@subzerofromny735 The enemy of historical value and steam locomotives, If you look at other railroads even rival Pennsylvania Railroad they saved many of their steam locomotives including their flagship K4 Pacifics
Fun fact, a former New York Central GP40 is actually the oldest diesel locomotive in revenue passenger service in North America: built in October of 1965 NYC 3005 is now NJ Transit GP40PH-2B 4207.
@@rail-ryder7135 say what you will about Metra.....it's 1000 times better than amtrak or 90% of other American passenger service. We need a dang high speed system dang it
Darkness, I gotta say, I love how you keep the historical details in line but also add a bit of a comedic aspect to your videos every time! These make my day so much better
Perlman NEVER hated steam engines, nor wanted them gone. In fact, he presented NYC 2933 to the National Museum of Transportation (NMT) in St. Louis, Missouri, where 2933 resides to this day. Yes, Perlman did scrap almost every steam locomotive on the railway, but that was all in an effort to save the railway. By the time 2933 was donated to the NMT, NYC no longer needed to scrap so many locomotives in order to stay afloat, so Perlman decided to donate 2933. Also, NYC 2933 and 3001 are not the only surviving NYC steam locomotives, as there are several others still here today. There are two 0-6-0s (6721 and 6894), two 2-8-2s (5780 and 2976), one 4-4-2 (8085), and 4-4-0 999, which was the first locomotive to hit 100 miles per hour.
At the instant I heard the "... boys." and Perlman appeared on the screen, I ended up with the biggest smile. I'm sure we're all fully aware that Darkness' version of Perlman is a massive exaggeration for purposes of entertainment, but damned it all if it ain't funny AF. Thanks, Darkness, for so many laughs. Hopefully Perlman himself would approve of this.
A E Perlman casts a long shadow over successful profitable railroading today. He and his hand picked team saved Western Pacific, and those men Kenefick etc on to UP after that merger with the total success of which we all should know
Great vid as always, I’ve been waiting to see another railroad video, bot New York Central was one of the greatest railroads, I just hate how their merger failed miserably
Back to your roots, eh Darkness? Great! Also, just so you all know, in case you're wondering, the reason NY State removed the canal tolls was that they began realizing the speed and efficiency of railroads versus canals. See, they actually tested a train carrying a specific freight load along the route of the Erie Canal versus a barge doing the same thing. The train took less than one day, the barge took two full days. They then decided that canals, as superior as they were to simple carts, were still inferior to railways.
New York Susquehanna & western has been around for eons and is still kicking today. They got the neatest history of them all. Alot of ROW changes over the years and been around since 1800s, still haulin freight though.
The NYC used to have a line in the Akron area (northern part of Summit County) that went from Cleveland to Brady Lake, that was abandoned in the early 70s--except for a very small portion that is infrequently used for a gravel pit around the latter point. (most of the line is now a bike trail.) The line was dark territory--Penn Central favored the former Cleveland-Alliance line of the PRR since that line is signaled. they also had another line in NE Ohio that was abandoned in the early 60s
The Lake Erie and Pittsburgh line was a connector line, for industrial Youngstown, Pittsburgh, and the coal fields South of Minerva. It did not need expensive signal systems. It immediately became redundant on 02/01/68 with the PRR line from Hudson to Alliance nearby.
The Penn Central merger killed the New York Central RR. It was turning around under Perlman and it is well known that he didn’t favor the merger or want it. In my opinion it should have never happened. One that should have happened was the Erie Lackawanna merger into the ATSF.
My thoughts ...Growing up and starting with Penn Central, 09./16/68...The Central was much stronger and much leaner than the PRR, AEP, and his young management team knew the Interstate Highway system and airports would end the short hauls and passenger service, He moved at lightning speed to bring technology to the NYC,, The PRR could never do that at all, but Al Perlman could. The best move to save money was to end steam and the heavy costs of running the fleet. I would have done the same, CTC train operations and welded rail cut the cost of track expenses. The biggest savings NYC got was from the Labor agreements, near the new terminals and humps the NYC built. It was necessary
My pipe dream is that the ICC would've allowed (even tho no one at the time thought it was even worth trying anyway) The New York Central to Merge with the Milwaukee Road, and create the first continental spanning system. And give Pearlman control of it! The "New York & Milwaukee Central"
The Central had more in common with the ATSF at the time, but it would have destroyed a dozen railroads immediately. Streater, IL, would have been the gateway connection.
