7 Ranges All LIVE POKER PLAYERS Need To Use
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Get every open-raising range for live #poker according to the GTO solver. This video reviews each GTO-approved preflop opening range, from a tight 9% UTG range to a 44% SB stealing range. No available solve currently allows for 2 preflop callers in a live cash game, but this solve does and the live poker ranges as a result are all the better for it!
0:00 Good Morning
0:44 Live GTO Preflop Ranges
3:29 UTG Raising Range
8:39 MP Raising Range
9:26 LJ Raising Range
10:47 HJ Raising Range
12:29 CO Raising Range
17:21 Button Raising Range
19:29 SB Raising Range
21:24 Download These Ranges Now
DOWNLOAD THE APP WITH THESE FREE RANGES
redchippoker.com/gto-ranges-app
RELATED VIDEOS
· GTO vs Exploitative Ranges: • GTO vs. Exploitative P...
· Exploitative FR Ranges: • GTO Poker Ranges For O...
FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL
· Twitter: / splitsuit
· Facebook: / splitsuit
· Instagram: / splitsuit - เกม
Download *The GTO Ranges App* and get all of these ranges for free: redchippoker.com/gto-ranges-app (or unlock the app and get 100% of the ranges including preflop calls, 3-bets, squeezes, 4-bets, and more!)
We built the most powerful super computer known to man. We asked it how to play poker optimally. After 7,500,000 years of calculations it gave us the answer: "Forty two".
lol
It's funny. These guys haven't heard of cloud computing.
Best most insightful and on-point poker analysis on YT. Thanks for this James. Fun project. Which is the only regard in which solvers should be held. Way too many are out to lunch in their belief it's a way forward to riches. Every hour spent trying to 'learn' gto is time taken away from finding real holes in one's human-play game. That's the only kind of game we encounter. Well, at least live (assuming no cheating...which you should always be wary of because it will forever be part of the game).
Cheers Jay, and you're very welcome!
ye its good i atch it and i follow james a long time. but upswing poker is also verry verry eye opening
Fascinating, many thanks!
Straightforward Thank you
Great information. Thank you so much.
You're very welcome Justin!
My favorite way to study currently is going through the ranges live on the app as you discuss them. I watch over and over. I know you don’t want to give away your premium solver content but a video where I can play in the app while you talk about it is very mind opening. Nice video. Great app.
Have tried them for a couple of sessions and have seen a 2x results increase.
That's awesome to hear Marcus! And I appreciate your suggestion too 👍
It's great you got all the way up to two callers. When you get up to four people who are willing to cold-call a threebet from UTG+1, you can explain some of the games around here! 🙂 (But seriously, THANK YOU for the work you've done.)
Cheers Tarl!
really great. thank you Sir !
You're very welcome!
Good stuff !!
Thanks Francisco!
Maybe the small pocket pairs are not opened until the SB due to the 100 BB stack depth. Against a solver, you wouldn't be getting the correct implied odds due to the stack depth restrictions when hitting a set and the solver likely wouldn't pay you off like a live cash game player.
You have a very polished vlog
Thank you Susan!
Cool video, especially for a long time online player with little live experience. Few questions:
1) Do you recommend simply using the 4x open sizing in live play? (seems very unusual to me) if so, why?
2) What would the most important exploits be from various positions in typical mistakes live games? Again, as a primarily online player, many of these ranges look very different from, say, those found in Acevedo‘s modern theory book. Do you have any vids on how best to deviate exploitatively in various live games?
3) Do you recommend agreeing to chop generally, if most players in certain games generally do? If you decide to not chop, do you like the sb solution here, as opposed to a strategy with lots of sb limps (which, again, seems to be the gto trend amongst good players online)?
Appreciate the vids, solves and most of all your insight!
1. Use a 4x sizing and +1 bb for every limper when ISO’ing. Reason is players in the live realm aren’t studied or knowledgeable about how to alter their defend ranges vs different sizing, so exploitative you’re attempting getting the maximum.
