The Art of (Anti-)War
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2015
- Every war movie has an opinion on war that they're trying to get you to believe in. So how does each movie make its argument? Is it against war or for it? Let's explore a war movies' persuasion techniques and just how effective they are on you.
/ nowyouseeit
But seriously, I knew a guy who said he wanted to join the military after watching Full Metal Jacket.
All I could think was "...Did we watch the same movie?"
Perris Avallon you would be surprised how many military guys love that move and I think it is because we see it as more of a dark comedy.
Joseph Houghton That's fair. It's funny how people can have wildly different interpretations of the same movie.
Perris Avallon That's the mark of a good movie, the fact that people can see it two ways.
Everyone has different point of views.
Aye Full Metal Jacket and Jarhead seemed to be constantly on in the Rec Room
I just can imagine how terrifying it would be for the train spectators to watch the beach landing scenes.
that is a cool new film *beach scene starts* I take that back
Theater would be empty in two minutes.
Especially as it would be a premonition for them
Those same spectators could very well have fought on that beach if not their sons or grandsons
I was thinking the same thing
The Soviet film Come and See is the pinnacle of the "Anti-War" genre.
It continues to resonate with me no matter how many times I watch it.
Absolutely
...in soviet russia war antis you
+Inkshooter I have yet to see it, my father and mother told me that their school brought them as students to go see the movie and it was basically a long tedious show about how brave the soviet soldiers are and that everybody should go join the glorious army, brainwashing material. Never heard more about it. I'm grown up now, I guess I'll find time to go and see for myself. (pun intended)
That's... a very wrong interpretation. The movie clearly shows that being in the partisans was MISERABLE.
+Inkshooter There is something compelling about being miserable for the right cause. You only really make it anti-war if it's all for nothing
I just want to point out that Spielberg is the only one I've seen do the sniper pov cam correctly. if you're like 300 yards away or aiming at a moving target, your crosshairs are never going to be directly on your target. This always bothered the shit out of me
+Aldo Raine Wow never knew thanks for the information but wpuld the sniper crosshairs be below or above the target?
+brainman67 it varies with each situation but for the most part it's usually slightly above since the bullet drops
Aldo Raine Oh tyeah that makes sense thank you
+Aladeen Madafaka I understand what you're saying. Some scopes have it to where you zero in and your target is in your crosshair and some have smaller crosshairs that aren't in the middle of the scope. but zeroing in takes time and that sniper battle portrayed in American sniper is all sorts of wrong. Saving private Ryan had it right with the aim high shooting because zeroing in wasn't a thing in the 40s. you just had a rifle, scope and an estimate
+Aldo Raine I thought you adjusted the scope to account for the distance and wind and stuff like that
Saving Private Ryan was a fucking masterpiece. The scene where the American soldier is stabbed in the watchtower is the single most powerful moment I have ever experienced in a film. Where any other director would granted him victory, or played up the drama of his death against unconquerable odds, Spielberg teases us with the confidence of the character as he believes he will survive, only to tear it away and reduce him to begging for his life.
+ImperialGoldfish Eh, I thought Saving Private Ryan had plenty of war heroism and I would not define it as anti-war? It shows the sacrifice those soldiers we follow went through as moving and worthy of recognition.
Until you see that he is stabbing a sheet of green canvas.
For a movie with that kind of money they could have figured out something better.
I agree. I believe its to represent thehalicaust, while middle america(upham) sits crying and wringing its hands on comftable street.
He really does. Its chisled out above his head on wooden post. Written in french.
Rue de comfortable.
Watch that bit. Its there.
Amazing isnt it.
Theres loads more symbolism but itd take all night.
Really, I think the best way you can make an anti-war film is by depicting the horrors of Vietnam. While WW2 was a horrible war, it had a purpose that in the end changed history in a good way. Vietnam had no purpose, no goal, no change. We went in for no reason other than to stop communism from spreading in a country that couldn't care less about us, and came out disappointed and confused. Portraying that confusion and disappointment is what should be used in an anti-war film.
+arminenreviews Yeah it is the perfect example. Politics fought the war while men pointlessly lost their lives, and on top of that, the men that did survive were negatively impacted long-term.
COYS Mate05 Football Exactly, it was one of the biggest mistakes in human history, if not the biggest, and people who fought it lost more than they gained.
+degree7 Platoon for me didn't hit any notes about the atrocity of the war. Honestly it felt too staged, too Hollywood. The drama and ideologies were pretty forced upon the audience and it hit a lot of established dramatic notes as well.
I personally believe that the best Vietnam movie was Full Metal Jacket. It was half comedy, half realism. I mean for the most part it was pretty freakin' hilarious but when bullets started to fly it got very real. From reading a lot of books on the subject and talking to Vets those two extremes were constant throughout their entire tour. One moment they could be making dick jokes and then the next crying over the body of a friend. War is sudden and hard hitting in the most unfair unpredictable way. I think that Kubrick's movie captured that the best.
