Well dual wielding without developed dual wielding skills will result in penalties, so hopefully the enemy picks up the axe in confusion and ends up with less attack points.
you don' give him an extre axe if he is dead with an axe stick into his skull XD and yes if you miss the axe is probably far behind him or at his feet and in that case, bend to grab it is a pretty dangerous move.... beacause the axe thrower didn't juste wait while his axe was flying and is probably charging you use the distraction he made by throwing a F***** axe towards you
tbh having anything in your off hand (specially in an unarmored fight) a stick, a stool, a cloak or indeed an axe even if you hold it at the wrong end, must bring you massive advantage over single hand/single weapon option. I've been thinking about this, in the light of the most recent islamic terror attack in London with knives. Having your hard shell laptop rucksack with the laptop in it covering the lines and you extend it away from your body...congratulations you just reinvented the buckler. Better than nothing imho.
Thank you for equating this to fighting with 2 sticks. Dual welding is dual welding, each weapon type brings specific nuances unique to that weapon to the fight. Been training and fighting in "dual wield" formats since 1982. From SCA, Adrian Empire, Renaissance, some time training from/with friends in AMA, WMA, HEMA, amongst others, including non weaponed combat formats/forms (eastern and western) from 1978 forward. Prior was boxing and wrestling from 1970 forward courtesy of my father. I am still a student and have learned how much I still need to study practice and learn. I believe a very serious misconception of dual wielding is: one weapon/hand for offense and one for defense. Don't cheat yourself nor give your opponent an advantage. Dual wielding any matched weapons in theory is extremely simple. It takes years of training to excel, and with any dual wielding, it looks sloppy as crap most of the time if approached incorrectly. Before I work with anyone choosing to dual wield, I insist they spend 6 months to a year fighting single weapon "off handed" for at least 60% or more of their practice. The remainder is fighting with your usual choice of weapon and shield or long sword, "off handed," and switching handedness after every victory. Once this has been done they are ready to bring it all together. If you do not train mind and body to fight with your "off hand" you will only have a single sided approach. At this juncture you are simultaneously fighting single weapon with both hands. Your mind and body flows and performs equally offensively or defensively with either hand in that split second as the fight dictates the need. Your foot work is the primary defense and shield work. That is not to say your weapons are not used defensively but differently as the weapon they are if you defend single weapon with either hand, body positioning always supporting the movement fluidly, setting the offense up with either weapon at the same moment. The trick is taking the single weapon combat in either hand and bringing them together so each hand supports the other throughout., Including footwork. Be it obliques movements so body positioning "re-chambers" the weapon through natural motion, countering the added potentially odd weight, or slowness of the ax. Just as such movement creates greater opportunity and faster strike opportunities in single weapon combat, it is absolutely necessary in ax fighting. I also don't see ax fighters spending anywhere near enough time on hooking, getting hooked & bound, the limited variety/methods of releases available and the avenues of attack they set up for and against you. Experienced fighters will set the hook up and control you with that bind. If you don't train equally on how to release from the variety of binds that can be used against you, the ax is a detriment. The argument, was it done historically has gone on for some time notwithstanding viking sagas that may be interpreted as dual wield or single weapon being wield in either hand throughout a single fight. my 50 cents....
Axes were also used by the Eastern Romans (byzantines) and many Goth/Saxons/Normans/Franks etc. The Eastern Roman Axe was used by the infantrty with a shield and it was recommended that it also have a small point in the opposite side of the axe to penetrate helmets/lamellar etc. So more like an axe with a small pick. Other axe variations were the 2-bladed axe & the single blade axe. It was called Tzikourion from the latin Securis & the word still survives into Greek as Τσεκουρι -Tsekouri/Tzekouri.
There is one historical depiction that I know of, showing double-wielded axes, on the Glamis Manse Cross. Unfortunately for its credibility, though, the figure wielding them is a centaur... (PS: I am surprised that nobody else has mentioned this)
I don't think I've heard of a second axe behind a shield, but I have definitely heard of a seax being used in such a way, so I suppose it could theoretically work with a particularly spiky axe as well.
Devin Stromgren it was the spear. Swords or axes were secondary weapons if not two handed axes. Spear and shield were the usual choice. Swords were expensive. You had a weapon for range and obe for close combat. So a spear and a sax, a spear and an axe, a spear and a sword, a danish two handed axe and a sax, etc. a sword combined with an axe would be not that effective.
I think "Vikings" had Ragnar fighting with two axes at some point. For dual wielding axes I suppose one should be thrown (like francisca), then one used for melee. Or you throw both, then run.
Yes! There was several scenes with different characters. Ragnar was dual wielding swords, I think. Fighting with dual wielding weapons but using them for the same action instead of using them for different actions in different directions. I believe dual wielding shields, throwing them both and charging is more effective.
I love the fact that you are able to state that this wasn't really done historically, but still go through with entertaining whether or not it could be a practical approach to combat. Too many people would quickly dismiss this as a "no this was never done and you shouldn't do it" sort of thing, but I think there is a lot of value in toying with the idea and demonstrating it, if only to see the WHY behind the fact that it wasn't used (or was rarely used) historically. Bring on more of these sorts of videos!
You could probably dual-wield axes using some escrima-like figure 8 technique, but unless you're trained at that, you're probably better off with just one axe. It takes a lot of coordination. Still, I'd rather have an axe shield combination.
I have to say. Fighting with two axes, utilizing all those options hooking, turning one axe around to defend with a "stick" and just those fluent motions of defending and attacking at the same time, would make for great visuals for a movie.
On the point of axes (also other one handed weapons that aren't swords e.g. maces) how do you carry them around obviously you have sword suspensions for scabbards but I really woud like to know how they would be carried.
there was an older RPG I played that made the distinction between axe types. The woodsmans axe was slow and heavy. I know IRL a "Wood axe" can come in many different versions. The game version was the classic firemans axe shape. IIRC the executioners axe hit like a truck, but it also left you open to attack on the next turn. So I guess they at least tried with that one.
I have to say, the moment I saw you locking the axe onto the upper edge of that shield, I saw the main reason I'd want two axes. One crazy double axeman in the middle of a battle of men with shields and swords would be a terrifying change of pace to encounter. He takes momentary control of your shield as only an axe can, and then hits you around it with another one. You'd have to be very quick attacking his arm or axe haft to stop it.
