I'm trying to learn this material before I fly a holding pattern. What I've gather so far from watching your video: Always determine the procedure with outbound heading Right Hand pattern with right thumb, if the number is below your thumb, you're DIRECT (the other are teardrop and parallel) If you're holding at a VOR, wait until the flag flip FROM to TO Standard Rate Turn to the Right, at 180 degrees, VOR will flip again from TO to FROM (wings Level) Start Outbound leg - and Timer 1 Mins Figure out wind correction Angle (if 5 degrees to the right on inbound, then triple it in outbound leg) GOOD STUFF!
After 30 years of messing with inbound timing, I began starting my time halfway through the standard rate turn to the inbound course. Since that was the same point on every pattern, my times became consistent and only varied with changes in wind.
I'm about to take my instrument checkride in a 172 that has only 2 VOR radios and an ADF. Our club's 182 has brand new G5s and a 650, but I've avoided any training with it. I'm doing it old school. I'll have to learn GPS IFR flying later in it
I'm kind of an old school guy anyway. I got my Private ticket 14 years ago at 36 years old. I have flown all over the country VFR, but I get tired of occasionally having to spend all day in a pilot's lounge simply because there is a low ceiling.
I have learned to always make sure your DG is set to the magnetic compass properly when determining the wind correction angle. Any difference will become triple when figuring out the outbound leg. I've learned the hard way.
Any rule of thumb for adjusting the timing of the outbound leg to get your 1-minute inbound leg? Say a 1:00 outbound gave you a 1:10 inbound leg. How long are you flying on your next outbound leg?
Hey Jason. I used this video when I was working on my instrument rating, and now I am using it as I am working on my CFI-I. My question is regarding holding on an intersection or waypoint in a G1000. You mentioned it is proper to start the outbound timer when you roll wings level out of a standard rate turn. However, if I were to use a RMI to identify abeam the holding fix, would it be appropriate to use that RMI as an indicator to start my outbound leg timer when I am abeam the fix? Thanks.
at 120kt the rule of thumb was add 1 degree/knot of crosswind to the heading that gives outbound track, plus change outbound time by 1s/knot of head/tailwind. works beautifully. it's awesome to see the needle centre as you level off onto the inbound. cant wait to practice this stuff again. tubeliner flying is just about pressing buttons now :/
Hey Jason, I haven’t heard start the timer on the intercept before just wings level and I can’t find any info on when to start the timer exactly in the FAA handbooks and the AIM. Can you help me understand where you got that info from?
Talking about wind correct in the hold you mentioned tripling your outbound correct (as compared to your inbound course correction). In your example you have a 5 degree correction to the south on your inbound leg and then a 15 degree correction to the south on your outbound leg. Shouldn't the correction be 15 degrees to the NORTH on your outbound leg in this example?
Well, it’ll send you out. You’re going the opposite direction of the inbound leg. So to have a parallel ground track of the inbound while on the outbound, the WCA would need to be the same. We wanna work our way out so that our turn can be standard rate to get back on the inbound. If we don’t make space, we’ll overshoot the inbound. Consider how we work in WCA in a turn by thinking about our bank angle in ground reference maneuvers like s-turns and turns around a point; to work in a “WCA” during these maneuvers, we steepen our bank angle. In instrument flying, we want standard rate, which is a given bank angle at a given airspeed. Therefore, to maintain standard rate (which is a given bank angle at a given speed) and still hit our inbound leg, we have to start farther away from it.
It'll send you out some, but it's supposed to do so. Your holding pattern takes you about 4 minutes. 1 minute on the inbound leg (with normal WCA), 1 minute in the turn after the fix (standard rate, no WCA), 1 minute outbound (3x WCA), one minute in the turn back inbound (again, at standard rate without WCA). Logically, if you have 4 one-minute sections in your holding pattern, you can either: * have the normal WCA on all sections (not sure how you'd do it in a turn...) * have double the WCA on the straight sections to compensate for not having it in the turns (would not be a legal pattern since you wouldn't track the inbound radial) * have the normal WCA on the inbound leg and triple the WCA on the outbound leg because you have to compensate for two extra minutes of drift from the two turns.
If you have a GPS or DME could you ask the controller for a fixed distance leg like some holding patterns have (ie, 2, 3 or 4 nautical miles)? That would take all the timing out of the equation.
The GPS draws the hold for you. Don’t need to worry about distance or time if you have that. Of course, you need to know how to do it with a GPS failure too.
