanks for completing my week on a high note. Be well. 🙏🏼
Thanks Stephen. Yes, more drama next week 🙂
I absolutely love the way you say the word tower. It is so very charming. I've never had history taught to me with such a sweet voice. I so look forward to your historical videos. Best wishes from Ohio, USA .
I agree. I love her videos and narration.
Thank you so much Jerry, especially as I usually get complaints for saying 'tar', to the point that I make myself say it like an American sometimes.
@@HistoryCallingDon't you dare! Americans can handle a different pronunciation of words. It broadens our minds. Just ignore the critics. They don't know what they're talking about.
You deserve waaaaaaay more subscribers than you have!! I love your channel ❤
Thanks. Another amazing video full of accurate detail.
Yes, their marriage was scandalous and certainly rocked the boat of the time.
However, look at their legacy. Grandparents to Henry VIII and Great Grandparents to Elizabeth I.
Can’t wait for the next episode.
Yes, it was certainly a game-changing marriage in all sorts of ways.
so excited, love learning about Elizabeth Woodville!
Thanks. I've been meaning to get to her for a while now.
As always, perfection has been met, Dr Ms History! ❤️
It always amuses me just now huge the medieval family trees are. I guess because now in the UK you’d have one or two children, three tops, in the ‘normal’ family, while back then you’d have to have an heir, and a few spares just because of how dangerous it was just living in some time periods!
Ah, you wouldn't be amused if you had to put it all together :-)
@@HistoryCalling well that'd be a waste of time! Why pay a lovely professional historian and then do it myself?! 😉
An heir, a few spares, and whichever other kids managed to survive infancy/early childhood because they didn't have birth control back then 😅
Though I've long been familiar with Elizabeth's story, your synopsis of her life at the beginning really brought it home in a concrete way. I've just never been able to warm to her as a person; I think it's all of her grasping relatives that ruin things for me. And although
grasping relatives are nothing new, the Woodvilles really went above and beyond.
With your mention of the Hastings document, perhaps that's another possibility of how Edward may have come to know about Elizabeth, given Hastings' good relationship with Edward as a loyal friend and supporter. And they even shared the same mistress -- Jane Shore -- though probably not at the same time:)
Yes, when you list everything she went through in one go, it is pretty breathtaking.
I really admire her resolve to maintain her position that she fought hard for and for surviving such a turbulent time period but I know what you mean, she's difficult to warm to, so is Margaret Beaufort I think, you can admire their grit and determination but looking at what their contemporaries had to say about them, they don't sound like nice people, both seemed to rub people the wrong way.
@@pk6810 Especially Beaufort & her turncoat husband Stanley.
@@susanmccormick6022 I can't really say anyone was worse than the other, they were all moving for their own gain. Some were just swept up in it all though and really didn't get a choice like all the York children, i feel heart sorry for them.
I’m so glad you explained who made up the Wars of the Roses. The families involved always confused me. I also love to hear her story! Such a great video. Thank you.
You're very welcome. I know I repeat myself a little bit when I do that stuff (from my other Wars of the Roses videos), but I always think it's worth a quick refresher, as it's so complex.
Your videos go fast because I get so interested in each story. :)
Haha, if only it seemed fast when I'm creating them :-)
Such a tangled story.........but utterly fascinating!!!!
It's been a long time desire of mine to visit the Tower of London.....soooooooo much history!!!
Perhaps next year 😀
Yes, definitely go if you can and spend the whole day there.
I really enjoyed this and can't wait for the next.
Thank you so much. Next week's video is even a little bit longer than this, so there's plenty to keep Elizabeth fans happy :-)
@@HistoryCalling Thank you. I'm looking forward to it
Yay! I was the 1000th thumbs up 👍.
This period of history is my favourite, and I'm a Yorkist through and through.... even though I'm only a quarter English! The York/Lancaster family tree was confusing but interesting in the way that many seemed to be jostling for power. Edward and Elizabeth's marriage was certainly very controversial, and with everything going on around her, Elizabeth to have survived the Wars of the Roses was incredibly lucky.
Thank you number 1000 (aka Katy) :-)
Katy P:White Rose For Ever!
