I love how TFS made him pretty much not care for anyone else and instead make his rage at the stupid time traveling story the reason for his transformation.
Episode of Bardock has always felt like something I should hate, but just don't. To me it's ascended fan fiction, no more damaging to the franchise than all the fan service in Dragon Ball Fusions. Just like Goku meeting Gine it's fan pandering self indulgent shlock that's fine on it's own but I'd never want to see it in the series proper. Overall, I view it as a harmless "What-if" for kicks and giggles... now Dragon Ball Minus, that's a completely different story.
+Hail Zeon Out of curiosity, do you think given the requirement that Bardock had to go Super Saiyan any author, however talented or on top of their game, could have made a decent story out of it? Or was Episode of Bardock ruined from the start?
The mere idea of continuing Bardock's story and making him a Super Saiyan is just a terrible idea that completely goes against what the Bardock Special was about. As stupid as it was, Episode of Bardock is about as good as that concept was gonna turn out.
That's pretty much how I feel. It's just a nothing special that's sort of half enjoyable for what it is. I've never considered it as anything even remotely relevant to 'actual Dragon Ball', so it's as you say, a weird 'ascended fan fiction'. Dragon Ball Minus is from the pen of the author - it's the perfect retort to people who cry, "You only like Super because of Toriyama's involvement". Well, no, when Toriyama shits out garbage like Dragon Ball Minus, he most certainly does not get a pass. Minus is just... Eurgh.
Back when Hail Zeon was making videos on SSJ4 vs SSG, Geekdom was just popping off, Mike from Laughing Stock Media made decent content... that was the revival of Dragon Ball for me. I literally never missed one of yalls videos...now I get Geekdom notifications and ignore half of them and check on Zeon once every 6 months to see maybe I can relive that moment in time. Back then when ya'll were all cool with each other growing your channels... that was the shit.
To be fair, that is in character for him. I can definitely see him stealing those cakes, selling them on the black market, admitting it on a press conference and somehow managing to use it as a platform to get him into the White House! Now, the Joker, on the other hand, he would do that just for shits and giggles. And to piss off Batman! And then he would fill the cakes with Joker Gas and donate the cakes to an orphanage, but that's because he has to get rid of the cakes somehow.
Minus is an abomination. That is now being animated. In a story that has nothing to do with it. Why couldn't Toriyama forget about it like most things?
My standard word on Bardock is "He's one of my favorite characters in Dragon Ball... if I ignore everything featuring him after the Bardock TV Special."
You know, I think I dislike Dragon Ball Minus a little more than Episode of Bardock for the sole reason that it was written by Toriyama. Episode of Bardock was written by a fan author as promotion for some video games, so it's easy for me to say "Eh, it doesn't count" and ignore it. That's a lot harder when a "story" that sucks is written by the original author of the series, in tandem with something that connects back to the current Dragon Ball media (Jaco appearing in Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super.)
And its even more frustrating to read DB Minus because Toriyama himself admitted he couldn't write a story like Bardock's and proceeds to try and make one.
I honestly speculate that the only reason Minus was done, was just to promote Jaco. Its also the only reason Jaco in in the DB Universe even though he literally does nothing relevant. It was a sad attempt to piggyback off of DB's popularity for the sake of making obscure work for the audience.
Episode of Bardock being explicitly a what-if scenario created to provide backstory for Heroes pretty much keeps me from feeling any anger towards it. It's intended as a fun side thing and nothing more. Only it falls flat of being fun for the most part. The fact Toriyama himself shots down the concept of a Freeza race dating from before King Cold (as he was the result of a mutation that basically started a new species) already tells this special's events are barely worth mentioning.
@Lloyd Irving not really; Have you read Jaco? Pretty early during serialization there were already pretty strong hints the manga was connected to Dragon Ball. To the point fans would argue endlessly if it was indeed the case or Toriyama just reusing some stuf. Even without Minus Jaco is already strongly connected to Dragon Ball and the gradual reveal it takes place before it is pretty well executed. Minus is its own thing, and doesn't make Jaco any more or less connected do DB than he already was during his own story.
+42Caio (Caio Esteves) I'd argue that technically Freeza and Cold could have ancestors, just that their ancestors lack their mutations and abilities. It could be argued that Cold and Freeza's(and by extension Cooler's) mutations are the result of Darwinistic evolution, which furthers your point that Cold and Freeza are in fact new species, now that I think about it... But I can't give Toriyama that much credit since several interviews make it apparent that he doesn't put much thought into creating the lore of DragonBall... He's a gag writer by nature after all... As for The Episode Of Bardock, I share your opinion that it's made to provide backstory to DragonBall Heroes, ergo it's non-canon, so why fuss about it? But as a result I enjoy the OVA for the fun special it is... Although for me I enjoy it in part because I was exposed to the Funimation dub of the "Bardock:Father Of Goku" special that painted Bardock as a villain turned hero, rather than a tragic figure of Shakespearian or Greek lore...
I always KNEW there was something about the modern DB animations that kind of annoyed me. Lance put into words what I couldn't. "The Made of Plasticine Look". Sums it up PERFECTLY, thanks man.
+Matt0044 Its not that its cleaner, its that its using character models that people generally don't like. that horrible glossy-grey sheen they put in Goku/Bardock's hair, let alone the greasy look on their skin was never in the original anime.
Tbh, for me the problem with modern anime is that it's way to bright and oversaturated looking when compared to the stuff i've seen from the 90's and 2000's.
@@matt0044 late as hell but what you’re describing is art style, more specifically, art direction. Animation is just how a character moves, which is generally pretty good in modern DB. Essentially it looks so fake due to the way the characters are LIT not how they move. I’ve even seen fans take regular ass shots from modern db and super and just change the way they’re shaded, colored and lit and literally nothing else and the image and art suddenly looks great. Dicks out for supers team for at least catching onto the midway through the series and experimenting with this in the TOP. That little experiment lead into this being taken to its absolute extreme in DBsuper broly and is even carrying over into other things toei’s worked on like the One Piece Wano Arc That overly shiny look does look good, it just depends on the time and place, doing it all the time gives it this uncanny “perfect” look and feel. And while it can fit some anime (though it rarely does) it has honestly NEVER fit dragonballs grit.
Perhaps, when the attack from Frieza missed, it threw Bardock out of Vegeta's orbit and around the systems sun at approximately warp 9.9 and the visions Bardock sees are nothing more than the lucid dream state with clouds that form the heads of his family and loved ones while humpback whales sing in the background, which would explain why Bardock woke up in the past.
They hate this the way we do. So they rift on it through Bardock. Which works well. I especially like that is was a dream of Gohan's. It still doesn't make sense. It was funny though. It is sad when riffting on something makes it superior.
@@spartanq7781 To be fair, shows like Hunter x Hunter managed to make it work and One Piece in particular has done a good job using it to emphasize the general saccharine feeling of the world. But yeah, DBS looks terrible with it and it, for me at least, makes it harder to tell how each character is feeling. The faces are so smooth they're almost completely expressionless. Like the whole cast got ten years worth of plastic surgery or something.
Freeza totally would talk to Bardock tho. He walk talk to him BECAUSE "He's nothing to him". Freeza loves playing with his food, he delights in tormenting the people smaller than him. I agree he shouldn't talk to Bardock, but not because it's out of character for Freeza, because it's not.