This is why fascism/communism is bad. Government fully dictating how business runs never works long term. I grew up with Conrail years next to my apartment til I was in 4th grade IIRC. Regulation is needed but generally government takes too much of a roll or takes no action when they should
NYC attempted to merge with the B&O which would have made it more likely that the C&O would have taken over the combined company. But a bidding war ensued between Chessie and the Central which came down to acquiring a block of shares that were held by a group of investors over in Switzerland. It was here that Pearlman made a crucial mistake which allowed the C&O to successfully gain control of the B&O.
In the sense of a proven successful man of railroad business Perlman may have seemed godlike but no, it wasn't 'he' alone who allowed the C&O to gain control of anything.
@@coldwar1952 I still have that newspaper clip from 1964..the C&O.B&O merger with the Central would have changed the balance of coal revenue and would have hurt the PRR and its partner NW. Robert R Young s dream was to have the Central and C&O together. The EL no one had any use for.
"I think that was the old New York Central, City of Albany. Derailed in 1920 k**led hundreds of people. Did you catch the number on the locomotive?" "Sorry. I missed it." - Egon Spengler and Winston Zedemore, Ghostbusters 2
When are u gonna make a video on the new York Susquehanna & western RR? They been around for eons and are still kicking today; a very interesting history.
What's ironic about this, is before Stuart Saunders went to Pennsy, he was in charge of Norfolk & Western. N&W did improve their efficiency and revenue, all the while keeping steam locos on the roster. N&W, historically, was never happy with the status quo.
With name it would be pointless(?) They were built sleek and fast Streamlined for the future And fueled by the past They were tall as iron giants Cloaked in their steel shrouds Like chariots from the future Arriving on misty clouds New York Central Rail and machine Fire, smoke, and steam New York Central Ghosts of the Rails From New York to Chicago Traveling along the rails You could smell the history in the air With each breath that you'd inhaled Like a noble knight Of olden days With his armor, and his shield And four hundred thousand pounds Of iron, chrome, and steel New York Central Rail and machine Fire, smoke, and steam New York Central Ghosts of the Rails With miles of cars behind them Faster than ever before The twentieth Century Limited Majestic Commodore I remember the mighty Mercury Like it was yesterday The train of tomorrow Dressed in gleaming grey New York Central Rail and machine Fire, smoke, and steam New York Central Ghosts of the Rails New York Central Rail, and machin Fire, smoke, and steam New York Central Ghosts of the Rails
Great video. Considering how Conrail was divided up by CSX and NS, New York Central should have merged with the C&O and the PRR should have merged with the N&W. The C&O and the N&W had the resources to be able to improve both railroads. If that had happened, then there would not have been such a crash of the rail industry in the North East.
Young, and later Perlman, envisioned exactly that. Perlman’s plan was a three way merger between the NYC, C&O, and B&O. The C&O was still turning a profit, and B&O trackage would open new markets for NYC. That would put the three in the best possible position, while he envisioned the PRR would merge with N&W.
@@Engine33Truck The Central saw a great opportunity, if the B&O were part of the system, the Midwest grain market that was a strong revenue source for Baltimore & Ohio. The NYC invested in 100 ton grain hoppers around that time just for that purpose.
@@dknowles60 the N&W saw that Pennsy was a house of cards ready to collapse. I believe Perlman did also. Also, Pennsy was a major shareholder in the N&W, which is not only why Saunders was put in charge of the N&W, but was a relationship the N&W was increasingly keen on changing.
True Perlman did wrongfully scrap all the Hudsons and Niagras and that in itself is a crime, but remember there are no surviving steamers from New Haven or Erie.