***** Wait a minute, what? I agree with the destruction of Europe (although WW1 had a much more negative effect on Europe's environment due to the trenches and weaponry), but where are you getting the information that this Islamic invasion (I think you mean extremist invasion) was a cause of WW2? If anything the Iraq invasion led to an increase in extremist attacks. You can't just throw out information without giving proper explanation.
Also, when I claimed that WW2 had a good outcome, I meant that fascism was essentially destroyed in Europe. The period of time leading up to WW2 saw a significant growth in fascist governments in Europe, most notably in Italy and Germany. I guess you could throw Russia into that, but I see Russia as being an Asian country more than a European one. While the Allies weren't perfect, they certainly stopped the spread of fascism with the exception of Russia. That's what I call a good outcome, though the price of the war was not so great.
+Luke Paulwalker We probably wouldn't have renewable energy and the landing on the moon would have probably happened even later than it did. The myth of german technological superiority in WW 2 is just a myth.
The only reason fascism got destroyed was that they attacked too many countries (Poland, France, Russia mainly). They were simply too aggressive...and that's what happens when youre too aggressive you anger a lot of people and make enemies everywhere.
If they would have won the world would be different...but probably not better.
The difference between saving private Ryan's D-day and American sniper is that in the D-day scene we never see the source of fire it always seems to sprout from the mud, that perpetuates chaos because you feel trapped and powerless with no idea how to stay alive however in American sniper we see clear camera shots on potential enemies from afar, the viewer is less threatened, and we are faced not with primal survival but slow consideration on who should be killed, how to do it and the greater good, it is the same detached political perspective you might get from a newspaper rather than the hellish in-the-mud experience
Spielberg can say every film is anti-war, but his Saving Private Ryan (along with Band of Brothers and The Pacific) is LOVED by people who are pro-war.
+Thiago Monteiro I've always wondered about that. Is it because our cultural narrative sees the second world war as an unambiguously righteous endeavour? Does that frame the horror of what is being shown as valour instead?
I think it goes beyond that. For example: Apocalypse Now is supposed to be anti-war, and the Ride of the Valkyries scene is supposed to show how war is horrible and unfair. Still, that scene is PRAISED by pro-war people. And the Vietnam War isn't perceived as righteous in general.
I think people are just very selective viewers; both pro-war and anti-war people. They see the movies as they want to see them.
Mainstream movies need to be first and foremost enjoyeable to watch. And war-films do this with epic set-piece battle scenes like the landing on Omaha in SPR, Hue in FMJ, the final battle in Platoon and Valykiries in Apoc. No matter how you look at it, they are glorifying war in these scenes, its a spectacle that draws in people. I think the best anti-war film needs to abandon such set-pieces, they need to focus away from the spectacle and solely on the suffering, ideally focus not on the troops but on the civilians. A Danish film, Once There Was a War is in my opinion very close to that ideal. Or the book The Notebook by Agota Kristof.
+Thiago Monteiro It scared the crap out of me. Seriously, during the D-day beach scene I grabbed the seat ahead of me and was sliding off my seat to get lower to take cover.
+Thiago Monteiro I think Saving Private Ryan is undoubtedly anti war. Regardless if pro war people are too oblivious to notice.
I saw Saving Private Ryan in the theater at age 12, and Black Hawk Down at 16(one year after 9/11(watched 2nd plane live at school)). I joined the army at 17. Tried to enlist straight into the rangers, but I had high blood pressure, so I went into the infantry. Two years later I was in flight school and became a Blackhawk pilot. Got out in 2014. I am now suffering with depression & PTSD. These movies were extremely influential to me.
I was wondering why Paths of Glory (1957) wasn't mentioned. Kubrick said that Full Metal Jacket is a war film, whereas Paths of Glory is an anti-war film. I totally recommend watching it if you haven't already; the film is a timeless classic still relevant to this day.
Yes full metal jacket is a war film.
War movies are usually one-sided. Every war propaganda starts with dehumanizing the enemy.
Cro Ger not always, sometimes the film makers try to be as neutral as possible. But those films don't get enough attention because they don't have enough violence
*****
You are right, in the end most film studios want to make money, they even have to, since many war movies that feature epic battles are expensive, and to tell a compelling story you have to focus on a few characters. But a lot of "anti-war"-movies are just action movies with a darker tone. That's one of the reasons why I love Inglorious Basterds, because it's almost like a parody of war movies. Unfortunately the full version of "pride of the nation" was not included in the theatrical version, because it would have made the message clearer. In the end, most of these movies are just about action, violence, tragedy and heros. The label "anti-war" is very often merely a justification
Trust me. Dehumanizing an enemy is not one-sided. Doesn't matter if it's in film or real life, dehumanizing is natural to war.
Well, both sides are inhuman while at war, i mean the germans irl didnt cry at D-Day, while mowing down hundreds of other humans.
+Zipotricks why are you so sure? I am sure some of german soldiers were certainly shocked from all the twisted shit going on, especially newbies.
One very powerful and effective anti-war film done entirely in animation is Grave of the Fireflies. I think that one is so effective because it's shown from the perspective of civilians who are orphaned by an attack on their town so it shows the plight of the innocents and how war can negatively affect them. It's pretty much impossible not to cry while watching it, but it's a very good film.
