The WORST Fighters Pass 2 character...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2023
- Fighters Pass 2 is broken. This probably isn't news to you. But did they forget something with Sora? Fighters Pass 2 users won 71 tournaments as tracked by UltRank between 2021 and 2022. Sora? He won 1. That was by Zackray, and he's a Pit main now. This is what we paid $5.99 for?
Since then, Sora's biggest moment at a premier-level tournament was a meme: The Confetti Incident at Smash Con, where Maister did the unthinkable and won a single game with Sora in Grand Finals. At Battle of BC 5, though, that all changed. Today, we'll take you through the unthinkable losers run by Fighters Pass 2's forgotten member, and the player we all should have known would take him to these heights.
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#turndownforwalt #tdfw #SuperSmashBrosMelee #SuperSmashMelee #SSBM - เกม
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Sephiroth and Sora are the two Fighters Pass Vol. 2 characters they've actually balanced
The Banjo and Kazooie in the mid:
@@technorave555 Banjo is fighters pass 1
I can't read
And two of three (four? Hero's alright but very swingy) DLC overall, joining Byleth, who get to be merely Pretty Solid. The rest are either dogwater (Plant, Banjo) or cracked (...everyone else).
No they didn’t m
You know, I'm ok with a character not being broken. If only the rest had taken that route.
You know something, you're an okay person. You have my respect.
@@Saferoom45 Real knows Real
Kameme also has other massive runs with Sora at both Japanese and NA majors, many of which to grand finals, including the tournament where he put Sora back on the map, Glitch Regen
If it takes Melee Sheik, Pikachu, and Yoshi 20 years to win majors, the meta for the last character added in a game with nearly 4x the cast is gonna change at some point. There’s gonna be a Sora boost in the future, I can feel it
Sheik won plenty of majors. Having a secondary doesn't negate Sheik's performance.
@@petrie911 it literally does though if every Shiek main auto switched for certain matchups
@@petrie911 mew2king won some tournaments while going pichu in pools. Does that mean pichu won a major?
You're presuming that Ultimate will still be at all relevant to competitive Smash that far after release. It is far more likely for Ultimate to go the way of Brawl and Smash 4 than for it to remain big like Melee. Melee remained relevant because Brawl was far more unbalanced and less fun at the top level, and therefore one of the most diehard competitive scenes in gaming formed during the Brawl era out of a desire to keep their game alive, regardless of what new entry in the series came out.
@@samt3412idk man seems like few people still enjoy ultimate with how much content compared to small over used cast of characters
I think you skipped out why Zackray is a Pit main now. Originally after Sora, he became a Joker main, he dropped Joker after his encounter with Kameme's Sora (Void still has a video of that match on his channel). After that tournament, he found a new main in Pit around kagarabi #9 because he felt Joker was inconsistent as well (Zackray talked about that in one of his videos too).
Kameme has actually stated more then once that he believes Sora is top 20. That's something he didn't really say in terms for Mega-Man. His MU chart (for Sora) also backs that up a bit. At the end of the day, we're pushing high-expectations on a year old DLC to be Kazuya/Min-Min when he shouldn't have to be (because funny fact...Steve and even Joker were considered a mid-tiers at launch). Let Sora be honestly awesome. Peach, Fox, Roy and Pikachu prove you don't need insane powers to be a top-tier.
The only annoying thing about Sora in this game is how much the commentators complain when he's on screen. We get it, you don't like KH, deal with it and don't ruin it for those who do
Agreed
And his voice.
FIYAAA
THUNDA
FWEEEEEEZE
It's more about how boring his moveset is and how bad his sounds are.
@@litten4854 oh lord😅
@memekeeper-gaming3552 He only has that reputation from top players like Maister and Dabuz playing him that way because they don't actually use the character. But regardless, biased commentary is biased commentary.