Thanks
THANK YOU so much for your kind donation to the channel Margaret. I hope you liked hearing about Elizabeth :-)
Absolutely LOVE your content!!!! Best online by far 😊👌👍
Aww, thank you! :-)
These deep, focused videos have taught me more than any dry text I’ve poured over in my 25 year obsession with this drama. I only JUST learned & confirmed my husband is a direct descendant via Edmund of Langley and I’ve been walking on cloud 9 since. I know it’s dozens of generations ago but thrilling to have a connection. I knew the tree was complicated but once I dove in via my husband’s tree I was overwhelmed!!
Ohh, excellent family tree. I wish mine was that exciting.
THANK YOU for going through the lineage chart of how we got to the York and Lancaster factions! I knew some of it but it was very muddled. Appreciate how clearly you explained the relationshipd :)
As always I love your videos. They are so well researched and backed up by credible sources. If you ever write a book (or books) I will be in line to purchase! Very well done as always.
Thank you so much :-)
A video from you is the best birthday present!!!
Happy birthday :-)
@@HistoryCalling Thank you!
With the amount of times both earlier and later in the story that people had been dragged out of sanctuary to their deaths, I think that heading into Westminister was probably a bigger risk for Elizabeth and her children than most people realise. The Lancastrians chose to abide by the rules this time but they could have very easily chosen not to and as a result the Wars of the Roses could have been cut short as the York line could have been seriously reduced.
Fantastic content as always and I can't wait for the rest of the story next week. I am curious to see what actual documentary evidence there is for what Elizabeth Woodville was doing when in sanctuary for the second time there is.
The Lancastrians by and large were very pious - look at the number of foundations they provided money for, Eton College, King's College, re-foundation of Christ's College and St. John's College in Cambridge.
To leave Elizabeth in Sanctuary would fit into that.
However the Yorkists ignored Sanctuary at Tewkesbury Abbey which had to be re-dedicated afterwards.
They extricated the Duke of Somerset Margaret Beaufort's kinsman, sadly executing him the next day.
The Lancastrians did however after Wakefield and Ludford pillage the surrounding 'enemy' territory.
Yes, I think the limits of sanctuary are shown by the fact that it wasn't enough to protect little Richard of Shrewsbury, but that's for part 2 ...
Loving me a good old family tree 🙌 with highlights! 🙌🙌🙌
Thank you. They take ages to put together, but I couldn't do without them.
Great video! I'm so looking forward to part 2.
Thank you. It's actually slightly longer than this one. There's just so much to cover in Elizabeth's life!
I’m enjoying your videos of this era. I’ve read all of Phillipa Gregory’s books, and that’s how I became so interested in this era of British history. Thank you for sharing your dedication and research with us! Greetings from Kansas, USA
Just a word of warning, Gregory is more of a fiction writer than anything, and she’s noted for her poor scholarly standards and heavy bias towards Richard III to the point where she’s been known to use unreliable sources and straight up falsehoods to defend him.
I’m certain she’s an entertaining and skilled writer, but as a historian she’s generally seen as a hack.
Absoulutly superb HC, Amazing research and and as I have mentioned before your powers of deduction on certain aspects of dates and times etc are amazing sherlock would be proud, as always Thank you. 😊
Thank you. I hope you like part 2 as well :-)
@@HistoryCalling indeed I will, 😊👍.
I cannot wait to watch this but its still early here and am working. will have to wait :)
You can look forward to it for later though 😁
Thank you for your Due Diligence in researching with confidence, your love of the Role of women in History. Some folk think they were there just as Baby Making Machines [when one dies, replace ASAP].
I adored Henry & Elizabeth's amazing battle for Family, and their Calling. Both were Heroic, but the price they paid was very HIGH. Elizabeth: 2 sons murdered in Tower; Father & brothers executed; jailed beneath church [a crypt] to safeguard her children while having her husband banished or hunted, not to mention her Mother almost being burned at the stake for being an accused 'witch''.
Thoroughly enjoyed this. Looking forward to Part 2. Alison
Thanks Alison. Lots more scandal and death to come :-)
Thank you so much for uploading this video. It is helping me get through the pandemic!
📚🌹⚔️❤️👑🤍⚔️🌹📚
I adore these videos. Queen Elizabeth Woodville is one of my favorite historical figures of this particular time frame.
There is so much back and forth as well as round and round. One should wonder where one will land at the end of the tale. I would only say for sure it will not be Kansas. I mean wow. Fascinating content tonight as always. I am looking forward to the next part.
Thanks Lee. Yes, the Wars of the Roses are one of the most complicated parts of English royal history (in my opinion at least).
