That is the massacre I am talking about. Killed everyone but the little children who would forget what happened. Then took them and raised them as their own children. I wonder how many children, after a few generations found out UT the truth and got away from the church and the families who were in on these evil murders.
@Daniel Barth the information I had was from a book from the ward library. The words told of them taking the children and raising them as part of their families. If the children were returned to family members, then why did they not believe the children's stories of what really happened. Surely they remembered what really took place.
It never ceases to amaze me just how many wars battles and riots etc are started over religious beliefs. Throughout history most were started by the church
" ... you must realise that church and there is Church, but mostly it consists of people, people are differend than religion religion is the 'contract' between God & people, if people make mistakes will God will punish them too, we peo[ple should not consider that as 'a top one/1 hunderd request', the Church are the leaders .... there is also a personal religious attitude ... "
Just as many hospitals, clinics, missions, schools and universities were started by religions. It doesn’t make war & murder right, it just makes them part of our fallen world.
This was a tragic and horrible event caused by religious fanaticism and greed on the part of Brigham Young. The Saints had been in Utah but 10 years and were having a hard go of it. Young’s coffers were running low. He saw the wealth of this wagon train of Methodists families when it came through Salt Lake. Forty wagons, 900 longhorn cattle, 250 stock horses, a fine race horse valued at $10,000, four finely carved carriages, $100,000 in gold and silver, and other belongings. This was the wealthiest wagon train to enter Utah territory and Young saw an opportunity to make himself rich. The families were directed to Mountain Meadows as it was a respite stop of the trail with a big meadow, lots of trees, streams running through it, and grazing grasses for the herd of cattle. But it was also surrounded by hills that made targeting the wagon train families much easier. A siege between Mormon church leaders and the wagon train families began and lasted five days. Without water and food and several of their leaders already shot or killed, the families decided to surrender to the Mormon militia after surrendering their weapons in order to get water and food promised by the Mormons. Men and women were matched separated into the meadow and were shot point blank. Infants had their heads bashed against wheels. Many had their throats cut. The murdered were 120 laid out across the meadow. Thirty eight victims were children. 17 children age 6 and under were allowed to survive as they could grow into servitude roles for Mormon families. The bodies of the dead were stripped of their clothing which was tithed to the Mormon church, blood soaked and all. The bodies were not buried by their Mormon killers. Young ended up with the gold from the wagon train. The cattle were branded with the Mormon church brand, an upside down cross. Young built a fine home for his favorite wife and himself and gave her a finely carved carriage with a stag’s head on it and fine jewels from the murdered women. Did he tell her where they came from? The Mormon murderers took wagon loads of goods and John D Lee took one of the fine carriages and gold. Young finished building the temple in Salt Lake City using the gold from the murdered families. Young became wealthy from this vicious crime and bears the brunt of responsibility for the murders. He was no Saint. Only John D Lee was prosecuted and shot by firing squad at Mountain Meadows. The rest of the murderers went on with their lives. The U.S. cavalry came through many months later to a horrific site of the skeletons at the meadow and buried them and erected a huge cross at the site to honor the dead. Young had the cross torn down. “Vengeance is mine, and I have taken a little.” There is no way the murders would have happened without Young’s approval. He had a strong hold of all his church leaders, even choosing their wives for them. The Mormon church owns the murder site today and has never acknowledged its full responsibility for the murders. They tried to blame the Indians and covered up the murders for many years. But history has a way of revealing the truth. This horrific event forever mars the Mormon faith. It should be a deal breaker for every Mormon with a conscience.
That was why I quit the church after around 40 years. After reading about the Mormons being murderers. I also was told that if I didn't marry here on earth, I would be given to a man beyond the veil. I said like hell I will!!! I don't believe this, that a girl is told that her lot in life is to marry and have as many children as possible. One girl who wanted to go to medical school was told to find a man and get married. She obeyed her parents and got married after getting her diploma from byu. There are many more reasons.
The Church of Latter Day Saints ( arrogance noted) aka Mormon, was the greatest fraud perpetrated on the American people. Example, the Book of Mormon.. plagiarized from an upstate New Your Methodist preacher. Then the was the White Salamander affair and others. Continual revelations by the "president" just before the US Army entered Utah, or the day before a court trial. Pre Utah, the Mormons were on the move, busted for violation of State and Federal finance laws. There's a lot more. Do the research. The biggest fraud was Bring Em All Young.. a certified con and pervert. The Mormons brain washed my wife of 9 years. We parted company. Ruined my life. She was married 5 more times, all to Mormons. Every one abused her and my 2 kids. I finally got custody of them in the late 80s. My ex is now in remote central UTAH gathering up arms and supplies for the end of the world. My assessment of this organization is that it is a cult , a massive business venture hiding behind religion founded with a fictitious story. Golden tablets, couple rocks to translate .. 2800 words per minute according to Cowdry... Book later found in the jungle of So Mexico by an American military pilot who crashed his plane.. Incredible. And you think Scientology is a fraud.. they don't hold a candle against this group. Have you ever been to Colorado City. I met Jeffs (sp) there in the early 80s.. what a piece of work he was. Check out the White Salamander affair. Another black mark and an exposé as to their real character.
@@idahosixgun5601 Hardly. Your ignorance shows exactly how it happened. Mormons not respecting others. They could have welcomed the immigrants and helped them make their way. But they deliberately chose not to do that. And history will forever know that these Mormons were monsters. Led by an evil Brigham Young. History will never forget. The Church forever outed for this crime. They worship the butcher who did this. Explain that.
@@natalieharoldsen3494 The sworn testimony at the trial of the one man who was executed for his involvement (the testimony being likely the most trustworthy source) was that the natives were involved (not just dressed up Mormons), and ... well, it's a long disgusting story, feel free to look it up. It's public record. I'm not going to delve into other topics, but, almost every account disagrees on major details. So, stating that we know more that just a few things for fact is laughable. This video states it all as if it were well documented fact. Neither side of the court case agreed with this video though.
@@RobertAtwater eww your use of the word “laughable” in any connection with this topic feels a bit insensitive and gross. I feel like in Elder Eyrings address years ago at Mount Meadows he admitted that it was members of the church at fault not the natives. I’m thankful for his expression of “profound regret” for the members actions. It isn’t a full apology but it is the closest to one that the church leaders will ever admit to. I’m aware it’s not their job to issue apologies.
This is what your god has caused and much worse has happened because of Jesus and his followers i hope you're happy telling people about a god that lets his people do this to women and children
There are a lot of " Christians" who commit murder and rape everyday...just because someone goes to a church doesn't mean they are living the teachings...lots of folks who go to church commit crimes all the time
Since Bishop John Lee saw himself as a scapegoat, then it adds weight that Brigham Young gave the nod to such actions. The letter he wrote two days after the massacre was to falsely document in writing he had no hand in the matter.