Sora's my main because I love Kingdom Hearts and he feels fun to play. I thought I'd get less hate because he's just a floaty sworide, but no, I somehow have recieved more hate for playing him than I ever did playing Sonic in multiple games.
Kameme if there was money involved in Japan:
*Insert Leo's PGR 2019's pic*
that kill chart was some of the most baller data visualization I've seen in awhile and felt like the sort of things you noticed then built out then thought "how can i make a video with this as the cornerstone of it"
Honestly, I think it would be really cool to have a full series on “mid tier menaces”, the top players globally that play mainly mid tiers. Stuff like Dabuz, Skyjay, Bassmage, Hero, Capitancito, or Big D, all bracket threats on average characters nobody else really touches
This video is so good. The script and voice over and edits remind me of old PGstats video. Im sure if you keep up this quality that you will become wildly successful
Sora and Sephiroth are the only well designed FP2 characters. It’s a shame the others are actual cancer.
it's sad that sora doesn't get as much rep as the other fp2 characters because i really like his design and he has some pretty cool combos (NAIR LOOPS)
This is such a cool concept for content, one that i Absolutely loved, breaking down why a player clicks with a character
Ult content??? always a surprise to see but a welcome one:) thanks walt
"mkleo dropped his controller"
Sounds like Johns to me
10:37 Are we just not gonna acknowledge the guy with the sign
False, the worst one is Sephiroth (and I know he's really good too.) Everyone who says Sora is mid tier is lying to themselves
...
Sora is def the worst, not by a massive margin tho. Seph is pretty good but not a top tier. I think Sora is good in a vacuum but he's a very impractical tournament character for most. Two of his notable users are both specialised in their approach. Obviously Kameme is known for being someone who plays megaman who is also hard at a high level and shiek, another hard character. Zacjray is iust known to have a unique gameplan about data and adaptation abive character choice. In truth Zackray could play anyone. it's probably why he switches mains all the time
Sora is broken. That's it.
Nah sephiroth is better. Though who cares since the second pass fighters are all broken in their own right.
@@illford Literally just hold shield and you’ll beat Sephiroth. Sora is broken
With what is said regarding his decision making and execution, imagine if the man was playing Kazuya
Technically speaking, Sora is Kazuya with a sword
sora is leagues ahead of sephiroth idk bout this one
I think he was just saying the results are more in favor of Sephiroth overall. I think Sora is a better character as well but when a top 5 player is playing Sephiroth sometimes the results are going to be a little skewed.
@@ItzMeNido i agree with your points! but i think with kameme's recent uptick in results as well as the lack of any solo sephiroth success at any level (see ned dropping seph, only ken and tweek really repping the character as secondaries) don't make a super convincing argument to me that sora's worse results-wise than sephiroth. + gameplay wise i think sora is a LOT better, but that's pretty subjective.
@@aphd8381 Took Ned long enough. I love his Seph but the char ain't worth constantly getting 9th at big tournaments.
And yes, Sora's solo results, especially recently, are objectively better. Wasn't disagreeing with that, was just saying they're probably looking at lifetime since release.
Ken also dropped Seph because he said he's bad and not worth it, and that's just straight facts.
"Alright game is over we don't have to make him good so people buy the DLC anymore."
We're seriously using major tournament results only and not something like lifetime win rate.
Farming little Timmy on quickplay and his older brother at locals for five years does not a good character make. The point of using major results is that they're contests of skill between the best players in the world pushing their characters and each other to their limits.
@DevNode27 the best players in the world ain't got shit on little timmy.
What kind of data do you have outside of major tournaments?
@@0oShwavyo0timmy
Sora is like Piranha Plant from the base game. The two most forgotten DLC Characters although there are some others I forget exist. Corrin, Bayo, Etc. But I forget Sora, Min Min, and Plant more often than I forget all of the others
thats more sephiroth than sora, dude just showed up and we had a laugh then he sucked and nobody plays him
@@yggdrasilsaltar I’d argue Banjo is by far the worst off
@@noahr607 definitely banjo
I actually forget banjo more often then I forget plant. They did banjo SO dirty
Banjo moment.
steve has 3 year of experimenting and Sora has 1, ah yes, fair story
0:58 what about glitch regen where he was 2nd
That was fantastic. And that description of Aegis was spot on lol.