Dual axes is the ultimate way to run through a melee, parrying, hooking and striking. It's all about distance and aggressively CLOSING distance to remove the opponent's advantage. Hook and bind their weapon and charge in on them. Knock them over. Longswords and other lengthy weapons are useless if both your timing AND luck are good. Finally, and here's a dirty trick I learned in the heat of a match, if you and another axe wielder hook axes and get into a momentary tugging match: reverse the force and punch them in the chest with the head of your axe. If you give up on the tug-of-war just one instant😊 sooner and thrust forward, your opponent will not only be completely off guard but also off balance. It's bloodthirsty and brutal, up close and personal with two axes and that's why it's my favorite fighting style.
Matt, you are absolutely right about Kung fu...your discussion of dual axes versus spears is also spot on. Baguazhang has a weapon that is very closely associated with it called alternatively Deer Antler Knives or Axes and Mandarin Duck Knives or Axes. They are were explicitly designed for the purpose of hooking, locking and cutting when fighting against spearmen. They were favored by students of this style as personal weapons that can be concealed on the body when serving as a bodyguard.
I'm here because I pretty much always learn something from your videos ;-) Having said that, I have a slightly unhealthy fascination with axes, so thanks for this one in particular!
Ok, I actually have a question now. Using a second axe as a "parrying stick": Wouldn't that leave your hand terribly vulnerable? I kinda winced just watching you holding it like that.
One weird peccadillo I found with using two axes. I found it much easier to use two axes if they both have much shorter hafts, like hatchets. Odd because I don't find the same thing when using two versus one stick of the same length as an axe haft.
How much did people fight as individuals back then as opposed to fighting as a group? I could see someone with two axes hooking the shields of two guys facing him while his buddies stab both of the opponents with spears. If he had only one buddy who wasn't busy, his left hand ax could hook the side of his left opponent's shield and rotate that opponent enough to prevent a good counterstroke while his right hand ax hooking the shield of the opponent on his right would create enough opening for a single buddy to attack the opponent. Then, he and his buddy would be two-against-one on the remaining opponent.
I'm still subscribed but the notifications of some of your newer videos were delayed, but the problem appears to have resolved itself. You may want to make sure to remind people to check the channel page from time to time, if they don't hear anything. Might slip their minds. Keep it up Matt, thanks.
Thanks for the video. Re Kung Fu etc. two 'cleavers' is pretty common but axes aren't really. Best I know the most common dual-wielding weapons for chinese martial was the hudiedao (a matched pair of cleavers) in the south and the lujiaodao and/or fu tao (crescent knives/hook swords) in the north. I don't think it's an accident all three of those weapons have relatively good hand protection, knucklebow+ at least. I've played with tomahawks in the off hand and pretty much agree with everything you say. In most situations there are plenty of other things I'd rather have in the off-hand (shields are very nice, even tiny ones) but it definitely has uses. By the end of the video you listed many of them, and even included the idea that just because you have two you don't necessarily have to wield both at once, but I don't think you really mentioned throwing. Take a surprise strike from just outside of melee distance and still have an axe in hand as you move in behind it. Anyway, great video as usual, cheers!
I would love to see a video focusing on two knives and what the advantages and disadvantages would be. What context it may be useful if any, etc. Specifically Karl Tanner from Game of Thrones looked very fancy but I've always questioned the effectiveness against the bastard sword and whatnot. Would be a fun venture anyway. I like learning stuff. Thanks for the awesome vids Matt!
Could you please make a video describing the advantages of different axes and tomahawks? It would also be great if you could cover the difference between axes and tomahawks? Love your channel man. keep up the good work.
Thank you! The Axe and sword video prompted this question for me. :) I've never seen this outside of Wushu (and quite rare) and fantasy. As cool as it was to see Dwalin mowing through orcs with double axes, or read about Li Kui kicking all sorts of ass, or order the Tomahawk unit from Age of Empires III doing this, the limitations of this you illustrated quite well. And of course this also applies to maces and hammers-as much as I like having my D&D dwarf with a hammer in one hand and an axe in another, it wouldn't be ideal. The axe-shield combo dates back to the Sumerians and Egyptians, and was still being used by some native American groups (in the west) and South African groups (the Swazi especially) in the 19th century.
Great video as always, Matt! An unrelated question that you may discuss in a future video: Do you think that Custer's prohibition of taking sabres to the Little Bighorn battle may have influenced its result?
Brotherhood of the Wolf is under-rated, I am so glad you are familiar! There are numerous fight scenes and weapons which are somewhat outlandish, but the choreography uses them creatively, and in a way that still mixes in some viable martial arts. Also, the composition/storytelling is done well, using a loose historical basis.
Scenarios for wielding two axes: You, a true Scandinavian, are fighting against an impure Norman axeman with your axe and shield combo. The axeman destroys your shield with a chop, but you hook his with your axe beard. In the same tempo, you murder his face with a push, thrusting the top of the axe head. Quickly you pull your axe back, but because your instincts made you stupid when you saw movement on your peripheral, you accidentally rehooked his shield and it splintered due to the force of your axe beard retracting from the Norman's pulp-like face. Seeing another adversary rushing towards you and seeing the Norman's axe stuck in your damaged shield, you reluctantly pull out the Norman axe, hoping to hook this barbarian's spear and felling two soldiers in a day. You pray to the gods, hoping that your days are not numbered. *begin d20 die roll*
Hi Matt! What are your thoughts on southpaws in Hema? Wold be interesting to hear your thoughts as an experienced Hema practitioner and instructor. Don't know if you already talked about it, but could be a cool video. Haven't done much hema at this point unfortunately, but in muay thai I have found them to be occasionally frustrating. Great video btw!
A character from the the Song Dynasty novel, "The Water Margin", named Li Kui (Black Whirlwind), used double axes, and perhaps as a consequence, double axes remain common in some Chinese martial arts.
Hey I'm not sure if you've covered this topic in a previous video but what is your opinion on ambidextrous swordsmen and the importance of being capable of using both hands as a sword hand? I've noticed that many seem to have a signature sword hand is there a reason for this such as perfecting one dominate hand instead of wasting time on the other
Troy I'm pretty sure he's covered this before, either in its own video or during some of the ones he made during the period when his right hand was injured. I think he made one on left-handed swordsmen around that time, and he may have gone into detail on ambidextrousness in it.
