Thanks to Established Titles! Get 10% off any purchase with code SG10 and take advantage of the Labor Day sale! Go to establishedtitles.com/SG10 and help support the channel!
Hi Matt. Just thought you should know: HEMA IS DEAD th-cam.com/video/Efz-9EJNQBA/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=RussMitchell%3AAuthor%2CSwordsman%2CMovementExpert Cheers!
I can see that the cup hilt has a lot of practical advantages, but the last point seals it for me- swept hilt rapiers are just some of the best-looking swords ever.
Not by chance, even when cup-hilt were in use, swept-hilts were MUCH more (almost exclusively) present in gentlemen's portraits (in northern-Italian gentlemen's portraits, the schiavona was also very present).
I think, conversly, one of the reasons the other style is so common now, is that there is a high chance anyone who yakes up rapier training wanted to be Zoro as a kid, so the cup is more in line with that.
I like to compare rapiers and small swords to modern day edc handguns in the US. The convenience of a smaller, lighter, less bulky sidearm cannot be overstated. Just like today while older guys tend to favor 1911’s and other full sized pistols in large calibers despite their bulk, and younger generations prefer smaller, lighter plastic guns, I can guarantee you in 1780 there were old men who insisted on wearing their full sized cup hilt rapier while their grandsons ran around with small swords. As Clint Smith said, when it comes to sidearms, they’re never small enough when you’re carrying them, or big enough when you need them.
100% This. I like to compare it to safety equipment in general--such as bike helmets or worksite protection gear: You won't need it 99.9999% of the time, but for those 3-4 moments in your life where you actually do? You want to be caught wearing it, not wishing you hadn't left it at home because you found it cumbersome and uncomfortable to wear around for the incredibly unlikely event that you will end up actually needing it that particular day. It doesn't matter if one helmet is marginally "superior" if it's uncomfortable and a lot more likely to get left at home after a period of time due to complacency and laziness. And as we all know, it's precisely when we let our guards down like that that we suddenly get blindsided and eat shit in a particularly pathetic manner.
I love this channel's content, but why have recent videos had so many editing problems? Blanking screen, artifacts, stalling... This wasn't the case before
Not sure about any other recent videos, but this one did have a lot of artifacts, unfortunately, while still being quite entertaining. Hopefully, it's a one off and will also get fixed.
Ease of manufacture may have played a part in the popularisation of cup hilts, bashing a bowl out of sheet metal is a lot easier than the more complex work in other hilts. It has to be noted that cup hilts largely disappeared in favour of smaller guards on both military and civilian swords. From personal experience I find the larger the cup the more it obscures the vision of the rapieriste. Just as with sword and buckler the opponents blind spot hand be used to disguise ones handwork.
I accept that cup-hilted rapiers are in most ways more practical, but the swept-hilt rapier is simply the most aesthetic sword to come out of Europe and I am sure that kept them in use long after they were no longer the newest technology.
Yes, don't forget that for a lot of gentlemen a rapier was more of a fashion item than a weapon of combat anyway. In the media duels are popular because they are full of drama, but they were actually quite rare (for obvious reasons, it's super dangerous even if it's not to the death). So a majority of noblemen would never actually use their rapier in combat, at least in a civilian setting, and a lot of nobles user sabres and guns when they went to war anyway. I wouldn't be surprised at all if coolness was a much more important factor than that 1%-2% more effectiveness.
I'd like to mention a 19th century spanish rapier variation/descendant called the "espada de barquillas". It has a rapier blade, some broad-ish and some very slender, and the hilt is a mix between a cup-hilt and a sabre's bell guard. It ends up being more convenient for wearing and quite similar to a sidesword.
Interesting. Just googled it. It's like a squished cup-hilt projecting into a knuckle bow. It really does look like an olympic sabre hilt XD Very ugly to my eyes, and cuts down on the advantage of the cup in all-round defence, but it might be easier to wear and might be a good compromise for some.
"spada da lato" (sidesword) was named like that to distinguish it form the "spada d'arcione", the one that was secured to the saddle. It was the one used in civilian context, and the one that, along with the dagger, would have been the last resource of the knight if unsaddled.
Style is still a big deal for sidearm wear. I'm in Texas so open carry is allowed. I carry concealed but I don't worry about things like reaching over my head exposing my gun, so I carry my 1911 when wearing a suit rather than my Arex Rex Zero1 because the 1911 looks so nice. If my sidearm is incidentally exposed, I want it to look appropriate to my attire. Style also dictates things like which guns you're going to own in the first place. For example, I absolutely hate the way Glocks look. If they were comfortable to shoot, and I shot them better than other guns, I'd consider carrying one anyways, but there are significantly better looking options that I've gotten as good or better results with, so you'll never catch me carrying one. If the cup hilt or swept hilt looks better to a 17th century figure, and works about the same, it makes sense that they'd choose the one they like the look of better.
I'm with you on the Glocks. They're about as stylish as carrying a brick around. I stick to my Eastern European built DA/SA's. The Arex is a good one. Stuff from my tribe's part of the world just seems to fit my hands better. I like the look of 1911s a lot, but I don't like the feel at all.
I'm thinking along the same lines but with modern blades instead of modern sidearms. I work as a cook and everyone's knives are a matter of personal taste. I mostly use a carbon steel nakiri (Japanese vegetable cleaver) with a very simple black handle. I have one coworker who favors a long, thin, stainless steel meat slicer with a gorgeous white and gold handle. Another guy uses a simple, sturdy Mercer knife. Our sous has a very flashy "Damascus" steel chef's knife with a marbled handle. I imagine you can guess a few things about our personal tastes and styles just from that.
I'm with you on this one. The 1911 is the firearm equivalent of an early 1970s muscle car. Bold, sexy, and stylish. Glocks have all the sex appeal of a Prius.
My understanding of the Spanish versions of cup hilt rapiers is that they had the cup edge rolled less closely to form a gutter around the cup rim. The feature was called the "rompepunta" and was designed to catch the tip of a rapier thrust that deflected off the cup, in order to hold or break the tip. I suppose this was common knowledge at the time, but I don't see this construction on non-Spanish designs. Because of this intent, I assumed that another reason to use pierced guards was to potentially catch a sword tip, and possibly break a couple of inches of blade off. I cannot find any comments, confirming or denying this.
I remember the cup hill rapiers/swords in all the 3 musketeers movies, especially movies from France. 😀😀😀 Matt has allergies. Every time he sneezed, the video blacked out for a second.
I mean, correct me if I’m wrong here, but I had interpreted the cup in the cup hilt as a practical production move. Almost like having a shield boss built into your sword both practically and in terms of the smithing operations needed to produce it.
Heh. Back in the day, I had an RPG character that used a rapier. Of course, none of the 25mm figures could have such a thin blade. So I took a 'buccaneer' figure, cut out his massive cutlass, and installed a small pin, making a cup-hilt guard with Milliput. If only I could make a full-sized one so easily. 😁
I'd conjecture that films use cup hilts because Californian propmakers looking for historical swords to copy in local museums are more likely to find swords popular in the Spanish Empire in the 17th century than 16th century English or German or French swords.
@@scholagladiatoria i know for sure, based on some conversation i had with a very famous fight coreographer and olympic fencing master, that in many cases they used cup hilted swords wether because it allowed them to modify modern olympic swords to resemble antiques, for example adding longer quillons to the cup or making an Italian foil guard a little wider and adding a bigger fig shaped pommel to look something alike a transitional rapier, or because actors were thaugt the fundamentals with olympic epees before starting using the proper stage swords, and since the choreographer wanted them to be the most comfortable with the movements to seem the most realistic (even sometimes changing hits or parries as the actors were feeling more keen doing something different) they were given cu hilted weapons as they had the most similar feeling in the hand. Anyway, this may be just two of the reasons they might had been, he spoke about his own experience and his father's, I'm just reporting what he told me to help me in a research for my degree. (Hope I managed to write it all correctly and clearly 😅) Greetings from Italy!