@HistoryintheDark In my opinion no railroad does worse in preservation than the CENTRAL RAILROAD OF NEW JERSEY preserving a number making you want to cry 3 why speaking of CNJ you should do a video on there locomotives including camel backs
The NYC gives bad vibes because of what Alfred Perlman did, The only thing that guy did was saving the railroad from financial ruin but even then it was no use as the New York Central met its demise with the Penn Central merger
@coldwar1952 Not true, Although he tried to save the railroad from financial stress his legacy is marred by the scrapping of steam locomotives including the famous Hudsons, Meanwhile if you look at people such as Ross Rowland, Jerry Joe Jacobson and F Nelson Blount they actually cared about steam preservation
@@Voucher765 Dieselization on the NYC happened under Robert Young. Perlman became chairman later who then answered to shareholders, employees, the ICC. Not a preservationist like the other names you mention we all know. Well vetted and edited books and other paperwork remain available with the facts to serve as reference. Join the NYCS Historical Society if you actually care to step away from the internet slop trough of falsehoods and learn about and help preserve the actual known facts and history of this great road and man.
Did Perlman ever have any regrets about scrapping all those steam engines? I asked because Southern Railway is President DW Bronson said later that he had some regrets about cutting those engines up on the Southern Railway. (Granted this comes from the film about 4501 so...)
Look at conrail system most conrail system maid up new York central trackage think about conrail used new for k central from Pittsburgh to Chicago Chicago to new York also Boston ok crossroads conrail at Cleveland new York central also used new central track age Cleveland to st Louis only peice Pennsylvania railroad conrail used Pittsburgh to hairsburg got on reading then other railroad connections to new York central in new jersey other part Pennsylvania railroad sold to amtrack or scrap used secondary lines who best conrail new York central 70 % Pennsylvania Pittsburgh west scrap new York central better on it own
Like the comment if you missed darknesses train videos and comment if you could preserve a single NYC locomotive is it gonna be the Niagara or Hudson I know worlds hardest question
I would like the Niagara to be preserved! Dressing a UP FEF as the Niagara will be like an SP Daylight dress up as a Norfolk and Western J class if all scrapped or Norfolk and Western J class dress up as the SP Daylight locomotive if all Daylights were scrapped.
The Dreyfuss’ hudsons are absolutely beautiful and that none exist in preservation is a crime.
You can thank the anti-steam owner of NYC, Alfred Pearlman
@@subzerofromny735 I’ve heard this story, it’s infuriating to me both as an enthusiast and as someone who enjoys art and history as well.
Only a tender from one of them was preserved
@subzerofromny735 The enemy of historical value and steam locomotives, If you look at other railroads even rival Pennsylvania Railroad they saved many of their steam locomotives including their flagship K4 Pacifics
Maybe after the T1 Trust finishes PRR 5550, they can build a locomotive to go with the tender.
It’s unlikely, but a man can DREAM!!!
🔥🚂🔥🚂🔥
Fun fact, a former New York Central GP40 is actually the oldest diesel locomotive in revenue passenger service in North America: built in October of 1965 NYC 3005 is now NJ Transit GP40PH-2B 4207.
And they say Metra has outdated locomotives.
@@rail-ryder7135 say what you will about Metra.....it's 1000 times better than amtrak or 90% of other American passenger service. We need a dang high speed system dang it
Darkness, I gotta say, I love how you keep the historical details in line but also add a bit of a comedic aspect to your videos every time! These make my day so much better
Whoever filmed those Penn Central trains practically tipping over and pushing the tracks down into the mud was really brave.
Legend has it that Pearlman’s ghost still roams the rails today, searching for that last MOHAWK.
Just makes sure he doesn't go to the NYC Railroad Museum! Or any other railroad museum for that matter...
@@xlthecoolguy-lz7uh I want that steam engine!
Perlman NEVER hated steam engines, nor wanted them gone. In fact, he presented NYC 2933 to the National Museum of Transportation (NMT) in St. Louis, Missouri, where 2933 resides to this day. Yes, Perlman did scrap almost every steam locomotive on the railway, but that was all in an effort to save the railway. By the time 2933 was donated to the NMT, NYC no longer needed to scrap so many locomotives in order to stay afloat, so Perlman decided to donate 2933.
Also, NYC 2933 and 3001 are not the only surviving NYC steam locomotives, as there are several others still here today. There are two 0-6-0s (6721 and 6894), two 2-8-2s (5780 and 2976), one 4-4-2 (8085), and 4-4-0 999, which was the first locomotive to hit 100 miles per hour.
