Decreases power to idle, pulls back on the stick to maintain altitude and decrease airspeed and lowers one wing with aileron. This man is literally following the application of a wingdrop stall to the letter.
I did some spin training in a Cub this summer and it was one of the best things I've done. It makes me a bit sad that it's not part of the PPL curriculum, because it really drives home why coordination is important and how quickly the airplane can recover once you stop abusing it. And it's not even that risky if done at altitude with a competent CFI and a utility category plane.
Hey Jason, These type of instruction is what keep us safe and alive and it's a constant reminder to all of us to practice these and other maneuvers so we can fly safe and confident for the unexpected! Thanks
This is the reason why I am super careful when making pattern turns. In PA28, I make shallow turns and never go below 85kt. Power goes to idle only on final, after the runway has been made.
That works great...right up until the engine quits on base. Better to learn to fly landing patterns closer to the field so that you are in power off gliding range of the runway at any point. Steep turns aren't more dangerous than shallow turns as long as you maintain airspeed and coordination. Shallow bank (or zero bank), slow, and uncoordinated will put you in a spin just as quick or quicker than a steep bank angle. Some planes are actually harder to stall in a steep bank because of lack of elevator authority.
@@flyingconsultant Good! Glad to hear it. Too many pilots fly huge bomber patterns over unlandable terrain. There’s no plan b in that situation. We all find ourselves having to fly a pattern that takes us out of glide range at times but too many fly every pattern as if the engine is never going to quit. Oh, I guess I should have thought to say that I was assuming traffic patterns at non-tower airports.
You should absolutely be able to land by pulling back the throttle to idle on the downwind and use pitch and bank to maintain speed and land - especially in a PA28. If you aren’t comfortable doing that, I highly recommend going out with a CFI or seasoned pilot to show you how. Ironically, the last episode (or the one before that) of Aviation News Talk Podcast explains why shallow turns in the pattern are a really bad idea (listen to the episode for specifics). Coordinated turns are fine. But airspeed is life and the lesson here is don’t get slow and know your approx airspeed in the pattern.
I used to allow more advanced students to keep about 50% power while maintining a full stall for about 10 seconds. The goal was to prevent the small airplane from spinning by using rudders only. It's a good introduction to seeing what the wing does when controlled with rudder only. It also builds muscle memory to correct the adverse yaw with rudder.
@acirinelli that's not correct. He has (or had....) what in Spain is called ULM license (ultralight). Unlike the PPL, minimum flight time prior to the checkride is only 15h. Flying is limited only to day VFR conditions, only on class F and G airspace, avoiding overflight over populated areas, and limited to 10000ft AGL and 600kg MTOW. It recently changed because thenlimit has been 1000ft AGL and 450kg MTOW on 2-seat airplanes.
tying right rudder to throttle is a great practice the best spin prevention is speed awareness. defining, placarding and briefing your min speed-and then not busting it-is the best way not to kill yourself
@@davefoord1259 AOA is great, but 90+% of GA aircraft don't have one, unfortunately. Airspeed is a very good proxy in most normal cases. Just don't get slow close to the ground, pretty simple.
I’ve learned more about coordinated turns on the finer points than I ever learned in private pilot training. My instructor encouraged coordination but never explained the why.
I flew sailplanes before flying anything else. When you do stalls and spins in a glider you don’t have the luxury of a power in or out option. Your power is nose down or up along with spoilers in or out. You’re also taught to dance on them pedals the way you would in a taildragger. I think everybody should start there. I love your videos bro!! Like I’ve said before, a guy wearing a Corsair coming at ya on his gear can’t be all bad. I think I’m going to order me one! 🤠👍
Thing about having an engine: In recips, application of increased power makes you enter the spin more abruptly, excacerbates the spin, and you must reduce power to idle to 1) reduce the spinning moments and 2) avoid dangerous airspeeds during the recovery phase.
All pilots need actual spin training and experience whether or not the ACS demands it. A good way to fold this into your training with not much additional cost is to get that spin training simultaneously with your "tailwheel" endorsement. The more spins you practice, the better. It gets to being super fun, too!