Excellent! No one ever talks about this. Another Sept 11th attack. I did a ton of genealogy during lockdown and found out my Great Great Great grandfather used to travel around with Joseph Smith and baptized people all over NY. He was also baptized by Joseph Smith himself. I grew up in Utah so it shouldn’t be that surprising, but it was! The Mormon Massacre has always fascinated me.
wow i thought about trying the dna thing but i think im scared to find out because my fam already crazy to begin with lol but maybe one day i will try it
@@wildabeast1 I’m afraid of DNA tests because I’m pretty sure it would end with my brother in jail through familial DNA 😉 my favorite place to find family was find a grave and just following links, but make notes or you’ll get confused and forget shit. I had a bunch of ancestors named Peter Peterson, it was hard to follow 😂
I wouldn't put a lot of weight in this video. The timeline is off. The burial site was rebuilt and dedicated in 1999 not 07-08. My impression from the site is that the official acknowledgement and apology is from 1999 as well. Visiting the place is better than this video.
@@premiumg3789 I hesitate to bother, but I dare you to find two accounts of the Mountain Meadows Massacre that agree with this video. This guy looked up one source at best. But, the Mountain Meadows Massacre had a TON of conflicting testimony surrounding it. This guy states it all as if it were established fact... it's not. And neither side of the court case of the one person executed agreed with this video. Again... do your homework, Mr. "what part of I grew up in the middle of the Mormon religion did you not understand bro?"
LDS to this day still have not formally apologized for this massacre nor given compensation to any of the relatives of the victims. So Christian of them.
The woman was actually legally married to someone else, but he was abusive, so she ran off with Parley Pratt, and became one of his plural wives. Her husband ultimately hunted Parley Pratt down and killed him.
The most blood-chilling quote on silencing Mormons speaking out can be attributed to Brigham Young a short time before the Mountain Meadows Massacre trial in 1875 When the people of southern Utah, alarmed by the presence in their midst of federal investigators, wavered in the faith. Brigham himself jerked them into line in short order. “Do you know who those people were that were killed at the Mountain Meadows?” he demanded in a sermon delivered at Cedar City. “I will tell you who those people were. They were fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, cousins, and children of those who killed the Saints, and drove them from Missouri, and afterwards killed our Prophets in Carthage jail...And yet I am told that there are many of the brethren who are willing to inform upon and swear against the brethren who were engaged in that affair...I hope there is no such person here, under the sound of my voice. But if there is, I will tell you my opinion of you, and the facts so far as your fate is concerned. Unless you repent at once of that unholy intention, and keep the secret of all you know, you will die a dog’s death, and be damned and go to hell. I do not want to hear of any more treachery among my people.” From: HOLY MURDER The Story of Porter Rockwell By CHARLES KELLY and HOFFMAN BIRNEY
There can be no doubt that Brigham Young ordered the murders of the Fancher Baker wagon train of Methodist families because he ended up with their great wealth. This was the richest wagon train ever to traverse through the Utah Territory. Young himself would have seen the size of this wagon train and all their livestock when they came to Salt Lake City. The Mormon murderers ended up plundering the wagons, the thousand head of longhorn cattle end up branded with the Mormon brand, an upside down cross, which says everything about how they felt about Christianity. Read Sally Denton and Will Bagley’s books on this subject. Many documents within the church acknowledge the evils of this event wrought by Mormons who were ordered to kill women and children at this horrific event. Another book called The Other Slavery about Native Americans being enslaved by settlers included a chapter on the evils of Brigham Young enslaving Indians to work as household slaves for his 40 wives and to work his fields. A tragic affair all its own. Never ignore the evils of the Mormon faith. History tells the truth about them. Fawn Brodie’s book is also excellent about Joseph Smith.
Yeah well there were horrific things done to Mormons by other Americans and native people weren’t above doing awful things themselves. It seems that back then men were a bunch of brutes.
Lets face it, their leader Joseph Smith was a hustler, he invented his new religion to make money (no shame in wanting money) Later he also decided he wanted lots of women and invented some tale about men having lots of wives to get to heaven. Joseph Smith, the ultimate grifter.
I joined the LDS when I was in my 30's. When i heard about the massacre of the Arkansas wagontrain that was on their way to California, it broke my heart. These evil men murdered these innocent people and got away with it. All mormons that were involved in the bloody murder of these innocent people should have been rounded up and shot. After many years of being a member I told them to excommunicate me. Jesus never had a church and these people put His,JESUS, name on their church. I don't believe in religions as they were put in place to control people. The rich men in charge made the rules. Greed, power, and control over the people, killing those who would not follow their teachings. The catholic church murdered over one million people in northern France. Women have been murdered by the churches by MEN in Europe accusing them of being witches. This happened right here in Salem. Young girls, women, and men accused people of being witches for different reasons, one of wanting a mans property. The catholic church also murdered monks. Church of England? I have seen movies about these churches. The UNITED STATES of AMERICA murdered the indigenous tribes of Indians. The children were taken to boarding schools that cut their hair, made them take a "christian" name. Jesuits ran many schools in CANADA and the USA.Girls and boys were raped by those in charge. Children were beaten, some to their deaths. Just in the last few years have they found the graves of children that were killed and died here in the good old USA and CANADA. Nothing will ever be done about this. Columbus did bad things to people. Read and find out. Muslims are still forcing people to become Muslim or die. The people that are being killed are not allowed firearms to protect themselves and their families from these Muslim men that come to the villages and rape all the women and little girls and then kill everyone. It is going on now. The Jewish people were murdered too in many countries.
Understand, your prophet Brigham ordered the killing s. Then, covered it up. Read a book for christ sake! How can anyone possibly believe in that crazy mormon horse shit religion?
Many shall say they carried his name, but he will tell them to get away from him he doesn't know them. 2023, Mormons still ruling Utah. Built themselves a big palace. I know. I have extended family that are lds. I'm a born again believer and God removed my blinders about what is really what in this world.
My two uncels Jessie and Lorenzo Dunlap and their sixteen children were all killed, but three little ones. My Great Great Granfather was in Northern California since 1854, his two brothers were the Dunlap family, he change his name to Alfred Aaron Graves in 1869 in move two Hullville, Lake county California. He was from Arkansas but said in recoreders he was born in Alabama and Texas.
One can wonder around the area of Arizona, Utah, California, Nevada and many more areas around there and find that's how they handled things back then. Which is why they called it the Wild West. 2024 people won't understand.
The Arkansas immigrants were taking highly bred horses to establish the racing industry, as the gold rush was in full swing in California. When Arkansas immigrants were killed, those horses continued to produce top racing blood in Utah. Without registration papers, my father was not able to participate in the State Fair. He would make bets AFTER the fair that our horses were faster than state winners. The Prodigy of the Mountain Meadow Massacre, helped my dad win a lot of bets
This is an interesting story story and I thank you for sharing. In order to acquire these high price horses, your great whatever grandfather must have known Brigham Young. Senator Mike Lee’s great grandfather was John D. Lee. Do you know if your ancestor knew him?