I feel like cup-hilts are just easy to kinda bullshit up for props. (It sure as hell is for artists.) Much easier to finangle up a bowl or dished boss sorta thing and toss it on top of a basic quillon + D-shaped knuclebow than to make a complex swept hilt that also looked aesthetic.
Hey Matt. I think your camera may have issues. Every 2-3 minute there is a flicker and a black vertical line or a blackscreen appear for a second. In this particular video there were also a few seconds where the colours were wrong. I've noticed the same phenomenon in your latest videos. Perhaps your camera need some service.
Thanks for mentioning Florence! Unfortunately, Florence being in Italy, nobody working there knows anything about arms and armours. They're all about the architecture and the family history, which is quite cool, but it's still sidenote-level information in that type of museum. To me, it's like a tiny Wallace Collection housed in a Florentine-flavoured Sir John Soane Museum. Of course, Stibbert was half British, so that's rather fitting.
As a fencing defense using blade point attacks and defense against other stabbing attacks, the cup hilt fulfills that function more effectively. Without a doubt. In fact, it was a response to the lack of real effectiveness of other hilt models.
I own an antique cup hilt and an antique swept hilt rapier and a major difference between the two swords is that the swept hilt has a broader blade (from memory it is 2.5 cm at the hilt of the swept hilt compared to 1.5 cm for the cup hilt). I suspect that this is relatively common (ie rapiers got narrower as time went on) and this makes the wider blade rapier more effective as a cutting weapon (although it is still primarily for thrusting). Slightly different capabilities of the weapon would encourage a slightly different use of the weapon.
The Spanish 1728 "Bilbo" pattern cavalry sword is still my favorite combination of cut-and-thrust and complex hilt. Would love to hear your remarks on it.
On my list of swords to get, I love that it looks like the bastard love child of both a Spanish Rapier and the Bell guard of a sabre, even though it is much earlier than those sabres existed.
I'm studying the spanish rapier structure as I was comissioned to make a highly functional one for softcombat, and this video was a BIG help! Thanks for the through content as always!
Hi Matt, your point about cuphilts and the Netherlands needs a little more specification. Cuphilts come up in the mid-seventeenth century, like you said. At that point in time the Netherlands are not a whole anymore. You got the Spanish Netherlands and the Dutch Republic. On the Republics side you would be hard pressed to find an cuphilt.
All good points! Style, function and nationalism would influence one's choice of rapier. I suggest that one might also wish to carry a sword that has been passed down through the family. Perhaps an old sword would be rebuilt, a particularly ornate hilt matched with a more modern blade. One of my prized hunting knives belonged to my father, and a valued pocket knife was carried by my grandfather. Thanks for all the hard work you put into your videos.
The D&D fantasy novels of R.A. Salvatore feature a peculiar sword called Charon's Claw with a handle that looks like an upside down skeleton. The pommel is a skull, the hilt a backbone, and the cross guard a pelvis. The legs are bent downward so that the feet rest alongside the skull, and the knees shield the thumb and back of the hand. And a ribcage basket protects the wielder's knuckles. (There is no mention of any arms.) As the blood red blade extends in the other direction from the pelvis, you can imagine what anatomical region it is mean to connote. Earlier passages describe the sword as a slender once-handed longsword, but more recent books have made it sound more like a heavy hand-and-a-half sidesword or even broadsword.
I'd have to say, if I was given a choice of cup-hilt vs swept-hilt, I would go for the cup-hilt style, mainly because I like the cup-hilt style and it would provide excellent protection for your hand while using it. Great info! New subscriber here!
As Mr. Easton is usually quite fastidious about his production values I suspect this is an Internet upload issue, not him needing a new camera, memory card. software or computer.
There is a point that I have considered, but not seen much documentation on, and perhaps someone can help. As swept hilts appeared earlier, I've always associated them with the earlier styles of defense where application against various other weapons get some attention. Later defense manuals become preoccupied with duels between mostly identical weapons. So, my theory is that the bars and how they are applied is meant to protect against heavier cutting attacks from arming swords or hafted weapons. As the rapier became more of a duelist's weapon the design changed towards deflecting and controlling other similar swords. I think this could also explain the lengthening of the quillon in the later designs. Once again, fantastic video. I love your work and how generous you are with your study.
One advantage of a swept hilt is that you can actually look through your guard when thrusting while keeping your whole and arm behind it. A cup or shell hilt can obscure your vision if you try the same motion.
Interesting note about the low countries and the seeming prevalence of the cup hilt; It seems that in the early half of the 80 years war, you don't see them at all, but by the midway point (ca. 1600), they start to appear mostly on the 'Spanish'/Southern Low Countries' side, while the side of the United Provinces hardly shows evidence of cup hilts being used, also culturally being closer to various German states than to the French or Spanish (like the Southern parts of the Low Countries were).
Through the Habsburg dynastic conection the spanish influence in south germany/austria in terms of fashion and court ceremonial is also quiet substantial, so "german style" might be more varied aswell.
May be 15 to 20 years ago, i , Brittas boyfriend, was invited? to a meeting of coin collectors. As special guest the curator ? of the coin collection from ,Württembergisches Landesmuseum' was there and hold a speech about coins from Württemberg in late 17th century. The man showed enlarged pictures from coins , showing the same Duke. On the first coin the Duke was shown with large french whig ( Perücke in german), the second coin showed him in armour with short cut natural hair, the third coin again with french whig. What was the reason? With the coins, showing him frech dressed, he wanted to show: I am a modern ruler! The coin , showing him in armour with german hairstyle, was pressed in wartime, the Duke wanted to show: I am a german Duke and will fight the French! A bit out of context, but from the time, Matt Easton speaks in this Video. Coins, dress, hairstyle , sword design, Propaganda was known in every era.
Great video as always Matt. Do you have a buyer's guide / recommendations? The sword market is a jungle and it is very hard to determine quality of a weapon from a website's pictures and descriptions
I am a student of 'La Verdadera Destreza' And I must say that it is a very interesting and very intelligent video. Greetings from Academia Da Espada (A Coruña, Spain)
I'm a bit late in this conversation, but it is worth mentioning that a great (and overlooked) advantage of the cup hilt's long straight quillions is to trap the opponent's blade between your blade's forte and your quillion just as one would do with their sail dagger.
I prefer the shell or pappenheim hilts with the wider but shorter cut and thrust blades, I know the longer narrower blades with cup hilts are technically "better" but that's my preference, I love rapiers 🙂
Having done Italian rapier, while i find swept hilt rapiers more attractive and used a swept hilt myself, I can understand the popularity of cup hilts in HEMA, the swept hilt does not provide anywhere near as much hand protection if your opponent is a dick and plays the hand sniping game.
I have waited a long time for this topic, after I sold all my cup-hilt rapiers...and a few side-swords...😢 You covered the topic fairly well Matt...a Crash Course in Rapier's ...which are indeed complex, but can offer alot of advantages and disadvantages as well.
Excellent video, as always Matt! Funny side-note, when I got involved in SCA light-weapon practice and needed a safe rapier, I took the blade from an Olympic foil and fitted my cheap "El Cid" sword guard to it. It worked much better than it should have, and being a cheap guard, I didn't care if it got dinged-up (which it really didn't). 😁
Loved this video, I'm with Chris below, Swept hilts are beautiful, I also think more practical in anything other than a one on one duel, and even then if the opponent is using a cloak as defense or has a dagger the earlier more 'cut and thrust' (side sword) type rapier might still be better. Bring back "the art of the sword' at the Wallace.