Excellent video. Going through my PPL in a 152 in stalls, pitch, power, roll correct left wing drop I never experienced a wing drop and I can't say I ever used right rudder. Now, in an SR22, she'll bite you badly if you don't go right rudder in power up. Think the '23 Duxford accident.
Good ol' Cessna. When I did CFI training in a Bonanza I only rarely was able to get a perfectly symmetrical stall. That is, one wing would always drop first.
At low speed and low power if I am turning I am also letting the nose come down. It’s just a reflex. I am never pulling in that configuration. It would just feel weird. Of course I am also not a bush pilot.
I would love to know why they thought pulling the power and looking (so much) out the side window was a good idea... and why they didn't just release the stick when the stall warning came on. An unloaded wing can't stall.
You begin to introduce stalls in a benign and non-threatening manner by demonstration, with plenty of altitude, and a rock-solid attitude of confidence and skill. Spins, you'll introduce later after stall recovery is competent. In a ground lesson, you can remind the student that most paper airplanes stall and recover a couple times every time you launch it.
Many airplanes do not have stall horns. There are however many other indicators this pilot was not trained to see them, but as I said in the video, he didn’t need indicators. He was literally putting in pro-spin inputs
I think that auto pilot technology might be contributing to this, but the reality is Flight Instructor as a group haven’t done a great job with this almost ever. That isn’t to say that there haven’t been great fight instructors, but rather that they seem to be the exception and not the rule.
@@TheFinerPoints I used to be "the spin guy" at my flight school and it was always the funnest kind of flight. We always climbed to not less than 6,500 agl for those maneuvers and although we never needed that much altitude, I insist on it anyway.
What? They weren't "okay", they both sustained massive amounts of serious injuries that will affect them both for the rest of their lives. This wasn't just some crash they just got up and walked out of 😂
We have a crisis on our hands that by sheer luck is not being talked about loud enough. Too many unqualified instructors out there. All this talk about pilot shortages, which is pushed by these big fancy flight schools are partly to blame. Coupled with the fact that the level of intelligence of the average flight candidate is going down. Its just a result of modern technology and the fact that common sense has all but left mankind. Lets face it, no one changes the oil in their vehicle anymore. We need a idiot light onvthe dash to tell us when we have a low tire! The younger generations are great at video games, but this in no way translates into physically flying an airplane. Its not a game. Very few young instructors can actually explain how an internal combustion engine works. They know just enough to pass the written test but tgey dont understand it. I grew up flying on the farm in an old 172. 1500ft one way strip. I don't know how many hrs i had when i graduated high school and finally was able to go take formal flight lessons but i could fly the heck out of that bird. I wasn't use to radio communication so i definitely chose a local airport with a control tower. I had to fire my first two instructors. They were both fresh new cfi's that were terrified of demonstrating stalls. I couldn't believe these young kids were teaching! Now im not bashing all new young instructors, dont get me wrong but we have a serious flaw in our training syllabus. Why on earth do we not require spin training?! It makes no sense whatsoever. Its not possible to understand the feeling or the sight picture of an actual spin without doing it . Our pitiful attempt at showing what a stall is in todays training is absurd! Im afraid we are headed for a train wreck with accidents skyrocketing because i constantly see adds trying to convince young people that thwre is this massive shortage of pilots. This is not representative of the truth. It resembles more of a blatant scam to get students in debt for 100 grand. Really sad. So when people say" how in thw world does a certified pilot get in these predicaments "? I say how are we so lucky we don't have more!? We MUST shout from the rooftops for change in the way we train! Anyway, thank you Jason for your dedication and hard work. We need more voices from people with the platform to speak up about these deficiencies in flight training. Im passionate about aviation safety and again, i dont mean to say that all is bad .
Sad but there were much less of these type accidents when tail draggers ruled. Then, a pilot really learned how to fly a plane and understand aerodynamics.
What do you think - would that situation still had been recoverable? Like if he wouldn't have put in power but pushed forward and hammered the right rudder down? They are quite low, so hard to tell if they would have still hit the ground? - Ok, if they don't do it, they hit the ground for sure. But where was maybe the tipping point? It is a miracle they got out of that unharmed. He then probably said: Good thing I was flying so slow already, made the impact less hard. Right? 😉
If you are an expert in recognizing an incipient stall, you can recover within 200 feet, but if you are an amateur you will need at least 500 feet in a trainer like Cessna 172.