I have no earthly clue where the “Sora is lame” allegations came from besides people who simply don’t like Kingdom Hearts. At top level Sora’s almost like Melee Yoshi in the level of intricacy on display. So glad Kameme’s turning up so we can see more.
I only say he’s lame cause it’s based off of KH1 Sora. If it was KH2, then it’d be a different story.
I will never not be pissed that they based Sora off his kh1 combat design. Imagine Sora with a drive guage?? That'd be actually sick 😭
Bro Sora with drive gauge? Everyone is lucky sora didn't come with flow motion from kh3d and the things he can do in kh3
@@kpychamp13Damn. He would be damn near unstoppable.
Being the worst FP2 character isn't even a bad thing when the next worst isn't even that far above you (even though I think Sora > Seph). Its just the others are just so hilariously above them to the point they define the meta.
Thanks for the shoutout!
Sora is way better than Sephiroth. And the dude's pretty broken too
No he isn't better than Sephiroth
“Waaaaah but I don’t like Sora”
“Then why did you ask for him?”
It's not competitive players who asked for him,it was casuals. Just like Banzo
"Bitch, i'm a different person, some people asked for him and some didn't, people are not a monolith, opinions are allowed to be different and change over time, conflating contradicting opinions to create a strawman is counterproductive"
"Stfu, i want to rant over people"
Also this was All the Way Back form the Fighter Ballot IN 2014 To 2015! I Think Most Players Forgot Due to the Year Gap between that and Smash Ultimate Reveal But To be Honest Sora was the Only Runner Up Choice they could pick Becasue everyone was Voted for Shrek or Dragon Ball Z Goku and Sora was the in Middle of A Video Game Charater that was Own By A Movie Company Disney!
are you going to do the pgstats type video where you take a deep dive into a certain player at a tournament and tell a story with their stats?
When we getting the official ranking stats
Ive been playing through Kingdom Hearts for the first time and it’s become of my favorite game series ever. I turned on my switch recently after not using it in ages, and found out that they put sora in smash
I quit smash years ago cus I was lokey trash, but I’m playing online again, tryna learn combos and stuff, just because they added one character. I promise you, KH has a huge fan base, and while I’m getting the impression from these comments that a lot of pro players and commentators find him really annoying, Soras still a super popular character, and I really think we’re gonna see more & more ppl using him in the future 🤷♂️
Awesome video :)
Megaman is gonna feel very different once Tweek starts to use him regularly in tournaments!
“Getting good with this character was going to be at least as much work as they characters they had already played . . . IF NOT MORE” (over Maister footage)
As a smash 4 kid I root for Kameme
I miss da logo intro
I think Sora is excellent for casuals. It was so bad that my roommate banned me from using him when playing for fun. Something about the homing slashes and the thundera along with good mobility make it so among casulas it works well. I don't think nintendo is trying to make OP characters for competitive, just OP characters for two kids playing Smash at a party.
WALT your willingness to devote yourself to all things all smash is the best😎
what soras problem is in the meta is what maister and dabuz did for his publicity, they didnt try and stick it out and main him, and you really cant afford to play sora as anything but that. sora's really good, i main him, i think he's top tier, but i and many other soras are quick to point out how little we like what maister and dabuz did for his look. sora isnt a secondary character, and he isnt a pocket character, his physics are pretty different from most other characters along with his combo/advantage game, if you're gonna play sora, you have to make him your #1 priority or else you risk not understanding him fully. low skill floor, high skill ceiling
U mean high skill floor?
Agreed. I played Sora for a few days and OH MY LORD HE'S GOOD.