American Sniper is just like the propaganda sniper film within the film Inglorious Basterds
Brilliant
+KriscoartProductions I think it's pretty clear the American Sniper is propaganda.
+KriscoartProductions I never saw it that way. I don't agree with Chris Kyle at the end of the day, while I still respect the man he was. I just saw the movie as his perspective rather than trying to influence our own opinions on war. But that's just how I see it.
Wow, you're right!
+KriscoartProductions
It actually has themes, I think the film would be better if it wasn't based on the story of such a terrible person.
The Deer Hunter and Apocalypse Now are good examples of anti-war films to me. It's just that WWI/II films aren't often given the same treatment as Vietnam ones.
Deer hunter fkn sucks
I'm really surprised Apocalypse Now was not mentioned at all.
Perhaps the greatest anti war film(s) of all time is Masaki Kobayashi's The Human Condition trilogy. 9 hours of pure agony, showing the horrors of war from every conceivable perspective. The immediate horror the soldiers face before, during and after battle, the grueling training they undergo, the suffering of the POWs, the countless civilians who suffer during the war, and even the families of the soldiers back home. It's a must-watch for any true lover of cinema.
I went back for this one, and this means I've officially watched all your videos over the past couple of months! Keep up the amazing work, between you and Nerdwriter + Every Frame A Painting, I feel like I'm in film school! Love every minute.
The war movie that hits you like a freight train is Come and see. The best anti war film ever, probably because the protagonists aren't soldiers, that really helps to show the truly horror of war. And it did the "show real footage thing at the end" thing before the animated movie of the video xD
Personally I think Born On The Fourth Of July is one of the most anti-war films I've ever seen. There is absolutely no glory or necessity there.
all quiet on the western front is probably the most anti war film that is still realistic
This was a really interesting topic and you made some great points. Can't wait to see what you do next.
Absolutely great analysis! Looking forward to more of it. Please continue posting more videos.
On an episode of QI, Stephen Fry claimed that enlistment in the military always increases after the release of major war movies, even when the war is portrayed negatively. True or not, maybe that was what the "there is no such thing as an antiwar movie" quote means.
Its glamorous, like you say.
"There is no such thing as an anti-war film, because all war looks fun."
From my perspective, you make an anti-war film by highlighting the losing side
In my perspective, an anti-war film highlights that there is no winning side. Both sides (or more, if involved) are the losing sides.
"As long as we think that a war can be won, we will have war among us."
Your videos are brilliant. They're organized similar to a college-level synthesis essay and you prove your thesis extremely well. I love how you referred back to your introduction for the concluding statement as well. Subscribed.
thank you for giving "walz with bashir" a shout out. it is such a great and underrated movie!
Its interesting that Saving Private Ryan is anti-war when no one is willing to argue that WWII was unnecessary. On the other side of the coin, American Sniper is pro-war, yet there are very valid claims that that war is unnecessary. And both movies are absolutely correct
wow, never thought of it like that
You could argue that every single war that's ever happened in the existence of mankind is unnecessary, but human nature proves that sometimes, war is completely necessary. That's why most are unwilling to argue that WWII was unnecessary, since it was inevitable with a power hungry tyrannical and mentally disabled dictator in charge of one of the worlds major powers.
simplemanrobertson *Hitler's armies were invading the Soviet Union with no declaration of war just like their dirty Axis pals, Japan, did with Pearl Harbor. Stalin was defending his home country.* Stalin was a paranoid freak in the beginning but opened up bit by bit to his generals' advice, while Hitler was crumbling down to madness towards the end of the war. Probably because his trusted doctor, Theodor Morell, kept giving him "medicinal shots" full of E. coli, Meth, Amphetamine, Cocaine, and vitamins. So frequent was his injections, he recorded one day the syringe's needle for Hitler, warped (Syringes weren't discarded as one-use tools until in the 50s), and Goering contemptuously joked Morrell was the Chancellor of Needles of the 3rd Reich.
Man, when you mentioned Waltz with Bashir I wasn't totally sure where you were going, but then you talked about the cut to the footage of Sabra and Shatila and it came back to me from watching the movie some 6 years ago.
That was some powerful editing.
This channel is fantastic. I'm surprised you don't get more views. Please keep up the good work!
I feel like Dunkirk is an AMAZING look at war. It only shows the protagonists struggling to survive, rather than showing the enemy against them. It has this suspense that I have never felt in any other movie before, and it was one of the few movies where, despite being absolutely terrified for the characters in the film, I wanted to see what happened next.
I also first saw it in films with this guy who served in the Iraqi war, and we actually stepped out early because it reminded him too much of his past experiences, sooo
Is it bad that the most anti-war film I've ever seen is Inglourious Basterds? And I've watched most of the films on this list. I don't think most people get Inglourious Basterds, and how much irony it actually conveyed in "glorifying" the subject matter. Most anti-war films have their message be something along the lines that war turns everyone into victims. Inglourious Basterds's message is that war turns everyone into monsters. I don't think either statement is untrue. God knows war regularly makes people do monstrous things, and they people always second-guess their actions afterwards either. Some even have relished it.