Thanks for this video! I just love her story of a " "love match" back in times that a true "love match" wasn't a reason to marry ! Marriages were for political reasons and for money...not love! I'd like to get more information about Elizabeth Woodvilless Mother, Jaquetta of Luxembourg... One question I have is was she from the country of Luxembourg? I'm curious because my grandparents on my Mothers side came to the U.S. in the early 1920's and knowing how small Luxembourg is I would just love to know! Plus she married for love as well ! Plus she was an amazing woman in her own right... Thanks so much again! A great story and a favorite of mine!💖😊
Loved this episode. So well narrated. An amazing insight to past history. So much to learn from this era. Thank you.
Thank you. Much more to come next week :-)
Your video's are always well researched and presented in a fashion that is easy to follow. And while i understand the need for advertising, the amount and length of the advertisements within, have caused me on several occasions to simply not bother finishing watching
According to ancestry, she is "wife of 1st cousin 17x removed" in my tree... via my mom's mother's side. I gotta say I see a resemblance. There are a lot of well known historical figures in my tree on my mom's side... and they all look a lot like me. For years I noticed i looked like certain old renaissance portraits of some people and thought it was a neat coincidence, only to find out recently its cuz I am actually related to them! It's sort of cool... and like makes me feel a bit better about my looks. I was bullied mercilessly in school for looking so "different" and fair complected. People called me ugly all the time. Well... I would have fit right in back then. xp
I remember reading a book a while back where the author went on for quite a bit about why her surname is Wydville not Woodville (I'm not even sure if I spelt it right, but it was a "Wyd" not "Wood"). I've always seen it mostly as Woodville, but that book has left an impression, but I can't remember the reasoning, so it's frustrating!! It was making me feel like one of those novels where they take three pages describing the grass😄
The manor house at Grafton was recorded, in 1206, as belonging to the WYVILLs. So the name was clearly evolving.
I mean werent names back then spelled differently all the time? Like how Catherine of Aragon favored various spellings of her name such as Kathryn or Katherine,etc? Or does that not apply to family names?
@@agatha6999 It doesn’t apply to surnames ( family names). Many names in England ‘evolved’ following the Norman conquest and subsequent attempts to integrate. There is interesting information about the Wyvills if you look up Grafton Regis. The manor house itself is significant because since Roman times it was a recognised settlement being just off Watling Street.
Exactly. English had only been the official language of the Court since 1399 under Henry IV. Chaucer had been recent and was one of the first to codify it into a universally accepted idiom. Many surnames of Norman-French ancestry were being anglicised. Various spellings Wdyvlll, Wodevile existed before Woodville (modern) became adopted.
By the time of the outbreak of the WotR English had only been the official language of record for 56 years and embryonic.
Yes, her name was spelt various ways during her lifetime and Wydville was certainly one of them. Both are valid. I find it's good to just choose one spelling though and stick with it for consistency's sake.
“Hard pushed to dream it up.”
Phillippa Gregory: watch me.
Historians: please don’t.
Great content look forward to part two
Cool video 😎.Thankyou.
You're very welcome 🙂
This episode was fantastic 👏 thank you! Your explanation of the lineage made it all so simple to understand, love your channel❤️👍
Thanks Stephanie. I'm always glad when the family trees and my explanations work for people, as they take a long time to put together and I know the Wars of the Roses can be very confusing.
💫Fantastic. Thank you ❣️
Glad you enjoyed it :-)
Good evening to history calling from Bea
Hi Bea. Welcome back 🙂
Very interesting! Looking forward to Part 2! 👍
Thank you. It's another long one (for me at least) at just over 30 minutes.
Another amazing and well-researched video!
Thanks Joshua. I hope you'll be back for part 2 :-)
Thank you for your new video 📽️🎥 and a nice weekend🌄
Thank you. You too 🙂
Thank you. Saw I should listen to this first. Appreciated.
Thank you so much for using the family tree, it makes this so much easier to understand and it became very clear who was who, and with all the Edward it was confusing, but your grateful ideas of doing the family tree, this help to make clear and also since I read books on her life, I was still a little confused with all those Edward's.
My Yorkie dog loves King Edward the 4th and Queen Elizabeth Woodville; He thinks they are his uncle and aunt.
Well he has excellent taste 🙂
Shout out to the royal yorkie from our schnauzers!
@@stephencarrillo5905 He is the crown prince.
Smart Anglophile puppy!!
