Oooh, I never noticed before how Melisandre makes a point to see her victims before hand. great video! I have half a theory that the masks might protect them from users of magic candles, that they can't be found in dreams, but idk, half a thought really.
Lol what is an anti masker, the science is overwhelmingly that masks offer little to no protection against covid or any air born virus, there are countless studies and real life explains to prove this.
It's possible Melisandre is only maskless in Westeros. The mask would be another thing marking her as a weird foreigner and she isn't worried about other shadowbinders being there.
Super interesting. About Melisandre, I also think she doesn't need a mask because she is wearing some sort of glamour or whatever that actually alters her appearance. So even if someone saw her they wouldn't be able to harm her because her actual appearance is different from the way she looks.
very cool Kevin, first time I've heard the idea shadowbinders need to see people's faces to shadow-baby-kill them, or that this is the reason for mask-wearing. Its a good answer and would be satisfying if it turns out to be the case. Good thinking! Liked the Hardhome video too, though I think the answer is even worse than what you theorized, hahaha. Keep up the good work my man
A correction: we DO know how Ser Cortnay Penrose died, there was no implications. After Renly dies by the first shadow baby, Stannis demands for Storm’s End and Penrose refuses. Davos then smuggles Melisandre close enough to a gate at Storm’s End at night and had the shadow baby right in front of his eyes. After Penrose’s death, his lieutenant opened the gate for Stannis.
This is a great theory, but being a shadow binder doesn’t make you invincible or immortal. Quaith has a name, Melisandra has a name, and if we know one thing from jaquen Hagar is that all they need is a name and that person is dead.
Hagar was a more typical kinetic assassin, despite face changing, he has to make phisical contact with the target. And one assumes he can just ask around town with a name to find the target and change his face after. The shadow baby can't ask around obv, so Melly has to get Intel ahead of the hit
I believe the hide because of being disfigured from being so close to the shadow. Also I think Quaith has old eyes 👀 hiding the color under the foggy eye.
Because she wears her mask to hide from others doesn’t mean she can’t also be glammored to hide her identity. I don’t think she is hiding but one situation doesn’t subtract from another.
Radioactive dust? It would explain why children and animals die while not even plants can survive in places made out of the greasy black stone. Maybe the stone is radioactive?
Maybe part of being a shadowbinder involves heavily mutilating your own face? That sounds like a very GRRM thing. Mel clearly glamours herself and Quaith’s mask shows absolutely nothing but her eyes. It would also represent the whole ‘giving up your identity for the faith’ thing that pretty much every religion in ASOIAF does, making yourself literally unrecognisable as yourself and yet immediately recognisable as a shadowbinder makes it nearly impossible to continue your old life and hide your faith, especially with women who’s beauty is their main breadwinner, a mutilated woman will never be accepted by society
One thing I want to make a note about is that time travel is only achieved by Bran. For whatever reason he is the most powerful character magically in that regard.
Bloodraven mentions he has time traveled before but he was unable to change anything the saw the past. It seems Bran is more powerful because he can do things to change events in past. The meta reason for this is that Bran is a major POV protagonist. He has exceptional powers to set him apart from other characters with similar powers
@@KevinPendragon oh yeah that's what I kind of meant. In my mind time travel meant interacting. Just viewing what happened is something different in my head.
R'hllor. I think at some point she learned some shadowbinding arts in Asshai like Mirri did but she never became an expert (like Quaithe). Mirri knew shadowbinding spells but she still was dedicated to the Great Shepherd. Mel is the same to R'hllor.
@@KevinPendragon Its possible that R'hllorists in Asshai study shadowbinding as well as the fire-arts that seem common to red priests generally. We know very little about the internal organization of their faith. High Priest Benerro can shoot fire from his fingertips and write fiery glyphs in the air, but is this the reason he is high priest, or because he can read flames very well, or b/c he is a political schmoozer? My point is, why does Qarth not have a section in the worldbook? I DEMAND ANSWERS!
I would fully trust Quaithe. There’s just something unique about her that makes me think that Dany would do well to trust her. Better for her to trust a masked foreign stranger than those around her.
@@joonaskekoni2867 ask any tarot reader. Divination includes seeing and interpreting. If she is declared the best at divination in her order then it should include both. Logically, how to do prove to be good at seeing when you can't relay what you see to the higher priests to ascertain that you're good at divining?