I mean, the poor Jewish girl whose family was murdered by nazis is turned into a monster as her ghostly image, after she had already died, was shown through the smoke of a burning theater laughing as the nazi party was massacred. And it literally compared its own audience members to the nazis who were enjoying watching a propaganda film depicting violence. Not even critics really understood this movie when it first came out. Yes, it glorified its violence, but it solved the problem that is talked in this video, about anti-war films nevertheless glorifying war in some way, by doing so with purposeful exaggeration and irony while making a subtle statement of how monstrous that makes both its characters and us, its audience, for enjoying it. It's by far Tarantino's most thought provoking and thematically complex films and it is sad that critics then and now still think of it as a fluff piece that is just meant to be stylish and fun depiction of a fictional exaggerated WW2. By thinking that's all it is and enjoying the film as such, Tarantino has the last laugh, because that's exactly what the film is relishing pointing out and criticizing; that audience members are quick to enjoy violence and dismiss its consequences while they are sitting comfortable in a theater seat.
I think that you're overthinking it. If you look at Tarantino's other movies, he never has some deep anti-war or anti-violence message. And listen to what he says in interviews when people criticize the violence. If he was trying to be ironic, he would have said that by now. Instead he talks about violence as a form of empowerment. And if violence is empowerment, it means that he believes that the costs of violence are worth it. Which means that he is pro-violence and pro-war.
Where have you read him saying that? Every interview I've read of his talking about violence he says it's terrible in the real world, but he makes movies, and movies are just movies. But I think the idea of him and other people being fascinated by violence in movies is very interesting to him, and he has repeatedly played around with it, taking in audience reactions as context in what happens in his films, especially his latest films, and especially Inglourious Basterds. there is nothing whatsoever he has ever said that I've read in which he said violence is good and empowering and worth it in the real world. It's also noticeable that Tarantino tends to get pissed off when interviewers ask him about violence in his films as if it has connotation to real world violence. Okay, saying that Inglourious Basterds is some how an "anti violence" film is probably stretching it, but it DOES play around with the medium, it does turn it around, it does poke fun at the audience for the idea that violence is entertaining. I'm sure he doesn't find it wrong that violence is entertaining, but he seemed entirely willing to point out the irony of it.
Watch "The Train"(1964). Its a great war film.
@@lederp42 Dude.. you're making a massive generalisation. Just because Tarantino says that he likes to play the audience isn't evidence that EVERY theory of him playing the audience is true. You have a poor grasp of logic. That's like saying "Fred said he likes eating grapes. Therefore, he ate all the grapes"
@@lederp42 You're a dumb ass. The grape analogy is not supposed to "work". I am showing you an example that is similar to your style of logic, so that you can understand how rediculous your own logic is.
One very good anti-war film i remember is ''Pretty Village Pretty Flame'' (Lepa sela lepo gore). It's a Serbian movie about the Bosnian war. It starts off with most of the characters being masculine, but when the real war hits them, most of them break down. It's really great as it shows what war puts people through and the moral difficulties of understanding what happened. Spoilers ahead if any of you plan to watch it, two best friends who are fighting on seperate sides and believe that the other one has wronged the other (burned his workplace and killed his mother), is actually false. None of them did it,it was someone else,which is what really hits them as they became worst enemies for nothing.
I really enjoy your videos, I've learned a lot and film is starting to carry more meaning for me. Thanks for you content.
man ur videos are so entertaining but smart at the same time, youve made me appreciate movies in a whole new way
Good job dood! Love your vids! Keep em coming!!
I went to see Dunkirk in IMAX recently, and I must say the sound design was fantastic. It not only conveyed the sounds right, but also with the perfect volume that made me heavily uncomfortable. I haven't experienced war personally, but when dive bombers were attacking the beach and you could hear their infamous screech, at the peak of their dive they were so loud that I could no longer perceive the effect as sound, but as noise; the peak reached the threshold of pain and I truly felt fear. The same with most gunshots; they were extremely loud in comparison to the background and it made them that much more overwhelming. There were only 2-3 dive bomber scenes in the film, but after the first one I dreaded when I heard them approaching and that is fantastic sound design. It may not be new or inventive, but the rerecording team pushed the soundtrack to its limits and it made for a real memorable experience.
this channel is probably the best underrated channel i've ever found. Glad this was in my recommendations
Great video about a very intersting topic that can easily heat up conversation. I fully agree that by showing the chaotic and violent nature of warfare without any sanitization is a key to a good anti-war because the shocking effect of it can be convincing enough for the average viewer to understand the price of war.
Another great film that escapes the Truffaut theory is Das Boot. Quite possibly the most harrowing and claustrophobic film about submarine combat.