2. Live exploits can be its own video series.. you have so many exploits live that don’t exist in the online realm: Tells, player type analysis (based of clothes, age, gender, personality, and drug vices(drinking at the table, leaving to smoke ect.), exploiting positional advantage is actually greater in low stakes live games due to the player pool are for the most part broken up into 4 groups (fish, nits, donkeys, and Regs) and once you study them at the table you’ll find your exploits, Majority of players only 3-bet JJ+ and nits don’t often 3-bet AK, listen to how they talk about a hand because it give you insight to how they view/play the game and from their you can extrapolate what’s the optimal exploits vs this player. If you want to learn more about tells then read or watch Caro’s book of tells, and how to Analyze people by David T Abbots.
3. Do not fucking chop! Unless it’s a reg, you feel you have little to no edge against. If you studied SB vs BB ranges you’re 10000 miles ahead of the pool, and it will be your largest +EV spot consistently. Also people asking you to chop 9/10 indicates weakness, and when they say no chop they have a jackpot potential hand.
thanks James for the work and this very informational video!! 2 questions: did you do the calculation considering rake? and is there a logical reason for the solver to favor A5s over A2s so much int the utg range?
You're very welcome! Answers: 1. We ran the solve with 0% rake. 2. Keep in mind that each AXs only has 4 combos, so it's not a massive part of the range. That said, it would make sense that A5s > A2s since A5s can pair the 5 and be ahead of 22-44, whereas A2s can never do that. There is possibly some postflop texture blocking effects too...
I play this range in 1/3. When you are getting fairly good cards this range feels GREAT. If you are not getting great cards you just open up a bit. These ranges are a super solid starting point for small stakes.
This is incredible just from a mathamatical perspective alone. Well done.
Thank you Jeffrey!
It would quite interesting to see the calling range with 4x open. I remember there is huge difference of bb's calling range from 2x,2.5x and 4x open. So this might explains why the open range diverges from the range we got used in live poker.
These are done with a 4x OR size 👍
This is incredible, James! It would be great if you could research a strategy that includes open limping as well, and it would also be great to solve for different open sizings like 3bb, which would probably be wider, and compare 4bb vs. 3bb strategies for which is higher EV overall.
its 2023.. just stop limping smh
@@DanNguyen-bu5xl To be fair you can get an edge since very little other players study limping gto responses.
Never open limp...
New to GTO ranges, but the lack of all suited connectors (excepting the SB) is very surprising.
Realize this is a starting point for raising and very generalized in the solver. Many factors depend on the table and players.
Like in my games I do not raise at all 55 and 66 UTG. There are too many set over set situations where I get crushed and lose a stack that doesn't compensate for all the raise steals or reiase-CB steals. 77 is the cut off for me assuming KK+ 3bs.
I like raising 0 gap suited connectors down to 76s.
But this is due to my games and every game is different.
As an exaggerated example imagine a game where players play fit or fold and always raise 2 pair + and fold when they miss. They never bluff and once 1 callers no one else does. You can open much wider and bet much smaller to steal pots. But you still shouldn't be opening 72o which is way outside these guided ranges.
Overall I think they are a very good starting point.
Very nice video!
Good GTO ranges. I try to stay close to them because I do try to play GTO. However I do believe limping can be good too. Even open limping. As an exploit against certain player types.
I understand that it is immensely (!)complex to solve including limps. Still though I use limps in my game at times, because I think it can be putting my money in better as opposed to raising.
Cheers! It sounds like you are finding limps as exploits =)
congrats you discovered that all the pros have always been wrong lmao..
Hey man just wanted to say I enjoy your stuff! I live local go to orange city here and there! I’m trying to take it more serious and spend more time playing! Any advice or books or reads to become more knowledgeable! I ended up winning 600 12 nl! Honestly pretty easy there with the Rec players at orange city!
Thanks Steven! For books I would suggest one of my workbooks or my new book GTO Gems. I also suggest CORE (redchippoker.com/launch-core) if you like videos/courses. Keep up the good work in Orange City!
Hi, love your videos! Do you think you can do a video on 4 bet and 5 bet sizing and why you would choose different sizings? I can't seem to find this info anywhere in the poker world and would love to hear your opinion.
Gto wizard has a blog post on it
Thanks Mad! Are you looking at this from more of a GTO or exploitative point of view?