@@AnimalsVehiclesAndMore Sorry, I'm taking the joke too seriously
Probably! He was Crazy! Scrapped the Hudson’s, Niagara’s too!
Gotta love the penn board members, “this is how we’ve always done it” “Ya but you’re not making any money”. “… But this is how we’ve always done it”
At the instant I heard the "... boys." and Perlman appeared on the screen, I ended up with the biggest smile. I'm sure we're all fully aware that Darkness' version of Perlman is a massive exaggeration for purposes of entertainment, but damned it all if it ain't funny AF.
Thanks, Darkness, for so many laughs. Hopefully Perlman himself would approve of this.
A E Perlman casts a long shadow over successful profitable railroading today. He and his hand picked team saved Western Pacific, and those men Kenefick etc on to UP after that merger with the total success of which we all should know
Great vid as always, I’ve been waiting to see another railroad video, bot New York Central was one of the greatest railroads, I just hate how their merger failed miserably
The New York Central was such a great railroad no questions asked🙂
True and I would've liked it more if one man Alfred Perlman wasn't a thing
@@Voucher765 Your a moron
Back to your roots, eh Darkness? Great! Also, just so you all know, in case you're wondering, the reason NY State removed the canal tolls was that they began realizing the speed and efficiency of railroads versus canals. See, they actually tested a train carrying a specific freight load along the route of the Erie Canal versus a barge doing the same thing. The train took less than one day, the barge took two full days. They then decided that canals, as superior as they were to simple carts, were still inferior to railways.
You need to do a video about the Delaware Lackawanna and Western… that railroad has a neat history
New York Susquehanna & western has been around for eons and is still kicking today. They got the neatest history of them all. Alot of ROW changes over the years and been around since 1800s, still haulin freight though.
The second I saw "New York Central" was the topic, I knew that an Alfred E Perlman segment would have to be somewhere in it.
Waited a long time for this too after The Man, The Myth, The Chainsaw. Alfred E Pearlman Video.
And it's been too long
OH GOSH HE'S BACK
AND HE'S GOT HIS CHAINSAW
Always a good time when Darkness reacts to Pearlman. 😁
The NYC used to have a line in the Akron area (northern part of Summit County) that went from Cleveland to Brady Lake, that was abandoned in the early 70s--except for a very small portion that is infrequently used for a gravel pit around the latter point. (most of the line is now a bike trail.) The line was dark territory--Penn Central favored the former Cleveland-Alliance line of the PRR since that line is signaled.
they also had another line in NE Ohio that was abandoned in the early 60s
The Lake Erie and Pittsburgh line was a connector line, for industrial Youngstown, Pittsburgh, and the coal fields South of Minerva. It did not need expensive signal systems. It immediately became redundant on 02/01/68 with the PRR line from Hudson to Alliance nearby.
wow! I remember taking New York Central from Grand Central Station as a child to Utica New York! What a treat!!
The Penn Central merger killed the New York Central RR. It was turning around under Perlman and it is well known that he didn’t favor the merger or want it. In my opinion it should have never happened. One that should have happened was the Erie Lackawanna merger into the ATSF.
No the Government would never allow an end to end merger. Even today it has not happened
YEA
yea
3001 is gonna get restored to operation!
My thoughts ...Growing up and starting with Penn Central, 09./16/68...The Central was much stronger and much leaner than the PRR, AEP, and his young management team knew the Interstate Highway system and airports would end the short hauls and passenger service, He moved at lightning speed to bring technology to the NYC,, The PRR could never do that at all, but Al Perlman could. The best move to save money was to end steam and the heavy costs of running the fleet. I would have done the same, CTC train operations and welded rail cut the cost of track expenses. The biggest savings NYC got was from the Labor agreements, near the new terminals and humps the NYC built. It was necessary
yea
I waited for this… and it was worth the wait…
Waiting for this forever.
Black is the best color for any kind of locomotive
I want more railroad videos.
My pipe dream is that the ICC would've allowed (even tho no one at the time thought it was even worth trying anyway) The New York Central to Merge with the Milwaukee Road, and create the first continental spanning system. And give Pearlman control of it! The "New York & Milwaukee Central"
The Central had more in common with the ATSF at the time, but it would have destroyed a dozen railroads immediately. Streater, IL, would have been the gateway connection.
yes about time, more railroad videos.
