Those Victorians... Always spoiling history for the rest of us! Viking with horned helmets, knights that have to be winched to mount their horses jeez....
There was a Jethro Tull album called "The Broadsword and the Beast" and the cover features an arming sword. So even rock music is responsible for the misconception.
It's generally only an illusion because of the incredibly large basket guard. If you took the guard away, most broadsword blades wouldn't be very different in width than medieval arming sword blades.
@@nobbynoris I know right. It makes perfect sense why an arming can be called a broadsword. It has the same blade and is used in almost the same way. The only real difference is the hilt.
Chris Rigby interesting, thats the Scots Gaelic for big sword? in Irish Gaeilge we would say Claíomh mòr, of course we don't have such a weapon like the Scots did, but linguistically, the words seem oh so similar, big sword xD
To me, a rough definition of a broadsword is a wide-ish blade with little to no profile taper, basically a sharpened bar of steel. So, broad roundish tip vs. narrow pointy tip. Literally a "broad", as in wide, sword regardless of curve. This seems to fit with Scottish broads, hangers, etc., but not most medieval arming swords (if anything more primitive Viking-style swords may fit better here).
Somehow me and my friends got in the habit of calling Cinquedea blades Broadsword about twenty years ago and I never questioned the validity of doing so because the things were broad and the actual name is difficult to pronounce. This video is very informative and one of the best show and tells on your channel.
Yes, the plastic pick sword also known as a cocktail sword, commonly used for stabbing maraschino cherries, olives, sanwiches, lunchmeats and other edible items thinner or shorter than the length of the blade
I'd honestly rather we adopt the modern popular name in the academic community than try to resurrect the technical term to the public. It's a more intuitive use of the term in an environment where we have access to a wider array of swords - the medieval or viking type swords are more deserving of the descriptor "broad" when compared to other blade types. I know the "language evolves" argument is a bit of a cop-out, but the topic of swords *has* expanded in modern times.
Well, I'll never get used to calling a basket-hilted sword a broadsword, because it does not have a wide blade at all. The term "broad" means having an ample distance from side to side; width.
I can recall only one occasion in film where the basket hilted straight sword like the one featured in the video was actually specifically named as a broadsword in the script. In the beginning of the original Highlander, the sword is called a "Toledo Salamanca Broadsword" by the detective investigating the first immortal killed in the film.
5:58 Interesting fullers(?) on this one... I don't think I've ever seen this pattern elsewhere. I also kinda like the way Morrowind uses 'broadsword'; A one-handed, straight, double edged sword that's wider and probably shorter than a 'longsword', which is what we would call arming sword, but with those broadswords around the term makes more sense.
Exactly as you said, Matt, the key issue with many questions of terminology concerning medieval, late medieval and even Neuzeit items is that people mostly didn't pay too much attention to categories. So if someone today says, *THIS is called THAT!*, and refer to history, they are often just ignorant of that fact. It can be quite frustrating to try to work out a "historically correct" terminology, since this historically correct terminology tends to jump around, depending on many many factors ... As for "broadsword", it is also often applied to certain types of Frankonian / "Viking"-period swords, and I think this is absolutely legit as well, since this term is very fitting in a descriptive manner. Although I personally would avoid using the term altogether. So, as so annoyingly (happily?) often in nature, there is not just the one comfortable truth out there :)
In the current DnD dynamic, that has been going since about 1999, there are no weapons called broadswords presented in the main rules. There are shortswords, which are shorter-bladed arming swords. They're presented as looking like a hunting sword. There are longswords, which are (much to my chagrin) arming swords like the one you are holding at 1:28 (one-handed swords that can be two-handed for greater damage mean damage) There are bastard swords, which are right proper longswords (two-handed swords that can be one-handed with extra training) Then there are greatswords, which are Montante/Spadone/Zweihänders. Then there are swords where the Player's Handbook that cover non-cruciform swords Rapier, which look like sabers and play like it really should be a smallsword or a spadone. Scimitar, which us used for scimitars, shamshirs, tulwars, hangers/cuttlases, and other weapons specialized in the cut to the detriment of the thrust. And in a move that angers me to no end, The name Falchion is applied to two-handed scimitars.
Yeah, the two-handed Falchion is something that confuses me. There do seem to be a handful of things that could possibly be considered falchions that were two-handed. But overwhelmingly the falchion was a one handed chopper. Also I think the idea the rapier being a saber was thankfully confined to a single image. What bugs me most though is probably the use of buckler to refer to something just strapped to your forearm with no hand-grip. Which is both the exact opposite of a real buckler which is just held and not strapped, but also completely impractical. Something held on with a single strap would just twist around your arm when hit anywhere but the center. It just makes no sense. Also the armor. Ugh! There is so much wrong with the armor in D&D. Non-existent armors like Ringmail, Studded Leather, full suits of splinted armor, the use of Mail for armor with no mail in them at all. And there was the old pre-3rd ed term Platemail which they never really seemed sure what they were refereeing to.
Ugh, yeah. Studded leather and Ringmail make me so mad. Bucklers too, but its the former two that really piss me off. Bucklers are effectively poorly represented small targes. I hate them, but ugh. Studded leather and Ringmail are things that only exist in fantasy because they're based on looking ad poorly drawn pictures of brigandine and chain or scale. I just checked my 4 and 5E books and yeah, the art of them is much better. I just haven't played nearly as much of them and consistently see 3.PF put cutlasses on their character art and stat them as rapiers - piercing damage and all.
I've also heard broadsword applied specifically toward asian weapons, usually shamshirs, tulwars, and most commonly chinese dao. It's really frequently used to describe that.
Very interesting. I've seen the term broadsword used even more frivolously, to basically mean any mostly straight European sword which isn't a rapier or other slender blade (e.g. small sword). Falchion, arming sword, longsword and so on all just called broadsword.