@@ThePokerBank Hello, thanks for replying. I was thinking more gto, as I use red chips 6 max gto ranges on the app. Currently I use a 3x default for 4 bets and 5 best, but just not sure if that's best. Should it change based on being in position or out? Should it be bigger since it's mostly value save A5s type hands? Or smaller? I'd love and appreciate any feedback you have, thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment!
Solvers are usually set for 100bb. Not many 4 or 5bets on that stack size that isn't just allin. I have seen Doug polks charts have 4 betting ranges tho.
@@madmunoz1935 3x as a default is pretty large. The 6max ranges in the app use a 2.2x 4-Bet size IP and 2.8x size OOP fwiw.
These ranges are significantly tighter than anything I have ever seen, in some cases 3 or 4 PIPs tighter, especially with the button RFI. I guess the thing to remember is GTO is a baseline that you use to help you figure out what your opponents are doing incorrectly
The larger OR size will do that. Of course, you don't need to use a 4x OR size, but that's pretty par for the course in many live cash games.
Player types Youre up against is of utmost importance. If youre in CO and the button and blinds are nits, then you open just about any two cards.
100% agreed.
That's "exploitative" play. He's talking about GTO play, which only considers hole cards and betting conditions.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ I believe the solver suggests to play A5s 100% of the time compared to pocket 9’s 50% of the time from UTG because with A5s, you meet all the criteria for what’s considered a good hand, you have an Ace, yes so your kicker is a 5 but … you have an Ace in your hand 💪💪💪
So with A5s, you have highness, straightness and flush potential all three combined in one hand. This is in addition to the normal two pair, and tripe potential too. You can flop a lot of things with A5s. Pocket 9’s on the other hand, MUST hit the flop, which is less likely, over cards are likely to come, so the hand (99) can be tough to play for value oop, and with so many people yet to act, it’s very likely someone will wake up with something juicier than pocket 99s. If a 9 doesn’t hit flop, get out!!!, you’re not likely to improve your missed 9. So that’s why the solver recommended 100% play for A5s and 50% for 99s from UTG.
Interesting how this compares to ODIN which suggests ranges that are significantly wider (even UTG+1 is raising any pair)
ANY pair? Thats extremally wide.
I'm guessing these ranges are so broadway heavy and light on the implied odds hands like 22-55 and 65S is due to A the 100BB assumed stack and B, the 4X open. Most on line 100BB games are using a 2.5 open raise and in live games, 4X is the standard small open size, meaning really, we're playing more like we have shorter stacks post flop when you consider SPR. Low SPR, the more you value broadways and the less you value small pairs and suited connectors.
Correct. The OR & stack sizes (and really all preflop sizes) baked into the gametree will impact everything.
Many poker rooms in my area do not allow chopping of the blinds. I'm sure the house has done the calculation on the odds the players will get the pot up to the threshold for the house to take a rake.
Where are you located? And you are probably right 👍
i tried this at Orange city poker fl. it does not work all to well. Ppl just go ahead and bet anyway and usually win on the river its like playing 3/6 limit. plus most people donot even play the right way. I think this will work in a tournament style of playing not really in a cash game.. Also, everyone who post there live hand on youtube always show winning hands. would love to see losing hands more often just to show how you can fight your way back.
You should be aware that there are other training sites (competitors) that have very different, wider, opening ranges for each of the positions (also based on 8 positions). There are reasons for this, so knowing how each of their solvers were constructed is very important before you just go out and use GTO ranges as your baseline.
The quality of the gametree will certainly impact the output, and over-simplification of the preflop tree especially can lead to much wider ranges for sure.
@ThePokerBank it's one thing to say that. It's another thing to understand the magnitude of what that actually says about solvers
1/2 live cash game normally avg stack is 200bb and open size pre flop is around 8GB. . .
Are these the ranges of hands you should RAISE in each position pre flop, if so are their ranges to when you should just call the 1BB and where you should just fold every single time
Cool stuff, what rake structure was this solved for?
Do your solves find that rake structure impacts the preflop GTO ranges? My current understanding is that the difference is negligeable, but when the rake is higher you should play slightly tighter, for example the button calls less hands
We did a bunch of testing leading up to this big solve and the rake effects were pretty negligible (especially since at $2/$5 live the rake is usually capped at 1-1.5bb). So we ran this solve with no rake to remove one additional layer of complexity
Is it possible to show how a solver actually “solves” a scenario? or extensively explain how it does it? Thanks
That could be a fun video - good idea!