Hi, Albannach (scotsman) here, from alba (scotland), established titles are a scam it literally does not work the way they are telling you and if you try to use these titles in any formal capacity you will be in serious (criminal) legal trouble - the title has actual legal connotations and privileges attached. The title is tied to the estate, not the land itself, it doesn't matter if you own one of the parcels of land they are not tied to the title of the estate and the Lord Lyons will take issue with you regarding this.
Extremely informative video! Thanks for this and clearing up a few misconceptions I had. But that book "The Rapier & Small-Sword: 1460-1820" appears to be rather rare and out of print, at least here in the States, the cheapest price I could find was $350 USD with a high of $699 USD on Amazon!
Great video - so glad you’ve come back to rapiers. Fascinating swords and sword culture. I wonder if one style of rapier / guard is more or less associated with main gauche? Or with the use of bucklers?
IIRC, the Main Guache, also referred to as the sail guard dagger, is more commonly used with the Cup Hilt Rapier, and often made as a pair that shared similar decorations. Bucklers probably more used with the Swept hilt due to giving extra hand protection, but no real huge association there.
@@Scuzzlebutt142 Maine gauche is not specifically sail daggers afaik, but dedicated parrying daggers generally. And no, parrying daggers gradually supplanted bucklers (at least with rapiers) pretty much regardless of rapier type. Parrying daggers tend to pair better with the defensive methods of rapiers than bucklers.
I gotta say, as a rapierist, I actually like the simpler but symetrical hilts. The saxon double two port rapier is one of my favorite design. It looks really nice and is really all you need. Italian ring hilts are always my favorite, but I found that if used properly, a thrusting sword only needs good point control and a cross guard. Its nice to have extra bits of metal to protect your hand, but a well practiced practitoner of Capo Ferro, or even some small sword systems would do just fine with only a cross guard.
Thanks Matt great video on rapiers! So what type of rapier would the French musketeers have used in your opinion? Swept hilted or small swords? It's still unclear to me
I have to say, Matt, that I always enjoy the expertise, based on actual historical information, you bring to these subjects is awesome. I also like your speaking style: I suspect you are a good professor. I have a really weird QUESTION: - - > I don't know if you have ever played "medieval" (fantasy or otherwise) pen-and-paper role-play games, but if you have, which one has the best combat system that simulates actual weapons and armor ??
Another point about the symmetry of the cup hilt- when you present the sword forward and your hand is covered and can't be seen by the opponent, you can change the hand position without them seeing it so they might do something that you can counter that they wouldn't normally do
I have a theory that you're mention of rotating a cuphilt versus a swepthilt reminds me of. Many sword guards develop flares or balls at the end of them I theorize this is in part because it makes the sword cut better. Why? Because it adds mass away from the center of rotation which causes objects to resist turning. Think of an ice skater who has their hands extended and spins slow and then draws their hands in and spins faster. Curved swords resist twisting on their own due to the nature of the curve naturally putting Mass outside the center of rotation straight blades don't have this. Spin a straight blade with no guard versus one with a long guard that has weight at the end of it and you will immediately notice that the sword with the guard will resist twisting more. The effect that is if you're cut does not have perfect Edge alignment a sword with less Mass away from the center of rotation is more likely to twist and pull itself out of a cut rather than one that resists that twisting and the energy still continues into the cut.
Possibly, but you may be think it through to much. The biggest reason I've found is that if you trap someones blade between your blade and quillons, and you have a swell or ball at the end, they can't slide it out, they have to get you to release the pressure on the blade.
@@Scuzzlebutt142 having multiple purposes doesn't negate any one purpose. I did state "in part" I didn't say it was the only, or even primary, reason for the balls/flares Asfor trapping a curved C shaped guard works better than a straight | shaped guard; flares/balls are not the only solution. But to reduce spin for a straight blade the only way is to increaseass away from the axis of rotation. But to test my theory I have cut with the same straight, double edged blade mounted with no guard, a simple straight guard & a straight guard with balls. I could definitely feel a difference between the 3; the balls did help stabilize the blade. Some historic longswords have pointed guards for stabbing with; like those shown in Fiore & Tallhoffer. Many later longswords have bave balls/flares. Why give up the offensive capability of points?As a gross simplification very early longswords often had wider cutting blades & many later longswords had slender & pointed blades to emphasize the thrust. The balls/flares lessen the effectiveness of the guard when used to stab when in close & half-swording. But the balls/flairs do help eliminate spin & stabilize the cut which makes the cut more likely to bite; especially with thinner light blades. Again watch an ice skater spin; arms extended & they spin slow, bring arms in they spin easier thus faster.
Armor and fashion often mimic each other. Look at the Peascod breast plate and doublet of England as opposed to the German and Italian armor and fashion. It’s a fascinating study!
An important historical point is that the Spanish cup hilt was used extensively in combat by Spanish forces, literally around the world - and when up against opponents who used weapons and techniques not well known to Europeans (i.e;, Japanese, Philippine, Aztec, Inca, etc) the cup hilt with its extra protection and focus on thrusting into enemies more used to slashing / clubbing would have been (and was) easier to train one in the use of fairly quickly, and was very effective against the non-European fighters in the Americas and the Pacific basin. Going up agains an Aztec with one of their ferocious war clubs really didn't require much fencing finesse.
I LOVE the ideas of rapiers. An excellent show to watch with ALL kinds of superb acting and all kinds of period action, is Alatriste. Its 7 books crammed in to one film, and if Scholo can do a review of the fighting, I think he would be impressed :D I'd love to learn how to use these competently. Adorea Olomouc has done some excellent short films using these too :D
Debonair Spaniard: cup-hilted protects you more; it's symmetrical so you can wield it better and it's stab-centered, witch is the most efficient way to kill. Bitter British: not stylish enough
A point perhaps worth a mention regarding the cultural differences in hilt Cup v bar.. I wonder if, weather, and ease of cleaning/maintaining the sword are anything to do with it. When I, as an English man, look at a cup hilt rapier. I think of rain funneling down the cup and in to the scabbard. I think of large shiny surfaces to keep polished, clean, and rust free. Although the rapier was worn low and almost horizontal, it would collect crap whilst worn. I see a swept hilt as fairly easy to maintain. So, if wearing a sword is 90% of its life, then cleaning and polishing is 9.9%.
Just started the vid: my guess- more popular in movies because it's easier for a prop department to bang out a 'good enough' model. Cheapest Olympic foil. Cheap tin bowl with a cross piece glued on. No finicky curves and swirls.
I wonder how much the sword's technical difference came in play versus fashion and trainers that are availlable. If your friends and teacher use a Cup-hilted or another model, I bet you would too.
The different rotational mechanics aren't a bad thing, per se. The lower, more outside ward Matt mentioned with the swept hilt means that the most common movement that will require a very, very fast rotation is the parry toward the inside line. The asymmetry of the swept hilt actually assists with that, as the outer guard is significantly heavier. Fencing with an asymmetric guard in the 'wrong' hand, though, definitely becomes more difficult, as the guard fights you in the same movement.
The 16C Cup Hilt Rapier was Captain Hook's original sword in the cartoon. In the movie Hook we don't see him using a rapier at all. More of a foil I think. The one that killed Rufio.
Based on what this video said I pretty much would come to the conclusion that against lighter cuts and strikes which do not really have much force or power behind them the cup hilt is better but against heavier and more powerful of cuts or strikes the swept hilt provide more protection (or at least that is in terms of the concussive force of a strike crushing your hand)
I think the complaints in some courts were just becouse of that. I can't imagine the hilarity of dozens of men trying to mingle about with their long "tails" bashing into everything and everyone.
@@anttilehto2628 That, and tripping. Elizabeth banned swords over a certain length, citing the reason that the gentry/aristocracy kept increasing their sword lengths to show off, and stepping on and tripping on them as they trailed too close to the ground.