Matt goes: _"Considers this:"_ and my brain instantly goes *"an arming sword"* (as he holds up the sword) and finishes with _"a broadsword"._ Well Matt, at least you've taught my brain the correct term for it. It's almost like I've learned things by watching your videos... imagine that. I don't even have swords on my walls. :)
The Atlantean sword is hands down the most beautiful sword I've ever seen. It may be funtionally too short but it travels well and is preferable in tight quarters.
When it came to fantasy RPG settings (D&D, LOTR, etc.), the general opinion was that a 'broadsword' was the shorter (and not-pointy) cousin to the longsword... sorta like a Viking sword. The long- & bastard-swords were the stabby swords you saved up to buy, the broadsword was the 'starter sword' for fighter types. ;-)
And all this time I thought that a broadsword was a big long heavy double-handed sword, like what Robin Hood and the Sheriff of Nottingham dueled with in the old Sean Connery movie.
I admit that I always think of a broadsword as a medieval sword with a straight double-edged blade and a rounded tip - primarily a cutting rather than a stabbing weapon. I also think of Vikings, whether they had such swords or not. I’m not completely ignorant though, since I was aware that it is a common term for later period basket-hilt swords. And yes, Jethro Tull is at least partly to blame. And video games. I think the broadsword in Dark Souls matches my description above, iirc.
Thank you, it annoys me in games now after I study real-life swordsmanship on how weapons are called. I always see Arming Swords or Longswords called Broadswords. Once when I got my first practice Longsword, my sister said "Cool Broadsword" and then I ended her rightly.
+scholagladiatoria I saw a Sword in a collection when i was a kid (Mid 80-s) and have never seen another like it. It was simply labeled a ""Late Rapier Hilted Cut & Thrust Sword" If you have any ideas on where to find a similar repro i would be very thankful.
Hi Matt, could i possibly make a video request? - How come we never see Leaf bladed longswords throughout history? (Like we do see in fantasy, like LoTRs). It's a very visually appealing blade shape, but it seems to of never been implemented in later European swords... Instead they were always straight or tapered. And we know people back then loved aesthetically pleasing weapons as much as we do now! - So what gives?? Is there some problem with balance/rigidity over a certain size, or maybe impeding the thrust potential? I'm surprised NOBODY ever thought to have one made. Would love to have your explanation!
Um? Yes I know about ancient leaf blade designs..But that's exactly my point, why did it never seem to be implemented past the ancient times? And never over short sword length? Specifically on larger medieval swords, hand and a half, two handed, longswords? Which is what we often see in fantasy like Lord of The Rings (Glamdring, lots of the the other elven made longswords, were slightly leaf bladed). Would love to know the reasoning it never happened in reality, since it seems a beautiful design.
Craig Steele Unpractical I suppose. First we all known a sword needs to be reasonably light to be functional. This design was Ok when swords were very short in bronze-earlyiron ages. But when swords got longer and longer, the nature of physics causes the sword to became more and more unwieldy. Plus that, The leaf sword had a narrow stem and a heavy tip. If stem was not strong enough, the sword might break. But if stem was thick enough, the sword became too heavy. And if we got these right, the sword had to be short to reduce weight. Then it would be a huge disadvantage when facing enemies all using sword much longer.
I love these kind of videos, where you show all kinds of swords and talk about their similarities and differences... I think I just like to look at all the different swords next to each other. There has to be a better way of phrasing this?!
I know that in France, during the 18th century, when someone was talking about the "épée", it meant the smallsword. Couldn't have it been the same in English, i.e. that they simply called "sword" what we today call invariably "smallsword", and thus any other kind of sword/saber, especially those designed as primary weapons (for cavalry and infantry officers) would have to be differentiated by calling it a "broad sword". Funnily, in French, "broad swords" in general, both with straight and curved blades, are sometimes still called "espadon" by the 1820's. The French word "espadon" is derived from the Italian "spadone" (so a large sword), but the English word "spadroon" is derived from the French. During the 17th and 18th century, what are called "hangers" in English were often called "coutelas" in French (thus "cutlass"), and generally meant any shortish, single edged sword, often curved, designed to chop, be it a military weapon or a civilian implement (for hunting, for example), a bit like "storta" in Italian. And straight cavalry thrusting sabers typical of the French cavalry (cuirassiers and dragons) were colloquially called "latte de cavalerie" (cavalry lath, literally) from at least the beginning of the 19th century.
I took a stage combat workshop about a year ago, the thing they called a broadsword I would call a longsword. What they called rapiers were also probably closer to side swords, but that's more forgivable.
So with regards to the use of the term broadsword applied to sabres as a reference to technique as opposed to weapon design, the term is kind of similar to dussack, in that whilst the term dussack did apply to a specific military weapon, it eventually primarily became known for training weapons and techniques.One would guess that the application of the term broadsword to the Chinese dao/broadsword/sabre was also a result of the 19th century terminology.
Haha I work all of your teachings into how I run D&D games, Matt. My players all know what they mean when they refer to their "arming swords" xD. Keep up the great work!
I remember a Q&A with Gary Gygax years ago and his explanation of what constituted a "broadsword" was simply a Viking/Saxon-era weapon with a thicker blade than the later medieval swords, which he dubbed "longswords". His terminology isn't wrong. The classification system used by HEMA, Oakeshott and others is a very recent invention. It's like the Linnaean system for classifying plants and animals. It's somewhat useful nowadays, but the fact that people didn't use it before Linne invented it, or don't take the Linnaean System as gospel doesn't make them wrong. To this day, zoologists can't make up their minds about which genus the snow leopard belongs to.
Funny, the one thing I call a broadsword is the early modern military swords. The sort used the 30-year war and afterwards, alongside sabres and rapiers (in civilian life). This simply because they are not sabres, they are broader than rapiers and I have no other good umbrella term for them.
I can't believe the blacksmiths back in medieval times did not have some catalog of sorts illustrating sword categories to make it easier for them to understand clearly what their customers ordered.