You have a few fact wrong. And why are you saying the murders names, but never mention the names of the victims?! It was the Baker Fancher wagon train. Many of the children were returned to there families after the massacre.
Nice people these Mormons were huh ? Restitution should be given and if they can not or will not give it ...then someone needs to go and clean their clocks ...no sense in having these people breathing our good air ....Like # 9 ...Zulu
@@ReesieandLee But the dead have no legacy...survivors in limbo..fanatical ignorance without answer, the Momo church still omnipresent in Utah---no peace without justice.
The first hand account I’ve read said that it was both white men and natives working together. The natives weren’t blameless and neither were the Mormons. The difference is that now some people are claiming that native people had nothing to do with it and that simply isn’t true if the child’s testimony is to be believed.
Darn Injuns! Can't take their land and co-opt their warrior spirit without somehow finding fault with European faux-Christian dominion! Where's the justice?
This was an awful, awful thing that happened, and it cannot be excused. However, you can't really bleame the church itself for it. Yeah, those people were VERY bad. And yeah, Brigham Young definately should have done something about it. But to hold that over the heads of people in the modern time as a way to tell them their beliefs are wrong? Not okay. I've had people use this as an argument to tell me that I "know nothing of the lds church". IT WASN'T THE CHURCHES FAULT!!! It was the fault of the people who did it, who happened to be members. Do you know how many bad things Cathlics have done? Muslims? Jews? Literally any religion ever??? Being affiliated with a religion and doing things that go against the teachings of said religion shouldn't pin said things on said religion. My testimony is on Jesus Christ and the Book of Mormon, not the massacre.
I feel like Father's and husband's worried these men would take and marry their wives and daughters and possibly fueled some of their hatred of this group...but that's just my opinion 🤷
@@baileygregg6567 I grew up in an area where Joseph Smith was murdered in jail and to my knowledge they preserved the blood on the floor in the historical jail where it could still be viewed in recent years and possibly still is.Its a small tourist town called Nauvoo Illinois.I personally think they should have been allowed to pass through and keep moving.....
@@baileygregg6567 the people had money to pay for the supplies. Utah did not belong to the mormons but they claimed it all. These people did not know they needed a pass to travel thru Utah. I wonder if Brigham young really knew about this. The one man being accused of the slaughter while his church brothers turned their backs on him. Really good church members turning on one man and they all lied. One man could not have done that much killing by himself.
Your point? Certain granular, factual discrepancies? Actual substantial refutation of the fact that fanatics perpetrated mass murder? Please enlighten us.
THE FACTS: It was a military operation of the Iron County Militia, a regularly constituted military division of the State of Deseret. The Mormons had left the US when they came west into Utah, unincorporated Mexican territory. They set up their own government, printed money and declared themselves independent of the federal government. With the end of the Mexican War in 1848, western lands were ceded to the US as part of that treaty. In effect, the US government followed the Mormons out to Utah. When the feds tried to impose federal authority in Utah, the State of Deseret didn't take too kindly to it. The officers that had been sent to "govern" Utah were sent packing back to Washington. The Mormons had had enough of the "constitutional" treatment afforded them in Missouri and Illinois that ended in the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother. They were in no mood to be governed by the same people who had driven and killed them. As a result of the wild tales of rebellion, President Buchanan dispatched fully 1/3 of the US military to Utah to "quash the Mormon rebellion" in 1857. Brigham Young declared martial law in the territory and the Mormons were preparing for a military assault on their community. This was the climate into which the Fancher wagon train rolled. The Mormons wouldn't trade with them because they were preparing for war. They were frustrated and threatened to go into San Bernardino and bring the troops up the southern flank of the Mormons while the army units attacked from the north. I'm no military genius but you can't have a two-front war. The wagon train was unfortunately in the middle of a conflict they couldn't control and lost their lives. As a military matter, it worked perfectly. None of those people made it to the military outpost at San Bernardino. Innocents die in war all the time. War is hell. Tragedy but understandable. The winners of war usually get to write the history and so they call this encounter a "massacre". If Washington had lost the Revolutionary War, he would have been hung as a traitor and his skirmishes would have been called "massacres"...see how it works?
Complete hogwash as usual from a hateful lunatic like you. But since you admitted John Lee was your "hero " for smashing little babies into rocks while laughing and singing there is no end to he psychopathy you exhibit Mormon. There are reasons why Ted Bundy was a Mormon accepted by your church when he murdered all those women.
Hey another fact your casually leaving out why did John Smith get killed oh yeah dude was trying to run off with other men's wives lots of Mormons want to forget to mention that
@@adams9935 So you approve of the murders because you think he was a womanizer? Nice. A little view into your putrid heart. BTW...it's Joseph Smith you cretinous dullard.
Your FACTS are BS. My replies to your lunacy follow your ignorant comments: You - THE FACTS: It was a military operation of the Iron County Militia, a regularly constituted military division of the State of Deseret. Me - It was NOT a regular military operation, but I will get to that later…and the State of Deseret did not exist, except in the minds of Mormons. It was the Utah Territory, lawfully and constitutionally ceded by treaty between the United States and Mexico. You - The Mormons had left the US when they came west into Utah, unincorporated Mexican territory. They set up their own government, printed money and declared themselves independent of the federal government. Me - All of that is perhaps true, but only up until the territory became part of the United States. Because the territory belonged to the United States, all persons in the territory were subject to the laws of the United States and to the United States Constitution. You - With the end of the Mexican War in 1848, western lands were ceded to the US as part of that treaty. In effect, the US government followed the Mormons out to Utah. When the feds tried to impose federal authority in Utah, the State of Deseret didn't take too kindly to it. Me - Again, the State of Deseret was not an entity that had any authority that superseded the authority of the United States. In fact, Brigham Young himself was a United States official, having ACCEPTED the governorship of the territory from President Millard Filmore immediately after the territory was incorporated. He took office within five months. His acceptance and his oath of office to “support the Constitution of the United States..” were his personal concession that Utah belonged TO THE UNITED STATES, not to Mormons or the LDS church. You - The officers that had been sent to "govern" Utah were sent packing back to Washington. Me - What “officers”? When? You - The Mormons had had enough of the "constitutional" treatment afforded them in Missouri and Illinois that ended in the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother. They were in no mood to be governed by the same people who had driven and killed them. Me - What is your indication of that? The Mormon’s left Ohio when Smith was charged with bank fraud. They weren’t chased out. In Missouri, they left after confrontations with the STATE militia…not a US military force. They left Illinois because of ongoing conflict with anti-Mormon citizens and the state government. NOT the federal government. Ironically, when they DID reach Utah in 1847, Brigham Young and the Twelve Apostles climbed the peak just north of the city and raised the American flag, calling it the "Ensign of Liberty". Sure doesn’t sound like they were particularly upset about the federal government at that time, displaying the US flag as they did. You - As a result of the wild tales of rebellion, President Buchanan dispatched fully 1/3 of the US military to Utah to "quash the Mormon rebellion" in 1857. Me - That’s not entirely accurate. These were not innocents caught in a crossfire of war. They were massacre victims. When Buchanan