Zorro TV series of the 50s and 60s from Disney made The Cup and Hilt the most recognized and Iconic Sword ever. Every kid knew the Zorro Sword when they seen it.
The cup may offer better protection, but the swept hilt is undoubtedly much more elegant, and elegance in a civilian weapin like the rapier is extremely important. The thing will hang at your side 90% of the time, it must be in harmony with your outfit.
"You'd be surprised how detrimental a poor choice of fashion can be. Take this dress: it may be all the rage now, but in a very short time it can become tiresome, an affront to the eyes." - Garak. A humble tailor
Very nice video and good explanation. I would have also liked to hear how the fencing is different with different rapiers. Did the guard affect the fencing style? Would be nice to see examples.
That bit of talk about the durability of cup vs swept hilts got me to thinking about something everyone has probably noticed about fantasy weapons. How feasible is it to have gems set into the hilt and/or pommel of a weapon meant to see actual combat? I know that it would be quite easy to put gems on something purely ceremonial since it will never actually be used to strike anything, but what about all of those gem decorations on fantasy weapons that are depicted being used in real combat? Would it be possible (within reason), or would any gem on a weapon end up lost or destroyed?
fancy decorated swords have definitely seen combat. Where the decorations are and how they're done affects durability and usability. Fantasy swords often have a stone inlaid at the middle of the crossguard, which is fine since no blade should hit there (your thumb and or hand would be gone anyway). Sides of the pommel is also common and that is also fine, but probably more likely to break. Still, if the gems break or not has no meaning if it's a life or death situation.
Broadly speaking, not very. Extremely few functional swords were inlaid with gems, and very few at all-including ornamentals-up until the 1600s and 1700s. Even then, it was far more common in India and West Asia than it ever was in Europe, where they might stud the entire pommel and/or scabbard in gems. In reality, while plenty of precious stones are harder than iron or steel, they are often far less durable to being struck (knock a diamond at the right angle and it will shatter), and even if not struck directly, that energy travels throughout the sword. While it depends somewhat on the type of weapon, where the stone is set into it (pommels might be used to strike or parry, guards encounter a _lot_ of hard forces, etc), and what sorts of forces it is encountering (eg other side-arms versus polearms), other forms of decoration were generally preferred. However, there are some outliers-a few arming and longswords with pommels made _completely_ out of rock crystal, and a couple of high-end swords encrusted with a gem or two among the royalty of the Late Middle Ages Holy Roman Empire. And there are the famous Migration Era swords with garnet cloisonne'. I have seen a few knives and daggers whose _entire hilts_ were a single piece of red coral, albeit, how functional those pieces were is _highly_ suspect.
@@atom8248 It depends on how much it protrudes and if it breaks. If the stone breaks, that can compromise the weight or structural integrity of the hilt which can affect its usage as a tool, depending. If you are referring to the coral pieces that I mentioned, they were not inset; the _entire_ hilt was made of a single piece of coral (aside from the tang). Some had coral 'quillons,' and several of them had branches of coral coming off of the 'pommel'-not very functional ergonomically. That said, they were mostly knives, with some debatably qualifying as daggers or _very_ small swords, and were certainly possessions of the affluent, thus making any use likely infrequent and thus ergonomics less of a concern. That said, if we go into knives, I have seen far more instances of stone inlay or entire segments (or entire hilts) of stone, mostly varieties of quartz (rock crystal, amethyst, etc). Generally not _combat_ knives, though, more in the line of upper class/caste edc or culinary utensils. The only part of a sword not at especially high risk of being struck is the handle, which would present its own concerns for having stone set into it besides that the hand would be covering it up while in use.
@@NevisYsbryd I've seen the coral hilts before and totally agree on that point. small inset gems in crossguard and to an extent the ricasso of a sword probably has negligable effect on performance and durability
Might just be my connection, but the video seemed a bit choppy for a video about rapiers. But interesting to think about the differences in hilt styles and why.
Coming late to this one, sorry... About "national" styles you do not mention Scandinavian countries (Denmark and Sweden were prominent in that period if I am not mistaken). Were they simply following other styles (German, I guess?) or did they have styles of their own?
Yo! I own exactly the same Kvetun cuphilt. Must say it s very heavy on the tip, and very difficult to keep the center with. that s why I d never use it for Destreza, also too long. Destreza rapiers are around 1m long. Keeping rust in my house 😄
@@gabrielwolf7534 oh that is very interesting, by 1m i mean the blade is 1m max, normally. that kvetun blade is 1.10 or 1.15. i m a 1,75m man, find it unconfortable to keep the center
Thanks to Established Titles! Get 10% off any purchase with code SG10 and take advantage of the Labor Day sale! Go to establishedtitles.com/SG10 and help support the channel!
Yo
Hey Matt, is it possible that you could do a video about the partisan or execution sword ?
Hi Matt. Just thought you should know:
HEMA IS DEAD
th-cam.com/video/Efz-9EJNQBA/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=RussMitchell%3AAuthor%2CSwordsman%2CMovementExpert
Cheers!
@@UndrState I was wondering the same.
There is a certain level of irony with a Englishman selling off (yes technically just advertising for) Scottish land....lol
I can see that the cup hilt has a lot of practical advantages, but the last point seals it for me- swept hilt rapiers are just some of the best-looking swords ever.
Not by chance, even when cup-hilt were in use, swept-hilts were MUCH more (almost exclusively) present in gentlemen's portraits (in northern-Italian gentlemen's portraits, the schiavona was also very present).
Excellent point and one reason I have always liked the Pappenheim-hilt.
I think, conversly, one of the reasons the other style is so common now, is that there is a high chance anyone who yakes up rapier training wanted to be Zoro as a kid, so the cup is more in line with that.
I personally think the cup hilt is cooler
Schiavona is my favourite, sword of the Croats 🇭🇷
I like to compare rapiers and small swords to modern day edc handguns in the US. The convenience of a smaller, lighter, less bulky sidearm cannot be overstated. Just like today while older guys tend to favor 1911’s and other full sized pistols in large calibers despite their bulk, and younger generations prefer smaller, lighter plastic guns, I can guarantee you in 1780 there were old men who insisted on wearing their full sized cup hilt rapier while their grandsons ran around with small swords. As Clint Smith said, when it comes to sidearms, they’re never small enough when you’re carrying them, or big enough when you need them.
Nobody ever survived a gunfight complaining they brought too much gun.
Madlad quote.
@@knightjack don't know it. That was mine from delivering pizza in FL with a full size 1911 I 10mm and two spare mags back in 1992.
@@kennethfharkin Chad.
100% This. I like to compare it to safety equipment in general--such as bike helmets or worksite protection gear: You won't need it 99.9999% of the time, but for those 3-4 moments in your life where you actually do? You want to be caught wearing it, not wishing you hadn't left it at home because you found it cumbersome and uncomfortable to wear around for the incredibly unlikely event that you will end up actually needing it that particular day.
It doesn't matter if one helmet is marginally "superior" if it's uncomfortable and a lot more likely to get left at home after a period of time due to complacency and laziness. And as we all know, it's precisely when we let our guards down like that that we suddenly get blindsided and eat shit in a particularly pathetic manner.
I love this channel's content, but why have recent videos had so many editing problems? Blanking screen, artifacts, stalling... This wasn't the case before
Right. This one is particularly annoying.
Adding a comment to draw attention to this too.
Not sure about any other recent videos, but this one did have a lot of artifacts, unfortunately, while still being quite entertaining. Hopefully, it's a one off and will also get fixed.
I've been seeing this a lot, too, in recent videos, FWIW. And this one was unusually bad.
I thought it was just TH-cam
Ease of manufacture may have played a part in the popularisation of cup hilts, bashing a bowl out of sheet metal is a lot easier than the more complex work in other hilts. It has to be noted that cup hilts largely disappeared in favour of smaller guards on both military and civilian swords.
