Thank you for equating this to fighting with 2 sticks. Dual welding is dual welding, each weapon type brings specific nuances unique to that weapon to the fight. Been training and fighting in "dual wield" formats since 1982. From SCA, Adrian Empire, Renaissance, some time training from/with friends in AMA, WMA, HEMA, amongst others, including non weaponed combat formats/forms (eastern and western) from 1978 forward. Prior was boxing and wrestling from 1970 forward courtesy of my father. I am still a student and have learned how much I still need to study practice and learn. I believe a very serious misconception of dual wielding is: one weapon/hand for offense and one for defense. Don't cheat yourself nor give your opponent an advantage. Dual wielding any matched weapons in theory is extremely simple. It takes years of training to excel, and with any dual wielding, it looks sloppy as crap most of the time if approached incorrectly. Before I work with anyone choosing to dual wield, I insist they spend 6 months to a year fighting single weapon "off handed" for at least 60% or more of their practice. The remainder is fighting with your usual choice of weapon and shield or long sword, "off handed," and switching handedness after every victory. Once this has been done they are ready to bring it all together. If you do not train mind and body to fight with your "off hand" you will only have a single sided approach. At this juncture you are simultaneously fighting single weapon with both hands. Your mind and body flows and performs equally offensively or defensively with either hand in that split second as the fight dictates the need. Your foot work is the primary defense and shield work. That is not to say your weapons are not used defensively but differently as the weapon they are if you defend single weapon with either hand, body positioning always supporting the movement fluidly, setting the offense up with either weapon at the same moment. The trick is taking the single weapon combat in either hand and bringing them together so each hand supports the other throughout., Including footwork. Be it obliques movements so body positioning "re-chambers" the weapon through natural motion, countering the added potentially odd weight, or slowness of the ax. Just as such movement creates greater opportunity and faster strike opportunities in single weapon combat, it is absolutely necessary in ax fighting. I also don't see ax fighters spending anywhere near enough time on hooking, getting hooked & bound, the limited variety/methods of releases available and the avenues of attack they set up for and against you. Experienced fighters will set the hook up and control you with that bind. If you don't train equally on how to release from the variety of binds that can be used against you, the ax is a detriment. The argument, was it done historically has gone on for some time notwithstanding viking sagas that may be interpreted as dual wield or single weapon being wield in either hand throughout a single fight. my 50 cents....
Axes were also used by the Eastern Romans (byzantines) and many Goth/Saxons/Normans/Franks etc. The Eastern Roman Axe was used by the infantrty with a shield and it was recommended that it also have a small point in the opposite side of the axe to penetrate helmets/lamellar etc. So more like an axe with a small pick. Other axe variations were the 2-bladed axe & the single blade axe. It was called Tzikourion from the latin Securis & the word still survives into Greek as Τσεκουρι -Tsekouri/Tzekouri.
Well dual wielding without developed dual wielding skills will result in penalties, so hopefully the enemy picks up the axe in confusion and ends up with less attack points.
you don' give him an extre axe if he is dead with an axe stick into his skull XD and yes if you miss the axe is probably far behind him or at his feet and in that case, bend to grab it is a pretty dangerous move.... beacause the axe thrower didn't juste wait while his axe was flying and is probably charging you use the distraction he made by throwing a F***** axe towards you
tbh having anything in your off hand (specially in an unarmored fight) a stick, a stool, a cloak or indeed an axe even if you hold it at the wrong end, must bring you massive advantage over single hand/single weapon option. I've been thinking about this, in the light of the most recent islamic terror attack in London with knives. Having your hard shell laptop rucksack with the laptop in it covering the lines and you extend it away from your body...congratulations you just reinvented the buckler. Better than nothing imho.
I think "Vikings" had Ragnar fighting with two axes at some point. For dual wielding axes I suppose one should be thrown (like francisca), then one used for melee. Or you throw both, then run.
Yes! There was several scenes with different characters. Ragnar was dual wielding swords, I think. Fighting with dual wielding weapons but using them for the same action instead of using them for different actions in different directions. I believe dual wielding shields, throwing them both and charging is more effective.
There is one historical depiction that I know of, showing double-wielded axes, on the Glamis Manse Cross. Unfortunately for its credibility, though, the figure wielding them is a centaur... (PS: I am surprised that nobody else has mentioned this)
I don't think I've heard of a second axe behind a shield, but I have definitely heard of a seax being used in such a way, so I suppose it could theoretically work with a particularly spiky axe as well.
Devin Stromgren it was the spear. Swords or axes were secondary weapons if not two handed axes. Spear and shield were the usual choice. Swords were expensive. You had a weapon for range and obe for close combat. So a spear and a sax, a spear and an axe, a spear and a sword, a danish two handed axe and a sax, etc. a sword combined with an axe would be not that effective.
I love the fact that you are able to state that this wasn't really done historically, but still go through with entertaining whether or not it could be a practical approach to combat. Too many people would quickly dismiss this as a "no this was never done and you shouldn't do it" sort of thing, but I think there is a lot of value in toying with the idea and demonstrating it, if only to see the WHY behind the fact that it wasn't used (or was rarely used) historically. Bring on more of these sorts of videos!
You could probably dual-wield axes using some escrima-like figure 8 technique, but unless you're trained at that, you're probably better off with just one axe. It takes a lot of coordination. Still, I'd rather have an axe shield combination.
there was an older RPG I played that made the distinction between axe types. The woodsmans axe was slow and heavy. I know IRL a "Wood axe" can come in many different versions. The game version was the classic firemans axe shape. IIRC the executioners axe hit like a truck, but it also left you open to attack on the next turn. So I guess they at least tried with that one.
Matt, you are absolutely right about Kung fu...your discussion of dual axes versus spears is also spot on. Baguazhang has a weapon that is very closely associated with it called alternatively Deer Antler Knives or Axes and Mandarin Duck Knives or Axes. They are were explicitly designed for the purpose of hooking, locking and cutting when fighting against spearmen. They were favored by students of this style as personal weapons that can be concealed on the body when serving as a bodyguard.
I have to say. Fighting with two axes, utilizing all those options hooking, turning one axe around to defend with a "stick" and just those fluent motions of defending and attacking at the same time, would make for great visuals for a movie.
I have to say, the moment I saw you locking the axe onto the upper edge of that shield, I saw the main reason I'd want two axes. One crazy double axeman in the middle of a battle of men with shields and swords would be a terrifying change of pace to encounter. He takes momentary control of your shield as only an axe can, and then hits you around it with another one. You'd have to be very quick attacking his arm or axe haft to stop it.
Throw one of the axes for some psychological damage. If your opponent is daft or unlucky enough to be without a shield, you might even hit him with the thrown axe. Win-win.
Thanks for the video. Re Kung Fu etc. two 'cleavers' is pretty common but axes aren't really. Best I know the most common dual-wielding weapons for chinese martial was the hudiedao (a matched pair of cleavers) in the south and the lujiaodao and/or fu tao (crescent knives/hook swords) in the north. I don't think it's an accident all three of those weapons have relatively good hand protection, knucklebow+ at least. I've played with tomahawks in the off hand and pretty much agree with everything you say. In most situations there are plenty of other things I'd rather have in the off-hand (shields are very nice, even tiny ones) but it definitely has uses. By the end of the video you listed many of them, and even included the idea that just because you have two you don't necessarily have to wield both at once, but I don't think you really mentioned throwing. Take a surprise strike from just outside of melee distance and still have an axe in hand as you move in behind it. Anyway, great video as usual, cheers!