The problem with their Soras is their game plans were extremely simple and once their opponents caught onto it they just kind of fell apart. Dabuz only really ever ledge stalled with Sora and didn't really try to play neutral at all and Maister literally just spammed back air. Then they blamed the character for their less than fleshed out game plan and dropped him without really figuring out how to play him effectively. Sora is a bait and punish character that makes most of his money in execution of punish strings and edge guards, neither of which were the focal point of either Dabuz or Maister's gameplay in the first place.
@@ItzMeNidoand thus, these players decided that the character was not made for how they like to play
@@yurplethepurple2064 nah, sora's pretty easy to pick up imo, but if you really wanna go the distance you gotta learn his combos, if you're talking about getting used to his physics and disadvantage then yeah id say he has a pretty high skill floor
3:13 Let's go void!
Im just stunned that people keep saying every day, every time, and every tournaments that Kameme should have stick with Mega-man instead of Sora knowing that is HIS CHOICE and HIS CHOICE ALONE. Like seriously you all, let the man main whoever the hell he wants you aint Kameme or his brain and stop becoming one. He has proved people from time to time Sora is "Not a bad character" even if he didnt win and people still whine about Sora even the commentators whined about it too, but when they picked a different fighter they get excited. What does that tell you huh? It tells you and they are selfish hypocrites. I have been saying this again, and again, and again, and again...just because Sora's movesets are straight forward does not always mean he is easy to play as it takes serious patience and practice. And just because you are play smash bros, a children game, does not mean you have to act like one. But no, yall just wanna take the easy way out and pick a character that is so simple. Even smash bros is not always easy to play. Hell, Nintendo wants nothing to do with the smash community because of this.
Love these.
I honestly wanted Jade from Beyond Good & Evil in Smash.
I don't think it's fair to say Megaman has fallen off in the post lockdown meta. Results with the character feel like they'd improved since covid and so many more Megaman players have been coming up and getting very good results such as Peabnut, MPG and I'm pretty sure there's a Japanese one that I'm forgetting. Even Tweek is picking up the character as a secondary.
Repo probably who you’re thinking, he’s beaten acola before
@@timjim7163 yes Repo thank you
Yeah, Sora and Megaman stonks are up this year without question.
ROXAS DUAL WEILDING.
Y'all aren't awaken yet. We'll catch up in a few months/years.
Hes so lame to play, but im still glad hes in the game...really wish he came with more music...thats genuinely what i was most excited for when he was added.
kameme also beat Larry Lurr in winners and Big D in losers
Folks will complain about anything. It’s an optional $5.99 Smash is a party game first & foremost. So no it’s not what you “paid for.”
You play competitive so obviously you’re looking at this through the completely wrong lens. Party game bro with a competitive aspect.
Now that I think about most dlc characters are fuckin busted like steve I don't have to explain steve
Bruh Sephy is my main guy
Sora >>> sephiroth, he has much more potential than sephiroth and I think people would get much farther as solo Sora than Sephiroth. People who play Sora except for Kameme have a massive playerbase skill issue. Why you don't see players getting more results is because they don't know how to play neutral/fundies so all they know is combos.. and when the combos don't work they get fucked up. you literally can hit nair 1 nair 2 --> upsmash, up air, fsmash, up b, f tilt, or fair dragdown into upsmash or down tilt into a kill confirm; all that are kill moves or confirms and not that difficult to do. Many weaknesses get eliminated when you die at 90 percent getting hit by a nair into a confirm easily or can consistently put out 20-40% with every interaction. If good players played Sora with more priority he would definitely get more results, but a pocket Sora as we know is not the best choice
Right? But people just chose which characters is the best because they have won the grand finals which makes no sense whatsoever. Dont always take the easy way out kids, or else it will make it more difficult for you.