received reports of widespread and systematic obstruction of federal officials in Utah (most notably judges), President Buchanan decided in early 1857 to install a non-Mormon governor. He was well within his authority to remove a territorial governor for ANY reason. He appointed a replacement and sent him the territory accompanied by 2,500 soldiers. When Young received word, he called out his militia to ambush the federal force using delaying tactics. During the defense of Utah, now called the Utah War, Young held the U.S. Army at bay for a winter by taking their cattle and burning supply wagons. This was 100% in violation of his oath of office. You - This was the climate into which the Fancher wagon train rolled. Me - This is true, but the entire situation was created by Brigham young. You - The wagon train was unfortunately in the middle of a conflict they couldn't control and lost their lives. As a military matter, it worked perfectly. None of those people made it to the military outpost at San Bernardino. Innocents die in war all the time. War is hell. Tragedy but understandable. The winners of war usually get to write the history and so they call this encounter a "massacre". If Washington had lost the Revolutionary War, he would have been hung as a traitor and his skirmishes would have been called "massacres"...see how it works? Me - This is a bit distorted. The survivors of the initial attacks on the wagon train were convinced by John John D. Lee and three or four others, including Isaac Haight and John Higbee to lay down their arms as a sign of good will to the Indians that they did not intend harm to them. The women and children were led out first, followed by the men. Each individual was accompanied by a Mormon participant in the attacks on the wagon train. According to some reports, it was Higbee who gave the order to execute the members of the wagon train who had agreed to walk out of their defenses. Two years after the massacre, Army Captain James Henry Carleton went to the Mountain Meadows site and investigated the area, interviewing witnesses who would talk, and surveying the area of the massacre. He found that only some of the bodies had been buried - and only in shallow graves where wolves were able to dig them up. Carleton’s men searched the entire area and found the remains of 120 men and women.(determined by how many pairs of shoulder blades he collected). Most of the skulls had bullet holes in them. In interviews with two Paiute Indian chiefs (one named Jackson, and the other, Touche) who participated in the attack on the wagon train, he discovered three things. First, BOTH told him that they were presented with letters from Brigham Young that the wagon train members were to be killed. Touche identified the man who brought him the letter - Mormon Oliver B. Huntington an Indian interpreter then living in Salt Lake City. In fact, As the Fancher party had camped 70 miles north of Mountain Meadows, Brigham Young met in Salt Lake City with southern Indian chiefs to devise a strategy to stop overland emigration through southern Utah. In the meeting, according to an entry in the diary of Dimick Huntington, Young's brother-in-law, Young encouraged the Indians to seize "all the cattle" on the "south route" to California. Second, he also learned from the Indians that their tribe possessed no more than three firearms during the time of the attack, which is proof positive that the executions were carried out by Mormons, and not Indians. Captain Carleton discovered that the cattle, horses, clothing, weapons, wagons, cash and other items belonging to the wagon train members had been dispersed among Mormons in the area. And not to the families of the deceased. Had the Indians massacred the wagon party, as the Mormon hierarchy initially claimed, HEY would have collected all of the people’s possessions, but this clearly did not happen. According to John D. Lee, Brigham Young’s scapegoat in the massacre, after he personally told young details of the massacre, Young told him, "I asked the Lord if it was all right for the deed to be done, to take away the vision of the deed from my mind, and the Lord did so, and I feel first rate. It is all right. The only fear I have is from traitors."
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What do you think of the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
That is the massacre I am talking about. Killed everyone but the little children who would forget what happened. Then took them and raised them as their own children. I wonder how many children, after a few generations found out UT the truth and got away from the church and the families who were in on these evil murders.
@@karenshannon3967 Actually the children were eventually rescued and returned to Arkansas. A good book on the massacre is by Sally Denton.
@Daniel Barth the information I had was from a book from the ward library. The words told of them taking the children and raising them as part of their families. If the children were returned to family members, then why did they not believe the children's stories of what really happened. Surely they remembered what really took place.
@@karenshannon3967 I suggest you research information other than from official Mormon sources.
@@karenshannon3967 the Arkansas family eventually got 18 babies back. They weren't raised in Utah
It never ceases to amaze me just how many wars battles and riots etc are started over religious beliefs. Throughout history most were started by the church
" ... you must realise that church and there is Church, but mostly it consists of people, people are differend than religion religion is the 'contract' between God & people, if people make mistakes will God will punish them too, we peo[ple should not consider that as 'a top one/1 hunderd request', the Church are the leaders .... there is also a personal religious attitude ... "
@@pietersiahaija4698 How much coffee and alcohol have you had to drink?
Your Word Salad is incomprehensible.
@@pietersiahaija4698 I nearly lost a braincell reading that jibberish
@@_hkbfinn as do we all when trying to interpret religious yammering lol
Just as many hospitals, clinics, missions, schools and universities were started by religions. It doesn’t make war & murder right, it just makes them part of our fallen world.
This was a tragic and horrible event caused by religious fanaticism and greed on the part of Brigham Young. The Saints had been in Utah but 10 years and were having a hard go of it. Young’s coffers were running low. He saw the wealth of this wagon train of Methodists families when it came through Salt Lake. Forty wagons, 900 longhorn cattle, 250 stock horses, a fine race horse valued at $10,000, four finely carved carriages, $100,000 in gold and silver, and other belongings. This was the wealthiest wagon train to enter Utah territory and Young saw an opportunity to make himself rich. The families were directed to Mountain Meadows as it was a respite stop of the trail with a big meadow, lots of trees, streams running through it, and grazing grasses for the herd of cattle. But it was also surrounded by hills that made targeting the wagon train families much easier. A siege between Mormon church leaders and the wagon train families began and lasted five days. Without water and food and several of their leaders already shot or killed, the families decided to surrender to the Mormon militia after surrendering their weapons in order to get water and food promised by the Mormons. Men and women were matched separated into the meadow and were shot point blank. Infants had their heads bashed against wheels. Many had their throats cut. The murdered were 120 laid out across the meadow. Thirty eight victims were children. 17 children age 6 and under were allowed to survive as they could grow into servitude roles for Mormon families. The bodies of the dead were stripped of their clothing which was tithed to the Mormon church, blood soaked and all. The bodies were not buried by their Mormon killers.
Young ended up with the gold from the wagon train. The cattle were branded with the Mormon church brand, an upside down cross. Young built a fine home for his favorite wife and himself and gave her a finely carved carriage with a stag’s head on it and fine jewels from the murdered women. Did he tell her where they came from? The Mormon murderers took wagon loads of goods and John D Lee took one of the fine carriages and gold. Young finished building the temple in Salt Lake City using the gold from the murdered families. Young became wealthy from this vicious crime and bears the brunt of responsibility for the murders. He was no Saint. Only John D Lee was prosecuted and shot by firing squad at Mountain Meadows. The rest of the murderers went on with their lives. The U.S. cavalry came through many months later to a horrific site of the skeletons at the meadow and buried them and erected a huge cross at the site to honor the dead. Young had the cross torn down. “Vengeance is mine, and I have taken a little.”