I'm here because I pretty much always learn something from your videos ;-) Having said that, I have a slightly unhealthy fascination with axes, so thanks for this one in particular!
Ok, I actually have a question now. Using a second axe as a "parrying stick": Wouldn't that leave your hand terribly vulnerable? I kinda winced just watching you holding it like that.
What if you were to use the defending axe in a sort of "harrying" manner as well...as a boxer might with a lead jabbing hand...perhaps to give light thrusts and feints in addition to defending/hooking?
On the point of axes (also other one handed weapons that aren't swords e.g. maces) how do you carry them around obviously you have sword suspensions for scabbards but I really woud like to know how they would be carried.
Scenarios for wielding two axes: You, a true Scandinavian, are fighting against an impure Norman axeman with your axe and shield combo. The axeman destroys your shield with a chop, but you hook his with your axe beard. In the same tempo, you murder his face with a push, thrusting the top of the axe head. Quickly you pull your axe back, but because your instincts made you stupid when you saw movement on your peripheral, you accidentally rehooked his shield and it splintered due to the force of your axe beard retracting from the Norman's pulp-like face. Seeing another adversary rushing towards you and seeing the Norman's axe stuck in your damaged shield, you reluctantly pull out the Norman axe, hoping to hook this barbarian's spear and felling two soldiers in a day. You pray to the gods, hoping that your days are not numbered. *begin d20 die roll*
Dual axes is the ultimate way to run through a melee, parrying, hooking and striking. It's all about distance and aggressively CLOSING distance to remove the opponent's advantage. Hook and bind their weapon and charge in on them. Knock them over. Longswords and other lengthy weapons are useless if both your timing AND luck are good. Finally, and here's a dirty trick I learned in the heat of a match, if you and another axe wielder hook axes and get into a momentary tugging match: reverse the force and punch them in the chest with the head of your axe. If you give up on the tug-of-war just one instant😊 sooner and thrust forward, your opponent will not only be completely off guard but also off balance. It's bloodthirsty and brutal, up close and personal with two axes and that's why it's my favorite fighting style.
What about choking up 2/3 the way on the handle with the none dominant hand? You can still chop and hook, but it will also protect the underside of your wrist and lower forearm for blocks. This seems better than reversing the axe so the head is under the hand. Thoughts? Cheers Matt!
One weird peccadillo I found with using two axes. I found it much easier to use two axes if they both have much shorter hafts, like hatchets. Odd because I don't find the same thing when using two versus one stick of the same length as an axe haft.
Brotherhood of the Wolf is under-rated, I am so glad you are familiar! There are numerous fight scenes and weapons which are somewhat outlandish, but the choreography uses them creatively, and in a way that still mixes in some viable martial arts. Also, the composition/storytelling is done well, using a loose historical basis.
I am training reenactment and i have recently played with dual wielding axes in duels. In line battles they are of little use, unless you are in a flanking role or another role that requires a lot of running. I use two relatively light axes which roughly about the same size, i use 1 axe for defence and one for attack though which one is which depends on the opponent and his weapon/attacks. Depending on the opponent i am either on the offensive or defensive. I always watch my environment and foot work so that i can move around since i dont have a shield. One of the most regular things i do is that i am looking for an opportunity when the opponent attacks to use the hook on the axe to lock down his/her weapon, get in close (especially if it is something like a longsword or spear) and attack with the other. My main inspiration for using them this way is from the "First Law" books where several characters use a rapier in one hand and a parrying dagger in the other. Often we get into their perspective and the book tells in detail how they use their dagger and rapier in unison. It has had some success, but i am looking for ideas to improve this fighting style.
I have worked with axes and axe style combat for almost 18 years and wondered about your opinion on fighting with different holds on the axes, since i do "dual wield" them so to speak. I use my shorter bladed, lighter hafted axe for striking and a fair amount of parrying (as much as you have with your hand at the base of the axe) and my longer bladed heavier axe is held at the head for parrying as my hand is guarded by the extended beard(Arms and armour type c axe). I use punch and moving parries as well as guarding and hooking in my techniques. My studies in the axe come from glima, kali, and irish shillelagh. I mostly use the shillelagh style for my off hand however i incorporate a mix of various styles to make it a viable offense and defense. Just wanted to know your opinion mate.
How much did people fight as individuals back then as opposed to fighting as a group? I could see someone with two axes hooking the shields of two guys facing him while his buddies stab both of the opponents with spears. If he had only one buddy who wasn't busy, his left hand ax could hook the side of his left opponent's shield and rotate that opponent enough to prevent a good counterstroke while his right hand ax hooking the shield of the opponent on his right would create enough opening for a single buddy to attack the opponent. Then, he and his buddy would be two-against-one on the remaining opponent.
My question is, how effective would martial arts be with 2 axes so something like boxing, or muay thai, were you add in leg kicks or maybe even kick boxing?
Thank you! The Axe and sword video prompted this question for me. :) I've never seen this outside of Wushu (and quite rare) and fantasy. As cool as it was to see Dwalin mowing through orcs with double axes, or read about Li Kui kicking all sorts of ass, or order the Tomahawk unit from Age of Empires III doing this, the limitations of this you illustrated quite well. And of course this also applies to maces and hammers-as much as I like having my D&D dwarf with a hammer in one hand and an axe in another, it wouldn't be ideal. The axe-shield combo dates back to the Sumerians and Egyptians, and was still being used by some native American groups (in the west) and South African groups (the Swazi especially) in the 19th century.
A character from the the Song Dynasty novel, "The Water Margin", named Li Kui (Black Whirlwind), used double axes, and perhaps as a consequence, double axes remain common in some Chinese martial arts.
Could you please make a video describing the advantages of different axes and tomahawks? It would also be great if you could cover the difference between axes and tomahawks? Love your channel man. keep up the good work.
Question: If you're going into battle, and your only options of weapons are a two-handed greatsword and a shield, would you one-hand the greatsword with the shield or would you give up the shield for two-handing the sword?
do you have the armor that the two handed greatsword was almost always used with? two handed weapons like greatswords weren't popular until armor was protective enough that shields were unnecessary, so if the armor is available then no question really, if that level of armor is not available, it becomes a much more difficult question, but wielding the greatsword similar to a short one-handed spear in conjunction with a shield might be manageable.
Vin of Steel This is just my tuppence (based on a few years of martial arts and swordsmanship practice). Go for just the sword - if you have even the slightest incling on how to use it. A two hander has great defensive and offensive capabilities, even in relatively cramped quarters, when used right. If you have no training whatsoever and just need to get out (and there's some slim chance of doing so) then just a shield might be a better option. Unless you are a monster of muscle, don't take both. And even if you have muscle to back it up, I would not recommend it - two hander for the win in that case.
Jon Goat Depends on the shield. A strapped on kite shield, sure - well maybe, but bucklers, round shields and others are generally gripped in the boss and even if holding a weapon is possible (like a dagger with a buckler) it does limit your movement of the weapon. With anything bigger than a buckler I think the awkwardness of it all takes away the defensive gain. But hey, this seems like a fun area to do some experiments!
In Vikings Season 1 and 2, Jarl Borg is shown to fight with 2 axes. Its interesting to watch, being able to hook a shield with 1 axe and attack with the other in one fluid movement is a plus
I train using two hatchets (short handles) for several reasons 1. ambidextrous training skills should you sustain an injury to one arm, 2. being short in stature, it is preferable to get in close and "choke" any swing, and 3. it has a psychological affect of which swing to defend against. As a Maori, traditional defense was in the footwork, and with a short handled club the point of balance is better for strikes.
