The Death of New York Central | Success, Innovation, and One Bad Merger | History in the Dark

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 116

  • @KosaiAvonej
    @KosaiAvonej 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +60

    The Dreyfuss’ hudsons are absolutely beautiful and that none exist in preservation is a crime.

    • @subzerofromny735
      @subzerofromny735 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      You can thank the anti-steam owner of NYC, Alfred Pearlman

    • @KosaiAvonej
      @KosaiAvonej 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@subzerofromny735 I’ve heard this story, it’s infuriating to me both as an enthusiast and as someone who enjoys art and history as well.

    • @jamesholton2630
      @jamesholton2630 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Only a tender from one of them was preserved

    • @Voucher765
      @Voucher765 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@subzerofromny735 The enemy of historical value and steam locomotives, If you look at other railroads even rival Pennsylvania Railroad they saved many of their steam locomotives including their flagship K4 Pacifics

    • @David_Mattox
      @David_Mattox 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Maybe after the T1 Trust finishes PRR 5550, they can build a locomotive to go with the tender.
      It’s unlikely, but a man can DREAM!!!
      🔥🚂🔥🚂🔥

  • @Davids_Hobbies
    @Davids_Hobbies 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +26

    Fun fact, a former New York Central GP40 is actually the oldest diesel locomotive in revenue passenger service in North America: built in October of 1965 NYC 3005 is now NJ Transit GP40PH-2B 4207.

    • @rail-ryder7135
      @rail-ryder7135 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And they say Metra has outdated locomotives.

    • @nebraskajoenelson8987
      @nebraskajoenelson8987 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@rail-ryder7135 say what you will about Metra.....it's 1000 times better than amtrak or 90% of other American passenger service. We need a dang high speed system dang it

  • @kamokev_92
    @kamokev_92 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Darkness, I gotta say, I love how you keep the historical details in line but also add a bit of a comedic aspect to your videos every time! These make my day so much better

  • @Trainfan1055Janathan
    @Trainfan1055Janathan 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Whoever filmed those Penn Central trains practically tipping over and pushing the tracks down into the mud was really brave.

  • @GoofyVirginian630
    @GoofyVirginian630 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +39

    Legend has it that Pearlman’s ghost still roams the rails today, searching for that last MOHAWK.

    • @xlthecoolguy-lz7uh
      @xlthecoolguy-lz7uh 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Just makes sure he doesn't go to the NYC Railroad Museum! Or any other railroad museum for that matter...

    • @GoofyVirginian630
      @GoofyVirginian630 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@xlthecoolguy-lz7uh I want that steam engine!

    • @AnimalsVehiclesAndMore
      @AnimalsVehiclesAndMore 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      Perlman NEVER hated steam engines, nor wanted them gone. In fact, he presented NYC 2933 to the National Museum of Transportation (NMT) in St. Louis, Missouri, where 2933 resides to this day. Yes, Perlman did scrap almost every steam locomotive on the railway, but that was all in an effort to save the railway. By the time 2933 was donated to the NMT, NYC no longer needed to scrap so many locomotives in order to stay afloat, so Perlman decided to donate 2933.
      Also, NYC 2933 and 3001 are not the only surviving NYC steam locomotives, as there are several others still here today. There are two 0-6-0s (6721 and 6894), two 2-8-2s (5780 and 2976), one 4-4-2 (8085), and 4-4-0 999, which was the first locomotive to hit 100 miles per hour.

    • @GoofyVirginian630
      @GoofyVirginian630 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@AnimalsVehiclesAndMore Sorry, I'm taking the joke too seriously

    • @floydrandol2731
      @floydrandol2731 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Probably! He was Crazy! Scrapped the Hudson’s, Niagara’s too!

  • @owenruff4796
    @owenruff4796 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Gotta love the penn board members, “this is how we’ve always done it” “Ya but you’re not making any money”. “… But this is how we’ve always done it”

  • @shimesu443
    @shimesu443 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    At the instant I heard the "... boys." and Perlman appeared on the screen, I ended up with the biggest smile. I'm sure we're all fully aware that Darkness' version of Perlman is a massive exaggeration for purposes of entertainment, but damned it all if it ain't funny AF.
    Thanks, Darkness, for so many laughs. Hopefully Perlman himself would approve of this.