Great video as always! I've used tomahawks in kali and messed around with one in each hand; it's my favourite weapon. Wether it's plausible or not, I don't know...but it's certainly a lot of fun training with two!
In Vikings Season 1 and 2, Jarl Borg is shown to fight with 2 axes. Its interesting to watch, being able to hook a shield with 1 axe and attack with the other in one fluid movement is a plus
I have worked with axes and axe style combat for almost 18 years and wondered about your opinion on fighting with different holds on the axes, since i do "dual wield" them so to speak. I use my shorter bladed, lighter hafted axe for striking and a fair amount of parrying (as much as you have with your hand at the base of the axe) and my longer bladed heavier axe is held at the head for parrying as my hand is guarded by the extended beard(Arms and armour type c axe). I use punch and moving parries as well as guarding and hooking in my techniques. My studies in the axe come from glima, kali, and irish shillelagh. I mostly use the shillelagh style for my off hand however i incorporate a mix of various styles to make it a viable offense and defense. Just wanted to know your opinion mate.
I am training reenactment and i have recently played with dual wielding axes in duels. In line battles they are of little use, unless you are in a flanking role or another role that requires a lot of running. I use two relatively light axes which roughly about the same size, i use 1 axe for defence and one for attack though which one is which depends on the opponent and his weapon/attacks. Depending on the opponent i am either on the offensive or defensive. I always watch my environment and foot work so that i can move around since i dont have a shield. One of the most regular things i do is that i am looking for an opportunity when the opponent attacks to use the hook on the axe to lock down his/her weapon, get in close (especially if it is something like a longsword or spear) and attack with the other. My main inspiration for using them this way is from the "First Law" books where several characters use a rapier in one hand and a parrying dagger in the other. Often we get into their perspective and the book tells in detail how they use their dagger and rapier in unison. It has had some success, but i am looking for ideas to improve this fighting style.
Love your channel man! I'm noticing that noone has done a review of the figure between gannicus and Spartacus at the Vesuvius Temple ruins? Idr exactly what episode it is lol crazy fight tho and as someone who trains in that same style I'd love to see a good review on it
Hi! I’m a fantasy writer and I love your videos. Is there any way that you could do a video about Katars? (Push daggers/scissor blades) I’m getting very mixed reviews.
I wonder how much FMA does Matt know, I was quite impressed to see it mentioned. I practiced it for a while, so, i quickly figured out that "doble baston" (read in spanish) techniques would fit well. What I thought, when talking about different weapons, was axe and short sword. Also, in my mandirigma (warrior, in tagalog) mindset, setting one hand for offense and the other for defense is wrong. I learned to used both hands to do everything, so the mandirigma has really 2 strong hands.
Matt, In Eskrima I've always seen having a weapon cocked behind the head/over the shoulder be highly discouraged because it limits the number of angles that weapon can attack from and because it makes it easy to jam up that arm and prevent attacks all together. That is with sticks though, do you find it's necessary to cock an axe like that for a good wallop? I've got no experience with axes just sticks. great work like always, cheers!
something that you didn't mention, is that sometimes hooking things can be accidental and not advantageous (like if both were not expecting it and you both have to rethink your now entangled motions) and in that case having a second sharp thing would be quite handy.
My question is, how effective would martial arts be with 2 axes so something like boxing, or muay thai, were you add in leg kicks or maybe even kick boxing?
I train using two hatchets (short handles) for several reasons 1. ambidextrous training skills should you sustain an injury to one arm, 2. being short in stature, it is preferable to get in close and "choke" any swing, and 3. it has a psychological affect of which swing to defend against. As a Maori, traditional defense was in the footwork, and with a short handled club the point of balance is better for strikes.
Question: If you're going into battle, and your only options of weapons are a two-handed greatsword and a shield, would you one-hand the greatsword with the shield or would you give up the shield for two-handing the sword?
do you have the armor that the two handed greatsword was almost always used with? two handed weapons like greatswords weren't popular until armor was protective enough that shields were unnecessary, so if the armor is available then no question really, if that level of armor is not available, it becomes a much more difficult question, but wielding the greatsword similar to a short one-handed spear in conjunction with a shield might be manageable.
Vin of Steel This is just my tuppence (based on a few years of martial arts and swordsmanship practice). Go for just the sword - if you have even the slightest incling on how to use it. A two hander has great defensive and offensive capabilities, even in relatively cramped quarters, when used right. If you have no training whatsoever and just need to get out (and there's some slim chance of doing so) then just a shield might be a better option. Unless you are a monster of muscle, don't take both. And even if you have muscle to back it up, I would not recommend it - two hander for the win in that case.
Jon Goat Depends on the shield. A strapped on kite shield, sure - well maybe, but bucklers, round shields and others are generally gripped in the boss and even if holding a weapon is possible (like a dagger with a buckler) it does limit your movement of the weapon. With anything bigger than a buckler I think the awkwardness of it all takes away the defensive gain. But hey, this seems like a fun area to do some experiments!
What about choking up 2/3 the way on the handle with the none dominant hand? You can still chop and hook, but it will also protect the underside of your wrist and lower forearm for blocks. This seems better than reversing the axe so the head is under the hand. Thoughts? Cheers Matt!
I really like that bigger axe you had in your right hand with the bearded blade. Does it have a name? What about having an axe in one hand and a knife/dagger in the other? Maybe hooking with the axe and slashing with the knife?
I do believe the Franks did it times. They had fairly light heads and short hafts as I recall. And carried a brace of them as they also used them as projectiles. And you're right the Chinese do indeed have two ax styles. Though every demonstration I've seen has fairly heavy heads and choke up to right behind the ax head. Which is another thing you can do, using the haft to protect your forearm. I do agree using one with a shield is a better option.
Matt could you do a video on the sparing equipment HEMA people use and good places to get it? For us non HEMA people. I would like to add more weapon sparing to my classes and I think the equipment would be great.
Hey Matt, would oyu please make a video on the scotish spiked targe, and on the scottish fighting with a dirk & shield in the left hand and a basket-hilt sword on the right?
Over here in the "Mericas", our people used double axe even though the axe knife combo was preferred. Our shield made from buffalo rawhide was tough enough to repel bullets. Native martial arts
It occurs to me that it might be very effictive used similar to butterfly swords - doing the double attack where one weapon parries the attack while the other goes for the opponent weapon hand .