I suggest the film Bang Rajan (and Bang Rajan 2 I guess) to anyone interested in dual wielding. A thai film about a village defending against the Burmese army, based on historical facts. The film features a "berserker" dual wielding axes while riding a water buffalo. If I remember correctly, in the second movie there is a whole squad of them. Did I mention that all of the "normal" thai fighters fight with slim dual swords? (Elven style.) The burmese army I think is less exotic, sword and buckler. But I am not sure, it's been a while. A must see anyway!
the Chinese Ming dynasty (14th to 17th) century novel about the Song dynasty (around 12th century) called the Water Margin features a character called the Black Whirlwind. The Black Whirlwinds weapons of choice were two short axes (likely held closely to the axehead, giving him short range but greater speed and control).
they called his style "Three Axes" because he would execute his attacks in trios. for example strike, block, strike. strike, strike, strike. block, strike, block.
Looking it up in English might be difficult. The Chinese search terms you could look for are 李逵 (Li Kui - the Name of the Black Whirlwind), 黑旋风 (Hei Xuan Feng - Black Whirlwind), 三板斧 (San Ban Fu - Three Axes), 水浒传 (Shui Hu Zhuan - The Water Margin)
Hey I'm not sure if you've covered this topic in a previous video but what is your opinion on ambidextrous swordsmen and the importance of being capable of using both hands as a sword hand? I've noticed that many seem to have a signature sword hand is there a reason for this such as perfecting one dominate hand instead of wasting time on the other
Troy I'm pretty sure he's covered this before, either in its own video or during some of the ones he made during the period when his right hand was injured. I think he made one on left-handed swordsmen around that time, and he may have gone into detail on ambidextrousness in it.
I wonder how much FMA does Matt know, I was quite impressed to see it mentioned. I practiced it for a while, so, i quickly figured out that "doble baston" (read in spanish) techniques would fit well. What I thought, when talking about different weapons, was axe and short sword. Also, in my mandirigma (warrior, in tagalog) mindset, setting one hand for offense and the other for defense is wrong. I learned to used both hands to do everything, so the mandirigma has really 2 strong hands.
If I'm right the Polynesians or Philippinos had a 2-axe martial art or style. The berserker in For Honor uses it for their animations. (Edit: Nvm, he addresses it briefly.)
Great video as always! I've used tomahawks in kali and messed around with one in each hand; it's my favourite weapon. Wether it's plausible or not, I don't know...but it's certainly a lot of fun training with two!
I'm still subscribed but the notifications of some of your newer videos were delayed, but the problem appears to have resolved itself. You may want to make sure to remind people to check the channel page from time to time, if they don't hear anything. Might slip their minds. Keep it up Matt, thanks.
Main hand/spare hand seems weird to me. I prefer on hand/off hand personally. I rock a 28 ounce Estwing framing hammer in my on hand and a 24 ounce SOG tomahawk (the one with holes in the head) in my off hand. You don't really realize how much energy it costs to swing the both of them around together until you get them in hand. My biggest piece of advice I can give you for using heavy melee weapons is this: if you experience discomfort, pain, or even strain on your joints while training, you must drop your training speed to 10% and do the action again a few dozen times. Then try to figure out what part of your form or action is causing that problem, and then modify your swings to get rid of the strain. If you strain your joints while training, you can destroy them in the heat of the moment. You will feel really dumb going so slow, but it really is the best way to understand how you are doing it wrong. I'm no martial artist, just a weapons enthusiast/hobbyist.
very good points. here in the US, between the Natives, and the frontier men, techniques became well developed. usually with a knife and tomahawk (the two things you wouldn't be caught dead without on the frontier.) but, also I agree, having some Eskrima training, two hand axes fits almost perfectly with Kali/Eskrima. many American instructors have Incorporated them in their teachings. and in the case of the hawk, you can take the blade off, and you basically have a non lethal Eskrima stick option.
I do believe the Franks did it times. They had fairly light heads and short hafts as I recall. And carried a brace of them as they also used them as projectiles. And you're right the Chinese do indeed have two ax styles. Though every demonstration I've seen has fairly heavy heads and choke up to right behind the ax head. Which is another thing you can do, using the haft to protect your forearm. I do agree using one with a shield is a better option.
the romans made all the legionars learn to use the shield in the left and the gladius and pilum in the right so did the greeks with their opliti i think only people that didn't fight in formation had warriors using shield in the right and the weapon in the left
Fabio Varrà It seems to me that there would be an advantage to having someone who carried his shield in the right hand standing on the right flank of a formation, particularly if the formation was several ranks deep. That way an enemy who got around on that side would face a solid row of shields just like an enemy on the left flank, The alternative would be a side of the formation that was dangerously open and vulnerable.
the problem would be that u would still have an hole in the front shield wall like that, far more dangerous to me because you can manuvre to protect your right side from enemy attack, while an hole in the shield wall would always be a downfall but you are right on the right flank being the most vulnerable side of a formation like a phanlanx, and to be the first man on the roght flank was a position of great honor for the greeks because you wouldn't have anyone shielding ur right side the romans resolved this problem because the scutum would protect entirly the soldier using it
Fabio Varrà Yes there would be a gap at the front right corner but that gap would have the swords or spears of two men in it. If everyone carries his shield in his left hand, the shields of the men on the left flank are useless. A Roman century fought as eight rows of eight men. A Greek phalanx was usually at leasr three to five men deep. It seems strange that they would fight with one entire side of their formations vulnerable if they had men who would actually be more suited from birth to defend on that side.
I was just about to comment about tomahawks crossing the line between wood axe and fighting axe when you got to that point in the video. It's one of the reasons I love them. The larger of your two axes appears to have the same sort of cross section as a tomahawk as well, a little too thick to be a pure fighting axe.
I would love to see a video focusing on two knives and what the advantages and disadvantages would be. What context it may be useful if any, etc. Specifically Karl Tanner from Game of Thrones looked very fancy but I've always questioned the effectiveness against the bastard sword and whatnot. Would be a fun venture anyway. I like learning stuff. Thanks for the awesome vids Matt!
The best argument I have for duel wielding is the fact that you can deliver a fatal blow from either hand more as a posed to a standard shield weapon combo
This depends on the length of the axes. For example 2 short axes vs 2 swords, the sword have the reach advantage so we all know who the victor is (depends ALSO on the skill of the wearer). But 2 long and very light axes vs 2 normal lengthed 1 hand swords, again. The longest weapon has a reach advantage over the other. And it depends on the "weight" of the weapon too. So the table is turned. Axes is the victor
One axe could also be thrown. Believing as I do in being prepared for more than one situation, I would go shield and axe in case I encounter missiles, a very likely probability in a battlefield situation. Though I also would want a backup weapon, so either sword and shield with axe as backup or more likely axe and shield with some kind of a sword for backup, would want the sword perhaps a bit smaller so the extra weight does not become too much of an issue.
George Bennett Right. Interesting that hasn't spread to the greater Commonwealth. I'm Australian and that's the 1st time I'm hearing it... Tho that just illustrates my point: Clocking someone in the helmet (either of them) ain't fighting dirty, it's fighting smart...
Yeah that is abit weird. In general I find the Aussies and the Brits to be closer in terms of vocab than the Aussies / Brits and the Yanks. I agree with you that it's fighting smart, I don't give a fuck who you are if you take an axe in the bollocks you've lost the fight.