@@endor8witch You're applying our world standards to ASOIF, you're asking a deeply religious, medieval society to use logic. Red Priest are not Tarot Readers, Red Priest actually have power for a start.
@@theeverchosen1504 it works the same way, no matter what medium one uses for devination. What you regard as the source of what you see, drug induced, imagined, "godgiven", Tarot, flame gazeing, bone throwing, it really does not matter, the machination stays the same and the comparison to tarot makes perfectly sense. You need to see and than to interpret, thats how it is practitioned. On how valid it is, if there is magic, what is the source of what you see, thats a whole other discussion, does not change the fact, that it still works the same way.
I think the shadow binder that helped Dany was the gay pirate chick(who stole 3 dragon eggs to buy ships) that hooked up with the targ princess in the past lore,,shadow binders can live along time so that would explain the time gap
Nope, one of the better theories is that she is Elissa Farman, who stole three dragon eggs from Dragonstone and sold them in Bravos to build her ship the "Sun Chaser". In 56 AC, Elissa changed her name to Lady Alys Westhill and sailed the Sun Chaser around southern Westeros and west into the sunset sea to try and find the lands far to the west of Westeros. She never returned. However, a ship that looked very much like Elissa's Sun Chaser was seen moored in Asshai-by-the-Shadow by Corlys Velaryon when he sailed his ship "Sea Snake" east into the summer sea and southeast of Qarth into the Jade sea, so apparently she made it all the way across the Sunset Sea to land at Asshai. Some believe the three dragon eggs Elissa sold eventually became the ones Daenerys Targaryan was given when she married Kahl Drogo.
@David Knisely Idk about Quathe being Elisaa Farman but I do think wholeheartedly the 3 dragon eggs Elissa stole are the 3 Danys hatched.There evidence is all there.What sold it to me was what is written in FIRE&BLOOD .I dont know the quote word for word, buts it inplied that the eggs will probably end up with "Cheesemonger or Spice trader and who the only person George ever refers to as a "Cheesemonger"??? ILLIRYO MOPATIS King of the Cheesemongers😂and how did Daenerys acquire her eggs? As a bloody Wedding present from From ILLIRYO MOPATIS nee (BLACKFYRE). Ive never heard of this Elissa/Quaitge Theory so thank you im gonna go check this out now and fall into a rabbit hole no doubt🤷♂️😂👍🏻
You're wrong about the time travel theory. As is prevalent in the weirwood net and other works of George, he only plays with mental time travel instead of physical, because it doesn't introduce the same problems, like the grandfather paradox.
@@umwha the masks hide their identity and therefore protect them from magic that requires to know the face, for example shadowbaby Melisandre uses. The truth that Ashara is Daenerys mom means Rhaella isn't therefore Daenerys is a bastard and not the rightful heir at all. Daenerys will kill anyone that rebukes her claim like most any monarch.
@@umwha stable? Declaring a monarch a bastard is treason, the penalty is death. If Daenerys believed her and stepped down, she would be penniless in a foreign land. Selmy would likely execute her for being a pretender,
@@umwha cont.. her dragons would likely be stolen by the strongest royalty, likely she would be made someone's slave, and sold to the highest bidder; so no don't think Daenerys would believe or let stand any suggestion of being a bastard. Best outcome, people are too afraid of offending the Dothraki to not return her to live with the former wives. As for the secrecy? Assassins.
If she's anyone we know already, it's Shierra. "Wet and shiny" is an odd way to describe eyes without noting their colour. It's probably a glamour that blurs the eye colour, maybe making them appear black. If _Ashara_ is secretly anyone in the story, it's Septa Lemore, also potentially glamoured. There's just too much thematic meaning with Bloodraven still alive and pulling magical strings with Bran and Jon, and Shierra still alive, pulling strings with Dany, for Quiathe to be anyone else we've heard of.
@@made-line7627 if Septa Lemore was hiding her identity wouldn't she glamour her stretch marks, furthermore if she was a royal involved in a conspiracy wouldn't Tyrion suspect? Septa Lemore is Wylla, the tanner's wife/daughter, or Elia's wet nurse sent with Aegon since he was a baby. Tyrion can't think of her name, since it wouldn't have been recorded in anything he's read. Ashara as Daenerys mother is the only one, really, with the motive to protect Daenerys, well a good one anyways. Shiera is Tyrion's ancestor and would be sending messages to him, not pointing out to Daenerys that Aegon is king and killing her nephew is the only path to the throne.