So I know that sai are often used in pairs, and I've been toying with the idea of flipping mine around and mordhau-ing with them, to convert them into blunt little axes. The weapon already emphasizes quick changes in grip anyway. I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts/is still reading the comments on this video.
What if you were to use the defending axe in a sort of "harrying" manner as well...as a boxer might with a lead jabbing hand...perhaps to give light thrusts and feints in addition to defending/hooking?
I suggest the film Bang Rajan (and Bang Rajan 2 I guess) to anyone interested in dual wielding. A thai film about a village defending against the Burmese army, based on historical facts. The film features a "berserker" dual wielding axes while riding a water buffalo. If I remember correctly, in the second movie there is a whole squad of them. Did I mention that all of the "normal" thai fighters fight with slim dual swords? (Elven style.) The burmese army I think is less exotic, sword and buckler. But I am not sure, it's been a while. A must see anyway!
If I'm right the Polynesians or Philippinos had a 2-axe martial art or style. The berserker in For Honor uses it for their animations. (Edit: Nvm, he addresses it briefly.)
In the Hercules movie with "the Rock", one of his soldiers uses the double axe technique. It looks real cool on the screen, not sure how it would really fair.
+scholagladiatoria Hey Matt, the Huntsman had dual wield hatchet fights too. There was a scene where Chris executed a chop in the reverse grip with his hatchet. I'm not too sure about axe fighting so could I get your input on that? I'm intrigued by how effective it is because from my understanding, slashing with a weapon in a reverse grip has a lot less leverage therefore it has less power behind the strike. However, with an axe, the balance is different compared to a dagger/knife/sword. Most of the weight is at the axe head which means that there's a momentum backing of the attack although i do have my doubts regarding combat effectiveness as to how quickly can one retract after striking. Can it be used effectively in certain circumstances or is that just another hollywood dance move?
Suggestion. spear and axe. strange combo? maybe. but supposedly it was a combo that is recorded for viking times that might actually be worth looking at.
the Chinese Ming dynasty (14th to 17th) century novel about the Song dynasty (around 12th century) called the Water Margin features a character called the Black Whirlwind. The Black Whirlwinds weapons of choice were two short axes (likely held closely to the axehead, giving him short range but greater speed and control).
they called his style "Three Axes" because he would execute his attacks in trios. for example strike, block, strike. strike, strike, strike. block, strike, block.
Looking it up in English might be difficult. The Chinese search terms you could look for are 李逵 (Li Kui - the Name of the Black Whirlwind), 黑旋风 (Hei Xuan Feng - Black Whirlwind), 三板斧 (San Ban Fu - Three Axes), 水浒传 (Shui Hu Zhuan - The Water Margin)
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This is how dual axes work:
STEP 1: find 2 heavy axes
STEP 2: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
Heinrich Dethahal VALHALLA
MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES
Dual wield chain axes FOR THE WIN!!
I see a norscan fond a computer
*S I G M A R* preserve us... a heretic.
"And IF you are NOT subscribed...." says the man with a freaking axe in the hand, in menacing position... that is one tactic, I suppose.
palabragris With an axe in each hand.
How do you think he got Lucy to marry him?
CarnalKid
Yeild Woman!
It was pretty convincing. I subscribed. XD
Bearded Bjorn yield.
"Having two sticks is advantageous over having one stick"
- Matt Easton 2k17
CONTEXT!
@@Halloyaw11 double dick surprise incoming
I only have one, but its BIG
I've only now realized how impressive these videos are that they're done in one take with such good flow.
Thanks.
two stick better than one stick.
stone age wisdom.
Sutorenja this is a advanced stick used for killing
Shouldn't it be Stick Age wisdom?😀
who are you who are so wise in the ways of science
What about dual wielding shields?
Mistaa Spaakles Bucklers might work? Maybe with spikes on them so you could offend and defend at the same time. :p
Great question, mate! :)))
I'm reasonably sure there exists a treatise for that.
i think there's a term for that. Gauntlets or something or other :')
Lmao, I meant to say could and would it be viable not if it actually existed.
If you have the choice between Two axes and just one axe.... and you prefer just having one... take the two axes and throw one to your oponent face :)
wazdakka And just give your enemy an extra axe!?
Well dual wielding without developed dual wielding skills will result in penalties, so hopefully the enemy picks up the axe in confusion and ends up with less attack points.
dont worry, your enemy have only two hands. And looking down and bend to pick up the axe from ground is not a smart move either.
you don' give him an extre axe if he is dead with an axe stick into his skull XD and yes if you miss the axe is probably far behind him or at his feet and in that case, bend to grab it is a pretty dangerous move.... beacause the axe thrower didn't juste wait while his axe was flying and is probably charging you use the distraction he made by throwing a F***** axe towards you
tbh having anything in your off hand (specially in an unarmored fight) a stick, a stool, a cloak or indeed an axe even if you hold it at the wrong end, must bring you massive advantage over single hand/single weapon option.
I've been thinking about this, in the light of the most recent islamic terror attack in London with knives. Having your hard shell laptop rucksack with the laptop in it covering the lines and you extend it away from your body...congratulations you just reinvented the buckler. Better than nothing imho.
Thank you for equating this to fighting with 2 sticks. Dual welding is dual welding, each weapon type brings specific nuances unique to that weapon to the fight.
Been training and fighting in "dual wield" formats since 1982. From SCA, Adrian Empire, Renaissance, some time training from/with friends in AMA, WMA, HEMA, amongst others, including non weaponed combat formats/forms (eastern and western) from 1978 forward. Prior was boxing and wrestling from 1970 forward courtesy of my father. I am still a student and have learned how much I still need to study practice and learn.
I believe a very serious misconception of dual wielding is: one weapon/hand for offense and one for defense. Don't cheat yourself nor give your opponent an advantage.
Dual wielding any matched weapons in theory is extremely simple. It takes years of training to excel, and with any dual wielding, it looks sloppy as crap most of the time if approached incorrectly.
Before I work with anyone choosing to dual wield, I insist they spend 6 months to a year fighting single weapon "off handed" for at least 60% or more of their practice. The remainder is fighting with your usual choice of weapon and shield or long sword, "off handed," and switching handedness after every victory.