From personal experience I find the larger the cup the more it obscures the vision of the rapieriste. Just as with sword and buckler the opponents blind spot hand be used to disguise ones handwork.
I accept that cup-hilted rapiers are in most ways more practical, but the swept-hilt rapier is simply the most aesthetic sword to come out of Europe and I am sure that kept them in use long after they were no longer the newest technology.
Yes, don't forget that for a lot of gentlemen a rapier was more of a fashion item than a weapon of combat anyway. In the media duels are popular because they are full of drama, but they were actually quite rare (for obvious reasons, it's super dangerous even if it's not to the death). So a majority of noblemen would never actually use their rapier in combat, at least in a civilian setting, and a lot of nobles user sabres and guns when they went to war anyway. I wouldn't be surprised at all if coolness was a much more important factor than that 1%-2% more effectiveness.
I appreciate the acknowledgement that "I thought it was prettier" is a historical influence
I'd like to mention a 19th century spanish rapier variation/descendant called the "espada de barquillas".
It has a rapier blade, some broad-ish and some very slender, and the hilt is a mix between a cup-hilt and a sabre's bell guard.
It ends up being more convenient for wearing and quite similar to a sidesword.
Sounds similar to the earlier Bilbo/Bilbao, from the 16th Century.
Interesting. Just googled it. It's like a squished cup-hilt projecting into a knuckle bow. It really does look like an olympic sabre hilt XD Very ugly to my eyes, and cuts down on the advantage of the cup in all-round defence, but it might be easier to wear and might be a good compromise for some.
Espada de conchas?
"spada da lato" (sidesword) was named like that to distinguish it form the "spada d'arcione", the one that was secured to the saddle. It was the one used in civilian context, and the one that, along with the dagger, would have been the last resource of the knight if unsaddled.
Style is still a big deal for sidearm wear. I'm in Texas so open carry is allowed. I carry concealed but I don't worry about things like reaching over my head exposing my gun, so I carry my 1911 when wearing a suit rather than my Arex Rex Zero1 because the 1911 looks so nice. If my sidearm is incidentally exposed, I want it to look appropriate to my attire.
Style also dictates things like which guns you're going to own in the first place. For example, I absolutely hate the way Glocks look. If they were comfortable to shoot, and I shot them better than other guns, I'd consider carrying one anyways, but there are significantly better looking options that I've gotten as good or better results with, so you'll never catch me carrying one. If the cup hilt or swept hilt looks better to a 17th century figure, and works about the same, it makes sense that they'd choose the one they like the look of better.
It’s no wonder kids are shot-up in American schools. Why the hell anyone wants to carry a gun around on a daily basis is beyond me.
I'm with you on the Glocks. They're about as stylish as carrying a brick around. I stick to my Eastern European built DA/SA's. The Arex is a good one. Stuff from my tribe's part of the world just seems to fit my hands better. I like the look of 1911s a lot, but I don't like the feel at all.
I'm thinking along the same lines but with modern blades instead of modern sidearms. I work as a cook and everyone's knives are a matter of personal taste. I mostly use a carbon steel nakiri (Japanese vegetable cleaver) with a very simple black handle. I have one coworker who favors a long, thin, stainless steel meat slicer with a gorgeous white and gold handle. Another guy uses a simple, sturdy Mercer knife. Our sous has a very flashy "Damascus" steel chef's knife with a marbled handle.
I imagine you can guess a few things about our personal tastes and styles just from that.
I'm with you on this one. The 1911 is the firearm equivalent of an early 1970s muscle car. Bold, sexy, and stylish.
Glocks have all the sex appeal of a Prius.
My understanding of the Spanish versions of cup hilt rapiers is that they had the cup edge rolled less closely to form a gutter around the cup rim. The feature was called the "rompepunta" and was designed to catch the tip of a rapier thrust that deflected off the cup, in order to hold or break the tip. I suppose this was common knowledge at the time, but I don't see this construction on non-Spanish designs. Because of this intent, I assumed that another reason to use pierced guards was to potentially catch a sword tip, and possibly break a couple of inches of blade off. I cannot find any comments, confirming or denying this.
I thought about this last week. This is the third time that Matt Easton read my mind.
I've been watching you.
I remember the cup hill rapiers/swords in all the 3 musketeers movies, especially movies from France. 😀😀😀
Matt has allergies. Every time he sneezed, the video blacked out for a second.
There appears to be frequent black-outs of the screen/video 4 minutes in.
I mean, correct me if I’m wrong here, but I had interpreted the cup in the cup hilt as a practical production move. Almost like having a shield boss built into your sword both practically and in terms of the smithing operations needed to produce it.
Heh.
Back in the day, I had an RPG character that used a rapier. Of course, none of the 25mm figures could have such a thin blade. So I took a 'buccaneer' figure, cut out his massive cutlass, and installed a small pin, making a cup-hilt guard with Milliput.
If only I could make a full-sized one so easily. 😁
I'd conjecture that films use cup hilts because Californian propmakers looking for historical swords to copy in local museums are more likely to find swords popular in the Spanish Empire in the 17th century than 16th century English or German or French swords.
I think also it's because there were tons of antique cup hilts still around in the early 1900s, and also they were easier for prop makers to make.
@@scholagladiatoria i know for sure, based on some conversation i had with a very famous fight coreographer and olympic fencing master, that in many cases they used cup hilted swords wether because it allowed them to modify modern olympic swords to resemble antiques, for example adding longer quillons to the cup or making an Italian foil guard a little wider and adding a bigger fig shaped pommel to look something alike a transitional rapier, or because actors were thaugt the fundamentals with olympic epees before starting using the proper stage swords, and since the choreographer wanted them to be the most comfortable with the movements to seem the most realistic (even sometimes changing hits or parries as the actors were feeling more keen doing something different) they were given cu hilted weapons as they had the most similar feeling in the hand.
Anyway, this may be just two of the reasons they might had been, he spoke about his own experience and his father's, I'm just reporting what he told me to help me in a research for my degree.
(Hope I managed to write it all correctly and clearly 😅)
Greetings from Italy!
I feel like cup-hilts are just easy to kinda bullshit up for props. (It sure as hell is for artists.) Much easier to finangle up a bowl or dished boss sorta thing and toss it on top of a basic quillon + D-shaped knuclebow than to make a complex swept hilt that also looked aesthetic.
Hey Matt. I think your camera may have issues. Every 2-3 minute there is a flicker and a black vertical line or a blackscreen appear for a second. In this particular video there were also a few seconds where the colours were wrong.
I've noticed the same phenomenon in your latest videos. Perhaps your camera need some service.
Thanks for mentioning Florence! Unfortunately, Florence being in Italy, nobody working there knows anything about arms and armours. They're all about the architecture and the family history, which is quite cool, but it's still sidenote-level information in that type of museum. To me, it's like a tiny Wallace Collection housed in a Florentine-flavoured Sir John Soane Museum. Of course, Stibbert was half British, so that's rather fitting.
As a fencing defense using blade point attacks and defense against other stabbing attacks, the cup hilt fulfills that function more effectively. Without a doubt. In fact, it was a response to the lack of real effectiveness of other hilt models.
Matt, the video keeps getting broken up by black frames or sometimes black with polychrome lines or similar. Weird!
At first I thought I was having mini strokes..
Yes, the first time I've seen this. 🤔
I thought it was just me, came looking through the comments to see if anyone else was seeing it...
Yeah, I've seen it on a couple of his videos now too.
Maybe having issues with his battery? I noticed it as well.
Rule of Cool can be important on something you're likely to never have to actually use anyway.