Episode of Bardock is so weird for me, because it was already a thing when I got into this series in the first place. Heck, the first time I found about it was from DBZA's special of it, where they spend the entire time joking about how stupid the premise is. Maybe that's why I find it so much easier to dismiss it as dumb fanservice that can't affect the original story, no matter how much it comes back in video games. I guess Episode of Bardock was written by the people who really liked that Bardock had a power level of 10,000 and plowed through Freeza soldiers? That's the only explanation I can think of. When you mentioned black flashbacks and introducing character names, I was thinking more of One Piece than Super Sentai. I don't really abhore Dragonball Minus that much, but your roast of it has to happen. Can't wait!
One Piece dissection? come on lance, it's only 850+ chapters, with a strong main plot, many sub plots, and is still a little over half way done! But one piece is a really good series, read the manga if you ever want to get into it.
Btw, Oda (guy who made one piece) is known for using what we fans call "Oda boxes" where he gives the character's name, and a brief description, so that's mainly what MozillaVulpix was referring to
I feel bad for you. I genuienly feel bad for you that you have to go through two of the most horrible and hurtful sidestories of the entire franchise. Well. I at least hope you had fun giving a full-on rant for once.
Honestly, I think the Abridged version hit the nail on the head with their "So ends the tragic tale of Bardock... or so you'd think, if you didn't know a thing about MERCHANDISING!"
TFS amazes me. They changed Cell completly and made him more appealing villain for the gang. They made Freeza pretty much the same and it works perfectly. Its like Hollywood remake... but competent.
Damn, I don't even know what to comment here. What a very analytic, very well thought out UTTER TAKEDOWN of a work. Where many could have simply done a huge rant video on a very famously hated work (And there's an audience for that). YOu go above and beyond on explaining how a special predicated on nostalgia fails thematically, arrtistically and character wise in honoring the work it means to cash in on. Also, you seem to have edited out your breathing, good for you!
12:20 it’s explained in the games that Mira and Towa used their majin/Kai shenanigans to bring Bardock to the past for their own means but the process was borked 18:39 I always had assumed that they were implying Bardock was another LSSJ variant. He gets purple/b & w and Broly gets green
@@spartanq7781 I didn't say you have to like it. From what the giy said "Subtract it from the canon" it seemed to me he said it isn't canon, so I was only correcting that. Hate it or love it, it's apart of the story.
@@SBoundless It subrtacts in terms of caracterization (Bardock) uniqueness (Goku's departure) and themes (The whole thing about lower class going against an elite spoken by Vegeta) It is canon (sadly) just because Toriyama did it, and it still contradicts the original manga (Bardock's new desing)
If you want proof of how cringe worthy fan ideas for DB can get, please turn left and look at recent developments in the DBS manga or Gohan Blanco becoming canon….
The moment that I saw this video I remembered so this is how you introduced Super Saiyajin's into the dissected series I wouldn't even taken this choose but its your series. I in all honesty take the Anime universe explanations (there ones was a golden Oozaru he couldn't control his power and assent to SSJ4 and so in his uncontrollable power destroyed the planet he was on (most likely the home world of the Saiyajin's)as well as the explanation given in the Broly movies over the origin of the Super Saiyajin over this one right here. And the reverends to the previously mention Lex stole 40 cakes at the end to Dragonball minus was just perfect.
I always personally thought that the reason Bardock was sent back in time is so he could be reasonably powered up for the time breaker stuff, aka learning how to go super saiyan. After all, most of the video games keep to the story of "Bardock was swiped from the timestream last minute" some way or the other (lets put aside the questionable canonicity of the games) and its reasonable to assume they picked Bardock since he was the next best thing to Goku that could be plucked from time a lot smoother then the other saiyans (and by that i mean he could be taken without messing a lot with the timeline) Sure it's kinda convoluted, and it doesn't really explain why his character is so different within the special plus the other narrative pit falls but hey its something i guess The TFS version is still better though
I love the character Bardock, and the original special, but the 2nd, and 3rd felt like weird fanservice. It really upset me that they seemed to change his personality.
I actually always try to ignore episode of Bardock, and the fact that Bardock was someone, I actually quite like the idea that he was just your average Saiyan, that he was just another one of the bunch, and that he was a cold-blooded killer with no regard for the life of anyone, just like Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz. I think that's what makes him interesting in the first place.
I like to think Episode of Bardock is a prequel to Xenoverse than an actual sequel, since in Xenoverse Bardock is a secondary character who can turn super saiyan.
love the idea of it being a dream. It works better than my idea that he got a vision from the past, from someone who happened to be named Bardok, just like his son happened to look just like him.
DBZ Abridged's take on the anime version of this was my first exposure to this story, so I'm kinda biased in its favor because of how hilarious they made it.
I admit to me, I always thought that it wasn't that Freeza race gave the saiyans the legend of the super saiyan, but that Chilled spread their own legend down in the family line about what they should fear while the saiyans spread their own legend from a different source about specifically the super saiyan. When they encountered the saiyans this caused them to put more pressure on them to keep hold of them in hopes that no one could ever control them and fight back because they were hearing about the Saiyans legend too now, but that in the end had the opposite effect.
Excellent dissection as always, Lance. I guess I never really gave this story much thought. It was a big deal at the time, as you said, but it indeed felt like a bad fanfic story. I could have sworn you already made a video about Dragon Ball Minus, but I'm probably remembering you discussing it on a podcast or something. That being said, I can't wait to hear you rip it to shreds again!
Something good came out of DB evolution though. It pissed Toriyama off enough to make Battle of the Gods. DB minus though, it is forever with us and ACTUALLY CANON. The horror.
This special, DB Minus and DB Super should honestly not have been made. They all try to resume a story that's been finished since 1997. And not only are they not better but they aren't even as good as the stories made up till 97.
I think it's an interesting take how ki isn't completely understood(which there WERE theories of, after god ki got introduced is changes and retcons those theories) examples being Vegeta thinking super saiyan was just getting a high power level(how much ki you could build up at one point) and not a transformation, so it isn't completely far fetched that there was a ki type move that has a side effect of sending to the future or the past... Although I do agree Bardock wasn't the original super saiyan it would've just made another time line
You know what, it would have been badass if Frieza had an attack that sent people back in time. Maybe it would even prevent the Dragon Balls from resurrecting them.
Soon we will see Goku meets Bardock and make a Minus reference in the future. I don't want to but it will happen. I just know it. One of the reason I don't like how Heroes make Bardock even SSJ4 Gogeta level and turn him SSJ2, SSJ3 and even SSJ4. What next? SSJGSSJ, UI and give him unique forms that make him strong enough to rival gods. Isn't it funny that Bardock can completely control his SSJ form as if he mastered it completely? Goku could barely handle that form the first time and everyone else had a time skip to justify "mastering" that form. By mastering I mean getting the hang of it and not trying to make it feel like their base form.
Can't wait for the April Fools dissection of a Dragon Ball Z Abridged thing. (This is a joke. I really enjoy your stuff. Also, those scans are nice, good job on them.)