I noticed that (for example) K5s is a slight open UTG, no open in MP, and then some more in the LJ. This looks to me like maybe you were sampling and for hands that are on the cusp of folding you go flaky answers. Can you confirm that sampling was going on and did or at least could have caused these kinds of aberations.
I don't know off the top of my head and would need to consult our gametree expert
I was wondering why it has a small % open for k8s, k6s, and k5s, but not k7s? Weird to me, because the potential, however rare, for K7s to give you a double gutter would, I think, make it better than these others.
I think the reason why these charts are so tight compared to other preflop ranges is because it is set to a 4bb open which is very large, can you solve it for 3bb open? I feel that it is not profitable to fold small pairs and most of suited connetors from late positions.
Our 6max solves are for smaller open sizes, but we chose 4bb for the live-specific solve because that's more common in those games.
Does this apply to recreational players? They just seem to call if they feel it, they don't know about anything about GTO. They base theirs decisions in relation to cards that they are holding not ranges or anything. Thanks
Honest question: How does everyone just seem to "try out" a new range? For me it would take so long to even just memorise one, couldn't even imagine randomly switching around… Any tips on how to remember the charts for a beginner like me? (there are so many, even depending on which position you're sitting)
The ranges in late position are really surprising and counterintuitive - I know I for sure would be playing most suited connectors from the button and all pocket pairs, or at least prioritize them over hands like K8o or T7s. Is the reasoning behind the solver's range that (given perfect play) suited connectors aren't as profitable? In more practical terms, as players get better (playing more optimally), suited connectors become less profitable on average? Does it have to do with implied odds being lower against better players post-flop, hence why K8o might play better than 65s? Or is the solver basing its decision primarily around defending against the pre-flop 3-bet/4-bet with a sufficiently strong and balanced range?
As James pointed out, it's a restricted analysis. Every added variable (the kinds that we encounter with human play) balloons the game tree making it computationally expensive. The output is idealized per a very limited/specific backdrop. It's dubious trying to cherry pick insight from such a study. Or any solver output really.
It's because of the huge open raise size. When raising to that size solvers tend to favour a more polarized range. Mainly because BB is getting a bad price and will have a higher 3b to call ratio.
@@qwertz12345654321 especially nowadays with raises being lower than in previous years.i. 2.5 times the bb
These are for live though - nobody is opening the button for $12.50 at $2/$5 =)
It has a lot to do with the larger OR size in the gametree (like Tony pointed out). Though in general the solver tends to prefer higher cards > smaller SC hands fwiw
Do you have any videos with live games that have a 5X BB for UTG & Button Straddles?
Many of those things happen in my VLOG: www.splitsuit.com/1-2-live-cash-poker-vlog
I'd be happy to purchase the full content in the app, but I'm not interested in a subscription.
Please let me know when an outright purchase option becomes available.
Thank you ❤
Here you go! redchippoker.com/checkout/?rid=pagJb2
How do the ranges change for SB and BB when a button straddle is played ?
We recently ran complete straddle solves and will be adding them to app shortly =)
did this solve account for bunching?
Hi James...the ranges you are showing here are actually a bit tighter than the Red Chip GTO mobile app...which is also showing them as Exploitative...so am a bit confused here...am a Red Chip subscriber...so are they different ranges???
Yup, the Exploitative and the rGTO ranges are different.
Not sure why A4 is more betable than A2.
What's the big difference? If you pair a 4 it isn't much help. The odds of getting a straight would be the same either way
You've got to be set mining with all pairs in lower stake live cash.
Are these raked ranges? I play in time-rake structure which intuition tells me my ranges should be wider considering im being raked whether im in or out of a pot but no money is being raked from each pot I play
The live GTO ranges are built with 0% rake in the gametree fwiw
The small blind opening raises are very interesting, i tend to only open with really strong ranges from this spot. Is opening wider in this spot a smart thing to do? I will give it a go in my next session.
There is only one player left between you and picking up the blinds uncontested - so very normal to have a wide open-raising range from the SB =)
Why can’t we at least have some kind of a +ev open raising range guide for the big blind when other positions have limped in (considering it will be out of position post flop) vs being in position when the small blind has limped? Sure, the top of range hands are no brainer’s, but for the less intuitive combos)? ie: “All combos check their option, but these combos will show a profit over the long run when raised from the big blind)” type thing.