I think that the ability to hook would be the biggest potential advantage of twin axes -- especially if you practiced and trained specifically for it. Basically you could make every parry a hook & pull action using the beard of the axe in an attempt to wrench your opponent off balance (and potentially closer to you) as the other axe strikes. And since it could be done with either weapon your opponent couldn't be sure which way you're going to go.
Over here in the "Mericas", our people used double axe even though the axe knife combo was preferred. Our shield made from buffalo rawhide was tough enough to repel bullets. Native martial arts
@scholagladiatoria - yes, there are Kung Fu Wushu styles that utilise double-wielding. Lots of, actually. Sabers, daggers, swords, axes, mauls, even whip-chains, you name it. It's all for show in the present day, really, but it's still based on some real, old styles I believe. Been doin' Kung Fu for 4 years now, fun as heck :)
I always seems to miss, in the discussion of axes or hammers or other heavy-headed weapons, a discussion of the option to choke up on the handle to just under the weighted end. While this does decrease chopping or hitting power, it dramatically increases velocity. Choke up on an axe and throw a jab with it - see how fast and aggressive you can be? Is there any historical precedent for axes or hammers being used in this way?
A thing you could only do with 2 axes: hook one to another beard to beard and swing them with double range, like nunchaku. That would probably work once (maybe). Axe style pommel strike, to end them rightly.
Duel axes can work quite well for quick aggressive attacks against people on the flanks of the shield wall. One axe smashes into the shield and the second into the head shoulder or leg of your enemy.
It occurs to me that it might be very effictive used similar to butterfly swords - doing the double attack where one weapon parries the attack while the other goes for the opponent weapon hand .
Question about axes: Did they ever develop any with hand guards? If not why and would (or could) a hand guard be designed to help reduce some of the defensive weaknesses of the axe as a weapon?
After some google-fu I found Li Kwei's Double Axes in White Crane style kung-fu, Meihuaquan Double Axes, a Southern Double-Axe form in Shaolin Wudang... Examples are out there but I would balk at labeling them as effective other than in a general fitness and conditioning sense.
something that you didn't mention, is that sometimes hooking things can be accidental and not advantageous (like if both were not expecting it and you both have to rethink your now entangled motions) and in that case having a second sharp thing would be quite handy.
Matt, your mentioning of shields in this video brought a question to mind; do you know when shield use first started to appear in history, and by who and where? I would assume it would be pretty early in the piece. Cheers!
Very very early human prehistory, I should think. I have never looked into it, but somebody out there probably knows when they first appear in cave art.
Doing a very cursory search, the oldest shields I found dated back to the middle late bronze age. however due to the fact that most shields from the ancient era where made of either wood or even wicker it is not surprising that shields predating the bronze age may never be found. Having said this, when westerners started colonizing Australia the Aboriginals did use bark shields. Even though this encounter was in the 1700's the Aboriginal peoples of Australia were essentially a Mesolithic peoples, so it is not unreasonable to speculate that shields may have been in and out of regular use during the Mesolithic period. In fact archaeologists have found evidence of inter-tribal warfare in Africa that dates back to either the late paleolithic or Mesolithic time (I don't have access to the article so I can't double check the dates, but it definitely predated the Neolithic. One could speculate that the first shields could go back to pre-modern man even as the first known case of murder dates back to 800,000 years and was committed by a Homo Erectus.
Regardless of how effective it could be irl, dual wielding ebony war axes in Skyrim is definitely the most aesthetic way to fight. Design team was on point with that weapon.
As a kung fu practitioner, and someone who has studied about Native American fighting techniques, I know of twin hatchet/tomahawk/warclub skills. Li Kwei is a famous user from the Water Margin, a story of a revolutionary group against an unpopular Chinese regime, and there are some reports of Native Americans using stone axes/hatchets in conjunction with warclubs and knives, which American colonists also took to using once they began fighting against the native tribes.
Hey Matt, would oyu please make a video on the scotish spiked targe, and on the scottish fighting with a dirk & shield in the left hand and a basket-hilt sword on the right?
This is how dual axes work:
STEP 1: find 2 heavy axes
STEP 2: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
Heinrich Dethahal VALHALLA
MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES
Dual wield chain axes FOR THE WIN!!
I see a norscan fond a computer
*S I G M A R* preserve us... a heretic.
"Having two sticks is advantageous over having one stick"
- Matt Easton 2k17
CONTEXT!
@@Halloyaw11 double dick surprise incoming
I only have one, but its BIG
"And IF you are NOT subscribed...." says the man with a freaking axe in the hand, in menacing position... that is one tactic, I suppose.
palabragris With an axe in each hand.
How do you think he got Lucy to marry him?
CarnalKid
Yeild Woman!
It was pretty convincing. I subscribed. XD
Bearded Bjorn yield.
I've only now realized how impressive these videos are that they're done in one take with such good flow.
Thanks.
Thank you for equating this to fighting with 2 sticks. Dual welding is dual welding, each weapon type brings specific nuances unique to that weapon to the fight.
Been training and fighting in "dual wield" formats since 1982. From SCA, Adrian Empire, Renaissance, some time training from/with friends in AMA, WMA, HEMA, amongst others, including non weaponed combat formats/forms (eastern and western) from 1978 forward. Prior was boxing and wrestling from 1970 forward courtesy of my father. I am still a student and have learned how much I still need to study practice and learn.
I believe a very serious misconception of dual wielding is: one weapon/hand for offense and one for defense. Don't cheat yourself nor give your opponent an advantage.
Dual wielding any matched weapons in theory is extremely simple. It takes years of training to excel, and with any dual wielding, it looks sloppy as crap most of the time if approached incorrectly.
Before I work with anyone choosing to dual wield, I insist they spend 6 months to a year fighting single weapon "off handed" for at least 60% or more of their practice. The remainder is fighting with your usual choice of weapon and shield or long sword, "off handed," and switching handedness after every victory.
Once this has been done they are ready to bring it all together. If you do not train mind and body to fight with your "off hand" you will only have a single sided approach. At this juncture you are simultaneously fighting single weapon with both hands. Your mind and body flows and performs equally offensively or defensively with either hand in that split second as the fight dictates the need. Your foot work is the primary defense and shield work. That is not to say your weapons are not used defensively but differently as the weapon they are if you defend single weapon with either hand, body positioning always supporting the movement fluidly, setting the offense up with either weapon at the same moment.
The trick is taking the single weapon combat in either hand and bringing them together so each hand supports the other throughout., Including footwork. Be it obliques movements so body positioning "re-chambers" the weapon through natural motion, countering the added potentially odd weight, or slowness of the ax. Just as such movement creates greater opportunity and faster strike opportunities in single weapon combat, it is absolutely necessary in ax fighting.
I also don't see ax fighters spending anywhere near enough time on hooking, getting hooked & bound, the limited variety/methods of releases available and the avenues of attack they set up for and against you. Experienced fighters will set the hook up and control you with that bind. If you don't train equally on how to release from the variety of binds that can be used against you, the ax is a detriment.
The argument, was it done historically has gone on for some time notwithstanding viking sagas that may be interpreted as dual wield or single weapon being wield in either hand throughout a single fight.
my 50 cents....
Axes were also used by the Eastern Romans (byzantines) and many Goth/Saxons/Normans/Franks etc. The Eastern Roman Axe was used by the infantrty with a shield and it was recommended that it also have a small point in the opposite side of the axe to penetrate helmets/lamellar etc. So more like an axe with a small pick. Other axe variations were the 2-bladed axe & the single blade axe. It was called Tzikourion from the latin Securis & the word still survives into Greek as Τσεκουρι -Tsekouri/Tzekouri.
two stick better than one stick.
stone age wisdom.