We should all get used to things like this... the dragon ball room has opened up. Going to be some questionable stuff coming out of it and I'm sure some amazing work such as the Yamcha story.
I expect a flood of writers who don't know what they're doing, given the helm to redirect Dragonball. Episode of Bardock is definitely where it all started going down hill.
Your little rant about fans working on things in the franchise here made me wonder, have you ever covered anything fan made? Like maybe a fan film or a fan manga? If not it might be something to consider. I often find some of the things the fan base is capable of to exceed what the studios will put out. I haven't read this myself but have heard of "Dragon Ball Sai" sounds like an interesting "what if" premise I'd love to hear someone with a large background on the franchise cover.
Just jumped back in time a few (7) years to bring a point about the original Bardock special in this video back up. Bardock having a battle power of nearly 10,000 the way I see it is indicative of the theme that the Saiyans are getting far too strong for Freeza to control easily anymore. He’s easily the strongest of his entire crew if he can fight off soldiers that squad-wiped said crew with relatively minimal difficulty by himself. He defeats them fairly easily, just like the soldiers he fights mere seconds before his death, but at the same time, he’s nowhere near strong enough to be in a fight with anyone over that level. Take for example, Dodoria, who defeats Bardock with a single blast and injures him so badly that he looks like that for the rest of his life. In case I’m meandering with this, I’m saying that while Bardock being that strong in his time is high by Saiyan standards, he’s barely a blip on Freeza’s radar as far as his own forces go. Even Vegeta in his first appearance in original Dragon Ball wasn’t as strong as Dodoria, and was even in battle powers with the lowest elite class Freeza soldier we see on Namek in that arc. The main point is that they’re growing strong enough to even be on that level, and that could present a problem for Freeza if it goes on. Imagine if the pure Vegeta dynasty went on, and Vegeta the Fifth had a battle power of 36,000 (twice Vegeta the Fourth’s) when he was fully grown. Or imagine if someone like Bardock, who basically refused to die because of his own stubbornness, just kept growing stronger in the decades he had left of being in his prime. I don’t know if any of this makes sense, and it certainly has nothing to do with the titular terrible special of this video. I’m simply trying to explain how I view that point made about the original Bardock special about a third into the video, because personally, that always confused me as to why his battle power was a pitfall of that story to you.
If I had a choice to watch Dragon ball Evolution or read Dragon bal minus again...... Evolution is looking pretty damn good right about now. That's how much I hate Dragon ball minus.
Dragon Ball Evolution is terrible, but not canon, Dragon Ball Minus is equally terrible in a different way... but it IS canon, if i had a choice i would prefer a world with DBE and no DB Minus than a world with DB Minus and not DBE. Before Minus the scene with Bardock in the Frieza Saga implied the Bardock Special was canon, after Minus we know for sure it is not and it also retcons Goku from being a VERY weak low class warrior that was sent to earth because of that, a man that had to rise his strength and spirit on his own against the expectations of his own race... now he is just like superman even if that backstory doesnt fit the themes of the series... Dragon Ball Evolution is just a bad and cheap adaptation that changes nothing about the original series, its just its own dissapointing thing disconnected from the main canon.
Exactly, DBM took what I love about one of my favorite if not my favorite Dragon ball story's and characters, and flipped it on it's head. It makes no sense, even in its own story. And contradicts just about everything. DBE is bad and I hate it like the rest of the community. But DBE (to me) is funny bad. You can watch it on just how bad it is and laugh at it. (Yet again my opinions) but with minus it takes a story I love and replaced it with something so mediocre and goes against the original story stood for.
Why do Dragonball writers think that Freeza's race is inherently evil? Chilled, Frost...we've seen like two of his race in canon, a father and son. That's racist
Even though I also hate _Episode of Bardock_ I still found a way to rationalize it happening. To put it simply, the entirety of _Episode of Bardock_ is a creation of Bardock's imagination that takes place in the final seconds of his death. As Freeza's death ball is vaporizing Bardock's body, his nerve endings burning all over his body, to cope with failing in every way possible the brain invents an insane reality where Bardock did not really die but instead got transported back in time and fights a suspiciously close copy of Freeza. (and becomes a Super Saiyan!) This works well since, as you put it, _Episode of Bardock_ is so opposite of the original Bardock Special. It's not really Bardock, it's what Bardock imagines himself as. This also adds more sadness to Bardock's story. So it did happen, but it also did not happen.
You made a great point about what triggers bardock's transformation, which was always a problem I had with the cell Saga. Why would cell crushing 16's head trigger super Saiyan 2? Gohan and 16's bond was even thinner than bardock and that alien's bond here. Call me out if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've read the cell Saga, but Gohan didn't even know 16, when 16's head rolled over, I was expecting Gohan to say "wait, what's your name again?" It would be the equivalent of Goku going super Saiyan from seeing dende die by frieza' s hand, there's just no emotional connection between the two.
I feel like both causes for each transformations isn't just the death of 16 or Berry getting hurt... Well, it is half and half on Bardock's transformation with Berry getting hurt and the utter frustration of being so weak to not be able to save his allies, his home, let alone himself with Frieza and, at that point, Chilled. But for the SSJ2 transformation, it is more since if that was the case, he probably would of transform when Cell blew up his body. It was more of the idea of Gohan not getting through to Cell via talking, Cell's persistence to get a challenge to the point of getting his friends, father, and teacher killed via Cell Jrs, and of 16's words to let go of his anger since you can feel that Gohan was still trying to get stronger without resorting to snapping like usual this time. All that, with him witnessing 16 being pointlessly killed, triggered it.
I think it would've been a far better transformation is maybe Gohan knew 16 since the start of the arc, and formed a genuine bond with him. It feels really crammed in, and maybe they could've talked and even formed a friendship somehow. Maybe the theme of violence being necessary could've been the theme of the entire arc, and Gohan would be conflicted on it since the start. idk, but I think if Gohan knew and had a connection with 16 before he went SSJ2, it would've been a far more powerful transformation
This special never really bugged me since it was an what if to promote a video game, minus just bugs the crap out of me since it made the first special like it never happened. arrrgggghhh
Seeing how heated people get whenever talking about Bardock really confuses me. Am I the only one who doesn't have a giant boner for this characters? I mean he's alright but I never loved his original special as much nor am I as bothered by what was later done of him as everyone else seems to be. Episode of Bardock in particular was never anything more than what-if fanservice to provide backstory for his new Dragon Ball Heroes card, so I don't find it even worth getting worked up about.
Eh, the only boner I have is for good storytelling. Poor retcons that go in the opposite direction of good storytelling is a pet peeve of mine because they're doubly damaging.
I understand that, I was just saying I could never bring myself to care about Bardock all that much. I was never a big fan of his special to begin with. I agree it's absolutely more well crafted than anything else involving the character, but it just rubs me the wrong way. I don't like the visions of the future as a plot device, I find a lot of the cameos contrived and forced and to be honest I just never saw the appeal of seeing the tragic tales of Goku's father. I don't really care who Goku's father was. Goku's origins as a Saiyan are more important for his character and for the storyline than his direct family, that's the outlook I've always had, so when I was first exposed to the special I didn't think much of it. And then when these terrible prequels involving him came out, I couldn't get as offended as most DB fans.