Once this has been done they are ready to bring it all together. If you do not train mind and body to fight with your "off hand" you will only have a single sided approach. At this juncture you are simultaneously fighting single weapon with both hands. Your mind and body flows and performs equally offensively or defensively with either hand in that split second as the fight dictates the need. Your foot work is the primary defense and shield work. That is not to say your weapons are not used defensively but differently as the weapon they are if you defend single weapon with either hand, body positioning always supporting the movement fluidly, setting the offense up with either weapon at the same moment.
The trick is taking the single weapon combat in either hand and bringing them together so each hand supports the other throughout., Including footwork. Be it obliques movements so body positioning "re-chambers" the weapon through natural motion, countering the added potentially odd weight, or slowness of the ax. Just as such movement creates greater opportunity and faster strike opportunities in single weapon combat, it is absolutely necessary in ax fighting.
I also don't see ax fighters spending anywhere near enough time on hooking, getting hooked & bound, the limited variety/methods of releases available and the avenues of attack they set up for and against you. Experienced fighters will set the hook up and control you with that bind. If you don't train equally on how to release from the variety of binds that can be used against you, the ax is a detriment.
The argument, was it done historically has gone on for some time notwithstanding viking sagas that may be interpreted as dual wield or single weapon being wield in either hand throughout a single fight.
my 50 cents....
Axes were also used by the Eastern Romans (byzantines) and many Goth/Saxons/Normans/Franks etc. The Eastern Roman Axe was used by the infantrty with a shield and it was recommended that it also have a small point in the opposite side of the axe to penetrate helmets/lamellar etc. So more like an axe with a small pick. Other axe variations were the 2-bladed axe & the single blade axe. It was called Tzikourion from the latin Securis & the word still survives into Greek as Τσεκουρι -Tsekouri/Tzekouri.
“ a whopping great whop” I need to pepper that into my daily conversations
There is one historical depiction that I know of, showing double-wielded axes, on the Glamis Manse Cross. Unfortunately for its credibility, though, the figure wielding them is a centaur...
(PS: I am surprised that nobody else has mentioned this)
There are some accounts in the Norse sagas where a second ax was held hidden in the same hand with their shield
That is a technique I employ a lot
I don't think I've heard of a second axe behind a shield, but I have definitely heard of a seax being used in such a way, so I suppose it could theoretically work with a particularly spiky axe as well.
Throw one axe and then take the one you held with your shield hand to use in melee.
I have heard of the axe held in the same hand as the shield as well, but in the situation I read this specific Norseman's primary weapon was a sword.
Devin Stromgren it was the spear. Swords or axes were secondary weapons if not two handed axes. Spear and shield were the usual choice. Swords were expensive. You had a weapon for range and obe for close combat. So a spear and a sax, a spear and an axe, a spear and a sword, a danish two handed axe and a sax, etc. a sword combined with an axe would be not that effective.
I think "Vikings" had Ragnar fighting with two axes at some point.
For dual wielding axes I suppose one should be thrown (like francisca), then one used for melee. Or you throw both, then run.
Jürgen Sven Fuchs Or you throw both then run that cracked me up hahahahahahaha
Jürgen Sven Fuchs it wasn't ragnar it was jarl borg all thourgh season 2
I think Egyptian had a specialized army using throwing axes.
Yes! There was several scenes with different characters. Ragnar was dual wielding swords, I think. Fighting with dual wielding weapons but using them for the same action instead of using them for different actions in different directions.
I believe dual wielding shields, throwing them both and charging is more effective.
I lost a year of my life everytime a character in that show charged into the enemy while holding two axes instead of just grabbing a flippin' shield.
What about dual wielding spears, the ultimate range advantage in melee
Xarias Fury with heads on both sides of the spears. Also remember to never stop spinning about, truly the ultimate weapon.
Two pommels in the front, and two pommels at the back. You will be a god of war.
Spinning is important. Context.
Sorry but the ultimate combo is dual wielding ballistas.
Skeggs of Horkabjork that's just a pole hammer.
Main problem with duel wielding axes: You can't throw a pommel
Pretty sure that's the same problem with single axes as well. Can't end them rightly.
That's why you should duel wield maces. A mace is a pommel on a stick.
Gotta end 'em rightly!
Naw. Axemen don't care to end them "rightly". We're happy to end them wrongly. Very, very wrongly...
Just carry a bag of pommels
I love the fact that you are able to state that this wasn't really done historically, but still go through with entertaining whether or not it could be a practical approach to combat. Too many people would quickly dismiss this as a "no this was never done and you shouldn't do it" sort of thing, but I think there is a lot of value in toying with the idea and demonstrating it, if only to see the WHY behind the fact that it wasn't used (or was rarely used) historically. Bring on more of these sorts of videos!
I am, in fact, here for whatever.
You could probably dual-wield axes using some escrima-like figure 8 technique, but unless you're trained at that, you're probably better off with just one axe. It takes a lot of coordination. Still, I'd rather have an axe shield combination.
There is a middle ground, like he says at 12:24. Use one like you normally would, with the other one basically like a parrying dagger
Josh Starkley
You're right, that's like a nerfed figure 8, but easier to coordinate and probably better than a single axe.
Boring.
Brotherhood of the wolf is a great film, but very few people i know have seen it :o
If I could only watch one TH-cam channel, it would be this one. Entertaining and educational.
Edutainment!
Can i say, pommel ?
I have to say. Fighting with two axes, utilizing all those options hooking, turning one axe around to defend with a "stick" and just those fluent motions of defending and attacking at the same time, would make for great visuals for a movie.
I was expecting that axe to come flying at the camera when you were swinging it
I was thinking the same thing!
On the point of axes (also other one handed weapons that aren't swords e.g. maces) how do you carry them around obviously you have sword suspensions for scabbards but I really woud like to know how they would be carried.
Its in the bloopers reel ;)
there was an older RPG I played that made the distinction between axe types. The woodsmans axe was slow and heavy. I know IRL a "Wood axe" can come in many different versions. The game version was the classic firemans axe shape. IIRC the executioners axe hit like a truck, but it also left you open to attack on the next turn. So I guess they at least tried with that one.
Can you do a video about tomahawk and dagger?
I have to say, the moment I saw you locking the axe onto the upper edge of that shield, I saw the main reason I'd want two axes. One crazy double axeman in the middle of a battle of men with shields and swords would be a terrifying change of pace to encounter. He takes momentary control of your shield as only an axe can, and then hits you around it with another one. You'd have to be very quick attacking his arm or axe haft to stop it.