    • @coldwar1952
      @coldwar1952 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      A E Perlman casts a long shadow over successful profitable railroading today. He and his hand picked team saved Western Pacific, and those men Kenefick etc on to UP after that merger with the total success of which we all should know

  • @csxtrainfan319
    @csxtrainfan319 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Great vid as always, I’ve been waiting to see another railroad video, bot New York Central was one of the greatest railroads, I just hate how their merger failed miserably

  • @hudsonfan5426
    @hudsonfan5426 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    The New York Central was such a great railroad no questions asked🙂

    • @Voucher765
      @Voucher765 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      True and I would've liked it more if one man Alfred Perlman wasn't a thing

    • @coldwar1952
      @coldwar1952 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Voucher765 Your a moron

  • @haydendegrow945
    @haydendegrow945 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Back to your roots, eh Darkness? Great! Also, just so you all know, in case you're wondering, the reason NY State removed the canal tolls was that they began realizing the speed and efficiency of railroads versus canals. See, they actually tested a train carrying a specific freight load along the route of the Erie Canal versus a barge doing the same thing. The train took less than one day, the barge took two full days. They then decided that canals, as superior as they were to simple carts, were still inferior to railways.

  • @MasonRascona
    @MasonRascona 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    You need to do a video about the Delaware Lackawanna and Western… that railroad has a neat history

    • @ChristinaLarsen-dk1pe
      @ChristinaLarsen-dk1pe หลายเดือนก่อน

      New York Susquehanna & western has been around for eons and is still kicking today. They got the neatest history of them all. Alot of ROW changes over the years and been around since 1800s, still haulin freight though.

  • @xlthecoolguy-lz7uh
    @xlthecoolguy-lz7uh 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    The second I saw "New York Central" was the topic, I knew that an Alfred E Perlman segment would have to be somewhere in it.

  • @andrewbowen4544
    @andrewbowen4544 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Waited a long time for this too after The Man, The Myth, The Chainsaw. Alfred E Pearlman Video.
    And it's been too long

  • @s.p.d.magentaranger1822
    @s.p.d.magentaranger1822 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    OH GOSH HE'S BACK
    AND HE'S GOT HIS CHAINSAW

  • @JenniferinIllinois
    @JenniferinIllinois 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Always a good time when Darkness reacts to Pearlman. 😁

  • @neohistoryfan1014
    @neohistoryfan1014 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The NYC used to have a line in the Akron area (northern part of Summit County) that went from Cleveland to Brady Lake, that was abandoned in the early 70s--except for a very small portion that is infrequently used for a gravel pit around the latter point. (most of the line is now a bike trail.) The line was dark territory--Penn Central favored the former Cleveland-Alliance line of the PRR since that line is signaled.
    they also had another line in NE Ohio that was abandoned in the early 60s

    • @johnbarnett7092
      @johnbarnett7092 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The Lake Erie and Pittsburgh line was a connector line, for industrial Youngstown, Pittsburgh, and the coal fields South of Minerva. It did not need expensive signal systems. It immediately became redundant on 02/01/68 with the PRR line from Hudson to Alliance nearby.

  • @geraldallocca6858
    @geraldallocca6858 หลายเดือนก่อน

    wow! I remember taking New York Central from Grand Central Station as a child to Utica New York! What a treat!!

  • @armandoperez7967
    @armandoperez7967 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    The Penn Central merger killed the New York Central RR. It was turning around under Perlman and it is well known that he didn’t favor the merger or want it. In my opinion it should have never happened. One that should have happened was the Erie Lackawanna merger into the ATSF.

    • @johnbarnett7092
      @johnbarnett7092 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No the Government would never allow an end to end merger. Even today it has not happened

    • @dknowles60
      @dknowles60 หลายเดือนก่อน

      YEA

    • @dknowles60
      @dknowles60 หลายเดือนก่อน

      yea

  • @amtrakproductions-mx9ib
    @amtrakproductions-mx9ib หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    3001 is gonna get restored to operation!