Yes. Pilot would have had to pitch down, wings level, smoothly but promptly apply power and right rudder, and they might have resumed flight with a few feet to spare.
Don't be too confident in your assessment. Pilots with great training and lots of experience make egregious mistakes too. If you think you are immune to that, you are at greater risk.
Couldn't really see what was going on in front of him during last turn. Was this a base to final turn spin? If not why is this person so low to the ground, there are clear structures on the ground so he should be at a minimum 500 feet AGL. In either situation there is no call for pulling power to idle. If he is landing he shouldn't be doing that til the runway is made, if he's not even landing he shouldn't be doing it at all at that altitude. You say you could fix this guy with a day or two, but I think that's a dubious proposition. Presumably this guy is already a PPL at the least or if he's a student then the other person should be a CFI, so there should be no need for any more training. The issue here is a clear case of most of the problems that plague humanity. You've got a person with a low IQ performing tasks that are beyond their mental capacities and no amount of training can fix them. I've always thought that part of the testing to receive a PPL should be a base IQ test. Memerizing rules and techniques for a week to pass the test shouldn't be enough. These people become a menace not only to themselves and their passengers, but innocent bystanders on the ground.
I’m so sorry these people think they are in a fighter jet or any sort of aircraft that has 1:1 thrust ratio lol. Even if u were in jet that low of altitude those afterburner isn’t goin to save u flat out of the floor board baby.
Classic spin stall. How did this guy ever get his PPL ? Flight Instruction and Flight Instructors in Canada is and are Completely Different than what people get away with in the US, starting with the Minimum Age. All Maneuvers are illustrated in the class (on the ground) and again in the air prior to being shown a demonstration. Then when the Student is able to articulate what should happen and when are they trusted to attempt that maneuver. Furthermore, there are things that simply are not done at low altitudes. It seems to me that there are far too many, easily preventable Private Pilot accidents in the US.
"I could fix these problems if I could work with this pilot..." normally I'd say yep, for sure. But with this guy (if you check out his channel) I'm thinking any lessons to be taught would be lost on him. Just all the wrong attitudes.
Decreases power to idle, pulls back on the stick to maintain altitude and decrease airspeed and lowers one wing with aileron. This man is literally following the application of a wingdrop stall to the letter.
This is one of the most excellent videos that can save lives.I'm glad you made people aware of this.
Practicing these things at altitude is invaluable.
Im going to show all my students this video!
Use our Ground School app with them! You get it free, check it out. Visit CFI.Club
@@TheFinerPoints I do! They do! Thank you for all you do for us.
Our hangar “take a shot “ game is to take one every time you say Linburg reference 😃
I did some spin training in a Cub this summer and it was one of the best things I've done. It makes me a bit sad that it's not part of the PPL curriculum, because it really drives home why coordination is important and how quickly the airplane can recover once you stop abusing it. And it's not even that risky if done at altitude with a competent CFI and a utility category plane.
Thx Jason for this look into stall prevention...
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Hey Jason, These type of instruction is what keep us safe and alive and it's a constant reminder to all of us to practice these and other maneuvers so we can fly safe and confident for the unexpected! Thanks
This is the reason why I am super careful when making pattern turns. In PA28, I make shallow turns and never go below 85kt. Power goes to idle only on final, after the runway has been made.
That works great...right up until the engine quits on base. Better to learn to fly landing patterns closer to the field so that you are in power off gliding range of the runway at any point. Steep turns aren't more dangerous than shallow turns as long as you maintain airspeed and coordination. Shallow bank (or zero bank), slow, and uncoordinated will put you in a spin just as quick or quicker than a steep bank angle. Some planes are actually harder to stall in a steep bank because of lack of elevator authority.
@@berrywd I never said i was flying a wide pattern. I stay within the gliding range, unless I have to make adjustments, due to traffic.
So I have a question. If you only take shallow turns, what would you do if you blow past final on the base leg. Just add more left rudder?