I like to imagine a scared cameraman dodging axeblows thoughout the video
:grunts and pelvic thrusts in a small awkward circle:
BERSERKER
Dual axes is the ultimate way to run through a melee, parrying, hooking and striking. It's all about distance and aggressively CLOSING distance to remove the opponent's advantage. Hook and bind their weapon and charge in on them. Knock them over. Longswords and other lengthy weapons are useless if both your timing AND luck are good. Finally, and here's a dirty trick I learned in the heat of a match, if you and another axe wielder hook axes and get into a momentary tugging match: reverse the force and punch them in the chest with the head of your axe. If you give up on the tug-of-war just one instant😊 sooner and thrust forward, your opponent will not only be completely off guard but also off balance. It's bloodthirsty and brutal, up close and personal with two axes and that's why it's my favorite fighting style.
Matt, you are absolutely right about Kung fu...your discussion of dual axes versus spears is also spot on. Baguazhang has a weapon that is very closely associated with it called alternatively Deer Antler Knives or Axes and Mandarin Duck Knives or Axes. They are were explicitly designed for the purpose of hooking, locking and cutting when fighting against spearmen. They were favored by students of this style as personal weapons that can be concealed on the body when serving as a bodyguard.
I'm here because I pretty much always learn something from your videos ;-) Having said that, I have a slightly unhealthy fascination with axes, so thanks for this one in particular!
Ok, I actually have a question now. Using a second axe as a "parrying stick": Wouldn't that leave your hand terribly vulnerable? I kinda winced just watching you holding it like that.
One weird peccadillo I found with using two axes. I found it much easier to use two axes if they both have much shorter hafts, like hatchets. Odd because I don't find the same thing when using two versus one stick of the same length as an axe haft.
Man Matt Easton would have messed those London Bridge guys up good.
Johny Ricco And then be prosecuted for a hate crime and labeled an Islamaphobe.
How much did people fight as individuals back then as opposed to fighting as a group?
I could see someone with two axes hooking the shields of two guys facing him while his buddies stab both of the opponents with spears. If he had only one buddy who wasn't busy, his left hand ax could hook the side of his left opponent's shield and rotate that opponent enough to prevent a good counterstroke while his right hand ax hooking the shield of the opponent on his right would create enough opening for a single buddy to attack the opponent. Then, he and his buddy would be two-against-one on the remaining opponent.
I'm still subscribed but the notifications of some of your newer videos were delayed, but the problem appears to have resolved itself. You may want to make sure to remind people to check the channel page from time to time, if they don't hear anything. Might slip their minds. Keep it up Matt, thanks.
*sees thumbnail*
Oh, a new FudgeMuppet video!
*clicks*
Wait a second...
Thanks for the video. Re Kung Fu etc. two 'cleavers' is pretty common but axes aren't really. Best I know the most common dual-wielding weapons for chinese martial was the hudiedao (a matched pair of cleavers) in the south and the lujiaodao and/or fu tao (crescent knives/hook swords) in the north. I don't think it's an accident all three of those weapons have relatively good hand protection, knucklebow+ at least. I've played with tomahawks in the off hand and pretty much agree with everything you say. In most situations there are plenty of other things I'd rather have in the off-hand (shields are very nice, even tiny ones) but it definitely has uses. By the end of the video you listed many of them, and even included the idea that just because you have two you don't necessarily have to wield both at once, but I don't think you really mentioned throwing. Take a surprise strike from just outside of melee distance and still have an axe in hand as you move in behind it. Anyway, great video as usual, cheers!
I would love to see a video focusing on two knives and what the advantages and disadvantages would be. What context it may be useful if any, etc. Specifically Karl Tanner from Game of Thrones looked very fancy but I've always questioned the effectiveness against the bastard sword and whatnot. Would be a fun venture anyway. I like learning stuff. Thanks for the awesome vids Matt!
Great vids bud love listening to this stuff
Subscribed because you asked so nicely and you're entertaining.
Could you please make a video describing the advantages of different axes and tomahawks? It would also be great if you could cover the difference between axes and tomahawks? Love your channel man. keep up the good work.
A tomahawk is a type of axe :)
Thank you! The Axe and sword video prompted this question for me. :)
I've never seen this outside of Wushu (and quite rare) and fantasy. As cool as it was to see Dwalin mowing through orcs with double axes, or read about Li Kui kicking all sorts of ass, or order the Tomahawk unit from Age of Empires III doing this, the limitations of this you illustrated quite well. And of course this also applies to maces and hammers-as much as I like having my D&D dwarf with a hammer in one hand and an axe in another, it wouldn't be ideal.
The axe-shield combo dates back to the Sumerians and Egyptians, and was still being used by some native American groups (in the west) and South African groups (the Swazi especially) in the 19th century.
Great video as always, Matt!
An unrelated question that you may discuss in a future video: Do you think that Custer's prohibition of taking sabres to the Little Bighorn battle may have influenced its result?
Brotherhood of the Wolf is under-rated, I am so glad you are familiar! There are numerous fight scenes and weapons which are somewhat outlandish, but the choreography uses them creatively, and in a way that still mixes in some viable martial arts.
Also, the composition/storytelling is done well, using a loose historical basis.
I like that film a lot.
Scenarios for wielding two axes: You, a true Scandinavian, are fighting against an impure Norman axeman with your axe and shield combo. The axeman destroys your shield with a chop, but you hook his with your axe beard. In the same tempo, you murder his face with a push, thrusting the top of the axe head. Quickly you pull your axe back, but because your instincts made you stupid when you saw movement on your peripheral, you accidentally rehooked his shield and it splintered due to the force of your axe beard retracting from the Norman's pulp-like face.
Seeing another adversary rushing towards you and seeing the Norman's axe stuck in your damaged shield, you reluctantly pull out the Norman axe, hoping to hook this barbarian's spear and felling two soldiers in a day. You pray to the gods, hoping that your days are not numbered.
*begin d20 die roll*
But one question remains: What are you trying to compensate with your edgyness?
Im glad you mentioned Brotherhood of the Wolf. My favourite film of all time! Might be some interesting scenes to critique in that one :-)
I really want to see Matt in a sparring match with dual axes against a Spearman.
I want what's in the background. Some lovely weapons you have there. Gives me a woodie!