Oh and by the way I'm almost done marathoning the whole Dissection after discovering it yesterday. Really amazing job you're doing here. I'm surprised your channel isn't bigger with this kind of content about something as popular as Dragon Ball, but I guess that just speaks about youtube as a whole. Quality isn't often rewarded in this platform.
Here's what should have happened. Episode of Bardock is a flashback story, not a time travel one. It's a prior adventure of Bardock and his gang on a random planet, where they push the locals around and prepare to start killing them off, but a larger antagonist shows up at juuuuuust the right moment, forcing Bardock's team to deal with that. They do, but it wears them out to the point of being comatose - and possibly kills some members of that gang who are retroactively established here. The locals nurse them back to health, and this plus a small amount of other chance happenings (nothing crazy; one of them gets off a really good zinger at Frieza's expense, stuff like that) endear the locals to Bardock/his gang juuuuuuust enough for Bardock to decide to not wipe them out. The gang is not unanimous on this decision (I'd say only one or two really push the disagreement, but wanting the locals dead/alive should be about 50/50), but Bardock's in charge, so they all go with it. The one(s) who wanted those locals dead report what happened to Zarbon/Dodoria/whatever - the news that Saiyan groups are disobeying orders reaches Frieza, and while he doesn't care about that specific planet (though he likely dispatches another team to wipe it out), he's troubled by his growing inability to control them. And throw in some reference to Raditz or something. He doesn't have to show up, but a mention here or there would be very welcome. Ta-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
6:27 - 6:55 Pretty much summed up all the problems I have with Dave Filoni over in the Star Wars universe, he's too obsessed with his own pet projects and selfishly doing what HE wants to do instead of trying to adhere to the LARGER setting he's supposed to be writing within, taking concepts and ideas from the EU while completely undermining the continuity that made them so great. Look what he and Katie Lucas did to Dathomir to see what I mean! They take this fascinating culture from the EU that never appeared in the movies at all and rewrite it purely to serve their own egos. SMH
I prefer the Bardock special to every other Bardock thing. I just don't see him as a good natured saiyan it conflicts with his character so much. Minus was a pandering story and this infuriates me because so many people consider it canon when it's not.
What video source did you use for the animated Episode of Bardock? As far as I know, the only official release of it was a bonus feature on one of the video games.
It was a bonus feature on Dragon Ball Z for Kinect. As far as I know, that was the first and only *OFFICIAL,* *AUTHORIZED,* release in the English-speaking world. The only standalone release I could find was an "all regions" "English subtitles" version which is most likely a pirate copy.
This whole thing reminds me of samurai Jack, I can just imagine frieza saying "I tore open a portal in time!" But unlike samurai Jack, episode of bardock is awful. Agree with everything you've said about it, and have always hated this special ever since I discovered it
Except if put ANY THOUGHT into it at all this is a MORE tragic ending because created the Super Saiyan legend,which is what led to Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta....
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 86 | คู่เอก "คมเพชร vs ชาติพยัคฆ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3q_dRYDuU8/mqdefault.jpg)
All of these versions of Bardock are terrible because they always forget that he was a brilliant scientist.
Prime92 😂😭😂
LMAO
So true
Yeah, they all make him into a brilliant warrior with an average intellect. That's the very antithesis of his character!
+Prime92
I found this funny and nostalgic. xD
I love how TFS made him pretty much not care for anyone else and instead make his rage at the stupid time traveling story the reason for his transformation.
All of us including Bardock rage at how dumb this is.
"Of all the STUPID! ASININE! SHARK JUMPING BULLSH*T!"
Episode of Bardock has always felt like something I should hate, but just don't. To me it's ascended fan fiction, no more damaging to the franchise than all the fan service in Dragon Ball Fusions. Just like Goku meeting Gine it's fan pandering self indulgent shlock that's fine on it's own but I'd never want to see it in the series proper. Overall, I view it as a harmless "What-if" for kicks and giggles... now Dragon Ball Minus, that's a completely different story.
+Hail Zeon Out of curiosity, do you think given the requirement that Bardock had to go Super Saiyan any author, however talented or on top of their game, could have made a decent story out of it? Or was Episode of Bardock ruined from the start?
The mere idea of continuing Bardock's story and making him a Super Saiyan is just a terrible idea that completely goes against what the Bardock Special was about. As stupid as it was, Episode of Bardock is about as good as that concept was gonna turn out.
That's pretty much how I feel. It's just a nothing special that's sort of half enjoyable for what it is. I've never considered it as anything even remotely relevant to 'actual Dragon Ball', so it's as you say, a weird 'ascended fan fiction'. Dragon Ball Minus is from the pen of the author - it's the perfect retort to people who cry, "You only like Super because of Toriyama's involvement". Well, no, when Toriyama shits out garbage like Dragon Ball Minus, he most certainly does not get a pass. Minus is just... Eurgh.
Are you less pissed off about something in Dragonball than Mistare Fusion is? You're just like Toriyama, you love to subvert expectations
Back when Hail Zeon was making videos on SSJ4 vs SSG, Geekdom was just popping off, Mike from Laughing Stock Media made decent content... that was the revival of Dragon Ball for me. I literally never missed one of yalls videos...now I get Geekdom notifications and ignore half of them and check on Zeon once every 6 months to see maybe I can relive that moment in time. Back then when ya'll were all cool with each other growing your channels... that was the shit.
Lex luthor stealing cakes sounds like a better story than episode of bardock and DB minus.
Especially if it's chocolate cake!
@@TylerCharlesFisher Mmm chocolate cake.
@@spartanq7781
CHO-CO-LATE !!!!!!!!!
And that’s terrible
To be fair, that is in character for him.
I can definitely see him stealing those cakes, selling them on the black market, admitting it on a press conference and somehow managing to use it as a platform to get him into the White House!
Now, the Joker, on the other hand, he would do that just for shits and giggles. And to piss off Batman!
And then he would fill the cakes with Joker Gas and donate the cakes to an orphanage, but that's because he has to get rid of the cakes somehow.
MINUS?! Don't do it Fusion! There's so much worth living for!
Minus is an abomination. That is now being animated. In a story that has nothing to do with it. Why couldn't Toriyama forget about it like most things?
@@spartanq7781
I bet he will regardless if they'll keep to milk the franchise to death
@@spartanq7781 And unfortunately, it's been adopted into official DBS canon, sadly...
@@saberiandream316 It was canon the moment Toriyama wrote it. Whether or not it was animated doesn't matter.
@@spartanq7781 It was canon, sure, but it could have been softly ignored. I wish Toei had done that instead.
My standard word on Bardock is "He's one of my favorite characters in Dragon Ball... if I ignore everything featuring him after the Bardock TV Special."
Ah I see you are also a Broly fan
You know, I think I dislike Dragon Ball Minus a little more than Episode of Bardock for the sole reason that it was written by Toriyama. Episode of Bardock was written by a fan author as promotion for some video games, so it's easy for me to say "Eh, it doesn't count" and ignore it. That's a lot harder when a "story" that sucks is written by the original author of the series, in tandem with something that connects back to the current Dragon Ball media (Jaco appearing in Resurrection F and Dragon Ball Super.)