I alway liked the older lore, nowa days he can just survive ANYTHING, its so boring! There were times when he almost died throwing down with sabretooth
Thanks to everyone who watched and helped this get over 1,000 views. It's the first video on my channel to reach that milestone.
You reached it because your content is awesome. Just watched your Varys video, great stuff man 👍👍
Oooh, I never noticed before how Melisandre makes a point to see her victims before hand. great video!
I have half a theory that the masks might protect them from users of magic candles, that they can't be found in dreams, but idk, half a thought really.
So it's like Magneto's helmet. Knowing grrms it's probably true then.
“Melisandre is an antimasker who expects her faith to protect her from harm” ok you got my sub and like
It is just so so fitting ^^
Lol what is an anti masker, the science is overwhelmingly that masks offer little to no protection against covid or any air born virus, there are countless studies and real life explains to prove this.
I LoL'd so hard when he said this
@@cbob213 it was glorious ^^
@@MrDaveJustice Mask are for preventing you to spread it. Not for your own protection.
It's possible Melisandre is only maskless in Westeros. The mask would be another thing marking her as a weird foreigner and she isn't worried about other shadowbinders being there.
Super interesting. About Melisandre, I also think she doesn't need a mask because she is wearing some sort of glamour or whatever that actually alters her appearance. So even if someone saw her they wouldn't be able to harm her because her actual appearance is different from the way she looks.
“Shadow Shanked” 😂👏🏼
Poor Renly wasn't wearing a mask and got caught slacking 😂
very cool Kevin, first time I've heard the idea shadowbinders need to see people's faces to shadow-baby-kill them, or that this is the reason for mask-wearing. Its a good answer and would be satisfying if it turns out to be the case. Good thinking! Liked the Hardhome video too, though I think the answer is even worse than what you theorized, hahaha. Keep up the good work my man
A correction: we DO know how Ser Cortnay Penrose died, there was no implications. After Renly dies by the first shadow baby, Stannis demands for Storm’s End and Penrose refuses. Davos then smuggles Melisandre close enough to a gate at Storm’s End at night and had the shadow baby right in front of his eyes. After Penrose’s death, his lieutenant opened the gate for Stannis.
This is a great theory, but being a shadow binder doesn’t make you invincible or immortal. Quaith has a name, Melisandra has a name, and if we know one thing from jaquen Hagar is that all they need is a name and that person is dead.
Melissandre remembers in the books how she was called melody. Quaith is prob a name for the binders, just like RL witches have witches names.
Hagar was a more typical kinetic assassin, despite face changing, he has to make phisical contact with the target. And one assumes he can just ask around town with a name to find the target and change his face after. The shadow baby can't ask around obv, so Melly has to get Intel ahead of the hit
You have to have a REAL name…
I believe the hide because of being disfigured from being so close to the shadow. Also I think Quaith has old eyes 👀 hiding the color under the foggy eye.
Because she wears her mask to hide from others doesn’t mean she can’t also be glammored to hide her identity. I don’t think she is hiding but one situation doesn’t subtract from another.
yeah, but that would be needlessly complicated, why do both if one would surfice?
@@SingingSealRiana it’s ASOIAF most things are needlessly complicated.
Nice video. I always enjoy chancing on cool ASOIAF stuff
Shedding light on important themes of the books, thanks!
Bro. You're actually funny. Subbed.
I never considered it, but it makes perfect sense.
Radioactive dust? It would explain why children and animals die while not even plants can survive in places made out of the greasy black stone. Maybe the stone is radioactive?
Kevin Pendragon is my fave ASOIAF theorist right up there with Lucifer means Lightbringer. You guys are so intellectual and intelligent 🧠🤓 🪄
First ASoIaF TH-camr to make me laugh. Subbed.
THIS IS SO GOOOOOOD
You deserve so many more subscribers than you have, but I only have one account. Seriously: nice work, man.
I like this theory
i figured it was a reference to the "King in the Yellow" in Cthulhu mythos.