Do you actually have a point, or did you just wanna shit talk every Sora who isn’t Kameme? Because you didn’t actually say anything coherent - you said that people are too focused on combos instead of neutral/fundies then you listed off a set of combos/kill confirms that are “so easy”. It makes no sense because 1) you listed off Sora bnbs that any decent Sora hits maybe once a game. Watch DTP or Unleashed from the states, they are not top level but they land all the bnbs and frequently. 2) even if high level Sora players were dropping the combos you’re talking about, that’s not neutral/fundies that’s advantage state. So which is it, are Sora’s bad at pushing advantage or do they struggle in neutral?
@@0oShwavyo0 both bro, you’re answering your own question. Kameme’s advantage state and neutral are so good that there’s a huge gap between him and players like unleashed and DTP. Sure, good Soras can hit bnbs but being able to find more than once a game with good reaction time and not panicking is kind of difficult which is what Kameme is good at. Kameme knows how to read the shit out of opponents and adapt to their gameplay, which is what any top players need to be at that level. These guys are definitely not at that level but I hope to see them get better results. Why else is there a massive results gap between these players?? a guy flys out from japan and almost always gets top 8 with Sora in NA but others cant get top 32… Maybe some of them don’t go to big events but regardless there doesnt seem to be any other top players that can play Sora to his potential
@@splish_2 I mean sure, Kameme is the top Sora, and the only one getting big results, that’s just verifiable fact. But saying all other Sora players are bad is extremely reductive because Kameme had top level results before Ultimate even came out, so you have to take his overall competitive experience into account. I don’t know of any other competitive Sora players that had a history of high level results in Smash 4 or even a history of high level results in Ultimate on other characters. But there are definitely newer competitors getting good results with Sora at the local/regional level, and if you watch them I don’t see a pattern of weak neutral by any means. If anything, I think you have it completely backwards, where no Sora *including* Kameme has pushed his punish game anywhere near its potential and instead opt to play really safe neutral. Kameme rarely goes for more than one nair or fair loop, almost never goes for nair or fair ladders, and doesn’t often look for IDJ up air into up B either, all some of the more technical and finicky aspects of Sora’s combo game that are also the most likely early kill percent routes. Instead, Kameme is always doing like nair 1 nair 2 up air for quick damage and then resets neutral, and he just does that until the opponent is at 120-140 and up air finally starts to kill. Most Sora’s I see seem like they are emulating Kameme’s playstyle and don’t push the combos to the theoretical limit. Sora vs a heavy could theoretically 0-death any time you hit the noop hit box, but people don’t go for that type of stuff since they are opting to reset to neutral and rely on their neutral game. That’s why your point doesn’t make sense to me, because competitive Sora play is really conservative compared to his theoretical limit with perfect execution
This is why waluigi should've replaced him
They should’ve put Ryu Hayabusa in there instead. Or Billy and Jimmy Lee. Or Sol Badguy.
The fact that Sora is the WORST FP2 character but in the 30s shows how busted Pack 2 really is
must be disney
Sephiroph is garbage tier. Change my mind.
Sora is busted too just not nearly as much as the others
Cope harder.
@@jak199527 ok I will
Agreed. Need some time to play as him.
So from what I grasped, the problem is Sora released balanced instead of broken like other FP2 characters?
sora just isn't super unique or in this case, overpowered via wierd exclusive gimmick
Nintendo fans will really complain that they didnt get to pay to win
But that was the standard nintendo was setting
01:50 Ken has won 1 single major and that was bobc4
And it was with Sephiroth
Yes, I also wish that the characters you pay for are broken and overpowered, that would make for a healthy fighting game.
Sora is probably my favorite character period, so I was happy that he was mid tier bc in my mind it meant that their wouldn't be much reason to complain about him. Smash fans always find a way tho.
Welp, time to ban Sora now as well
Video so gud
Sora is my new main, but despite that, there is one problem with him, that being the fact that his victory theme doesn't sound like it was connected very good.