And its even more frustrating to read DB Minus because Toriyama himself admitted he couldn't write a story like Bardock's and proceeds to try and make one.
I honestly speculate that the only reason Minus was done, was just to promote Jaco. Its also the only reason Jaco in in the DB Universe even though he literally does nothing relevant. It was a sad attempt to piggyback off of DB's popularity for the sake of making obscure work for the audience.
Episode of Bardock being explicitly a what-if scenario created to provide backstory for Heroes pretty much keeps me from feeling any anger towards it. It's intended as a fun side thing and nothing more. Only it falls flat of being fun for the most part.
The fact Toriyama himself shots down the concept of a Freeza race dating from before King Cold (as he was the result of a mutation that basically started a new species) already tells this special's events are barely worth mentioning.
@Lloyd Irving not really; Have you read Jaco? Pretty early during serialization there were already pretty strong hints the manga was connected to Dragon Ball. To the point fans would argue endlessly if it was indeed the case or Toriyama just reusing some stuf. Even without Minus Jaco is already strongly connected to Dragon Ball and the gradual reveal it takes place before it is pretty well executed. Minus is its own thing, and doesn't make Jaco any more or less connected do DB than he already was during his own story.
+42Caio (Caio Esteves)
I'd argue that technically Freeza and Cold could have ancestors, just that their ancestors lack their mutations and abilities. It could be argued that Cold and Freeza's(and by extension Cooler's) mutations are the result of Darwinistic evolution, which furthers your point that Cold and Freeza are in fact new species, now that I think about it...
But I can't give Toriyama that much credit since several interviews make it apparent that he doesn't put much thought into creating the lore of DragonBall... He's a gag writer by nature after all...
As for The Episode Of Bardock, I share your opinion that it's made to provide backstory to DragonBall Heroes, ergo it's non-canon, so why fuss about it? But as a result I enjoy the OVA for the fun special it is...
Although for me I enjoy it in part because I was exposed to the Funimation dub of the "Bardock:Father Of Goku" special that painted Bardock as a villain turned hero, rather than a tragic figure of Shakespearian or Greek lore...
I always KNEW there was something about the modern DB animations that kind of annoyed me. Lance put into words what I couldn't. "The Made of Plasticine Look". Sums it up PERFECTLY, thanks man.
I guess that's sort of the difference between animation then and now. Cleaner doesn't necessarily mean "better."
+Matt0044 Its not that its cleaner, its that its using character models that people generally don't like. that horrible glossy-grey sheen they put in Goku/Bardock's hair, let alone the greasy look on their skin was never in the original anime.
@@GeteMachine I NEVER understood why modern shonen anime makers like that look so much. The shiny skin has to end.
Tbh, for me the problem with modern anime is that it's way to bright and oversaturated looking when compared to the stuff i've seen from the 90's and 2000's.
@@matt0044 late as hell but what you’re describing is art style, more specifically, art direction.
Animation is just how a character moves, which is generally pretty good in modern DB.
Essentially it looks so fake due to the way the characters are LIT not how they move. I’ve even seen fans take regular ass shots from modern db and super and just change the way they’re shaded, colored and lit and literally nothing else and the image and art suddenly looks great.
Dicks out for supers team for at least catching onto the midway through the series and experimenting with this in the TOP. That little experiment lead into this being taken to its absolute extreme in DBsuper broly and is even carrying over into other things toei’s worked on like the One Piece Wano Arc
That overly shiny look does look good, it just depends on the time and place, doing it all the time gives it this uncanny “perfect” look and feel. And while it can fit some anime (though it rarely does) it has honestly NEVER fit dragonballs grit.
Perhaps, when the attack from Frieza missed, it threw Bardock out of Vegeta's orbit and around the systems sun at approximately warp 9.9 and the visions Bardock sees are nothing more than the lucid dream state with clouds that form the heads of his family and loved ones while humpback whales sing in the background, which would explain why Bardock woke up in the past.
Well, I can't argue with Star Trek.
Thats a huge stretch.
So I guess the Abridged version IS the definitive version?
"all was the dream" version? Yeap.
FRIEZAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
They hate this the way we do. So they rift on it through Bardock. Which works well. I especially like that is was a dream of Gohan's. It still doesn't make sense. It was funny though. It is sad when riffting on something makes it superior.
@@chrisderkonig1379 Freeza*
@@leonardoalvarenga7572 FRIEZAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
I hate that stupid plastic anime look too. Every time I say that, people get offended. It's so ugly!! Bless you.
I hate that too. I don't understand what causes that problem. Or why the animation staff think it looks good.
@@spartanq7781 To be fair, shows like Hunter x Hunter managed to make it work and One Piece in particular has done a good job using it to emphasize the general saccharine feeling of the world. But yeah, DBS looks terrible with it and it, for me at least, makes it harder to tell how each character is feeling. The faces are so smooth they're almost completely expressionless. Like the whole cast got ten years worth of plastic surgery or something.
Freeza totally would talk to Bardock tho. He walk talk to him BECAUSE "He's nothing to him". Freeza loves playing with his food, he delights in tormenting the people smaller than him.
I agree he shouldn't talk to Bardock, but not because it's out of character for Freeza, because it's not.
True!!
Wait, I thought that the entire episode of Bardock was just a silly story that Goku was telling Goha . . . . oh yeah, that was Dragon Ball Z Abridged.
Even then no it isn't. It's a dream gohan was having
Episode of Bardock is so weird for me, because it was already a thing when I got into this series in the first place. Heck, the first time I found about it was from DBZA's special of it, where they spend the entire time joking about how stupid the premise is. Maybe that's why I find it so much easier to dismiss it as dumb fanservice that can't affect the original story, no matter how much it comes back in video games.
I guess Episode of Bardock was written by the people who really liked that Bardock had a power level of 10,000 and plowed through Freeza soldiers? That's the only explanation I can think of.
When you mentioned black flashbacks and introducing character names, I was thinking more of One Piece than Super Sentai.
I don't really abhore Dragonball Minus that much, but your roast of it has to happen. Can't wait!
MozillaVulpix i didn't know you're were that new of a dragonball fan
Ah, well, I know next to nothing about One Piece, so I definitely wouldn't have picked up on that.
One Piece dissection? come on lance, it's only 850+ chapters, with a strong main plot, many sub plots, and is still a little over half way done! But one piece is a really good series, read the manga if you ever want to get into it.
Btw, Oda (guy who made one piece) is known for using what we fans call "Oda boxes" where he gives the character's name, and a brief description, so that's mainly what MozillaVulpix was referring to
+hrhnicholasable WHO MENTIONED ONE PIECE!!! I GOTTA HAVE MY ONE PIECE! !!
I feel bad for you. I genuienly feel bad for you that you have to go through two of the most horrible and hurtful sidestories of the entire franchise. Well. I at least hope you had fun giving a full-on rant for once.
You know, it was kind of fun!
Honestly, I think the Abridged version hit the nail on the head with their "So ends the tragic tale of Bardock... or so you'd think, if you didn't know a thing about MERCHANDISING!"
The abridged version was better lol
TheseBahamianCartoons lol chilled is hilarious.