One of the best gut wrenching anti war movies is Byelorussian movie "Come and see", first movie(for me) that actually portrayed true horrors of war via moving picture...WATCH IT!
this was a great analysis ! great job
The best anti war movie ever is Come and See. Look it up on TH-cam but it's Russian so turn on subtitles
Looks interesting, i will watch it soon. The Front Line (2011)(Go-ji-jeon) is also god anti war movie, though its not really famous, i think it deserves more reputation, it is really amazing, one of the best i have seen.
Stern Ritter I'll look into it, is it on TH-cam?
Im not sure, i downloaded it from some torrent site.
This is torrent i downloaded.
(The.Front.Line.2011.Bluray.1080p.5.1CH.x264-SmallAndHD)
Stern Ritter ok thanks for the virus
Virus ? I downloaded this many times, i hope you had some antivirus to tell you if its virus, though i never had a problem with downloading this movie, nor my friends.
Grave of the Fireflies.
oh god, ive only seen clips of that movie and you just reminded me of it and i got punched in the feels
Ehh it was ok.
Too much japan.
Too much America.
***** Yeah, Ted 2 is so much better, eh?
Dude, you have theeeeee best channel. Bravo. Love these.
is nobody mentioning how someone from Machinima just commented on some other video?
Don't fall for it, Now You See It.
And you are the wurst.
Don't you guys see that it has the "Official Mark" on the side of its name?
Machinima watches and comments on other TH-cam channels? Huh interesting, I'd expect this 6 years ago on a gaming channel, but not here on a film channel
Great video! Keep up the good work.
What made the ending to waltz with bashir so powerful was not that it showed real footage, but that it showed real footage of an event the protagonist described. A dead girl under a pile of rubble.
I hated American Sniper. The trailer suggested that the movie would speak of the tough choices and often unnecessary deaths of war but that clearly wasn't even close. Chris Kyle (the actual sniper) was an absolute asshole. People need to read his book, I'm sick of seeing so many Americans praising him after seeing the movie. He was good at killing and he enjoyed it, that's all. He preferred the adrenaline of killing people to time with his family.
I'd expect nothing less from such a die-hard Republican but still, not one of Eastwood's best. The worst, in my opinion. (too bad, because I like Bradley Cooper).
I couldn't get through the book. A few chapters in and I had to put it down because I was tired of the "all people in the middle east are evil and from the devil and we're angels coming to cleanse them with our bullets."
EDIT: You can't blame Eastwood though. He's making a movie based on a book. It's not like he can change the entire theme of the book (at least, not with a backlash)
Then he should have taken the backlash.
I would have.
Titouan let me point out your over-generalization of strong republicans. Now try and not generalize me and be aware of yourself doing it unconsciously, if you notice it.
seth chizmar I associate "die-hard republicans" with the people they vote for, and the people they vote for are all idiots. I did in fact generalise, but it's a fact that the people who supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were (and are) predominantly Republican. Same goes for gay rights, gun laws... etc. But yes, it's only a generalisation. However, I don't see how you can be against these wars, pro-gay marriage, pro-sensible gun laws and still vote for republicans. That was my point. Also, this was aimed mostly at Clint Eastwood and the character represented in the movie, not your average day to day american republican.
Nikola Tesla
Edgy.
If you want an anti war mini series I suggest Gallipoli (2015). It really is the closest thing to anti war that I can vouch for. It makes you love and hate people on both sides , hate the war, and it highlights the useless waste of life for no real gain in the end. It does help that the campaign itself wasn't successful so it literally was a waste but even the character deaths in the show are wastes and rarely noble. 10/10 I highly recommend it. It is free on Prime Video btw.
Cool, that you are doing different stuff as well!
Keep up the good work buddy!
Great video, I'll definitly check out your channel a bit more in the future.
I think the German Stalingrad may well be the best war film ever made, perfectly portraying the horrors and costs of it
"Johnny Got His Gun" is probably the most emotionally effective anti-war film.
God even just reading the synopsis of that movie makes me nauseous. I've never seen it or read the book it's based on, I wouldn't be able to handle it.
@@yaboicolleen It's very depressing and disturbing, but a very good, underappreciated movie. It works as much on a philosophical level as it does an anti-war film.
One Anti-War movies I highly recommend "Johnny Got His Gun" it might not count because it doesn't show war, but it does show the price of war. It does this by showing us how joining the war caused Johnny to lose literally everything but his memory, he can't see, can't hear, can't talk, has no arms, has no legs, all he can do is somewhat move his head, feel some things, and listen to his own thoughts and memories, it's an amazing and very emotional movie, not sure if it still is but it was free on TH-cam, hopefully it wasn't taken down I'll look tomorrow.
I think that the issue is that war, while not glamorous, is a grand spectacle and no matter how violent, it's exciting to watch.
I would argue that Come And See is the best war movie ever made
Agreed. I find it jarring how people discuss anti-war films without mentioning it.
*anti war
Waltz with Bashir is the one movie where I don't think there's a single scene that makes you think "war is awesome". Each scene is either "war is literal hell" or "war is absurd and stupid". Apocalypse Now is the only other movie I think comes close (but not quite).
+Headrock You should watch The Messenger, starring Woody Harrelson and Ben Foster.