🥰💖💕🌹🤣🤣🤣
Thanks great video look forward to hearing even more
Thanks Vernon. Another long one next week, at just over 30 minutes, but there was just so much to say about Elizabeth!
It's interesting how kings back then wanted to have as many sons as possible but it seems like the one of the origins of the Wars of the Roses was because there were many sons and as a result, their descendants all had claims to the throne. Primogeniture can't be much of a a barrier when you can just murder or overthrow each other if one wants the crown bad enough, it seems.
Perhaps thats why King Henry VII and VIII thought 1 son was sufficient? Because we dont see kings having as many sons as Edward III did till centuries later with George III I believe
Yes, Edward III was really TOO good at having sons, wasn't he? It caused so many later problems.
It’s as if a fan walked up to Harry Styles while he’s on a bike ride in the woods and ended up marrying him. It’s crazy.
WOW!!! This is an amazing story!!!
At 4:51, and I wanted to take the time to thank you profusely for so clearly illustrating WHY THE HELL all this happened and how twisted up it becomes without your use of some color and line drawings.
It is all so clear to me now.
Perhaps this is common academic practice, but it is new for me, and so you get the points.
My great grandmother many times back through her oldest son Thomas. Some of her descendants moved to America which led to me. I have always had a fascination w Elizabeth’s story and was amazed to find out I descend from her which I learned recently.
She is also my 16th Great-grandmother, and her son Thomas Grey 1st Marquess of Dorset is my 15th Great Grandfather. I have been doing my family history for a while now and have been surprised at my family's amazing history.
My overall impression of Elizabeth Woodville is that, if nothing else, she was probably very intelligent and almost certainly more so than Edward. I could absolutely see her deciding that getting his attention was probably the best chance she could have at solving her problems, even if marriage wasn't her initial goal. Not that there wasn't love or anything else involved later, but I find the entire situation more believable as one of mutual convenience and expedience than some great, dramatic love story. I also don't believe that she was some gasping damsel or anything like that, and that she was probably just as tough in her own way as Margaret of Anjou or any of the other royal women who get tarred with that brush. Thank you for another fantastic video!
I cannot wholly agree, maybe you are correct about Elizabeth but Edward IV did seem to have a genuine passion for her; his marriage to her was wholly inconvenient and led to all manner of problems that ultimately led to the murder of her sons by her brother in law. Had Edward conveniently married a foreign princess much trouble would have been avoided.
Hmm, I understand what you mean about it not being as romantic as some have made out (he cheated on her a lot for instance), but I think there was a fair amount of lust, on his side at least, at the start. I agree that he wasn't always the brightest spark in the fire though and that she probably wasn't particularly grasping either.
@@themaltesepenny3504 I can see what you mean. By marriage of convenience, I was more getting at the idea that he got to act on what he wanted to while she potentially gained security, but that might not be quite right for the situation.
@@HistoryCalling I tend to separate lust from romance, but maybe in these situations one is as good as the other. It sounds like I need to re-evaluate my impressions of her, too!
@@AxeMichi It was a common practice that nobles would often persuade reluctant women to sleep with them by contracting secret fake marriages; indeed Edward was said to have done this with a lady named Eleanor Butler, and this was one of the reasons why Richard III declared his nephews bastards.
Excellent as always x
Thank you so much 😊
I just noticed that one of the pictures says Burlingame Public Library. We have a city called Burlingame here in California!! I wonder if it came from there?
Probably yes, because place names in the USA have origins from England (New York, New Jersey, Birmingham, etc), Netherlands (New Amsterdam = old name of New York), German (Gettysburg, any place ending in - berg or - burg), Spanish/ Mexican (San Antonio, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, etc).
Perfect timing as I’m currently obsessed with the *slightly* romanticized telling of her life, STARZ classic (😏), The White Queen.
That's a great series‼️
I enjoyed watching that too. As long as you don't take it too literally, it's good, escapist TV.
@@HistoryCalling I know many people don't like Phillipa Gregory's books 📚, but I really enjoy them. And yes. I know they're novels but she really brings the characters to life.
@@HistoryCalling Definitely. Each time I find an historical fiction piece I like it always leads me to research the real history so it’s a win/win, despite the often less than accurate scripts… Okay, Max Irons, I watched for Max Irons, I can admit it. 😂
Wow she was a busy woman, great job as always!!!!