TheseBahamianCartoons I'd go eat the entire Plantian race if I hadn't already filled up on rocks.
atleast TFS kept him in character lol
TFS amazes me. They changed Cell completly and made him more appealing villain for the gang. They made Freeza pretty much the same and it works perfectly. Its like Hollywood remake... but competent.
+Franciszek Rychlewicz That is what makes them the best abridged series makers on the net for me
Damn, I don't even know what to comment here. What a very analytic, very well thought out UTTER TAKEDOWN of a work. Where many could have simply done a huge rant video on a very famously hated work (And there's an audience for that). YOu go above and beyond on explaining how a special predicated on nostalgia fails thematically, arrtistically and character wise in honoring the work it means to cash in on.
Also, you seem to have edited out your breathing, good for you!
12:20 it’s explained in the games that Mira and Towa used their majin/Kai shenanigans to bring Bardock to the past for their own means but the process was borked
18:39 I always had assumed that they were implying Bardock was another LSSJ variant. He gets purple/b & w and Broly gets green
I was hoping Minus would be the next video. To me Dragon Ball Minus means subtract it from the cannon.
THE AnimeHERO It's canon dude
@@SBoundless That doesn't mean we have to like it. God I hate when someone brings up cannon.
@@spartanq7781 I didn't say you have to like it. From what the giy said "Subtract it from the canon" it seemed to me he said it isn't canon, so I was only correcting that. Hate it or love it, it's apart of the story.
@@SBoundless
It subrtacts in terms of caracterization (Bardock) uniqueness (Goku's departure) and themes (The whole thing about lower class going against an elite spoken by Vegeta)
It is canon (sadly) just because Toriyama did it, and it still contradicts the original manga (Bardock's new desing)
"To me Dragon Ball Minus means subtract it from the cannon." If only that were still the case.
18:15
"Toriyama hated using screen tone because you guessed it, it was too much work."
Berry? you mean little tupac
If you want proof of how cringe worthy fan ideas for DB can get, please turn left and look at recent developments in the DBS manga or Gohan Blanco becoming canon….
5:31 ok great job making the 40 cakes thing go full circle. I audibly exclaimed "ok thay was good" when i heard that
Never clicked on a video so fast lol. Amazing video, as always
For real
The moment that I saw this video I remembered so this is how you introduced Super Saiyajin's into the dissected series I wouldn't even taken this choose but its your series.
I in all honesty take the Anime universe explanations (there ones was a golden Oozaru he couldn't control his power and assent to SSJ4 and so in his uncontrollable power destroyed the planet he was on (most likely the home world of the Saiyajin's)as well as the explanation given in the Broly movies over the origin of the Super Saiyajin over this one right here.
And the reverends to the previously mention Lex stole 40 cakes at the end to Dragonball minus was just perfect.
This was incredibly cathartic, but also, my sympathies for you having to read this and for the power level discussion in the last episode.
I always personally thought that the reason Bardock was sent back in time is so he could be reasonably powered up for the time breaker stuff, aka learning how to go super saiyan. After all, most of the video games keep to the story of "Bardock was swiped from the timestream last minute" some way or the other (lets put aside the questionable canonicity of the games) and its reasonable to assume they picked Bardock since he was the next best thing to Goku that could be plucked from time a lot smoother then the other saiyans (and by that i mean he could be taken without messing a lot with the timeline) Sure it's kinda convoluted, and it doesn't really explain why his character is so different within the special plus the other narrative pit falls but hey its something i guess
The TFS version is still better though
I love the character Bardock, and the original special, but the 2nd, and 3rd felt like weird fanservice. It really upset me that they seemed to change his personality.
How are you reacting to recent Super manga developments? lol
I actually always try to ignore episode of Bardock, and the fact that Bardock was someone, I actually quite like the idea that he was just your average Saiyan, that he was just another one of the bunch, and that he was a cold-blooded killer with no regard for the life of anyone, just like Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz. I think that's what makes him interesting in the first place.
I like to think Episode of Bardock is a prequel to Xenoverse than an actual sequel, since in Xenoverse Bardock is a secondary character who can turn super saiyan.
Well.... your rant was amazing... when I get further into Naruto Dissection, I'm going to have a few rants myself.
True. Bardock going ssj because of his Pokémon friend getting hurt is stupid. He should have use the tingles to save a lot of time.
What an amazing thing to wake up to! I'm sure it will be great as always. Amazing work you do Mistarefusion
love the idea of it being a dream. It works better than my idea that he got a vision from the past, from someone who happened to be named Bardok, just like his son happened to look just like him.
DBZ Abridged's take on the anime version of this was my first exposure to this story, so I'm kinda biased in its favor because of how hilarious they made it.
Wow
danny comin' in clutch with those scans. great vid man! as always
Do you even need to do Dragon Ball Minus? You've already summed up everything that's wrong with it.
Well, there's other things to unpack about it. Why it was even made? Fandom's view on what's Canon and Ca-NOT also is something to be talked about.
Well, that is certainly one thing wrong with Dragon Ball Minus, but I have quite a bit more to say about it than that.
I wished to know your opinions on Jaco in general =D
Worth the wait, can't wait for the Minus dissection!
I absolutely love your channel. All these videos are great
I admit to me, I always thought that it wasn't that Freeza race gave the saiyans the legend of the super saiyan, but that Chilled spread their own legend down in the family line about what they should fear while the saiyans spread their own legend from a different source about specifically the super saiyan. When they encountered the saiyans this caused them to put more pressure on them to keep hold of them in hopes that no one could ever control them and fight back because they were hearing about the Saiyans legend too now, but that in the end had the opposite effect.
Excellent dissection as always, Lance. I guess I never really gave this story much thought. It was a big deal at the time, as you said, but it indeed felt like a bad fanfic story. I could have sworn you already made a video about Dragon Ball Minus, but I'm probably remembering you discussing it on a podcast or something. That being said, I can't wait to hear you rip it to shreds again!
Whether you like Bardock or not, we can all agree that DB Minus is the WORST thing that ever happen to Dragon Ball.
Arian Bustamante Did you forget Evolution ?
I wish I could forget that movie, but Minus came from Toriyama it's supposed to be the "Manga Cannon" and he turned into a Superman origin story...
Arian Bustamante I always thought that it was a what if story tbh
Arian Bustamante agreed but nothing is worse than the abomination that is DB evolution
Something good came out of DB evolution though. It pissed Toriyama off enough to make Battle of the Gods. DB minus though, it is forever with us and ACTUALLY CANON. The horror.
Omg. I would've called her insane saying "Bardock survives". There is NO WAY he survived that. He DISINTEGRATED!!!!!
This special, DB Minus and DB Super should honestly not have been made. They all try to resume a story that's been finished since 1997. And not only are they not better but they aren't even as good as the stories made up till 97.
Dude... this pages you cleaned up look dammmmn good! I didn't know that was a thing but for sure that was worth it, they look sharp!
I think it's an interesting take how ki isn't completely understood(which there WERE theories of, after god ki got introduced is changes and retcons those theories) examples being Vegeta thinking super saiyan was just getting a high power level(how much ki you could build up at one point) and not a transformation, so it isn't completely far fetched that there was a ki type move that has a side effect of sending to the future or the past... Although I do agree Bardock wasn't the original super saiyan it would've just made another time line
Well, at least we got a good Dragon Ball Z abridged video out of it
That moment when your favorite TH-camr uploads a video but you're in Geriatrics class 😢
You know what, it would have been badass if Frieza had an attack that sent people back in time. Maybe it would even prevent the Dragon Balls from resurrecting them.