BrutalFuJay
Noted. However the 7.2 rating on IMDB isn't encouraging.
+Headrock No War movie I have ever seen made me think War is awesome or necessary..
+Headrock No movie ever portrays war as fun or 'awesome'. Why would they?
Possibly necessary and heroic, sure. But not awesome.
+Headrock Apocalypse Now is a bizarre and frankly awful movie. I don't want a stylized depiction of some douchebag director's impression of a war.
so glad you mentioned waltz with Bashir. Such a phenomenal film
thank you , I love your videos
paths of glory is a much better anti war film than full metal jacket
If anyone has seen Hacksaw Ridge and knows their shit, I was wondering whether or not it would be classified as an anti war film or pro war. As the movie is filled with brutal realistic violence it also has its moments of glamorization. just wondering
TheVeggieLord even soldiers themselves say that war does have its spectacular moments. Read band of brothers.
Yeah thought so, just some scenes seemed a bit over the top, like the scene where he dragged the sergeant, but i guess thats just hollywood
Spliff Splitting Wrist Slitter
Gibson certainly included a number of 'moments' in the film that he delivers in his other films, and yes he likes to linger on the brutality of things to the point of it almost becoming "torture porn." Overall, still an anti-war film.
In my analysis, Hacksaw Ridge is an excellent example of what I would call a contemporary pro war film. The scenes of brutal violence nod towards the grim realities of war (necessary in a post-Vietnam world), while the main character embodies a long tradition of young men who find glory and self-actualization on the battlefield. In the structure of the story the obstacle that the protagonist must overcome is "being in the military w/o a firearm" and he does so (and can only do so) through extraordinary military service. In the world of Hacksaw Ridge, war is not only a place of exceptional violence, but also a place where boys can become men, and an average person can become a hero. To use the definitions put forth by Now You See It in this video, the benefits of war outweigh the costs.
Letters from Iwo Jima/Flags of Our Fathers did something that I haven't seen anywhere else, it was a very respectable project.
The ending of Waltz with Bashir hit me like a freight train . . .
Saving Private Ryan is absolutely, 100%, a PRO-war movie. I really can't understand how people think it's anti-war simply because it's "realistic" or because it "graphically depicts the horrors of war." The problem with SPR is that despite showing war's horrors with a sense of realism it still ultimately concludes that the soldiers are ultra-brave and willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, that they were doing the right thing, that we owe soldiers a debt of gratitude, that the war was worth it for the greater good, and basically that America is awesome. Because the film ultimately concludes these things, the depiction of realistic violence actually serves to bolster a pro-war agenda. "Despite all THIS, we did the right thing, it was worth the sacrifice, and you all should be thankful." That's the very definition of pro-war.
Saving Private Ryan hit this desensitized filmgoer like a freight train. Great analysis. Fun Fact: Steven Spielberg directed François Truffaut in Close Encounters
+solidsnake58 Truffaut directed the favorite Spielberg movie: the 400 blows ;)
I'm surprised that Spielberg made this. He doesn't usually make movies this dark
Spielberg doesn't make dark films? Have you seen Jaws? The kid, the dog and the girl all get eaten in the first half hour! ::spoilers::
+solidsnake58 Jaws was violent I guess you could say. But it wasn't really that dark. The violence wasn't shown to much. Mainly just the aftermath. With the exception of quints death. It wasn't that bad. It managed to get a certificate 12 where I am
+Ell612 Maybe Shindler's list or Munich ?
Oh and this a great video essay !!!
Barefoot Gen is one of the most powerful anti-war films I've ever seen. Similar to Waltz with Bashir, it's an animated film but rather than shock the viewer by showing real shots of the aftermath of war, it does things that you can't ever imagine seeing in animated films (at least in western animated films like Disney). That contrast is the shock and I think makes the film all the more powerful for it.
Hacksaw Ridge sure as hell made me want to stay the hell away from war
The death of Han Solo definitely hit everyone like a fucking freight train!
Last Man Films nope it was predictable as fuck
To me, to this day Saving Private Ryan is the most shocking war movie ever made. Where in other movies you usually see some squad members die one by one, the opening scene of SPR just shows dozens of guys getting slaughtered without a chance. To the viewer, these are all nameless guys, literal cannon fodder. This shit still makes me cry.
Why do people always forget about "The thin red line"? It is more of a philosophical war movie but i have never seen a movie like that which contrasts war and nature so well.
I'd love to see an updated analysis of this with hacksaw ridge
Stanley - good idea👍
don't know much about anti-war movies, but the animations like Graveyard of the fireflies definitely comes to mind. and I'm sure a True ANTI film is Requiem for a dream, definitely not pro drug abuse.
Well done. After watching this I'd recommend reading Roger Ebert's review of "Paths of Glory" (1957) in which he mentions the Truffaut quote.
I think Truffaut's right. The only way to make an anti-war film is to not show it. The horror and allure of war may be too inseparable to attempt to show just one or the other. "Paths of Glory" seems to end with the simple statement that war exists, and it's hell.