So what you're saying is that the sword that media and games call Broadswords should be called "Medieval Sword" or "Arming Sword". And you're right; I've seen swords that look exactly like the arming sword you showed that are called "broadsword".
An easy way to remember sword names. Longsword- sword that is long Shortsword- sword that is short Broadsword- sword that is broad Arming sword- a sword you wear when arming
d&d is where I get my sword naming categories. A broad sword has only the very edge bevelled/sharpened with a relatively flat blade, where a long sword is bevelled from the centre of the blade (or very nearly). A long sword would also have a longer blade (of course) and a handle that could be 2-handed, where the broad sword couldn't. That has absolutely no relation to real world swords however. A real broad sword however is a well made pump action shotgun as seen in Romeo+Juliet 'Hand me my broadsword' says Capulet.
D&D is going very slowly in the right direction in terms of terminology, although as a game it doesn't always pay attention realism, in favor of simpler and balanced game mechanics. 5th edition, the most recent edition of D&D, considers longswords as 2-handed weapons that can be used in one hand, dealing less damage that way but allowing you to cast a spell or use a shield with the other hand. However, where it fails to live up to a deeper sense of realism for me is that the weapons are all tied to a single type of physical damage: bludgeoning, piercing or slashing. Anyone who has paid attention to Matt's videos or swordplay in general understands that a longsword or an arming sword is often created to be a compromise between thrusting and slashing attacks. Fortunately D&D 5e is very customizeable, so at my table I'd allow players with straight swords or battleaxes (with spikes) to deal piercing damage if they described making such attacks. However some weapons, like a scimitar, are poorly equipped to thrusting (Or a rapier to hacking and slashing) so I'd probably decrease the player's damage dice. Armor in 5th edition on the otherhand pays close homage to ye olde D&D ideas. There's no gambesons. Studded leather is "the best kind of light armor" and splint armor is the 2nd best thing you can have on your way to get a set of full plate armor. My solution has just been to swap in terms like "brigandine" and "gambeson" in there and keep the mechanics as they were.
A few minutes ago I would have sworn that in Dungeons & Dragons that a "broad sword" was a single edged weapon, but I have just searched the PDFs online and cannot find a description anywhere. My recollection is that "broadsword" was used in the DeCamp/Carter editions of Howard's Conan novels as a longsword or arming sword, and in AD&D or earlier rules "broadswords" were single edged. This will drive me nuts.
"Broadsword" rhymes, and is easy to remember, and sounds either more technical or more "romantic" than just "sword". So people are going to use "broadsword" too often, just as today they use "epicentre" when they really mean "centre", "simplistic" when they only mean "simple", and "track record" when they mean only "record". It's just the way people are.
Since baskethilt swords were called claymore (as noted in “swordsmen of the British empire”), I assumed it was derived traditionally from the two handed longsword with the same name and origin (the one with the V shaped guard and the quatrefoil decoration at the ends of the quilons). All this because claymore means broadsword.
In Morrowind and Oblivion both a longsword and a broadsword were one-handed swords, a broadsword a bit broader, when a two-handed sword was called a claymore. Thankfully, in Skyrim they changed the one-handed sword to just "sword" and a claymore to "greatsword".
Matt holds up a sword which is very broad. "This is NOT a broadsword." He then holds up the sword which is much less broad. "THIS is a broadsword." I feel like Crocodile Dundee debating on what is or is not a knife. lol At any rate, good video.
Now if you double the width of the blade on the broadsword you get what is known as the "fat sword" or "super chunky sword" as is described in many medieval writings.
About the first part, the sharpest weapon I have are kitchen knives,and I have seen many comments here by people, who admit to have never handled a medieval weapon, so the group of informed people is not as small as you think.
In 2117 a holovid comes out explaining what a broadsword is, and how the definition changed from the describing a basket hilted sword in the 18th century to a saber in the Victorian period, and eventually an arming sword in the late 20th century. But how it really should never be a term used to apply to a wide beamed laser sword despite what the sci-fi vr adventures say.
In D&D they seem to refer to something slightly shorter than the first sword you picked up, usually look viking inspired and always very flat and broad. Not to mention also in D&D Longswords are Armingswords.
I'd argue that most people who aren't particularly well informed with weapons, would actually think that an arming sword is called a longsword and a broadsword is a longer, two handed sword. I've seen this as a common misconception (and indeed it's one I had for a while), that it goes: One handed: Dagger, Shortsword One/two handed: Longsword Two handed: Broadsword
Not only english language has this kind of problem. Fair example of this in my own language would be "pałasz"- pallasch. Pałasz is described as one or two edged(sometimes false dge can go to up 1/3 lenght of the blade, sometimes it is fully double edged) weapon with curved sabre grip- that means for polish or turkish, or hungarian weapons pretty specyfic type of sword- as they often didn`t possess very complicated hilts. But, if we turn to Western Europe and see thier swords, cut- and- thrust swords with straight sword grip, or one edged straight swords with sword grip, but protected by basket hilts- they are also often called "Pałasze"(pałasz- singular, pałasze- plural). Schiavonna is often called pallasch, infantry french sabres, that are often striaght in the blade but have curved saber- grip- are called pallasches... And hell if i know why Maybe it comes from the fact, that Pole would use that kind of sword exactly as he would use a pałasz? Or maybe it comes from laziness and not wanting to invent or adapt another word? Personally i think it comes, just as everything else, from lack of knowlege and just slapping some random word onto object that kinda rminds people of something Scimitar would be good example- guys who like RPGs and stuff will call scimitar any curved weapon, that is not looking like a European Sabre, even though that there are a names for specyfic weapons, like Tulwar. But i kind of stopped caring some time ago, as this idea that whole world has to be classified and labeled is pretty new, dating back to 19th century, and people before didn`t care enough to actually come up with thier own classes and names for every goddamn thing. I can understand that you`d want to classify human body parts- that is important at least to a doctor and guy he is about to cut open with scalpel, wants to know that doctors knows his thing, but who cares what is the proper name of blade that is being swung at you? Will you stop fighting just to say "it`s not a broad sword, it`s a arming sword", and then being killed by guy who doesn`t care?