You have the absolute BEST background for you videos throughout ALL of TH-cam!! Great information as always! Thank you
I own an antique cup hilt and an antique swept hilt rapier and a major difference between the two swords is that the swept hilt has a broader blade (from memory it is 2.5 cm at the hilt of the swept hilt compared to 1.5 cm for the cup hilt). I suspect that this is relatively common (ie rapiers got narrower as time went on) and this makes the wider blade rapier more effective as a cutting weapon (although it is still primarily for thrusting). Slightly different capabilities of the weapon would encourage a slightly different use of the weapon.
The Spanish 1728 "Bilbo" pattern cavalry sword is still my favorite combination of cut-and-thrust and complex hilt. Would love to hear your remarks on it.
On my list of swords to get, I love that it looks like the bastard love child of both a Spanish Rapier and the Bell guard of a sabre, even though it is much earlier than those sabres existed.
does it glow blue in the presence of goblins?
Ditto. I have one on my wall. It's one of my favorite swords to wave around. Very nicely balanced. Still very sharp.
@@samsowden Yes. Yes, it does.
@Scuzzlebutt142 I first knew it as "Spanish broadsword".
I'm studying the spanish rapier structure as I was comissioned to make a highly functional one for softcombat, and this video was a BIG help! Thanks for the through content as always!
I'm so glad to hear you don't intend to stop being Matt Easton any time soon
I kept getting very brief black-screens throughout the video. Anyone else? Or is it me?
Same here. 17:22 has a big glitch many people replay to ensure it's the video and not their system.
The rapier is back 😍 Will we see more videos about the 16th-17th C in the channel lately?
Hi Matt, your point about cuphilts and the Netherlands needs a little more specification. Cuphilts come up in the mid-seventeenth century, like you said. At that point in time the Netherlands are not a whole anymore. You got the Spanish Netherlands and the Dutch Republic. On the Republics side you would be hard pressed to find an cuphilt.
All good points! Style, function and nationalism would influence one's choice of rapier. I suggest that one might also wish to carry a sword that has been passed down through the family. Perhaps an old sword would be rebuilt, a particularly ornate hilt matched with a more modern blade. One of my prized hunting knives belonged to my father, and a valued pocket knife was carried by my grandfather. Thanks for all the hard work you put into your videos.
The D&D fantasy novels of R.A. Salvatore feature a peculiar sword called Charon's Claw with a handle that looks like an upside down skeleton. The pommel is a skull, the hilt a backbone, and the cross guard a pelvis. The legs are bent downward so that the feet rest alongside the skull, and the knees shield the thumb and back of the hand. And a ribcage basket protects the wielder's knuckles. (There is no mention of any arms.) As the blood red blade extends in the other direction from the pelvis, you can imagine what anatomical region it is mean to connote.
Earlier passages describe the sword as a slender once-handed longsword, but more recent books have made it sound more like a heavy hand-and-a-half sidesword or even broadsword.
From what I've seen it's usually depicted as a curved hilt broadsword.
@@allengordon6929 I guess you could call it a hybrid style hilt. It's sort of a half-dome, but comprised of bars in the shape of bones.
I think the swept hilts are some of the most beautiful. The curves and decoration.
I'd have to say, if I was given a choice of cup-hilt vs swept-hilt, I would go for the cup-hilt style, mainly because I like the cup-hilt style and it would provide excellent protection for your hand while using it.
Great info! New subscriber here!
Choosing a Cup Hilted Rapier over a Swept Hilted one? INCONCEIVABLE!!!
Unless you are spanish
You seem a decent fellow!
I think that word does not mean what you think it means!
Grumbletonian heathen!
Anybody want a peanut?
Interesting that you can actually see the difference in wrist rotation is between the two guards.
For easy reference:
Swept: 21:38
Cup: 23:30
Love the content, thanks! The video dropping at times can be distracting.
As Mr. Easton is usually quite fastidious about his production values I suspect this is an Internet upload issue, not him needing a new camera, memory card. software or computer.
Another benefit of the cup hilt is that it is much more ambidextrous than a swept hilt
Why I prefer one as a left hander.
There is a point that I have considered, but not seen much documentation on, and perhaps someone can help. As swept hilts appeared earlier, I've always associated them with the earlier styles of defense where application against various other weapons get some attention. Later defense manuals become preoccupied with duels between mostly identical weapons. So, my theory is that the bars and how they are applied is meant to protect against heavier cutting attacks from arming swords or hafted weapons. As the rapier became more of a duelist's weapon the design changed towards deflecting and controlling other similar swords. I think this could also explain the lengthening of the quillon in the later designs. Once again, fantastic video. I love your work and how generous you are with your study.
Entertaining stuff sir. As someone who loves history in general hearing about this stuff is a lot of fun and I can tell you have a passion for it.
One advantage of a swept hilt is that you can actually look through your guard when thrusting while keeping your whole and arm behind it. A cup or shell hilt can obscure your vision if you try the same motion.
Have you ever had that problem in practice?
Interesting note about the low countries and the seeming prevalence of the cup hilt; It seems that in the early half of the 80 years war, you don't see them at all, but by the midway point (ca. 1600), they start to appear mostly on the 'Spanish'/Southern Low Countries' side, while the side of the United Provinces hardly shows evidence of cup hilts being used, also culturally being closer to various German states than to the French or Spanish (like the Southern parts of the Low Countries were).
Through the Habsburg dynastic conection the spanish influence in south germany/austria in terms of fashion and court ceremonial is also quiet substantial, so "german style" might be more varied aswell.
May be 15 to 20 years ago, i , Brittas boyfriend, was invited? to a meeting of coin collectors. As special guest the curator ? of the coin collection from ,Württembergisches Landesmuseum' was there and hold a speech about coins from Württemberg in late 17th century. The man showed enlarged pictures from coins , showing the same Duke. On the first coin the Duke was shown with large french whig ( Perücke in german), the second coin showed him in armour with short cut natural hair, the third coin again with french whig. What was the reason? With the coins, showing him frech dressed, he wanted to show: I am a modern ruler! The coin , showing him in armour with german hairstyle, was pressed in wartime, the Duke wanted to show: I am a german Duke and will fight the French! A bit out of context, but from the time, Matt Easton speaks in this Video. Coins, dress, hairstyle , sword design, Propaganda was known in every era.
Absolutely great on closing with those final notes on fashion and nationalism.
Great video as always Matt. Do you have a buyer's guide / recommendations? The sword market is a jungle and it is very hard to determine quality of a weapon from a website's pictures and descriptions
I am a student of 'La Verdadera Destreza' And I must say that it is a very interesting and very intelligent video.
Greetings from Academia Da Espada (A Coruña, Spain)
This channel should have 10x more subscribers. It's awesome!
I'm a bit late in this conversation, but it is worth mentioning that a great (and overlooked) advantage of the cup hilt's long straight quillions is to trap the opponent's blade between your blade's forte and your quillion just as one would do with their sail dagger.
best channel for all things sword! thanks for providing this knowledge!
I prefer the shell or pappenheim hilts with the wider but shorter cut and thrust blades, I know the longer narrower blades with cup hilts are technically "better" but that's my preference, I love rapiers 🙂
Having done Italian rapier, while i find swept hilt rapiers more attractive and used a swept hilt myself, I can understand the popularity of cup hilts in HEMA, the swept hilt does not provide anywhere near as much hand protection if your opponent is a dick and plays the hand sniping game.
Thank you for video Laird Easton
I have waited a long time for this topic, after I sold all my cup-hilt rapiers...and a few side-swords...😢 You covered the topic fairly well Matt...a Crash Course in Rapier's ...which are indeed complex, but can offer alot of advantages and disadvantages as well.
Excellent video, as always Matt! Funny side-note, when I got involved in SCA light-weapon practice and needed a safe rapier, I took the blade from an Olympic foil and fitted my cheap "El Cid" sword guard to it. It worked much better than it should have, and being a cheap guard, I didn't care if it got dinged-up (which it really didn't). 😁
Cup hilt any time, use the hilt as a shield, works great vs rapier. VS sabres not so much, but still got the reach advantage.