Indeed she was. She's gonna get even busier next week :-)
Another so interesting video. It’s not a part of history I know a great deal about so it was great to learn the facts. I think they should have been allowed to marry who they wished really . Also makes me feel like I would not have wanted to be Royalty in those days lol . Must have been very stressful
(Stressful) to say the least
No, I wouldn't have wanted to be married into the royal family either. I'd rather be poor and alive, than rich and dead!
One thing ppl forget is that Elizabeth Woodville lost THREE sons and a brother in the fallout over Richard IIIs seizure of the throne, not just the two princes in the tower. Kind of crazy that Richard would be so brazen as to kill his nephews but leave his five nieces alive. Especially when you factor in Yorkist claims to throne by female lines of descent.
AW:Anthony Woodville is someone I would like to know more about.He was very gifted.He & Vaughn & Richard Woodville were executed by Richard & like Hastings death,that does bother me even if I am Ricardian.Edward should've had Richard know his nephews better.They were almost strangers as the young Prince was brought up by Anthony & spent time at Ludlow,whilst Richard stayed in the North where he was & still is, dearly loved.
Richard had a son when he moved to seize the throne and even when his son died he had no reason to believe he couldn’t have more. His sons would have far more claim than any daughters of his brother. His nieces wouldn’t have been a threat to him from his perspective
This was a very interesting and very informative video. You have done a terrific job on your research. Have you ever or do you plan to do an episode on Henry Viii's sister Margaret? I'm descended from her but don't know much about her.
Hi Sharon, I do have an idea for something on Margaret, but I won't give it away here as I have problems with people stealing my video ideas :-(
Margaret Tudor is AMAZING!! I'm descended from her too, & she had a fascinating & pretty dramatic life, but she's yet another overshadowed Tudor- being the sister of Henry VIII & the grandmother of Mary, Queen of Scots will do that. HC will give us the BEST story of Margaret's life tho!
@@HistoryCalling HELL YEAH!! I'd LOVE it if you covered my favourite Tudor!!
So glad were back to the Roses.
Her in-laws the Greys of Groby were staunch Lancastrians and had been on Henry V's Agincourt campaign.
Pity the acquiescence over sanctuary accorded to Elizabeth in Westminster by the Lancastrians wasn't matched by the Yorkists at Tewkesbury but that's the Yorkists for you.
Now, there's an apples-and-oranges comparison:) Allowing a woman and her children to take sanctuary is quite different from fighting a pitched battle for the crown...
@@katjack2780 Tewkesbury Abbey had to be re-dedicated, besides the battle was over and the Duke of Somerset was executed the next day.
Edward had "form", he did the same thing with Owen Tudor the day after Mortimer's Cross and Lord Welles senior before Empingham not to mention executing his own brother George and restranging himself from his biggest supporter Warwick.
After Ludfotd Queen Margaret captured Duchess Cecily, her eldest daughter Margaret of York and Cecily' s two youngest sons George & Richard. By all accounts they were treated fairly and taken back to Cuventry. Contrast that to how Margaret was treated after Tewkesbury when she was paraded in a chariot when taken back to London after her son had been executed possibly in cold blood by Clarence' s men and possibly by Clarence himself and later had her husband executed at prayer possibly on the orders of Edward.
Thankfully the proper house won in the end.
@@English_Dawn I do not have an axe to grind (ho, ho) either way; I am a great admirer of Margaret of Anjou, for example. But atrocities were committed on both sides. I don't think Margaret's killing and displaying of Richard of York's head was exactly chivalrous.
That "the ;proper house won in the end" is certainly moot. It's just a turn of Dame Fortune's Wheel.
The only possible explanation for Edward’s marrying Elizabeth Is love. He gave up every diplomatic and dynastic advantage and stuck with her firmly. Maybe he saw her intelligence and really liked her as well as desired her. And he certainly needed one person in his family he could trust. Maybe he didn’t feel he could ever trust a bride arranged for him by another. We’re talking the Wars of the Roses, right? Who else could he really trust?
Yes, I think there was a strong attraction to her if nothing else. He cheated on her a lot, but given the number of children they had, they were obviously still spending a lot of time together.
@@HistoryCalling It wouldn't have been the last time a powerful man stuck with his intelligent wife (or she stuck with him), even while getting it on with other temporary flings. Ask a recent American presidential candidate! In fact, you could ask the very intelligent late wives of several US presidents! But Elizabeth certainly had more children than they did!