  • @johnbarnett7092
    @johnbarnett7092 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My thoughts ...Growing up and starting with Penn Central, 09./16/68...The Central was much stronger and much leaner than the PRR, AEP, and his young management team knew the Interstate Highway system and airports would end the short hauls and passenger service, He moved at lightning speed to bring technology to the NYC,, The PRR could never do that at all, but Al Perlman could. The best move to save money was to end steam and the heavy costs of running the fleet. I would have done the same, CTC train operations and welded rail cut the cost of track expenses. The biggest savings NYC got was from the Labor agreements, near the new terminals and humps the NYC built. It was necessary

    • @dknowles60
      @dknowles60 หลายเดือนก่อน

      yea

  • @Honoryoursystem
    @Honoryoursystem 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I waited for this… and it was worth the wait…

  • @jimmypetrock
    @jimmypetrock 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Waiting for this forever.

  • @sorshiaemms5959
    @sorshiaemms5959 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Black is the best color for any kind of locomotive

  • @kittensinmittens2010
    @kittensinmittens2010 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I want more railroad videos.

  • @P0w2you
    @P0w2you 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    My pipe dream is that the ICC would've allowed (even tho no one at the time thought it was even worth trying anyway) The New York Central to Merge with the Milwaukee Road, and create the first continental spanning system. And give Pearlman control of it! The "New York & Milwaukee Central"

    • @johnbarnett7092
      @johnbarnett7092 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The Central had more in common with the ATSF at the time, but it would have destroyed a dozen railroads immediately. Streater, IL, would have been the gateway connection.

  • @0fficialdregs
    @0fficialdregs 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    yes about time, more railroad videos.

  • @workingcountry1776
    @workingcountry1776 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    This is why fascism/communism is bad. Government fully dictating how business runs never works long term. I grew up with Conrail years next to my apartment til I was in 4th grade IIRC.
    Regulation is needed but generally government takes too much of a roll or takes no action when they should

  • @K8thebest_Gaming
    @K8thebest_Gaming 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    14:48 boys hes back

  • @Iliketrains444
    @Iliketrains444 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    YESSIR New york central ❤❤❤

  • @ALCO-C855-fan
    @ALCO-C855-fan 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank the lord you finally discuss this. Perlman is oerhated and the steam thing with him is really missunderstood. Thx. for sharing.

    • @coldwar1952
      @coldwar1952 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah foamer stupidity owed to just a few stupid people ignorant of known and well documented facts

  • @angelopadmesclonedwife205
    @angelopadmesclonedwife205 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Southern Pacific was also screwed by the ICC by not buying WP or merging ATSF.

  • @classicforreal
    @classicforreal 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Yay it's train time again! And it's the anti-steam guy meme too! Get out your Stihl chainsaws!

  • @93greenstrat
    @93greenstrat 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    NYC attempted to merge with the B&O which would have made it more likely that the C&O would have taken over the combined company. But a bidding war ensued between Chessie and the Central which came down to acquiring a block of shares that were held by a group of investors over in Switzerland. It was here that Pearlman made a crucial mistake which allowed the C&O to successfully gain control of the B&O.

    • @danielcobbins8861
      @danielcobbins8861 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      C&O eventually got control of the Western Maryland RR.

    • @coldwar1952
      @coldwar1952 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      In the sense of a proven successful man of railroad business Perlman may have seemed godlike but no, it wasn't 'he' alone who allowed the C&O to gain control of anything.

    • @johnbarnett7092
      @johnbarnett7092 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@coldwar1952 I still have that newspaper clip from 1964..the C&O.B&O merger with the Central would have changed the balance of coal revenue and would have hurt the PRR and its partner NW. Robert R Young s dream was to have the Central and C&O together. The EL no one had any use for.

  • @harrisonallen651
    @harrisonallen651 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The trains are back!

  • @dannyjones3840
    @dannyjones3840 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    MY FAVORITE RAILROAD!! It's what I model in HO.

  • @jakefifeofficial
    @jakefifeofficial 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Can you please do a video on the Virginian Railway?

  • @Rbs35405
    @Rbs35405 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    AWESOME 😊

  • @UncleJoeLITE
    @UncleJoeLITE หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Never really noticed that USAer locomotives were all black. A shame, it ruins their lines. You'd love our 3801. Gorgeous and fast.

  • @glennmandigo6069
    @glennmandigo6069 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good, now we finally have all 3 components of what became Penn Central

  • @mattt233
    @mattt233 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    "I think that was the old New York Central, City of Albany. Derailed in 1920 k**led hundreds of people. Did you catch the number on the locomotive?" "Sorry. I missed it." - Egon Spengler and Winston Zedemore, Ghostbusters 2

  • @ChristinaLarsen-dk1pe
    @ChristinaLarsen-dk1pe 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    When are u gonna make a video on the new York Susquehanna & western RR? They been around for eons and are still kicking today; a very interesting history.