Nice Video
Maybe part of being a shadowbinder involves heavily mutilating your own face? That sounds like a very GRRM thing. Mel clearly glamours herself and Quaith’s mask shows absolutely nothing but her eyes. It would also represent the whole ‘giving up your identity for the faith’ thing that pretty much every religion in ASOIAF does, making yourself literally unrecognisable as yourself and yet immediately recognisable as a shadowbinder makes it nearly impossible to continue your old life and hide your faith, especially with women who’s beauty is their main breadwinner, a mutilated woman will never be accepted by society
One thing I want to make a note about is that time travel is only achieved by Bran. For whatever reason he is the most powerful character magically in that regard.
Bloodraven mentions he has time traveled before but he was unable to change anything the saw the past. It seems Bran is more powerful because he can do things to change events in past. The meta reason for this is that Bran is a major POV protagonist. He has exceptional powers to set him apart from other characters with similar powers
@@KevinPendragon oh yeah that's what I kind of meant. In my mind time travel meant interacting. Just viewing what happened is something different in my head.
Melisandre could probably be Shiera Seastar, glamoured. Might explain her presence at the Wall.
But her mask is her necklace in a way ? We don't see her own face
Do you think Mel's order are the Shadowbinders, or thr priesthood of R'hllor?
R'hllor. I think at some point she learned some shadowbinding arts in Asshai like Mirri did but she never became an expert (like Quaithe). Mirri knew shadowbinding spells but she still was dedicated to the Great Shepherd. Mel is the same to R'hllor.
@@KevinPendragon Its possible that R'hllorists in Asshai study shadowbinding as well as the fire-arts that seem common to red priests generally. We know very little about the internal organization of their faith. High Priest Benerro can shoot fire from his fingertips and write fiery glyphs in the air, but is this the reason he is high priest, or because he can read flames very well, or b/c he is a political schmoozer? My point is, why does Qarth not have a section in the worldbook? I DEMAND ANSWERS!
excellent video
Thank you very much!
That is a crazy, to contemplate someone from the past is actively manipulating the present (future)
Good one
I would fully trust Quaithe. There’s just something unique about her that makes me think that Dany would do well to trust her. Better for her to trust a masked foreign stranger than those around her.
she's the best at divination in her order? damn how bad was her order....
She is perfect in seeing. The understanding side however...
Professor Trelawney vibes
@@joonaskekoni2867 ask any tarot reader. Divination includes seeing and interpreting. If she is declared the best at divination in her order then it should include both. Logically, how to do prove to be good at seeing when you can't relay what you see to the higher priests to ascertain that you're good at divining?
@@endor8witch You're applying our world standards to ASOIF, you're asking a deeply religious, medieval society to use logic. Red Priest are not Tarot Readers, Red Priest actually have power for a start.
@@theeverchosen1504 it works the same way, no matter what medium one uses for devination. What you regard as the source of what you see, drug induced, imagined, "godgiven", Tarot, flame gazeing, bone throwing, it really does not matter, the machination stays the same and the comparison to tarot makes perfectly sense. You need to see and than to interpret, thats how it is practitioned. On how valid it is, if there is magic, what is the source of what you see, thats a whole other discussion, does not change the fact, that it still works the same way.
I like your idea about personal protection. But could they not wear glamours like Mel does? That would obscure the real faces as well
I think the shadow binder that helped Dany was the gay pirate chick(who stole 3 dragon eggs to buy ships) that hooked up with the targ princess in the past lore,,shadow binders can live along time so that would explain the time gap
Excelent theory, really god point's you have....
First Shadow binder is not Melisandre, its Mirri Maz Dur.
The idea that Quiath might be Daenerys from the future gave me sudden chills. This is an awesome theory.
Hi Kevin did you hear about Dunk and egg it's on baby
Welcome back to the channel. We're getting Dunk and Egg and Bobby B's rebellion! Gonna try to get a video out about the news for tomorrow
@@KevinPendragon ok ser Kevin
@@mhammedakrot3600 aha, I'm Ser Kevin now? Awesome. Gotta make sure I stay away from Lord Varys 😂
@@KevinPendragon lol you're a Lord
Nope, one of the better theories is that she is Elissa Farman, who stole three dragon eggs from Dragonstone and sold them in Bravos to build her ship the "Sun Chaser". In 56 AC, Elissa changed her name to Lady Alys Westhill and sailed the Sun Chaser around southern Westeros and west into the sunset sea to try and find the lands far to the west of Westeros. She never returned. However, a ship that looked very much like Elissa's Sun Chaser was seen moored in Asshai-by-the-Shadow by Corlys Velaryon when he sailed his ship "Sea Snake" east into the summer sea and southeast of Qarth into the Jade sea, so apparently she made it all the way across the Sunset Sea to land at Asshai. Some believe the three dragon eggs Elissa sold eventually became the ones Daenerys Targaryan was given when she married Kahl Drogo.