@@HistoryCalling Then again it was the 'done thing' for powerful men to have as many 'concubines' as they wished, so I suppose most of their wives simply accepted it - until Anne Boleyn.
@@annmoore6678 Jane Shore was more than a temporary fling.
@@Nightbird1914 Perhaps that would be a good topic for another HC post: what do we really know about Mistress Shore? How reliable is the information we have about her?
I have to wonder how Elizabeth Woodville reacted to an offer of marriage. None of the stories really suggested that was her goal and her motives in the stories are always either refusing to sleep with a man shes not married to or trying to find help for her financial issues due to her mother-in-law
Yes, it's disappointing not to have more sources that could give us a better insight into her thinking.
Elizabeth Woodville Was a fascinating woman❗ I look 👀forward to the next video 📹❗
Thanks Diane :-)
Elizabeth had big Edward wrapped around her finger 😁 married her as an unmarried widow who wouldn't give it up to the king even at dagger point and with all his advisors against it! Get it girl!! I know the dagger story might not be true but I love how it's Italians chronicling it, bringing that Italian passion and drama 😀
I'd love to believe it's true. It's a great story 🙂
@@HistoryCalling I always like to think there's no smoke without fire 😁
Although if she was deeply enough religious, she might have been frightened enough for her everlasting soul to refuse sex before marriage even if threatened with physical death.
The highlight on black was brilliant .. ( reminds me of a Star Trek control panel. ) . but it's still a mess to sort out. LOL. I think the dagger was probably used but I don't know who used it or why . lol .. another crazy mystery of the time. Elizabeth must have had beauty and brains.. and a captivating personality.. I suspect many women would love to bag a prince. She did endure a lot as many of the women did on both sides. Her story is interesting. Thanks.
I'd never thought of the Star Trek comparison before, but as a Trekkie, I'm very happy about it :-)
What a difficult life she had. Great position & then nothing. But they weee interesting times. Great video 😁
Thanks Carol. Yes and life is only going to get worse for her next week ...
I am struck that all of Elizabeths brothers and sisters survived well into adulthood!
Yes, the Woodvilles had an unusually high infant survival rate. It's just a pity some them were then claimed by the Wars of the Roses.
So excited 👌😊
Thank you 😊
26:56 What's happening with the moat? Is this current? I'm assuming you filmed it?
I did film it (in March 2022), but I'm afraid I don't know what they were doing with it.
@@HistoryCalling I just did a bit of a search, and I think it might be to do with filling the moat with wild flowers for the Queen's Jubilee. In March they'd have been preparing it.
Earl of Warwick: "Your Majesty, your queen comes with no political advantage and no dowry fit for your status as king. In fact, all she brings is a grasping, conniving family trying to headbutt their way into the upper ranks of the aristocracy through the making of advantageous marriages."
Edward IV: "Yeah...but she's so hot!"
Haha, it's funny cause it's absolutely what you could imagine the two of them saying 😄
@@HistoryCalling I remember reading Sharon Key Penman's "The Sunne in Splendour", and all I could think was, "Yeah, that was totally Edward's reasoning." He really was led by his loins.
Bingo! And many died because of it.
🤣🤣🤣
Warwick had no objections to a non-royal Englishwoman as queen when it was his own daughter though, lol
Interesting point to stop Elizabeth's story. Other than deciding it was marriage or nothing with Edward iv it's interesting how passive she is up to 1471. What we'll find in the second episode is that she becomes much more of a player. In becoming increasingly political she, like Margaret of Anjou, began to behave in a way outside the normal contemporary expectations of queenship. It didn't work out well for either of them! Maybe due to the weakness of Henry vi Margaret had more excuse? I certainly feel that Elizabeth was more aggressive in promoting the interests of her family than was wise. This was apparent in the destruction of Clarence, 1483 and her strange fall from grace under Henry vii. Still that's for next week and I'm looking forward to your take on all this!
I'd initially thought of stopping in 1483, but then my script was so long, I realised it wasn't feasible to make this video any longer.
I didn't realize that Elizabeth Woodville was also a descendant of John of Gaunt; thank you for teaching me something new with that (knotty) family tree.
Just when you think you’ve fled from the inbreeding when learning about history, it pounces at you again
No, no. Sorry, I maybe could have made that clearer. Her mother's 1st husband was John, Duke of Bedford and HE was a grandson of John of Gaunt.
@@HistoryCalling Thank you for clarifying. It was still an enjoyable watch, and that family tree really was well done.