@@flyingconsultant Good! Glad to hear it. Too many pilots fly huge bomber patterns over unlandable terrain. There’s no plan b in that situation. We all find ourselves having to fly a pattern that takes us out of glide range at times but too many fly every pattern as if the engine is never going to quit. Oh, I guess I should have thought to say that I was assuming traffic patterns at non-tower airports.
You should absolutely be able to land by pulling back the throttle to idle on the downwind and use pitch and bank to maintain speed and land - especially in a PA28. If you aren’t comfortable doing that, I highly recommend going out with a CFI or seasoned pilot to show you how. Ironically, the last episode (or the one before that) of Aviation News Talk Podcast explains why shallow turns in the pattern are a really bad idea (listen to the episode for specifics). Coordinated turns are fine. But airspeed is life and the lesson here is don’t get slow and know your approx airspeed in the pattern.
Love you brother. Awesome video. God Bless and Merry Christmas to you and your family Jason !!
Thanks! Merry Christmas to you and yours too!
I used to allow more advanced students to keep about 50% power while maintining a full stall for about 10 seconds. The goal was to prevent the small airplane from spinning by using rudders only. It's a good introduction to seeing what the wing does when controlled with rudder only. It also builds muscle memory to correct the adverse yaw with rudder.
I never go below 1.4 times stall speed and 30 degrees of bank when low to the ground! Ever.
1.4 x Stall speed. Yes!! Do not go below.
What is your increased stall speed at 30 degrees of bank? ie from load factor at 30 degrees. 1.4 seems still pretty close.
A very valuable discussion, we should all take spin training.
I heard that guy doesn’t have a license and flies a sport plane. Blames the aircraft for being unsafe and takes no responsibility.
figures a yoked tatted guy would not take responsibility for almost killing someone. Bet he's a cop
@acirinelli that's not correct. He has (or had....) what in Spain is called ULM license (ultralight). Unlike the PPL, minimum flight time prior to the checkride is only 15h. Flying is limited only to day VFR conditions, only on class F and G airspace, avoiding overflight over populated areas, and limited to 10000ft AGL and 600kg MTOW. It recently changed because thenlimit has been 1000ft AGL and 450kg MTOW on 2-seat airplanes.
Fantastic video thankyou Jason!
My pleasure!
tying right rudder to throttle is a great practice
the best spin prevention is speed awareness. defining, placarding and briefing your min speed-and then not busting it-is the best way not to kill yourself
Mate forget speed. Aoa alone causes stall. Aoa is directly related to stick position. Regardless of anything else.
@@davefoord1259 AOA is great, but 90+% of GA aircraft don't have one, unfortunately. Airspeed is a very good proxy in most normal cases. Just don't get slow close to the ground, pretty simple.
Jason, you're one of extremely few CFI-I instructors with HELPFUL "how to" videos.
I’ve learned more about coordinated turns on the finer points than I ever learned in private pilot training. My instructor encouraged coordination but never explained the why.
I flew sailplanes before flying anything else. When you do stalls and spins in a glider you don’t have the luxury of a power in or out option. Your power is nose down or up along with spoilers in or out. You’re also taught to dance on them pedals the way you would in a taildragger. I think everybody should start there. I love your videos bro!! Like I’ve said before, a guy wearing a Corsair coming at ya on his gear can’t be all bad. I think I’m going to order me one! 🤠👍
Thing about having an engine: In recips, application of increased power makes you enter the spin more abruptly, excacerbates the spin, and you must reduce power to idle to 1) reduce the spinning moments and 2) avoid dangerous airspeeds during the recovery phase.
All pilots need actual spin training and experience whether or not the ACS demands it. A good way to fold this into your training with not much additional cost is to get that spin training simultaneously with your "tailwheel" endorsement. The more spins you practice, the better. It gets to being super fun, too!
Excellent video. Going through my PPL in a 152 in stalls, pitch, power, roll correct left wing drop I never experienced a wing drop and I can't say I ever used right rudder. Now, in an SR22, she'll bite you badly if you don't go right rudder in power up. Think the '23 Duxford accident.
Good ol' Cessna. When I did CFI training in a Bonanza I only rarely was able to get a perfectly symmetrical stall. That is, one wing would always drop first.
Thanks you, sir!
Thanks!
At low speed and low power if I am turning I am also letting the nose come down. It’s just a reflex. I am never pulling in that configuration. It would just feel weird. Of course I am also not a bush pilot.