Hi Matt! What are your thoughts on southpaws in Hema? Wold be interesting to hear your thoughts as an experienced Hema practitioner and instructor.
Don't know if you already talked about it, but could be a cool video. Haven't done much hema at this point unfortunately, but in muay thai I have found them to be occasionally frustrating.
Great video btw!
Li Kui, or 'Black Whirlwind,' from the 14th century Chinese novel 'The Water Margin,' was a famous dual axe wielding fighter.
A character from the the Song Dynasty novel, "The Water Margin", named Li Kui (Black Whirlwind), used double axes, and perhaps as a consequence, double axes remain common in some Chinese martial arts.
Hey I'm not sure if you've covered this topic in a previous video but what is your opinion on ambidextrous swordsmen and the importance of being capable of using both hands as a sword hand? I've noticed that many seem to have a signature sword hand is there a reason for this such as perfecting one dominate hand instead of wasting time on the other
Troy I'm pretty sure he's covered this before, either in its own video or during some of the ones he made during the period when his right hand was injured. I think he made one on left-handed swordsmen around that time, and he may have gone into detail on ambidextrousness in it.
Pretty sure this is covered in the treatise of '73 (revised in '87) D P Roberts vs I Montoya by W Goldman
It would help but the weaker left had isn't the primary difficulty of duel wielding.
Great video as always! I've used tomahawks in kali and messed around with one in each hand; it's my favourite weapon. Wether it's plausible or not, I don't know...but it's certainly a lot of fun training with two!
In Vikings Season 1 and 2, Jarl Borg is shown to fight with 2 axes. Its interesting to watch, being able to hook a shield with 1 axe and attack with the other in one fluid movement is a plus
It is so refreshing to see someone who actually gets how martial arts are related. Kudos to you brother ...
some of the dual wielding and other weapons Vs other weapon videos tend to get somewhat repetitive but this one stayed interesting, cheers mate!😉
I have worked with axes and axe style combat for almost 18 years and wondered about your opinion on fighting with different holds on the axes, since i do "dual wield" them so to speak. I use my shorter bladed, lighter hafted axe for striking and a fair amount of parrying (as much as you have with your hand at the base of the axe) and my longer bladed heavier axe is held at the head for parrying as my hand is guarded by the extended beard(Arms and armour type c axe). I use punch and moving parries as well as guarding and hooking in my techniques. My studies in the axe come from glima, kali, and irish shillelagh. I mostly use the shillelagh style for my off hand however i incorporate a mix of various styles to make it a viable offense and defense. Just wanted to know your opinion mate.
you should definitely filmed and upload it. Would be interesting to experiment with
I am training reenactment and i have recently played with dual wielding axes in duels. In line battles they are of little use, unless you are in a flanking role or another role that requires a lot of running.
I use two relatively light axes which roughly about the same size, i use 1 axe for defence and one for attack though which one is which depends on the opponent and his weapon/attacks. Depending on the opponent i am either on the offensive or defensive. I always watch my environment and foot work so that i can move around since i dont have a shield.
One of the most regular things i do is that i am looking for an opportunity when the opponent attacks to use the hook on the axe to lock down his/her weapon, get in close (especially if it is something like a longsword or spear) and attack with the other.
My main inspiration for using them this way is from the "First Law" books where several characters use a rapier in one hand and a parrying dagger in the other. Often we get into their perspective and the book tells in detail how they use their dagger and rapier in unison.
It has had some success, but i am looking for ideas to improve this fighting style.
Im glad he mentioned brotherhood of the wolf. That is one of my favorite movies.
Thanks! Informative and interesting.
I did like the "whop with a whopping great whop" bit.
Great video, thank you! Start watching your channel because creating medievalish fantasy world and want it to have some semblance of realism
Love your channel man! I'm noticing that noone has done a review of the figure between gannicus and Spartacus at the Vesuvius Temple ruins? Idr exactly what episode it is lol crazy fight tho and as someone who trains in that same style I'd love to see a good review on it
17:47 - really scary axe move. It caught me out, and now I'm stunned on the ground.
I am a new subscriber so may have missed them but have you done many videos on spears?
Hi! I’m a fantasy writer and I love your videos. Is there any way that you could do a video about Katars? (Push daggers/scissor blades) I’m getting very mixed reviews.
double Spears? talk about that next
Gee Robert! How come your liege lets you wield two spears?
romans had those pila and javelin , most of the time they were thrown ,
Many armies used spears that could be thrown or used in hand to hand combat. The Zulu armies being particularly notable.
Diarmuid ua duibhne
who makes the larger axe you were using? another great video by the way.
Great video content!
How would you effectively counter someone who was trying to hook your shield away with an axe or a bill/halberd?
I wonder how much FMA does Matt know, I was quite impressed to see it mentioned. I practiced it for a while, so, i quickly figured out that "doble baston" (read in spanish) techniques would fit well.
What I thought, when talking about different weapons, was axe and short sword.
Also, in my mandirigma (warrior, in tagalog) mindset, setting one hand for offense and the other for defense is wrong. I learned to used both hands to do everything, so the mandirigma has really 2 strong hands.
I really like the off-hand upside down axe concept and would like you to cover it in more depth (if there's any other ground to cover with it.)
Matt, In Eskrima I've always seen having a weapon cocked behind the head/over the shoulder be highly discouraged because it limits the number of angles that weapon can attack from and because it makes it easy to jam up that arm and prevent attacks all together. That is with sticks though, do you find it's necessary to cock an axe like that for a good wallop? I've got no experience with axes just sticks.
great work like always, cheers!
Jeffery Lutz over the shoulder guards are common in many sword systems. When I trained Lacoste Kali it was common, especially in Siniwali.
Good stuff but you don't need me to tell us that I'm a new sub and definitely diggin the channel man
I'm viewing this for a book I'm writing, but damn I'm hooked on the history bits
something that you didn't mention, is that sometimes hooking things can be accidental and not advantageous (like if both were not expecting it and you both have to rethink your now entangled motions) and in that case having a second sharp thing would be quite handy.
Checked, still subscribed! xD love your channel!
My question is, how effective would martial arts be with 2 axes so something like boxing, or muay thai, were you add in leg kicks or maybe even kick boxing?