Rip Yoko Shimomura
@@Yoshizuyuner She died?
Yes! There is something weird about his theme, like is cut early or something
Making pythra as good as they are honestly just feels scummy when, like min min, they're only in the game because they're recent first party characters
Great, I'm glad I'm not the only one who keeps forgetting Sora is in the game. Like, I'll be looking through the character list/playing online/picking random and land on Sora and remember, "Oh yeah, he's in this."
Sora is fun tho.
The other characters are just good, but mind numbing.
We could have gotten a better character lol
I think Seph is the worst FP2 character. Committal gameplan, tall height, and low weight actually make him the worst of all. He has a winged-form but often times he dies before the damage threshold cuz he's so light. He's big no mean a bad character but I think that Sora is way better than him. He has everything to be a top tier. Everything Sephiroth can do, Sora can be better
Sephiroth is pretty good in my opinion you are probably just to impatient
i dunno i prefer characters not being pay to win lol.
it's the kinda modern gaming bullshit which was why smash waited so long to include any downloadable content.
tipped off 14 vid???
SSF2's Sora is superior
People call Sephiroth and Sora "balanced", but when you look at the characters, they clearly were created so they could be weak. Sora in theory has good combos, smash attacks and projectiles but he is heavily held back by his awkward floatiness and the fact he is hyper light; therefore, his potential is hindered. Sephiroth is the same, he has range but for him to be effective he needs to be almost at regular sword reach and his tippers aren't even that great either. He also is hyper light and has the worst frame data in the entire game. His comeback is almost useless because of that.
When you see design such like that, it makes you wonder it was on purpose. Meanwhile Kazuya was perfectly crafted in the way the devs knew exactly what they were doing with him. He is allowed to 1 touch death you, he has super weight and all invincible all super armor. Steve is more of the same, excellent frame data, combos, glitches and good damage output. Pyra and Mythra are all plus except their recoveries.
1st day gang frfr
I'd buy a switch, ssbu, and even online JUST to play sora
I hate online soras they just spam the same moves I wish they had better move set but I’m pretty sure it’s the only way they could use probably but I hate them and they could’ve picked characters more people want like waluigi
man shut the hell up ain’t no one genuinely want Waluigi. Sora is cool, jus not alot of ppl play him right
Sors trribe to play agaisnt in lower tears
Terrible to play as in higher teirs
And mediocre in middle teirs
Nah sora is broken
Good i hate sora
He is not a fighter pass two character. He is an extra character.
Yes an extra character in Fighters Pass 2
@@turndownforwalt Wasn’t planned to be apart of fighter pass 2 and such, wasn’t given the same treatment. He’s more of a piranha plant kind of character.
@@e77gma He's still part of it
Maybe not the best, but the most triggering and oppressive to play on wifi it's not even funny
I hate the fact that Sora’s not top tier, I hate that as much those Dreaded SoKai Shippers
Deserved for being the "best" pick spouted by so many who begged for him to be in the game and then proceeded to never ever play him. IMO he's not played cause he is a relatively simple (as in what his design is) character which FP2 kind of went out of the way to not really do. (Note I don't actually hate that people wanted him actually got him, just that so many begged for him and he's never played, that is the only case of "wasted slot" is appropriate to say when the people who want said character are just wasting what they got).
I don't think that is the case per say. I think we should take into account that probably most people that do wanted him aren't even competitors or even aware one exist. Ultimate made over 31 million overall yet I argue the competitive scene doesn't even make 10% of that profit so a large portion of consumers are for the most part casual and want a nice party game to have. Also being the final character doesn't help since by that point everyone already has a main they are comfortable using and wouldn't drop for a high-skill ceiling character if the results aren't instant. The concept of a "wasted slot" to me sounds absurd as that implies devs should only focus on the individuals rather than the masses especially when western and eastern audiences have wildly different tastes.