There is no way the murders would have happened without Young’s approval. He had a strong hold of all his church leaders, even choosing their wives for them. The Mormon church owns the murder site today and has never acknowledged its full responsibility for the murders. They tried to blame the Indians and covered up the murders for many years. But history has a way of revealing the truth. This horrific event forever mars the Mormon faith. It should be a deal breaker for every Mormon with a conscience.
Thank you for sharing this!
That was why I quit the church after around 40 years. After reading about the Mormons being murderers. I also was told that if I didn't marry here on earth, I would be given to a man beyond the veil. I said like hell I will!!! I don't believe this, that a girl is told that her lot in life is to marry and have as many children as possible. One girl who wanted to go to medical school was told to find a man and get married. She obeyed her parents and got married after getting her diploma from byu. There are many more reasons.
The Church of Latter Day Saints ( arrogance noted) aka Mormon, was the greatest fraud perpetrated on the American people.
Example, the Book of Mormon.. plagiarized from an upstate New Your Methodist preacher.
Then the was the White Salamander affair and others. Continual revelations by the "president" just before the US Army entered Utah, or the day before a court trial.
Pre Utah, the Mormons were on the move, busted for violation of State and Federal finance laws. There's a lot more. Do the research.
The biggest fraud was Bring Em All Young.. a certified con and pervert.
The Mormons brain washed my wife of 9 years. We parted company. Ruined my life. She was married 5 more times, all to Mormons. Every one abused her and my 2 kids.
I finally got custody of them in the late 80s. My ex is now in remote central UTAH gathering up arms and supplies for the end of the world.
My assessment of this organization is that it is a cult , a massive business venture hiding behind religion founded with a fictitious story.
Golden tablets, couple rocks to translate .. 2800 words per minute according to Cowdry... Book later found in the jungle of So Mexico by an American military
pilot who crashed his plane.. Incredible. And you think Scientology is a fraud.. they don't hold a candle against this group.
Have you ever been to Colorado City. I met Jeffs (sp) there in the early 80s.. what a piece of work he was.
Check out the White Salamander affair. Another black mark and an exposé as to their real character.
@@idahosixgun5601 Hardly. Your ignorance shows exactly how it happened. Mormons not respecting others. They could have welcomed the immigrants and helped them make their way. But they deliberately chose not to do that. And history will forever know that these Mormons were monsters. Led by an evil Brigham Young. History will never forget. The Church forever outed for this crime. They worship the butcher who did this. Explain that.
Sources?
I drove through the Mountain Meadows memorial area yesterday, although I’ve known about it forever I had to look up new info, this did a good job.
He's wrong on quite a few points
Which ones?
@@natalieharoldsen3494 The sworn testimony at the trial of the one man who was executed for his involvement (the testimony being likely the most trustworthy source) was that the natives were involved (not just dressed up Mormons), and ... well, it's a long disgusting story, feel free to look it up. It's public record. I'm not going to delve into other topics, but, almost every account disagrees on major details. So, stating that we know more that just a few things for fact is laughable. This video states it all as if it were well documented fact. Neither side of the court case agreed with this video though.
@@RobertAtwater eww your use of the word “laughable” in any connection with this topic feels a bit insensitive and gross. I feel like in Elder Eyrings address years ago at Mount Meadows he admitted that it was members of the church at fault not the natives. I’m thankful for his expression of “profound regret” for the members actions. It isn’t a full apology but it is the closest to one that the church leaders will ever admit to. I’m aware it’s not their job to issue apologies.
@@natalieharoldsen3494 ... my use of that word was in no way in connection with the event... I'm just at a loss for words on that one 🙄
I am a Christian and this is absolutely insane and has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.
This is what your god has caused and much worse has happened because of Jesus and his followers i hope you're happy telling people about a god that lets his people do this to women and children
Your religion sounds just as insane to people who aren't christian
There are a lot of " Christians" who commit murder and rape everyday...just because someone goes to a church doesn't mean they are living the teachings...lots of folks who go to church commit crimes all the time
The Crusades are more your thing
DAH!! I'm a Christian also perfect example why you never never ever give up your guns to anyone ...PERIOD!
Another feather in the cap of organized religion. Good work.
It's always the pricks, always the pricks.
Since Bishop John Lee saw himself as a scapegoat, then it adds weight that Brigham Young gave the nod to such actions. The letter he wrote two days after the massacre was to falsely document in writing he had no hand in the matter.
John Lee was talking about two stake presidents who planned the massacre
Excellent! No one ever talks about this. Another Sept 11th attack.
I did a ton of genealogy during lockdown and found out my Great Great Great grandfather used to travel around with Joseph Smith and baptized people all over NY. He was also baptized by Joseph Smith himself. I grew up in Utah so it shouldn’t be that surprising, but it was!
The Mormon Massacre has always fascinated me.
wow i thought about trying the dna thing but i think im scared to find out because my fam already crazy to begin with lol but maybe one day i will try it
@@wildabeast1 I’m afraid of DNA tests because I’m pretty sure it would end with my brother in jail through familial DNA 😉 my favorite place to find family was find a grave and just following links, but make notes or you’ll get confused and forget shit. I had a bunch of ancestors named Peter Peterson, it was hard to follow 😂
Sally Denton wrote a book called, The Colony. It goes into great depths
@@karinlarsen2608 I’m confused! What does a book about an incident in Mexico have to do with this?
I would be ashamed to admit what you did about your ancestry.
Thank you. It is more clear for me now...
I wouldn't put a lot of weight in this video. The timeline is off. The burial site was rebuilt and dedicated in 1999 not 07-08. My impression from the site is that the official acknowledgement and apology is from 1999 as well. Visiting the place is better than this video.
Perfect example why you never never ever give up your guns PERIOD!!
I grew up in Utah and this made me dislike the Mormon church even more
Do more homework before believing things at face value.
@@RobertAtwater what part of I grew up in the middle of the Mormon religion did you not understand bro?
@@premiumg3789 I hesitate to bother, but I dare you to find two accounts of the Mountain Meadows Massacre that agree with this video. This guy looked up one source at best. But, the Mountain Meadows Massacre had a TON of conflicting testimony surrounding it. This guy states it all as if it were established fact... it's not. And neither side of the court case of the one person executed agreed with this video. Again... do your homework, Mr. "what part of I grew up in the middle of the Mormon religion did you not understand bro?"
The Mormon religion is trash
@@RobertAtwater Are you actually Mormon? I have some golden plates for sale.
LDS to this day still have not formally apologized for this massacre nor given compensation to any of the relatives of the victims. So Christian of them.
Mormons aren't Christians it's a cult please don't put them with Christians
They’re not Christians so jokes on you.
They're not Christians
They're not Christian to being with
@@admiralaberex1127
I know.