I just kept thinking he would accidentally let go of that axe lmao
I train using two hatchets (short handles) for several reasons 1. ambidextrous training skills should you sustain an injury to one arm, 2. being short in stature, it is preferable to get in close and "choke" any swing, and 3. it has a psychological affect of which swing to defend against. As a Maori, traditional defense was in the footwork, and with a short handled club the point of balance is better for strikes.
Question: If you're going into battle, and your only options of weapons are a two-handed greatsword and a shield, would you one-hand the greatsword with the shield or would you give up the shield for two-handing the sword?
Vin of Steel
I am actually interested in hearing his response to this.
do you have the armor that the two handed greatsword was almost always used with? two handed weapons like greatswords weren't popular until armor was protective enough that shields were unnecessary, so if the armor is available then no question really, if that level of armor is not available, it becomes a much more difficult question, but wielding the greatsword similar to a short one-handed spear in conjunction with a shield might be manageable.
Vin of Steel
This is just my tuppence (based on a few years of martial arts and swordsmanship practice). Go for just the sword - if you have even the slightest incling on how to use it. A two hander has great defensive and offensive capabilities, even in relatively cramped quarters, when used right. If you have no training whatsoever and just need to get out (and there's some slim chance of doing so) then just a shield might be a better option.
Unless you are a monster of muscle, don't take both. And even if you have muscle to back it up, I would not recommend it - two hander for the win in that case.
Jon Goat
Depends on the shield. A strapped on kite shield, sure - well maybe, but bucklers, round shields and others are generally gripped in the boss and even if holding a weapon is possible (like a dagger with a buckler) it does limit your movement of the weapon. With anything bigger than a buckler I think the awkwardness of it all takes away the defensive gain.
But hey, this seems like a fun area to do some experiments!
Take both. Size up your enemy. Size up your allies. Decide accordingly.
What about choking up 2/3 the way on the handle with the none dominant hand? You can still chop and hook, but it will also protect the underside of your wrist and lower forearm for blocks. This seems better than reversing the axe so the head is under the hand. Thoughts? Cheers Matt!
Great video! If you have the opportunity sometime, I'd like to hear your thoughts on tomahawk and knife, please. Thanks!
I really like that bigger axe you had in your right hand with the bearded blade. Does it have a name?
What about having an axe in one hand and a knife/dagger in the other? Maybe hooking with the axe and slashing with the knife?
I do believe the Franks did it times. They had fairly light heads and short hafts as I recall. And carried a brace of them as they also used them as projectiles.
And you're right the Chinese do indeed have two ax styles. Though every demonstration I've seen has fairly heavy heads and choke up to right behind the ax head. Which is another thing you can do, using the haft to protect your forearm.
I do agree using one with a shield is a better option.
Matt could you do a video on the sparing equipment HEMA people use and good places to get it? For us non HEMA people. I would like to add more weapon sparing to my classes and I think the equipment would be great.
Need video on great axes!!
Hey Matt, would oyu please make a video on the scotish spiked targe, and on the scottish fighting with a dirk & shield in the left hand and a basket-hilt sword on the right?
Over here in the "Mericas", our people used double axe even though the axe knife combo was preferred. Our shield made from buffalo rawhide was tough enough to repel bullets. Native martial arts
It occurs to me that it might be very effictive used similar to butterfly swords - doing the double attack where one weapon parries the attack while the other goes for the opponent weapon hand .
So I know that sai are often used in pairs, and I've been toying with the idea of flipping mine around and mordhau-ing with them, to convert them into blunt little axes. The weapon already emphasizes quick changes in grip anyway.
I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts/is still reading the comments on this video.
What if you were to use the defending axe in a sort of "harrying" manner as well...as a boxer might with a lead jabbing hand...perhaps to give light thrusts and feints in addition to defending/hooking?
Is there any you could do a fight review on the end of last of the mohicans. Would love to hear your thoughts.
I suggest the film Bang Rajan (and Bang Rajan 2 I guess) to anyone interested in dual wielding. A thai film about a village defending against the Burmese army, based on historical facts. The film features a "berserker" dual wielding axes while riding a water buffalo. If I remember correctly, in the second movie there is a whole squad of them. Did I mention that all of the "normal" thai fighters fight with slim dual swords? (Elven style.) The burmese army I think is less exotic, sword and buckler. But I am not sure, it's been a while. A must see anyway!
If I'm right the Polynesians or Philippinos had a 2-axe martial art or style. The berserker in For Honor uses it for their animations.
(Edit: Nvm, he addresses it briefly.)
your axe looks beautiful, where do you aquire such a beauty?
In the Hercules movie with "the Rock", one of his soldiers uses the double axe technique. It looks real cool on the screen, not sure how it would really fair.
+scholagladiatoria Hey Matt, the Huntsman had dual wield hatchet fights too. There was a scene where Chris executed a chop in the reverse grip with his hatchet. I'm not too sure about axe fighting so could I get your input on that? I'm intrigued by how effective it is because from my understanding, slashing with a weapon in a reverse grip has a lot less leverage therefore it has less power behind the strike. However, with an axe, the balance is different compared to a dagger/knife/sword. Most of the weight is at the axe head which means that there's a momentum backing of the attack although i do have my doubts regarding combat effectiveness as to how quickly can one retract after striking. Can it be used effectively in certain circumstances or is that just another hollywood dance move?
Could you do a video a bout Chinese spear fighting?
Suggestion. spear and axe. strange combo? maybe. but supposedly it was a combo that is recorded for viking times that might actually be worth looking at.
Matt, what if an axe like that one had a crossguard and/or full finger guard? How would that help or hinder it's combat effectiveness?
the Chinese Ming dynasty (14th to 17th) century novel about the Song dynasty (around 12th century) called the Water Margin features a character called the Black Whirlwind. The Black Whirlwinds weapons of choice were two short axes (likely held closely to the axehead, giving him short range but greater speed and control).
they called his style "Three Axes" because he would execute his attacks in trios. for example strike, block, strike. strike, strike, strike. block, strike, block.
Fascinating! I'll look that up.
Looking it up in English might be difficult. The Chinese search terms you could look for are 李逵 (Li Kui - the Name of the Black Whirlwind), 黑旋风 (Hei Xuan Feng - Black Whirlwind), 三板斧 (San Ban Fu - Three Axes), 水浒传 (Shui Hu Zhuan - The Water Margin)
If I ever start a band, I will call it Blunt Trauma.