Man, I forgot how beautiful that shiny sabre is. I love that one. Also - Victorian era people... They seem to be the reason for most of our current misconceptions. I don't like them for that.
If you search kindle's free library I believe there is a book on broadsword, quarterstaff and single stick fighting. Not sure how good or accurate it is, but it is there.
Wherever someone mentions a "mediaeval broadsword" I think of Boromir's sword from the Fellowship of the Ring film - which in my mind is the shape of a Cinquedea but the length of an arming sword but that's an exaggeration really, I think out only looks thick compared to Aragorn's swords.
boromir's sword looks a lot like 'the sovereign' from albion's next generation line (type xiv) albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-sovereign-xiv.htm
Hey Matt, would you consider making a video about the use of two-handed weapons from horseback? It seems very rare, at least in the West, but I've seen some depictions of it, and it looks like a lot of Eastern cavalry used pole-arms from horseback.
The word "Broadsword" i think comes from italian "Spadona" (litterally big sword) (wich is different from spadone) In italy, "Spadona" were those kind of swords (1500-1600) wich had really protective hilt (as peppenheimer, cupguards, basket hilts or "guardia spezzata") as the usual mid/late renaissance sideswords but a slightly shorter but winder blade, as the arming swords from middle ages
While I'd never quibble with your profound in depth knowledge of this subject, I would just like to suggest that, given that the term "arming sword" was itself a much later (Victorian or even later) term retrospectively lied to the medieval sword, it isn't then so wrong to also refer to it as a "broadsword " after all. I mean, most medieval swords do seem to have had very wide blades, certainly compared to the swords of later centuries.
Hello Matt, could you please give more information about the last sabre you showed in this video? I'm interested in such an almost straight long sabres.
i know this is offtopic but i got a suggestion of a future video. i think it would be entertaining to alot of viewers if you reviewed some of michaelcthulhu weapons and how effective they would be in a real battle comtext. he has a channel where he builds famous custom swords and such from fantasy culture.
I feel like this is a where being wrong actually makes more sense at least in a comparative sense. The arming sword is about twice as *broad* as the broadsword which itself is actually really narrow but also pretty long and therefore should be called a longsword. That would completely avoid the need for the labyrinthine explanation of this is a broadsword because it was noticed that it's marginally broader than a sword so small it's in the name. That's like calling anything larger than a Derringer, a hand cannon since the Derringer is made to fit in the palm of your hand and is therefore a literal handgun.
Not knowing any of the history behind the name before, the image I had gotten from popular media was that a broadsword was another name for longsword, used by people who didn't really know what they were talking about. That's pretty weird, but I doubt I'm alone in this. The people asking if you teach broadsword might actually mean longsword, or even greatsword...
I feel like "it actually goes back to the victorian period" could be used to the source of most misconceptions on European weapons....
and about ancient times in general
And the supposedly "dark" middle ages...
DnD too.
+strategiusz Most of the wrongness from D&D came from the fact that they used Victorian sources.
D&D is just a grab-bag collection of unsourced fantasy pop-culture.
"It probably goes back to the Victorian Era" is probably the most common statement when confronting misconceptions about the Middle Ages... probably.
"Now I'll go back to the Victorian period in a minute."
I saw no time travel in this video. Disappointing.
You should check further : the very concept of a video is time traveling :p
Grégory Fleury Mind = Blown
He did but he altered the past in a way that he doesn't born wich stopped him from going back in time and created a time paradox
Those Victorians... Always spoiling history for the rest of us! Viking with horned helmets, knights that have to be winched to mount their horses jeez....
History is written by the Victorians.
germanvisitor2 That's actually a REALLY clever joke.
Thank you!
best pun i've heard in a long while
I guess those of you who do not know that D&D is one of the main sources of broadsword confusion are too young to have played 1st edition.
That was a pretty broad definition.
BA DUM DISSHHHH!!
Personaly i prefer the iconic " wha wha whaaaaaaaaa ", i think the "" BA DUN TSSSSSS " is a bit overused.
TheAquarius1978
No one CARES!
wha wha whaaaaaaaaa
Much better lol
This would make a great drinking game. Take a shot every time Matt says that it gets more complicated than that.
It also could apply to "general speaking"
"context" if you want to get so drunk you don't know what day it is.
I just take a drink every time Matt picks up a different sword.
But I like my liver.
You really wonna crank it too 11? take a shot every time he makes a sexual innuendo.
There was a Jethro Tull album called "The Broadsword and the Beast" and the cover features an arming sword. So even rock music is responsible for the misconception.
Jethro Tull... yeaa!!!
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jethro Tull, the level of possible memes related to this video is hilarious!
It bothers me that a "broadsword" is a relatively narrow sword.
Josh Fox If they'd called it a Broadersword maybe alot of this confusion would have never happened. :-D
It's generally only an illusion because of the incredibly large basket guard. If you took the guard away, most broadsword blades wouldn't be very different in width than medieval arming sword blades.
The "Less Narrow Sword"
It infuriates me. The term 'broadsword' may be chronologically inaccurate when employed for Mediaeval swords but it is nevertheless accurate.
@@nobbynoris I know right. It makes perfect sense why an arming can be called a broadsword. It has the same blade and is used in almost the same way. The only real difference is the hilt.
"Broadsword: what is it?"
Absolutely-
NOTHIN'!
Sing it again, WOOOOOOOO!
Good god yall!
I blame that old Jethro Tull album myself.
Indeed! *goes off to listen to it*
Here comes the other word - claymore.
And then again - people tend to refer to scottish baskethilted sword as a claymore just as well as to the great sword.
'Claidh Moragh' (sp?), pretty much just "big sword".
Chris Rigby interesting, thats the Scots Gaelic for big sword? in Irish Gaeilge we would say Claíomh mòr, of course we don't have such a weapon like the Scots did, but linguistically, the words seem oh so similar, big sword xD
What's so complicated about Claymore?? The instructions are literally on it: "FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY".