Also, I’ve noticed a lot of high stakes players having discussions recently about having a limping strategy that has +ev connotations (mostly in tournaments) so my question is this…
For all hands outside of the bottom distribution of the RFI opening ranges for each position, can any of them be put into a limping range (either behind 2 or more limpers, or button vs blinds seeing they will have a positional advantage post flop and a pocket pair like 5’s should be ahead of a random distribution in the blinds) and is there any merit to an open limping strategy (designed to limp/call) vs earlier positions such as the blinds?
Like in situations such as set mining with direct or even implied odds vs opens on the small side when calling closes the action, etc?
Are these ideas too unconventional to explore, or should I just robotically do what I’m told and let others do the experimenting trailblazing of new concepts on poker theory for me? (Sounds sarcastic but I’m being serious)
The gametree gets much simpler when there is no open-limping allowed (or maybe just allow open-limping from the SB if it folds around). Allowing for open-limping is a worthwhile exploration (and something that's on our exploration roadmap), but it explodes the gametree and will take a VERY long time (and more powerful server) to compute. Of course, the exploration would then give isolation ranges, but that's assuming the solver makes much use of open-limping (and limping-behind) in the first place =)
It’s funny that it wants all the small pairs folded, I was just telling a friend that I see players on stream lose very consistently with those hands.
Are these for cash mainly or also tourneys?
These specific ranges are for cash, but there are MTT ranges within the app too!
The ranges don't factor in limiters though, how people of certain ages limp strong cards and raising with say K9os in the worst position won't get you ahead in a game with humans. Not to mention that the solver didn't include rake. Where's the net benefit of raising crap hands in the small blind to win, say, $6 after rake at a 2/5 game.
A node locked comprehensive solve like this would be far too specific to be super useful. As for rake, have you done any preflop solve comparison for 0bb/hand rake vs 1bb/hand rake and its impact on the actual ranges?
Are the ranges taking consideration post-flop or just pre-flop?
Postflop is part of the gametree as well, yup
He did mention the reason some hand are included is because the solver will play perfectly post flop no matter the situation.
If I have K9s on the Button with 5 limpers, should I even raise, knowing that at least 4 will call? OR should I raise more than 4bb? K9s against 4 limpers or even 3 will not hold up. Am I wrong there?
4bb is way too small over a slew of limpers. I would suggest watching this video next! th-cam.com/video/UwXZcLHs1Y8/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@@ThePokerBank thank you!
You're very welcome
Does this also work for 6max table?
Good morning, Harry. There are 6max ranges (both exploitative and simplified GTO) in the app too!
Which hands does the Solver use when it’s on tilt? I usually play a 100% range then
Seems suboptimal =)
Why would anyone use this when gtowizard already exists with more accurate preflop solutions that are completely free (not just rfi) where postflop is less simplified and an arbitrary amount of callers is allowed. Only plus for your app is that it solves for 4 BB which isn't something you want to do anyway. Let your table open to 4BB all they want but open to 2-3 yourself
How can their preflop solution be 'more accurate' when an UTG can only be called by the BTN/SB/BB, and no other position? That alone tells you they are making massive preflop simplifications, which is understandable, but by no means makes their solve better.
And totally fair re: 4BB. The upside of that inclusion is that it gives you even better call vs. RFI and 3bet ranges.
You definitely don’t want to limit your RFI to 2-3bb when the rest of the table is up to 15bb. The table will essentially treat your 3bb as a limp. They will take zero notice of you being the preflop raiser and no notice of position.
Which means you’d be better off limping into pots. For example, a 1/2 game with a $6 RFI would have most of the table call and then play almost identical to a $2/5 game with a limped pot.
You’ll want to find a raise size for the situation that cuts the field down to ~3-4 or less players seeing the flop. Or when the entire table sees the flop for $25, you win a pot big enough to make up and then some for the times you raise $25 pre and then check/fold the flop.
RFI for 3x BB in a 1/2 and at some 2/5 games is virtually lighting money on fire.