@@HistoryCalling So Elizabeth wasn't a descendant of Queen Philippa of Hanault?
Oh yeah History calling do you think you will be doing a video on Marilyn Monroe, Andrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, JFK, Elvis Presley or Elizabeth Taylor or any of these people at some point in the future
You'll have to wait and see :-)
Really good vlog on Elizabeth Woodville. With a view to part 2, is there any connection between Margaret Beaufort and Richard 3rd? I don't know why, but I have always felt that MB is not as squeaky clean as some historians make out. Being an illegitimate granddaughter of Edward 3rd means her claim to the throne was always very tenuous and her son Henry 7th had very little entitlement. Really interested in how you handle part 2, so many thanks for this.
From what I heard of Margaret Beaufort, she was not all that saintly.
Not really Richard III was maternally a Neville whose power base was at Raby in the North of England. His maternal grandfather Ralph Neville had been with Henry V on the Agincourt Campaign and was enobled as the Earl of Westmorland (See Shakespeare's "Henry V"). Ralph's first family were staunch Lancastrians. His second family disputed heirlooms with the senior branch and despite being the junior branch were richer. Their rise to power was in the 1400's. Their main rival in the North were the Percies who had risen to power in the 1300's and were Earls and Dukes of Northumberland. They too were staunch Lancastrians and indeed had helped Henry IV to the throne before rebelling under Harry "Hotspur". They had reconciled to the House of Lancaster.
It has been posited the WotR was a development of the Neville/Percy feud and the first battle at St. Albans was a Neville/Percy dispute NOT a battle for the crown.
On the paternal side Richard's grandfather had been executed for his part in the Southampton Plot.
The Beauforts on the other hand were a completely different family. Margaret lost 3 close relatives uncles, etc in the WotR. Indeed her uncle had a dispute with Richard Neville over land in Glamorgan, Wales.
Always staunch Lancastrians the Beauforts were an ever-present on the Lancastrian side until ultimate victory.
She was extremely religious, Saint John Fisher was one of her confessors, she helped re-found Christ's College Cambridge, founded St. John's College and has a Roman Catholic Theological College in Cambridge named after her as is Lady Margaret Hall in Oxford.
She was a wealthy and important person from the get-go. She was betrothed(?) to William de la Pole, much sought after and married Edmund Tudor and had her son Henry when she was 13.
The Tudors were half-brothers to Henry VI.
Her next husband was a member of the Staffords, who had become the Dukes of Buckingham. He wasn't a Duke. Again like the Tudors they were staunch Lancastrians initially. One was sadly killed at Northampton (1460).
The Yorkist star was waxing so her her husband changed sides and fought for Edward IV at Barnet. Sadly he received wounds he succumbed to.
Her next husband was Thomas Stanley. The Stanleys had risen as mercenaries in the Hundred Years War and were gentry. They had been related to Richard III's mother Cecily and the Nevilles.
The Stanleys joined the A List when Thomas married Margaret. The Stanleys as American's might know, instituted the oldest sporting trophy in North America the Stanley Cup as well as using their title as the Earls of Derby pronounced "Darby" for horse-racing.
Richard III was extremely suspicious of Margaret but needed her husband as his Chamberlain. He was charged basically to keep his wife under house-arrest.
Margaret in deep danger at the enemy court had actually carried the train of Anne Neville at her and Richard's coronation.
She was an exceptional politician born before her time, about 500 years before her time!
Another of her confessors was Christopher Urswick and she was a an associate of Cardinal John Morton, Archbishop of Canterbury and Lord Chancellor, a huge Lancastrian figure and man of great ability and was probably the second-most important figure after the king.
He was to feature during her son's reign and was even kept on under Edward IV for his abilities despite being a Lancastrian. The Urswick link was key.
Morton eventually went into exile in the Low Countries. Urswick visted him and Morton heard of Richard's plan to arrest Henry Tudor at the Brittany Court. The Duke of Brittany was ill but his second-in-command had done a deal with Richard To arrest Margaret's son. Urswick got word to Henry Tudor and he escaped to neighbouring France with hours to spare. If it hadn't been for these two gentlemen, Morton and Urswick, history could have been very different.
It was Margaret's physician Lewis Caerleon that was the go-between between Margaret and Elizabeth Woodville when she was in Sanctuary.
Margaret showed her modern skill by making sure her version of the WotR was the one people would know in history. To this end she asked Christopher Urswick to get Polydore Vergil the Italian to write the official English History basically her official history.