Worked great in Vietnam.
Yes, it might be nice to get Matt's take on the basket weave hilt versus two handed sword both being called "Scottish claymore".
To me, a rough definition of a broadsword is a wide-ish blade with little to no profile taper, basically a sharpened bar of steel. So, broad roundish tip vs. narrow pointy tip. Literally a "broad", as in wide, sword regardless of curve. This seems to fit with Scottish broads, hangers, etc., but not most medieval arming swords (if anything more primitive Viking-style swords may fit better here).
Somehow me and my friends got in the habit of calling Cinquedea blades Broadsword about twenty years ago and I never questioned the validity of doing so because the things were broad and the actual name is difficult to pronounce. This video is very informative and one of the best show and tells on your channel.
that medeival arming sword is gorgeous Matt!
Next video: Frenchman penetrates Englishman with broadsword, a true account by Swordsmen of the British Empire
Have you hacked my account?
Frenchman penetrates Englishman with a stick, a true account by Swordsmen of the British Empire.
Frenchman penetrates Englishman, a true account of international sex!
take a shot every time Matt says "but," or, "it's a little bit more complicated"
serious question - is there any kind of sword that isn't broader than a small sword?
No.
Yes, the plastic pick sword also known as a cocktail sword, commonly used for stabbing maraschino cherries, olives, sanwiches, lunchmeats and other edible items thinner or shorter than the length of the blade
some foils maybe?
Would you classify foils and epees as swords?
Star Wars Rebels lightsabres?
I'd honestly rather we adopt the modern popular name in the academic community than try to resurrect the technical term to the public. It's a more intuitive use of the term in an environment where we have access to a wider array of swords - the medieval or viking type swords are more deserving of the descriptor "broad" when compared to other blade types.
I know the "language evolves" argument is a bit of a cop-out, but the topic of swords *has* expanded in modern times.
Thanks for that it cleared a lot up for me anyway. Years ago I always thought of the hand and a half as a broadsword. Thanks for clearing that up.
"What's a broadsword?"
Matt: It really depends on the context...
This is the exact video I was looking for, thanks.
The highland sabre at 8.20 is a beaut. Anyone know if Matt's done an in depth video on it?
Love the brief intro!
Wish more people would follow your lead.
@1:12 "I'll go back to the Victorian period in a bit"
you got a time machine now, Matt?
Well, I'll never get used to calling a basket-hilted sword a broadsword, because it does not have a wide blade at all. The term "broad" means having an ample distance from side to side; width.
Agreed.....Conan would laugh in your face if you showed up to fight him with your puny baskethilted sword and called it a "broadsword"!
would really love to see a series of videos detailing your current sword collection.
You brought me a broadsword and clear understanding.
I can recall only one occasion in film where the basket hilted straight sword like the one featured in the video was actually specifically named as a broadsword in the script. In the beginning of the original Highlander, the sword is called a "Toledo Salamanca Broadsword" by the detective investigating the first immortal killed in the film.
Oh that last sabre is really pretty, love it.
In a fantasy book I read a couple of months ago they called a 2h sword broadsword. I knew it was wrong but the term is all over the place.
5:58 Interesting fullers(?) on this one... I don't think I've ever seen this pattern elsewhere.
I also kinda like the way Morrowind uses 'broadsword'; A one-handed, straight, double edged sword that's wider and probably shorter than a 'longsword', which is what we would call arming sword, but with those broadswords around the term makes more sense.
Exactly as you said, Matt, the key issue with many questions of terminology concerning medieval, late medieval and even Neuzeit items is that people mostly didn't pay too much attention to categories. So if someone today says, *THIS is called THAT!*, and refer to history, they are often just ignorant of that fact.
It can be quite frustrating to try to work out a "historically correct" terminology, since this historically correct terminology tends to jump around, depending on many many factors ...
As for "broadsword", it is also often applied to certain types of Frankonian / "Viking"-period swords, and I think this is absolutely legit as well, since this term is very fitting in a descriptive manner. Although I personally would avoid using the term altogether.
So, as so annoyingly (happily?) often in nature, there is not just the one comfortable truth out there :)
In the current DnD dynamic, that has been going since about 1999, there are no weapons called broadswords presented in the main rules.
There are shortswords, which are shorter-bladed arming swords. They're presented as looking like a hunting sword.
There are longswords, which are (much to my chagrin) arming swords like the one you are holding at 1:28 (one-handed swords that can be two-handed for greater damage mean damage)
There are bastard swords, which are right proper longswords (two-handed swords that can be one-handed with extra training)
Then there are greatswords, which are Montante/Spadone/Zweihänders.
Then there are swords where the Player's Handbook that cover non-cruciform swords
Rapier, which look like sabers and play like it really should be a smallsword or a spadone.
Scimitar, which us used for scimitars, shamshirs, tulwars, hangers/cuttlases, and other weapons specialized in the cut to the detriment of the thrust.
And in a move that angers me to no end, The name Falchion is applied to two-handed scimitars.
Yeah, the two-handed Falchion is something that confuses me. There do seem to be a handful of things that could possibly be considered falchions that were two-handed. But overwhelmingly the falchion was a one handed chopper.
Also I think the idea the rapier being a saber was thankfully confined to a single image.
What bugs me most though is probably the use of buckler to refer to something just strapped to your forearm with no hand-grip. Which is both the exact opposite of a real buckler which is just held and not strapped, but also completely impractical. Something held on with a single strap would just twist around your arm when hit anywhere but the center. It just makes no sense.
Also the armor. Ugh! There is so much wrong with the armor in D&D. Non-existent armors like Ringmail, Studded Leather, full suits of splinted armor, the use of Mail for armor with no mail in them at all. And there was the old pre-3rd ed term Platemail which they never really seemed sure what they were refereeing to.