@David Knisely Idk about Quathe being Elisaa Farman but I do think wholeheartedly the 3 dragon eggs Elissa stole are the 3 Danys hatched.There evidence is all there.What sold it to me was what is written in FIRE&BLOOD .I dont know the quote word for word, buts it inplied that the eggs will probably end up with "Cheesemonger or Spice trader and who the only person George ever refers to as a "Cheesemonger"??? ILLIRYO MOPATIS King of the Cheesemongers😂and how did Daenerys acquire her eggs? As a bloody Wedding present from From ILLIRYO MOPATIS nee (BLACKFYRE).
Ive never heard of this Elissa/Quaitge Theory so thank you im gonna go check this out now and fall into a rabbit hole no doubt🤷♂️😂👍🏻
“Melisandre is and anti-masker” lmao
You're wrong about the time travel theory. As is prevalent in the weirwood net and other works of George, he only plays with mental time travel instead of physical, because it doesn't introduce the same problems, like the grandfather paradox.
To hide from the greenseers
It is the black oily stone.....it is mutagenic.....Mellisandre is glamoured and does not need a mask.
Come on guys we know Quaithe is ??? ITS BLOODRAVEN 🤷♂️When in doubt Pass it to BLOODRAVEN 😂
3/4 of the video is about theories. Shadow binders wear mask for hide themselves from one another,10 minutes saved.
8:53 😂
Always thought they wore them because it made them look more edgy
Quathe could be Alleras in Oldtown using Marwins glass candle. That's why maester Aemon says the Sphinx is the riddle not the riddler
why though?
Melisandre wears a mask of sorts....STOP! glammer time!
I love a good bad joke 😂
Quaithe is Daenerys mom Ashara.
@@umwha the masks hide their identity and therefore protect them from magic that requires to know the face, for example shadowbaby Melisandre uses. The truth that Ashara is Daenerys mom means Rhaella isn't therefore Daenerys is a bastard and not the rightful heir at all. Daenerys will kill anyone that rebukes her claim like most any monarch.
@@umwha stable? Declaring a monarch a bastard is treason, the penalty is death. If Daenerys believed her and stepped down, she would be penniless in a foreign land. Selmy would likely execute her for being a pretender,
@@umwha cont.. her dragons would likely be stolen by the strongest royalty, likely she would be made someone's slave, and sold to the highest bidder; so no don't think Daenerys would believe or let stand any suggestion of being a bastard. Best outcome, people are too afraid of offending the Dothraki to not return her to live with the former wives.
As for the secrecy? Assassins.
If she's anyone we know already, it's Shierra. "Wet and shiny" is an odd way to describe eyes without noting their colour. It's probably a glamour that blurs the eye colour, maybe making them appear black. If _Ashara_ is secretly anyone in the story, it's Septa Lemore, also potentially glamoured. There's just too much thematic meaning with Bloodraven still alive and pulling magical strings with Bran and Jon, and Shierra still alive, pulling strings with Dany, for Quiathe to be anyone else we've heard of.
@@made-line7627 if Septa Lemore was hiding her identity wouldn't she glamour her stretch marks, furthermore if she was a royal involved in a conspiracy wouldn't Tyrion suspect? Septa Lemore is Wylla, the tanner's wife/daughter, or Elia's wet nurse sent with Aegon since he was a baby. Tyrion can't think of her name, since it wouldn't have been recorded in anything he's read.
Ashara as Daenerys mother is the only one, really, with the motive to protect Daenerys, well a good one anyways. Shiera is Tyrion's ancestor and would be sending messages to him, not pointing out to Daenerys that Aegon is king and killing her nephew is the only path to the throne.
I alway liked the older lore, nowa days he can just survive ANYTHING, its so boring! There were times when he almost died throwing down with sabretooth
sounds plausible
Lol. Melisandra is an anti-masker.
I’m in anti-masker also. 😂
TDS