Soon we will see Goku meets Bardock and make a Minus reference in the future. I don't want to but it will happen. I just know it.
One of the reason I don't like how Heroes make Bardock even SSJ4 Gogeta level and turn him SSJ2, SSJ3 and even SSJ4. What next? SSJGSSJ, UI and give him unique forms that make him strong enough to rival gods.
Isn't it funny that Bardock can completely control his SSJ form as if he mastered it completely? Goku could barely handle that form the first time and everyone else had a time skip to justify "mastering" that form. By mastering I mean getting the hang of it and not trying to make it feel like their base form.
Can't wait for the April Fools dissection of a Dragon Ball Z Abridged thing. (This is a joke. I really enjoy your stuff. Also, those scans are nice, good job on them.)
Bardock was taken to another dimension.
We should all get used to things like this... the dragon ball room has opened up. Going to be some questionable stuff coming out of it and I'm sure some amazing work such as the Yamcha story.
I expect a flood of writers who don't know what they're doing, given the helm to redirect Dragonball. Episode of Bardock is definitely where it all started going down hill.
I wish there was somebody like you but for JoJo or Naruto, so good
Hamon Beat is a pretty neat channel for Jojo content.
Your little rant about fans working on things in the franchise here made me wonder, have you ever covered anything fan made? Like maybe a fan film or a fan manga? If not it might be something to consider. I often find some of the things the fan base is capable of to exceed what the studios will put out. I haven't read this myself but have heard of "Dragon Ball Sai" sounds like an interesting "what if" premise I'd love to hear someone with a large background on the franchise cover.
I mean, I've gotten used to it, but I always thought the plastic look of modern animation was just weird, the original looked far more organic.
hrhnicholasable It's the shading mostly. Early digital ink and paint animation wasn't as bad (unless it was cheap).
The 2018 movie thankfully and finally strays away from that glossy Yamamuro look.
"Of all the Stupid asinine shark jumping bullshit" -Bardock
Well time to go to boring school
*Sees this in my notifications*
Finally a good way to start my morning
This must be the "Next Dimension" Ocean Dub Vegeta spoke of. XD
Fucking aye the quality of your videos on dragonball are leagues higher than anything else on youtube
That's very kind. Thank you!
MistareFusion no problem man you a really incredible at what you do
Oh, Dragon Ball Minus is next. The bonus chapter that Dragon Ball horror stories are made of.
AAAAYYYY!!! I've been waiting for another one
Dragon Ball Minus?
Are we getting there? Oh boy, we are! Yes!!! I'd never expected for you to get there.
Chilled looks like a powered up Kuriza.
Next version of Bardock we'll get him as Super Red Ultra Instinct Yamoshi.
This is one of the few Dragon Ball animations that I've never seen. I've seen the Abridged version, but not the original.
As always, love your content to death. Have a good one!
Just jumped back in time a few (7) years to bring a point about the original Bardock special in this video back up.
Bardock having a battle power of nearly 10,000 the way I see it is indicative of the theme that the Saiyans are getting far too strong for Freeza to control easily anymore. He’s easily the strongest of his entire crew if he can fight off soldiers that squad-wiped said crew with relatively minimal difficulty by himself. He defeats them fairly easily, just like the soldiers he fights mere seconds before his death, but at the same time, he’s nowhere near strong enough to be in a fight with anyone over that level. Take for example, Dodoria, who defeats Bardock with a single blast and injures him so badly that he looks like that for the rest of his life. In case I’m meandering with this, I’m saying that while Bardock being that strong in his time is high by Saiyan standards, he’s barely a blip on Freeza’s radar as far as his own forces go. Even Vegeta in his first appearance in original Dragon Ball wasn’t as strong as Dodoria, and was even in battle powers with the lowest elite class Freeza soldier we see on Namek in that arc. The main point is that they’re growing strong enough to even be on that level, and that could present a problem for Freeza if it goes on. Imagine if the pure Vegeta dynasty went on, and Vegeta the Fifth had a battle power of 36,000 (twice Vegeta the Fourth’s) when he was fully grown. Or imagine if someone like Bardock, who basically refused to die because of his own stubbornness, just kept growing stronger in the decades he had left of being in his prime.
I don’t know if any of this makes sense, and it certainly has nothing to do with the titular terrible special of this video. I’m simply trying to explain how I view that point made about the original Bardock special about a third into the video, because personally, that always confused me as to why his battle power was a pitfall of that story to you.
Oh I feel bad for you, bloody Dragon Ball Minus. Keep up the good work!
if you can, I want a download link for a scan of the dragon ball episode of bardock that is still raw for the excitement of all fans in the world
I've never been this early for a Mistarefusion video : )
Oh boy, official fan fiction time
Your explanation of ascended fandom is one of the reason I cannot stand Dragon Ball Super. Ascended Fanboy Toyotaro is just not hitting it home.
If I had a choice to watch Dragon ball Evolution or read Dragon bal minus again...... Evolution is looking pretty damn good right about now. That's how much I hate Dragon ball minus.
Matthew Baldaccini relax nothing is worse than evolution
Dragon Ball Evolution is terrible, but not canon, Dragon Ball Minus is equally terrible in a different way... but it IS canon, if i had a choice i would prefer a world with DBE and no DB Minus than a world with DB Minus and not DBE.
Before Minus the scene with Bardock in the Frieza Saga implied the Bardock Special was canon, after Minus we know for sure it is not and it also retcons Goku from being a VERY weak low class warrior that was sent to earth because of that, a man that had to rise his strength and spirit on his own against the expectations of his own race... now he is just like superman even if that backstory doesnt fit the themes of the series...
Dragon Ball Evolution is just a bad and cheap adaptation that changes nothing about the original series, its just its own dissapointing thing disconnected from the main canon.
Exactly, DBM took what I love about one of my favorite if not my favorite Dragon ball story's and characters, and flipped it on it's head. It makes no sense, even in its own story. And contradicts just about everything. DBE is bad and I hate it like the rest of the community. But DBE (to me) is funny bad. You can watch it on just how bad it is and laugh at it. (Yet again my opinions) but with minus it takes a story I love and replaced it with something so mediocre and goes against the original story stood for.
Matthew Baldaccini DBM doesn't contradict anything
Matthew Baldaccini DB evolution at least is a good comedy movie
Why do Dragonball writers think that Freeza's race is inherently evil? Chilled, Frost...we've seen like two of his race in canon, a father and son. That's racist
You know, even if bardock fought frieza in his super saiyan form, he would still get bitch slapped by first form frieza
Even though I also hate _Episode of Bardock_ I still found a way to rationalize it happening. To put it simply, the entirety of _Episode of Bardock_ is a creation of Bardock's imagination that takes place in the final seconds of his death. As Freeza's death ball is vaporizing Bardock's body, his nerve endings burning all over his body, to cope with failing in every way possible the brain invents an insane reality where Bardock did not really die but instead got transported back in time and fights a suspiciously close copy of Freeza. (and becomes a Super Saiyan!)