Ugh, yeah. Studded leather and Ringmail make me so mad. Bucklers too, but its the former two that really piss me off. Bucklers are effectively poorly represented small targes. I hate them, but ugh. Studded leather and Ringmail are things that only exist in fantasy because they're based on looking ad poorly drawn pictures of brigandine and chain or scale.
I just checked my 4 and 5E books and yeah, the art of them is much better. I just haven't played nearly as much of them and consistently see 3.PF put cutlasses on their character art and stat them as rapiers - piercing damage and all.
So bring me my broadsword, and clear understanding, to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
I've also heard broadsword applied specifically toward asian weapons, usually shamshirs, tulwars, and most commonly chinese dao. It's really frequently used to describe that.
Very interesting. I've seen the term broadsword used even more frivolously, to basically mean any mostly straight European sword which isn't a rapier or other slender blade (e.g. small sword). Falchion, arming sword, longsword and so on all just called broadsword.
About that sabre you take out at 7:50 or so, never had too much of a thing for that sword class, but god damn is that one beautiful weapon
Matt goes: _"Considers this:"_ and my brain instantly goes *"an arming sword"* (as he holds up the sword) and finishes with _"a broadsword"._
Well Matt, at least you've taught my brain the correct term for it. It's almost like I've learned things by watching your videos... imagine that. I don't even have swords on my walls. :)
The Atlantean sword is hands down the most beautiful sword I've ever seen. It may be funtionally too short but it travels well and is preferable in tight quarters.
When it came to fantasy RPG settings (D&D, LOTR, etc.), the general opinion was that a 'broadsword' was the shorter (and not-pointy) cousin to the longsword... sorta like a Viking sword. The long- & bastard-swords were the stabby swords you saved up to buy, the broadsword was the 'starter sword' for fighter types. ;-)
I've seen the arming sword called a "Knights Broadsword". Also, in one very well edited RPG it was "boardsword".
And all this time I thought that a broadsword was a big long heavy double-handed sword, like what Robin Hood and the Sheriff of Nottingham dueled with in the old Sean Connery movie.
I admit that I always think of a broadsword as a medieval sword with a straight double-edged blade and a rounded tip - primarily a cutting rather than a stabbing weapon. I also think of Vikings, whether they had such swords or not. I’m not completely ignorant though, since I was aware that it is a common term for later period basket-hilt swords.
And yes, Jethro Tull is at least partly to blame. And video games. I think the broadsword in Dark Souls matches my description above, iirc.
Thank you, it annoys me in games now after I study real-life swordsmanship on how weapons are called. I always see Arming Swords or Longswords called Broadswords. Once when I got my first practice Longsword, my sister said "Cool Broadsword" and then I ended her rightly.
+scholagladiatoria
I saw a Sword in a collection when i was a kid (Mid 80-s) and have never seen another like it. It was simply labeled a ""Late Rapier Hilted Cut & Thrust Sword"
If you have any ideas on where to find a similar repro i would be very thankful.
Hi Matt, could i possibly make a video request? - How come we never see Leaf bladed longswords throughout history? (Like we do see in fantasy, like LoTRs). It's a very visually appealing blade shape, but it seems to of never been implemented in later European swords... Instead they were always straight or tapered. And we know people back then loved aesthetically pleasing weapons as much as we do now! - So what gives?? Is there some problem with balance/rigidity over a certain size, or maybe impeding the thrust potential? I'm surprised NOBODY ever thought to have one made. Would love to have your explanation!
Craig Steele Gladius Hispaniensis?
Um? Yes I know about ancient leaf blade designs..But that's exactly my point, why did it never seem to be implemented past the ancient times? And never over short sword length? Specifically on larger medieval swords, hand and a half, two handed, longswords? Which is what we often see in fantasy like Lord of The Rings (Glamdring, lots of the the other elven made longswords, were slightly leaf bladed). Would love to know the reasoning it never happened in reality, since it seems a beautiful design.
Craig Steele Unpractical I suppose. First we all known a sword needs to be reasonably light to be functional. This design was Ok when swords were very short in bronze-earlyiron ages. But when swords got longer and longer, the nature of physics causes the sword to became more and more unwieldy. Plus that, The leaf sword had a narrow stem and a heavy tip. If stem was not strong enough, the sword might break. But if stem was thick enough, the sword became too heavy. And if we got these right, the sword had to be short to reduce weight. Then it would be a huge disadvantage when facing enemies all using sword much longer.
A sword with heavy tip is very hard to control when long, simple lever mechanism.
This is realy interesting, because for me, as for complete amateur, term broadsword associates with "viking's era", "nordic" one-handed swords.
I love these kind of videos, where you show all kinds of swords and talk about their similarities and differences... I think I just like to look at all the different swords next to each other. There has to be a better way of phrasing this?!
I know that in France, during the 18th century, when someone was talking about the "épée", it meant the smallsword. Couldn't have it been the same in English, i.e. that they simply called "sword" what we today call invariably "smallsword", and thus any other kind of sword/saber, especially those designed as primary weapons (for cavalry and infantry officers) would have to be differentiated by calling it a "broad sword".
Funnily, in French, "broad swords" in general, both with straight and curved blades, are sometimes still called "espadon" by the 1820's. The French word "espadon" is derived from the Italian "spadone" (so a large sword), but the English word "spadroon" is derived from the French. During the 17th and 18th century, what are called "hangers" in English were often called "coutelas" in French (thus "cutlass"), and generally meant any shortish, single edged sword, often curved, designed to chop, be it a military weapon or a civilian implement (for hunting, for example), a bit like "storta" in Italian. And straight cavalry thrusting sabers typical of the French cavalry (cuirassiers and dragons) were colloquially called "latte de cavalerie" (cavalry lath, literally) from at least the beginning of the 19th century.
I took a stage combat workshop about a year ago, the thing they called a broadsword I would call a longsword. What they called rapiers were also probably closer to side swords, but that's more forgivable.