Violence has always been somewhat fascinating to humanity. Because of that every war movie, even schindlers list can provoce (subconscious) fascination with the most gruesome scenes. A war Film utilizes this fascination to make war seem glorious whereas most anti war films use it to make the viewer reflect on hisself
2:41 in that scene, just because he says the words doesn't mean he believes it himself; the body language tells a different story.
+David Downey I wonder if that's a Freudian slip in acting, or if he was directed to do that.
The real Chris Kyle was very much proud of what he did. You can see it in the book.
Personally I think it's kind of disgusting, but meh.
I was working at a movie theatre when American Sniper came out and happened to get a chance to talk to an older man who said he actually knew Chris Kyle... or something. The real person who the story is based on.
He said "oh, *_he loved killing Arabs_*."
That he would have them all die. Innocent or guilty. Man, woman, or child. A true psychopathic racist.
And that makes sense. I don't know if you've actually seen another human at the end of your M16's sights - I sure haven't - but from what I'm told, it's pretty hard to pull the trigger. So much so that only 10% of the population is actually capable of killing. Most *_purposefully miss_*.
Maybe the guy I talked to was full of shit, and you might want to look that statistic up, but either way I side with Now You See It on this.
+Vaysm
That gentleman is right and wrong. When you just observe the violence that happens in those areas non-stop, violence that has been going on pretty much since the beginning of mankind, it can be pretty easy to start despising the whole race. Of course when you see the innocent people suffering, the hate dissipates.
But I'd imagine being forced to shoot a child, like Chris was, would only serve to deepen the hate.
What...? I don't despise anyone.
Truffaut is pronounced like troo-foh but it's a small thing haha i dont wanna sound like a dick or anything. Great video again!
+Inez Inezz Huuuum no... I don't know how to explain it since your "u" is different, but yeah i didn't even understand he was talking about Truffaut at first ^^
Can't believe there is no Apocalypse Now on this video. Yet the greatest film ever in cinema history.
I think that the best example for an anti-war film is "Come and See", nothing shows you the horror of war more than that and it certainly gives the ''hit a by the train'' feeling to be at times !
"François Tray-foo"? Nice one! Truffaut sounds more like "Trü-foe".
Correction to statement "Very anti war Kubrick film" Stanley Kubrick wanted to make a film about "War." emphasis on the period. When asked what he meant he said "I already made an anti war film, now I want to make a war film" he was referring to "Paths of Glory" when he said he'd already made an Anti War film. Any feelings a particular viewer attaches to the film "Full Metal Jacket" are feelings were not necessarily made intentional by Kubrick. It was his aim to just film "War".
Perhaps both Spielberg and Trufo are correct and the better answer to the question of "is this a pro or anti war film?" is "I dunno, how did it move you?" as in there's a sliding scale that isn't really measurable, but rather perceived person to person. You can make a film that's really terrible looking and makes you hate war and some will think "Damn that looks terrible, that's why we gotta go out and get those bastards" or you can make a film that makes things look glorious and worth fighting for and someone will say "Damn those posh militants, this is a great satire of those war hawk bastards", just an example, but food for thought.
If you are talking about movies that hit you like a train: The hurt locker. Not a standard war movie but it showed the troubles the soldiers go through, how in war (almost) nothing is black or white everything is grey. Eventhough it does not even have a very direct story line it is very emotional and devastating.
Great essay.
Starship Troopers is by far the best anti-war film ever to be disguised as a pro-war film. That movie takes the clichés found in many propaganda and ramps them to ridiculous, exaggerated heights.
+Zedfinite
I used to hate that film, but I watched it again recently and I must say it is not as bad as I thought it was.
I believe the most anti-war film ever made is Come And See
A good piece of art doesn't try to get you to believe anything, a good piece of art essentially holds a mirror to society and lets you make your own mind up.
Hey man loving ur channel, please credit the movies that are there in your videos in the description.
I still think American Sniper is an anti-war film by the simply fact that the spectator emphasize with Chris Kyle and understand his simple and wrong convictions. That's why the movie talks also about his stupide father's education.
Probably the most anti-war film I've ever seen is "Fury." Even when WWII is portrayed in a patriotic light in movies like Saving Private Ryan, Fury has the tone of "We're here to kill them, and they're here to kill us. Nothing more."
"Best job I've ever had". No, Sir. In no way Fury is an anti-war movie.
The most powerful anti-war scene in any war-themed movie must be that supermarket scene in The Hurt Locker. After 2 hours of showing how clever, brave and manly the protagonist is in any life-or-death situation, we see him struggle and fail picking the correct cereal (I think it was cereal) for his kids. You can see how this mundane task completely throws him off, thus revealing the effects of war in a brilliant way. He can always pick the right wire of a bomb but he fails to pick a cereal.
love your vids, binging on them, but your pronunciation of Truffaut was pretty funny, it's closer to "True-foe". ^^
You know, I really love your videos, but I think they would really gain from being a tiny bit longer to better explain and develop your subject. Your videos are so good I'm always a bit let down at the end, thinking "Oh, it's already finished ? Isn't there so much more to say about this ?"