@@darc5925 Yes the wasted slot think is stupid because dlc character are bonus
@@Dee-Mellow I mean I felt it was kinda clear that I don't really like the character's addition since he feels very generic and plain to me, especially to end on. If it wasn't though then that's my bad and why I thought many likely do not play him.
Waaah
This is just a terrible take
Look I get that there’s not exactly as good of results as Sephiroth, but Sora is ABSOLUTELY better than Seph. Seph is a somewhat straight forward character (just in terms of like amount of tech) while Sora has a much higher skill ceiling and imo will just get better as time goes on while Seph fades
I don't think Sora is better than Sephiroth in my opinion
Yeah. That Sora guy was disappointing from the start.
HE is the big finale to Ultimate?!
Should've been a Smash exclusive OC for all I care.
like you gotta better suggestion
I'm just glad someone finally says that he's among the worst DLC. I'm a Sora main, he's pretty much all I play nowadays. And on TH-cam, whenever Sora is brought into discussion, everyone only talks about how broken he is. It's probably for clickbait but I haven't really seen anyone talk about how weak he actually is. Just Sora broken here, claims of him being top tier there, no one knows why more people don't play him.
Not to say he's a bad character but if you play him for more than an hour, you're going to start seeing his flaws over and over.
To me he's about the perfect mid tier. Has strong tools without the mobility to use them. Has one of the best recoveries but heavily exploitable. Has combos but only in specific situations and specific match ups.
we still going on about mid tier... an hour of play of any character means nothing bro, if i played some top tiers for an hour like pikachu there's no way anyone would think they are top tier and dont have flaws. His flaws are pretty clear he's floaty and slow, which is also his strongest qualities because it makes his nair/fairs combo into true kill confirms. his combos works on almost all characters in the game especially his confirms which Kameme was literally shitting out during BoBC5. People don't play him because he takes much more time than other top tiers and the reward isn't as obvious as playing aegis or steve.
You definitely are having skill issues if you're not using combos in every matchup you play, you literally can hit nair 1 nair 2 --> upsmash, up air, fsmash, up b, f tilt, or fair dragdown into upsmash or down tilt into a kill confirm; all that are kill moves or confirms and not that difficult to do. Many weaknesses get eliminated when you die at 90 percent getting hit by a nair into a confirm easily or can consistently put out 20-40% or more with every interaction
@@splish_2 my point is that you feel the flaws of Sora a lot faster than other characters. And considering most matches are 5 minutes or less, an hour of playing a character is definitely more than fair for feeling out the character's strengths and weaknesses. It takes much, much more to properly learn and master a character, obviously.
When I mean combos are situational with Sora, it's because his combo starters are relatively stubby. His Nair and down tilt don't cover too much ground and often bring some risk for using them. And if you're using Fair, you're either combo-ing into forward smash or doing the 1-2-3 auto combo.
Compare to a character like Pika, where thier moves are all stubby, it's usually not an issue due to electric properties making more moves safe, being incredibly fast on the ground, being small, and having access to one of the best projectiles, Thunderjolt.
Sora needs to play patient and not actively throw himself into danger, something most of the top tiers can do, get away with and are heavily rewarded for it.
So yeah, he's definitely more in line with mid tier.
@@CrimsoniteSP these are pretty weak points to make a character mid tier. blizzaga and firaga are both some of the best projectiles in the game and nair 1 is relatively safe in neutral and the kill confirms are also some of the best in the game considering not a ton of characters can have so many reliable options. Top tiers you’re describing are literally like game and watch and aegis which are literally top 10 if not top 5 lol. obviously sora isnt that broken but even borderline top tier is still really good. You dont have to be a rushdown to be a good character, sephiroths gameplay is even more patient and even more unsafe rushing in because of poor frame data and shit out of shield options. Yeah his range can combat some of that, but bottom line majority of top players think Sora is top 20-25. So I would trust them more than elite smash knowledge which also makes sora worse because he cant time confirms well with wifi lag
Sora definitely isn't a mid tier. I don't think he's a top tier by any means but he's got way too many tools in his kit to be considered a mid tier. I'd put him behind Seph in high tier. Still the worst FP2 character, but that really just says more about how broken FP2 characters are than anything else.