  • @MrSkunkwork
    @MrSkunkwork 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    NYC and GN: probably the two best [American] railroads of all time.

  • @Honoryoursystem
    @Honoryoursystem 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hope you do NYW&B next

  • @danielcobbins8861
    @danielcobbins8861 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    What's ironic about this, is before Stuart Saunders went to Pennsy, he was in charge of Norfolk & Western. N&W did improve their efficiency and revenue, all the while keeping steam locos on the roster. N&W, historically, was never happy with the status quo.

    • @dknowles60
      @dknowles60 หลายเดือนก่อน

      and was a failure at the N&W

  • @andrewwhite2863
    @andrewwhite2863 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Are there plans to do a fallen flags railroad video. For BN, MRL and Santa Fe?

  • @giogvaramia-cg5pr
    @giogvaramia-cg5pr หลายเดือนก่อน

    Cen you make video ebavt santa fe railroads history

  • @0fficialdregs
    @0fficialdregs 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    GETTING RID OF STEAM LOCOMOTIVES ISN'T MINOR, IT'S MAJOR!!!!

  • @brockakers1525
    @brockakers1525 หลายเดือนก่อน

    With name it would be pointless(?)
    They were built sleek and fast
    Streamlined for the future
    And fueled by the past
    They were tall as iron giants
    Cloaked in their steel shrouds
    Like chariots from the future
    Arriving on misty clouds
    New York Central
    Rail and machine
    Fire, smoke, and steam
    New York Central
    Ghosts of the Rails
    From New York to Chicago
    Traveling along the rails
    You could smell the history in the air
    With each breath that you'd inhaled
    Like a noble knight
    Of olden days
    With his armor, and his shield
    And four hundred thousand pounds
    Of iron, chrome, and steel
    New York Central
    Rail and machine
    Fire, smoke, and steam
    New York Central
    Ghosts of the Rails
    With miles of cars behind them
    Faster than ever before
    The twentieth Century Limited
    Majestic Commodore
    I remember the mighty Mercury
    Like it was yesterday
    The train of tomorrow
    Dressed in gleaming grey
    New York Central
    Rail and machine
    Fire, smoke, and steam
    New York Central
    Ghosts of the Rails
    New York Central
    Rail, and machin
    Fire, smoke, and steam
    New York Central
    Ghosts of the Rails

  • @martinstallard2742
    @martinstallard2742 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I'm finally early for once

  • @davidgriffin9412
    @davidgriffin9412 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Great video. Considering how Conrail was divided up by CSX and NS, New York Central should have merged with the C&O and the PRR should have merged with the N&W. The C&O and the N&W had the resources to be able to improve both railroads. If that had happened, then there would not have been such a crash of the rail industry in the North East.

    • @johnbarnett7092
      @johnbarnett7092 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That was Robert R Youngs plan in 1955

    • @Engine33Truck
      @Engine33Truck หลายเดือนก่อน

      Young, and later Perlman, envisioned exactly that. Perlman’s plan was a three way merger between the NYC, C&O, and B&O. The C&O was still turning a profit, and B&O trackage would open new markets for NYC. That would put the three in the best possible position, while he envisioned the PRR would merge with N&W.

    • @dknowles60
      @dknowles60 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      the big problem was the N&W did not want the PRR

    • @johnbarnett7092
      @johnbarnett7092 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Engine33Truck The Central saw a great opportunity, if the B&O were part of the system, the Midwest grain market that was a strong revenue source for Baltimore & Ohio. The NYC invested in 100 ton grain hoppers around that time just for that purpose.

    • @Engine33Truck
      @Engine33Truck 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@dknowles60 the N&W saw that Pennsy was a house of cards ready to collapse. I believe Perlman did also. Also, Pennsy was a major shareholder in the N&W, which is not only why Saunders was put in charge of the N&W, but was a relationship the N&W was increasingly keen on changing.

  • @The_East_Charleston_Railway
    @The_East_Charleston_Railway 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "let's talk about it... *Booyyyysss*"

  • @Steamer96
    @Steamer96 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    True Perlman did wrongfully scrap all the Hudsons and Niagras and that in itself is a crime, but remember there are no surviving steamers from New Haven or Erie.