This is why fascism/communism is bad. Government fully dictating how business runs never works long term. I grew up with Conrail years next to my apartment til I was in 4th grade IIRC.
Regulation is needed but generally government takes too much of a roll or takes no action when they should
14:48 boys hes back
YESSIR New york central ❤❤❤
Thank the lord you finally discuss this. Perlman is oerhated and the steam thing with him is really missunderstood. Thx. for sharing.
Yeah foamer stupidity owed to just a few stupid people ignorant of known and well documented facts
Southern Pacific was also screwed by the ICC by not buying WP or merging ATSF.
Yay it's train time again! And it's the anti-steam guy meme too! Get out your Stihl chainsaws!
NYC attempted to merge with the B&O which would have made it more likely that the C&O would have taken over the combined company. But a bidding war ensued between Chessie and the Central which came down to acquiring a block of shares that were held by a group of investors over in Switzerland. It was here that Pearlman made a crucial mistake which allowed the C&O to successfully gain control of the B&O.
C&O eventually got control of the Western Maryland RR.
In the sense of a proven successful man of railroad business Perlman may have seemed godlike but no, it wasn't 'he' alone who allowed the C&O to gain control of anything.
@@coldwar1952 I still have that newspaper clip from 1964..the C&O.B&O merger with the Central would have changed the balance of coal revenue and would have hurt the PRR and its partner NW. Robert R Young s dream was to have the Central and C&O together. The EL no one had any use for.
The trains are back!
MY FAVORITE RAILROAD!! It's what I model in HO.
Can you please do a video on the Virginian Railway?
AWESOME 😊
Never really noticed that USAer locomotives were all black. A shame, it ruins their lines. You'd love our 3801. Gorgeous and fast.
Good, now we finally have all 3 components of what became Penn Central
"I think that was the old New York Central, City of Albany. Derailed in 1920 k**led hundreds of people. Did you catch the number on the locomotive?" "Sorry. I missed it." - Egon Spengler and Winston Zedemore, Ghostbusters 2
When are u gonna make a video on the new York Susquehanna & western RR? They been around for eons and are still kicking today; a very interesting history.
NYC and GN: probably the two best [American] railroads of all time.
Hope you do NYW&B next
What's ironic about this, is before Stuart Saunders went to Pennsy, he was in charge of Norfolk & Western. N&W did improve their efficiency and revenue, all the while keeping steam locos on the roster. N&W, historically, was never happy with the status quo.
and was a failure at the N&W
Are there plans to do a fallen flags railroad video. For BN, MRL and Santa Fe?
Cen you make video ebavt santa fe railroads history
GETTING RID OF STEAM LOCOMOTIVES ISN'T MINOR, IT'S MAJOR!!!!
With name it would be pointless(?)
They were built sleek and fast
Streamlined for the future
And fueled by the past
They were tall as iron giants
Cloaked in their steel shrouds
Like chariots from the future
Arriving on misty clouds
New York Central
Rail and machine
Fire, smoke, and steam
New York Central
Ghosts of the Rails
From New York to Chicago
Traveling along the rails
You could smell the history in the air
With each breath that you'd inhaled
Like a noble knight
Of olden days
With his armor, and his shield
And four hundred thousand pounds
Of iron, chrome, and steel
New York Central
Rail and machine
Fire, smoke, and steam
New York Central
Ghosts of the Rails
With miles of cars behind them
Faster than ever before
The twentieth Century Limited
Majestic Commodore
I remember the mighty Mercury
Like it was yesterday
The train of tomorrow
Dressed in gleaming grey
New York Central
Rail and machine
Fire, smoke, and steam
New York Central
Ghosts of the Rails
New York Central
Rail, and machin
Fire, smoke, and steam
New York Central
Ghosts of the Rails
I'm finally early for once
Great video. Considering how Conrail was divided up by CSX and NS, New York Central should have merged with the C&O and the PRR should have merged with the N&W. The C&O and the N&W had the resources to be able to improve both railroads. If that had happened, then there would not have been such a crash of the rail industry in the North East.