1:00 "was murdered by the husband of one of his wives"
Pardon my language but What the fuck
The woman was actually legally married to someone else, but he was abusive, so she ran off with Parley Pratt, and became one of his plural wives. Her husband ultimately hunted Parley Pratt down and killed him.
@@zscamp1587 Can I see some evidence that her husband was "abusive"? Where did you learn that?
Thats what ya get for haven many wives
Yes, I caught that too! 😊
yeah, that took me a minute.
The most blood-chilling quote on silencing Mormons speaking out can be attributed to Brigham Young a short time before the Mountain Meadows Massacre trial in 1875 When the people of southern Utah, alarmed by the presence in their midst of federal investigators, wavered in the faith. Brigham himself jerked them into line in short order.
“Do you know who those people were that were killed at the Mountain Meadows?” he demanded in a sermon delivered at Cedar City. “I will tell you who those people were. They were fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, cousins, and children of those who killed the Saints, and drove them from Missouri, and afterwards killed our Prophets in Carthage jail...And yet I am told that there are many of the brethren who are willing to inform upon and swear against the brethren who were engaged in that affair...I hope there is no such person here, under the sound of my voice. But if there is, I will tell you my opinion of you, and the facts so far as your fate is concerned. Unless you repent at once of that unholy intention, and keep the secret of all you know, you will die a dog’s death, and be damned and go to hell. I do not want to hear of any more treachery among my people.”
From: HOLY MURDER The Story of Porter Rockwell By CHARLES KELLY and HOFFMAN BIRNEY
There can be no doubt that Brigham Young ordered the murders of the Fancher Baker wagon train of Methodist families because he ended up with their great wealth. This was the richest wagon train ever to traverse through the Utah Territory. Young himself would have seen the size of this wagon train and all their livestock when they came to Salt Lake City. The Mormon murderers ended up plundering the wagons, the thousand head of longhorn cattle end up branded with the Mormon brand, an upside down cross, which says everything about how they felt about Christianity. Read Sally Denton and Will Bagley’s books on this subject. Many documents within the church acknowledge the evils of this event wrought by Mormons who were ordered to kill women and children at this horrific event. Another book called The Other Slavery about Native Americans being enslaved by settlers included a chapter on the evils of Brigham Young enslaving Indians to work as household slaves for his 40 wives and to work his fields. A tragic affair all its own. Never ignore the evils of the Mormon faith. History tells the truth about them. Fawn Brodie’s book is also excellent about Joseph Smith.
He didn't know the difference between Missouri and Arkansas. The victims of the massacre had no clue of who Joseph Smith was
@@karinlarsen2608 Smith? Mo-mos?..yikes. Ignorant superstitious, gullible primates. Ihear you and well just wow.
Living in Utah as a non-morman this is just disgusting
You would probably get a lot out of Sally Denton's book, The Colony
Yeah well there were horrific things done to Mormons by other Americans and native people weren’t above doing awful things themselves. It seems that back then men were a bunch of brutes.
Well, you're gentile.
So leave
Lets face it, their leader Joseph Smith was a hustler, he invented his new religion to make money (no shame in wanting money)
Later he also decided he wanted lots of women and invented some tale about men having lots of wives to get to heaven. Joseph Smith, the ultimate grifter.
It is so hard to believe this comment (and Mormon bullshit, goes essentially ignored. Oh yeah, American exceptionalism...
You are dead right my friend ...
he was a CLASS-A con-man.
What a lovely story of violence, covered-up for so long.
I joined the LDS when I was in my 30's. When i heard about the massacre of the Arkansas wagontrain that was on their way to California, it broke my heart. These evil men murdered these innocent people and got away with it. All mormons that were involved in the bloody murder of these innocent people should have been rounded up and shot. After many years of being a member I told them to excommunicate me. Jesus never had a church and these people put His,JESUS, name on their church. I don't believe in religions as they were put in place to control people. The rich men in charge made the rules. Greed, power, and control over the people, killing those who would not follow their teachings. The catholic church murdered over one million people in northern France. Women have been murdered by the churches by MEN in Europe accusing them of being witches. This happened right here in Salem. Young girls, women, and men accused people of being witches for different reasons, one of wanting a mans property. The catholic church also murdered monks. Church of England? I have seen movies about these churches. The UNITED STATES of AMERICA murdered the indigenous tribes of Indians. The children were taken to boarding schools that cut their hair, made them take a "christian" name. Jesuits ran many schools in CANADA and the USA.Girls and boys were raped by those in charge. Children were beaten, some to their deaths. Just in the last few years have they found the graves of children that were killed and died here in the good old USA and CANADA. Nothing will ever be done about this. Columbus did bad things to people. Read and find out. Muslims are still forcing people to become Muslim or die. The people that are being killed are not allowed firearms to protect themselves and their families from these Muslim men that come to the villages and rape all the women and little girls and then kill everyone. It is going on now. The Jewish people were murdered too in many countries.
You are right, all religions are drowning in blood....
People need to believe whatever they want, and keep it to themselves....
Yes and natives did awful things to each other and to white people as well.
I also have learned about all the atrocities you mentioned. Hard to believe we can be made by God when we're so filled with evil.
Understand, your prophet Brigham ordered the killing s. Then, covered it up. Read a book for christ sake!
How can anyone possibly believe in that crazy mormon horse shit religion?
Many shall say they carried his name, but he will tell them to get away from him he doesn't know them. 2023, Mormons still ruling Utah. Built themselves a big palace. I know. I have extended family that are lds. I'm a born again believer and God removed my blinders about what is really what in this world.
Very good video - thankyou! Quick question: why refer to the Mormons as “latter day saints”? What’s the difference?
Latter Day Saints is just the actual term for members of the church. Mormons was never the correct name
They were called Mormons because the book they follow is called the Book of Mormon. They prefer to be called Latter Day Saints
The name of the "Mormon" church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Also, this video is wildly inaccurate. Parts are okay'ish
@@ThePeterComptonYet The prophets up until now were "Proud to be a 'Mormon.'"
@@yourhistorygal bless their hearts---how do they like being called poseurs, hypocrites, opportunists, murderers?
How quickly it became "their land" when, in fact, American Indians were still there, still fighting for their land.
I drive past there at least once a month, it moves me every single time. It's a real place, it really happened and it's an absolute shame.
Gotta love religion. Or else.
@@baileygregg6567
It is that way, but shouldn't be.
@@baileygregg6567
Why cant we all just along.
@@baileygregg6567 don't call evil civilized humans animals. That is disrespectful to animals.
"Give us your firearms, trust us, everything will be fine"
It's absolutely untrue to claim that "church historians were able to reveal the whole story". The cover-up is ongoing.
This sounds so familiar 🤔
My two uncels Jessie and Lorenzo Dunlap and their sixteen children were all killed, but three little ones. My Great Great Granfather was in Northern California since 1854, his two brothers were the Dunlap family, he change his name to Alfred Aaron Graves in 1869 in move two Hullville, Lake county California. He was from Arkansas but said in recoreders he was born in Alabama and Texas.