I have never flown a holding pattern. (It won’t be much longer) But why isn’t the WCA flown in bound the same as the WCA you would choose outbound? Is it lost in the turn? Perhaps one of your followers knows as well.
When flying inbound, you are on a defined track (following a radial). Then you make a std rate turn to your outbound leg. If there is a crosswind, you will drift during the turn. Then you fly the outbound leg. If you only use the WCA determined while flying the I/B leg here, you will track parallel to the I/B leg during the O/B leg. But you need to make up for the drift during the turn from I/B to O/B. You also need to factor in the drift you will have while turning from O/B leg back to I/B. Basically, flying WCA times 3 when O/B factors in the drift during the turns, so you can make comfortable std rate turns. The O/B leg is on the "protected side" of the hold, so you are allowed to widen as required. You should not drift to the "non-protected side" while flying I/B. There could be high terrain there, or an airspace restriction.
keep up the good work, my friend. as of 10-4-21 there are 9 anonymous thumbs down from 9 clowns. no commentary as to their criticism. 9 certified clowns of aviation
I just passed my instrument checkride and wanted to let you know how helpful your videos have been. Thank you so much!
Sam S awesome to head that! Thx! 🙌 and congrats!! I know how hard that is
This will be me soon! Hopefully by the end of August or this September...😅🙏
@@abbieamavi Good luck!!!
@@abbieamavi Did you pass?
@@sairamsidgiddi9725 I failed during the oral actually 😂
is there a precise way to calculate time needed to add or subtract when flying inbound/outbound if there were to be wind?
This helps. I’m about 1-2 flights away from my Instrument checkride and holds were definitely the hardest part of training!
I'm trying to learn this material before I fly a holding pattern. What I've gather so far from watching your video:
Always determine the procedure with outbound heading
Right Hand pattern with right thumb, if the number is below your thumb, you're DIRECT (the other are teardrop and parallel)
If you're holding at a VOR, wait until the flag flip FROM to TO
Standard Rate Turn to the Right, at 180 degrees, VOR will flip again from TO to FROM (wings Level)
Start Outbound leg - and Timer 1 Mins
Figure out wind correction Angle (if 5 degrees to the right on inbound, then triple it in outbound leg)
GOOD STUFF!
After 30 years of messing with inbound timing, I began starting my time halfway through the standard rate turn to the inbound course. Since that was the same point on every pattern, my times became consistent and only varied with changes in wind.
I'm about to take my instrument checkride in a 172 that has only 2 VOR radios and an ADF. Our club's 182 has brand new G5s and a 650, but I've avoided any training with it. I'm doing it old school. I'll have to learn GPS IFR flying later in it
Matt Basford You’ll thank yourself for this later. I promise.
You're learning the right way. Leave GPS for later. Get the basics right first.
I'm kind of an old school guy anyway. I got my Private ticket 14 years ago at 36 years old. I have flown all over the country VFR, but I get tired of occasionally having to spend all day in a pilot's lounge simply because there is a low ceiling.
Excellent video on holds. Nice memory refresher
I have learned to always make sure your DG is set to the magnetic compass properly when determining the wind correction angle. Any difference will become triple when figuring out the outbound leg. I've learned the hard way.
Great presentation and easy flowin styyyyyle. Master level work my friend.
rocktakesover 🙏🏻🙌
Any rule of thumb for adjusting the timing of the outbound leg to get your 1-minute inbound leg? Say a 1:00 outbound gave you a 1:10 inbound leg. How long are you flying on your next outbound leg?
Just subtract 10 seconds from the time you fly the outbound leg.
Hey Jason. I used this video when I was working on my instrument rating, and now I am using it as I am working on my CFI-I.
My question is regarding holding on an intersection or waypoint in a G1000. You mentioned it is proper to start the outbound timer when you roll wings level out of a standard rate turn. However, if I were to use a RMI to identify abeam the holding fix, would it be appropriate to use that RMI as an indicator to start my outbound leg timer when I am abeam the fix? Thanks.
Great timing! (Pun intended) my instructor and I just worked holding patterns today. My first time. It was nice to see this as I review the flight.
at 120kt the rule of thumb was add 1 degree/knot of crosswind to the heading that gives outbound track, plus change outbound time by 1s/knot of head/tailwind. works beautifully. it's awesome to see the needle centre as you level off onto the inbound. cant wait to practice this stuff again. tubeliner flying is just about pressing buttons now :/
Everyone has a formula. Some work for some, some work for others..