If you were able to tell a solver that in a certain scenario such as a loose passive table, a 3-4bb RFI resulted in 5+ players seeing the flop, it wouldn’t keep telling you to RFI for 3bb.
It would treat your 100bb as a short stack in which you’d be very tight preflop, create a ~1-2 SPR, and be shoving most benign flops.
Once you’ve done that a few times and now 3-500bb deep, then you play a normal strategy but still RFI in the 10-30bb area.
1/2 and 2/5 loose passive tables are essentially short stack 5/10 tables. And you’ll need to play that way until the table is deeper (in capped games. None capped, same RFI bb size, but wider range and different post flop play).
Why are they so incredibly tight? I would expect to open even wider when we get raised less?
What does a solver assume about all players at all inflection points going forward in a hand?
Does this work for online play?
There are 6-max online ranges in this app too, yup. This video explains things well: th-cam.com/video/gd3Mlvi0aKw/w-d-xo.html
Do these ranges account for live rake?
The rake was set at 0 for the live GTO solve. In our testing, the rake had negligible impact on most preflop ranges. Plus, the stakes where GTO ranges work best would be the same stakes where rake isn't a massive impact (compared to, say, live $1/$2).
Only issue I’m seeing is solver is playing against solver. The people u play against arent perfect, so playing so tight like no raising suited connectors on button means you’re never getting paid at your table because ur a huge nit in the players eye
But it’s GTO ranges, not exploitative.
And this is why we also include Exploitative ranges in the app 😁
He addresses this issue more than once in the video.
ranges ARE your players not the cards, 2-7is a range against a nit
So when this says for live poker why would it be different than online?
Open-raising sizes tend to differ, which impacts the ranges quite a bit
@@ThePokerBank do you think it's harder to be profitable online opposed to live?
@@jonathanspincken5657 overall, yes
100bb tables are kinda rare mostly bad places to play
I think these ranges are incredible for questioning your own play... you don't play as wide or as loose as this suggests? WHY? What could that mean in terms of a deficit in your play? How could you improve you play which would allow you to include, or exclude certain hands from your range?
We all don't play these perfect ranges BECAUSE we either gamble too much or lack the ability to fold or any reason that 100% means we have a fault in our play. Find that reason and we'll improve
It could be due to a deficit, or it could be due to a correct exploit. I know which way people will self-assign that rationale =)
ABC poker to the fullest extent- easiest way to get killed in a live game…Phil Ivey says just go on all in if in doubt
Can I use this in real time?
Please do not.
Of course someone had to do this.
You cheater
This seems very exploitable against good opponents. Even in the CO you rarely connect with 7 high or worse flops and your capped to OP's and Ahighs. Not even playing 98s in CO and still not playing 55 to a decent frequency. I'd rather play 98s 87s 76s than Q8s J8s K6s, because they are more playable hands and are defendable vs re-steals when the resteal range isn't too tight.
Won't the blind want to chop 100% of the time. Unless they have aces?
Some players do that, sure
Why would you think so? The Big blind loses EV by agreeing to chops
0
What does GTO mean lol
Go Tilt Opponents. Because everyone hates GTO nit's.
Gran Turismo Omologato. It's for touring cars that are made for competitive racing.
Grand Theft Otto. It’s like GTA, but Scandinavian.
These are online ranges 😂 unless you’re playing 10-20+… But your demographic of viewers are not playing higher than 2/5… Understanding the heuristics behind why the solver provides said output is 1000x more valuable than trying to memorize ranges, especially ones that are too tight… what you claim as an opening range for live poker are actually iso ranges given the frequency and ranges played by limpers.
These ranges are way too tight IMO.
First
Last
Ranges (especially button) is too tight. Especially live , where most players are TERRIBLE!!!.
I’ll use this once I start not caring about having board coverage… rubbish charts
Is it more important to have board coverage, or have the perception of board coverage?
@@ThePokerBank touché..
@@liranbenmoyal2105 gotta showdown hands with board coverage to have the perception
@@26bisket Touchewah….
Sorry to put a wet blanket on your concept, but you poker nerds really do a poor job of bringing the rest of your audience along. OK. You created a neat pocket tool for folks. If I am correct, I think you are assuming that they do not know how to play poker or can't memorize the right hand to open pre-flop. OK, so if we use that logic, then why all the acronyms in the app? Why use lango that new or learning people may not be familiar with everywhere in the app like cryptic slang terms and navigation titles?