One can wonder around the area of Arizona, Utah, California, Nevada and many more areas around there and find that's how they handled things back then. Which is why they called it the Wild West. 2024 people won't understand.
BRIGHAM YOUNG WAS FULL REPONSIBLE FOR THIS HORRIBLE CRIME!!
Wish I'd known about this the last time I got doorknocked.
Yes, religion and politics divide the people while music and sport unite those same people.
the land of the free...
....masons . 💯
Indigenous land. Destroyed by everyone
Truth
home of the not-so-brave?
They disarmed them 1st and then attacked
The Arkansas immigrants were taking highly bred horses to establish the racing industry, as the gold rush was in full swing in California. When Arkansas immigrants were killed, those horses continued to produce top racing blood in Utah. Without registration papers, my father was not able to participate in the State Fair. He would make bets AFTER the fair that our horses were faster than state winners. The Prodigy of the Mountain Meadow Massacre, helped my dad win a lot of bets
This is an interesting story story and I thank you for sharing. In order to acquire these high price horses, your great whatever grandfather must have known Brigham Young.
Senator Mike Lee’s great grandfather was John D. Lee. Do you know if your ancestor knew him?
All those women and children being slaughtered but at least my ancestors made a killing
@@DanielEarth1 it was my dad who bought the Prodigy of those horses in 1950, the Bloodlines are strong. The horses are fastest in the state-still
@@DanielEarth1 my ancestors from Denmark were certainly under the Prophet Brigham Young
@@karinlarsen2608 What are their names, if I may Ask.
does anyone know where the scenes at the beginning are from?
Religion is pointless.
lol
Agreed
Gaytheist
You have a few fact wrong. And why are you saying the murders names, but never mention the names of the victims?! It was the Baker Fancher wagon train. Many of the children were returned to there families after the massacre.
If i was from Arkansas, I'd stay there. Just to be on the safe side.
Nice people these Mormons were huh ? Restitution should be given and if they can not or will not give it ...then someone needs to go and clean their clocks ...no sense in having these people breathing our good air ....Like # 9 ...Zulu
You realize the people who did this are dead right?
@@ReesieandLeeand today the church is rampant which sexual abuse. Just as it was historically
@@ReesieandLeeYou realize you STILL have lying leaders, right? The same who "wont apologize" because they dont have to. Right?
@@ReesieandLee But the dead have no legacy...survivors in limbo..fanatical ignorance without answer, the Momo church still omnipresent in Utah---no peace without justice.
It won't happen since the Utah War Peace Commission resulted in amnesty for the Mormons in exchange for them submitting to US government authority.
Not Cool !
The first hand account I’ve read said that it was both white men and natives working together. The natives weren’t blameless and neither were the Mormons. The difference is that now some people are claiming that native people had nothing to do with it and that simply isn’t true if the child’s testimony is to be believed.
Darn Injuns! Can't take their land and co-opt their warrior spirit without somehow finding fault with European faux-Christian dominion! Where's the justice?
It documented that some of mornoms dressed as natives. The child being so young seeing those outfits would've assumed they were native
Fanchers, my distant kin. A horrible thing to discover doing geneology.
It's commendable that the LDS church acknowledges this tragedy and has created a beautiful memorial.
So much about the LDS is commendable! There's superstition, polygamy and child rape, agricultural ignorance, violence. Heck yeah, beautiful memorials!
Sick.
This was an awful, awful thing that happened, and it cannot be excused. However, you can't really bleame the church itself for it. Yeah, those people were VERY bad. And yeah, Brigham Young definately should have done something about it. But to hold that over the heads of people in the modern time as a way to tell them their beliefs are wrong? Not okay. I've had people use this as an argument to tell me that I "know nothing of the lds church". IT WASN'T THE CHURCHES FAULT!!! It was the fault of the people who did it, who happened to be members. Do you know how many bad things Cathlics have done? Muslims? Jews? Literally any religion ever??? Being affiliated with a religion and doing things that go against the teachings of said religion shouldn't pin said things on said religion. My testimony is on Jesus Christ and the Book of Mormon, not the massacre.
better without music
I feel like Father's and husband's worried these men would take and marry their wives and daughters and possibly fueled some of their hatred of this group...but that's just my opinion 🤷
@@baileygregg6567 I grew up in an area where Joseph Smith was murdered in jail and to my knowledge they preserved the blood on the floor in the historical jail where it could still be viewed in recent years and possibly still is.Its a small tourist town called Nauvoo Illinois.I personally think they should have been allowed to pass through and keep moving.....
@@baileygregg6567 the people had money to pay for the supplies. Utah did not belong to the mormons but they claimed it all. These people did not know they needed a pass to travel thru Utah. I wonder if Brigham young really knew about this. The one man being accused of the slaughter while his church brothers turned their backs on him. Really good church members turning on one man and they all lied. One man could not have done that much killing by himself.
The usual suspects will blame religion. All religions. Before this, during this and today.
Gosh, dunno why...
I blame this cult, specifically.
This is a distortion of many of the facts. Read Mountain Meadow Massacre by Juanita Brooks, or Massacre at Mountain Meadows by Turley et al.
Your point? Certain granular, factual discrepancies? Actual substantial refutation of the fact that fanatics perpetrated mass murder? Please enlighten us.
No Indians were there!
They were Mormons dressed as Indians, not even ex Mormons- straight up Mormons killing each other
Freedom slaves
hahaha colonizers were upset people might take their land. LMAO real holy
Please cover the story of Jawaher Hajji #JusticeForJawaher
Thr firtst Nine - Eleven. Flippin' Mormon cult!
THE FACTS: It was a military operation of the Iron County Militia, a regularly constituted military division of the State of Deseret. The Mormons had left the US when they came west into Utah, unincorporated Mexican territory. They set up their own government, printed money and declared themselves independent of the federal government. With the end of the Mexican War in 1848, western lands were ceded to the US as part of that treaty. In effect, the US government followed the Mormons out to Utah. When the feds tried to impose federal authority in Utah, the State of Deseret didn't take too kindly to it. The officers that had been sent to "govern" Utah were sent packing back to Washington. The Mormons had had enough of the "constitutional" treatment afforded them in Missouri and Illinois that ended in the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother. They were in no mood to be governed by the same people who had driven and killed them. As a result of the wild tales of rebellion, President Buchanan dispatched fully 1/3 of the US military to Utah to "quash the Mormon rebellion" in 1857. Brigham Young declared martial law in the territory and the Mormons were preparing for a military assault on their community. This was the climate into which the Fancher wagon train rolled. The Mormons wouldn't trade with them because they were preparing for war. They were frustrated and threatened to go into San Bernardino and bring the troops up the southern flank of the Mormons while the army units attacked from the north. I'm no military genius but you can't have a two-front war. The wagon train was unfortunately in the middle of a conflict they couldn't control and lost their lives. As a military matter, it worked perfectly. None of those people made it to the military outpost at San Bernardino. Innocents die in war all the time. War is hell. Tragedy but understandable. The winners of war usually get to write the history and so they call this encounter a "massacre". If Washington had lost the Revolutionary War, he would have been hung as a traitor and his skirmishes would have been called "massacres"...see how it works?