Sutorenja this is a advanced stick used for killing
Shouldn't it be Stick Age wisdom?😀
who are you who are so wise in the ways of science
If you have the choice between Two axes and just one axe.... and you prefer just having one... take the two axes and throw one to your oponent face :)
wazdakka And just give your enemy an extra axe!?
Well dual wielding without developed dual wielding skills will result in penalties, so hopefully the enemy picks up the axe in confusion and ends up with less attack points.
dont worry, your enemy have only two hands. And looking down and bend to pick up the axe from ground is not a smart move either.
you don' give him an extre axe if he is dead with an axe stick into his skull XD and yes if you miss the axe is probably far behind him or at his feet and in that case, bend to grab it is a pretty dangerous move.... beacause the axe thrower didn't juste wait while his axe was flying and is probably charging you use the distraction he made by throwing a F***** axe towards you
tbh having anything in your off hand (specially in an unarmored fight) a stick, a stool, a cloak or indeed an axe even if you hold it at the wrong end, must bring you massive advantage over single hand/single weapon option.
I've been thinking about this, in the light of the most recent islamic terror attack in London with knives. Having your hard shell laptop rucksack with the laptop in it covering the lines and you extend it away from your body...congratulations you just reinvented the buckler. Better than nothing imho.
What about dual wielding shields?
Mistaa Spaakles Bucklers might work? Maybe with spikes on them so you could offend and defend at the same time. :p
Great question, mate! :)))
I'm reasonably sure there exists a treatise for that.
i think there's a term for that. Gauntlets or something or other :')
Lmao, I meant to say could and would it be viable not if it actually existed.
I think "Vikings" had Ragnar fighting with two axes at some point.
For dual wielding axes I suppose one should be thrown (like francisca), then one used for melee. Or you throw both, then run.
Jürgen Sven Fuchs Or you throw both then run that cracked me up hahahahahahaha
Jürgen Sven Fuchs it wasn't ragnar it was jarl borg all thourgh season 2
I think Egyptian had a specialized army using throwing axes.
Yes! There was several scenes with different characters. Ragnar was dual wielding swords, I think. Fighting with dual wielding weapons but using them for the same action instead of using them for different actions in different directions.
I believe dual wielding shields, throwing them both and charging is more effective.
I lost a year of my life everytime a character in that show charged into the enemy while holding two axes instead of just grabbing a flippin' shield.
There is one historical depiction that I know of, showing double-wielded axes, on the Glamis Manse Cross. Unfortunately for its credibility, though, the figure wielding them is a centaur...
(PS: I am surprised that nobody else has mentioned this)
There are some accounts in the Norse sagas where a second ax was held hidden in the same hand with their shield
That is a technique I employ a lot
I don't think I've heard of a second axe behind a shield, but I have definitely heard of a seax being used in such a way, so I suppose it could theoretically work with a particularly spiky axe as well.
Throw one axe and then take the one you held with your shield hand to use in melee.
I have heard of the axe held in the same hand as the shield as well, but in the situation I read this specific Norseman's primary weapon was a sword.
Devin Stromgren it was the spear. Swords or axes were secondary weapons if not two handed axes. Spear and shield were the usual choice. Swords were expensive. You had a weapon for range and obe for close combat. So a spear and a sax, a spear and an axe, a spear and a sword, a danish two handed axe and a sax, etc. a sword combined with an axe would be not that effective.
What about dual wielding spears, the ultimate range advantage in melee
Xarias Fury with heads on both sides of the spears. Also remember to never stop spinning about, truly the ultimate weapon.
Two pommels in the front, and two pommels at the back. You will be a god of war.
Spinning is important. Context.
Sorry but the ultimate combo is dual wielding ballistas.
Skeggs of Horkabjork that's just a pole hammer.
“ a whopping great whop” I need to pepper that into my daily conversations
I love the fact that you are able to state that this wasn't really done historically, but still go through with entertaining whether or not it could be a practical approach to combat. Too many people would quickly dismiss this as a "no this was never done and you shouldn't do it" sort of thing, but I think there is a lot of value in toying with the idea and demonstrating it, if only to see the WHY behind the fact that it wasn't used (or was rarely used) historically. Bring on more of these sorts of videos!
Main problem with duel wielding axes: You can't throw a pommel
Pretty sure that's the same problem with single axes as well. Can't end them rightly.
That's why you should duel wield maces. A mace is a pommel on a stick.
Gotta end 'em rightly!
Naw. Axemen don't care to end them "rightly". We're happy to end them wrongly. Very, very wrongly...
Just carry a bag of pommels
If I could only watch one TH-cam channel, it would be this one. Entertaining and educational.
Edutainment!
Can i say, pommel ?
I am, in fact, here for whatever.
You could probably dual-wield axes using some escrima-like figure 8 technique, but unless you're trained at that, you're probably better off with just one axe. It takes a lot of coordination. Still, I'd rather have an axe shield combination.
There is a middle ground, like he says at 12:24. Use one like you normally would, with the other one basically like a parrying dagger
Josh Starkley
You're right, that's like a nerfed figure 8, but easier to coordinate and probably better than a single axe.
Boring.
there was an older RPG I played that made the distinction between axe types. The woodsmans axe was slow and heavy. I know IRL a "Wood axe" can come in many different versions. The game version was the classic firemans axe shape. IIRC the executioners axe hit like a truck, but it also left you open to attack on the next turn. So I guess they at least tried with that one.
Matt, you are absolutely right about Kung fu...your discussion of dual axes versus spears is also spot on. Baguazhang has a weapon that is very closely associated with it called alternatively Deer Antler Knives or Axes and Mandarin Duck Knives or Axes. They are were explicitly designed for the purpose of hooking, locking and cutting when fighting against spearmen. They were favored by students of this style as personal weapons that can be concealed on the body when serving as a bodyguard.
I have to say. Fighting with two axes, utilizing all those options hooking, turning one axe around to defend with a "stick" and just those fluent motions of defending and attacking at the same time, would make for great visuals for a movie.
I have to say, the moment I saw you locking the axe onto the upper edge of that shield, I saw the main reason I'd want two axes. One crazy double axeman in the middle of a battle of men with shields and swords would be a terrifying change of pace to encounter. He takes momentary control of your shield as only an axe can, and then hits you around it with another one. You'd have to be very quick attacking his arm or axe haft to stop it.
Brotherhood of the wolf is a great film, but very few people i know have seen it :o
Can you do a video about tomahawk and dagger?
Throw one of the axes for some psychological damage. If your opponent is daft or unlucky enough to be without a shield, you might even hit him with the thrown axe.
Win-win.
Thanks for the video. Re Kung Fu etc. two 'cleavers' is pretty common but axes aren't really. Best I know the most common dual-wielding weapons for chinese martial was the hudiedao (a matched pair of cleavers) in the south and the lujiaodao and/or fu tao (crescent knives/hook swords) in the north. I don't think it's an accident all three of those weapons have relatively good hand protection, knucklebow+ at least. I've played with tomahawks in the off hand and pretty much agree with everything you say. In most situations there are plenty of other things I'd rather have in the off-hand (shields are very nice, even tiny ones) but it definitely has uses. By the end of the video you listed many of them, and even included the idea that just because you have two you don't necessarily have to wield both at once, but I don't think you really mentioned throwing. Take a surprise strike from just outside of melee distance and still have an axe in hand as you move in behind it. Anyway, great video as usual, cheers!