I would love to know why they thought pulling the power and looking (so much) out the side window was a good idea... and why they didn't just release the stick when the stall warning came on. An unloaded wing can't stall.
There are some student pilots who are scared to do stalls. Have you ever had a student quit after doing this spin training?
On my second lesson back in 1983, my instructor demonstrated spins to me and told me don’t try this at home. Today, intentional spins are fun to do.
You begin to introduce stalls in a benign and non-threatening manner by demonstration, with plenty of altitude, and a rock-solid attitude of confidence and skill. Spins, you'll introduce later after stall recovery is competent. In a ground lesson, you can remind the student that most paper airplanes stall and recover a couple times every time you launch it.
Send all you can 🇺🇸
Never fall in love with the rudder.
Dude the number one was pulling on the stick. Stick position causes aoa that causes stall..
I thought the engine stalled, I didn't think someone would pull the power to idle on purpose.
Why there was no stall horn ?
Many airplanes do not have stall horns. There are however many other indicators this pilot was not trained to see them, but as I said in the video, he didn’t need indicators. He was literally putting in pro-spin inputs
How to prevent? Never fly with THAT GUY.
His GF was definitely impressed--physically into the dirt.
Don't get slow!
@@Mrbfgray first impressions always the most important. lol
Stall is not your friend. How low was the airspeed?
Stall speed increases with bank angle.
@@erickborling1302 sure, still like to know what it was
Did i see he didnt have his right foot on the rudder pedals at all? It was on the floor??
That s crazy to see that people are somehow losing these basics over time.
I think that auto pilot technology might be contributing to this, but the reality is Flight Instructor as a group haven’t done a great job with this almost ever. That isn’t to say that there haven’t been great fight instructors, but rather that they seem to be the exception and not the rule.
@@TheFinerPoints I used to be "the spin guy" at my flight school and it was always the funnest kind of flight. We always climbed to not less than 6,500 agl for those maneuvers and although we never needed that much altitude, I insist on it anyway.
What? They weren't "okay", they both sustained massive amounts of serious injuries that will affect them both for the rest of their lives. This wasn't just some crash they just got up and walked out of 😂
Yeah, I think I phrased that poorly. Sorry about that. I just meant to say it’s not fatal.
Like watching a fish drown,
There's no excuse.
Difficult to stall a GA airplane with the nose below the horizon on the normal operations.
Eeesh lucky. To low to recover but low enough to survive. All 9 lives used in the making of this film
We have a crisis on our hands that by sheer luck is not being talked about loud enough. Too many unqualified instructors out there. All this talk about pilot shortages, which is pushed by these big fancy flight schools are partly to blame. Coupled with the fact that the level of intelligence of the average flight candidate is going down. Its just a result of modern technology and the fact that common sense has all but left mankind. Lets face it, no one changes the oil in their vehicle anymore. We need a idiot light onvthe dash to tell us when we have a low tire! The younger generations are great at video games, but this in no way translates into physically flying an airplane. Its not a game. Very few young instructors can actually explain how an internal combustion engine works. They know just enough to pass the written test but tgey dont understand it. I grew up flying on the farm in an old 172. 1500ft one way strip. I don't know how many hrs i had when i graduated high school and finally was able to go take formal flight lessons but i could fly the heck out of that bird. I wasn't use to radio communication so i definitely chose a local airport with a control tower. I had to fire my first two instructors. They were both fresh new cfi's that were terrified of demonstrating stalls. I couldn't believe these young kids were teaching! Now im not bashing all new young instructors, dont get me wrong but we have a serious flaw in our training syllabus. Why on earth do we not require spin training?! It makes no sense whatsoever. Its not possible to understand the feeling or the sight picture of an actual spin without doing it . Our pitiful attempt at showing what a stall is in todays training is absurd! Im afraid we are headed for a train wreck with accidents skyrocketing because i constantly see adds trying to convince young people that thwre is this massive shortage of pilots. This is not representative of the truth. It resembles more of a blatant scam to get students in debt for 100 grand. Really sad. So when people say" how in thw world does a certified pilot get in these predicaments "? I say how are we so lucky we don't have more!? We MUST shout from the rooftops for change in the way we train! Anyway, thank you Jason for your dedication and hard work. We need more voices from people with the platform to speak up about these deficiencies in flight training. Im passionate about aviation safety and again, i dont mean to say that all is bad .