I gotta hand it to DnD. Unlike the Scots, they named the swords by the way they looked. Scots should have named their sword basketsword.
So with regards to the use of the term broadsword applied to sabres as a reference to technique as opposed to weapon design, the term is kind of similar to dussack, in that whilst the term dussack did apply to a specific military weapon, it eventually primarily became known for training weapons and techniques.One would guess that the application of the term broadsword to the Chinese dao/broadsword/sabre was also a result of the 19th century terminology.
Matt! great great channel! thank you very much. I learn a lot from you.
America couldn't "copy" anything from Britain in the 18th century, America WAS British in the 18th century, remember?
Well, for three quarters of it :-)
That basket hillt looks so comfy,
Haha I work all of your teachings into how I run D&D games, Matt. My players all know what they mean when they refer to their "arming swords" xD. Keep up the great work!
I remember a Q&A with Gary Gygax years ago and his explanation of what constituted a "broadsword" was simply a Viking/Saxon-era weapon with a thicker blade than the later medieval swords, which he dubbed "longswords".
His terminology isn't wrong. The classification system used by HEMA, Oakeshott and others is a very recent invention. It's like the Linnaean system for classifying plants and animals. It's somewhat useful nowadays, but the fact that people didn't use it before Linne invented it, or don't take the Linnaean System as gospel doesn't make them wrong. To this day, zoologists can't make up their minds about which genus the snow leopard belongs to.
8:30 that blade is gorgeous.
Someone :Describes the difference between an armingsword and a broadsword
Me: "A I see you're a man of culture as well!"
Funny, the one thing I call a broadsword is the early modern military swords. The sort used the 30-year war and afterwards, alongside sabres and rapiers (in civilian life). This simply because they are not sabres, they are broader than rapiers and I have no other good umbrella term for them.
I can't believe the blacksmiths back in medieval times did not have some catalog of sorts illustrating sword categories to make it easier for them to understand clearly what their customers ordered.
5:58 That sabre is absolutely brutal!
And the basket hilted broad sword I first knew as a Claymore before I knew the two handed sword as a claymore
So what you're saying is that the sword that media and games call Broadswords should be called "Medieval Sword" or "Arming Sword". And you're right; I've seen swords that look exactly like the arming sword you showed that are called "broadsword".
Memetics is very murky. Case in point, the word "meme."
An easy way to remember sword names.
Longsword- sword that is long
Shortsword- sword that is short
Broadsword- sword that is broad
Arming sword- a sword you wear when arming
Well either or ... That arming sword is amazing!
d&d is where I get my sword naming categories. A broad sword has only the very edge bevelled/sharpened with a relatively flat blade, where a long sword is bevelled from the centre of the blade (or very nearly). A long sword would also have a longer blade (of course) and a handle that could be 2-handed, where the broad sword couldn't. That has absolutely no relation to real world swords however. A real broad sword however is a well made pump action shotgun as seen in Romeo+Juliet 'Hand me my broadsword' says Capulet.
D&D is going very slowly in the right direction in terms of terminology, although as a game it doesn't always pay attention realism, in favor of simpler and balanced game mechanics. 5th edition, the most recent edition of D&D, considers longswords as 2-handed weapons that can be used in one hand, dealing less damage that way but allowing you to cast a spell or use a shield with the other hand. However, where it fails to live up to a deeper sense of realism for me is that the weapons are all tied to a single type of physical damage: bludgeoning, piercing or slashing. Anyone who has paid attention to Matt's videos or swordplay in general understands that a longsword or an arming sword is often created to be a compromise between thrusting and slashing attacks.
Fortunately D&D 5e is very customizeable, so at my table I'd allow players with straight swords or battleaxes (with spikes) to deal piercing damage if they described making such attacks. However some weapons, like a scimitar, are poorly equipped to thrusting (Or a rapier to hacking and slashing) so I'd probably decrease the player's damage dice.
Armor in 5th edition on the otherhand pays close homage to ye olde D&D ideas. There's no gambesons. Studded leather is "the best kind of light armor" and splint armor is the 2nd best thing you can have on your way to get a set of full plate armor. My solution has just been to swap in terms like "brigandine" and "gambeson" in there and keep the mechanics as they were.
A few minutes ago I would have sworn that in Dungeons & Dragons that a "broad sword" was a single edged weapon, but I have just searched the PDFs online and cannot find a description anywhere. My recollection is that "broadsword" was used in the DeCamp/Carter editions of Howard's Conan novels as a longsword or arming sword, and in AD&D or earlier rules "broadswords" were single edged. This will drive me nuts.
"Broadsword" rhymes, and is easy to remember, and sounds either more technical or more "romantic" than just "sword". So people are going to use "broadsword" too often, just as today they use "epicentre" when they really mean "centre", "simplistic" when they only mean "simple", and "track record" when they mean only "record". It's just the way people are.
Since baskethilt swords were called claymore (as noted in “swordsmen of the British empire”), I assumed it was derived traditionally from the two handed longsword with the same name and origin (the one with the V shaped guard and the quatrefoil decoration at the ends of the quilons). All this because claymore means broadsword.
In Morrowind and Oblivion both a longsword and a broadsword were one-handed swords, a broadsword a bit broader, when a two-handed sword was called a claymore. Thankfully, in Skyrim they changed the one-handed sword to just "sword" and a claymore to "greatsword".
Matt holds up a sword which is very broad. "This is NOT a broadsword."
He then holds up the sword which is much less broad. "THIS is a broadsword."
I feel like Crocodile Dundee debating on what is or is not a knife. lol
At any rate, good video.
Now if you double the width of the blade on the broadsword you get what is known as the "fat sword" or "super chunky sword" as is described in many medieval writings.
A broadsword is a weapon with which you "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women!"
About the first part, the sharpest weapon I have are kitchen knives,and I have seen many comments here by people, who admit to have never handled a medieval weapon, so the group of informed people is not as small as you think.