I’m jumping back into my instrument training after a long break due to COVID and this was a great refresher for fine tuning holds. Thanks!
i guess it's pretty randomly asking but do anybody know a good website to stream newly released movies online ?
@Julian Braden Flixportal xD
@Ridge Reed thank you, signed up and it seems like a nice service :) I really appreciate it !
@Julian Braden no problem =)
Hey Jason, I haven’t heard start the timer on the intercept before just wings level and I can’t find any info on when to start the timer exactly in the FAA handbooks and the AIM. Can you help me understand where you got that info from?
Talking about wind correct in the hold you mentioned tripling your outbound correct (as compared to your inbound course correction). In your example you have a 5 degree correction to the south on your inbound leg and then a 15 degree correction to the south on your outbound leg. Shouldn't the correction be 15 degrees to the NORTH on your outbound leg in this example?
Hmm, so when tripling the WCA, does that result in a parallel track to the inbound or does it send you out like in the picture?
Well, it’ll send you out. You’re going the opposite direction of the inbound leg. So to have a parallel ground track of the inbound while on the outbound, the WCA would need to be the same. We wanna work our way out so that our turn can be standard rate to get back on the inbound. If we don’t make space, we’ll overshoot the inbound. Consider how we work in WCA in a turn by thinking about our bank angle in ground reference maneuvers like s-turns and turns around a point; to work in a “WCA” during these maneuvers, we steepen our bank angle. In instrument flying, we want standard rate, which is a given bank angle at a given airspeed. Therefore, to maintain standard rate (which is a given bank angle at a given speed) and still hit our inbound leg, we have to start farther away from it.
It'll send you out some, but it's supposed to do so. Your holding pattern takes you about 4 minutes. 1 minute on the inbound leg (with normal WCA), 1 minute in the turn after the fix (standard rate, no WCA), 1 minute outbound (3x WCA), one minute in the turn back inbound (again, at standard rate without WCA).
Logically, if you have 4 one-minute sections in your holding pattern, you can either:
* have the normal WCA on all sections (not sure how you'd do it in a turn...)
* have double the WCA on the straight sections to compensate for not having it in the turns (would not be a legal pattern since you wouldn't track the inbound radial)
* have the normal WCA on the inbound leg and triple the WCA on the outbound leg because you have to compensate for two extra minutes of drift from the two turns.
Is that Spink Lake in the intro?
If you have a GPS or DME could you ask the controller for a fixed distance leg like some holding patterns have (ie, 2, 3 or 4 nautical miles)? That would take all the timing out of the equation.
The GPS draws the hold for you. Don’t need to worry about distance or time if you have that. Of course, you need to know how to do it with a GPS failure too.
I remember teaching NDB holds in windy conditions years ago. What a nightmare. 😱
Where we can practice holds in computer or any internet website to practice holds with wind corrections before actual flying ?
Ah yes. The OFJOB fix (Old Friend Jim's Old Barn).
Awesome, thanks
Great professional video. Kudos for being responsible and wearing a mask. You are a great role model for aviation.
Hahaha
Nice music!
Where ya walk-in to? Haha. Great tips!
I have never flown a holding pattern. (It won’t be much longer)
But why isn’t the WCA flown in bound the same as the WCA you would choose outbound? Is it lost in the turn? Perhaps one of your followers knows as well.
When flying inbound, you are on a defined track (following a radial). Then you make a std rate turn to your outbound leg. If there is a crosswind, you will drift during the turn. Then you fly the outbound leg. If you only use the WCA determined while flying the I/B leg here, you will track parallel to the I/B leg during the O/B leg. But you need to make up for the drift during the turn from I/B to O/B. You also need to factor in the drift you will have while turning from O/B leg back to I/B. Basically, flying WCA times 3 when O/B factors in the drift during the turns, so you can make comfortable std rate turns.
The O/B leg is on the "protected side" of the hold, so you are allowed to widen as required. You should not drift to the "non-protected side" while flying I/B. There could be high terrain there, or an airspace restriction.
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Aaaaaaagh!! So many things just clicked. Thanx
*your videos have been so helpful through my Instrument training! I guess you could say they have been...instrumental. Ok I’ll leave.*
keep up the good work, my friend. as of 10-4-21 there are 9 anonymous thumbs down from 9 clowns. no commentary as to their criticism. 9 certified clowns of aviation
I learned nothing.
Than stopp flying
First ! Thanks Jason
Ryan Seifert you bet 🙌