Loved this video, I'm with Chris below, Swept hilts are beautiful, I also think more practical in anything other than a one on one duel, and even then if the opponent is using a cloak as defense or has a dagger the earlier more 'cut and thrust' (side sword) type rapier might still be better. Bring back "the art of the sword' at the Wallace.
Hi, Albannach (scotsman) here, from alba (scotland), established titles are a scam it literally does not work the way they are telling you and if you try to use these titles in any formal capacity you will be in serious (criminal) legal trouble - the title has actual legal connotations and privileges attached. The title is tied to the estate, not the land itself, it doesn't matter if you own one of the parcels of land they are not tied to the title of the estate and the Lord Lyons will take issue with you regarding this.
ah! rapiers... vraiment beau.
i do prefer swept hilt but give me any kind of them and i am happy.
merci pour la vidéo!
It'd be interesting to see a video about the evolution from side-sword to rapiers to smallswords
Extremely informative video! Thanks for this and clearing up a few misconceptions I had. But that book "The Rapier & Small-Sword: 1460-1820" appears to be rather rare and out of print, at least here in the States, the cheapest price I could find was $350 USD with a high of $699 USD on Amazon!
I feel sexier resting my wrist on a swept hilt idk
Same.
absolutely.
Great video - so glad you’ve come back to rapiers. Fascinating swords and sword culture. I wonder if one style of rapier / guard is more or less associated with main gauche? Or with the use of bucklers?
IIRC, the Main Guache, also referred to as the sail guard dagger, is more commonly used with the Cup Hilt Rapier, and often made as a pair that shared similar decorations.
Bucklers probably more used with the Swept hilt due to giving extra hand protection, but no real huge association there.
@@Scuzzlebutt142 Maine gauche is not specifically sail daggers afaik, but dedicated parrying daggers generally.
And no, parrying daggers gradually supplanted bucklers (at least with rapiers) pretty much regardless of rapier type. Parrying daggers tend to pair better with the defensive methods of rapiers than bucklers.
I gotta say, as a rapierist, I actually like the simpler but symetrical hilts. The saxon double two port rapier is one of my favorite design. It looks really nice and is really all you need. Italian ring hilts are always my favorite, but I found that if used properly, a thrusting sword only needs good point control and a cross guard. Its nice to have extra bits of metal to protect your hand, but a well practiced practitoner of Capo Ferro, or even some small sword systems would do just fine with only a cross guard.
I read that first sentence wrong and had to double take
@@runningcrabburps 😂 bruh, read carefully. 😬😬😬😬
Thanks Matt great video on rapiers! So what type of rapier would the French musketeers have used in your opinion? Swept hilted or small swords? It's still unclear to me
I have to say, Matt, that I always enjoy the expertise, based on actual historical information, you bring to these subjects is awesome. I also like your speaking style: I suspect you are a good professor. I have a really weird QUESTION: - - > I don't know if you have ever played "medieval" (fantasy or otherwise) pen-and-paper role-play games, but if you have, which one has the best combat system that simulates actual weapons and armor ??
Can you look at "boca de caballo" hilts, sometime? (1728 Spanish, their similarity to Brescian hilts, etc.)
I prefer cup hilts, when I was rapier fighting i developed a style the relied heavily on punch blocking thrusts with the bowl.
Another point about the symmetry of the cup hilt- when you present the sword forward and your hand is covered and can't be seen by the opponent, you can change the hand position without them seeing it so they might do something that you can counter that they wouldn't normally do
I have a theory that you're mention of rotating a cuphilt versus a swepthilt reminds me of.
Many sword guards develop flares or balls at the end of them I theorize this is in part because it makes the sword cut better. Why? Because it adds mass away from the center of rotation which causes objects to resist turning. Think of an ice skater who has their hands extended and spins slow and then draws their hands in and spins faster. Curved swords resist twisting on their own due to the nature of the curve naturally putting Mass outside the center of rotation straight blades don't have this. Spin a straight blade with no guard versus one with a long guard that has weight at the end of it and you will immediately notice that the sword with the guard will resist twisting more. The effect that is if you're cut does not have perfect Edge alignment a sword with less Mass away from the center of rotation is more likely to twist and pull itself out of a cut rather than one that resists that twisting and the energy still continues into the cut.
Cup hilt* swept hilt*
@@TristanBehrens thank you
@@asa-punkatsouthvinland7145 no worries
Possibly, but you may be think it through to much. The biggest reason I've found is that if you trap someones blade between your blade and quillons, and you have a swell or ball at the end, they can't slide it out, they have to get you to release the pressure on the blade.
@@Scuzzlebutt142 having multiple purposes doesn't negate any one purpose. I did state "in part" I didn't say it was the only, or even primary, reason for the balls/flares
Asfor trapping a curved C shaped guard works better than a straight | shaped guard; flares/balls are not the only solution.
But to reduce spin for a straight blade the only way is to increaseass away from the axis of rotation.
But to test my theory I have cut with the same straight, double edged blade mounted with no guard, a simple straight guard & a straight guard with balls. I could definitely feel a difference between the 3; the balls did help stabilize the blade.
Some historic longswords have pointed guards for stabbing with; like those shown in Fiore & Tallhoffer. Many later longswords have bave balls/flares. Why give up the offensive capability of points?As a gross simplification very early longswords often had wider cutting blades & many later longswords had slender & pointed blades to emphasize the thrust. The balls/flares lessen the effectiveness of the guard when used to stab when in close & half-swording. But the balls/flairs do help eliminate spin & stabilize the cut which makes the cut more likely to bite; especially with thinner light blades.
Again watch an ice skater spin; arms extended & they spin slow, bring arms in they spin easier thus faster.
Armor and fashion often mimic each other. Look at the Peascod breast plate and doublet of England as opposed to the German and Italian armor and fashion. It’s a fascinating study!
An important historical point is that the Spanish cup hilt was used extensively in combat by Spanish forces, literally around the world - and when up against opponents who used weapons and techniques not well known to Europeans (i.e;, Japanese, Philippine, Aztec, Inca, etc) the cup hilt with its extra protection and focus on thrusting into enemies more used to slashing / clubbing would have been (and was) easier to train one in the use of fairly quickly, and was very effective against the non-European fighters in the Americas and the Pacific basin. Going up agains an Aztec with one of their ferocious war clubs really didn't require much fencing finesse.
I LOVE the ideas of rapiers. An excellent show to watch with ALL kinds of superb acting and all kinds of period action, is Alatriste. Its 7 books crammed in to one film, and if Scholo can do a review of the fighting, I think he would be impressed :D
I'd love to learn how to use these competently.
Adorea Olomouc has done some excellent short films using these too :D
Magnificent historical fiction series, sadly still unfinished.
Debonair Spaniard: cup-hilted protects you more; it's symmetrical so you can wield it better and it's stab-centered, witch is the most efficient way to kill.
Bitter British: not stylish enough
Swept Hilts look so elegant!
Enjoyed the analysis.
This is probably my Iberian bias speaking, but I prefer the cup-hilt rapier. Also, I'm a big fan of Zorro.
My favourite hero and I believe that cup-hilt rapier is the most beautiful sword ever and as a rapier very difficult to handle
A point perhaps worth a mention regarding the cultural differences in hilt Cup v bar.. I wonder if, weather, and ease of cleaning/maintaining the sword are anything to do with it.
When I, as an English man, look at a cup hilt rapier. I think of rain funneling down the cup and in to the scabbard. I think of large shiny surfaces to keep polished, clean, and rust free.
Although the rapier was worn low and almost horizontal, it would collect crap whilst worn.
I see a swept hilt as fairly easy to maintain.