Also, why assume in your GTO section that all will fold to the opening bet. Call me crazy, but I almost never see that at cash games. Bare minimum, most EVERYONE at a table limps in no matter how loudly the pros shout that they shouldn't. Unless I open at 20 or 30 times the BB, those same limpers magically turn into determined hard core sheriff level calling stations who wont fold anything even with all in 4 bets. So with that, does the math or GTO calcs change that drastically if you have an 8 person table full of really fishy fish like 4 calling stations or limpers, 1 maniac or whale and 3 woefully inexperienced LAGs who would not even fold their laundry if their life depended on it? All of which, work together to blindly initially limp in with any two cards only to have the maniac all in every other odd hand and the LAGs filling in every other even hand with over betting.
You did admit that your tool assumes perfect play. I think that makes it imperfect if you have not accounted for the very type of players most of the pro's tell us we would look for in an ideal game. (A table fully of really fishy limpers, maniacs, inexperienced LAGs and calling stations with a seemingly endless bankroll they use to continuously fund their ALL IN short stack play)
So now we will have people cheating with phones during live poker! Great job...
I have no problem with people looking a hand up after the hand. But during a hand, phone is on the armrest upside down. I would have no issue.
I can see this helping people become better. Those who actually used it after every hand. However, deviation is the rule.
Like blackjack learn to play perfect THEN adjust to the game (deviate from optimal based on observation).
People have been using phone apps at the table for years. This will make no difference in that respect.
Nobody should be using their phone during a hand in the first place. If they are, call the floor over
@@ThePokerBank Oh yeah, for sure. I was just pointing out that this software won't suddenly encourage a raft of cheaters. People that want to do that have plenty of resources already.
Agreed
The conception behind these sims is massively flawed. You should never pick an open raise size for a solver but rather allow it to choose among several. Further, you could node lock for typical game conditions and get exploit open ranges. Opening 4x is a massive mistake almost always. When calling ranges are inelastic and rake is high you want to open smaller not larger. Like most products currently on the market, these are totally worthless.
All preflop solves are abstractions given the required constraints. Yes, in an ideal world we would give the solver room to solve across all possible raise sizes vs all possible re-raise sizes at all possible stack depth configurations - but that's not possible at the moment.
As for 4x, while it's less ideal as an RFI size to actually use, it's a size used by a large swath of the live player pool and as such gives you excellent value when exploring the call vs. RFI, 3-bet, and squeeze ranges.
@@ThePokerBank "In an ideal world" ...No. In the actual world, such sims have already been completed for both preflop and postflop. At equilibrium, the rfi range is split between 3 different sizes at various frequencies. All your simplifications introduce systematic error into the process and thus the outputs can not be trusted with any level of certainty.
At pure equilibrium, ALL sizes are available at all inflection points. Anything else is an abstraction with varying levels of simplification and usefulness.
@@ThePokerBank This is disingenuous at best. I've purposefully not mentioned where the sims I'm discussing can be purchased and/or freely accessed out of respect and a hatred for shilling. All sims are by definition abstractions but the extent to which we can fly close to the sun occurs only when offering multiple sizes. At which point the range is split according to the highest EV lines with a small % remaining indifferent (but this is in all likelihood a synonym for errors caused by technical deficiencies which haven't been fully integrated). To choose to simplify when you could just as easily choose not too only happens because of laziness, cheapness, indifference, or ignorance. Christ, your sim uses a 4x open as its default...its difficult to imagine a worse disaster. Artificially inflating the pot often OOP, often MW, in a 10%ish rake environment which is sometimes uncapped, in a pool with an inelastic flatting range; 2x or open limping is massively higher EV in such scenarios. Opening only has value to the extent you can take initiative, thin the field, and gain information. None of these goals can be accomplished 9/10 by opening 4x in a live game. All this is easy to continue but there's enough evidence here already to indicate that you have long since bypassed the sun for the dark side of the moon.
Protip: if your sim suggests you fold pocket nines UTG you've massively screwed it up lol...it's incomprehensible that this even needs to be said.
Please let me know when your next solve is complete. I'd love to see it, seriously!