That was Robert R Youngs plan in 1955
Young, and later Perlman, envisioned exactly that. Perlman’s plan was a three way merger between the NYC, C&O, and B&O. The C&O was still turning a profit, and B&O trackage would open new markets for NYC. That would put the three in the best possible position, while he envisioned the PRR would merge with N&W.
the big problem was the N&W did not want the PRR
@@Engine33Truck The Central saw a great opportunity, if the B&O were part of the system, the Midwest grain market that was a strong revenue source for Baltimore & Ohio. The NYC invested in 100 ton grain hoppers around that time just for that purpose.
@@dknowles60 the N&W saw that Pennsy was a house of cards ready to collapse. I believe Perlman did also. Also, Pennsy was a major shareholder in the N&W, which is not only why Saunders was put in charge of the N&W, but was a relationship the N&W was increasingly keen on changing.
"let's talk about it... *Booyyyysss*"
True Perlman did wrongfully scrap all the Hudsons and Niagras and that in itself is a crime, but remember there are no surviving steamers from New Haven or Erie.
WRONG DUMB IGNORANT OF ACTUAL HISTORY
@HistoryintheDark
In my opinion no railroad does worse in preservation than the CENTRAL RAILROAD OF NEW JERSEY preserving a number making you want to cry 3 why speaking of CNJ you should do a video on there locomotives including camel backs
New York central is all but forgotten about compared to PRR
@@subzerofromny735 I'd rather have a sister working in a Whorehouse than a brother working for the Pennsylvania Railroad
wrong
The NYC gives bad vibes because of what Alfred Perlman did, The only thing that guy did was saving the railroad from financial ruin but even then it was no use as the New York Central met its demise with the Penn Central merger
Your bad vibes are due to your own ignorance of actual historical fact
@coldwar1952 Not true, Although he tried to save the railroad from financial stress his legacy is marred by the scrapping of steam locomotives including the famous Hudsons, Meanwhile if you look at people such as Ross Rowland, Jerry Joe Jacobson and F Nelson Blount they actually cared about steam preservation
@@Voucher765 Dieselization on the NYC happened under Robert Young. Perlman became chairman later who then answered to shareholders, employees, the ICC. Not a preservationist like the other names you mention we all know. Well vetted and edited books and other paperwork remain available with the facts to serve as reference. Join the NYCS Historical Society if you actually care to step away from the internet slop trough of falsehoods and learn about and help preserve the actual known facts and history of this great road and man.
Did Perlman ever have any regrets about scrapping all those steam engines?
I asked because Southern Railway is President DW Bronson said later that he had some regrets about cutting those engines up on the Southern Railway. (Granted this comes from the film about 4501 so...)
More stupidity from foamers. NYCS Dieselization happened under Robert R. Young, UHH, PERIOD
I'm typing this at 1 second into this... "I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE!!!!"
Oh. The new York. Central. 🥴🥴🥴🥴
Look at conrail system most conrail system maid up new York central trackage think about conrail used new for k central from Pittsburgh to Chicago Chicago to new York also Boston ok crossroads conrail at Cleveland new York central also used new central track age Cleveland to st Louis only peice Pennsylvania railroad conrail used Pittsburgh to hairsburg got on reading then other railroad connections to new York central in new jersey other part Pennsylvania railroad sold to amtrack or scrap used secondary lines who best conrail new York central 70 % Pennsylvania Pittsburgh west scrap new York central better on it own
Like the comment if you missed darknesses train videos and comment if you could preserve a single NYC locomotive is it gonna be the Niagara or Hudson I know worlds hardest question
Hudson. Better looking. Streamlined. We have the fef of UP which looks similar to a Niagara and could if UP was willing be dolled up as a Niagara
I would like the Niagara to be preserved! Dressing a UP FEF as the Niagara will be like an SP Daylight dress up as a Norfolk and Western J class if all scrapped or Norfolk and Western J class dress up as the SP Daylight locomotive if all Daylights were scrapped.
00:57 _Schenectady_ → Nailed it! :^)
0:20 MABYE U SHOULD BLAME THE PRR AND THE NYC THEMSELVES-