This works well since, as you put it, _Episode of Bardock_ is so opposite of the original Bardock Special. It's not really Bardock, it's what Bardock imagines himself as. This also adds more sadness to Bardock's story.
So it did happen, but it also did not happen.
New upload early in the morning.. Nice
You made a great point about what triggers bardock's transformation, which was always a problem I had with the cell Saga. Why would cell crushing 16's head trigger super Saiyan 2? Gohan and 16's bond was even thinner than bardock and that alien's bond here. Call me out if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I've read the cell Saga, but Gohan didn't even know 16, when 16's head rolled over, I was expecting Gohan to say "wait, what's your name again?" It would be the equivalent of Goku going super Saiyan from seeing dende die by frieza' s hand, there's just no emotional connection between the two.
I feel like both causes for each transformations isn't just the death of 16 or Berry getting hurt... Well, it is half and half on Bardock's transformation with Berry getting hurt and the utter frustration of being so weak to not be able to save his allies, his home, let alone himself with Frieza and, at that point, Chilled. But for the SSJ2 transformation, it is more since if that was the case, he probably would of transform when Cell blew up his body. It was more of the idea of Gohan not getting through to Cell via talking, Cell's persistence to get a challenge to the point of getting his friends, father, and teacher killed via Cell Jrs, and of 16's words to let go of his anger since you can feel that Gohan was still trying to get stronger without resorting to snapping like usual this time. All that, with him witnessing 16 being pointlessly killed, triggered it.
I think it would've been a far better transformation is maybe Gohan knew 16 since the start of the arc, and formed a genuine bond with him. It feels really crammed in, and maybe they could've talked and even formed a friendship somehow. Maybe the theme of violence being necessary could've been the theme of the entire arc, and Gohan would be conflicted on it since the start. idk, but I think if Gohan knew and had a connection with 16 before he went SSJ2, it would've been a far more powerful transformation
I like episode of bardock but I completely agree with you in every way
I enjoy it only if I think of it as some fan fiction I don't take it as the true legend of the super Saiyan
This special summed up:
DBZA Piccolo: You peaked.
But Bardock gets stronger right?
DBZA Piccolo: Yeah but...not really.
Lmao I love that! "1.21 gigawatt ball"
I can't wait for DB Minus. I want to feel the hatred and loathing in your voice.
This special never really bugged me since it was an what if to promote a video game, minus just bugs the crap out of me since it made the first special like it never happened. arrrgggghhh
12:05
Well, who do you _think_ caused the Namekian drought?
20:30 Am I the only one who noticed that Seripa was drawn with long hair instead of her original short cut? I'm sure I'm not, but ask anyway
the weird thing is yesterday i decided to rewatch dbd
Seeing how heated people get whenever talking about Bardock really confuses me. Am I the only one who doesn't have a giant boner for this characters?
I mean he's alright but I never loved his original special as much nor am I as bothered by what was later done of him as everyone else seems to be.
Episode of Bardock in particular was never anything more than what-if fanservice to provide backstory for his new Dragon Ball Heroes card, so I don't find it even worth getting worked up about.
Eh, the only boner I have is for good storytelling. Poor retcons that go in the opposite direction of good storytelling is a pet peeve of mine because they're doubly damaging.
I understand that, I was just saying I could never bring myself to care about Bardock all that much. I was never a big fan of his special to begin with. I agree it's absolutely more well crafted than anything else involving the character, but it just rubs me the wrong way. I don't like the visions of the future as a plot device, I find a lot of the cameos contrived and forced and to be honest I just never saw the appeal of seeing the tragic tales of Goku's father. I don't really care who Goku's father was. Goku's origins as a Saiyan are more important for his character and for the storyline than his direct family, that's the outlook I've always had, so when I was first exposed to the special I didn't think much of it. And then when these terrible prequels involving him came out, I couldn't get as offended as most DB fans.
Oh and by the way I'm almost done marathoning the whole Dissection after discovering it yesterday. Really amazing job you're doing here.
I'm surprised your channel isn't bigger with this kind of content about something as popular as Dragon Ball, but I guess that just speaks about youtube as a whole. Quality isn't often rewarded in this platform.
Here's what should have happened.
Episode of Bardock is a flashback story, not a time travel one. It's a prior adventure of Bardock and his gang on a random planet, where they push the locals around and prepare to start killing them off, but a larger antagonist shows up at juuuuuust the right moment, forcing Bardock's team to deal with that.
They do, but it wears them out to the point of being comatose - and possibly kills some members of that gang who are retroactively established here. The locals nurse them back to health, and this plus a small amount of other chance happenings (nothing crazy; one of them gets off a really good zinger at Frieza's expense, stuff like that) endear the locals to Bardock/his gang juuuuuuust enough for Bardock to decide to not wipe them out. The gang is not unanimous on this decision (I'd say only one or two really push the disagreement, but wanting the locals dead/alive should be about 50/50), but Bardock's in charge, so they all go with it.
The one(s) who wanted those locals dead report what happened to Zarbon/Dodoria/whatever - the news that Saiyan groups are disobeying orders reaches Frieza, and while he doesn't care about that specific planet (though he likely dispatches another team to wipe it out), he's troubled by his growing inability to control them.
And throw in some reference to Raditz or something. He doesn't have to show up, but a mention here or there would be very welcome.
Ta-daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
6:27 - 6:55 Pretty much summed up all the problems I have with Dave Filoni over in the Star Wars universe, he's too obsessed with his own pet projects and selfishly doing what HE wants to do instead of trying to adhere to the LARGER setting he's supposed to be writing within, taking concepts and ideas from the EU while completely undermining the continuity that made them so great. Look what he and Katie Lucas did to Dathomir to see what I mean! They take this fascinating culture from the EU that never appeared in the movies at all and rewrite it purely to serve their own egos. SMH
I prefer the Bardock special to every other Bardock thing. I just don't see him as a good natured saiyan it conflicts with his character so much. Minus was a pandering story and this infuriates me because so many people consider it canon when it's not.
That Dude With The Beard Dragonball Minus is actually canon. Made by Akira Toriyama put into the story by him
What video source did you use for the animated Episode of Bardock? As far as I know, the only official release of it was a bonus feature on one of the video games.
It was a bonus feature on Dragon Ball Z for Kinect. As far as I know, that was the first and only *OFFICIAL,* *AUTHORIZED,* release in the English-speaking world. The only standalone release I could find was an "all regions" "English subtitles" version which is most likely a pirate copy.
(18:01) That reminds me, do you still watch Super Sentai?
Great video, wish you had more subs.
This whole thing reminds me of samurai Jack, I can just imagine frieza saying "I tore open a portal in time!" But unlike samurai Jack, episode of bardock is awful. Agree with everything you've said about it, and have always hated this special ever since I discovered it
4:29 they say ol dude stole stole 40 cakes... but then very clearly they illustrated him stealing 39 cakes... truck question or dumb error?
Except if put ANY THOUGHT into it at all this is a MORE tragic ending because created the Super Saiyan legend,which is what led to Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta....
Honestly, the best thing to come out of episode of burdock was episode of bardock abriged