Sad but there were much less of these type accidents when tail draggers ruled. Then, a pilot really learned how to fly a plane and understand aerodynamics.
That opening clip nearly stopped my heart. TRIGGER WARNING!
As a GA pilot - me too. 😱
Turn the beat around. Turn it upside down.
What do you think - would that situation still had been recoverable? Like if he wouldn't have put in power but pushed forward and hammered the right rudder down? They are quite low, so hard to tell if they would have still hit the ground? - Ok, if they don't do it, they hit the ground for sure. But where was maybe the tipping point?
It is a miracle they got out of that unharmed. He then probably said: Good thing I was flying so slow already, made the impact less hard. Right? 😉
If you are an expert in recognizing an incipient stall, you can recover within 200 feet, but if you are an amateur you will need at least 500 feet in a trainer like Cessna 172.
Yes. Pilot would have had to pitch down, wings level, smoothly but promptly apply power and right rudder, and they might have resumed flight with a few feet to spare.
I will NEVER understand how a licensed pilot would ever get into this predicament.
Don't be too confident in your assessment. Pilots with great training and lots of experience make egregious mistakes too. If you think you are immune to that, you are at greater risk.
@@Factory400 So you are telling me I cannot believe that I don't understand what I feel? GTFOH!
Advanced Ultralight. I Imagine his country has a lesser license than PPL for that aircraft type. That said, I know a few PPL's who have no clue...
@@Factory400Because their training didn't take.
@@FollowTheJohn I'm sure you never make mistakes and definitely know everything. Your learning is obviously complete.
Terrifying video- I thought they were dead
why did he power to idle? it makes no sense to do it for any reason.
Couldn't really see what was going on in front of him during last turn. Was this a base to final turn spin? If not why is this person so low to the ground, there are clear structures on the ground so he should be at a minimum 500 feet AGL. In either situation there is no call for pulling power to idle. If he is landing he shouldn't be doing that til the runway is made, if he's not even landing he shouldn't be doing it at all at that altitude. You say you could fix this guy with a day or two, but I think that's a dubious proposition. Presumably this guy is already a PPL at the least or if he's a student then the other person should be a CFI, so there should be no need for any more training. The issue here is a clear case of most of the problems that plague humanity. You've got a person with a low IQ performing tasks that are beyond their mental capacities and no amount of training can fix them. I've always thought that part of the testing to receive a PPL should be a base IQ test. Memerizing rules and techniques for a week to pass the test shouldn't be enough. These people become a menace not only to themselves and their passengers, but innocent bystanders on the ground.
I’m so sorry these people think they are in a fighter jet or any sort of aircraft that has 1:1 thrust ratio lol. Even if u were in jet that low of altitude those afterburner isn’t goin to save u flat out of the floor board baby.
I don't know why you're saying "zero right rudder"because when you can clearly see his feet, it's obvious he's pushing on the right pedal.
not immediately.
Classic spin stall. How did this guy ever get his PPL ?
Flight Instruction and Flight Instructors in Canada is and are Completely Different than what people get away with in the US, starting with the Minimum Age.
All Maneuvers are illustrated in the class (on the ground) and again in the air prior to being shown a demonstration. Then when the Student is able to articulate what should happen and when are they trusted to attempt that maneuver. Furthermore, there are things that simply are not done at low altitudes.
It seems to me that there are far too many, easily preventable Private Pilot accidents in the US.
He never had a PPL. It is a Tecnam P92 certified as ultralight.
"I could fix these problems if I could work with this pilot..." normally I'd say yep, for sure. But with this guy (if you check out his channel) I'm thinking any lessons to be taught would be lost on him. Just all the wrong attitudes.
Thanks Jason
Not sure why God spared this one. 🤡
You can teach until you turn blue in the face. Without common sense and a little bit of pilot smarts in your pocket, you shouldn't be flying!!!
Another walking coloring board trying to fly.
Could not pay me to get into a plane with a rookie looking to show off