@@splish_2 I literally compared him to Pika because you did and of course he's better offline, most of the cast is. For the most part, I do agree with what you're saying. Yes he definitely seems better than what I'm saying, his Nair is a relatively safe move and having kill confirms is a great thing to have, and he's at least top 35-30. That's on paper.
In reality he's a character that has a hard time utilizing most of his good qualities. Most of his gameplan is just waiting for the opponent to mess up rather than being proactive.
And I know it's easier to just take pro players opinions at face value but hey, if you want credible sources, I've not only been to many online and offline tournaments, I've been playing competitively since like year 1 of Smash 4. And everytime I have an opinion on a character that differs from the competitive community, it usually ends up being validated somehow.
Although, take these with a grain of salt as the tournaments I went to aren't big official stuff and it's hard to trust anyone online. And if I end up wrong, which I really don't think I am, then maybe we'll see a Sora meta roll around where every top player pockets him. I'd love that but it's just not going to happen.
The last fighters pass character shoulda been jeanne lmao.
It woulda been a proper send off.
And jeanne woulda likely been on the level of smash 4 bayo.
Just when the community thought that the wrath of one witch was over, here comes her bestie lmao.
(Also I love jeanne more than bayo she shoulda at least been an echo)
Sora seems like a really boring character to play. Every time you lose neutral you get knocked off stage and have to spend 10 seconds getting back bruh
Well its not Sora's fault to be a lightweight character. Nintendo should not have done that in the first place. And you shouldnt expect playing as Sora would and\or could be easy. It takes serious time and patience or else you will learn the hard way.
@@Saferoom45 Actually Sora being light and floaty is pretty faithful to KH since he has a lot of aerial combos and spends a lot of time in the air during combat.
@@deadzone6661 Maybe so, i cannot deny it. Sora is still and type a character that people need to not only to understand a character from a different game works, but also respect instead of just picking them and just attack straight away like it was that easy. Same with the rest of the fighters. And sometimes its not the character's fault, its the players ya know.
I actually really like that about his kit personally. If a character has good two frame options or some sort of spike that hits through the ledge you can't telegraph your recovery and have to mix it up, it helps keep my head in the game. On top of that once you figure out neutral and are able to win it, advantage state is absurdly fun.
How is this not true of any character? It’s a platform fighter - if you lose neutral the opponent is going to try and knock you off of the platform and then you are supposed to try and get back on…
Sora is such a waste of a character. We could have had 1000 better designed and more interesting characters but no.
Tell that to the people who never wanted Byleth, Steve, Terry, and Sephiroth. So you can just save it.
@@Saferoom45 Terry and Steve are way more intricate than Sora, and unlike Sora, they weren't hugely begged for by players only to never be played by a lot of the people asking for said character.
@@Krona-fb4dn Terry maybe not, but Steve kinda yea, same with banjo and kazooie, even pyra and mythra people been wanting them for years. And even if Terry and\or Steve wouldnt make a huge impact for the game but people still play as them because of their movesets and saw how fundamental they are. That goes with Byleth and heros. As Sakurai said its about the characters that are fun to play as, not because they are icons, or mascots of their games.
and i am to assume you have another suggestion. I'm not entirely sure if there is another character that has massive appeal to both the west and east. Especially when Nintendo already played their trump cards early on
You guys are using tournament data for the final DLC character only 1 year into his release and trying to generalize that to the game’s whole population. I imagine there are a lot more Sora players among KH fans who are having causal items-on smash games with their friends/family than there are in tournaments where money is on the line.
dont put nairo on screen dude cmon
Smash community is a joke, your game isn't meant to be competitive.