American Sniper was no pro-war movie, neither was it an anti-war movie. It was no war movie at all. From beginning to the end, it felt like a western about a cowboy, that became a legend like Wyatt Earp or Billy the Kid. Especially the end reminded me a lot of the Bratt Pitt Jesse James movie adaptation.
+SnoopysOtherBird It was more of a story about somebody who happens to be a Sniper, really.
+George Daugherty More like a simple American jerk-off. The hype was unreal about such a standard movie, so it happened cause of some kind of "patriotism". Altho granted the movie had no idea itself what it was about and went at it from multiple angles.
UchihaDualStorm Of course, it's subjective, but I highly disagree about that movie. I thought it was an excellent film that was a character study of man fighting his own inner demons. Great film.
SolusBatty I feel like no one really knew what to do with the movie
@@cillwrelia1191 I generally liked the book better than the movie. And that is after I watched the movie first.
Saving Private Ryan and Apocalypse Now are two films that I see as incredibly anti-war because it shows the deaths of people as not noble sacrifices but as frivolous casualties which makes me feel that war is pointless but on the other sometimes even films that try to make an anti-war statement make war and violence seem awesome and pump you up, it's a real fine line between making war look awful to making it look like an awesome spectacle.
Saving Private Ryan is absolutely not an anti-war movie. It clearly shows the honor and glory of fighting a war for the "right" reasons. Sacrifices for a good cause.
Thanks for this.
The problem with most pro and anti war films is both our protagonists and antagonists are soldiers. This reinforces the narratives that make war possible. That we have enemies, that war is a solution to conflict. Any film whose protagonists or antagonists are legitimized to the degree that their motives need to be understood is a film that pulls its audience into pro-war sentiment.
The true anti-war film is not actually a film depicting a war. It's a film depicting both the brutal downsides of war and the solutions avaliable that war ignored. Swing Kids is a true anti-war film: our protagonists and antagonists are both Germans, and all of them expect there to be peaceful outcomes to their narratives. Our characters never go to the front lines, and therefore we can see the wider world effected by war and the stupidity of the armed conflict.
+Nathan Ware Come and See would fall under this category as well.
Just like Grave of the Fireflies, the most poignant anti war film I have ever watched with Apocalypse Now not really being fully anti war, but exploring descent into madness, set in Vietnam
Do you really think that Saving Private Ryan, as a whole, is an anti-war film? I think its war mythologizing, and ultimately glamorizes combat and warriors in its final act.
But all the hero achieved was bring one young man home.
I get jealous every time I watch one of your videos. Damn you're good.
The movie that made me feel the strangest regarding this topic has to be Talvisota, telling the story of the Winter War from the Finns' perspective.
All the pointless death and destruction, the heroism of a small force fighting a war they cannot hope to win. The brutality on those soldiers psyche, having to fight off tanks, artillery and aircraft with almost no equipment of their own.
No Paths of Glory? No Story of GI Joe? No All Quiet on the Western Front? No Battle of Algiers? Some depth would be nice
+MarcBrewer I know, I waited for him to metion paths of glory and he didnt :(
Algiers is not an anti war film. It's a film about a war.
+ShadowindLUKE No message, no theme, just "about "a war?!!?
Or Apocalypse Now
the best movie anti-war is jhonny got his gun
robert daniel Yes,definitely, how did I forget about that one. And it's even more than that, A philosophical examination of what constitutes human existence. Definitely the greatest anti war film ever.
I was looking for this comment. Thanks.
robert daniel Great book thought. And it's an actual exploration of Eutanasia too..
I should've scrolled down just left a comment recommending it, I love Johnny Got His Gun, one of my favorite movies of all time, it's amazing and emotional, I wouldn't have found it if not for the music video for 'One' by Metallica.
robert daniel commie garbage
Goddamn I love this channel
Kudos for speaking about Waltz With Bashir, an underrated gem. I think Platoon, The Thin Red Line, Born on the Fourth of July, Apocalypse Now, The Ascent, Come and See, should have been mentioned. Also, I think the question should start with, "what makes a war film?" Taxi Driver, Coming Home, The Messenger, would qualify.
I think in this matter interactive art (like videogames) have a better chance of making a true anti-war experience, by involving the expectator and making him take part and do stuff withing the scenario you have the ability to make him feel like shit for the atrocities he has committed. sad most of these are over the top pro-war pieces instead, anti-war is really hard to find and the best example of this is a game called "spec ops: the line". and the anti-war message really comes until the end of the game.
+PemaMendez ペマ Spec-Ops: The Line is what you are looking for. While it does seem like a generic third person shooter at first, if you take the time to listen into the conversations your enemies have you realize that they have lives that matter. Plus, when you used your Phosphorous gas bombs on various groups of enemies at one point in the game, you are forced to walk through the aftermath as what was once your enemy is now pathetically crawling around trying to survive before eventually dying. It's probably the best I've seen in anti-war games.
arminenreviews
indeed, and the final line when he gets asked "how did you survived" and he responds "who said I did.." really got me. hell of a game. so underrated, wish there were more like it.