Complete hogwash as usual from a hateful lunatic like you. But since you admitted John Lee was your "hero " for smashing little babies into rocks while laughing and singing there is no end to he psychopathy you exhibit Mormon. There are reasons why Ted Bundy was a Mormon accepted by your church when he murdered all those women.
Hey another fact your casually leaving out why did John Smith get killed oh yeah dude was trying to run off with other men's wives lots of Mormons want to forget to mention that
@@adams9935 So you approve of the murders because you think he was a womanizer? Nice. A little view into your putrid heart. BTW...it's Joseph Smith you cretinous dullard.
Your FACTS are BS. My replies to your lunacy follow your ignorant comments:
You - THE FACTS: It was a military operation of the Iron County Militia, a regularly constituted military division of the State of Deseret.
Me - It was NOT a regular military operation, but I will get to that later…and the State of Deseret did not exist, except in the minds of Mormons. It was the Utah Territory, lawfully and constitutionally ceded by treaty between the United States and Mexico.
You - The Mormons had left the US when they came west into Utah, unincorporated Mexican territory. They set up their own government, printed money and declared themselves independent of the federal government.
Me - All of that is perhaps true, but only up until the territory became part of the United States. Because the territory belonged to the United States, all persons in the territory were subject to the laws of the United States and to the United States Constitution.
You - With the end of the Mexican War in 1848, western lands were ceded to the US as part of that treaty. In effect, the US government followed the Mormons out to Utah. When the feds tried to impose federal authority in Utah, the State of Deseret didn't take too kindly to it.
Me - Again, the State of Deseret was not an entity that had any authority that superseded the authority of the United States. In fact, Brigham Young himself was a United States official, having ACCEPTED the governorship of the territory from President Millard Filmore immediately after the territory was incorporated. He took office within five months. His acceptance and his oath of office to “support the Constitution of the United States..” were his personal concession that Utah belonged TO THE UNITED STATES, not to Mormons or the LDS church.
You - The officers that had been sent to "govern" Utah were sent packing back to Washington.
Me - What “officers”? When?
You - The Mormons had had enough of the "constitutional" treatment afforded them in Missouri and Illinois that ended in the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother. They were in no mood to be governed by the same people who had driven and killed them.
Me - What is your indication of that? The Mormon’s left Ohio when Smith was charged with bank fraud. They weren’t chased out. In Missouri, they left after confrontations with the STATE militia…not a US military force. They left Illinois because of ongoing conflict with anti-Mormon citizens and the state government. NOT the federal government. Ironically, when they DID reach Utah in 1847, Brigham Young and the Twelve Apostles climbed the peak just north of the city and raised the American flag, calling it the "Ensign of Liberty". Sure doesn’t sound like they were particularly upset about the federal government at that time, displaying the US flag as they did.
You - As a result of the wild tales of rebellion, President Buchanan dispatched fully 1/3 of the US military to Utah to "quash the Mormon rebellion" in 1857.
Me - That’s not entirely accurate. These were not innocents caught in a crossfire of war. They were massacre victims. When Buchanan received reports of widespread and systematic obstruction of federal officials in Utah (most notably judges), President Buchanan decided in early 1857 to install a non-Mormon governor. He was well within his authority to remove a territorial governor for ANY reason. He appointed a replacement and sent him the territory accompanied by 2,500 soldiers. When Young received word, he called out his militia to ambush the federal force using delaying tactics. During the defense of Utah, now called the Utah War, Young held the U.S. Army at bay for a winter by taking their cattle and burning supply wagons. This was 100% in violation of his oath of office.
You - This was the climate into which the Fancher wagon train rolled.
Me - This is true, but the entire situation was created by Brigham young.
You - The wagon train was unfortunately in the middle of a conflict they couldn't control and lost their lives. As a military matter, it worked perfectly. None of those people made it to the military outpost at San Bernardino. Innocents die in war all the time. War is hell. Tragedy but understandable. The winners of war usually get to write the history and so they call this encounter a "massacre". If Washington had lost the Revolutionary War, he would have been hung as a traitor and his skirmishes would have been called "massacres"...see how it works?
Me - This is a bit distorted. The survivors of the initial attacks on the wagon train were convinced by John John D. Lee and three or four others, including Isaac Haight and John Higbee to lay down their arms as a sign of good will to the Indians that they did not intend harm to them. The women and children were led out first, followed by the men. Each individual was accompanied by a Mormon participant in the attacks on the wagon train. According to some reports, it was Higbee who gave the order to execute the members of the wagon train who had agreed to walk out of their defenses. Two years after the massacre, Army Captain James Henry Carleton went to the Mountain Meadows site and investigated the area, interviewing witnesses who would talk, and surveying the area of the massacre. He found that only some of the bodies had been buried - and only in shallow graves where wolves were able to dig them up. Carleton’s men searched the entire area and found the remains of 120 men and women.(determined by how many pairs of shoulder blades he collected). Most of the skulls had bullet holes in them. In interviews with two Paiute Indian chiefs (one named Jackson, and the other, Touche) who participated in the attack on the wagon train, he discovered three things. First, BOTH told him that they were presented with letters from Brigham Young that the wagon train members were to be killed. Touche identified the man who brought him the letter - Mormon Oliver B. Huntington an Indian interpreter then living in Salt Lake City. In fact, As the Fancher party had camped 70 miles north of Mountain Meadows, Brigham Young met in Salt Lake City with southern Indian chiefs to devise a strategy to stop overland emigration through southern Utah. In the meeting, according to an entry in the diary of Dimick Huntington, Young's brother-in-law, Young encouraged the Indians to seize "all the cattle" on the "south route" to California. Second, he also learned from the Indians that their tribe possessed no more than three firearms during the time of the attack, which is proof positive that the executions were carried out by Mormons, and not Indians. Captain Carleton discovered that the cattle, horses, clothing, weapons, wagons, cash and other items belonging to the wagon train members had been dispersed among Mormons in the area. And not to the families of the deceased. Had the Indians massacred the wagon party, as the Mormon hierarchy initially claimed, HEY would have collected all of the people’s possessions, but this clearly did not happen.
According to John D. Lee, Brigham Young’s scapegoat in the massacre, after he personally told young details of the massacre, Young told him, "I asked the Lord if it was all right for the deed to be done, to take away the vision of the deed from my mind, and the Lord did so, and I feel first rate. It is all right. The only fear I have is from traitors."
The us was already west, what do you think Oregon and California is dork. So full of crap.
Smithsonian magazine?? Ok. BYE
Prob alllll lies
It is unfortunate that there is so much inaccurate information about the Mountain Meadow Massacre.