I'm here because I pretty much always learn something from your videos ;-) Having said that, I have a slightly unhealthy fascination with axes, so thanks for this one in particular!
Ok, I actually have a question now. Using a second axe as a "parrying stick": Wouldn't that leave your hand terribly vulnerable? I kinda winced just watching you holding it like that.
What if you were to use the defending axe in a sort of "harrying" manner as well...as a boxer might with a lead jabbing hand...perhaps to give light thrusts and feints in addition to defending/hooking?
I was expecting that axe to come flying at the camera when you were swinging it
I was thinking the same thing!
On the point of axes (also other one handed weapons that aren't swords e.g. maces) how do you carry them around obviously you have sword suspensions for scabbards but I really woud like to know how they would be carried.
Its in the bloopers reel ;)
:grunts and pelvic thrusts in a small awkward circle:
BERSERKER
Scenarios for wielding two axes: You, a true Scandinavian, are fighting against an impure Norman axeman with your axe and shield combo. The axeman destroys your shield with a chop, but you hook his with your axe beard. In the same tempo, you murder his face with a push, thrusting the top of the axe head. Quickly you pull your axe back, but because your instincts made you stupid when you saw movement on your peripheral, you accidentally rehooked his shield and it splintered due to the force of your axe beard retracting from the Norman's pulp-like face.
Seeing another adversary rushing towards you and seeing the Norman's axe stuck in your damaged shield, you reluctantly pull out the Norman axe, hoping to hook this barbarian's spear and felling two soldiers in a day. You pray to the gods, hoping that your days are not numbered.
*begin d20 die roll*
But one question remains: What are you trying to compensate with your edgyness?
Dual axes is the ultimate way to run through a melee, parrying, hooking and striking. It's all about distance and aggressively CLOSING distance to remove the opponent's advantage. Hook and bind their weapon and charge in on them. Knock them over. Longswords and other lengthy weapons are useless if both your timing AND luck are good. Finally, and here's a dirty trick I learned in the heat of a match, if you and another axe wielder hook axes and get into a momentary tugging match: reverse the force and punch them in the chest with the head of your axe. If you give up on the tug-of-war just one instant😊 sooner and thrust forward, your opponent will not only be completely off guard but also off balance. It's bloodthirsty and brutal, up close and personal with two axes and that's why it's my favorite fighting style.
It is so refreshing to see someone who actually gets how martial arts are related. Kudos to you brother ...
Why am I here? Why are any of us here? Whats our purpose? Where did we come from? Where are we going?
All good and fair questions
What about choking up 2/3 the way on the handle with the none dominant hand? You can still chop and hook, but it will also protect the underside of your wrist and lower forearm for blocks. This seems better than reversing the axe so the head is under the hand. Thoughts? Cheers Matt!
Yes and in no time you can slide that hand down again to increase swing length and momentum.
One weird peccadillo I found with using two axes. I found it much easier to use two axes if they both have much shorter hafts, like hatchets. Odd because I don't find the same thing when using two versus one stick of the same length as an axe haft.
Brotherhood of the Wolf is under-rated, I am so glad you are familiar! There are numerous fight scenes and weapons which are somewhat outlandish, but the choreography uses them creatively, and in a way that still mixes in some viable martial arts.
Also, the composition/storytelling is done well, using a loose historical basis.
I like that film a lot.
I like to imagine a scared cameraman dodging axeblows thoughout the video
I am training reenactment and i have recently played with dual wielding axes in duels. In line battles they are of little use, unless you are in a flanking role or another role that requires a lot of running.
I use two relatively light axes which roughly about the same size, i use 1 axe for defence and one for attack though which one is which depends on the opponent and his weapon/attacks. Depending on the opponent i am either on the offensive or defensive. I always watch my environment and foot work so that i can move around since i dont have a shield.
One of the most regular things i do is that i am looking for an opportunity when the opponent attacks to use the hook on the axe to lock down his/her weapon, get in close (especially if it is something like a longsword or spear) and attack with the other.
My main inspiration for using them this way is from the "First Law" books where several characters use a rapier in one hand and a parrying dagger in the other. Often we get into their perspective and the book tells in detail how they use their dagger and rapier in unison.
It has had some success, but i am looking for ideas to improve this fighting style.
Maybe you could throw one axe at them? Then you've still got another axe to hit them with. :-)
I have worked with axes and axe style combat for almost 18 years and wondered about your opinion on fighting with different holds on the axes, since i do "dual wield" them so to speak. I use my shorter bladed, lighter hafted axe for striking and a fair amount of parrying (as much as you have with your hand at the base of the axe) and my longer bladed heavier axe is held at the head for parrying as my hand is guarded by the extended beard(Arms and armour type c axe). I use punch and moving parries as well as guarding and hooking in my techniques. My studies in the axe come from glima, kali, and irish shillelagh. I mostly use the shillelagh style for my off hand however i incorporate a mix of various styles to make it a viable offense and defense. Just wanted to know your opinion mate.
you should definitely filmed and upload it. Would be interesting to experiment with
How much did people fight as individuals back then as opposed to fighting as a group?
I could see someone with two axes hooking the shields of two guys facing him while his buddies stab both of the opponents with spears. If he had only one buddy who wasn't busy, his left hand ax could hook the side of his left opponent's shield and rotate that opponent enough to prevent a good counterstroke while his right hand ax hooking the shield of the opponent on his right would create enough opening for a single buddy to attack the opponent. Then, he and his buddy would be two-against-one on the remaining opponent.
Man Matt Easton would have messed those London Bridge guys up good.
Johny Ricco And then be prosecuted for a hate crime and labeled an Islamaphobe.
My question is, how effective would martial arts be with 2 axes so something like boxing, or muay thai, were you add in leg kicks or maybe even kick boxing?
Thank you! The Axe and sword video prompted this question for me. :)
I've never seen this outside of Wushu (and quite rare) and fantasy. As cool as it was to see Dwalin mowing through orcs with double axes, or read about Li Kui kicking all sorts of ass, or order the Tomahawk unit from Age of Empires III doing this, the limitations of this you illustrated quite well. And of course this also applies to maces and hammers-as much as I like having my D&D dwarf with a hammer in one hand and an axe in another, it wouldn't be ideal.
The axe-shield combo dates back to the Sumerians and Egyptians, and was still being used by some native American groups (in the west) and South African groups (the Swazi especially) in the 19th century.
*sees thumbnail*
Oh, a new FudgeMuppet video!
*clicks*
Wait a second...
A character from the the Song Dynasty novel, "The Water Margin", named Li Kui (Black Whirlwind), used double axes, and perhaps as a consequence, double axes remain common in some Chinese martial arts.
Could you please make a video describing the advantages of different axes and tomahawks? It would also be great if you could cover the difference between axes and tomahawks? Love your channel man. keep up the good work.
A tomahawk is a type of axe :)
Question: If you're going into battle, and your only options of weapons are a two-handed greatsword and a shield, would you one-hand the greatsword with the shield or would you give up the shield for two-handing the sword?
Vin of Steel
I am actually interested in hearing his response to this.
do you have the armor that the two handed greatsword was almost always used with? two handed weapons like greatswords weren't popular until armor was protective enough that shields were unnecessary, so if the armor is available then no question really, if that level of armor is not available, it becomes a much more difficult question, but wielding the greatsword similar to a short one-handed spear in conjunction with a shield might be manageable.