    • @coldwar1952
      @coldwar1952 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      WRONG DUMB IGNORANT OF ACTUAL HISTORY

  • @SOUTHERN-PACIFIC-4449
    @SOUTHERN-PACIFIC-4449 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    @HistoryintheDark
    In my opinion no railroad does worse in preservation than the CENTRAL RAILROAD OF NEW JERSEY preserving a number making you want to cry 3 why speaking of CNJ you should do a video on there locomotives including camel backs

  • @subzerofromny735
    @subzerofromny735 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    New York central is all but forgotten about compared to PRR

    • @rodneykantorski736
      @rodneykantorski736 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@subzerofromny735 I'd rather have a sister working in a Whorehouse than a brother working for the Pennsylvania Railroad

    • @dknowles60
      @dknowles60 หลายเดือนก่อน

      wrong

  • @Voucher765
    @Voucher765 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The NYC gives bad vibes because of what Alfred Perlman did, The only thing that guy did was saving the railroad from financial ruin but even then it was no use as the New York Central met its demise with the Penn Central merger

    • @coldwar1952
      @coldwar1952 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Your bad vibes are due to your own ignorance of actual historical fact

    • @Voucher765
      @Voucher765 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @coldwar1952 Not true, Although he tried to save the railroad from financial stress his legacy is marred by the scrapping of steam locomotives including the famous Hudsons, Meanwhile if you look at people such as Ross Rowland, Jerry Joe Jacobson and F Nelson Blount they actually cared about steam preservation

    • @coldwar1952
      @coldwar1952 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Voucher765 Dieselization on the NYC happened under Robert Young. Perlman became chairman later who then answered to shareholders, employees, the ICC. Not a preservationist like the other names you mention we all know. Well vetted and edited books and other paperwork remain available with the facts to serve as reference. Join the NYCS Historical Society if you actually care to step away from the internet slop trough of falsehoods and learn about and help preserve the actual known facts and history of this great road and man.

  • @RailPreserver2K
    @RailPreserver2K 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Did Perlman ever have any regrets about scrapping all those steam engines?
    I asked because Southern Railway is President DW Bronson said later that he had some regrets about cutting those engines up on the Southern Railway. (Granted this comes from the film about 4501 so...)

    • @coldwar1952
      @coldwar1952 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      More stupidity from foamers. NYCS Dieselization happened under Robert R. Young, UHH, PERIOD

  • @joshmeister4449
    @joshmeister4449 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'm typing this at 1 second into this... "I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE!!!!"

  • @300poundbassman
    @300poundbassman 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Oh. The new York. Central. 🥴🥴🥴🥴

  • @laddrickstafford2153
    @laddrickstafford2153 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Look at conrail system most conrail system maid up new York central trackage think about conrail used new for k central from Pittsburgh to Chicago Chicago to new York also Boston ok crossroads conrail at Cleveland new York central also used new central track age Cleveland to st Louis only peice Pennsylvania railroad conrail used Pittsburgh to hairsburg got on reading then other railroad connections to new York central in new jersey other part Pennsylvania railroad sold to amtrack or scrap used secondary lines who best conrail new York central 70 % Pennsylvania Pittsburgh west scrap new York central better on it own

  • @SOUTHERN-PACIFIC-4449
    @SOUTHERN-PACIFIC-4449 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Like the comment if you missed darknesses train videos and comment if you could preserve a single NYC locomotive is it gonna be the Niagara or Hudson I know worlds hardest question

    • @williammacdonald3173
      @williammacdonald3173 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hudson. Better looking. Streamlined. We have the fef of UP which looks similar to a Niagara and could if UP was willing be dolled up as a Niagara

    • @davidstrawn9272
      @davidstrawn9272 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I would like the Niagara to be preserved! Dressing a UP FEF as the Niagara will be like an SP Daylight dress up as a Norfolk and Western J class if all scrapped or Norfolk and Western J class dress up as the SP Daylight locomotive if all Daylights were scrapped.

  • @alexhajnal107
    @alexhajnal107 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    00:57 _Schenectady_ → Nailed it! :^)

  • @StickwithBrooklyn
    @StickwithBrooklyn 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    0:20 MABYE U SHOULD BLAME THE PRR AND THE NYC THEMSELVES-