On one trip to Richmond Palace which had fallen into disrepair after Richard II next to the old Sheen Palace, at Christmastide she, her son and daughter-in-law narrowly escaped with their lives after a fire. (It was subsequently rebuilt).
She outlived her son and helped organise the coronation of her second grandson, her first, Arthur, sadly having passed-away.
Her son had invented the "Tudor Rose" a combining of the Red and White Roses. The Houses of Parliament at Westminster has two particular emblems that are ubiquitous in its architecture the "Tudor Rose" and, guess what, The Beaufort Emblem the "Portcullis".
In fact the official badge of the Houses is the "Portcullis".
Margaret had the last word after all!
@@dianetheisen8664 She was, she was both, pious and a politician of the highest order, 500 years before her time.
1). She re-founded Christ's College Cambridge, Founded St. John's College, has the Margaret Beaufort Roman Theolgical College named after her, Lady Margaret College, Oxford named after her and many other institutions.
One of her confessors was Saint John Fisher.
Another was Chrstipher Urswick who helped save her son along with Cardinal John Morton Archishop of Canterbury and Lord Chancellor, when he was in danger of being captured in Brittany.
Prelates like Morton, Bourchier, Kemp before him and many others often performed dual roles as later Cardinal Wolsey was to do. Often combining being the Archbishop of Canterbury or York with Lord Chancellor the second most political position after the monarch. Often sent as ambassadors to foreign courts and Rome.
Margaret was just streets ahead politically. Her physician Lewis Caerleon was the conduit between her and Elizabeth Woodville when the latter was in Sanctuary.
To make sure her version was the one posterity would relate to she asked Christopher Urswick to get Polydore Vergil to write the "English History" - as she saw it! From a Lancastrian point of view. Shakespeare used it.
Her legacy lives on, her badge , the Beaufort "Portcullis" along with her son's "Tudor Rose" is everywhere in the Palace of Westminster and is in fact the official emblem of the Houses of Parliament.
She would like that!
@@English_Dawn Just finished reading your Prior comments -- thanks for the interesting info.
Ah, just wait for the videos on Margaret Beaufort (though she will be mentioned in part 2 of Elizabeth's biography as well).
Interesting that Edward's paternal line claim to the throne went through Richard of Conigsberg who probably was the illegitimate son not of Edmunds of Langley but of John Holland Duke of Exeter, son of Joan the Fair Maid of Kent by her first husband Thomas Holland (she later married the Black Prince). This is substantiated by the fact that Richard III's DNA showed a break in the male line of descent from Edward IIII. There is a lot we don't know, but one thing that seems incontestable is that the Holland family were GOOD looking.
Henry Holland Duke of Exeter tends to get missed but was a significant player and is only mentioned as being married to Richard III's sister. The Hollands were of note.
Henry was badly wounded at Barnet having led a Lancastrian wing and left for dead. He survived.
Ohh, interesting. I'm not familiar with that story, so I'll have to look into it.
@@HistoryCalling It was rumored at the time Edmund's wife Isabella was having an affair with Holland, and apparently Edmund failed to leave anything to this son and otherwise behaved differently towards him than his other children. You've got to know he must have been very handsome as his mother Joan of Kent was a renowned beauty and his father Thomas Holland was a landless knight who nonetheless won Joan's hand in marriage -- a marriage she clung to despite her mother's efforts to force into another marriage with Earl of Salisbury heir. Hence her being known at one time as "the woman with two husbands".
@@English_Dawn Yeah, I keep noticing Hollands who married into the royal family! Margaret Beaufort & Richard, Duke of York, were each descended from a niece of John Holland, one of whom later married Henry V's brother Thomas, Duke of Clarence. And ofc Joan of Kent was Edward I's granddaughter.
@@themaltesepenny3504 I've not heard that rumour either, but wiki sees fit to mention it, & if Edmund left nothing to Richard, it's at least _possible_ to speculate about. Richard wasn't the heir- Edmund could just quietly leave him out of his will; no need to cause scandal repudiating him to avoid another man's son inheriting the dukedom... And Isabel of Castile was illegitimate herself, & had a crazy upbringing- her father Peter I was overthrown then murdered, etc etc
When some people comment that Queen Elizabeth the 2nd has the most scandalous and dramatic family issues to date, it makes me flinch. Um...no. Enter.... "The War of the Roses."