Vin of Steel
This is just my tuppence (based on a few years of martial arts and swordsmanship practice). Go for just the sword - if you have even the slightest incling on how to use it. A two hander has great defensive and offensive capabilities, even in relatively cramped quarters, when used right. If you have no training whatsoever and just need to get out (and there's some slim chance of doing so) then just a shield might be a better option.
Unless you are a monster of muscle, don't take both. And even if you have muscle to back it up, I would not recommend it - two hander for the win in that case.
Jon Goat
Depends on the shield. A strapped on kite shield, sure - well maybe, but bucklers, round shields and others are generally gripped in the boss and even if holding a weapon is possible (like a dagger with a buckler) it does limit your movement of the weapon. With anything bigger than a buckler I think the awkwardness of it all takes away the defensive gain.
But hey, this seems like a fun area to do some experiments!
Take both. Size up your enemy. Size up your allies. Decide accordingly.
Im glad you mentioned Brotherhood of the Wolf. My favourite film of all time! Might be some interesting scenes to critique in that one :-)
In Vikings Season 1 and 2, Jarl Borg is shown to fight with 2 axes. Its interesting to watch, being able to hook a shield with 1 axe and attack with the other in one fluid movement is a plus
Li Kui, or 'Black Whirlwind,' from the 14th century Chinese novel 'The Water Margin,' was a famous dual axe wielding fighter.
I train using two hatchets (short handles) for several reasons 1. ambidextrous training skills should you sustain an injury to one arm, 2. being short in stature, it is preferable to get in close and "choke" any swing, and 3. it has a psychological affect of which swing to defend against. As a Maori, traditional defense was in the footwork, and with a short handled club the point of balance is better for strikes.
I believe the german guy in Kingdom of Heaven was wielding dual axes after being hit in the troat by a crossbow with some success.
I suggest the film Bang Rajan (and Bang Rajan 2 I guess) to anyone interested in dual wielding. A thai film about a village defending against the Burmese army, based on historical facts. The film features a "berserker" dual wielding axes while riding a water buffalo. If I remember correctly, in the second movie there is a whole squad of them. Did I mention that all of the "normal" thai fighters fight with slim dual swords? (Elven style.) The burmese army I think is less exotic, sword and buckler. But I am not sure, it's been a while. A must see anyway!
the Chinese Ming dynasty (14th to 17th) century novel about the Song dynasty (around 12th century) called the Water Margin features a character called the Black Whirlwind. The Black Whirlwinds weapons of choice were two short axes (likely held closely to the axehead, giving him short range but greater speed and control).
they called his style "Three Axes" because he would execute his attacks in trios. for example strike, block, strike. strike, strike, strike. block, strike, block.
Fascinating! I'll look that up.
Looking it up in English might be difficult. The Chinese search terms you could look for are 李逵 (Li Kui - the Name of the Black Whirlwind), 黑旋风 (Hei Xuan Feng - Black Whirlwind), 三板斧 (San Ban Fu - Three Axes), 水浒传 (Shui Hu Zhuan - The Water Margin)
double Spears? talk about that next
Gee Robert! How come your liege lets you wield two spears?
romans had those pila and javelin , most of the time they were thrown ,
Many armies used spears that could be thrown or used in hand to hand combat. The Zulu armies being particularly notable.
Diarmuid ua duibhne
Hey I'm not sure if you've covered this topic in a previous video but what is your opinion on ambidextrous swordsmen and the importance of being capable of using both hands as a sword hand? I've noticed that many seem to have a signature sword hand is there a reason for this such as perfecting one dominate hand instead of wasting time on the other
Troy I'm pretty sure he's covered this before, either in its own video or during some of the ones he made during the period when his right hand was injured. I think he made one on left-handed swordsmen around that time, and he may have gone into detail on ambidextrousness in it.
Pretty sure this is covered in the treatise of '73 (revised in '87) D P Roberts vs I Montoya by W Goldman
It would help but the weaker left had isn't the primary difficulty of duel wielding.
Thanks! Informative and interesting.
I did like the "whop with a whopping great whop" bit.
Subscribed because you asked so nicely and you're entertaining.
I wonder how much FMA does Matt know, I was quite impressed to see it mentioned. I practiced it for a while, so, i quickly figured out that "doble baston" (read in spanish) techniques would fit well.
What I thought, when talking about different weapons, was axe and short sword.
Also, in my mandirigma (warrior, in tagalog) mindset, setting one hand for offense and the other for defense is wrong. I learned to used both hands to do everything, so the mandirigma has really 2 strong hands.
17:47 - really scary axe move. It caught me out, and now I'm stunned on the ground.
If I'm right the Polynesians or Philippinos had a 2-axe martial art or style. The berserker in For Honor uses it for their animations.
(Edit: Nvm, he addresses it briefly.)
Great video as always! I've used tomahawks in kali and messed around with one in each hand; it's my favourite weapon. Wether it's plausible or not, I don't know...but it's certainly a lot of fun training with two!
I'm still subscribed but the notifications of some of your newer videos were delayed, but the problem appears to have resolved itself. You may want to make sure to remind people to check the channel page from time to time, if they don't hear anything. Might slip their minds. Keep it up Matt, thanks.
some of the dual wielding and other weapons Vs other weapon videos tend to get somewhat repetitive but this one stayed interesting, cheers mate!😉
Great video, thank you! Start watching your channel because creating medievalish fantasy world and want it to have some semblance of realism
Main hand/spare hand seems weird to me. I prefer on hand/off hand personally. I rock a 28 ounce Estwing framing hammer in my on hand and a 24 ounce SOG tomahawk (the one with holes in the head) in my off hand. You don't really realize how much energy it costs to swing the both of them around together until you get them in hand. My biggest piece of advice I can give you for using heavy melee weapons is this: if you experience discomfort, pain, or even strain on your joints while training, you must drop your training speed to 10% and do the action again a few dozen times. Then try to figure out what part of your form or action is causing that problem, and then modify your swings to get rid of the strain. If you strain your joints while training, you can destroy them in the heat of the moment. You will feel really dumb going so slow, but it really is the best way to understand how you are doing it wrong.
I'm no martial artist, just a weapons enthusiast/hobbyist.
very good points. here in the US, between the Natives, and the frontier men, techniques became well developed. usually with a knife and tomahawk (the two things you wouldn't be caught dead without on the frontier.) but, also I agree, having some Eskrima training, two hand axes fits almost perfectly with Kali/Eskrima. many American instructors have Incorporated them in their teachings. and in the case of the hawk, you can take the blade off, and you basically have a non lethal Eskrima stick option.
Im glad he mentioned brotherhood of the wolf. That is one of my favorite movies.
I do believe the Franks did it times. They had fairly light heads and short hafts as I recall. And carried a brace of them as they also used them as projectiles.
And you're right the Chinese do indeed have two ax styles. Though every demonstration I've seen has fairly heavy heads and choke up to right behind the ax head. Which is another thing you can do, using the haft to protect your forearm.
I do agree using one with a shield is a better option.
I really want to see Matt in a sparring match with dual axes against a Spearman.
I've always wondered: how would a fight with shields between a right handed and a left handed person?