I always wondered where the broadsword reference in the story about John Brown killing slaveowners in Kansas came from.
i love broadsword in the game Mount & Blade with fire and sword! if it even actually is a broadsword like it says in the game o.O
Can you do a video detailing the sword you are showing at 8:30 in this video? That's a beautiful sword.
In 2117 a holovid comes out explaining what a broadsword is, and how the definition changed from the describing a basket hilted sword in the 18th century to a saber in the Victorian period, and eventually an arming sword in the late 20th century. But how it really should never be a term used to apply to a wide beamed laser sword despite what the sci-fi vr adventures say.
In D&D they seem to refer to something slightly shorter than the first sword you picked up, usually look viking inspired and always very flat and broad. Not to mention also in D&D Longswords are Armingswords.
im pretty sure 3.5 broad sword is a hand and a half sword if im correct
Nope, hand and a half is a bastard sword in D&D. Which you need an exotic weapons proficiency to wield properly.
Is it better to have a broad longsword or a long broadsword?
I'd argue that most people who aren't particularly well informed with weapons, would actually think that an arming sword is called a longsword and a broadsword is a longer, two handed sword. I've seen this as a common misconception (and indeed it's one I had for a while), that it goes:
One handed: Dagger, Shortsword
One/two handed: Longsword
Two handed: Broadsword
*mobster voice* I thought this were a sword for broads, yous guys.
Not only english language has this kind of problem. Fair example of this in my own language would be "pałasz"- pallasch. Pałasz is described as one or two edged(sometimes false dge can go to up 1/3 lenght of the blade, sometimes it is fully double edged) weapon with curved sabre grip- that means for polish or turkish, or hungarian weapons pretty specyfic type of sword- as they often didn`t possess very complicated hilts. But, if we turn to Western Europe and see thier swords, cut- and- thrust swords with straight sword grip, or one edged straight swords with sword grip, but protected by basket hilts- they are also often called "Pałasze"(pałasz- singular, pałasze- plural). Schiavonna is often called pallasch, infantry french sabres, that are often striaght in the blade but have curved saber- grip- are called pallasches... And hell if i know why
Maybe it comes from the fact, that Pole would use that kind of sword exactly as he would use a pałasz? Or maybe it comes from laziness and not wanting to invent or adapt another word?
Personally i think it comes, just as everything else, from lack of knowlege and just slapping some random word onto object that kinda rminds people of something
Scimitar would be good example- guys who like RPGs and stuff will call scimitar any curved weapon, that is not looking like a European Sabre, even though that there are a names for specyfic weapons, like Tulwar. But i kind of stopped caring some time ago, as this idea that whole world has to be classified and labeled is pretty new, dating back to 19th century, and people before didn`t care enough to actually come up with thier own classes and names for every goddamn thing.
I can understand that you`d want to classify human body parts- that is important at least to a doctor and guy he is about to cut open with scalpel, wants to know that doctors knows his thing, but who cares what is the proper name of blade that is being swung at you? Will you stop fighting just to say "it`s not a broad sword, it`s a arming sword", and then being killed by guy who doesn`t care?
Man, I forgot how beautiful that shiny sabre is. I love that one.
Also - Victorian era people... They seem to be the reason for most of our current misconceptions. I don't like them for that.
If you search kindle's free library I believe there is a book on broadsword, quarterstaff and single stick fighting. Not sure how good or accurate it is, but it is there.
Wherever someone mentions a "mediaeval broadsword" I think of Boromir's sword from the Fellowship of the Ring film - which in my mind is the shape of a Cinquedea but the length of an arming sword but that's an exaggeration really, I think out only looks thick compared to Aragorn's swords.
boromir's sword looks a lot like 'the sovereign' from albion's next generation line (type xiv)
albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-sovereign-xiv.htm
We at our Kungfu school call our Oxtail sabers "broad swords" because they are rather broad.
Hey Matt, would you consider making a video about the use of two-handed weapons from horseback? It seems very rare, at least in the West, but I've seen some depictions of it, and it looks like a lot of Eastern cavalry used pole-arms from horseback.
And ironically it is the broadest of all swords that you shown in the video. XD
The word "Broadsword" i think comes from italian "Spadona" (litterally big sword) (wich is different from spadone)
In italy, "Spadona" were those kind of swords (1500-1600) wich had really protective hilt (as peppenheimer, cupguards, basket hilts or "guardia spezzata") as the usual mid/late renaissance sideswords but a slightly shorter but winder blade, as the arming swords from middle ages
absolutely fascinating.
"I'll go back to the Victorian period in a minute" ...new Dr Who confirmed?
While I'd never quibble with your profound in depth knowledge of this subject, I would just like to suggest that, given that the term "arming sword" was itself a much later (Victorian or even later) term retrospectively lied to the medieval sword, it isn't then so wrong to also refer to it as a "broadsword " after all. I mean, most medieval swords do seem to have had very wide blades, certainly compared to the swords of later centuries.
Hello Matt, could you please give more information about the last sabre you showed in this video?
I'm interested in such an almost straight long sabres.
i know this is offtopic but i got a suggestion of a future video. i think it would be entertaining to alot of viewers if you reviewed some of michaelcthulhu weapons and how effective they would be in a real battle comtext. he has a channel where he builds famous custom swords and such from fantasy culture.
I feel like this is a where being wrong actually makes more sense at least in a comparative sense. The arming sword is about twice as *broad* as the broadsword which itself is actually really narrow but also pretty long and therefore should be called a longsword. That would completely avoid the need for the labyrinthine explanation of this is a broadsword because it was noticed that it's marginally broader than a sword so small it's in the name. That's like calling anything larger than a Derringer, a hand cannon since the Derringer is made to fit in the palm of your hand and is therefore a literal handgun.
Not knowing any of the history behind the name before, the image I had gotten from popular media was that a broadsword was another name for longsword, used by people who didn't really know what they were talking about. That's pretty weird, but I doubt I'm alone in this. The people asking if you teach broadsword might actually mean longsword, or even greatsword...