So, if wearing a sword is 90% of its life, then cleaning and polishing is 9.9%.
Just started the vid: my guess- more popular in movies because it's easier for a prop department to bang out a 'good enough' model. Cheapest Olympic foil. Cheap tin bowl with a cross piece glued on. No finicky curves and swirls.
Thanks for the video, it made my evening
I wonder how much the sword's technical difference came in play versus fashion and trainers that are availlable.
If your friends and teacher use a Cup-hilted or another model, I bet you would too.
The different rotational mechanics aren't a bad thing, per se. The lower, more outside ward Matt mentioned with the swept hilt means that the most common movement that will require a very, very fast rotation is the parry toward the inside line. The asymmetry of the swept hilt actually assists with that, as the outer guard is significantly heavier. Fencing with an asymmetric guard in the 'wrong' hand, though, definitely becomes more difficult, as the guard fights you in the same movement.
The 16C Cup Hilt Rapier was Captain Hook's original sword in the cartoon.
In the movie Hook we don't see him using a rapier at all. More of a foil I think. The one that killed Rufio.
Smallsword
@@Wolf-Wolfman The sword that killed Rufio. Not the hidden sword or basket hilted one. The all silver one. That looked like a foil
@@robertpatter5509 Smallsword. Not actually a bad one, either, as far as films go. with a disc type shell and neat plain silver look.
Without fail, in my rapier class I always get the blade caught in the basketwork. For that reason alone I will be buying a cup hilt rapier.
Based on what this video said I pretty much would come to the conclusion that against lighter cuts and strikes which do not really have much force or power behind them the cup hilt is better but against heavier and more powerful of cuts or strikes the swept hilt provide more protection (or at least that is in terms of the concussive force of a strike crushing your hand)
The almost horizontal carry, is just begging for a slapstick comedy routine.
I think the complaints in some courts were just becouse of that. I can't imagine the hilarity of dozens of men trying to mingle about with their long "tails" bashing into everything and everyone.
@@anttilehto2628 That, and tripping. Elizabeth banned swords over a certain length, citing the reason that the gentry/aristocracy kept increasing their sword lengths to show off, and stepping on and tripping on them as they trailed too close to the ground.
Hey Matt. Hands, palm downward is Second not Terz. Apart from that, very informative and entertaining video, as always. Cheers.
I've got the 1960 version.
The series 3.
1495 engine, twin carbs, overdrive.
Zorro TV series of the 50s and 60s from Disney made The Cup and Hilt the most recognized and Iconic Sword ever. Every kid knew the Zorro Sword when they seen it.
Re. the inconvenience of wear: Early COVID measures! "6 feet of personal space, dude!" 🤣
The cup may offer better protection, but the swept hilt is undoubtedly much more elegant, and elegance in a civilian weapin like the rapier is extremely important. The thing will hang at your side 90% of the time, it must be in harmony with your outfit.
"You'd be surprised how detrimental a poor choice of fashion can be. Take this dress: it may be all the rage now, but in a very short time it can become tiresome, an affront to the eyes." - Garak. A humble tailor
Swoopty-swoop trumps chili bowl as a fashion statement.
Very nice video and good explanation. I would have also liked to hear how the fencing is different with different rapiers. Did the guard affect the fencing style? Would be nice to see examples.
That bit of talk about the durability of cup vs swept hilts got me to thinking about something everyone has probably noticed about fantasy weapons. How feasible is it to have gems set into the hilt and/or pommel of a weapon meant to see actual combat? I know that it would be quite easy to put gems on something purely ceremonial since it will never actually be used to strike anything, but what about all of those gem decorations on fantasy weapons that are depicted being used in real combat? Would it be possible (within reason), or would any gem on a weapon end up lost or destroyed?
fancy decorated swords have definitely seen combat. Where the decorations are and how they're done affects durability and usability. Fantasy swords often have a stone inlaid at the middle of the crossguard, which is fine since no blade should hit there (your thumb and or hand would be gone anyway). Sides of the pommel is also common and that is also fine, but probably more likely to break. Still, if the gems break or not has no meaning if it's a life or death situation.
Broadly speaking, not very. Extremely few functional swords were inlaid with gems, and very few at all-including ornamentals-up until the 1600s and 1700s. Even then, it was far more common in India and West Asia than it ever was in Europe, where they might stud the entire pommel and/or scabbard in gems. In reality, while plenty of precious stones are harder than iron or steel, they are often far less durable to being struck (knock a diamond at the right angle and it will shatter), and even if not struck directly, that energy travels throughout the sword. While it depends somewhat on the type of weapon, where the stone is set into it (pommels might be used to strike or parry, guards encounter a _lot_ of hard forces, etc), and what sorts of forces it is encountering (eg other side-arms versus polearms), other forms of decoration were generally preferred.
However, there are some outliers-a few arming and longswords with pommels made _completely_ out of rock crystal, and a couple of high-end swords encrusted with a gem or two among the royalty of the Late Middle Ages Holy Roman Empire. And there are the famous Migration Era swords with garnet cloisonne'. I have seen a few knives and daggers whose _entire hilts_ were a single piece of red coral, albeit, how functional those pieces were is _highly_ suspect.
@@NevisYsbryd if the stones are just inset, I doubt it affects function, just the durability of the decoration itself.
@@atom8248 It depends on how much it protrudes and if it breaks. If the stone breaks, that can compromise the weight or structural integrity of the hilt which can affect its usage as a tool, depending.
If you are referring to the coral pieces that I mentioned, they were not inset; the _entire_ hilt was made of a single piece of coral (aside from the tang). Some had coral 'quillons,' and several of them had branches of coral coming off of the 'pommel'-not very functional ergonomically. That said, they were mostly knives, with some debatably qualifying as daggers or _very_ small swords, and were certainly possessions of the affluent, thus making any use likely infrequent and thus ergonomics less of a concern.
That said, if we go into knives, I have seen far more instances of stone inlay or entire segments (or entire hilts) of stone, mostly varieties of quartz (rock crystal, amethyst, etc). Generally not _combat_ knives, though, more in the line of upper class/caste edc or culinary utensils. The only part of a sword not at especially high risk of being struck is the handle, which would present its own concerns for having stone set into it besides that the hand would be covering it up while in use.
@@NevisYsbryd
I've seen the coral hilts before and totally agree on that point.
small inset gems in crossguard and to an extent the ricasso of a sword probably has negligable effect on performance and durability
Seems clear you want the cup style if you're dueling?
Might just be my connection, but the video seemed a bit choppy for a video about rapiers.
But interesting to think about the differences in hilt styles and why.
I thought that my monitor was dying, checked it with my phone and got the same thing.
Problem with the camera maybe
Cup hilt rapiers essentially have a built in buckler.
your channel is always a lot of interesting fun
Swept Hilt look way more elegant. Culp hilt reminds me of some kitchen tool :)
I love both of those rapiers, but I wish they were "sharps"! And I didn't know that the cup-hilt rapier was THAT late of a development!
Coming late to this one, sorry...
About "national" styles you do not mention Scandinavian countries (Denmark and Sweden were prominent in that period if I am not mistaken). Were they simply following other styles (German, I guess?) or did they have styles of their own?
Yo! I own exactly the same Kvetun cuphilt. Must say it s very heavy on the tip, and very difficult to keep the center with. that s why I d never use it for Destreza, also too long. Destreza rapiers are around 1m long. Keeping rust in my house 😄
My Ropera is 1.2m and my style is destreza...
@@gabrielwolf7534 oh that is very interesting, by 1m i mean the blade is 1m max, normally. that kvetun blade is 1.10 or 1.15. i m a 1,75m man, find it unconfortable to keep the center
@@gabrielwolf7534 Historically Spanish swords in the rapier period were limited by law to 40 inches in the blade, basically a metre.
Fascinating video, thank you!