The lefty being more used to meet right handed opponents, my money is on the southpaw
the romans made all the legionars learn to use the shield in the left and the gladius and pilum in the right
so did the greeks with their opliti
i think only people that didn't fight in formation had warriors using shield in the right and the weapon in the left
Fabio Varrà It seems to me that there would be an advantage to having someone who carried his shield in the right hand standing on the right flank of a formation, particularly if the formation was several ranks deep. That way an enemy who got around on that side would face a solid row of shields just like an enemy on the left flank, The alternative would be a side of the formation that was dangerously open and vulnerable.
the problem would be that u would still have an hole in the front shield wall like that, far more dangerous to me because you can manuvre to protect your right side from enemy attack, while an hole in the shield wall would always be a downfall
but you are right on the right flank being the most vulnerable side of a formation like a phanlanx, and to be the first man on the roght flank was a position of great honor for the greeks because you wouldn't have anyone shielding ur right side
the romans resolved this problem because the scutum would protect entirly the soldier using it
Fabio Varrà Yes there would be a gap at the front right corner but that gap would have the swords or spears of two men in it. If everyone carries his shield in his left hand, the shields of the men on the left flank are useless. A Roman century fought as eight rows of eight men. A Greek phalanx was usually at leasr three to five men deep. It seems strange that they would fight with one entire side of their formations vulnerable if they had men who would actually be more suited from birth to defend on that side.
I was just about to comment about tomahawks crossing the line between wood axe and fighting axe when you got to that point in the video. It's one of the reasons I love them. The larger of your two axes appears to have the same sort of cross section as a tomahawk as well, a little too thick to be a pure fighting axe.
I would love to see a video focusing on two knives and what the advantages and disadvantages would be. What context it may be useful if any, etc. Specifically Karl Tanner from Game of Thrones looked very fancy but I've always questioned the effectiveness against the bastard sword and whatnot. Would be a fun venture anyway. I like learning stuff. Thanks for the awesome vids Matt!
The best argument I have for duel wielding is the fact that you can deliver a fatal blow from either hand more as a posed to a standard shield weapon combo
This depends on the length of the axes. For example 2 short axes vs 2 swords, the sword have the reach advantage so we all know who the victor is (depends ALSO on the skill of the wearer). But 2 long and very light axes vs 2 normal lengthed 1 hand swords, again. The longest weapon has a reach advantage over the other. And it depends on the "weight" of the weapon too. So the table is turned. Axes is the victor
One axe could also be thrown. Believing as I do in being prepared for more than one situation, I would go shield and axe in case I encounter missiles, a very likely probability in a battlefield situation. Though I also would want a backup weapon, so either sword and shield with axe as backup or more likely axe and shield with some kind of a sword for backup, would want the sword perhaps a bit smaller so the extra weight does not become too much of an issue.
"hitting someone in the helmet" now i know matt fights dirty..
Leon Pacuret
That's not dirty fighting. That's being sensible if you have a reasonable impact weapon (i.e. not a typical cutting sword)...
ShidenByakko In Britain people often use the term helmet to refer to the end of the penis
George Bennett
Right. Interesting that hasn't spread to the greater Commonwealth. I'm Australian and that's the 1st time I'm hearing it... Tho that just illustrates my point: Clocking someone in the helmet (either of them) ain't fighting dirty, it's fighting smart...
Yeah that is abit weird. In general I find the Aussies and the Brits to be closer in terms of vocab than the Aussies / Brits and the Yanks. I agree with you that it's fighting smart, I don't give a fuck who you are if you take an axe in the bollocks you've lost the fight.
It's called pragmatic fighting
I think that the ability to hook would be the biggest potential advantage of twin axes -- especially if you practiced and trained specifically for it. Basically you could make every parry a hook & pull action using the beard of the axe in an attempt to wrench your opponent off balance (and potentially closer to you) as the other axe strikes. And since it could be done with either weapon your opponent couldn't be sure which way you're going to go.
Over here in the "Mericas", our people used double axe even though the axe knife combo was preferred. Our shield made from buffalo rawhide was tough enough to repel bullets. Native martial arts
@scholagladiatoria - yes, there are Kung Fu Wushu styles that utilise double-wielding. Lots of, actually. Sabers, daggers, swords, axes, mauls, even whip-chains, you name it. It's all for show in the present day, really, but it's still based on some real, old styles I believe. Been doin' Kung Fu for 4 years now, fun as heck :)
I want what's in the background. Some lovely weapons you have there. Gives me a woodie!
I always seems to miss, in the discussion of axes or hammers or other heavy-headed weapons, a discussion of the option to choke up on the handle to just under the weighted end. While this does decrease chopping or hitting power, it dramatically increases velocity. Choke up on an axe and throw a jab with it - see how fast and aggressive you can be? Is there any historical precedent for axes or hammers being used in this way?
Historically the native Americans used to wield axes in this style.
Definitely axe & shield are a potent combo. I'm not sold on double axe styles. Great video as usual.
A thing you could only do with 2 axes: hook one to another beard to beard and swing them with double range, like nunchaku. That would probably work once (maybe). Axe style pommel strike, to end them rightly.
I just kept thinking he would accidentally let go of that axe lmao
Duel axes can work quite well for quick aggressive attacks against people on the flanks of the shield wall. One axe smashes into the shield and the second into the head shoulder or leg of your enemy.
It occurs to me that it might be very effictive used similar to butterfly swords - doing the double attack where one weapon parries the attack while the other goes for the opponent weapon hand .
I'm viewing this for a book I'm writing, but damn I'm hooked on the history bits
"The axe is a _decent_ weapon"
*_All of human history would like to know your location_*
Question about axes: Did they ever develop any with hand guards? If not why and would (or could) a hand guard be designed to help reduce some of the defensive weaknesses of the axe as a weapon?
After some google-fu I found Li Kwei's Double Axes in White Crane style kung-fu, Meihuaquan Double Axes, a Southern Double-Axe form in Shaolin Wudang...
Examples are out there but I would balk at labeling them as effective other than in a general fitness and conditioning sense.
something that you didn't mention, is that sometimes hooking things can be accidental and not advantageous (like if both were not expecting it and you both have to rethink your now entangled motions) and in that case having a second sharp thing would be quite handy.
Matt, your mentioning of shields in this video brought a question to mind; do you know when shield use first started to appear in history, and by who and where? I would assume it would be pretty early in the piece. Cheers!
Very very early human prehistory, I should think. I have never looked into it, but somebody out there probably knows when they first appear in cave art.
Doing a very cursory search, the oldest shields I found dated back to the middle late bronze age. however due to the fact that most shields from the ancient era where made of either wood or even wicker it is not surprising that shields predating the bronze age may never be found. Having said this, when westerners started colonizing Australia the Aboriginals did use bark shields. Even though this encounter was in the 1700's the Aboriginal peoples of Australia were essentially a Mesolithic peoples, so it is not unreasonable to speculate that shields may have been in and out of regular use during the Mesolithic period. In fact archaeologists have found evidence of inter-tribal warfare in Africa that dates back to either the late paleolithic or Mesolithic time (I don't have access to the article so I can't double check the dates, but it definitely predated the Neolithic. One could speculate that the first shields could go back to pre-modern man even as the first known case of murder dates back to 800,000 years and was committed by a Homo Erectus.
Regardless of how effective it could be irl, dual wielding ebony war axes in Skyrim is definitely the most aesthetic way to fight. Design team was on point with that weapon.
As a kung fu practitioner, and someone who has studied about Native American fighting techniques, I know of twin hatchet/tomahawk/warclub skills.
Li Kwei is a famous user from the Water Margin, a story of a revolutionary group against an unpopular Chinese regime, and there are some reports of Native Americans using stone axes/hatchets in conjunction with warclubs and knives, which American colonists also took to using once they began fighting against the native tribes.
How would you effectively counter someone who was trying to hook your shield away with an axe or a bill/halberd?
Hey Matt, would oyu please make a video on the scotish spiked targe, and on the scottish fighting with a dirk & shield in the left hand and a basket-hilt sword on the right?